Petition: L.Bow+S.Bow to pierce by default

Petition: L.Bow+S.Bow to pierce by default

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Posted by: Detharos.3157

Detharos.3157

Hey everyone. For a long time now as WvW frequenter, I’ve been rolling on a full berserker built 30 Skirmishing/30 Marksman/10 Survival(prolly soon to change to 10 nature) ranger. Despite criticisms I’m sure that would be out there for the berserker gear set up, I’ve found my own ways to make the build work relatively well while running Longbow and greatsword. Recently I was thinking about taking some out of marksman, and build things differently to sacrifice a little damage for a little more survivability. The only real problem I have with this is I feel like I’m absolutely forced to put on the piercing trait which is really limiting my chances at build diversity with this gear set up. I’ve put a lot of time and money into my current exotic gear, and while I’m open to spending more time farming other gear sets to try new builds/different weapon combos in active WvW.. really I still can see no justification for any ranger being forced to roll 20 points of marksman just to do such a basic functionality. In terms of game mechanics, not only does this limit us a lot in build diversity but you really DO HAVE TO for the most part invest in piercing to avoid problems like obstructed arrow shots. I can only speak for the longbow, since its always been my style to roll with a max range weapon and a close range weapon… but really, the longbow simply DOES NOT WORK WITHOUT PIERCE. Without it, simply rolling with a melee build where melee weapons that can sweep an entire area of attack thus hitting multiple foes within the weapon range, and this without even needing to target a foe.. seems much more appealing. (An unfortunate trait that ranged weapons lack, meaning the only way to hit a stealthed foe is to swap to a melee weapon and whack the air anyways which already limits bows in comparison. Adding further to its weaknesses, especially in the stealth and culling rich environment of WvW where picking the right target to get the most out of your piercing arrows can sometimes be a little more frustrating than expected.)

And on that matter, wouldn’t it make more sense in game mechanics to be able to blindly shoot your bow and have the arrows go the full distance, just as you can blindly swipe with a sword? Ie. shooting a 1200 range shot with no target selected in the general direction you are facing. A linear, 1200 range AoE if you will. As it stands bows are near useless in comparison to melee weapons against stealthed foes due to the necessity for a target to be selected, outside the AoE skills.)

And to add to my bitter feelings in this, I made an engineer recently, and I couldn’t help but notice that their rifle shots pierce by default.

I mean.. really? Now here’s where I hang on the “real world style dynamics” argument of things.(Assuming there is one.) Correct me if I’m wrong, but from a “real world logic” stand point (the only possible argument I could perceive against piercing arrows vs. gun shots); That 1600-1700s Flintlock or whatever-style pellet shooting age gun weaponry similar to what appears to be the standard of guns here in GW2 did not have much penetrating/piercing power. I don’t think you could shoot guns from the 1600s and expect the projectile to pierce multiple people were they lined up. Contrast that to the longbow/arrow of the English and French wars, where in the ever going arms race of English weaponry vs. French armor, the English had bows firing arrows capable of penetrating some pretty crazy dense, thick French armor. Bow and arrows of that age were designed for ARMOR PENETRATING/PIERCING power in the context of the war against heavily armored opponents at least. Which may not be the same as piercing through whole bodies, yet still… why can’t our bows in GW2 be designed as funcitonal for war as the bows of the real world were? Especially when it makes so much more sense in game mechanics?

Dathaul, 80 Melee Ranger
Ferguson’s Crossing server.

(edited by Detharos.3157)

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Posted by: Detharos.3157

Detharos.3157

Continued…

What’s my point in all the above? My apologies for ranting but well, there simply is no reason or no logic to justify be it real world OR game mechanics that a ranger should have to access a trait to get such a basic and necessary function as piercing on ranged attacks, while so many other classes seem to enjoy the benefits of piercing attacks on certain ranged weaponry(Engineer rifle, mesmer great sword shots I think also have that ability)

So basically, please A.net hear this call and make our bows pierce by default. And replace that marksman trait with something better. And if you’re willing, as a secondary request, being able to shoot your arrows to their maximum distance in in a direct line in front of you WITHOUT NEEDING A TARGET would probably help in lining up our shots and giving us greater use/value in the often laggy, chaotic environment of world vs. world where zerg/population is the strongest trait of a high tiered server. Cause as it stands, people liking your class just because you can use guard to send your pets up walls, something which will likely be labelled unintended game mechanics and removed anyways… yeah give us something to work with here. I think this is the most reasonable/non volatile/game breaking change that could be applied to rangers atm. It wouldn’t be a buff, it wouldn’t be a nerf, it would be a FIX.

Now, my hope is that all of you rangers who read this request for a basic and sensible mechanic being added to our bows would agree and sign this petition/show your support.

Dathaul, 80 Melee Ranger
Ferguson’s Crossing server.

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Posted by: awe extender.1908

awe extender.1908

+1 to pierce by default!

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Posted by: Linguistically Inept.6583

Linguistically Inept.6583

+1

id also like to see an increased combo finisher chance on longbow1 (considering how slow it shoots) but thats a different issue

Desolation: 80 ranger [Nightwither], 80 necro [Dusk Grimsoul]
80 warr [Blaze Steelsoul], 80 ele [Blaze Nightstrike], 80 mesmer [Grim Shatterwhirl]
80 guard [Dusk Grimlight], 80 engi [Flintgear]

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Posted by: Dantaeus Heardt.5730

Dantaeus Heardt.5730

Yeah this is a great idea!

Dantaeus X Heardt Ranger Lvl 80
Zhaitans Tears Guild[ TWS ] NSP

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Posted by: HoboLyra.4908

HoboLyra.4908

Pierce by default makes the skill tree trait useless then. =/

-Tarnished Coast-
Obsidian Spire OS / EXS

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Posted by: Rannulf.9417

Rannulf.9417

LB should pierce by dafault and have 1500 range by default instead of having us trait it. And replace those traits with something like does 30% damage when the target is below 50% health.

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Posted by: Lorelei.3918

Lorelei.3918

Hobo……obviously the trait would be removed if we got the skill innately.

Also BIG +1

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Posted by: Sina.9208

Sina.9208

+1 It’s sad that we need to carry this trait all the time.

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Posted by: samanosuke asakura.6240

samanosuke asakura.6240

i agree we are rangers but everyone has same base range. that so lame gives us 1500 range and arrow pierce and make pet less squishy too

Honour and Pride and Devotion

Samanosuke Asakura Far shiver peaks

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Posted by: Lokheit.7943

Lokheit.7943

i agree we are rangers but everyone has same base range. that so lame gives us 1500 range and arrow pierce and make pet less squishy too

You know the term Ranger in this context isn’t for “range” right? In other languages the profession is translated with words closer to “Forestal Guard”. Think of Ranger in Texas…. Chuck Norris most famous move is a kick which is melee. The Power Rangers were melee guys too :P

Also… 1500 range would be insane. Shortbow has 300 more range than Thief Shortbow and Longbow has 300 more range than Warrior Longbow. 1500 for all skills would be overkill in many contexts.

I agree that Ranger needs A LOT of help, but 1500 range on anything spammable is game breaking when there are professions that CAN’T auto-attack at more than 900 with any weapon.

(edited by Lokheit.7943)

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Posted by: Dwyvar.8034

Dwyvar.8034

I love you, and your brilliant idea. +1 my good sir.

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Posted by: Linguistically Inept.6583

Linguistically Inept.6583

i agree we are rangers but everyone has same base range. that so lame gives us 1500 range and arrow pierce and make pet less squishy too

You know the term Ranger in this context isn’t for “range” right? In other languages the profession is translated with words closer to “Forestal Guard”. Think of Ranger in Texas…. Chuck Norris most famous move is a kick which is melee. The Power Rangers were melee guys too :P

Also… 1500 range would be insane. Shortbow has 300 more range than Thief Shortbow and Longbow has 300 more range than Warrior Longbow. 1500 for all skills would be overkill in many contexts.

I agree that Ranger needs A LOT of help, but 1500 range on anything spammable is game breaking when there are professions that CAN’T auto-attack at more than 900 with any weapon.

the only class that cant auto attack at 1200 range is thief (who have numerous ways of getting closer; so it doesnt matter)

-also; any decent warrior using longbow takes the trait to buff it up to 1200 range (same as rifle) as it has some pretty nice hidden effects http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stronger_Bowstrings

1500 range isnt insane; most longbow rangers take http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eagle_Eye anyway (your reply indicated; to me; that you werent aware that almost every longbow ranger has 1500 range) – it could be changed so that longbow is default 1500 and the trait gives 10% longbow damage instead which i dont believe would be OP (though not sure about harpoon… i tend to stay out of water)

*edit; just checked wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Blast (i actually already knew about this one but needed to check its name for another reply i made)
both have 1500
longbow will not get many attacks in inbetween 1200/1500 range on an advancing player

Desolation: 80 ranger [Nightwither], 80 necro [Dusk Grimsoul]
80 warr [Blaze Steelsoul], 80 ele [Blaze Nightstrike], 80 mesmer [Grim Shatterwhirl]
80 guard [Dusk Grimlight], 80 engi [Flintgear]

(edited by Linguistically Inept.6583)

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Posted by: Pneg.7302

Pneg.7302

Piercing Arrows are already causing aggro issues in dungeons as it is. If they were to make it default I’d have to abandon using bows for that sole reason.

At least ask for it be toggleable or something.

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Posted by: Unimaginative Guy.1307

Unimaginative Guy.1307

I agree with your proposal but I feel I must point out that your facts about piercing are incorrect. Flesh is EXTREMELY difficult to fully pierce with an arrow for a multitude of reasons, one being that the arrow projectile is very large. An arrow is great for killing but it is nearly impossible to pierce through an unarmored human body with it. Furthermore, the arrow heads are tapered which maximizes damage but will eventually stop the arrow in the human body. On the other hand, Flintlocks from the 1600s fired a .8 caliber round that could easily pierce up to 2 human bodies completely.

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Posted by: Substance E.4852

Substance E.4852

I agree with your proposal but I feel I must point out that your facts about piercing are incorrect. Flesh is EXTREMELY difficult to fully pierce with an arrow for a multitude of reasons, one being that the arrow projectile is very large. An arrow is great for killing but it is nearly impossible to pierce through an unarmored human body with it. Furthermore, the arrow heads are tapered which maximizes damage but will eventually stop the arrow in the human body. On the other hand, Flintlocks from the 1600s fired a .8 caliber round that could easily pierce up to 2 human bodies completely.

I can be set on fire and hit with a sword the size of surfboard and be completely fine. Real world physics don’t really have much of a place in a fantasy game like this.

Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…

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Posted by: Arekai.5698

Arekai.5698

They should fix the Ranger by default.

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Posted by: Casey.9687

Casey.9687

+1 to this genius man! Pierce by default!!!

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Posted by: Casey.9687

Casey.9687

I agree with your proposal but I feel I must point out that your facts about piercing are incorrect. Flesh is EXTREMELY difficult to fully pierce with an arrow for a multitude of reasons, one being that the arrow projectile is very large. An arrow is great for killing but it is nearly impossible to pierce through an unarmored human body with it. Furthermore, the arrow heads are tapered which maximizes damage but will eventually stop the arrow in the human body. On the other hand, Flintlocks from the 1600s fired a .8 caliber round that could easily pierce up to 2 human bodies completely.

In a game where we can control if we wanna take half damage from a huge fall or not, where we can last underwater forever, where we use bows and rifles with unlimited ammo, where we just happen to pull axes and picks out of thin air to mine or chop. Pretty sure theres alot more impossible things in this game then a arrow piercing throw a human body….and they already have arrows piercing throw bodies as a trait…Anet always making the impossible possible.

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Posted by: Zorby.8236

Zorby.8236

I don’t understand…Piercing Arrows is one of the good traits. I don’t see any problem with it as Master trait…That’s why you want it on default, but that’d leave only bad traits left…

No, needing to trait for pierce is a good imo, and if any other class has it on default they should need to trait for it as well.

One thing that I would appreciate though is if they merged Eagle Eye and Piercing Arrows, because it’s not worth spending 30 points into that traitline for both of ’em.

~This is the internet, my (or your) opinion doesn’t matter~

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Posted by: Bran.7425

Bran.7425

More of the issue of traits are how most effect the pet, but not the ranger and most of the ones that effect the ranger are weaker version of what other professions are given.

So if Anet wants to balance around the pet being up and active then they will have to re-balance how the pet interacts with the world. Better to make the ranger able to stand alone and have the pet be a mechanic that improves the ranger’s performance instead of the ranger being there to buff the pet.

Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.

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Posted by: Taym.8326

Taym.8326

More of the issue of traits are how most effect the pet, but not the ranger and most of the ones that effect the ranger are weaker version of what other professions are given.

So if Anet wants to balance around the pet being up and active then they will have to re-balance how the pet interacts with the world. Better to make the ranger able to stand alone and have the pet be a mechanic that improves the ranger’s performance instead of the ranger being there to buff the pet.

Or how most of our survivability is tied in with sacrificing the pet (Protect me, Signet of Renewal, *Empathetic Bond) I would gladly take a reliable higher cooldown invuln similar to endure pain that does not play on the “Its a ranger so we have to put the pet somewhere in the ability”. The design of the class is too enamored with the pet, which is our class mechanic that should compliment the ranger’s strength not be a hinderance. Ranger is the only class that can have their class mechanic negatively impact their performance and should be re-evaluated, taking the pet survivability into account.

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Posted by: Dante Dragonhand.2538

Dante Dragonhand.2538

Piercing by default would be nice but would start the kittening by thieves and warriors. I say just add it to eagle eye or quick draw to be on par with those, would make 30 mm a bit better since you could take that and remorseless which is actually pretty good.

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Posted by: WolfHeart.1256

WolfHeart.1256

If nothing else, at least add it as one of the passive traits. Although I’d love to have this by default, goes without saying for any ranger I believe.

[WOLF] Howlerin || Seafarer’s Rest
“They say you are what you eat.
Which is funny ‘cause I don’t remember eating a f.ing legend”

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Posted by: Casey.9687

Casey.9687

Give us piercing by default and trade in a faster projectile speed trait to make our projectiles even faster.

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Posted by: CodeName.7495

CodeName.7495

+1. Pierce by default

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Posted by: Engels.8537

Engels.8537

Even when I’m using piercing arrow + SB right now, and I would looooove to save those 20 points, I think it’s ok as it is.
There are a lot of cool traits other professions have, that are directly related to that professions, and everyone would have the right to want them by default.

But I agree with this:

And if you’re willing, as a secondary request, being able to shoot your arrows to their maximum distance in in a direct line in front of you WITHOUT NEEDING A TARGET.

It still would be VERY ineffective, but at least LB-SB builds would have something to do after they used barrage.
Right now if you wanna have a little chance (close to 0) of hitting an stealthed thief with a bow you need to place the camera reaaaal low and autoattack, because if you are autoattacking a thief who is in front of you and he stealths, you start shooting arrows at the ground. That’s lame.

Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game

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Posted by: irrimn.3192

irrimn.3192

I don’t really mind the fact that I have to trait into piercing arrows since that means if I didn’t want them to, I could just swap the trait out. I DO think that LB should be 1500 range BY DEAFULT because LONGBOW (LONG. BOW.) shoots the same range as SHORTBOW (SHORT. BOW.) which is obviously wonky due to the fact that irl a longbow shoots farther and with more force. Why do they shoot the same distance unless traited? That doesn’t make sense. Second off, longbow’s damage takes a HUGE hit if you’re too close to your enemy, making the longbow nearly useless in most situations anyways! —which by the way makes ZERO sense since in real life, a bow would do MORE damage the CLOSER you got, NOT the other way around. So, if they wanted to FIX the longbow, make it have 1500 range by default, piece targets without being traited, and flip the damage scale so farther away does less damage, and close does more damage. In this way, it’d be a risk/reward scenario about if you want to be farther and do less damage by be safer, or get closer and do more damage but potentially take more damage as a result.

Overall though, I have to agree. This would massively increase the viability of rangers as a class!

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Posted by: Detharos.3157

Detharos.3157

Greetings all. After reading concerns about the threats of pierce in dungeons, and the desire to have it toggled, I have another suggestion/idea of how it could be managed. A functional item could be made to fit in the unavailable offhand weapon slot when the bow is equipped: arrow heads. There could be different arrows equipped alongside the bow to determine its firing properties. (Ie. Piercing arrow head, Standard(default) arrow head, Ricochet arrow head (bounce to 3 targets like the axe), or other such arrow head equipment to change the properties of how the longbow arrows behave when they hit their mark.

These could be purchasable items available to all rangers over time (In all likelihood you’d start with a default arrow head and have to obtain others through karma purchase or some other method.)

This would probably be the easiest way to default pierce and make room for new traits on our bows whilst still enabling pierce to be “turned on or off” simultaneously.

Now, while arrow heads sound like a generic thing, I’d prefer them to be ranger specific if implemented though. Or at least for the piercing arrow heads to be limited to rangers only. The GW2 statement of what a ranger is made it clear that in addition to the presence of the pet, rangers in this game are supposed to excel at use of bow and arrow.. its pretty disheartening if a thief can use a bow more skillfully/with greater ingenuity than a ranger.

Dathaul, 80 Melee Ranger
Ferguson’s Crossing server.

(edited by Detharos.3157)

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Posted by: Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

-1. SB trap rangers are strong enough as is. Adding piercing arrows to the default while still being able to trait for full trap uses and survivability would make the class too strong.

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Posted by: Kormona.7156

Kormona.7156

+1. Pierce by default

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Posted by: Sollith.3502

Sollith.3502

hmmm… I think it’s fine as it is; an optional trait. There are other ways they should change the traits and abilities than in this way.

Eagle eye should boost the longbow range a bit more for instance (up to 1800 range for instance).

A slight “crippling” effect with the longbow when a target is hit in the front (i.e. running at you) kind of like the harpies in Fractals might be a good base to start playing off of for ideas for other optional traits or something.

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Posted by: iCryptik.1496

iCryptik.1496

/signed

I think this should be done.

Alshazzär
Tarnished Coast [TC]

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Posted by: Meryt.9823

Meryt.9823

Wall of text , but basicly +1 as is essential to shoot max damage into zergs.
rolling with30.20.10.10,0 LB/SB
for wvwvw survivability doesnt count for anything as you’re usually killed by 5 or more enemies ganking you and usually locked down by stuns etc. unable to respond.
Range , speed and evasion OUGHT to be our strengths. In practice they fail us too often.

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.

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Posted by: Meryt.9823

Meryt.9823

Greetings all. After reading concerns about the threats of pierce in dungeons, and the desire to have it toggled, I have another suggestion/idea of how it could be managed. A functional item could be made to fit in the unavailable offhand weapon slot when the bow is equipped: arrow heads. There could be different arrows equipped alongside the bow to determine its firing properties. (Ie. Piercing arrow head, Standard(default) arrow head, Ricochet arrow head (bounce to 3 targets like the axe), or other such arrow head equipment to change the properties of how the longbow arrows behave when they hit their mark.

These could be purchasable items available to all rangers over time (In all likelihood you’d start with a default arrow head and have to obtain others through karma purchase or some other method.)

This would probably be the easiest way to default pierce and make room for new traits on our bows whilst still enabling pierce to be “turned on or off” simultaneously.

Now, while arrow heads sound like a generic thing, I’d prefer them to be ranger specific if implemented though. Or at least for the piercing arrow heads to be limited to rangers only. The GW2 statement of what a ranger is made it clear that in addition to the presence of the pet, rangers in this game are supposed to excel at use of bow and arrow.. its pretty disheartening if a thief can use a bow more skillfully/with greater ingenuity than a ranger.

This I like. I’ve always thought a choice of arrows/heads e.g. Bodkin = piercing, Hunting= improved range and accuracy, Fire= less range but burning D.O.T.
I also think arrows should have 50% chance to stun or cripple.

Also… 1500 range would be insane. Shortbow has 300 more range than Thief Shortbow and Longbow has 300 more range than Warrior Longbow. 1500 for all skills would be overkill in many contexts.

Can you run 700m in 2 seconds? No, but in game an opponent can close this distance in that time.
So now tell me which is overkill!
(PS current RL archery world record is 500m by Zak Crawford.)

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster.

(edited by Meryt.9823)

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Posted by: BroScientist.9875

BroScientist.9875

+1 to merge eagle eye and piercing arrows.

Although, don’t mind arrowhead idea.

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Posted by: Dante Dragonhand.2538

Dante Dragonhand.2538

Greetings all. After reading concerns about the threats of pierce in dungeons, and the desire to have it toggled, I have another suggestion/idea of how it could be managed. A functional item could be made to fit in the unavailable offhand weapon slot when the bow is equipped: arrow heads. There could be different arrows equipped alongside the bow to determine its firing properties. (Ie. Piercing arrow head, Standard(default) arrow head, Ricochet arrow head (bounce to 3 targets like the axe), or other such arrow head equipment to change the properties of how the longbow arrows behave when they hit their mark.

These could be purchasable items available to all rangers over time (In all likelihood you’d start with a default arrow head and have to obtain others through karma purchase or some other method.)

This would probably be the easiest way to default pierce and make room for new traits on our bows whilst still enabling pierce to be “turned on or off” simultaneously.

Now, while arrow heads sound like a generic thing, I’d prefer them to be ranger specific if implemented though. Or at least for the piercing arrow heads to be limited to rangers only. The GW2 statement of what a ranger is made it clear that in addition to the presence of the pet, rangers in this game are supposed to excel at use of bow and arrow.. its pretty disheartening if a thief can use a bow more skillfully/with greater ingenuity than a ranger.

Idl ove an offhand for a bow, would make sense too. They should do that for all 2h weps.

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Posted by: Dante Dragonhand.2538

Dante Dragonhand.2538

-1. SB trap rangers are strong enough as is. Adding piercing arrows to the default while still being able to trait for full trap uses and survivability would make the class too strong.

LOL no it wouldnt. Get lost until u learn the class. Even trap rangers while strong arent as strong as caltrops thieves.

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Posted by: Dante Dragonhand.2538

Dante Dragonhand.2538

Greetings all. After reading concerns about the threats of pierce in dungeons, and the desire to have it toggled, I have another suggestion/idea of how it could be managed. A functional item could be made to fit in the unavailable offhand weapon slot when the bow is equipped: arrow heads. There could be different arrows equipped alongside the bow to determine its firing properties. (Ie. Piercing arrow head, Standard(default) arrow head, Ricochet arrow head (bounce to 3 targets like the axe), or other such arrow head equipment to change the properties of how the longbow arrows behave when they hit their mark.

These could be purchasable items available to all rangers over time (In all likelihood you’d start with a default arrow head and have to obtain others through karma purchase or some other method.)

This would probably be the easiest way to default pierce and make room for new traits on our bows whilst still enabling pierce to be “turned on or off” simultaneously.

Now, while arrow heads sound like a generic thing, I’d prefer them to be ranger specific if implemented though. Or at least for the piercing arrow heads to be limited to rangers only. The GW2 statement of what a ranger is made it clear that in addition to the presence of the pet, rangers in this game are supposed to excel at use of bow and arrow.. its pretty disheartening if a thief can use a bow more skillfully/with greater ingenuity than a ranger.

This I like. I’ve always thought a choice of arrows/heads e.g. Bodkin = piercing, Hunting= improved range and accuracy, Fire= less range but burning D.O.T.
I also think arrows should have 50% chance to stun or cripple.

Also… 1500 range would be insane. Shortbow has 300 more range than Thief Shortbow and Longbow has 300 more range than Warrior Longbow. 1500 for all skills would be overkill in many contexts.

Can you run 700m in 2 seconds? No, but in game an opponent can close this distance in that time.
So now tell me which is overkill!
(PS current RL archery world record is 500m by Zak Crawford.)

Yea it wouldnt be overkill, 1800 range isnt as much as people think it is. That extra 300 range is like 1 extra second of running towards the ranger.

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Posted by: Arekai.5698

Arekai.5698

Even if you gave it a range of 2000 on every skill, 90% would still miss as all you have to do to evade is press a or d a bit or blink or rush or stealth or mistform or everything every class can do.
Make it homing or something.

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Posted by: Anthrage.2519

Anthrage.2519

A very firm “No!” to merging Piecing Arrows and Eagle Eye. Here’s why.

The Auto-attack for Longbow is such that it’s damage scales up with distance to the target. Eagle Eye’s added range is bugged in that auto-attacking does not work between 1200 and 1500. See that bug demonstrated here.

Piercing Arrows causes the arrows from all of your bow attacks to hit any targets that happen to be in the path of your arrows, between yourself and your selected target. With Eagle Eye, that’s 1500 of range to work with – you can fit a lot of targets in there. Great right? Well, not exactly.

What Piercing Arrows does due to this bug, is recalculate the damage due to ‘distance to target’ for the Longbow Auto-attack, based not on how far away YOU are from said target, but how far the last mobile the arrow passed through is from said target. In other words, it nerfs your damage on the Auto-attack. Badly. See that in action here.

In combination – the lack of LB Auto-attack on the extra range, and the damage nerf from Piercing Arrows – these two effects are a match made in hell. Since you cannot auto-attack at max range, you must continually spam 1…which makes lining up, or not lining up, your targets for Piercing Arrow, more of an issue. Being unable to choose one or the other only, would not be a good thing under these circumstances.

Even worse, it would make it possible for an enemy to reduce your damage to a distant target at will – a cannon, an arrow cart etc – simply by standing in front of it. This may make sense from a physics perspective, but it is definitely not desirable, especially if you cannot avoid it due to the merging.

What we DO need, are not modifications or additions to the existing skills and powers, but FIXES to the ones we have. Axe skill 2, Splitblade, is another example…it does not use it’s modified physical damage value for attacks, but only does the unmodified damage and bleed effect hugely horrible thing given it represents such a large portion of mainhand 1-handed ranged damage. These two bugs – in fact the majority of the Ranger weapon bugs – are simply absurd, and it is more absurd they still have not been fixed…

Or commented on in what…4 months? I would rather start there, before making changes that would make things worse, not better, because of existing bugs.

Ranger Anthrage Stormrider – Sanguine Wild Guild [SW]
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Posted by: Engels.8537

Engels.8537

-1. SB trap rangers are strong enough as is. Adding piercing arrows to the default while still being able to trait for full trap uses and survivability would make the class too strong.

Lol I agree, but you don’t see many trap builds outside spvp anyway. Maybe if the buff is only for WvW/PvE uhmmm but I still don’t think it’s needed.

Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game

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Posted by: DeadlySynz.3471

DeadlySynz.3471

While I love this idea, I don’t think it’s going to fly. It’d certainly save a lot of headaches while traiting.

I do believe though that the LB’s auto-attack should cause vulnerability and the “3” skill should be turned into something else like a sniper shot, or an extreme piercing shot.

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Posted by: Infernia.9847

Infernia.9847

Maybe not by default but by placing it lower on the trait list it would alleviate the allocation headaches when ppl want to trait for something other than LB/SB.
I personally like the LB/GS but have not found a viable solution for the two. Instead I use LB/Sword + warhorn. I know if I switched to LB/SB I could be more effective. I constantly switch from giving myself the extra 20% for swords back to Eagle eye for the LB.

Honestly if they clean up the traits and make them a little more viable for different builds there wouldn’t be a need to have this by default. And I just won’t mention the pet issues even if they do tie in with traiting.

Blackgate : Level 80 Ranger, Necro, Guardian, Warrior
Devs: Trait Challenge Issued

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Posted by: Avandor.5743

Avandor.5743

Greetings all. After reading concerns about the threats of pierce in dungeons, and the desire to have it toggled, I have another suggestion/idea of how it could be managed. A functional item could be made to fit in the unavailable offhand weapon slot when the bow is equipped: arrow heads. There could be different arrows equipped alongside the bow to determine its firing properties. (Ie. Piercing arrow head, Standard(default) arrow head, Ricochet arrow head (bounce to 3 targets like the axe), or other such arrow head equipment to change the properties of how the longbow arrows behave when they hit their mark.

These could be purchasable items available to all rangers over time (In all likelihood you’d start with a default arrow head and have to obtain others through karma purchase or some other method.)

This would probably be the easiest way to default pierce and make room for new traits on our bows whilst still enabling pierce to be “turned on or off” simultaneously.

Now, while arrow heads sound like a generic thing, I’d prefer them to be ranger specific if implemented though. Or at least for the piercing arrow heads to be limited to rangers only. The GW2 statement of what a ranger is made it clear that in addition to the presence of the pet, rangers in this game are supposed to excel at use of bow and arrow.. its pretty disheartening if a thief can use a bow more skillfully/with greater ingenuity than a ranger.

+1

80 Human Druid of Piken
Stomp for Píken [PS]

Petition: L.Bow+S.Bow to pierce by default

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Posted by: Anthrage.2519

Anthrage.2519

Excellent idea – well done!

Greetings all. After reading concerns about the threats of pierce in dungeons, and the desire to have it toggled, I have another suggestion/idea of how it could be managed. A functional item could be made to fit in the unavailable offhand weapon slot when the bow is equipped: arrow heads. There could be different arrows equipped alongside the bow to determine its firing properties. (Ie. Piercing arrow head, Standard(default) arrow head, Ricochet arrow head (bounce to 3 targets like the axe), or other such arrow head equipment to change the properties of how the longbow arrows behave when they hit their mark.

These could be purchasable items available to all rangers over time (In all likelihood you’d start with a default arrow head and have to obtain others through karma purchase or some other method.)

This would probably be the easiest way to default pierce and make room for new traits on our bows whilst still enabling pierce to be “turned on or off” simultaneously.

Now, while arrow heads sound like a generic thing, I’d prefer them to be ranger specific if implemented though. Or at least for the piercing arrow heads to be limited to rangers only. The GW2 statement of what a ranger is made it clear that in addition to the presence of the pet, rangers in this game are supposed to excel at use of bow and arrow.. its pretty disheartening if a thief can use a bow more skillfully/with greater ingenuity than a ranger.

Ranger Anthrage Stormrider – Sanguine Wild Guild [SW]
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Petition: L.Bow+S.Bow to pierce by default

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Posted by: Infernia.9847

Infernia.9847

^^That would be a very viable solution. I like it too.

Blackgate : Level 80 Ranger, Necro, Guardian, Warrior
Devs: Trait Challenge Issued

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Posted by: Dardamaniac.1295

Dardamaniac.1295

Now now you guys…piercing will obvious make the weapons more viable and certainly we dont want this..We will dominate in pvp,imagine the disapoinment that other classes will have,it will be a huge complainment list in every profession forum.Its so unbalanced…

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Posted by: Anthrage.2519

Anthrage.2519

No, it will not. It is bugged…it will have more negative effect than positive. We need fixes before we start modifying things any further…

Now now you guys…piercing will obvious make the weapons more viable and certainly we dont want this..We will dominate in pvp,imagine the disapoinment that other classes will have,it will be a huge complainment list in every profession forum.Its so unbalanced…

Ranger Anthrage Stormrider – Sanguine Wild Guild [SW]
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Tarnished Coast Server- Anthrage Stormrider on Youtube

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Posted by: Kikyo.6438

Kikyo.6438

i agree with your idea.

The problem isn’t that we need traits for benifice of this capacity but the problem its that we need 20 power traits. I havent’t a berseker build, i prefer play survey with condition damage, but i need pierce arrow and put 20 in power just give me this capicity, my damage aren’t better, for 20 traits point, with my build its better to put that in vitality or pet traits.

I want to say an other question about ranger, its the bleed on the base attack of shortbow, many time we cant be in flan or back of the ennemies because of an aggro, bad position of boss, aoe hide our view etc… With my condition damage build i cant put my bleed correctly many time because of this reason and my efficacity in the team is lower, and that without pierce arrow. If some player can give their opinion about the bleed will be good^^

Good petition but that will be good if Anet can give us his opinion about that in this forum.

+1

Bye