Guild Wars 2

It’s because Rangers have super fast burst power and AOE and piercing arrows so we can attack lords and hit tons of players making us loot kitten. We also have little to no group utilities to help out a zerg and this game is all about Zergs and who can drop the most combos. I love my Ranger and yes I’m a loot kitten

Gotchaz.7865:

It’s because Rangers have super fast burst power and AOE and piercing arrows so we can attack lords and hit tons of players making us loot kitten. We also have little to no group utilities to help out a zerg and this game is all about Zergs and who can drop the most combos. I love my Ranger and yes I’m a loot kitten

your not even a good loot tagger with ranger in WvWlol

ya your arrows pierce thats great but requires a proper setup to even hit a ton of targets

your only AOE is barrage.

necros, eles and staff guardians have more AOES, and thus more tagging ability than ranger. Top that off with WAAAAY better group utility/support.

Ranger is awesome for making a party of 5 snipers and all kittenting rapid fire on 1 target at once lol. Now that is their role in backline DPS for WvW zerg lol.

SkiTz.4590:

Gotchaz.7865:

It’s because Rangers have super fast burst power and AOE and piercing arrows so we can attack lords and hit tons of players making us loot kitten. We also have little to no group utilities to help out a zerg and this game is all about Zergs and who can drop the most combos. I love my Ranger and yes I’m a loot kitten

your not even a good loot tagger with ranger in WvWlol

ya your arrows pierce thats great but requires a proper setup to even hit a ton of targets

your only AOE is barrage.

necros, eles and staff guardians have more AOES, and thus more tagging ability than ranger. Top that off with WAAAAY better group utility/support.

Ranger is awesome for making a party of 5 snipers and all kittenting rapid fire on 1 target at once lol. Now that is their role in backline DPS for WvW zerg lol.

As fun as that is you would be much better off having 5 necro’s dropping wells to kill multiple players.

Puck.9612:

Darkness.9732:

Everything is better than a ranger. We all know that.
If we could count all the players who quitted playing ranger…well you would accept my statement. Since we can’ t count them..there are still some rangers who have ^^ hope^^.
Loose that hope couse the first decent mesmer or ele or thief will stomp you in seconds.

You must have been a pretty crappy ranger if you were dying to thieves. No wonder you rage quit the game.

Said the best ranger in the universe @Puck I bet that you are the typical ranger who in 10 fights gets rekt 9 times and claims to be good^^
If ranger are so good…Can you tell me why in spvp finals or high level matches there are more thieves than rangers?^ Oh sorry my fault ZERO RANGERS.

The only reason Thief is played over Ranger is SB#5.

Darkness.9732:

Puck.9612:

Darkness.9732:

Everything is better than a ranger. We all know that.
If we could count all the players who quitted playing ranger…well you would accept my statement. Since we can’ t count them..there are still some rangers who have ^^ hope^^.
Loose that hope couse the first decent mesmer or ele or thief will stomp you in seconds.

You must have been a pretty crappy ranger if you were dying to thieves. No wonder you rage quit the game.

Said the best ranger in the universe @Puck I bet that you are the typical ranger who in 10 fights gets rekt 9 times and claims to be good^^
If ranger are so good…Can you tell me why in spvp finals or high level matches there are more thieves than rangers?^ Oh sorry my fault ZERO RANGERS.

Sorry to crush your fun but I have never lost a single straight 1v1 versus thieves with the build I am using with e Dream.

You’ll very soon see me playing in high level matches in ESLs. We were the first team to beat Abjured after 30 weeks in a match last week and I’m pretty confident we can do it again.

Skullface.7293:

…You’ll very soon see me playing in high level matches in ESLs. We were the first team to beat Abjured after 30 weeks in a match last week and I’m pretty confident we can do it again.

Nice work on that mate, way to fly the flag! Looking forward to seeing more of your matches.

Darkness.9732:

Puck.9612:

Darkness.9732:

Everything is better than a ranger. We all know that.
If we could count all the players who quitted playing ranger…well you would accept my statement. Since we can’ t count them..there are still some rangers who have ^^ hope^^.
Loose that hope couse the first decent mesmer or ele or thief will stomp you in seconds.

You must have been a pretty crappy ranger if you were dying to thieves. No wonder you rage quit the game.

Said the best ranger in the universe @Puck I bet that you are the typical ranger who in 10 fights gets rekt 9 times and claims to be good^^
If ranger are so good…Can you tell me why in spvp finals or high level matches there are more thieves than rangers?^ Oh sorry my fault ZERO RANGERS.

Somebody sounds a little booty bothered.
The reason thieves are brought over rangers is they have better mobility and access to boon stripping. So basically you are losing your fights against an expert at musical chairs, please keep the salty tears coming.

Agemnon.4608:

I don’t have a ranger (yet?) and don’t understand the hate myself. You get two entire characters, the pet and the ranger himself. I did notice that many rangers use a knockback, which screws with targeting so that could be a lot of it but don’t bother me personally.

I hate to break it to ya but the pet is by no means an entire character

Skullface.7293:

Darkness.9732:

Puck.9612:

Darkness.9732:

Everything is better than a ranger. We all know that.
If we could count all the players who quitted playing ranger…well you would accept my statement. Since we can’ t count them..there are still some rangers who have ^^ hope^^.
Loose that hope couse the first decent mesmer or ele or thief will stomp you in seconds.

You must have been a pretty crappy ranger if you were dying to thieves. No wonder you rage quit the game.

Said the best ranger in the universe @Puck I bet that you are the typical ranger who in 10 fights gets rekt 9 times and claims to be good^^
If ranger are so good…Can you tell me why in spvp finals or high level matches there are more thieves than rangers?^ Oh sorry my fault ZERO RANGERS.

Sorry to crush your fun but I have never lost a single straight 1v1 versus thieves with the build I am using with e Dream.

You’ll very soon see me playing in high level matches in ESLs. We were the first team to beat Abjured after 30 weeks in a match last week and I’m pretty confident we can do it again.

First of all i want to see you there…
Second of all…for you is normal..eventually…that a ranger takes 3 years to get to high level pvp matches?^
Ranger is broken and it’ s so weak. Everyone knows that sadly.

hmmm

well, I can only speak for myself. 1st off, I deleted my ranger and never looked back due to lack of condi cleansing and pet issues.

2nd, also playing all the other available professions in game except revenant, i find rangers to be extremely easy to kill. by far, far easier then anything else, across all 7 of my other professions. i dont know why since builds have changed since i had my ranger so if i tried i just wouldnt be able to go into details of it, but thats that.

yes, on rare occasion i get popped by LB ranger when he/she/it catches me with all my CDs used up after fighting someone else, and also on very rare occasion i run into a full melee ranger that gives me a good run for my money and sometimes i lose. but those are truly rare exception, rather then the rule.

hers the thing, 90% of bad rangers claim that its the other people that are the baddies. i dont really care. but what i do care about is that 90%+ of the time rangers are almost free kills for me both in spvp and wvw, and are likewise for my opponents.

so following simple logic, since to me rangers in general are extremely easy kills, almost free loot, they are the same for my opponents. therefore, i do not like to have free kills for my opponents on my team. in fact, its so bad that if there is no available replacement, i’d rather have an empty spot then rallybait right next to me. at least i’ll have a more reliable chance and know where i stand upfront.

its not hate, just logical conclusions drawn on my personal experiences. simple math, simple averages.

I don’t know about you all, but I never let conditions get on me, and if they do I allow my signet to cleanse them. I have played longbow and great sword since guild wars 2 launched. The build I have going makes me more viable then most people who fight. Most people look for the best build, this just doesn’t exist. If you do not use your pet you will die. It’s 40% of your damage.

We do less damage, but if there’s one thing I know it’s that asking as your pet is alive you will survive. It’s not just some object it’s the difference between life and death in many situations whether it be pvp or pve. If you choose not to use your pet you are No ranger.

Solandri.9640:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Something extra to think about when with banners you don’t have to. Why make it intentionally harder than it has to be? Just seems silly. Banners are simply better because they can’t die, they’re mobile, and they are 100% the entire time they’re up.

Actually, banners last 90 sec on a 120 sec cooldown. So their uptime is less than spirits (provided the spirit doesn’t die).

My take on the banner/spirit comparison is just that – spirits can die. The thing that can be killed by the enemy should have a bigger effect than the thing that can’t. But it’s the other way around with banners having better effects (frost spirit excepted).

One of the great things about GW1 was that when you placed a spirit, you forced your opponent into a decision. Does he spend time killing the spirit to remove its effect? Or does he live with its effect and continue attacking you? That dynamic is gone from GW2 because of how weak ranger spirits are.

90 sec on a 120 sec cd is immaterial, most PvE fights don’t last beyond even 60 seconds. For all intents and purposes banner uptime on bosses is 100%.

What’s more, given that spirits die early often, they also have reduced uptime, and unlike banners their effects are on 10 sec ICD’s except frost spirit, with a 70% proc rate and the effects are often short duration.

Skullface.7293:

Darkness.9732:

Puck.9612:

Darkness.9732:

Everything is better than a ranger. We all know that.
If we could count all the players who quitted playing ranger…well you would accept my statement. Since we can’ t count them..there are still some rangers who have ^^ hope^^.
Loose that hope couse the first decent mesmer or ele or thief will stomp you in seconds.

You must have been a pretty crappy ranger if you were dying to thieves. No wonder you rage quit the game.

Said the best ranger in the universe @Puck I bet that you are the typical ranger who in 10 fights gets rekt 9 times and claims to be good^^
If ranger are so good…Can you tell me why in spvp finals or high level matches there are more thieves than rangers?^ Oh sorry my fault ZERO RANGERS.

Sorry to crush your fun but I have never lost a single straight 1v1 versus thieves with the build I am using with e Dream.

You’ll very soon see me playing in high level matches in ESLs. We were the first team to beat Abjured after 30 weeks in a match last week and I’m pretty confident we can do it again.

Unfortunately spvp thieves are NOT WvW thieves. WvW thieves have far higher crit damage, are not limited to fighting on points so they can reset at will and drag out a fight to run you out of cooldowns without anything to lose since you aren’t competing over points, and they have access to some broken items like potions and food not available in spvp.

Thieves are much weaker in spvp than they are in WvW. So are cele D/D eles for that matter and they were already obscene in spvp.

Makes no sense to even make the thief comparison between WvW and PvP in this instance. The roles/playstyles are totally different and he’s not talking about WvW. Thief shouldn’t be 1v1ing much in PvP anyway.

Which is why it’s weird someone would bring up winning 1v1 against thieves in spvp.

Thieves are handicapped in spvp. Their best dueling builds are not their best team builds.

Stealth spam hurts your team as it loses you points, and bumbling around doing constant resets does you no favors as the opponent is standing on point while your team is fighting undermanned.

Basically, evaluating a thief as a 1v1 class in spvp is a flawed perspective. It is plain obvious to anyone however that thieves are much more useful to a spvp team. Virtually all the teams in the championsjips (TCG,Abjured,oRNG) had a thief in their team. You can’t say the same about ranger or necromancer for that matter.

It doesn’t mean the ranger is not viable, Hiro is doing fine. He just probably has to put in far more effort to achieve the same results a midling thief or d/d ele can achieve.

TLDR Buff rangers!

Darkness.9732:

Skullface.7293:

Darkness.9732:

Puck.9612:

Darkness.9732:

Everything is better than a ranger. We all know that.
If we could count all the players who quitted playing ranger…well you would accept my statement. Since we can’ t count them..there are still some rangers who have ^^ hope^^.
Loose that hope couse the first decent mesmer or ele or thief will stomp you in seconds.

You must have been a pretty crappy ranger if you were dying to thieves. No wonder you rage quit the game.

Said the best ranger in the universe @Puck I bet that you are the typical ranger who in 10 fights gets rekt 9 times and claims to be good^^
If ranger are so good…Can you tell me why in spvp finals or high level matches there are more thieves than rangers?^ Oh sorry my fault ZERO RANGERS.

Sorry to crush your fun but I have never lost a single straight 1v1 versus thieves with the build I am using with e Dream.

You’ll very soon see me playing in high level matches in ESLs. We were the first team to beat Abjured after 30 weeks in a match last week and I’m pretty confident we can do it again.

First of all i want to see you there…
Second of all…for you is normal..eventually…that a ranger takes 3 years to get to high level pvp matches?^
Ranger is broken and it’ s so weak. Everyone knows that sadly.

No, Ranger is by no means weak right now. Scull’s build and those that are similar are very powerful, in the right hands, at this moment. It’s going to take a while for teams to pick rangers up again because the prior Meta completely pushed us out. This meta leaves quite a bit of room for us.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Skullface.7293:

…You’ll very soon see me playing in high level matches in ESLs. We were the first team to beat Abjured after 30 weeks in a match last week and I’m pretty confident we can do it again.

Nice work on that mate, way to fly the flag! Looking forward to seeing more of your matches.

Likewise, great job, keep it up!

Archon.6480:

No, Ranger is by no means weak right now. Scull’s build and those that are similar are very powerful, in the right hands, at this moment. It’s going to take a while for teams to pick rangers up again because the prior Meta completely pushed us out. This meta leaves quite a bit of room for us.

http://academygamingnet.com/class-tier-list-august-18th-2015/

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Archon.6480:

No, Ranger is by no means weak right now. Scull’s build and those that are similar are very powerful, in the right hands, at this moment. It’s going to take a while for teams to pick rangers up again because the prior Meta completely pushed us out. This meta leaves quite a bit of room for us.

http://academygamingnet.com/class-tier-list-august-18th-2015/

So this class tier list kind of represents a seriously glaring flaw in many peoples thinking when they approach classes in this game. The issue is that folks are weighing too heavily what goes on in competitive play. Way too heavily. Like its actually insane.

Take the WTS as an example. People will very quickly and happily point out that none of the competitors played ranger. Because none of them played ranger, then the class must be bad. Gotta hate on it. But how many teams actually go to wts? 4. 4 teams. The biggest most important competition for gw2 is as large as 20 players. They are basically the same 20 players that have been competing for wts the entire time (except dankening).

Now think about any other sport. The number of players that make up a team. The number of teams that make up a league. The number of teams that will qualify for the playoffs. Within those sports you’ll see a much broader range of strategies, skill levels, team compositions, physical attributes etc….

The point I’m trying to make is that with the gw2 competitive scene being literally microscopic it makes no sense to base every single opinion off of what you see a handful of players doing. They are great players. The make great plays. But they don’t represent everything that is good and that works. And they aren’t going to. When they compete against each other they mostly just see the same classes represented. When they scrim against each other they just see the same classes represented.

And also, not sure if Darkness realized, but we’ve already had a ranger go to WTS. Eurantien played in a WTS with the Dankening. Spoiler alert the ranger was not the weak link on the team. And that was in the prior meta when we were much weaker.

The simple fact is, that if Ranger was in a good spot, it would be used competitively.

I had thought about how small the top tier community really is, it may have been that by chance, none of them liked playing Ranger. Even if that was the case, if Ranger was good, these guys would pick it up and learn it for that advantage.

We just need a couple of things though and we can be well and truly embedded in PvP, I’m hoping Druid brings those things.

The encouraging thing for me is that ANet seems to listen to these players and pay attention to how they play. If they all say Ranger is kitten and not worth using, maybe ANet will do something about it because they sure don’t listen to us on the Forum.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

http://academygamingnet.com/class-tier-list-august-18th-2015/

“Ranger is by and far the worst class in Guild Wars 2 PvP. Rarely seen in competitive play, the only semi-viable build is power ranger, which can be handled and most of its damage mitigated quite easily. Furthermore, condition builds aren’t even in the question and don’t stand a chance against any other 1v1 build that is remotely viable. Let’s hope for some Ranger love in Heart of Thorns as they have been sitting at the bottom for quite some time now.” —Storm, Academy Gaming

I think this qualifies as “Ranger Hate.”

He didn’t qualify any of his reasoning. He says the only semi-viable build is “power ranger.” Why would one say that? What flavor? Then he continues to say “condition builds aren’t even in the question…” OK, why is that?

He is just saying what he says because none of the four teams in the top bracket have switched to Ranger since the last balance update. Why would they, if all their experience is on the other classes. That would be dumb. They won’t switch until a team shows up and starts doing well with a Ranger in the mix. Assuming everything is balanced and no class (aside from d/d elems) is much stronger than any other, that won’t happen any time soon.

I run both Ranger and Mesmer, and enjoy them both. Both classes can wipe the better part of a team in seconds if they make a mistake. Ranger’s strength is in beastmastery, evasion, conditions, and high vitality. Obviously he is clueless about ranger as he mentioned “Power Ranger” as being the strongest, almost viable, option for a Ranger. It simply is not at the moment.

I think most people agree that fire damage and taunt are hard to deal with, as things currently stand… so why would the “strongest ranger build” not include either of these, while the strongest flat out build (d/d elem) makes use of fire damage quite well?

I’ll stand by my statement. If there was an advantage to running Ranger over something else, it would be all over the competitive scene. But it’s not.

It’s fun, though. And I’ll always love it.

Actually Archon, condition builds in general are weak against meta builds and team compositions, which sort of justifies that articles writer not expanding on that point because that’s more class analysis than class tiering. But, as mentioned, no class is running condi pure builds in competitive games unless they want to fight an extremely uphill battle against all of the common builds that have built in passive hardcounters to conditions.

If conditions start to push meta again, ranger will still probably lose immediately in the battle for a team slot against engineers, and really anything that can near insta-stack insane burns and cover them.

But power survival ranger is definitely a close contender with metagame builds for sure. It even has all of the right tools and matchups in a standalone sense. Really, the only things lacking are still team utility oriented. Rangers don’t help at all against builds that are boon reliant, where something else in slot would be, they don’t have that “instant” escape or mobility so they still might need a bit more team support with peeling than a different class and don’t really backcap or +1 with the same sort of mobility other classes can, and outside of taunt, rangers don’t really bring much niche utility like team stealth or the ability to moa key threats.

BUT, and I think the most important to stress counter point, is that just because rangers don’t do some of these things doesn’t mean that they are a liability to the team.

The most common instance of ranger hate in this regard is that these articles and people make statements about what we can’t do or that we’re bottom tier or the class isn’t worth playing, but they never actually know what the class actually does. As a matter of fact, most of these people have never even rolled a ranger or have bothered to educate themselves about ranger simply because of the lack of ranger players at high tiers of play. If they bothered to educate themselves at all, they might actually realize that while the class isn’t in the S-tier nerf now categories that other recurring classes get (appropriately) placed in, that just like with any other class, a skilled and experienced ranger contributes to a team composition and can be built around to be successful.

It took people forever to figure out that they could run dps guardian in a successful team comp too, but that’s what happens when the competitive community that’s visible on streams and active/vocal is maybe pushing 10% of the size of docgotgame’s gw2 viewership on its best day.

jcbroe.4329:

The most common instance of ranger hate in this regard is that these articles and people make statements about what we can’t do or that we’re bottom tier or the class isn’t worth playing, but they never actually know what the class actually does. As a matter of fact, most of these people have never even rolled a ranger or have bothered to educate themselves about ranger simply because of the lack of ranger players at high tiers of play. If they bothered to educate themselves at all, they might actually realize that while the class isn’t in the S-tier nerf now categories that other recurring classes get (appropriately) placed in, that just like with any other class, a skilled and experienced ranger contributes to a team composition and can be built around to be successful.

This here is such an important statement. Reminds me of a stream Phantaram did a couple weeks back now. Phanta was actually playing Ranger. It’s the only reason I dropped in. He was even playing okish builds, though not completely optimal. Phanta is a great Guild Wars 2 player. He’s a great Ele, one of the absolute best. I’m a better ranger though, maybe even better than he’ll ever be. I mean if you ran in to him during a match and he was playing Ranger you might even type in say chat “lol l2p scrub ranger” after you killed him for the 10th time.

Do not under estimate the number of hours it takes to get good at doing something. To go past the initial stage of “wait. What am I doing?” to the stage of “oh I push this button to disappear and that button to kill” to the stage of “oh look, that engi’s gonna elixer x, lemme PBS.” If you think a class is bottom tier, and then you feel bottom tier playing it, whats the main conclusion you’re going to draw?? You’d certainly have a tough time assigning value to something.

Again the competitive scene is so small and to believe that it is the only true representation of what works just makes no sense. Especially so soon after the specializations patch. 2 months almost? That’s not enough time for peoples perceptions to match the actual reality of the class.

I’ve been playing Ranger for a long while now…with only two alts both under 30.. and If ranger is as bad as they say then I must not be seeing it.. I will leave the stats discussion to the numbers people, but I’ve had my share of 1v1 and 5v5 and 20vs20 Et Cetera. Rangers can and will win if the player is good enough. But, in everything I’ve seen.. It seems like the Ranger shines at WvW..

They are superb at bolstering Zergs and defending structures. They pick off and kill many stragglers. They are the mobile and quick support. And when working in numbers can provide superior long distance fire for the guardians and such. Having rangers can change the tide of large scale battles and most won’t know they are the secret factor, mainly because people will say “ranger is kitten” (and thus won’t experience playing a ranger). no, they don’t have easy traits to master. But when you do. You’ll know you are the better player.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…Again the competitive scene is so small and to believe that it is the only true representation of what works just makes no sense. Especially so soon after the specializations patch. 2 months almost? That’s not enough time for peoples perceptions to match the actual reality of the class.

I’m not saying that it is the only true representation of what works. I’m saying that if there was any advantage in running Ranger over something else that is competitive PvP Meta, then someone in that circle would be running or at least heavily practising with it by now. It doesn’t take 2 months for people to look at the traits and see synergy or if the class has the things required for each role in a PvP team. You don’t need to play it to see that, you just need a good understanding of the game and the ability to read.

They may be practising it as we speak and we wouldn’t know. The WS/NM/BM Marauder LB/GS is something close to what could be a meta build for us, Hiro has shown it works, but…

What advantage does it bring over another? Range with spammable blind and weakness and the ability to rez faster. If there was support or mobility (teleports) it would be perfect. The only reason thief is used over Ranger for a roamer/+1 is SB5, if we had mobility like that Thief would never be used again. But we don’t.

We just need that little bit extra, like some mobility, AoE damage and or group support. Something Druid may bring. I’m hoping so anyway, DR/WS/BM LB/ST could be a potent support and survival build, we would lose the ability to rez faster, but it would probably be a good trade off. We shall see.

Hertz.1309:

They are superb at bolstering Zergs and defending structures. They pick off and kill many stragglers.

Ele and Necro work at comparable ranges and deal so much more damage it’s not even funny. And this is all AoE ground target damage, not piercing arrows that will just get reflected by WoR, Magnetic Aura, or Mesmer dodges most of the time.

Hertz.1309:

They are the mobile and quick support. And when working in numbers can provide superior long distance fire for the guardians and such.

Thieves are significantly more mobile and eles can be both incredibly mobile and damaging. See above for point 2.

Hertz.1309:

Having rangers can change the tide of large scale battles and most won’t know they are the secret factor, mainly because people will say “ranger is kitten” (and thus won’t experience playing a ranger). no, they don’t have easy traits to master. But when you do. You’ll know you are the better player.

Not sure what tides the class is changing because I, almost on a nightly basis, watch BG guilds beat TC/JQ groups 2 times their size when I am literally the only ranger following the tag and the other side has half a dozen pewpew rangers.

The damage it puts out is simply too focused and requires a build that is too glassy with few “get out of jail free” skills to support it. The only reason thieves and mesmers get a pass is because thieves can effortlessly circle around and pick off stranglers and back line that fall back to recover while mesmer support in the form of portal and veil are essential for wvw.

Lets look at what the Range can bring for support.
1. Spirits – Bad enough before the mobility nerf.
2. Swiftness spam – See warrior warhorn and/or guardian symbol.
3. Regen spam – No where near potent enough to justify the amount of rangers needed to keep it up on the whole guild/zerg.
4. Spotter – A marked buff for the backline but does not offer a potent enough bonus and will not stack negating the need for more than 1 ranger even if it was.

It’s not a matter of mastering one to know it simply doesn’t outperform other classes nor does it bring anything unique to the fight.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

jewishjoyride.4693:

…Again the competitive scene is so small and to believe that it is the only true representation of what works just makes no sense. Especially so soon after the specializations patch. 2 months almost? That’s not enough time for peoples perceptions to match the actual reality of the class.

I’m not saying that it is the only true representation of what works. I’m saying that if there was any advantage in running Ranger over something else that is competitive PvP Meta, then someone in that circle would be running or at least heavily practising with it by now. It doesn’t take 2 months for people to look at the traits and see synergy or if the class has the things required for each role in a PvP team. You don’t need to play it to see that, you just need a good understanding of the game and the ability to read.

No it doesn’t take 2 months time to read traits. But it does take maybe longer than 2 months for someone to sit down and and change their pre conceptions about a class. Or to actually broaden their perspective on the state of the game. It actually has nothing to do with GW2 really but more to do with how people are in general.

Don’t get side tracked here. The thread is titled Ranger Hate. It’s not about what the specific differences between us and thief is. It’s about why and where and how people got the notion that Ranger is a bad class.

jewishjoyride.4693:

…Don’t get side tracked here. The thread is titled Ranger Hate. It’s not about what the specific differences between us and thief is. It’s about why and where and how people got the notion that Ranger is a bad class.

Ok. It is because in PvP people look at what Ranger brings. I’m sure when they looked at the options, they asked;

Does it have boon share? No.
Does it have group condi cleanse? No.
Does it have teleport mobility? No.
Does it have superior sustain? No.
Does it have utility? Somewhat.
Does it have great damage? Yes.

“Ok, well, that is 1 and a 1/2 out of 6, what role does damage have? My D/D ele already brings all 6. Why would I use a Ranger over a D/D ele?”

Since they thought of these things and didn’t play a Ranger because it didn’t bring enough to the table. So, if someone is playing Ranger, they hate them because they could be playing a D/D ele and have the other 4.5/6 points, helping the team more.

Ranger does have a lot of those things, but it cannot bring them all at the same time and attaining a couple of them makes the others even more unattainable in the build.

ehy folks!! i m recentrly rolled a ranger. I play exclusively pvp
I can t understand why ranger is considered so low tier.. i mean, the power one: the longbow has incredible strong skillset, easy and good stealth, super easy and low cd knocdown with a potential of 2 taunt
the GS has a good duel set up
i play necro, mesmer and main thief.. he s completely different from necro.. ok, mesmer are kinda OP right now, but compared to a thief, has an easier life
i m not a pro player, but this tier list seems to not be so fair..
and btw, thief community always complaints, necro complaints, ele complaints.. bloody hell!!
btw, guardian tier 7 :\ really??

Does it have boon share?
Fury, Might, Regen from pets. Swiftness, Regen from shouts off the top of my head
Does it have group condi cleanse?
HS, SoR, Brown Bear
Does it have teleport mobility?
No.
Does it have superior sustain?
Depends on the build. Condi/Regen bunker and evades can offer quite a bit.
Edit: And SoS, geez how can I forget that one.
Does it have utility?
Somewhat, with pets.
Does it have great damage?
Depends on the build, but yes they can.

Now I’m not saying this makes them meta or anything, but let’s at least acknowledge they do have access to some of these things.

Better Build IMO – click

Justine.6351:

Nerfing icebow would have been a mistake. When you see an icebow you pick it up. That’s how conjure weapons should be. That’s how environmental weapons in general should be.

If anything they should be an option lets say for instance a war runs sword/sheild GS then he should want to pick up the Ice Bow in a fight where range is required or when range makes it easier
they are supose to be that kind of option not a pure upgrade for EVERYONE that simple make the ability either overpowered or broken

Amins.3710:

Better Build IMO – click

I get what you’re going for, but your heal gets hard countered by poison and will sometimes require you to eat a poison or burn another utility to get an effective heal, not to mention in general losing the clear and source of fury, and you lose having on demand blinds for stomping (cancel casting the F2 gives you 5 second cooldown blinds, particularly effective on canines when you want the other effects but don’t want to burn the main F2) as well as 600 toughness on pets.

All for just a burst heal over an over time one and maintaining swiftness instead of a runeset, along with regen that keeps the 5% damage trait constantly active.

I mean, it has its merits and is an option, but you could just swap marauders to berserkers on the typical build and accomplish almost exactly the same thing.

Unless you’re arguing some of the utility being lost is worth doing what, around 10% more damage over a considerable enough sampling of time?

I mean that’s a fine build, but at this point, why not just swap out Nature Magic for Marksmanship and pick up Rampage as One as the elite (or whatever it’s called now, I’m blanking and responding on a phone) and Remorseless and just go all in on the damage? All you end up losing is some protection and close proximity weakness which you may not end up needing at the end of the day and a specific cleanse on dodge, which you’d be trading for flat out damage options.

I’m not trying to undermine you, you just kinda made a blanket statement and I’m genuinely curious to hear your thought process.

Gotchaz.7865:

It’s because Rangers have super fast burst power and AOE and piercing arrows so we can attack lords and hit tons of players making us loot kitten. We also have little to no group utilities to help out a zerg and this game is all about Zergs and who can drop the most combos. I love my Ranger and yes I’m a loot kitten

Much of what you said is fine, but when you say we have nothing to bring to groups, I have to stop you and stay bull.

My build brings might, swiftness, protection, reviving at lightening speed and more and I am SICK of people saying we don’t bring anything to the WvW/GvG “table”.

Some are starting to get the point that we are valuable, but some, like you, still need to be educated on what a Ranger can really do in a zerg or group.

Ranger hate isn’t going away until more people play Ranger and find the utility and fun and destroying-goodness of being one firsthand.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

jewishjoyride.4693:

…Don’t get side tracked here. The thread is titled Ranger Hate. It’s not about what the specific differences between us and thief is. It’s about why and where and how people got the notion that Ranger is a bad class.

Ok. It is because in PvP people look at what Ranger brings. I’m sure when they looked at the options, they asked;

.

I’m quite sure that ranger has been looked at by some of those players. I know for a fact phantaram has because I watched him stream ranger. The issue isn’t in the looking but in whether they recognized what they were looking at or not. There is a very simple truth that i think applies very well to this situation. You cannot expect someone to do more than what they already know. You can’t expect their knowledge to be deeper than what they can do.

If you ask me to play any other class than ranger I can go on meta battle and find a build. I can play it and after a few matches of figuring it out I can become successful. Win matches, fights, make plays etc…. I can look at that build’s traits and armor and skills and find synergy, I can follow the logic. If you asked me to do the same thing with the caveat that I couldn’t use metabattle I would be far less successful. I’d maybe find some good traits. I’d put something together that would work ok. But it wouldn’t be as efficient or as elegant as the meta build. I’m just not familiar enough with the class specific mechanics to spot the really good stuff.

When Phanta was streaming, and struggling to play a class he was unfamiliar with, I repeatedly said in stream chat that he should try 0,0,6,6,6 instead of what he was currently playing. Now Heim I’m sure that without me explaining what those numbers mean you already know which traitlines I’m referring to as well as the most likely traits I’d select in each line. Phanta did not. No idea. He politely asked me to name the trait lines as well as which traits in each line I’d recommend.

Just to reinforce the point I’m trying to make I recommend you watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNdekYNzvzA

If you know what you’re looking for it’s obvious. If you don’t then even if it stares you in the face you’ll never see it. There’s actually a name for this. Perceptual blindness.

I will say again the 2 months that have passed since the specializations update is nowhere near enough time to change perception of the class.

Substance E.4852:

Hertz.1309:

They are superb at bolstering Zergs and defending structures. They pick off and kill many stragglers.

Ele and Necro work at comparable ranges and deal so much more damage it’s not even funny. And this is all AoE ground target damage, not piercing arrows that will just get reflected by WoR, Magnetic Aura, or Mesmer dodges most of the time.

Hertz.1309:

They are the mobile and quick support. And when working in numbers can provide superior long distance fire for the guardians and such.

Thieves are significantly more mobile and eles can be both incredibly mobile and damaging. See above for point 2.

Hertz.1309:

Having rangers can change the tide of large scale battles and most won’t know they are the secret factor, mainly because people will say “ranger is kitten” (and thus won’t experience playing a ranger). no, they don’t have easy traits to master. But when you do. You’ll know you are the better player.

Not sure what tides the class is changing because I, almost on a nightly basis, watch BG guilds beat TC/JQ groups 2 times their size when I am literally the only ranger following the tag and the other side has half a dozen pewpew rangers.

The damage it puts out is simply too focused and requires a build that is too glassy with few “get out of jail free” skills to support it. The only reason thieves and mesmers get a pass is because thieves can effortlessly circle around and pick off stranglers and back line that fall back to recover while mesmer support in the form of portal and veil are essential for wvw.

Lets look at what the Range can bring for support.
1. Spirits – Bad enough before the mobility nerf.
2. Swiftness spam – See warrior warhorn and/or guardian symbol.
3. Regen spam – No where near potent enough to justify the amount of rangers needed to keep it up on the whole guild/zerg.
4. Spotter – A marked buff for the backline but does not offer a potent enough bonus and will not stack negating the need for more than 1 ranger even if it was.

It’s not a matter of mastering one to know it simply doesn’t outperform other classes nor does it bring anything unique to the fight.

Hm…Honestly I didn’t ask for class comparisons either. Yes, other classes can do better at a baseline, but out of that baseline it’s all purely hypotheticals. But, to label the ranger as an outcast is simple minded at best. Play the numbers as you see fit, however, you assume my context of support is purely group buffs..

And your single scenario of how rangers played out in WvW match is purely situational and neither a validation of how all rangers play WvW nor a rooted argument against the functional use of rangers.

jewishjoyride.4693:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

jewishjoyride.4693:

…Don’t get side tracked here. The thread is titled Ranger Hate. It’s not about what the specific differences between us and thief is. It’s about why and where and how people got the notion that Ranger is a bad class.

Ok. It is because in PvP people look at what Ranger brings. I’m sure when they looked at the options, they asked;

.

I’m quite sure that ranger has been looked at by some of those players. I know for a fact phantaram has because I watched him stream ranger. The issue isn’t in the looking but in whether they recognized what they were looking at or not. There is a very simple truth that i think applies very well to this situation. You cannot expect someone to do more than what they already know. You can’t expect their knowledge to be deeper than what they can do.

If you ask me to play any other class than ranger I can go on meta battle and find a build. I can play it and after a few matches of figuring it out I can become successful. Win matches, fights, make plays etc…. I can look at that build’s traits and armor and skills and find synergy, I can follow the logic. If you asked me to do the same thing with the caveat that I couldn’t use metabattle I would be far less successful. I’d maybe find some good traits. I’d put something together that would work ok. But it wouldn’t be as efficient or as elegant as the meta build. I’m just not familiar enough with the class specific mechanics to spot the really good stuff.

When Phanta was streaming, and struggling to play a class he was unfamiliar with, I repeatedly said in stream chat that he should try 0,0,6,6,6 instead of what he was currently playing. Now Heim I’m sure that without me explaining what those numbers mean you already know which traitlines I’m referring to as well as the most likely traits I’d select in each line. Phanta did not. No idea. He politely asked me to name the trait lines as well as which traits in each line I’d recommend.

Just to reinforce the point I’m trying to make I recommend you watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNdekYNzvzA

If you know what you’re looking for it’s obvious. If you don’t then even if it stares you in the face you’ll never see it. There’s actually a name for this. Perceptual blindness.

I will say again the 2 months that have passed since the specializations update is nowhere near enough time to change perception of the class.

very well put , non ranger players clearly forget Lingering magic+ clarions Bond and Windborne notes pumps out a blast every 24seconds and 2k heal over 12seconds(207healing power i currently have 334 with food ups to 2.42k hp regen) .

In addition to that Warhorn does the same equal to nearly one every active pet swap which is normaly every 25-30secs before the need to swap pets.

which equals perma, fury , swiftness, regen , 75% upkeep of 2might if you overlap them with two blasts , if combined with Beastmastery on zyphers speed that 4 might every pet swap also convets to 8 on the pet.

though Warhorn needs Fixing Epicly the traits bugged only provides 6secs regen and needs 3 might instead of 1.

the Potential is here for the ranger class , but right now It’s riddled with buggs and unbalanced Weapons like Warhorn synergy which is our Best Utility weapon that ironicly lacks decent support with the bugs going on.

warhorn would be perfect if windborne notes also removes one condition(for team support) , so we could provide one condi removal every 24secs with regen , might, fury, swiftness, this opens up builds that do not Require shouts+runes.

Warhorn 4 needs a defence effect like Blind 180 Radius around its target to provide some AoE ranged support .

if they don’t know what they see , they don’t know what is more effective and just end up taking the face vaule of the traits then wonder why they keep dying or question the damage while forgetting about pet postioning(blaming it on pathing for over extending the pets lesh) , which leads to the hate of the class, and hate of the pet.

which all this i just also typed out, Re-enforces your comment.

+1

(Anet fix these Bugs! and buff Warhorns Team support or Windborne notes to remove 1 condition)
the only thing we lack right now is decent party support which a Warhorn buff would greatly bring.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I’ll stand by my statement. If there was an advantage to running Ranger over something else, it would be all over the competitive scene. But it’s not.

It’s fun, though. And I’ll always love it.

Oh, we are in agreement here. While I think Ranger is powerful, I don’t think it has any clear advantage over anything else. Certainly not a big enough advantage (if there is one) for one of the competitive teams to make a switch. Quite a bit would have to change in the team composition and strategy to accommodate a Ranger (I am sure), so why take the risk?

I agree it’s fun and still hold hope that there is a possibility a team might be successful with one. It’s too early to tell, for sure though.