Guild Wars 2

My opinion is malleable and this is a discussion that progresses throughout the thread

So I think it’s time we sit down and have a discussion about the 2 builds.

Mender’s Staff S/D: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Druid_-_Bunker_Druid
Mender’s Staff/LB: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Druid_-_Shoutbow

First and foremost, I take lots of issue with the fact that whoever is moderating the meta tag on metabattle and how they have listed these 2 builds. I do have bias. It’s important to note.

Anyhow; neither of these is a bad build, and while I would really enjoy saying “play the build that’s right for you,” well, each build is stronger than the other depending on the circumstance or the team compositions.

Also, please note, the ONLY reason that Signet of the Wild is being run on the LB build is because of a bug. It is not an optimal choice outside of that bug, and Signet of Renewal is always the choice for that slot (in this metagame) if you are disregarding the bug (which you should be because using a bug as a crutch will weaken your long term effectiveness and potential improvement as a player).

So, when should you use each build?
Mender’s Bunker:

• +There is almost never a bad time to run this build. It’s the most well rounded build for performing all the various PvP roles.
• -When your team doesn’t have enough damage to generate kills, Bow is typically a better option, though it’s highly dependent on composition.

Mender’s Bow:

• +You sacrifice lots and lots of kiting and surviving potential for a gimmick. When the gimmick works, it’s great, and you can fill spots in your team composition by just running this build (lacking damage).
• -Whenever there is 2+ of any of the following: Tempest, Scrapper, Berserker, Dragonhunter, Revenant, Thief. You really shouldn’t be running this build unless you out-skill your opponents. Lots of your damage and effectiveness will be mitigated, and you will be an easier target to focus down and kill.

Remember; this evaluation is done from a level of expected competence.

So why is this the evaluation that I give these builds? Well first and foremost; Staff/LB has NEVER been played at an organized and high level of gameplay. It was played as a fun build during the current season of PvP, it has not been tested at a high level (tournament level), and it is unlikely it will perform will in that environment and with that level of organization. This is important, because while ingame effectiveness has always been different than tournament effectiveness due to rules/coordination differences, the metagame has always been derived from tournament play.

Besides that; the majority of common classes in the metagame have anti-projectile measures to the degree that it renders the LB ineffective for a good portion of the match, not to mention stability kills a huge part of the gimmick of that build. Also, when you sacrifice those evades, Revenants, Thieves, and even Warriors can now eat you alive and there isn’t much you can do but run around trying to heal and hope a teammate peels for you, whereas the evasive set might do less damage, but it allows you to survive a lot more focus.

All in all, what it really boils down to is this:

• Competent teammates? Bunker is the better build.
• Incompetent teammates? Bunker is honestly still the better build in the long run, but you might be able to carry your team with the LB if you can push kills.

Against a necro heavy comp, even with it’s downsides, LB can ruin that comps day. Necros have a very hard time seeing as how they “absorb” instead of avoid damage, which makes them very susceptible to LBs damage and the Ancient Seeds procs, and since the best way to beat Reapers is to use LB and kite them anyhow, you can potentially keep a Reaper heavy or reliant comp locked down by using the LB build (but be wary if they have good support, or else you just reduced your ability to kite them with your weapon choice and have essentially made yourself an easier kill).

Remember, high profile streamers playing builds means nothing about the metagame, because metagames are derived from how often builds occur (usually at a tournament level of play) and how effective they are against the other builds that have high occurrence rates.

Also, be prepared to see a lot more Staff/LB Druids, and remember that S/D wins the fight against the LB build over time (though why you would ever be 1v1ing another Druid short of fighting over a neutralized node is beyond comprehension).

I am aware other people have had other experiences that may differ with my evaluation; but ultimately you should be mastering the whole class, including each build, which also includes knowing when you shouldn’t be using a particular build or variant.

i never use the meta builds everyone i try out just does not fit with how i like to play so i just experiment with builds. that is after all how meta builds get made just someone experimenting

Appreciate the write up, but wanted to say that I’m pretty sure Alkore ran staff/longbow for vermillion in proleague LAN. This is in reply to your saying it’s never been used in top tier organized play.

In fairness, this was also when search and rescue was unnerfed. Vermillion was also in the minority running this iirc during season 2 I believe.

You raise some good points, however I think any ranger who didn’t use all the weapons for enemy comps is pretty dumb. I mean ranger has 6 weapons that all are great for power based builds. Sword axe warhorn are fantastic for guard, ele heavy comps, gs is great against teefs and warriors.

Also isn’t meta battle just a snap shot, here people like running this, it works for them maybe it will work for you too. What’s your point of this post?

Eleazar.9478:

You raise some good points, however I think any ranger who didn’t use all the weapons for enemy comps is pretty dumb. I mean ranger has 6 weapons that all are great for power based builds. Sword axe warhorn are fantastic for guard, ele heavy comps, gs is great against teefs and warriors.

Also isn’t meta battle just a snap shot, here people like running this, it works for them maybe it will work for you too. What’s your point of this post?

THAT’S the point. That whoever moderated the page and updated the metabattle builds (for more than just ranger, see the Berserker build) has done so differently and in some way that makes the accuracy of the meta section of metabattle questionable. The highest ranked Ranger/Druid on NA runs a different build, on stream as well. Doesn’t that make it meta worthy based on the same evidence that was used to tag these builds meta?

Like, if we were just going to have the meta section be “the most used builds,” it would guaranteed be different for every tier of play.

Also, the metabattle page does a very poor job explaining the purpose of the LB build. It’s very clear that somebody saw someone else playing it on stream, took the build, moved it manually, and left the description.

There is no “roles” section, no “combinations” section, nothing on how or when to use Celestial Avatar beyond common knowledge sorts of things, and nowhere does it even mention Signet of the Wild or even using it.

So I also felt it important to have the conversation about the builds, pros and cons, positives and negatives, what people should be using and when, etc, in a place where people actually know what they are talking about, and shared some of my opinions going into it so there would actually be something to discuss other than saying “here are the builds, discuss” lol.

BigEvs.6971:

Appreciate the write up, but wanted to say that I’m pretty sure Alkore ran staff/longbow for vermillion in proleague LAN. This is in reply to your saying it’s never been used in top tier organized play.

In fairness, this was also when search and rescue was unnerfed. Vermillion was also in the minority running this iirc during season 2 I believe.

I watched all of the proleagues and tournaments and don’t recall anybody having run Staff/LB, but I’ll check for accuracy sake. I feel like I should remember if Alkore did that lol.

Eurantien ran Staff/LB in his final pro league match before leaving for his Peace Corps assignment. I’m fairly certain this was more of a personal preference as indicated in the interview with Supcutie following the match.

https://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/68223362

monk seal.8079:

Eurantien ran Staff/LB in his final pro league match before leaving for his Peace Corps assignment. I’m fairly certain this was more of a personal preference as indicated in the interview with Supcutie following the match.

https://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/68223362

Fair enough.

Eurantien without a LB though isn’t even GW2 anymore lol. Power LB was his thing at high level, he didn’t care if there were technically better options, he was going to be the best, and do it with his weapon of choice.

He always ran something different than what everybody else did and was super successful with it…. I’d be curious to see what he’d be running in s5. Sure do miss him being around.

ah fair enough, I hear you on that, I do remember them saying they though they always need help with moderation, they posted it on reddit. SO anyone reading this if theres anytakers…

@jcbroe

I agree with your assessment and don’t consider Menders Shoutbow to be stronger than bunker, except in the 2 necro situation. But, to be honest I will usually swap to Nila’s Remorsless build when I see two necros.

I’ve been using Paul’s variation and really think it is a bit stronger than the the classic bunker in non-condition heavy match ups . (Signet of Wild with leadership runes)

Archon.6480:

@jcbroe

I agree with your assessment and don’t consider Menders Shoutbow to be stronger than bunker, except in the 2 necro situation. But, to be honest I will usually swap to Nila’s Remorsless build when I see two necros.

I’ve been using Paul’s variation and really think it is a bit stronger than the the classic bunker in non-condition heavy match ups . (Signet of Wild with leadership runes)

Yeah, I don’t play the same way Paul does and haven’t been able to get Signet of the Wild to work for me as often as I can rely on Signet of Renewal in matchups.

So much of it is matchup dependent though. Against Power heavy comps, I like the Leadership Runes for extending the duration of protection a bit while still giving some cleansing potential against anybody who is condi on the other team.

But….SO many people are running condi, and on builds that aren’t listed in the meta section (condi thief, burn guardian) that when I know it’s a matchup against things like that, I’ve actually started using Soldier Runes even though I was initially against it. Still, having the ability to EASILY deal with fighting those classes by countering them like that is SO much more helpful in the long run, especially depending on the level of players you queue with, because shutting them takes tons of pressure off your team, which is more important to me than running the objectively better build.

But yeah, I don’t think that Dolyak Runes should really be considered the meta standard anymore. With the 15 second timer I’m failing to run into situations where the regen from the runes is really necessary or makes a difference (maybe a minimal sustain difference), on either build.

I do remember someone running LB/staff other than eura in the pro season. Can’t remember the name though or even what team. It was a decap focused build, and then hold it neuted with menders. I think he may have had GoT??

I don’t think LB can be reduced to “gimmick”, if RF is what the gimmick is. RF does not do particularly impressive damage.

What I view as LBs purpose is setting up the kill for someone else. So if you’ve got teamies 1v1 on mid, you +1 while simultaneously covering a side point, hit the opponent with a hard CC, RF, smoke assault or whatever floats your boar and then leave to defend your point again. Druid with any weapon can easily hold a point, and LB is outstanding at catching people in the open field. On point LB is not ideal. I generally play between points, although thieves can complicate that.

Fluffball.8307:

I do remember someone running LB/staff other than eura in the pro season. Can’t remember the name though or even what team. It was a decap focused build, and then hold it neuted with menders. I think he may have had GoT??

I don’t think LB can be reduced to “gimmick”, if RF is what the gimmick is. RF does not do particularly impressive damage.

What I view as LBs purpose is setting up the kill for someone else. So if you’ve got teamies 1v1 on mid, you +1 while simultaneously covering a side point, hit the opponent with a hard CC, RF, smoke assault or whatever floats your boar and then leave to defend your point again. Druid with any weapon can easily hold a point, and LB is outstanding at catching people in the open field. On point LB is not ideal. I generally play between points, although thieves can complicate that.

I didn’t mean gimmick in an offensive way lol. And the gimmick is LB4 into an ancient seeds proc.

And all I mean to say is that in a direct meta game evaluation, the LB build loses efficacy against a lot of the common builds due to projectile hate, CC immunity, etc.

In real scenarios, if you can make the LB work for you better than S/D, that’s fantastic. Personally I think it carries better because you can actually kill people with less effort and with a bigger burst, which is definitely needed when you’re with people that don’t perform well at being in the damage role (oh yay, my necro is pushing far, and is now trying to go for a lord push when the game is only at 100 points and theres a team fight where they would have been useful in).

BUT, when there is a majority of people on the enemy team that you can’t catch with the LBs combo, then the weapon is no longer outperforming other weapon choices. Staff with quickness does relatively the same amount of single target damage, and swapping to sword autos during the Bristleback burst does roughly the same damage that RF does.

So at the end of the day; the major deciding factor is “how often can I setup my LB4 Ancient Seeds combo in this match?”

Highly skill dependent too. Like, people weak on Tempest get wrecked by LB4 and you can effectively shut down the enemy support all game. People good on Tempest will make your LB useless beyond Barrage because they cover all their important skills with projectile hate and invulnerability. And that’s just one class.

Without the sheer amount of blocking, projectile hate, stability, and immunity in the metagame, I think LB would be the better build in a heartbeat. But CC like the LB is the reason for this metagame in the first place.

jcbroe.4329:

Fluffball.8307:

I do remember someone running LB/staff other than eura in the pro season. Can’t remember the name though or even what team. It was a decap focused build, and then hold it neuted with menders. I think he may have had GoT??

I don’t think LB can be reduced to “gimmick”, if RF is what the gimmick is. RF does not do particularly impressive damage.

What I view as LBs purpose is setting up the kill for someone else. So if you’ve got teamies 1v1 on mid, you +1 while simultaneously covering a side point, hit the opponent with a hard CC, RF, smoke assault or whatever floats your boar and then leave to defend your point again. Druid with any weapon can easily hold a point, and LB is outstanding at catching people in the open field. On point LB is not ideal. I generally play between points, although thieves can complicate that.

I didn’t mean gimmick in an offensive way lol. And the gimmick is LB4 into an ancient seeds proc.

And all I mean to say is that in a direct meta game evaluation, the LB build loses efficacy against a lot of the common builds due to projectile hate, CC immunity, etc.

In real scenarios, if you can make the LB work for you better than S/D, that’s fantastic. Personally I think it carries better because you can actually kill people with less effort and with a bigger burst, which is definitely needed when you’re with people that don’t perform well at being in the damage role (oh yay, my necro is pushing far, and is now trying to go for a lord push when the game is only at 100 points and theres a team fight where they would have been useful in).

BUT, when there is a majority of people on the enemy team that you can’t catch with the LBs combo, then the weapon is no longer outperforming other weapon choices. Staff with quickness does relatively the same amount of single target damage, and swapping to sword autos during the Bristleback burst does roughly the same damage that RF does.

So at the end of the day; the major deciding factor is “how often can I setup my LB4 Ancient Seeds combo in this match?”

Highly skill dependent too. Like, people weak on Tempest get wrecked by LB4 and you can effectively shut down the enemy support all game. People good on Tempest will make your LB useless beyond Barrage because they cover all their important skills with projectile hate and invulnerability. And that’s just one class.

Without the sheer amount of blocking, projectile hate, stability, and immunity in the metagame, I think LB would be the better build in a heartbeat. But CC like the LB is the reason for this metagame in the first place.

TLDR. Against organized teams LB is a no no just because of the fact that there is too much projectile hate on meta classes running meta builds.

ELE: Magnetic Aura, Swirling Winds, Electric Wave

DH: All the blocks, Shield OH

Scrapper: Hammer Blocks and Reflects, Bulwark Gyro also minimizes Damage

Warrior: Blocks, Shield Trait, Shattering Blow

Not to mention you can LOS LB too so yeah..

Another minor I would add is that as you have mentioned there is too much kitten CC in the game. 2 of our LB skills are channeled. Easily Interruptible.

MEANING = you have to stay far far away to get your shots in = You lose support for the team since if you wanna capitalize on druid heals or what not, you have to be close to your teammates.

Many of the skills you listed also prevent staff from hitting, and staff can be LoSed. The reflect overabundance has been overblown. On paper it’s a problem, in practice it really isn’t a big deal. And people tend to use reflects immediately rather than strategically. Show a LB, reflect goes up, swap to staff and you’re good to go for the rest of the fight.

It is not so much about reflects. The issue with lb is, that you have to land key skills (mainly 3 and 4) to get value out of the weapon, but with the amount of active and passive defenses you can barely ensure to land those hits. Meanwhile with staff it doesn’t matter if they block some autoattacks or not. It is similar with s/d. Those two weapon sets offer reliable defenses that work no matter what the enemy does and even though they lack any kind of burst dmg they can still provide sustained pressure that suffers less from getting blocked/evaded every now and then than spike dmg would. I think, that’s the main reason, why staff + s/d are and will remain meta for now.

For bunkering, s/d is definitely the better set, but you don’t play LB like that. You CAN bunker just by being a druid, but LB is for +1ing. I usually set up between mid and home on any map, not just talking about Foefire.

You won’t kill any top tier player who just starts kiting at spots where he can’t get hit as soon he gets outnumbered. Thief can +1 much better – more stealth, more mobility, better burst, better at chasing down targets. Of course lb can work in normal ranked queues and occasionally it might be even better than s/d, but overall i don’t think can compete when we are talking about highest tier PvP with optimal comps and such. Jcbroe already explained it quite well imo.

For top tier organized teams is kind of irrelevant as literally zero of us are involved in that. And none of us are qualified to talk about that because organized teams do whatever works for them and meta is often thrown out the window, or even created by that particular team running a unique comp. Whatever abjured and TCG are currently called have done that countless times, running classes people insisted were not even viable at any level. As has been mentioned there have been pro league teams running LB.

There are what, 10 druids or something that will ever be in that scene? For other 3 million GW2 players…

There are still plenty of players that know how to play against lb druid and that won’t just sit there and let you pew pew them to death when they get +1’ed. LB will work sometimes and sometimes it won’t. It depends mostly on who you are fighting, even if we just look at ranked queues. s/d might be not optimal all the time either, but it is still less situational.

Another general concept that I think helps outlines usage cases would be this factor; does my team have a support Tempest?

Yes: I can pick up LB because the Tempest helps take priority away from me being a target and allows me to perform other roles.

No: I’m now the highest priority support, and teams should be focusing me whenever I drop Celestial Form, so S/D helps mitigate a lot of that focus and take pressure off of my team in doing so, which allows them to play more aggressively since they don’t have to peel for me.

That’s the exact reasoning I use when selecting weapons before a match, jcbroe. Tempest = LB.

And I think GS/staff is still something that should be considered. It’s a great decap build if you don’t have a thief and it makes sense with the rest of the comp.

Druid is not the best at any one role, but it’s probably the most versatile profession without having to change traits, just swap your non-staff weapon and boom, new role. Very easy before a match.

Fluffball.8307:

Many of the skills you listed also prevent staff from hitting, and staff can be LoSed. The reflect overabundance has been overblown. On paper it’s a problem, in practice it really isn’t a big deal. And people tend to use reflects immediately rather than strategically. Show a LB, reflect goes up, swap to staff and you’re good to go for the rest of the fight.

But here’s the big thing you are missing. Staff provides sustain to you and your team. Okay your opponent blocks? Heal yourself or or allies, you can kite too. LB does nothing of that.

That’s why Staff is very much superior to the team. Another problem with LB 4 is there too much stability farting in the game. And this nullifies 1 skill on your set. All of them if your opponent has reflects.

Imo, one major thing to consider for LB is you HAVE to use MM. Either for the unblockable or damage. Which in turn, you need to sacrifice BM or NM. You lose NM, you lose sustain, you lose boon sharing and you lose support.

You lose BM and You have to go WS or Signets for utility which in turn removes your mobility, and AF regen.

LB is not really the problem per se, its just that Some traitlines are very much required, limiting build options for LB AND the abundance of Projectile hate and stab.

Fluffball.8307:

That’s the exact reasoning I use when selecting weapons before a match, jcbroe. Tempest = LB.

And I think GS/staff is still something that should be considered. It’s a great decap build if you don’t have a thief and it makes sense with the rest of the comp.

Druid is not the best at any one role, but it’s probably the most versatile profession without having to change traits, just swap your non-staff weapon and boom, new role. Very easy before a match.

Druid is still pretty much a meta support role. Just because Druid is solely based on healing.

No matter what changes you make, let’s face it, if you have Druid, you HAVE to support. Really, otherwise the whole traitline and AF form is a waste.

StickerHappy.8052:

No matter what changes you make, let’s face it, if you have Druid, you HAVE to support. Really, otherwise the whole traitline and AF form is a waste.

I think the real value is the 1v1 or 2v2 ability. You can support ‘yourself’ and get good value out of staff and druid.

That alone isn’t good enough, but you have the other goodies like reasonable team support, reasonable pressure, good CC and so on. Druid is decent at like 10 different things. I never freak out if I see multiple druids on my team, I just swap amulets to something more damaging and we’ve got all roles covered.

Fluffball.8307:

StickerHappy.8052:

No matter what changes you make, let’s face it, if you have Druid, you HAVE to support. Really, otherwise the whole traitline and AF form is a waste.

I think the real value is the 1v1 or 2v2 ability. You can support ‘yourself’ and get good value out of staff and druid.

That alone isn’t good enough, but you have the other goodies like reasonable team support, reasonable pressure, good CC and so on. Druid is decent at like 10 different things. I never freak out if I see multiple druids on my team, I just swap amulets to something more damaging and we’ve got all roles covered.

Well to be fair on your other post, Anything works for solo q. Noone Is top tier here except for maybe talgo. I would like to do AGs and ESLs too but real life is calling.

One thing I am noticing, and maybe it’s just me; but LB really doesn’t deal damage better than S/D does, it just deals the damage differently.

Not that LB doesn’t deal more damage over the course of the match, because it absolutely does; the builds play fundamentally different, but in terms of “let me kill this target,” I haven’t had any experience that indicates to me that S/D lacks damage in a way that makes the LB vastly outperform it.

That’s just my experience though, dunno how other people feel about it. All I know is that I have had the LB build stapled onto my alt account for about a week now climbing through the different tiers (it’s now a game or 2 away from plat) and there are games where I just feel shut down on it, like, it has nothing to do with being outplayed and everything to do with an overabundance of mechanics that directly counter mine.

Team compositions like Tempest + Scrapper + DH + Berserker just feel absolutely awful on the LB build. You have to work SO hard just to deal with mechanics, before any player skill even gets factored into it.

‘LB = more damage’ I think comes from the fact that it’s significantly better at +1ing than staff or sword. Everyone knows the whole sit on cliff at Foefire thing, but you can do that on a lot of maps. On Kyhlo you can lock down darn near the entire map. With s/d you need to go all the way to the point (or use staff to give erotic massages to the opponent), and then you lose the point you were holding. So s/d is an in your face weapon set and LB is an opportunistic weapon.

LB also is significantly better at running non-mender amulets. Have a tempest and another druid on your comp? Slap on LB and marauders or paladins and rock out, yet still be able to 1v1 and clean team condis.

I think I’m queuing into a tier now what it really doesn’t matter what my swap set is anymore lol. I feel very “pushed” into kite and support regardless of the build.

And having no Tempest or a team loaded with heavies means I take so much focus fire from duo queues S/D really doesn’t seem to matter (nor would LB, I’m just kiting and supporting with staff and working my kitten off to not die).

A few thoughts of my own…..

Metabattle is just so troublesome. You have always had to read it with a grain of salt. I tried contributing to the site a while back, drafting a build that was competitive for solo queuing…..It got voted down in the test phase with a total of maybe 4 votes? There just isn’t a big enough community on the site and I think the range of skill that those individuals possess means that what goes through vs what doesn’t can be very subjective.

I also am alarmed that the LB build got slapped together so quickly and pushed the S/D build out of meta. Also the Warrior build that got placed in meta? And just because both builds are being used by top streamers even though they aren’t playing in a tournament setting.

The one nice thing I will say however is that all 9 professions are currently represented in the meta. First time I think I’ve ever seen it.

As for LB. LB has the potential to generate a lot of pressure from off point. But there is a lot of counter play available against it. More important I think when you take LB over S/D you sacrifice quite a bit of counter play you have vs opponents. It’s much easier for opposing teams to pressure a LB Druid out of a fight. You are more susceptible to +1s. Melee harassment is more dangerous as well. And while you perhaps fill a damage role on your team, you give up the ability to get a quick decap, which can make a big difference in matches.

Taking Signet of the Wild over Signet of Renewal also lets you fill that damage role on the team, while not giving up any other role. I have played with SotW a bit and found that the added pressure you can provide often helps decide team fights in your favor much faster. The sooner that Chrono has to pop distortion or that DH has to pop his Renewed Focus, the sooner your team takes over. You can then take care of the rest of the map that much sooner, either taking back points that were decapped or focusing on 1v1s or snowballing. SotW works pretty well with S/D also, making it much easier to stand in melee and deal damage without getting stun locked.

However if you get focused by more than 1 condi class……You die. Quickly. Burn Guardians become a real threat instead of a minor nuisance. And in this meta you will at some point get focused by multiple condi classes. Not to mention sometimes you just really need that extra stun break.

So final thought. After playing with SotW a bit, I’m strongly considering bringing Warhorn into a few matches. I think currently having unblockable damage is almost a requirement. Bristleback F2 Unblockable resolves so many fights so much faster. And if you can help your team survive better, as well as kill faster you should be able to secure more wins more frequently. You wouldn’t have to swap out Signet of Renewal, which lets you support your team mates in some pretty big ways. I think long run the deciding factor will end up being whether the added damage from Warhorn makes the added survivability from offhand dagger irrelevant thanks to faster and more kills.

I’ll let you all know how it goes once I get back in game.

I’ve been pretty consistently preferring to run WS for the extra condi clear, barkskin, and shared anguish. I think that comes out ahead of NM, you lose a bit of team support with allies’ aid and PW, but I think the selfish build works better since the druid is often or usually the main target. Also I’m running the slightly non-standard GoE, pet taunt, and wolf, so that more than makes up for allies’ aid. Made it to platinum with WS, thought I’d experiment with NM and dropped 10 matches to plummet down to gold 2.

WS it is for me… infuriating.

I’ve swapped almost entirely to longbow now and have started playing super defensively.

I’ve given up the concept of point bunkering entirely for the season. Without the ability to stab on every engagement and with necros eating through the boons, periphery/support and dueling is what I feel most comfortable with now, and the playstyle swap has helped a lot I think (though I do have to rely on the competence of my team more).

I’ve made an edit to the OP to reflect the progress of the discussion.

Fluffball.8307:

I’ve been pretty consistently preferring to run WS for the extra condi clear, barkskin, and shared anguish. I think that comes out ahead of NM, you lose a bit of team support with allies’ aid and PW, but I think the selfish build works better since the druid is often or usually the main target. Also I’m running the slightly non-standard GoE, pet taunt, and wolf, so that more than makes up for allies’ aid. Made it to platinum with WS, thought I’d experiment with NM and dropped 10 matches to plummet down to gold 2.

WS it is for me… infuriating.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I would be interested in your builds (fluff/JC). Do you guys ever play solo que? and would you consider lb for solo que?

Thanks

EnderzShadow.2506:

Fluffball.8307:

I’ve been pretty consistently preferring to run WS for the extra condi clear, barkskin, and shared anguish. I think that comes out ahead of NM, you lose a bit of team support with allies’ aid and PW, but I think the selfish build works better since the druid is often or usually the main target. Also I’m running the slightly non-standard GoE, pet taunt, and wolf, so that more than makes up for allies’ aid. Made it to platinum with WS, thought I’d experiment with NM and dropped 10 matches to plummet down to gold 2.

WS it is for me… infuriating.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but I would be interested in your builds (fluff/JC). Do you guys ever play solo que? and would you consider lb for solo que?

Thanks

I’m plat 1 on my alt and plat 2 on this account, pure solo queue.

I’m on my phone atm so I won’t be able to create link pages but currently my 2 main builds are:

• 1) Menders with Leadership Runes. Staff/LB with Air/Blood and Agility/Leeching. Heal as One/Protect Me/Signet of Renewal/Signet of Stone/Strength of Pack. NM322, BM332, Druid113.

• 2) I mainly only use this build now if I’m going to have to be 1v1ing evasion thieves, but even then it’ll get attritioned out and I’ve been finding I can just no longer carry people with it, but:
  Menders with Soldier Runes. Staff/Sword Dagger with Air/Blood and Energy/Leeching. Same utilities as above. Same traits except: NM312

This is what I’ve mostly settled on.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJAWTnUqA1CiVsCOsActgFMBDumuTLqNLrBQA45GsqiclI9KA-TJBFABAcIAI4KA02DAo99HAA

Nothing too ground breaking, there isn’t a ton of variety possible. I left the amulet blank because I switch based on both team’s comp. Menders is my default but if there is a lot of power on the other team and we have a tempest, I’ll go paladins. If there isn’t enough damage on my team I’ll go mauarders. I can’t multiclass in PvP so I just switch roles.

I also switch SoS with SoR based on the enemy comp.

Like jcbroe I’ve pretty much entirely abandoned the s/d and fight smaller scale fights or from the fringes. I can’t beat a thief with s/d, but with LB I do fairly well, and if I’m focused in a team fight nothing will save me except stealth.

I’m only plat1ish (gold 2 at the moment because I messed up my build experimenting) so it’s not like my build is an expert opinion.

Well ignore anything I’ve written in this thread. I went from a solid win percent in platinum to free falling 300 points over 2 days. I have no idea what’s going on, but I’m like 3 and 20 over the past couple days. I’m playing against the worst players I’ve ever seen all the way down in gold 1, hammer revs and p/p thieves and and bunker tempests that I obliterate in seconds, yet keep losing. I don’t believe in blaming teammates, so I am at a loss… My last game I was 2v1ing in a dang maruader amulet…

No real point, I just am incredibly annoyed and wanted to whine.

I can’t make up my mind (yet again).

The sheer amount of warriors I’m queued with atm makes S/D feel almost necessary. Dunno.

I’m really missing the Crusader Amulet this season. I hope it comes back in a PvP balanced form (1050 Power/Healing Power, 560 Ferocity/Toughness). I think that the GS with that stat split and the Call of the Wild buffs against the current metagame would be the most optimal build.

The blocking and constant stability….. sigh. I hate being rendered ineffective without skill even being a factor.

jcbroe.4329:

I can’t make up my mind (yet again).

The sheer amount of warriors I’m queued with atm makes S/D feel almost necessary. Dunno.

That happens every season. They start out with good balance and are fun because everyone is playing their favorite class, then eventually people switch to the cheesiest possible build and you get a thousand bunker mesmers or necros or revs or warriors. If thieves were stackable this would be the season of thieves, but warriors are the next best build.

Yeah now that every team I’m up against is some combination of Tempest/proc Reaper (perma chilled/crippled so kiting is rough)/DH/Berserker/Scrapper/evasion thief/pew pew Druid…..

….I’m right back to S/D.

Here’s to hoping ANet rebalances the sheer amount of projectile hate.

Oh how I miss gs/Staff when it was viable.

Legacy of the Foefire-Stealing far 1v1, knocking down the gate, tanking almost any class, killing the Lord.

Then the Lord got buffed
We got nerfed.
Other classes got buffed.
QQ

As long as you have staff I think your weapon swap is not super important. GS still works.

The other day I beat a competent s/d druid when I had LB equipped because I used a lot of staff.

EnderzShadow.2506:

Oh how I miss gs/Staff when it was viable.

Legacy of the Foefire-Stealing far 1v1, knocking down the gate, tanking almost any class, killing the Lord.

Then the Lord got buffed
We got nerfed.
Other classes got buffed.
QQ

I use GS/Staff dedicated build, for the last 2 seasons and its very viable.

Fluffball.8307:

As long as you have staff I think your weapon swap is not super important. GS still works.

The other day I beat a competent s/d druid when I had LB equipped because I used a lot of staff.

I am trying to get better with the staff so would you mind telling me how the staff made a difference fighting that druid?

Thank you,

Anela

Staff heals you on the autoattack when you heal your pet with it, and I put staff 2 on him on recharge and stayed close to him. Most people forget staff 2 exists, but it’s actually a solid skill. When he swapped to bristleback I used staff 5. I just outsustained him. S/d is great for dodging important stuff, but there is nothing important to dodge on staff. When he swapped back to staff I used my CC.

Fluffball.8307:

Staff heals you on the autoattack when you heal your pet with it, and I put staff 2 on him on recharge and stayed close to him. Most people forget staff 2 exists, but it’s actually a solid skill. When he swapped to bristleback I used staff 5. I just outsustained him. S/d is great for dodging important stuff, but there is nothing important to dodge on staff. When he swapped back to staff I used my CC.

I’m so glad I asked! I didn’t know you could do that! (healing your pet would heal you) I have so much to learn. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

Anela

Actively healing your pet (or anyone on your team) by any means will heal you.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Live_Vicariously

Fluffball.8307:

Actively healing your pet (or anyone on your team) by any means will heal you.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Live_Vicariously

Thank you. I don’t mean to sound so ignorant but I just recently started using a staff. I am one of those stubborn people who believe Rangers should use bows and I have been doing my best to do that, to little avail, so I thought I would try other things. Right now, I am working on learning the staff with sword/war horn.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I am really enjoying the different opinions on the different builds.

Anela

The gameplay is nothing special and I never planned on linking any of my youtube videos to the forums because it’s just silliness and entertainment I share with my guild.

Disclaimer aside, I put together a bunch of clips from the previous season and offseason of myself using different non-bow variations of the metabuild: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNx73qSEdhE

For any of the people it might help.

Anela.3867:

Thank you. I don’t mean to sound so ignorant but I just recently started using a staff. I am one of those stubborn people who believe Rangers should use bows and I have been doing my best to do that, to little avail, so I thought I would try other things. Right now, I am working on learning the staff with sword/war horn.

I find it annoying how good the staff is. 4/5 skills heal you or allies, and the 5th one is supporty as well. AND it has movement on it. AND it generates AF without even trying. It really pigeon holes us, any build that doesn’t use staff is starting out at a disadvantage even if it’s a druid build.

jcbroe.4329:

The gameplay is nothing special and I never planned on linking any of my youtube videos to the forums because it’s just silliness and entertainment I share with my guild.

Disclaimer aside, I put together a bunch of clips from the previous season and offseason of myself using different non-bow variations of the metabuild: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNx73qSEdhE

For any of the people it might help.

Thank you. I enjoyed that very much.

Anela