Guild Wars 2

geist.3980:

the entire profession seems to be sliding towards support and away from any usefulness in direct combat.

atleast it is getting a proper role. So far this profession has been looking like a mish-mash of different roles. From tanker, to roamer, to raw DPS and with natures voice, support .

Wild.3847:

I wonder how it will interact with

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Altruism

could be interesting if the cooldown is short

I wouldn’t get your hopes up too high on that.

I’m almost certain Rune of Altruism is tied to the 6 key, not just to receiving a heal. I grabbed some Altruism Runes last week, and while I was playing with a Box o’ Fun I noticed that I was getting Might / Fury procs when I left the “Petrification” transformation state. Which is done by pressing the 6 key, but obviously isn’t a heal (unless for some reason the game treats that as a heal?).

Which means that you’ll get a proc for summoning the spirit, and possibly a proc for using the spirit’s activated ability, but NOT for every time the heal buff activates on its own.

It’ll still be kind of neat to be able to get 2 procs in the first 10 seconds (one for the summon, then one for the active 10 seconds later). But then you’ll have to wait another 25 seconds for the active ability to cooldown before you can get another.

By the way, Dulfy’s got info on the new heals up, so here’s the specifics of these skills.

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/05/gw2-new-healing-skills-for-next-patch/

Prysin.8542:

geist.3980:

the entire profession seems to be sliding towards support and away from any usefulness in direct combat.

atleast it is getting a proper role. So far this profession has been looking like a mish-mash of different roles. From tanker, to roamer, to raw DPS and with natures voice, support .

Every profession has a mix of roles… The problem with ranger is we never really had a unique way of doing any said role… Everyone can be a bunker, support, or DPS, rangers could really only bunker and could sorta DPS (granted have the potential for highest damage in the game while an ele is present), and support was just pretty much Mia, at least we are getting better support, and supposedly better non condi damage…

If Duffy is right, what do you think?

I am not sure I understand how this will work.
You have a 623 heal on a hit (70% with trait/35% without). This only applies to 5 targets same as a spirit. Got it.

Now can you get the heal every 6 seconds or every 10 seconds?

Then it would appear no matter what the distance YOU get healed for basically 4k base while ONLY allies within 240 get healed for basically 2k. Or is it that you too need to be within the range?

Thoughts?

Bombsaway.7198:

If Duffy is right, what do you think?

I am not sure I understand how this will work.
You have a 623 heal on a hit (70% with trait/35% without). This only applies to 5 targets same as a spirit. Got it.

Now can you get the heal every 6 seconds or every 10 seconds?

Then it would appear no matter what the distance YOU get healed for basically 4k base while ONLY allies within 240 get healed for basically 2k. Or is it that you too need to be within the range?

Thoughts?

The way that spirits work is that they apply a custom “buff” to you, which lasts for 6 seconds at a time (and is then reapplied after 6 seconds for another 6 seconds if you’re still in range). The “buff” is what enables you to proc the spirit’s effect. Watch the space where buffs are displayed on your character some time when you’re using spirits, and you’ll be able to see it pretty clearly.

It gives you some leeway with being in range of your spirits. Rather than needing to be in range at all times, you can just go back once the “buff” expires.

The effect cooldown is still 10 seconds. You can proc the heal once every 10 seconds.

As for the active ability… I believe it’ll probably heal you no matter what range you’re at. It doesn’t say anything about a range limit on your personal heal. Allies will have to be close to the spirit to get healed. The only question would be whether you can get double-healed if you’re in range of the spirit as well (whether you can get both your personal heal and the AoE heal, or only your personal heal).

Your pets don’t seem to get a guaranteed heal like you do, which is kind of a shame (unless its just not listed in the tooltip). Even Healing Spring gives your pet a burst heal when you cast it, even if your pet is not in the spring.

Elctro that was very helpful. Thank you.
I do hope you can get both the caster heal and one of the 5 ally heals. That would make the healing quite respectable indeed.

The biggest challenge will be keeping the spirit alive for your big heal. If you lose the spirit, 20 seconds when you were counting on the heal NOW could be a problem.

Why is it called an interval? (Look at the link) vs an effect cooldown? Never seen the term interval being used in GW2 and wiki didn’t have anything on it too which is why I was confused.

Bombsaway.7198:

Elctro that was very helpful. Thank you.
I do hope you can get both the caster heal and one of the 5 ally heals. That would make the healing quite respectable indeed.

The biggest challenge will be keeping the spirit alive for your big heal. If you lose the spirit, 20 seconds when you were counting on the heal NOW could be a problem.

Why is it called an interval? (Look at the link) vs an effect cooldown? Never seen the term interval being used in GW2 and wiki didn’t have anything on it too which is why I was confused.

But if you trait Nature’s Vengeance (moved to Grandmaster tier in upcoming patch) it means that on the spirits death you will get the heal.

@Thread;

Assuming that this leaked heal is real (I really wish it wasn’t but leaks normally are pretty accurate up until now), it didn’t accomplish opening up any build diversity.

If anything, it helps to further solidify the Spirit Build (petting zoo cough cough) as the Apex predator of PvP builds. Spirits Unbound was moved down in order to make spirits more available to hybrid builds, and then the skill team turns around and adds a skill that makes the prepatch trait layout even more desirable than post patch?

/facepalm

Once, just once, can we get a collaborative effort to get all the teams on the same page? Maybe read the forums and see how the ranger community has been requesting more available and active condition cleansing (easily one of the biggest things holding power builds big since they either need more defensive sustain or more damage) and more available roles to use the pet in (why is it just DPS? Can I make my pet more support oriented, or even condition oriented, since options are lacking all over?) since like last September.

I’m so excited for the PvP reward changes coming on December 10th. It’s just too bad the balance and skills dev decisions keep making me more and more depressed.

Somebody needs to make a PvP based Ranger timeline video starting with like, March, and show rangers every month with spirits out autoattacking, and then make some snide comments about balance and the metagame and esports. It just really, really needs to happen.

pho.9412:

doesn’t our new healing skill seem rather weak compare to other class’ heals?

Depends a lot on numbers we can’t see yet.

The cooldown on the water spirit’s active ability is going to make or break it I think.

There’s also a real questions of does the active trigger Rune set bonuses based on “use a healing skill” or does it only count when you initially summon the spirit?

As a ‘spirit’ skill we’re also looking at interactions with~

Nature Magic IV: Vigorous Spirits — Spirits have increased health and a greater chance to trigger their benefits.
Nature Magic VII: Spirits Unbound — Spirits can move and follow you. (yes, I know this one is being shuffled down a tier)
Nature Magic XI: Nature’s Vengeance — Activated skills of spirits are larger and trigger when the spirit is killed.

That’s not a lot of potential for variety, but its clear how to maximize it by loading up a single trait line to 30. And with an Elite spirit skill already in play you’ll be able to set up a full right hand bar of 5 spirit skills…

So many things make rangers a problem in PvP.
Point capping favors close combat.
The size of the maps doesn’t lend itself to 1200 and 1500 range.
There are too many obstacles and terrain features.
You wind up with a lot of mid range and close range builds.

I really think the best thing for pvp build diversity would be diversifying pvp maps.

Bombsaway.7198:

So many things make rangers a problem in PvP.
Point capping favors close combat.
The size of the maps doesn’t lend itself to 1200 and 1500 range.
There are too many obstacles and terrain features.
You wind up with a lot of mid range and close range builds.

I really think the best thing for pvp build diversity would be diversifying pvp maps.

Longbow is fine in sPvP, that stealth opens up A LOT of doors for combos and getting things off that normally would be hard to do, not to mention the knock back on LB helps ensure point dominance.

The #1 thing that is completely slaughtering ranger build diversity is the complete lack of condi removal our prof has, you either 1) take 30 in WS and go condi because of how many traits you just lost, or 2) take healing spring and pray to god you don’t go up against a really heavy condi spam build, or I guess 3) you die horribly to anything using conditions.

Ugh. Spirits are either terribad or outright boring in PvE. Passive DPS increase? Of course people want it, but it’s incredibly lame to cast and forget it compared to another class which has more active or strategic utilities. Sometimes I wish sPvP didn’t exist at all because it’s the crutch that stops them from reworking spirits all together. They might be powerful in sPvP but they are a joke in WvW and PvE.

This is probably the least interesting heal simply because it’s a spirit and spirits as a mechanic need a robust redesign.

Shiren.9532:

Ugh. Spirits are either terribad or outright boring in PvE. Passive DPS increase? Of course people want it, but it’s incredibly lame to cast and forget it compared to another class which has more active or strategic utilities. Sometimes I wish sPvP didn’t exist at all because it’s the crutch that stops them from reworking spirits all together. They might be powerful in sPvP but they are a joke in WvW and PvE.

This is probably the least interesting heal simply because it’s a spirit and spirits as a mechanic need a robust redesign.

I can’t agree more with this… Spirits are really strong, but they’re so boring and shallow it’s just not even worth it to use em imo because it’s just not fun… it’s like a more passive, more shallow AoE version of signets…

well this just gave me some nasty idea… how about we spec full nature magic with regeneration on shout spirit heal etc have healing spirit as elite water spirit as heal then full 30 in beast mastery for pet regeneration equip the signet of the wilderness along with water spirit fire spirit and a shortbow? build would go as a full condition user coupled with might on swap and big healing.
10 (increase pet condition duration)
0
0
30 (spirit)
30 (pet might on swap etc and cat cond damage)
As silly as it sounds it looks like a way to have good regeneration tank over here. but eh i might also be totaly wrong

kyubi.3620:

well this just gave me some nasty idea… how about we spec full nature magic with regeneration on shout spirit heal etc have healing spirit as elite water spirit as heal then full 30 in beast mastery for pet regeneration equip the signet of the wilderness along with water spirit fire spirit and a shortbow? build would go as a full condition user coupled with might on swap and big healing.
10 (increase pet condition duration)
0
0
30 (spirit)
30 (pet might on swap etc and cat cond damage)
As silly as it sounds it looks like a way to have good regeneration tank over here. but eh i might also be totaly wrong

no condi removals, gg.

pho.9412:

doesn’t our new healing skill seem rather weak compare to other class’ heals?

Actually our new healing skill (if true) are better than other classes (ele, thief)

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/05/gw2-new-healing-skills-for-next-patch/

Thief and Eles healing skill depend on hit while ours is also the same, it is better because of the second effect of the spirit Aqua Surge. By how I understand it even if you’re not beside your spirit you still get the initial self heal of 3,982 plus the spirit heal of 2,047 if you are within range of the spirit, so in total the healing if you are within spirit activation is 6029. Again the healing per proc of the spirit is not counted here, I think so far the numbers are good compare to two classes I mentioned above.

And if my speculations are right, Aqua Surge’s activate could also heal allies, pets, and spirit if within the activation range of 240, this is the same as Healing Spring but like what people are saying in here the downside is there is no condition removal but the healing is more mobile than Healing Spring if traited.

We don’t know if the ranger will get the benefit of BOTH the self heal and the ally heal components of the active.

I’m still scratching my head to see how this will be such a big improvement over the water field + regen + condition removal + initial heal of healing spring.

Both are dependent on being in a small radius range, while the spirit is able to be insta killed and doesn’t provide any condition cleansing at all.

I really want ANet to sit down and think like a player would. What’s the last thing we want more of as a playerbase in general? AI and spirits.

But, +1 for more skill being attached to AI and screen clutter.

Calculations based on http://dulfy.net/2013/12/05/gw2-new-healing-skills-for-next-patch/ and the wiki (hope they use the same, base, stats…)

Water Spirit: 280 hps for the ranger, 130 hps for allies/pet (without adept trait), split between 240 range (80 hps) and 1000 range (50 hps)

Healing Spring: 230 hps for ranger/pet, 70 hps for allies at 240 range, condition removal

Troll Unguent: 330 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

Heal as One: 310 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

To me Water Spirit looks worth it if you can stay near the spirit (I guess that means has spirits unbound, I haven’t tried dual bows with spirits) and you’ve got an ally around. It’s hard to get condition removal in other ways than healing spring though-

Shiren.9532:

This is probably the least interesting heal simply because it’s a spirit and spirits as a mechanic need a robust redesign.

Definitely. We need a whole re-evaluation of this whole design. Something most aren’t willing to listen to, or able to accomplish.

Bombsaway.7198:

We don’t know if the ranger will get the benefit of BOTH the self heal and the ally heal components of the active.

again these are just my speculations IF that is how it works, cause by reading the description thats how I understood it. IF it is… then simply the healing from this skill would make it better than Healing Spring in terms of burst healing rather than waiting for Healing Spring’s regeneration effect. Again these are just speculations if both self heal and ally heal affects the Ranger and I am talking about the burst heal that it can provide in 2.5 seconds. (1.5 sec to activate spirit; 1 second for Aqua Surge = 6029 heal)

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Calculations based on http://dulfy.net/2013/12/05/gw2-new-healing-skills-for-next-patch/ and the wiki (hope they use the same, base, stats…)

Water Spirit: 280 hps for the ranger, 130 hps for allies/pet (without adept trait), split between 240 range (80 hps) and 1000 range (50 hps)

Healing Spring: 230 hps for ranger/pet, 70 hps for allies at 240 range, condition removal

Troll Unguent: 330 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

Heal as One: 310 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

To me Water Spirit looks worth it if you can stay near the spirit (I guess that means has spirits unbound, I haven’t tried dual bows with spirits) and you’ve got an ally around. It’s hard to get condition removal in other ways than healing spring though-

Exactly, finally someone who can see the math. Water Spirit in terms of heal would make it worth while than other healing skills we have in terms of mobility(if traited) burst heal and dps on proc per attack. Again the downside is there is no condition removal and the fact that the spirit could die.

AEFA.9035:

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Calculations based on http://dulfy.net/2013/12/05/gw2-new-healing-skills-for-next-patch/ and the wiki (hope they use the same, base, stats…)

Water Spirit: 280 hps for the ranger, 130 hps for allies/pet (without adept trait), split between 240 range (80 hps) and 1000 range (50 hps)

Healing Spring: 230 hps for ranger/pet, 70 hps for allies at 240 range, condition removal

Troll Unguent: 330 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

Heal as One: 310 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

To me Water Spirit looks worth it if you can stay near the spirit (I guess that means has spirits unbound, I haven’t tried dual bows with spirits) and you’ve got an ally around. It’s hard to get condition removal in other ways than healing spring though-

Exactly, finally someone who can see the math. Water Spirit in terms of heal would make it worth while than other healing skills we have in terms of mobility(if traited) burst heal and dps on proc per attack. Again the downside is there is no condition removal and the fact that the spirit could die.

I understand completely, though you have to admit that people might be less than thrilled for a skill that has the ability to lose all healing being one shot within seconds of it coming out.

It’s all based on what you think you can accomplish, but I don’t really want another immobile device strapped onto my ranger. It seems like the best weapons and spirits/AI all evolve around this philosophy that all combat happens in a small circle around the ranger, no focus on movement at all.

If they want more support for AI pushes, they need to make them more adaptable without having to heavily invest in them.

I thought they were going to give love to power rangers with upcoming changes. Where the hell did that sentiment go?

Miflett.3472:

AEFA.9035:

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Calculations based on http://dulfy.net/2013/12/05/gw2-new-healing-skills-for-next-patch/ and the wiki (hope they use the same, base, stats…)

Water Spirit: 280 hps for the ranger, 130 hps for allies/pet (without adept trait), split between 240 range (80 hps) and 1000 range (50 hps)

Healing Spring: 230 hps for ranger/pet, 70 hps for allies at 240 range, condition removal

Troll Unguent: 330 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

Heal as One: 310 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

To me Water Spirit looks worth it if you can stay near the spirit (I guess that means has spirits unbound, I haven’t tried dual bows with spirits) and you’ve got an ally around. It’s hard to get condition removal in other ways than healing spring though-

Exactly, finally someone who can see the math. Water Spirit in terms of heal would make it worth while than other healing skills we have in terms of mobility(if traited) burst heal and dps on proc per attack. Again the downside is there is no condition removal and the fact that the spirit could die.

I understand completely, though you have to admit that people might be less than thrilled for a skill that has the ability to lose all healing being one shot within seconds of it coming out.

It’s all based on what you think you can accomplish, but I don’t really want another immobile device strapped onto my ranger. It seems like the best weapons and spirits/AI all evolve around this philosophy that all combat happens in a small circle around the ranger, no focus on movement at all.

If they want more support for AI pushes, they need to make them more adaptable without having to heavily invest in them.

I thought they were going to give love to power rangers with upcoming changes. Where the hell did that sentiment go?

We can all agree that the Dev’s vision of power Ranger is the class using Longbow which they are buffing in the upcoming patch. That’s pretty much it.

AEFA.9035:

Miflett.3472:

AEFA.9035:

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Calculations based on http://dulfy.net/2013/12/05/gw2-new-healing-skills-for-next-patch/ and the wiki (hope they use the same, base, stats…)

Water Spirit: 280 hps for the ranger, 130 hps for allies/pet (without adept trait), split between 240 range (80 hps) and 1000 range (50 hps)

Healing Spring: 230 hps for ranger/pet, 70 hps for allies at 240 range, condition removal

Troll Unguent: 330 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

Heal as One: 310 hps for ranger/pet, none for allies

To me Water Spirit looks worth it if you can stay near the spirit (I guess that means has spirits unbound, I haven’t tried dual bows with spirits) and you’ve got an ally around. It’s hard to get condition removal in other ways than healing spring though-

Exactly, finally someone who can see the math. Water Spirit in terms of heal would make it worth while than other healing skills we have in terms of mobility(if traited) burst heal and dps on proc per attack. Again the downside is there is no condition removal and the fact that the spirit could die.

snip

We can all agree that the Dev’s vision of power Ranger is the class using Longbow which they are buffing in the upcoming patch. That’s pretty much it.

It’s not all about potency though. It’s about defining a respectable method of play through balance and foresight.

But that’s an argument for another thread, so I’ll leave it be.

1. adding a heal that only interacts with the current meta build does not help build diversity.

2. adding another piece of AI clutter is indicative of not listening to your players.

faeral.7120:

1. adding a heal that only interacts with the current meta build does not help build diversity.

2. adding another piece of AI clutter is indicative of not listening to your players.

Ive been screaming these things since i learned about this new skill….Noone cares

The fact that Heal As One hasn’t been buffed is ridiculous. It’s one of the most bland heals in the game. It should at least do SOMETHING. Maybe convert two conditions into boons? Maybe cause our next x attacks or for next x seconds you steal health when attacking, similar to the GW1 variant.

It just needs a buff; like a lot of other things.

http://imgur.com/a/XJLiX

Heal is looking much better than originally thought, though I’m very concerned with things like the necro heal. I’m also in agreement with the above… that this whole patch, including this heal, is just an enormous push to drive us all into spirit builds. Done absolutely nothing to help with any other build.

Atherakhia.4086:

http://imgur.com/a/XJLiX

Heal is looking much better than originally thought, though I’m very concerned with things like the necro heal. I’m also in agreement with the above… that this whole patch, including this heal, is just an enormous push to drive us all into spirit builds. Done absolutely nothing to help with any other build.

internal cooldown of 10 seconds? lol

Joined Heal As One in “Never Used Skill Limbo” before it ever went live…

This assumes “interval” means internal cool down but it seems likely.

faeral.7120:

1. adding a heal that only interacts with the current meta build does not help build diversity.

2. adding another piece of AI clutter is indicative of not listening to your players.

Nothing about the Dec 10th patch shows they listen or are interested in adding alternatives to the meta for Rangers.

Substance E.4852:

faeral.7120:

1. adding a heal that only interacts with the current meta build does not help build diversity.

2. adding another piece of AI clutter is indicative of not listening to your players.

Nothing about the Dec 10th patch shows they listen or are interested in adding alternatives to the meta for Rangers.

True. I think we should just all reroll another character cause there’s nothing right about Rangers in game guys.

The other big problem with this skill is the second it proves to be advantageous for spirit builds, people will start to cry on the forums and anet will nerf bat it like they are going to do with storm and sun on the 10th.

If this ends up being a good skill I really can’t see it staying that way for very long.

so glad i shelved my ranger.

/goes back to facerolling on guardian, and planning an offensive meditation build with the amazing new healing skill

mistsim.2748:

so glad i shelved my ranger.

/goes back to facerolling on guardian, and planning an offensive meditation build with the amazing new healing skill

lol it’s like they tried really hard with the Heavies and by the time they got to the ranger it’s all “So what do rangers do again? People are always talking about spirits, lets just make it one of those. That’ll work.”

Just another reminder that the devs don’t play this class at all. If they did, they’d know that we need LESS passive AI controlled things…I personally would have given us a leech trap that when activated immediately leeches health from all enemies in the field for about 6 seconds (pulsing 3 times), and transfers it to us and up to 4 allies nearby (not including pet). It would heal us and allies nearby for about as much as Heal as One as the base, but adds the life leeched to it, and removes a condition from us and each ally for each enemy hit with it per pulse…probably on a 40 second cooldown. I’d find that far more useful.

In terms of a burst heal, our new one looks really, really bad. You have to cast it (1.5s) then activate it (1s) before you get the burst off and wait (~2s) and be within range of the spirit for the follow up heal.

Then again, I would actually prefer the healing spring over this for groups support for the quick pulsing condition removal on 5 allies + regeneration alone (PvP related) and I don’t see how this will work very well in PvE where all the (important) enemies still insta-gib the spirits. In fact, you might even miss the window to cast the active if it dies quick enough.

yep, healing spring will remain king of all ranger heals. heal as one will remain as the heal we have on our bar during the lvl 1 PvE encounter.

should have made a Survival heal for Power specs imo.

HS is beastly, always will be. initial heal + regen + blast finish + 2 leap finishers + condi cleanse.

imo it’s depressing how theyre holding onto this horrible spirit mechanic.

After a lot of spamming in twitch chat..JPeters was writing there too..I asked: “Why Rangers should take 20 traits to make their healing skill effective?”

JPeters answer was: “Normal Spirits rule” or something like this..

Its true that the skills balance team believes that there is a man in this world who play spirits without traiting em……………

/facepalm

Guys leave it as it is..They just dont give a kitten..They have no idea what they are doing.In the end is a job and they are really bad at it, they took a game with great potentials and they ruining it little by little..
Am i wrong?Time will tell only

I have one big problem with this skill. The active portion of the spirit generally doesn’t use our stats.

They do such an awesome job with some profs. Sometimes I think it’s some intern working on the ranger. And JP just likes to troll a little too much.

Healing Spring, is amazing when paired with a thief with a Shortbow. Gather the party up, put down healing spring, the SB thief spams #2 on his own position for the blast finisher, WATCH DAT HEALING!

Krugan.7901:

I have one big problem with this skill. The active portion of the spirit generally doesn’t use our stats.

That’s something positive in a way actually. Water Spirit will already depend a lot on Nature Magic for traits (like almost as much as Storm Spirit does, as they both have stronger actives than passives), so it’s good if it doesn’t rely on the healing Power portion of the line as well.

Just watched the video of them demonstrating the new heals… Couldnt have looked more underwhelming. If you want to heal you have a 1.5s casttime to summon the spirit, and 1s cast time to use the active, and then the AoE part of the active doesnt actually activate till 1.5s after that.

So if I need to heal thats a 4s delay with 2 seperate interupt intervals for my opponent, all for a relatively underwhelming heal.

I’d rather has HS for group support… a few blasts and the healing is better, plus the regen and condition removal and no need for traits.

Yep. Bad design and even worse internal testing. This isn’t the first time they’ve released entirely broken stuff and it won’t be the last. Unless they give us a proper ptr.

For those of you thinking this spirit has no burst, you are wrong. You are thinking about using this heal like other heals versus like a spirit. On the other hand, this heal works when you can set the spirit early in a fight and have your “oh kitten I need a heal” moment later. If you need your “oh kitten” heal without setting up, you are in trouble.

Most spirit rangers will keep the pet up almost all the time (those who trait unbounded) or will enter a fight by laying down all the spirits first. When you see the enemy you start getting the spirits ready.

Let me explain.

Provided you have laid down the spirit, the burst is pretty quick for the ranger and reasonable for the rest of the group.

Let me explain. The active ability has 2 heals.
1. The self heal for base 3800ish is extremely quick. 1 sec it seems.
2. The group heal of 2k (which can also heal the ranger and pet) is a separate animation which takes another second.
You activate the effect and both go off 1 after the other.

Remember, you still get the benefits of the passive as you activate the big heal.

The regen is more or less going to be 4050 over 60 seconds it just depends on how quickly you get it to retrigger after the 10 second icd. Totally passive and you really don’t have to worry about staying in a field etc. It is like a group signet of the wild. So I suspect that high heal rangers will get this to about 140/second effective healing.

That is pretty solid considering you still have the big heal which is about 75% of the initial heal value of HS and 80% of the same for the group regen. The DIFFERENCE is no one has to stay in the water field outside the activation. HS pulses so you need to stay in it longer. If you combo heals out of the water field, unquestionably HS does more healing.

WS is better when a group is spread out. You get regen even if pretty far away from the spirit. Allies can run to the spirit for a heal burst or run in with the spirit to give a heal burst versus having to sit in the spring for pulses.

So the ranger gets healed for 6k base roughly. Allies 2k. This can occur once every 25 seconds. The spirit lasts 60 seconds. So what a good ranger tends to do is lay it down, apply the heal upon the group taking initial pressure (e.g. “fill the tank”) and then just before it dies.

In the 45-60 second range of a fight (when most group fights get really hairy) you can have a huge burst of healing with nature’s vengeance.

Assume you first activated at second 20. At second kitten you can again activate the heal. 5-15 seconds later (at second 60) the spirit dies and you get another heal.

So within 15 seconds or so you can heal allies 4k and yourself 8k base.

It is only if you then have to cast another spirit while taking pressure that your burst is lost. You never ever ever want to play this heal as:

1. Cast
2. Immediately Heal.

It should always be.
1. Cast
2. Get regen only for a bit
3. Heal
4. Get one more heal in before spirit dies

You are not removing conditions so this spirit probably will be more of a back line type play.

Miflett.3472:

AEFA.9035:

Exactly, finally someone who can see the math. Water Spirit in terms of heal would make it worth while than other healing skills we have in terms of mobility(if traited) burst heal and dps on proc per attack. Again the downside is there is no condition removal and the fact that the spirit could die.

I understand completely, though you have to admit that people might be less than thrilled for a skill that has the ability to lose all healing being one shot within seconds of it coming out.

Actually, the worst case scenario is you’ve used the heal (spirit active) and are waiting for it to come off cooldown (25 sec). Just before it does, the spirit is killed, and you have to wait the 20 sec spirit cooldown before you can resummon it (1.5 sec). Then you have to wait 1 sec before you can active it because of the recent “bugfix.”

So worst case, you’ll have to go just shy of 47.5 sec without a heal. Toss an interrupt in there and it could go over a minute (I’m not sure how long an interrupt on a spirit delays its active becoming available again).

In fact, I think that’s what’s going to kill the viability of this heal in PvP. The other heal cooldowns are under your full control. i.e. You only get the full cooldown after you’ve used the skill to heal yourself (interrupts give a 5 sec cooldown).

This one’s cooldown can also be controlled by someone attacking you. If someone is attacking your ranger, he can damage you a bit but not enough to scare you into healing. Then he kills the spirit. He now has a guaranteed 22.5 sec during which you are unable to heal.

Outside AE attacking my spirit, I would just assume an enemy attack my spirit and not me. That is an attack I am not eating and is a form of heal itself.

There is definitely a risk to the spirit.

I would assume most will only use this skill with vigorous spirits and that makes them about 8k of HP and run a couple of spirits (so tracking the healing spirit takes some skill) so casual damage won’t do it.

Anytime they want to take their eye off killing me, please do. Plus, if the enemy did start going after your water spirit in melee you have other spirit actives to act as cc.

Still, I acknowledge that it could get ugly. I just don’t think it will regularly. Even in zergs, my spirits rarely die.

Plus if you kill it, there is a trait to have it automatically heal (though you lose the 4k

Well, the biggest advantage the Water Spirit is going to have is the ability to burst heal your other spirits (or teammates).

Earlier in the thread, I only evaluated it for personal use, in which case it loses to every other heal we have available.

BUT, let’s assume I’m talking PvP arenas, in a big team fight, being able to give your teammates a decent chunk of health at a given moment, every 10 seconds with the passive, and a decent enough AoE heal (active heals better than the thieves Venom heal I believe) has the potential to turn the tide of a team fight.

That being said, there is a lot can go wrong, and it’s still to early to tell whether or not just taking HS and making a Nature’s Voice hybrid Spirit build will be better team utility (doesn’t sacrifice the value of HS as a self heal, while providing all teammates perma regen with should be better healing over time than Water Spirit unless the spirit scales really well with a Settler’s Amulet).

The biggest usage factor for it will be how well it scales with healing power. If building for a typical amount of healing power (around 600-900) has a 1:1 scaling ratio, their could definitely be some “shaman” or “druid” stylized builds that see play.

Particularly, rangers are starting to look like a decently offensive class with access to Ritualist like support from Guild Wars 1.

Still a niche role though, that doesn’t translate in this game well to larger engagements (aka WvW). Like, half of this games classes don’t typically translate well to large scale engagements though (Warrior, Guardian, Necro, Ele all do, but Thief, Ranger, Mesmer, and Engi either don’t have their meta builds like Shatter/PU/Backstab/BombNades/Spirits for big fights, or are completely outclassed, like Necro > Engi, etc).

Seriously that healing spirit hooooooo wow… 6sec for a interval of 10 sec.

when I seen the guy reading the skill I seen in his face “that skill is lame…”.

And I admit I have to spec in spirit to get advantage on it, other class not.

……………………… why not a skill bassed on the pet activity like the necro or the mesmer.

All I see is the only build the ranger can play in sinergy in a group is the spirit ranger…