Guild Wars 2

lets look at what others profs can do:

- thieves: macro quickness, near insta kill and insta stomp. gank on demand. abuses culling. guaranteed single target kills. most reliable single target burst in the game. Shadow Refuge one of the best utilities in the game.

- mesmers: ridiculous Glamour utilities, in addition to abusing culling, and having some of the best 1200 range damage (probably second to warrior)

- guardian: best support, boonbot, healer, probably the toughest prof when specced for support; i play a burst guardian who can teleport into a zerg, down 5 people and get out (meditations, hammer, GS)

- necro: aoe conditions that can be spammed from 900-1200 range on multiple targets; one of the best anti zerg profs

- ele: d/d rules WvW with knockdowns, godmode escapes and shields (if youre good), and above average aoe burst; support ele second best tank and support in the game

- warrior: rifle GS zerker warriors cut through zergs like hot knife through butter with whirlwind attack and endure pain. best 1200 range in the game.

okay. RANGER. im gonna try not to laugh as i type this:

- a decent duelist in 1v1-3 situations, condition build only
- LB barrage, muddy terrain, frost trap and spike trap can keep zergs at bay (to a limited extent)
- bunker setup with clerics makes running away from zergs and evading 10 scrubs for a while a lot of fun. until someone organized comes in and triple-immobilizes you. cant kill much.
- entangle trap bombing is the closest we get to downing multiple opponents, and it just plain sucks. because my guard or warrior can do the same in 2 seconds.

WvW is organized zerg warfare where strong utilities and big spells that make a demonstrable difference for or against multiple targets rule. a dev comment on their vision of the ranger in WvW would be lovely.

p.s. when are spirits, shouts, pets, LB and signets getting fixed? i.e. when is half of our profession getting fixed?

All professions are viable in just about every aspect of this game. Just a month or so ago people were crying about how Rangers weren’t viable in tPvP, but now a lot of top teams are using them. It just takes a little tweaking and going outside of conventional builds to find what works.

I’m not trying to say l2p, rather just experiment and try to be part of the solution rather then being negative.

No mention at all of engineers? I don’t think rangers are useless in WvW.

MidnightSun.7964:

All professions are viable in just about every aspect of this game.

absolutely false, not for WvW anyways. i play all kinds of ranger builds in tpvp, bunker and traps being their strongest. we’re not talking about tpvp in this thread though.

we’re talking about demonstrable results against larger groups of opponents, or for your team.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

No mention at all of engineers? I don’t think rangers are useless in WvW.

engineers and rangers are bottom of the barrel in wvw, and necros have some limited use. i dont know much about engies to comment.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

No mention at all of engineers? I don’t think rangers are useless in WvW.

Care to give any reasons or examples of why you think this?

nerva, what sort of build are you playing? Maybe the WvW on my server is just weak and I’ve had better experience because of it?

No one really mentions that projectiles aim for the base of a target, not center mass or the head. This makes sieging or counter-sieging very difficult. Often you can’t destroy a massive trebuchet or oil vat because your arrows are aiming at the very base of the target and hitting the lip of a wall.

Also, do siege weapons suffer from condition damage? I don’t think they do; and if that’s so, that throws our traps right out the window, too.

deepwinter.9015:

No one really mentions that projectiles aim for the base of a target, not center mass or the head. This makes sieging or counter-sieging very difficult. Often you can’t destroy a massive trebuchet or oil vat because your arrows are aiming at the very base of the target and hitting the lip of a wall.

Also, do siege weapons suffer from condition damage? I don’t think they do; and if that’s so, that throws our traps right out the window, too.

no siege weapons do not take condition damage.

Not a true statement. Rangers are fine in WvW, and will contribute as much or little as the player controlling the Ranger dictates.

Forzani.2584:

Not a true statement. Rangers are fine in WvW, and will contribute as much or little as the player controlling the Ranger dictates.

wrong. go through all of my points about other profs, and i want you to concisely counter how ranger is as good or better than what i listed. for example: ranger damage from 1200, burst, survivability, team support, CC…how is it as good or better than the other profs/sepcs i listed?

i also listed for you the only ranger strengths (ive been playing ranger since BWE1 and will continue to do so). these strengths are overridden by other profs who can do the same, except better.

im probably the biggest ranger fanboy here, which is why im advocating for the profession. but being a blind fanboy is probably the worst thing for the game, and this silly prof.

nerva.7940:

Forzani.2584:

Not a true statement. Rangers are fine in WvW, and will contribute as much or little as the player controlling the Ranger dictates.

wrong. go through all of my points about other profs, and i want you to concisely counter how ranger is as good or better than what i listed. for example: ranger damage from 1200, burst, survivability, team support, CC…how is it as good or better than the other profs/sepcs i listed?

i also listed for you the only ranger strengths (ive been playing ranger since BWE1 and will continue to do so). these strengths are overridden by other profs who can do the same, except better.

im probably the biggest ranger fanboy here, which is why im advocating for the profession. but being a blind fanboy is probably the worst thing for the game, and this silly prof.

I find it sorta funny to read posts like. “The Ranger class is fine L2P” but no reasons are given as to why it is fine. Where those saying the opposite usually give many reasons why they believe this.

MidnightSun.7964:

nerva, what sort of build are you playing? Maybe the WvW on my server is just weak and I’ve had better experience because of it?

The WvW on Maguuma is most definitely not weak.

I’ve played a lot of WvW as Ranger and I agree with the OP in that the Ranger is not a great contributor in large-scale fights, but there are many other ways to impact the success of your server. I’m more of a solo kind of player, so it fits me quite nicely.

Rangers have great mobility, meaning they’re good scouts, can be first on scene to man siege, kill or defend yaks, defend camps, etc., provide the supplies that allows the arrow cart to be completed that turns back the assault on a gate., etc.

They’re considered OP in the water, so they’re good for controlling the nodes and causing multiple enemies to waste time trying to kill them.

Their pets can destroy siege and res allies nobody else can reach, due to walls or distance.

That’s the kind of stuff I do in WvW most of the time, and I consider it all important, though not glamorous nor very profitable.

I’m not saying they’re the best or anything, but to say they contribute zilch is just not accurate.

Rangers are a great class and a big class to have in all WvWvW groups.

Daecollo.9578:

Rangers are a great class and a big class to have in all WvWvW groups.

That gave me a good chuckle. Good show, sir.

Agadar.4931:

Daecollo.9578:

Rangers are a great class and a big class to have in all WvWvW groups.

That gave me a good chuckle. Good show, sir.

Back to your old rhetoric, eh, Agadar? Don’t you have a thief to main? We’ve given up on motivating you to actually play the class and improve. You’d rather have ANET give you no pets with an F2 “kill shot” instead. I really think you are playing the wrong profession and all you do is drag this forum down so why don’t you make like a thief and stealth?

There are problems, but we do bring 1500 range which no other class has and we bring Guard + Jaguar/Raven which is a nightmarish combo that can down enemies who are not expecting it. Combine those two traits and we can pick apart or scare away sieging groups pretty decently from on top of a wall.

I’m not saying that Rangers are great, but they do have a niche in tower defenses. LB + Guard/Pets does just as good if not better damage than Warrior Rifle from on top of a wall and at a longer range.

slingblade.1437:

I’m not saying they’re the best or anything, but to say they contribute zilch is just not accurate.

my reasoning for saying this: it’s zilch because it can be replaced by something that is way, way better. i basically summarized the builds that rule WvW. while ranger is a decent duelist, mesmers, eles and thieves are on a whole other level because they can do way more burst and drop aggro on demand.

id be ok with the ranger being as is, if we could actually bring some decent support for our team. this is the perfect opportunity to actually fix spirits so that we can play support, like the ele and guardian can. SoN, while powerful in spvp, is useless in large open world engagements. not to mention its long CD. the rest of the spirits arent even worth slotting.

in conclusion, not only is the ranger mediocre at what it does best (skirmishing), but its missing an entire ROLE (support).

Omega.1473:

There are problems, but we do bring 1500 range which no other class has and we bring Guard + Jaguar/Raven which is a nightmarish combo that can down enemies who are not expecting it. Combine those two traits and we can pick apart or scare away sieging groups pretty decently from on top of a wall.

ok, i tried it all. the LB cant hit a moving target past 900, thats a fact. so 1500 range is only useful for barrage i guess, but even then it’s better to just pick up the trap trait and spam traps to keep the zerg away.

ive also run a maxed out jaguar build with sic’em, QZ and guard. it’s great fun dropping a clothy from a distance with my stealthed jaguar. but honestly, these are very bad players, and all you have to do to avoid the pet burst is dodge or zig zag. bottom line, it’s a gimmicky build that has zero effect on a zerg

Chopps.5047:

Agadar.4931:

Daecollo.9578:

Rangers are a great class and a big class to have in all WvWvW groups.

That gave me a good chuckle. Good show, sir.

Back to your old rhetoric, eh, Agadar? Don’t you have a thief to main? We’ve given up on motivating you to actually play the class and improve. You’d rather have ANET give you no pets with an F2 “kill shot” instead. I really think you are playing the wrong profession and all you do is drag this forum down so why don’t you make like a thief and stealth?

Keep the bumpain levels to a minimum, please. We’re trying to stay on-topic here.

No profession out ranges a rangers pet. Ranger have one of the fasters stomps. Pet are able to take out siege equiopement like no other class via pets. For tower defend spirits are great.

I also want to add that zerging is not the best use of man power in wvw. A good thief can zerg surf and virtually shutdown a zergs momentum. With that said a good ranger can shut down a zerg surfing thief.

Ranger can do support very well. support is one of those things people really dont like doing they want the glory on the battle field and support doesnt get it.

Ranger are not one dimensional they can do much of what the OP said about the other class. I love taking camp solo I dont know if other classes do it better. 5 ranger taking 5 different camps at the same time is alot better use of manpower than one team of 5 capping camps.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

No profession out ranges a rangers pet. Ranger have one of the fasters stomps.

pets cant hit much. quickness stomp isnt bad, but you also dont have any stability unless youre specifically using RaO to stomp someone. fast stomps and long range pets contribute nothing. stability, stealth and invulnerability stomps (guard/warrior, thief, ele/mesmer, respectively) are much more powerful.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Pet are able to take out siege equiopement like no other class via pets.

explain. whenever i send a pet onto a wall, it gets melted in seconds. u living in a fantasy where everyone ignores your squishy pet?

Serraphin Storm.2369:

For tower defend spirits are great.

explain. im not sure what you mean. spirits dont contribute to defense in any way.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

I also want to add that zerging is not the best use of man power in wvw. A good thief can zerg surf and virtually shutdown a zergs momentum. With that said a good ranger can shut down a zerg surfing thief.

zerging is the way of WvW. 15, 20, 30 people it’s a zerg and it’s how people roll. rangers cant assist in zerg extermination like other profs can. rangers cant really shut a thief down, maybe a bad one. this is mostly due to culling.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Ranger can do support very well.

care to give some examples? the only way rangers can support is by using traps to to cripple and chill. it hardly makes a diff. rangers have no other viable ways of supporting a group.

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Ranger are not one dimensional they can do much of what the OP said about the other class. I love taking camp solo I dont know if other classes do it better. 5 ranger taking 5 different camps at the same time is alot better use of manpower than one team of 5 capping camps.

ok, at this point i think youre just really new at the game. taking a camp solo is not really an achievement of any kind. my guardian can do it in about 60 seconds. and im not saying rangers are one-dimensional. im saying they cant make a visible difference in zerg warfare, like most other profs. im also saying half of the ranger profession is broken.

Well tbh i have to agree with the op. I started playing wvw a while ago cos i got bored of spvp. I always play with 2 friends (thief and mesmer, both very good players). I use the same evasive tank spec i use in structured, with a few small changes. Works fine in small scale fights ofc, in bigger fights i pretty much do the tanking since everyone loves focusing the ranger. What i bring to the party is pretty much my warhorn buff. Meh. Oh and quickness stomps, too bad stealth/mist form stomps are better. In even bigger fights aka zerg fights rangers are totally useless. Traps are pretty much the only usefull tools we have in this case, too bad some smart dev put them into the crit tree, and i won’t gimp myself in other scenarios by taking away points from ws or bm.
I might reroll something else, but tbh i hate pve with passion and the ranger is the only class i really like (to be precise, i like the class idea, its realization is a whole diff thing).

I have to correct one point tho:

- a decent duelist in 1v1-3 situations, condition build only

You are wrong here.

PVT/knight’s/berserker gear is ok, but you wont have enough sustain to fight a good mesmer, thief, or ele. two will ruin your world.

i rolled cleric’s with raven and owl, using my tpvp bunker setup. as i mentioned, u can tank 10 scrubs, but you cant really kill anything. with two ravens, the build would rock pretty hard. but that extra 4k burst is necessary.

this leaves us with a tanky BM condition build, which is great cuz u can tank a few people while doing decent damage

To be honest, Nerva is pretty much right..other then running around Solo (even then other classes can do it better cause they can escape if need be), pretty much every class surpasses in World vs World…

You can make the Ranger work, but it is the weakest of all the Classes in the game right now.

I’ll be honest with ya as well, I don’t think it’ll be fixed anytime soon…I mean if ya look at the changes Anet has done with the ranger, while they’ve been alright changes…The class itself is still so far down the bottom its silly…Countless useless Talents, Pigeonholed abilities (that only work with the talents), Some Useless Pets, And Entire Line of abilities and a Tree that is just crap (Spirits, and they’ve done little or nothing to change them, I mean..Look at the 2 changes the Spirits have gotten, and that can pretty much sum up they have zero clue what is wrong with the class)

I mean..in comparison to the other classes, it is poorly put together……and it won’t change anytime soon, So if you’re expecting Anet to come in and make a drastic overhaul of the class, You’re pretty much screwed…This class will not receive a major update…

Stoneslammer.3650:

nerva.7940:

Forzani.2584:

Not a true statement. Rangers are fine in WvW, and will contribute as much or little as the player controlling the Ranger dictates.

wrong. go through all of my points about other profs, and i want you to concisely counter how ranger is as good or better than what i listed. for example: ranger damage from 1200, burst, survivability, team support, CC…how is it as good or better than the other profs/sepcs i listed?

i also listed for you the only ranger strengths (ive been playing ranger since BWE1 and will continue to do so). these strengths are overridden by other profs who can do the same, except better.

im probably the biggest ranger fanboy here, which is why im advocating for the profession. but being a blind fanboy is probably the worst thing for the game, and this silly prof.

I find it sorta funny to read posts like. “The Ranger class is fine L2P” but no reasons are given as to why it is fine. Where those saying the opposite usually give many reasons why they believe this.

I find it sorta funny how much people whine about a computer game. People come on these forums all pumped about their Rangers and gasp say they are having fun ..what a concept.
Then the whiners speak up and say wtf you talking about ? Rangers are gimped. You people that say you are having fun playing the class are doing a disservice to Rangers and preventing them from getting fixed.

If some of you are that miserable playing a Ranger, why keep playing it ? Change to another class, quit the game or just keep playing your Ranger. Suggestions are good but the whinning is tiresome. If you insist on being all emo and negative at least keep it to yourself and stop trying to drag everyone else down to your pity party.

Obviously things could be tightened up with the class. Fairly new game kids. Give it a little time.

Trap build ranger with Flame Trap, Frost Trap, Signet of the Hunt, Healing Spring, and Entangle, run with group/zerg. You provide the combo fields and long range support, the group/zerg pulls off the combos.

Congratulations, you contributed something to WvW.
/thread

Forzani.2584:

I find it sorta funny how much people whine about a computer game. People come on these forums all pumped about their Rangers and gasp say they are having fun ..what a concept.
Then the whiners speak up and say wtf you talking about ? Rangers are gimped. You people that say you are having fun playing the class are doing a disservice to Rangers and preventing them from getting fixed.

If some of you are that miserable playing a Ranger, why keep playing it ? Change to another class, quit the game or just keep playing your Ranger. Suggestions are good but the whinning is tiresome. If you insist on being all emo and negative at least keep it to yourself and stop trying to drag everyone else down to your pity party.

Obviously things could be tightened up with the class. Fairly new game kids. Give it a little time.

a lot of whiners are passionate about their class because they love the game, and are trying to guide the devs toward the needed changes. also, many “whiners” are better than you with the prof and have been playing the prof since BWE1, and have basically mastered what there is to master.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Trap build ranger with Flame Trap, Frost Trap, Signet of the Hunt, Healing Spring, and Entangle, run with group/zerg. You provide the combo fields and long range support, the group/zerg pulls off the combos.

Congratulations, you contributed something to WvW.
/thread

funny enough, i specialized in this build. it’s garbage. with the aoe spam goin on now, people get free of entangle in under a second.

/continue thread

nerva.7940:

PVT/knight’s/berserker gear is ok, but you wont have enough sustain to fight a good mesmer, thief, or ele. two will ruin your world.

i rolled cleric’s with raven and owl, using my tpvp bunker setup. as i mentioned, u can tank 10 scrubs, but you cant really kill anything. with two ravens, the build would rock pretty hard. but that extra 4k burst is necessary.

this leaves us with a tanky BM condition build, which is great cuz u can tank a few people while doing decent damage

I’m using full soldier armor and knight/soldier jewels (soldier quiver). 0/0/30/10/30. 1h sword/warhorn/sb.
Burst is gimped compared to spvp cos i can’t use two ravens (cos the white one is not available in the gem store, tks anet, i love you too). Using raven/owl or raven/jaguar atm.
Eles are not a problem.You won’t prolly kill them if they are specced full bunker, but they won’t kill you anyway. Luckily most of them are just kids who found the “iwin” build on the forumz and don’t really know how to use it properly. They just spam the same rotation over and over and when you interrupt their button smashing they just panic and run away or die.
D/p thieves are a problem, mostly cos wvw is full of stupid mobs they can use c&d on.

Fjandi.2516:

nerva.7940:

PVT/knight’s/berserker gear is ok, but you wont have enough sustain to fight a good mesmer, thief, or ele. two will ruin your world.

i rolled cleric’s with raven and owl, using my tpvp bunker setup. as i mentioned, u can tank 10 scrubs, but you cant really kill anything. with two ravens, the build would rock pretty hard. but that extra 4k burst is necessary.

this leaves us with a tanky BM condition build, which is great cuz u can tank a few people while doing decent damage

I’m using full soldier armor and knight/soldier jewels (soldier quiver). 0/0/30/10/30. 1h sword/warhorn/sb.
Burst is gimped compared to spvp cos i can’t use two ravens (cos the white one is not available in the gem store, tks anet, i love you too). Using raven/owl or raven/jaguar atm.
Eles are not a problem.You won’t prolly kill them if they are specced full bunker, but they won’t kill you anyway. Luckily most of them are just kids who found the “iwin” build on the forumz and don’t really know how to use it properly. They just spam the same rotation over and over and when you interrupt their button smashing they just panic and run away or die.
*D/p thieves are a problem, mostly cos wvw is full of stupid mobs they can use c&d on. *

like our pets lol

nerva.7940:

funny enough, i specialized in this build. it’s garbage. with the aoe spam goin on now, people get free of entangle in under a second.

I use Entangle to help with those hard to reach sieges, for helping make escapes, and for keeping enemies from running for that brief second so they get taken down by the group. In other words, I use it for full support uses only.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Trap build ranger with Flame Trap, Frost Trap, Signet of the Hunt, Healing Spring, and Entangle, run with group/zerg. You provide the combo fields and long range support, the group/zerg pulls off the combos.

Congratulations, you contributed something to WvW.
/thread

Lol theorycraft more pls. Entangle? Really? In pve maybe. I might agree mobs are better than most wvw players, but still…

Xsorus.2507:

like our pets lol

Ye lol.

We’re the jacks of all trades and the masters of none. Anything we can do, others can do better. Others min-max to excel, we do it to stay alive or hit as hard as others can generally. For kitten’s sake, we have a strategy that involves jumping off cliffs and hoping our pursuers are stupid enough to jump after us and take more damage than we do with Muddy Terrain, and some of our best, if not most lethal abilities are quite possibly unintended (e.g. using Guard to send our pets over walls and being a kitten to kill while downed in water).

We’re by no means useless, though. We’re the standard infantry, the Starcraft Terran Marines of the GW2 WvW battlefield. We contribute bodies/strength in numbers. We can Stimpack/Quickening Zephyr to enhance our actions at the cost of HP/the ability to heal. When the enemy zerg is busy and deliberately targeting us for the potentially easy kills, the other classes can be free to execute their specialties.

A good Ranger can surprise his/her opponents by not going down (or at least not as easily as expected), dishing out damage/kills against the underestimating. A poor Ranger will serve as a purposeful distraction: when the enemy zerg swarms him/her to turn his/her downed body into a flag cushion, the other classes can either regroup and counterattack or retreat.

Yeah, I’m being extreme/over-generalizing/sarcastic, but unfortunately even then I don’t think what I’ve said is that far off. :T

I Lol’d at the comparison to a Marine. Good job sir, whenever I hit QZ in the future I will say to my self “awwww yea…”

And pray to God Anet adds it in also =O

A few points made in one particular post stuck out to me, so I figured I would like to address them. These are just observations about specific points, so I’m not sure how the translate to the big picture that is WvW.

nerva.7940:

pets cant hit much.

Sure they can, if you spec for it. The best part is you can build for durability while also maximizing pet dps, and/or stay completely out of enemy range while the pet does its thing.

nerva.7940:

fast stomps and long range pets contribute nothing.

They contribute fast downs and (as far as I know) the longest range harassment possible without siege. You could argue the value of those contributions, but they are there.

nerva.7940:

stability, stealth and invulnerability stomps (guard/warrior, thief, ele/mesmer, respectively) are much more powerful.

Ranger has access to all three, via RaO, Throw Feathers, and “Protect Me”.

nerva.7940:

explain. im not sure what you mean. spirits dont contribute to defense in any way.

There is a spirit that provides protection, and a spirit that provides aoe healing and resurrection. Pretty sure those are both considered forms of defense.

nerva.7940:

zerging is the way of WvW. 15, 20, 30 people it’s a zerg and it’s how people roll.

People also run in smaller teams and solo. Zergs surely exist and play a big role, but they aren’t the only thing that exist in wvw.

nerva.7940:

care to give some examples? the only way rangers can support is by using traps to to cripple and chill. it hardly makes a diff. rangers have no other viable ways of supporting a group.

Aoe regen, vigor, protection, healing, might, fear, cripple, etc. How you build and what pets you use will determine the final lineup, but I feel like there is a pretty huge selection available.

did you just pick up the game yesterday or…?

- pets cant hit much because theyre easily juked, even without swiftness up. specializing in pet damage and durability does nothin for u there bud. my jag lands about half of his stealth + QZ + Sic Em combo on a moving target, if the target sucks and cant dodge roll. if dodge roll twice, you pretty much nullify pet burst. not to mention that if you have QZ and sic em slotted, youre seriously gimping yourself.

- pets dont really count as contribution. no one is dumb enough to ignore them and a few aoe’s will melt any pet, regardless of spec

- ranger has access to invulnerability, stability and quickness. okay, so you gonna pop all three to down one person? what kind of an argument is that? you could just get a thief to do it unseen, or an ele to mist form stomp untouched. the most important stomp is a stability stomp, which can be spammed by warriors and guardians. you plan on popping your elite every time? i didnt say ranger was the worst stomper, but it’s the second worst after the necro.

- spirits provide one boon every 10 seconds, each lasting a few seconds. BY RNG NOT ON DEMAND. assuming that your spirits are somehow ALIVE, youre getting swiftness, burning and protection once in a while. if youre in the range to make use of protection, then your spirit is likely dead. swiftness is pretty useless, and so is burning. not to mention youre WASTING UTILITY SLOTS. therefore speccing for spirit only gimps you and everyone around you

- yes small teams exist sometimes, but unfortunately they dont define WvW even a little bit. smaller engagements are generally a huge waste of time (because youre not really putting any points on the board or doing anything significant) and just for fun. small organized teams can wipe out entire zergs, but believe me brother, they dont use rangers =P

- rangers dont provide healing to anyone in an efficient manner. you can huddle by SoN every 4 minutes i guess, lol. guards and eles can heal their group for 6k+ in a matter of seconds on a short CD. cripple meh, vigor meh, rest meh meh meh. try: feedback, timewarp, multiple water fields, shadow refuge, virtue of resolve, empower, shouts that give 2 boons at a time on a low CD, clear conditions and heal you, permachill or multi-fear bombs by necro, the list goes on. you obviously cant differentiate between which types of support make a demonstrable difference, and which dont. the only type of support by the ranger that makes a demonstrable difference is traps, which can ever so slightly slow down advancing zergs. i would slot SoN if its rez wasnt bugged, if it was on a 3 minute cooldown, and if it followed me by default.

achensherd.2735:

We’re the jacks of all trades and the masters of none.

this is actually another misconception that i’ll use as an example if you dont mind. rangers arent actually the jacks of support. rangers cant really support the team in any significant manner, likely because spirits HAVE BEEN BROKEN SINCE RELEASE.

secondly, no one defined the ranger as a jack of all trades. people just say that to make themselves feel a little better. every prof should be able to do everything well, and specialize in something that others cant do as well (stealth, mobility, burst, etc). ranger lacks this, utterly. there is absolutely nothing the ranger can do as good or better compared to another prof. nada.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Trap build ranger with Flame Trap, Frost Trap, Signet of the Hunt, Healing Spring, and Entangle, run with group/zerg. You provide the combo fields and long range support, the group/zerg pulls off the combos.

Congratulations, you contributed something to WvW.
/thread

this may be true. not sure how well this build works. i know i will never run without healing spring in WvW.

However if i was going to go for a combo field spec i would probably roll a elle. they have a lot of combo fields and they have blast finishers to utilize them better.

we rangers have only one blast finisher and it is from a pet so not really on demand or reliable.

2 leap finishers on gs/sword/x builds, u can leap over your healing spring 3 times healing for 6k if youre properly specced. i also like to run frost trap on my tanky builds for the armor.

This post I have seen made of every profession forum, some one is wrong unless every class is equally as bad which says Anet has done a great job!

nope, the consensus is pretty much that rangers, necros and engies are bottom of the barrel in wvw. the latter two offer significantly more to wvw scenarios, mostly anti-zerg tactics.

I recently leveled a ranger to 80 and WvWed quite a bit. Needless to say defensive gear is the way to go because you want your pet to hit while they attack you. This works great in 2-6 people scenarios because it is very unlikely that they can down your pet here.

However at the same time exactly this aspect (which the class is based on) does not work at all in zergy fights/siege scenarios. You just lose your pet there in seconds or you cannot use it at all which just removes 40% of your efficiency atleast. No other class is that polarizing and drops so much use in a scenario that isn’t rare at all. You are basically forced to never ever fight in any > 5 enemy skirmish.

This is very hard to fix but giving pets some kind of 50% AoE resistance would be a start together with tuning some utilities/traits towards better pet survivability. A good example for completly underpowered skills is signet active effects. I do not know who thought this would be balanced. One time 50% more dmg that misses most of the time for giving up 25% speed boost for quite a long time? 120 seconds of cooldown on most other signets??? I mean wtf. These need a serious overhaul starting with active effects that are actually worth using on a fair cooldown.

Last but not least: Great Sword damage. While a sword/traps condition build is at a decent place right now GS just got destroyed damage wise at some point in beta. Nobody really knew how to play at that point but still they did a huge nerf that made GS unusable for dealing damage/nearly never played again in sPvP until now. It just was an overnerf and while it had to be nerfed they now have to give it back a part of its former strength.

Autoattack chain: This just needs more damage, maybe focuss the buff on the 3rd hit to reward chaining a bit.
2nd skill: Fine even though I find confusion stacks more apporpriate of a condition for a bear hitting you. Making this the only skill in the GS set with cond dmg makes it hard to gear for.
3rd skill: Absolutely no complains.
4th skill: The block into knockback is fine but throwing the sword seems like complete garbage. This needs to deal way more damage and it has to be possible to cast it while moving. Terrible right now.
5th skill: Needs slightly faster animation and slightly higher range.

nerva.7940:

achensherd.2735:

We’re the jacks of all trades and the masters of none.

this is actually another misconception that i’ll use as an example if you dont mind. rangers arent actually the jacks of support. rangers cant really support the team in any significant manner, likely because spirits HAVE BEEN BROKEN SINCE RELEASE.

secondly, no one defined the ranger as a jack of all trades. people just say that to make themselves feel a little better. every prof should be able to do everything well, and specialize in something that others cant do as well (stealth, mobility, burst, etc). ranger lacks this, utterly. there is absolutely nothing the ranger can do as good or better compared to another prof. nada.

I’ll assume you just took that line out of the context of my post to make a point about that phrase when used in positive regard for the Ranger, because if you read the rest of my post, i.e. from the line immediately after the one you quoted onwards… it wasn’t really meant to serve as a form of flattery or complement towards our class as you seem to have made it out to be to refute. :P

Stoneslammer.3650:

nerva.7940:

Forzani.2584:

Not a true statement. Rangers are fine in WvW, and will contribute as much or little as the player controlling the Ranger dictates.

wrong. go through all of my points about other profs, and i want you to concisely counter how ranger is as good or better than what i listed. for example: ranger damage from 1200, burst, survivability, team support, CC…how is it as good or better than the other profs/sepcs i listed?

i also listed for you the only ranger strengths (ive been playing ranger since BWE1 and will continue to do so). these strengths are overridden by other profs who can do the same, except better.

im probably the biggest ranger fanboy here, which is why im advocating for the profession. but being a blind fanboy is probably the worst thing for the game, and this silly prof.

I find it sorta funny to read posts like. “The Ranger class is fine L2P” but no reasons are given as to why it is fine. Where those saying the opposite usually give many reasons why they believe this.

SO many reasons have been given. It’s normally hand waved with “oh well you must only be fighting bads”. Like for some reason we don’t all fight the same sPVP and tPVP players and a wide range of WvW servers.

Rangers have issues but we are still a solid class, almost every other class forum here is moaning about the same issue, “we are great at A but useless in B”.

Ya’s need to stop factoring your pet into your damage and use them as CC and build your traits around making you stronger and using your pets as more of support skills.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

No mention at all of engineers? I don’t think rangers are useless in WvW.

Of coarse not. Not going to list a class worse off in WvW than one you are crying about.

Ways rangers can contribute.

1. Easily flips sentry’s/camp’s solo.
2. Looking for mesmers that are setting up a portal bomb and knocking them back/CC.
3. Bursting high priority targets.
4. Taking out enemy siege with guard.
5. Group AOE heal, conditional removal, and a water combo field.
6. Generally annoying the other zerg with a pet bear chomping on someone’s ankle.

and there is quite a few more points I can add. Do rangers need some changes? Yes! Do rangers need to be able to run without a pet? Absolutely!

To make a thread stating rangers contribute absolutely nothing in WvW is asinine.

Quote:

Ya’s need to stop factoring your pet into your damage and use them as CC …

Yep, stop using 30% + of your damage as per ANet’s explanation of the class mechanic (because they are broken).

Pet support skills are mainly a joke- 2/3 seconds cast time while the pet stands in one spot – useful if you like being run over, or up on a wall out of range of aoe, pretty useless in open field play where people tend to move (or stand still and die).

I actually felt so sorry for a BM built ranger yesterday (firing sb, here he comes switching to melee weapon ..leaps towards me and finds himself planted on his kitten by knockback, still makes me laugh every time) that I stood still and let his pet hit me a few times. It’s about the only time a pet ever hits you. They are so useless atm that I actually feel sorry for BM builds in wvw where there are any decent size zergs.

Maybe one day they will make pet’s F2 skills instant cast and cast while moving, then pets would be a kitten sight more useful than they are now in most of wvw.

nerva.7940:

- pets cant hit much because theyre easily juked, even without swiftness up. if dodge roll twice, you pretty much nullify pet burst.

The ranger has access to cc that can allow the pet to hit more often. I would also point out that just about any burst in this game can be avoided by well timed dodges; that isn’t some issue unique to the ranger. One advantage the ranger has is that failure of that burst does not inherently put the ranger in danger. Furthermore, burst isn’t the only form of damage.

- pets dont really count as contribution. no one is dumb enough to ignore them and a few aoe’s will melt any pet, regardless of spec

It isn’t necessarily dumb for the enemy to ignore the pet if there are other targets to choose from and they happen to prioritize your pet lower than others. As for pet’s squishiness – while an opponent focusing it can certainly drop the hp of a pet fast, that isn’t really any different from them focusing on anything else. The difference is that a ranger pet has an instant 100% damage avoidance button (pet swap) and can be supported by you from well out of the pets range (moreso with fortifying bond).

nerva.7940:

- ranger has access to invulnerability, stability and quickness. okay, so you gonna pop all three to down one person?

Ranger has access to three different ways of supporting the stomping of an opponent; how and if someone uses any or all of those is their choice. I am talking about access to abilities, not making a statement about how those should be used.

Stealth/Invuln – you mention thief/ele have access to these – I explain how ranger can also do both.

Stability – I covered this as well, but you gave a specific criticism here so allow me to respond to it. In many circumstances you can have it up every time you want to stomp. For starters, it is a combat ability so there is a chance you already have it up the moment the enemy goes down. It is also on a relatively low cd, so I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect for it to be up for each engagement.

If having a single unique way of defending the completion of a stomp is an advantage, then I would think that a ranger having access to three would put ranger at least on the same page as everyone else. I will also reiterate that having three methods does not mean using all three every time; it just means the ranger has a number of choices.

nerva.7940:

- spirits provide one boon … BY RNG NOT ON DEMAND. assuming that your spirits are somehow ALIVE, youre getting swiftness, burning and protection once in a while. youre WASTING UTILITY SLOTS. therefore speccing for spirit only gimps you and everyone around you

At no point did I suggest slotting only spirits. Sorry if I wasn’t clear there. I mentioned two spirits; stone (protection) and SoN (healing/rez). One of those two is not on rng, so that portion of your argument applies to only one spirit. Does the rng on the stone spirit make placing it in a utility slot unjustified? Maybe. It is still an option for those who can accept its limitations though.

nerva.7940:

- smaller engagements are generally a huge waste of time (because youre not really putting any points on the board or doing anything significant) and just for fun.

I admittedly don’t play at a very high tier, so please correct me if I am totally off base here…but how would it not be significant to have small teams controlling/defending supply routes, as an example?

nerva.7940:

- rangers dont provide healing to anyone in an efficient manner. guards and eles can heal their group for 6k+ in a matter of seconds on a short CD. cripple meh, vigor meh, rest meh meh meh. try: [several forms of support listed], the list goes on. the only type of support by the ranger that makes a demonstrable difference is traps, which can ever so slightly slow down advancing zergs.

That is certainly a long list, but bear in mind no class has access to all of those abilities. some of the things you mention here require very specific trait and item builds. If we compare them 1:1 and remember that any given class probably only has a couple of the items mentioned depending on the build, I think ranger fits in a lot better.

Now you do have specific complaints about SoN; fair enough. I also think the timer is ridiculous and the lack of control is irritating and limiting. However the rangers ability to support isn’t limited to a single ability, nor a class of abilities such as traps.

iCryptik.1496:

Ways rangers can contribute.
1. Easily flips sentry’s/camp’s solo.

every prof can do it faster, except for thief maybe. no joke.

2. Looking for mesmers that are setting up a portal bomb and knocking them back/CC.
[/quote]

lolwut?

iCryptik.1496:

3. Bursting high priority targets.

uh, thats what thieves and warriors do. rangers have the worst burst in the game, not to mention it’s pet-dependent

iCryptik.1496:

4. Taking out enemy siege with guard.

guard is an exploit. regardless, nobody willl LET YOU do that. not sure what servers u play, but ive yet to see someone allow me to destroy a siege without melting the pet.

iCryptik.1496:

5. Group AOE heal, conditional removal, and a water combo field.

the funny thing is, the spammable and traited Virtue of Resolve does this way better. and you dont even have to stack on the guardian for that, like you do on the ranger for the HS. also, direct 2k+ heal is much more important than the silly regen HS gives.

iCryptik.1496:

6. Generally annoying the other zerg with a pet bear chomping on someone’s ankle.

lolwut

iCryptik.1496:

To make a thread stating rangers contribute absolutely nothing in WvW is asinine.

they contribute nothing because, technically, youre gimping your server by not rolling the other profs. if you wanna get technical.

Saintly.8062:

I admittedly don’t play at a very high tier, so please correct me if I am totally off base here…but how would it not be significant to have small teams controlling/defending supply routes, as an example?

no worries! im talking about a higher level of play where profs need to not just be fun or “okay” but also make a demonstrable difference in zergy encounters. in these situations you need strong abilities, utilities and elites that can swing the fight in your side’s favour. ranger does not offer this.

nerva.7940:

- a decent duelist in 1v1-3 situations, condition build only

i haven’t played WvW so can’t comment, but play a lot of SPvP and i do extremely well in duels, 1v1-3 situations and i don’t use a condition build. Just Sayin.