Guild Wars 2

Daesyn.4781:

LittleLepton.8915:

Daesyn.4781:

I actually laughed a little at this entire thread. I don’t play a ranger, but do you people not see the problem with the fact that Rangers have to use a very specific weapon set and pet combo just to do a “decent” (which, apparently, is still pretty laughable compared to most other classes) amount of damage? AFAIK, no other class gets kittened this hard.

Necro. In pve anyway

When it comes to weapon choices for a decent amount of DPS (for their class, not compared to other classes) they have a better range of availability in PvE. Yes, they have an overall DPS problem, but it’s pretty balanced out regardless of weapon choice (few exceptions).

From what I’ve seen Ranger damage pretty much sucks unless you use sword+feline.

But what’s nice with ranger sword is you have multiple offhand options. That is something that is not easy to find in most classes. To have 3 decent offhand choices? That’s nuts. And I like it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

You know what mentality is a disease? One that doesn’t get having a run last 10 minutes longer can actually be too much for a player like myself, with a family, house, job, etc. so stop telling me that that time doesn’t matter, because it matters to me, and other people who don’t have all the time in the world.

Also, it isn’t usually 10 minutes. If I run with an optimized group versus a free for all, on average, it’s about an hour longer.

Stop telling me false information. Stop spreading the real disease.

10 minutes is not the end of the world though. I’m married, have a family, have a full time career, a home to take care of, and pets. I know the value of time. I only get to play an hour or two a night, if I am lucky. However, I also know the value of not stressing out over every little thing and taking the time to enjoy what I’m doing.

The ‘must have it now’ ‘must do it as fast as possible’ views are the disease, and not just in the game. Look at what it doing to the world around us, where we ‘must’ cram everything we possibly can into the shortest amount of time. Heart attacks happening from stress at younger and younger ages. Fast food becoming more and more prevalent in the typical diet, instead of actual healthy home cooked meals. The list goes on, but you should get my point.

If your group is that bad that it is taking that much longer, then no amount of optimization is going to help those people. At which point, you’re better off just finding other people to play with.

However, people are forced to mitigate that risk by just auto assuming all rangers are bad and will be a detriment to the group because 90% of them prefer to play, not just sub optimally! but so sub optimal that they become a hazard to have in a group.

I got kicked in dungeons a couple of times because I used to play engineer as main. Now I only ever use warrior, guardian or mesmer and don’t get any trouble anymore. It’s discrimination, but the fault is not with the players, but with the game design.

Ranger was broken the moment the class was anchored down with a companion pet AI that you cannot play without.
If rangers had stayed the same as they were in GW1 ( You could choose to run WITH or WITHOUT a pet and still be as effective) it would have been my second class to make and level up.
As it is now I’m not touching it and never will.
Not going to play a class where my effectiveness is determined by a poorly designed AI NPC that i’m forced to use.

mahariel.4981:

I actually laughed a little at this entire thread. I don’t play a ranger, but do you people not see the problem with the fact that Rangers have to use a very specific weapon set and pet combo just to do a “decent” (which, apparently, is still pretty laughable compared to most other classes) amount of damage? AFAIK, no other class gets kittened this hard.

Is it also a problem that warriors are required to run at least a mainhand axe to do decent damage? Of course not, stop trying to make out rangers are the only class who are expected to be using certain weapons.

Warriors can do a decent amount of damage with almost any melee-range weapon, provided they build correctly. They don’t have to use an axe. Yes it’s optimal, but it is not the only choice they have. When it comes to DPS, there is a huge gap between sword+feline and any other weapon+pet combo you can think of.

PS. What crawled up your kitten and died? You seem to be in an extremely kitteny mood, based on your posts in this thread alone. Step back, take a breather, and try not to be such a bloody kitten.

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

I would posit that encouraging a newbie to waste gold and time on gear and strategies that are not efficient or as good (I’m assuming that he does not want to spend hours in a single dungeon) is a terrible thing and you should get in trouble for griefing.

This implies that all people play for the same reasons you do… to do the content in the fastest, more efficient means possible. However, it’s downright foolish to assume such. Some people play simply to play, and therefore have just as much right to play how they please as you do. So what if it’s not the most efficient, or provides the most DPS. If the group as a whole is enjoying itself (after all, this is supposed to be a game about the ‘journey’ not the ‘destination’ as I keep being told), then what is the issue?

He’s asking for people to accept rangers into their groups.

But most people automatically assume the ranger is terrible without giving them a chance. That’s the issue here, and he’s simply pointing out that while yes some do suck, not all do and not all should be automatically rejected based on the failings of others.

Because the majority of people do not want to spend more time than they need to in a dungeon (sure you can say that not everyone wants to play that way, but the majority DO)

Ah yes… the whole ‘must get the cookie noooooooooow’ mentality that has infected so many. Gods forbid you take 5 or even 10 more minutes. You might miss a shiny you could have gotten because you had time for ‘just 1 more run.’ Such mentality is a disease.

You know what mentality is a disease? One that doesn’t get having a run last 10 minutes longer can actually be too much for a player like myself, with a family, house, job, etc. so stop telling me that that time doesn’t matter, because it matters to me, and other people who don’t have all the time in the world.

Also, it isn’t usually 10 minutes. If I run with an optimized group versus a free for all, on average, it’s about an hour longer.

Stop telling me false information. Stop spreading the real disease.

It is NOT an hour, that’s pure bullkitten, Stop Spreading false information, Stop Spreading the disease that is elitism, it doesn’t get you anywhere except hated by most people.

Azzer.8137:

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

I would posit that encouraging a newbie to waste gold and time on gear and strategies that are not efficient or as good (I’m assuming that he does not want to spend hours in a single dungeon) is a terrible thing and you should get in trouble for griefing.

This implies that all people play for the same reasons you do… to do the content in the fastest, more efficient means possible. However, it’s downright foolish to assume such. Some people play simply to play, and therefore have just as much right to play how they please as you do. So what if it’s not the most efficient, or provides the most DPS. If the group as a whole is enjoying itself (after all, this is supposed to be a game about the ‘journey’ not the ‘destination’ as I keep being told), then what is the issue?

He’s asking for people to accept rangers into their groups.

But most people automatically assume the ranger is terrible without giving them a chance. That’s the issue here, and he’s simply pointing out that while yes some do suck, not all do and not all should be automatically rejected based on the failings of others.

Because the majority of people do not want to spend more time than they need to in a dungeon (sure you can say that not everyone wants to play that way, but the majority DO)

Ah yes… the whole ‘must get the cookie noooooooooow’ mentality that has infected so many. Gods forbid you take 5 or even 10 more minutes. You might miss a shiny you could have gotten because you had time for ‘just 1 more run.’ Such mentality is a disease.

You know what mentality is a disease? One that doesn’t get having a run last 10 minutes longer can actually be too much for a player like myself, with a family, house, job, etc. so stop telling me that that time doesn’t matter, because it matters to me, and other people who don’t have all the time in the world.

Also, it isn’t usually 10 minutes. If I run with an optimized group versus a free for all, on average, it’s about an hour longer.

Stop telling me false information. Stop spreading the real disease.

It is NOT an hour, that’s pure bullkitten, Stop Spreading false information, Stop Spreading the disease that is elitism, it doesn’t get you anywhere except hated by most people.

I can assure you that a high level fractal will actually take an hour or more longer with a sub optimized group. Don’t be so dramatic.

Edit: also everyone loves me wherever I go <3

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

I would posit that encouraging a newbie to waste gold and time on gear and strategies that are not efficient or as good (I’m assuming that he does not want to spend hours in a single dungeon) is a terrible thing and you should get in trouble for griefing.

This implies that all people play for the same reasons you do… to do the content in the fastest, more efficient means possible. However, it’s downright foolish to assume such. Some people play simply to play, and therefore have just as much right to play how they please as you do. So what if it’s not the most efficient, or provides the most DPS. If the group as a whole is enjoying itself (after all, this is supposed to be a game about the ‘journey’ not the ‘destination’ as I keep being told), then what is the issue?

He’s asking for people to accept rangers into their groups.

But most people automatically assume the ranger is terrible without giving them a chance. That’s the issue here, and he’s simply pointing out that while yes some do suck, not all do and not all should be automatically rejected based on the failings of others.

Because the majority of people do not want to spend more time than they need to in a dungeon (sure you can say that not everyone wants to play that way, but the majority DO)

Ah yes… the whole ‘must get the cookie noooooooooow’ mentality that has infected so many. Gods forbid you take 5 or even 10 more minutes. You might miss a shiny you could have gotten because you had time for ‘just 1 more run.’ Such mentality is a disease.

You know what mentality is a disease? One that doesn’t get having a run last 10 minutes longer can actually be too much for a player like myself, with a family, house, job, etc. so stop telling me that that time doesn’t matter, because it matters to me, and other people who don’t have all the time in the world.

Also, it isn’t usually 10 minutes. If I run with an optimized group versus a free for all, on average, it’s about an hour longer.

Stop telling me false information. Stop spreading the real disease.

Elitism is the disease that is at the source of the OP’s problem, and you reek of it. Half your posts are making excuses for the snobbish attitude others have taken towards people who don’t play exactly as you or others think they should, and when things started to go against you, you suddenly are all about family and responsibility.

Taking an hour longer is an issue, but your attitude towards people who don’t play exactly as you think they should is quite obvious. Do GW2 a favor and when you start a dungeon party where you are so lowered that you have to dredge the bottom of the barrel of the rest of us players with the LFG tool, be sure to tag it “elite” so people know to avoid you since they are so inferior to your god like gamer status.

mahariel.4981:

Sirendor.1394:

I got kicked in dungeons a couple of times because I used to play engineer as main. Now I only ever use warrior, guardian or mesmer and don’t get any trouble anymore. It’s discrimination, but the fault is not with the players, but with the game design.

The fault is entirely with the players. If rangers were traiting and gearing properly right off the bat, there would be no stigma attached to them. Again, the same problem exists with flamethrower engis.

Traiting properly?, you mean so they don’t die or so they do max damage?, dead equals 0 DPS. I’ve seen more “heal” guardians or warrior and eles and so on die so easily compared to people that actually know what they are doing, personally yeah i run full zerker on my Death Shroud necro but i can survive far better than those “elitist” that i have to res every boss almost. Stop being elitist kittens.

A year into it, I finally deleted my Ranger and I don’t miss him at all. Great class for learning the game, but really lacking in the endgame.

I think it would have been much better if the pets worked either

a) only as a “F1” skill and did not otherwise attack (or F1, f2, f3… ) (and therefore attacks were instantaneous) or
b) served as the #4 and #5 skill of each weapon (so no offhand for the ranger, the pet is the off hand).

Neural.1824:

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

I would posit that encouraging a newbie to waste gold and time on gear and strategies that are not efficient or as good (I’m assuming that he does not want to spend hours in a single dungeon) is a terrible thing and you should get in trouble for griefing.

This implies that all people play for the same reasons you do… to do the content in the fastest, more efficient means possible. However, it’s downright foolish to assume such. Some people play simply to play, and therefore have just as much right to play how they please as you do. So what if it’s not the most efficient, or provides the most DPS. If the group as a whole is enjoying itself (after all, this is supposed to be a game about the ‘journey’ not the ‘destination’ as I keep being told), then what is the issue?

He’s asking for people to accept rangers into their groups.

But most people automatically assume the ranger is terrible without giving them a chance. That’s the issue here, and he’s simply pointing out that while yes some do suck, not all do and not all should be automatically rejected based on the failings of others.

Because the majority of people do not want to spend more time than they need to in a dungeon (sure you can say that not everyone wants to play that way, but the majority DO)

Ah yes… the whole ‘must get the cookie noooooooooow’ mentality that has infected so many. Gods forbid you take 5 or even 10 more minutes. You might miss a shiny you could have gotten because you had time for ‘just 1 more run.’ Such mentality is a disease.

You know what mentality is a disease? One that doesn’t get having a run last 10 minutes longer can actually be too much for a player like myself, with a family, house, job, etc. so stop telling me that that time doesn’t matter, because it matters to me, and other people who don’t have all the time in the world.

Also, it isn’t usually 10 minutes. If I run with an optimized group versus a free for all, on average, it’s about an hour longer.

Stop telling me false information. Stop spreading the real disease.

Elitism is the disease that is at the source of the OP’s problem, and you reek of it. Half your posts are making excuses for the snobbish attitude others have taken towards people who don’t play exactly as you or others think they should, and when things started to go against you, you suddenly are all about family and responsibility.

Taking an hour longer is an issue, but your attitude towards people who don’t play exactly as you think they should is quite obvious. Do GW2 a favor and when you start a dungeon party where you are so lowered that you have to dredge the bottom of the barrel of the rest of us players with the LFG tool, be sure to tag it “elite” so people know to avoid you since they are so inferior to your god like gamer status.

For the record, when i pug, I don’t have a long list of wants and needs. If I’m pugging I know I’m going to get the bottom of the barrel play how you wants. Even if I give a description. People don’t read.

Do me a favor and don’t join my elitist stench parties. Because it isn’t like I routinely carry cleric guards and bow bears whenever I’m too nice to kick, which happens.

The reason you hate me here is because I’m trying to stop this at the root of the problem: all of you think you know what’s right and you don’t. Thus you spread false information which spreads into unknowing pugs. It is your denial that is the issue here. No one would complain if you didn’t say things like “My build is fine! It’s better than the meta! I’m right and I don’t care how much proof you have you’re wrong!”

I feel sorry for anyone you try to help by teaching them.

Edit: I also want to make this point. If you want to play the way you want, by all means, but don’t say I’m a terrible person for wanting to play how I want, and thus not letting bads into my party.

I grow tired of hearing people whine and moan about the ranger class.

I get absolutely smoked by spirit rangers in WvW. There’s a ranger in my guild who is a level 50 fractal runner. And I’ve beaten every path of every dungeon in this game with the ranger class.

With all due respect, learn to play.

On the topic of speed runs, only a small percentage of very visible people do them. It’s efficient at making money, and it’s competitive. It’s also a misnomer that most players do this.

The truth is most players probably run dungeons very rarely or not at all. Dungeons aren’t welcoming. They’re hard content for people not used to them.

The elitists among us would have us believe they’re doing us some great favor showing us how to play a game more efficiently. It’s funny, because in real life I’m very efficient, but when I stop to relax for the evening the very last thing I care about is efficiency. I believe more players are like this than are speed runners.

My advice to you OP is to find a nice casual guild, and enjoy dungeons without worrying about a small minority of elitists who think their way to play is “the” way to play.

Traiting properly?, you mean so they don’t die or so they do max damage?

For maximum damage. This means spotter and traited frost spirit.

dead equals 0 DPS

Incorrect. Being dead does not reset your damage per second to zero, what it instead does is allow the bad player in PVT who is “tanking” hits to actually catch up to the dead player’s DPS which is gradually dropping but is still higher than the PVT user. Depending on how long the zerker was up, the fight might even end and the PVT’er still didn’t catch up.

but i can survive far better than those “elitist” that i have to res every boss almost. Stop being elitist kittens.

And I survive far better than most useless pugs and end up soloing or duoing bosses because they either all died or can’t perform the skip so I just start without them.

The elitists among us would have us believe they’re doing us some great favor showing us how to play a game more efficiently. It’s funny, because in real life I’m very efficient, but when I stop to relax for the evening the very last thing I care about is efficiency. I believe more players are like this than are speed runners.
My advice to you OP is to find a nice casual guild, and enjoy dungeons without worrying about a small minority of elitists who think their way to play is “the” way to play.

Clearly, when I took a group yesterday through SE p2 (you know, the one nobody does? I took a group through it for their DM), took a friend through Arah p2 as a duo and took a whole group through Arah p2 a few weeks ago I wasn’t doing them any favours at all.

LittleLepton.8915:

But what’s nice with ranger sword is you have multiple offhand options. That is something that is not easy to find in most classes. To have 3 decent offhand choices? That’s nuts. And I like it.

Too much managing (ooc off-hand swapping) on a class that already requires a lot of management (pets), but that’s just my opinion I guess.

mahariel.4981:

Main hand sword, hammer, longbow and rifle DPS is utter trash, so no, they are forced in to using main hand axe. Greatsword autoattack is bad too.

I’ve played a Warrior, and tbh I did a lot better with Sword/Axe+Greatsword than any other weapon combo.

I will agree with your comment about the Greatsword auto attack, though it can be very useful as a swap because of the other weapon skills.

Wow this escalated quickly.

I think the important thing to take away from this is that there are (broadly speaking) two different groups of people doing dungeons: Speed-clearers (pugs or otherwise) and casual players who just want to get through the dungeon and don’t mind how long it takes or if you wipe along the way.

They have quite different mentalities and approaches to dungeons and you need to decide going in which group you’d like to fit into and look for like-minded people.

No need to demand that everyone else match your preferred style, whatever that may be.

Everytime I bring my double bow bear apothecary ranger to fotm 49 all I get is trash talked and then kicked. This has to stop.

Daesyn.4781:

LittleLepton.8915:

But what’s nice with ranger sword is you have multiple offhand options. That is something that is not easy to find in most classes. To have 3 decent offhand choices? That’s nuts. And I like it.

Too much managing (ooc off-hand swapping) on a class that already requires a lot of management (pets), but that’s just my opinion I guess.

I enjoy running sword/war horn and sword/ torch for the fire field and then blast. I don’t use bow or whatever outside of RP. I use axe offhand instead of torch when I need the reflect.

But yeah the pet thing, I guess it can be complicated.

Daesyn.4781:

LittleLepton.8915:

But what’s nice with ranger sword is you have multiple offhand options. That is something that is not easy to find in most classes. To have 3 decent offhand choices? That’s nuts. And I like it.

Too much managing (ooc off-hand swapping) on a class that already requires a lot of management (pets), but that’s just my opinion I guess.

This is one of the funny things about the ranger. They do require more managing, both in combat and when going between game modes but some people really like that and they tend to be the ones who get good at playing them. The elementalist and engineer are similar – you need to keep switching attunements or kits to be effective.

It’s one of the things I think is sometimes overlooked about this game. They actully have a really good variety of professions that cover a lot of different playstyles and preferences. It might take a while to figure it out (especially because they don’t follow the typical trinity system) but I would have thought everyone can find at least one profession they enjoy.

Come back to me about micromanagement when you’re using greatsword/axe+mace, have to go to your trait loadout, swap slashing power to axe mastery, forceful greatsword to deep strikes, open your inventory, swap greatsword for longbow, use signet of fury for adrenaline and then use F1 for a fire field, press 3 for blast finisher, swap in warhorn, press 5 for blast finisher, drop a banner of discipline and then press 3 to aggro Alphard to where you’re standing all in the period of a few seconds.

Dont even get me started on guardian

So in retrospect OP and others also wondering about the QoL of Rangers in dungeons. Take the time to figure out how you prefer the end game content. Look through the ranger section of this forum and ask opinions with others to draw your own conclusion on how you prefer to play.

But I can tell you, despite what some have stated on this thread, there has and is players who have taken weapon combinations and builds some would not deem viable, and maximized the efficiency of said build. It takes time to thoroughly define a build you’re comfortable with, and everyone has a different taste.

Ranger is the center of heated effiency debates do to the nature of having the pet as the rangers main mechanic to the class. Some might decide to look at other classes that seem easier to play (i.e, warrior) since the ranger takes patience and understanding.

LittleLepton.8915:

For the record, when i pug, I don’t have a long list of wants and needs. If I’m pugging I know I’m going to get the bottom of the barrel play how you wants. Even if I give a description. People don’t read.

Do me a favor and don’t join my elitist stench parties. Because it isn’t like I routinely carry cleric guards and bow bears whenever I’m too nice to kick, which happens.

The reason you hate me here is because I’m trying to stop this at the root of the problem: all of you think you know what’s right and you don’t. Thus you spread false information which spreads into unknowing pugs. It is your denial that is the issue here. No one would complain if you didn’t say things like “My build is fine! It’s better than the meta! I’m right and I don’t care how much proof you have you’re wrong!”

I feel sorry for anyone you try to help by teaching them.

Edit: I also want to make this point. If you want to play the way you want, by all means, but don’t say I’m a terrible person for wanting to play how I want, and thus not letting bads into my party.

(and there’s the core of the problem. You think you’re better at the game than everyone else)

Ranger Oppression? C’mon, let’s be honest, the very title of this thread is ridiculous.

Yes, of all the current classes the Ranger class is the one most likely to be shunned or kicked: that’s a fact. Having said that, the so-called “auto-kicked for being a Ranger” claim is overwhelmingly grossly exaggerated, and at times, an out-right fabricated claim.

Rarely does a single week go by where I have not run at least 2 or 3 dungeons, and I’ve been doing this for months. And because my primary guild is focused on WvW, I mainly run pugs. Sorry, but to claim Rangers are regularly being kicked (or not accepted) from groups is preposterous. That claim simply defies what I have experienced first hand, and what I see in the LFG panel. What’s more, I use to main a Ranger, and pugged frequently, and only ever once experienced any “Ranger bias” in the dozens upon dozens of pugs my Ranger was in. And yes, this includes my early, but thankfully short, “bear, short-bow” phase when I had yet to work out proper builds and skill rotations for the class.

Again, let me re-state it, " Yes, of all the current classes the Ranger class is the one most likely to be shunned or kicked: that’s a fact." … so I am NOT saying this bias does not exist, however, let me re-state this also, " Having said that, the so-called “auto-kicked for being a Ranger” claim is overwhelmingly a grossly exaggerated, and at times, an out-right fabricated claim."

And on the rare occasions that I have seen a Ranger kicked from a pug I’m in, without exception he was a Ranged DPSer (more accurately, a dps feather tickler), with a Tanky Pet, and in non-stacking encounters (like the Spider queen in TA) he was nowhere to be seen near the boss (because he was 1200 to 1500 away doing a tiny fraction of dps, and giving his boons to …. only himself).

Elitist Ranger bias? Sure, it exists, and sadly so. But let’s not pretend that the entire bias is a one way street … because the “bearbow – stereotype” is not a myth, but far too often, a reality.

Izaya.2906:

Zeefa.3915:

I have not even attempted to get groups for dungeons and fractals, because I know in advance that I will not be welcome.

Actually mahariel I have been using sword warhorn in the few dungeon runs I been in, swapping with short or longbow depending on the situation. Never used bears, but canine… not felines granted, but at least not the bear.

Are you full zerker with scholar runes etc.? Do you also use Frost Spirit utility & Spotter Trait? These are usually what people look for during the first encounter aside from S/W weaponset.

Most teams want you in melee range ALL the time too. It’s because of boon range, you’re too far to give them boons/buffs and you’re too far to benefit from theirs if you’re on bow (plus 1h sword does the most damage). Consider having dagger on offhand swap instead of a bow.

Aside from that, if you’re being kicked as soon as you join and before they see you with a s/w are you making sure you’re not joining groups looking for specific classes only? If not, then it’s probably being a ranger + low achievement points that’s getting you kicked.

You did not read the first thing I said did you? I said I don’t even attempt to join groups, so I have not been kicked and I am not doing all those things, because I am not even going to try dungeons in the first place. May look for casual/fun/guild group at some point, or use an alt.

I’m sorry, but I am going to have to side with the “elitists” on this one.

Firstly I love playing odd builds that I created that are sub optimal. I think it is one of the things in this game that makes it shine. You can make almost any build, and have it work for you, BUT just because the build works does not make it optimal.

More times than not groups, especially PUGs do not want sub-optimal builds. The group is already at a disadvantage from it being a PUG, you bringing your terrible DPS build in the dungeon run does not improve the situation.

Secondly, when did it become ethical to bring your C game rather than your A game to groups? Why is YOUR enjoyment priority over your groups?

Do I like playing Shortbow ranger? Heck ya I do! Would I bring it into a dungeon group? HECK NO! You know why? Because that isn’t my A game. I can do more for my group with a different weapon set. Now if I am doing a DE or running world completion I will bust out my bow, but why is it okay for you to bring your sloppy seconds to a group?

Let’s take my WvW team. I enjoy playing my guardian for WvW. I have a solider build that focuses on empowering might and altruistic healing. This is a great build, BUT this isn’t what my group needs. My group is actually looking for a cleric build guardian that focuses on heal bombing and maximum boons.

So do I say, “Screw you guys, soldier build is fun, Im playing that instead.” Guess what would happen? Exactly. Kicked from group.

Why is the community so crazy freaking selfish in group. Play what helps the group or play with friends who are okay with it. Being selfish with a complete group of strangers trying to play the game is just bad form in every way, and frankly I can’t imagine how people like this would be in real life.

TLDR: Your groups needs outweigh your “fun.” Stop being so selfish.

bielerad.7263:

So I’ve been playing a Ranger pretty steady for about a month.
In any MMO I’ve played Rangers have always been my favorite class, ever since everquest and everquest 2. I love the whole woodsman/outdoorish archer class. I’ve never had any issues with the play style and I love archery.

Guild Wars 2 however seems to hate Rangers and have passed this on to the players of GW2. Especially the elitists and their extreme narcissism.

No one will do fractals or dungeons. My favorite things to do. I’m often kicked out of groups for no reasons, made fun of, called names even if I’m doing better at DPS or surviving in the dungeons than say, a warrior or necro.

Am I alone here with the unfair disadvantage Guild Wars 2 and Arena Net has put on the ranger?
Fix it maybe?

2 things……….

Rangers are often played by new players. Not many Elitists players play ranger so there’s alot of bad ones. No offense to new players but…..practice makes perfect.

Shortbow/longbow builds. The absolute worst thing you could bring into a dungeon next to scepter/torch mesmer.

If I see the Ranger is using GS I have no problem doing PVE with them. If they have a shortbow equipped I’d just as soon find a new party.

My friend has dragged me into a lot of dungeons and not once have I ever been kicked or people even opted to kick me, and we normally pug 3 people at a time. Then again I tend to not give a kitten about DPS or speed runs and make it very well known that we are skipping and exploiting NOTHING.

That being said I know I’ve kicked a lot of rangers out of my groups and cringe almost anytime I get another ranger (that I don’t know) in my group because of how bad it seems 85% of them are…. Again I don’t care about damage, or how fast we clear, or what they use, but when they don’t help the group, ignore important mechanics, don’t follow with the strategy etc. I’m not gonna out up with em, and I doubt any of the more elitist people out there would either.

It’s not a problem with the profession, it’s a problem with the majority of players on the profession.

Which suggests its a problem with the class, that it leads so many players to either poor conclusions or poor understanding of broader game mechanics.

I love my Ranger, but I share that cringing sensation when I hear things like “oh, my pet tanks for me!” because I keep thinking “If that’s true, then you aren’t doing nearly enough damage…”

I have a friend who regularly whispers me when he’s going to start a fractal or dungeon. Sometimes I bring my ranger and its never a problem, but that’s more to do with knowing the content and knowing how to be a ranger in a group rather than a ranger alone in the woods.

@Nike idk if I’d say that’s a problem with the class, and I know that I’ve had my pet tank for me and the group quite a lot in fractals and dungeons (brown bear OP) but that’s more for a specific reason, hardly rely on it, normally use my fern hound…

I have a feeling it may just be the group of players ranger attracts, but hell, I could be totally wrong with that, it’s just my opinion.

It’s not the profession, it’s the people. Especially the ones who are too pro for anything out of warrior/guard/mesmer setup and use the pirate tactics #16 – stacking.

Ranger has a lot to bring to the table, for example the famous healing spring – condition clensing, heal, pulsing regeneration and 10 sec water combo field? yes please! And unless we’re dealing with a bad ranger, then the last one to fall is the ranger and his infamous bear. Which can be swapped for attacking pet for those who don’t know ranger has 2 available in combat.

Mine is level 30 with sword + warhorn setup and feline/bear companions, and while i’m just touching the tip of ranger iceberg i’m already experiencing survival beyond any other profession i played, and awesome tag team action with my pet. There’s a lot more to do and i won’t say more since i’m just 30, but i see the potential there, a lot of it.

I’m not fan of sword/horn at all. I much prefer axe/axe, taking off hand training for a wider reflect diameter on a 20 sec cooldown. The axes have excellent cleave damage and the #1 ability for axe is quick, largely making up for the smaller single-target damage of the sword’s #1 which is much slower and a 3 step chain attack. It just feels far less clunky and versatile. Occasionally I’ll go axe/horn if the group needs the boons and/or blast finisher, but I feel like I’m contributing a lot more as axe/axe. My pet of choice with axe/axe is the Jungle Stalker.

Weapon switching I’ll usually take a trusty longbow, just because there are some situations where you need to back way off and still do damage. With my bow I bring my trust Fern Hound, which slows enemies down quite a bit with a knockdown and cripple, granting me more space to kite. The regen is also very important.

So I already got into stating I main with Jungle Stalker/Fern Hound. However, if the group is lacking in cleanses I switch to Snow Leopard/Brown Bear or Fern Hound/Brown Bear. The reason I bench the Jungle Stalker is to get anything to slow down the enemy’s movement speed in case the situation gets to the point I have to be able to kite.

I’m hoping my logic seems sound to the ranger community, as I’m still new to the profession.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

It’s not the profession, it’s the people. Especially the ones who are too pro for anything out of warrior/guard/mesmer setup and use the pirate tactics #16 – stacking.

Ranger has a lot to bring to the table, for example the famous healing spring – condition clensing, heal, pulsing regeneration and 10 sec water combo field? yes please! And unless we’re dealing with a bad ranger, then the last one to fall is the ranger and his infamous bear. Which can be swapped for attacking pet for those who don’t know ranger has 2 available in combat.

Mine is level 30 with sword + warhorn setup and feline/bear companions, and while i’m just touching the tip of ranger iceberg i’m already experiencing survival beyond any other profession i played, and awesome tag team action with my pet. There’s a lot more to do and i won’t say more since i’m just 30, but i see the potential there, a lot of it.

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

A ranger can bring ALOT for the team(comparable to warriors IMHO), but most of the time rangers make poor choices, I’m seeing Signet of Stone + Hunt & no Frost Spirit

If they bring Spotter & Healing Spring but are in Bow hundreds of meters away, it’s as good as not bringing it at all because they aren’t close enough to actually benefit other players in the party with those good buffs/heals.

This is what gives rangers a bad reputation, at least for normal pick up groups.

To be honest, if most rangers are played right(for the team), people would pick them over warriors(guardians and mesmers are another story because they bring reflects and other damage mitigation).

I can never forgive rangers for longbow #4. There is never a right time to use that skill.

Without a dps parser, people will keep hating rangers, because there is no real way how to prove you are not so useless as they say. I wonder how much overpowered should ranger become to make pug accept this class again and how long would it take.

DaShi.1368:

I can never forgive rangers for longbow #4. There is never a right time to use that skill.

Oh really? Like if the mob is standing back to a wall and you need to interrupt something? Or, say, guards or wars hammer #4 or eles #3 on lightning hammer happen to be on cd? Come on, almost everybody has a pushback attack. But looks like only rangers are to blame.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Mine is level 30 with sword + warhorn setup and feline/bear companions, and while i’m just touching the tip of ranger iceberg i’m already experiencing survival beyond any other profession i played, and awesome tag team action with my pet. There’s a lot more to do and i won’t say more since i’m just 30, but i see the potential there, a lot of it.

Not to be a downer, but you haven’t gotten to the part of the game that kicks rangers in the junk over and over again: dungeon bosses and their monotonous dodge-or-die mechanics that tend to obliterate your pet.

I’m fond of the class but I really do hope some of the class mechanic issues get better.
Sooner than later, preferably.

DaShi.1368:

I can never forgive rangers for longbow #4. There is never a right time to use that skill.

Longbow is just not intended as a group-play weapon. Solo and in WvW it’s got some shining moments, but in a group, shortbow or axe if you still prefer range/survivability, and melee if you’re looking to dish a beating.

Actually, in a competent group Ranger takes the place of a second warrior now. The problem is there are competent players which are few and far in between and then there are average people who try to copy things without trying to understand why they are doing what they are doing.

There are a couple of very solid builds with rangers for high tier PvE but all of them end up a sort of spirit build in essence:

1)If you want to do CoF/CoE/whatever speedruns
-you use the build Brazil popularized with 20 25 0 25 0 trait distribution where taking spotter and spirit adept is a must(in all builds is) and taking jungle and black cat

2)For fractals you do not need the super max DPS build because for the most part you want a bit broader utility range and there are 2 variants (thx Chopps for taking the time to discuss things with me)
a)30 0 20 20 0 (or 20 0 20 30 or 20 0 25 25 0)traits distribution. The big ones here are spotter, OH training and 2xSpirit traits. You run Sword/Horn and Axe/Axe with jungle cat and red moa. You dont even have to be full berserker but being focused around DPS is prefered ofc.

Anyway, the ranger can bring so much to the table even though there are design deficiencies. The PvE pet HP buff was a huge boost to viability in high end PvE so pets are less of a risk now.

Bottom line is: Good players will probably ask you what gear/utils/traits you are running as it has been proven that the ranger is harder to use properly then warrior in high end PvE, so u can expect that. But if you show them that you are competent in the build you have chosen they will play with you

If you are Prideful and Ego Savy; i suggest you to not reply to the Op thread; Seriously!!

LEAVE EGO AND PRIDE TO THE ELITIST SUPERIOR CLASSES

This thread is not for EGO driven Prideful Rangers players but for Humble Understanding Ranger Players, who can share and contribute the Op sufferings and hopefully encourage the Op spirit to be strong during our tribulations as rangers.

As a ranger, the only time i’m welcomed to do dungeons is with the guild i belong to, other than that, i am left in darkness by the snare of Hate by the Superior classes.

I’m constantly being reminded how much a failure i am, how much a nobody i am, how much of incapable i am, how much of a lesser being i am, how much of a unworthy class i am, all because of my identity; Ranger.

This is the only MMo where i feel i was born to die, born to suffer, born to be oppressed, born to be unjustly hated, born to be punished, born to be everyone scapegoat, born to to intentionally targeted, born to be sadistically tortured, so many many more

What crimes have we done to be treated as an Outlaw, Oppressed Class?

You crippled our soul, you crippled our life, you crippled our survival, you crippled our security, you crippled our hope, you dreams, your crippled our present, you crippled our future, you crippled our liberty, you crippled our freedom, you crippled our cries, you crippled our brokenness,….

Are you not Satisfied ?

What more do you want from us ?

You took away our Honor

You took away our Prestige

You took away our Cause

You took away our reason

You took away our Justice

You took away our Integrity

You took away our Liberty

You took away our Freedom

You took away our Existence

You took away our Life

What else is left in us ?

Don’t you understand ?

we serve no purpose anymore

no purpose at all

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

I would posit that encouraging a newbie to waste gold and time on gear and strategies that are not efficient or as good (I’m assuming that he does not want to spend hours in a single dungeon) is a terrible thing and you should get in trouble for griefing.

This implies that all people play for the same reasons you do… to do the content in the fastest, more efficient means possible. However, it’s downright foolish to assume such. Some people play simply to play, and therefore have just as much right to play how they please as you do. So what if it’s not the most efficient, or provides the most DPS. If the group as a whole is enjoying itself (after all, this is supposed to be a game about the ‘journey’ not the ‘destination’ as I keep being told), then what is the issue?

Shocked by the anger in this forum. Obvious problems like pets dying because they don’t dodge aside, I would ask most Rangers if they’ve played another class, and if they’ve played dungeons with that class, and if they’ve been kicked for poor play while doing so. If yes, you really shouldn’t be complaining in this thread.

And to those of you who are getting mad at Rangers because you’ve got evidence that a certain build or a certain class is 3% more efficient than another, I understand elite players playing like that, but most people don’t find that fun. I’m not saying I’m trying to suck, but if I like the greatsword and the longbow, i’ll use the best build that uses the greatsword and the longbow. You can all go to kitten.

Really, compared to the other classes I’ve played, Ranger seems extremely powerful.

Nike.2631:

DaShi.1368:

I can never forgive rangers for longbow #4. There is never a right time to use that skill.

Longbow is just not intended as a group-play weapon. Solo and in WvW it’s got some shining moments, but in a group, shortbow or axe if you still prefer range/survivability, and melee if you’re looking to dish a beating.

The problem is that #4 is a ranged knock-back. It doesn’t matter for the ranger to use #4 because they can still hit the target at range. Other professions have melee knockbacks and would harm themselves as much as their party with the same random knockbacks that Rangers have become infamous for. Anet should just change it to a daze or stun. Then it could actually be useful on occasion.

This happens in every MMO in existence pretty much. The “elites”, re kitten wipes, take the top 3-4 classes that they believe are optimal for the most, and quickest success.

Say for instance that Warriors were the 4th best class for clearing dungeons. The elites are completely happy with Warriors and invite them to their groups all the time.

Then Anet decides to buff Rangers. They go a bit overboard and now Rangers are stronger than Warrior. Guess what happens now? Warriors are booted from groups and Rangers are added. Even though Warriors have proven they are more than capable of contributing in speed runs etc, now that Rangers are stronger, Warriors are relegated to 2nd class citizen.

That’s how the snobby elites operate. Nothing can be done about it.

tldr : There will only ever be the 3-4 favored classes for speed runs in dungeons. Those classes aren’t set in stone. They will change after each patch

Forzani.2584:

This happens in every MMO in existence pretty much. The “elites”, re kitten wipes, take the top 3-4 classes that they believe are optimal for the most, and quickest success.

Say for instance that Warriors were the 4th best class for clearing dungeons. The elites are completely happy with Warriors and invite them to their groups all the time.

Then Anet decides to buff Rangers. They go a bit overboard and now Rangers are stronger than Warrior. Guess what happens now? Warriors are booted from groups and Rangers are added. Even though Warriors have proven they are more than capable of contributing in speed runs etc, now that Rangers are stronger, Warriors are relegated to 2nd class citizen.

That’s how the snobby elites operate. Nothing can be done about it.

tldr : There will only ever be the 3-4 favored classes for speed runs in dungeons. Those classes aren’t set in stone. They will change after each patch

The irony is this becomes more true with each generation of games. Go back to DAOC release and people really being locked into class and spec (with bad levelling curves as well) and the elite players pretty much ended up with what they ended up with for a group.

As gaming companies have become more casual friendly making leveling and skill trait adjustments easy and functionally meaningless the same “elite” players now expect people in precise specs and roles. Why? The game mechanics not only make it easy but the specs of the most efficient classes and numbers of the most efficient classes are such you can easily make groups from them so you can enforce a more perfect requirement.

In previous gaming generations while you might have many of the most efficient class respecing cost/time or complete inability to do so meant you took how they were speced and less desirable classes compared well to non ideal primary classes.

So efforts to make games more casual friendly have triggered the expectation people will do what’s best for the group. And in most games that means fewer not more places for the jack of all trades class (which also tends to attract the most individualistic players unwilling to change their play styles.)

Don’t blame the elitist players. They are simply behaving human. Find the easiest way to do something and repeat.

Well I do blame the elitist, because it is a lousy way to treat people. Even when a class is ‘perceived’ to be better (because that can change in an instant when someone figures out a new killer spec), and that perception says class A does 1.3% more damage than class B…therefore class B is garbage and won’t get included.

…and honestly, I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to say

The ‘problem’ with Rangers is that they are a more complex class than the more popular warrior. A warrior can just roll his face off the keyboard, and he’ll contribute to the group he’s in: He’ll do damage. Rangers, however, do have a lower DPS, due to the presence of a second entity fighting for them. This doesn’t mean rangers have poor DPS, it just means they have to think more about how to do damage, and contribute to their groups in other ways.

Example: The infamous BearBow (Longbow/Bear/Shortbow) has poorer DPS than the warrior at base, sits out of range of the buffs being thrown around at melee range, and has poor pet damage. Since you’re so far out of the fight, any utility you offer your group is lost too, since your team is out of its range. All you’re brining to the dungeon is crappy DPS and a selfish meatshield in your pet.

However, you can improve your own DPS and the DPS of your group with skills such as Hunter’s Tactics (More damage from behind), Steady Focus (More damage with full endurance), and Frost Spirit and Spotter. This allows you to bolster your entire group’s damage by 7%, and give everyone 7% crit chance. Let’s see your precious warrior do that. As for pets, there are better options for tanking than bears – you can run a devourer for the conditions and range it has, which, combined with it’s excellent responsiveness and dodging abilities, makes it a very survivable pet. Not a tank, but certainly the kind of pet that sticks around. As an alternative to bears, I’d recommend wolves – they’re less tanky, but do more damage, and offer lots of conditions (Gray wolves have a 3 second fear, a knockdown, and a cripple.) Fern Hounds make for good offtanks as well, since they have a 1000 HP AoE burst heal, combined with 2000 HP AoE regen. Again, it offers your team some more utility and support than a bear does. As for damage pets, I’d recommend birds or cats – they simply have the highest damage output among pets (Cats are highest on non-moving targets, birds are highest on moving targets). That, and Jungle Stalkers can supply 5 stacks of AoE Might, which is a pretty big deal, and allows you to further bolster the DPS of your entire team.

Weapon-wise, the Longbow certainly has it’s place – at proper range, it has good DPS, and excellent kiting and de-aggro based abilities. But it’s important to get into melee range sometimes too – Rangers have lots of boons they can give, and so does your team. Share the love! Pick up a Sword/Warhorn, and you’ll get lots of high-damage dodging abilities, as well as the ability to give everyone in your team15 seconds of fury, might and swiftness. Better yet, if you use your Warhorn’s 5th skill inside a Healing Spring, you’ll trigger a 1000 HP AoE heal as well! Again, it lets you offer your team a bunch of heals and condition removal, while still doing decent damage.

Spirits are a core part of what makes Rangers great – USE THEM! They take a bit of practice to get used to first, it’s all about learning to place them so that you and all your team are in range of its buffs, but the spirit is in no danger of being killed. I’d recommend taking the Vigorous Spirits trait, since it doubles their health, and chance of proccing. As for spirits themselves, some of them are only really useful in a full-spirit build, but spirits of Stone, Sun, and Frost are brilliant accents to any Ranger’s build that lets you offer a range of boons to your team.

Basically, Rangers need to use all the different tools in their kits in order to be really effective – your own weapons, your pet, and your spirits. I’d say Rangers in this game are best classified as a high damage support class – if you can try to get into that mentality, you’ll find the class and its skills will make a lot more sense, and you’ll get much better results in dungeons

Rangers can spam endless Fury, Swiftness and Regen with a Shout build, while still having a great amount of DPS, spike damage and survivability.

But it requires some good knowledge of your class you are playing and it isn’t that easy as playing a “boring” Hammer Warrior. You are focusing on your pet alot, since its key to keep it alive in the first 10-30 seconds of the fight.

I tend to use my ranger every now and then during raids, just to try and show that rangers can be usefull in their own way. But all the hate stays, even when you dont die that quickly as warriors do when they get focused or spiked.

All the hate we rangers receive from people are people who play the easy class, its bandwagon hate, it has become normal to hate rangers, for what reason? No one can explain, they only say rangers suck, but dont say on what things we suck, why can’t they. Because they never played a ranger

Even in roaming im seeing less rangers these days, those rare ones are mostly Longbow ones. Not that hard to take on.

Xerion.8014:

Rangers can spam endless Fury, Swiftness and Regen with a Shout build, while still having a great amount of DPS, spike damage and survivability.

But it requires some good knowledge of your class you are playing and it isn’t that easy as playing a “boring” Hammer Warrior. You are focusing on your pet alot, since its key to keep it alive in the first 10-30 seconds of the fight.

I tend to use my ranger every now and then during raids, just to try and show that rangers can be usefull in their own way. But all the hate stays, even when you dont die that quickly as warriors do when they get focused or spiked.

All the hate we rangers receive from people are people who play the easy class, its bandwagon hate, it has become normal to hate rangers, for what reason? No one can explain, they only say rangers suck, but dont say on what things we suck, why can’t they. Because they never played a ranger

Even in roaming im seeing less rangers these days, those rare ones are mostly Longbow ones. Not that hard to take on.

I consider myself forced-casual, in that I don’t have a lot of time to play, but if I did, I’d probably be doing fractal runs and have 5 level 80s. My ranger is only level 27, but from what I’ve seen in spvp there is a lot of truth to the 2 posts above. I logged in last night to test 3 builds, a ranger power shout build for longbow/gs/birds, a ranger power sigil build with gs/longbow/birds, and a D/D condition thief build.

The thief build worked, but it felt very much like chucking a hand grenade and hoping the enemy panic’d instead of throwing it back out the window. Hated it, but that’s just a playstyle thing I guess. First time I played it I had the most kills on the server that round.

Ranger sigil build sucked horribly. I don’t know what you people are thinking, sacrificing everything just to get one big number pop up once in a fight is dumb.

Yeah it turns out, for me, the best build is the one I came up with myself. Turns out it is not always best to just blindly do what others tell you to.

Really, all anyone should be trying to do is improve. You don’t have to blindly spec what other people tell you to spec, but there are nuggets of truth in there, so try to be the best player you can be. Learn, get better, and work your way up to ‘elite speed run player’ status. They’re the elite players for a reason, don’t expect to be instantly invited into their groups just because its fair.

One time I played through a dungeon, we got to the end boss, and couldn’t beat it. We noticed one guy was always AFK, always getting killed fast, and we looked at him, he was naked. All his armor was broken. “Go back and repair” we tell him. Nope, he is broke, can’t repair. And some people wonder why they get kicked from groups.

Burnfall.9573:

You took away our Honor

You took away our Prestige

You took away our Cause

You took away our reason

You took away our Justice

You took away our Integrity

You took away our Liberty

You took away our Freedom

You took away our Existence

You took away our Life

“Pls,Pls,Pls,Pls, TAKE AWAY OUR PETS¡¡¡¡¡¡¡”

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

LittleLepton.8915:

I would posit that encouraging a newbie to waste gold and time on gear and strategies that are not efficient or as good (I’m assuming that he does not want to spend hours in a single dungeon) is a terrible thing and you should get in trouble for griefing.

This implies that all people play for the same reasons you do… to do the content in the fastest, more efficient means possible. However, it’s downright foolish to assume such. Some people play simply to play, and therefore have just as much right to play how they please as you do. So what if it’s not the most efficient, or provides the most DPS. If the group as a whole is enjoying itself (after all, this is supposed to be a game about the ‘journey’ not the ‘destination’ as I keep being told), then what is the issue?

He’s asking for people to accept rangers into their groups.

But most people automatically assume the ranger is terrible without giving them a chance. That’s the issue here, and he’s simply pointing out that while yes some do suck, not all do and not all should be automatically rejected based on the failings of others.

Because the majority of people do not want to spend more time than they need to in a dungeon (sure you can say that not everyone wants to play that way, but the majority DO)

Ah yes… the whole ‘must get the cookie noooooooooow’ mentality that has infected so many. Gods forbid you take 5 or even 10 more minutes. You might miss a shiny you could have gotten because you had time for ‘just 1 more run.’ Such mentality is a disease.

You know what mentality is a disease? One that doesn’t get having a run last 10 minutes longer can actually be too much for a player like myself, with a family, house, job, etc. so stop telling me that that time doesn’t matter, because it matters to me, and other people who don’t have all the time in the world.

Also, it isn’t usually 10 minutes. If I run with an optimized group versus a free for all, on average, it’s about an hour longer.

Stop telling me false information. Stop spreading the real disease.

Based on this post, and the assertion that you don’t have 10 minutes to spare, I’d venture to say you probably shouldn’t be playing a MMO in the first place.

Using your personal time and patience limitations to justify being hostile to people? That’s uncouth.