Guild Wars 2

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Durzlla.6295:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

18 seconds from where.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Protect_Me!%22

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stone

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forage_

Factor in all the evasion and blocks we have too and it’ll get much higher, not to mention we have what is probably the highest HPS in the game, and it’s far from bad even without healing power and the amount of CC our pets can pump out even while we’re downed/CCed is ridiculous.

NOTE the tooltip for elixir of heroes is wrong, it has been since beta, it lasts 6s not 3s.

The problem is items forage by your pet can be used by your enemy. The other problem with this is its to rng you don’t know what your going to get.

Like so many things with the ranger it looks good on paper but, in game not so much.

Bark skin in its current form is pretty sad one hit and its gone. So I have to use my defenses to keep my defense trait active. The trait may as well be: first hit is reduce by 33% if you have full life.

Protective warden is like warrior spiked armor but ours is a gm master. Its also in Nm so if we wanted to use it with bark skin we have to make sacrifices because they are in two different lines.

I have not had a single issue keeping barkskin active in just about every fight in PvP or PvE, then again I run a cele shout build and have more regen and healing than I know what to do with. I haven’t tried running a glassy build in a LONG time, so I’d imagine barkskin is a lot worse than it was for those builds.

However, I have used pigs quite a bit recently (more for kittens and giggles with their KD than anything else), and most players don’t expect the forage skill, so they don’t even bother hitting F, and if they DO grab it out little piggies will perform their AoE KD at point blank while they’re animation locked into picking it up, which screws them over big time. And the RNG doesn’t matter too much since you know what you’ll be getting for each pig. Normal Pigs you get something defensive (a baby heal spring, a 4K or so heal, and an invuln), board give you a form of hard CC, warthogs give you a really strong condi item (all of which have poison application), and then siamoth gives you a sort of fight or flight item, you either get AoE blind + stealth, or every boon in the game for like 10s.

Barkskin isn’t bad for zerk builds too. And comparing PW to warriors spiked armor, wtf? Those traits are completely different, only the ICD is the same, thats it. A WS/NM/BM zerk lb ranger is probably the zerk build with the second best survability in the game (best would be pu mesmer i guess).

Guys seriously, do you really play ranger? Are you reading after posting your comment?

The ones that keep telling themselves rangers has the best survivability in game stop playing kitten pewpew ranger from 1500 units and you will see how any skilled player with any class is a hard counter for the best ranger build.
You can get a tanky ranger, in a sense for a ranger because other classes get even tankier_, but will hit like a wet noddle. 1000 power and 500 condition damage (if any) will not take you anywhere but to steal stomps.

Listen to the reasonable and experienced rangers are saying here: Stop playing unranked PvP against noobs or Open world PvE and you will experience how subpar is the ranger.

I know most of the ranger is strong white knights here just play casual farming with this class and some random low level fractal/unranked PvP but please,
would you take this class seriously so we can concentrate in make the developers to fix it once for all?
will ya?

^
A cookie for Anduriel.
o/°
You earned it.

anduriell.6280:

The ones that keep telling themselves rangers has the best survivability in game stop playing kitten pewpew ranger from 1500 units and you will see how any skilled player with any class is a hard counter for the best ranger build.

No one is saying Rangers have the best survivability in the game. they are saying HP are about right for the tools we have.

The ability to go toe-to-toe in melee and come out on top might be a problem more on our damage output side (bad coefficients, crazy pets) than on our defensive side.

anduriell.6280:

Guys seriously, do you really play ranger? Are you reading after posting your comment?

The ones that keep telling themselves rangers has the best survivability in game stop playing kitten pewpew ranger from 1500 units and you will see how any skilled player with any class is a hard counter for the best ranger build.
You can get a tanky ranger, in a sense for a ranger because other classes get even tankier_, but will hit like a wet noddle. 1000 power and 500 condition damage (if any) will not take you anywhere but to steal stomps.

Listen to the reasonable and experienced rangers are saying here: Stop playing unranked PvP against noobs or Open world PvE and you will experience how subpar is the ranger.

I know most of the ranger is strong white knights here just play casual farming with this class and some random low level fractal/unranked PvP but please,
would you take this class seriously so we can concentrate in make the developers to fix it once for all?
will ya?

In my experience ranked and unranked matches have the same amount of good and bad players.

I’d actually say we have some of the best passive defenses and our active ways of defending ourselves are few and far between.

Also saying that any one thing is a hard counter to ranger is inaccurate since ranger is widely considered to be one of the best 1v1 classes in the game.

It’s interesting to read past topics about this, especially from the other side of the fence. The Engineer Forum had a similar topic awhile back, most having the consensus that they are fine with a medium health pool. Topic Here

Unfortunately, both topics from each side have opinions stating that an enlarged health pool solves nothing, when each OP is proposing reasons as to why their class should get the highest health pool of the medium armored professions over the other – never once proposing it to be a solution, but a minor buff.

Keep it going, though. I’m sure Irenio is reading and taking notes. If either Ranger or Engineer gets the extra vitality, I would love to know from Irenio which class he chose to be heads, and which one to be tails during the coin flip. x)

The only reason I’d support a higher healthpool is because our condi cleans is far worse than Engis, I.E. They have more options for it, and it kinda makes sense that the guy who spends all time in the wilderness is going to be a tad bit tougher than the guy who is tinkering with stuff all day.

And thief just makes no sense on having the highest since they have tons of evades, and specialize in mobility and thus getting out of the way of the blow, and not just absorbing the blow.

Tragic Positive.9356:

^
A cookie for Anduriel.
o/°
You earned it.

Thank you, i never ever decline a free cookie.

Any changes would be good. The OP (Opening Point) is that a bigger HP could solve some issues.
As i pointed out in another thread in this forums recently, could be enough making some changes in the trait lines and fixing the pets.
But until that is done any improvement is welcome any sign of Anet working to make this class more in line with the rest of the game is great news.

Durzlla.6295:

The only reason I’d support a higher healthpool is because our condi cleans is far worse than Engis, I.E. They have more options for it…

@Raven, the only real advantage a high healthpool really gives is having a bigger buffer for condis, and it seemed like the OP was saying if any medium prof should get it it’d be ranger, and I was saying why I thought rangers would be the one TO get it from the medium profs.

But I neither think we need, nor will get a high health pool and think we’re perfectly fine as is in the health and armor department. A few of our defensive abilities and traits could use some love, but overall I feel were solid.

Thieves aren’t as invisible AND invincible as you think, we don’t have ‘spammable’ evades anymore, unless you mean Daredevil; as that’ll be like the old Acro traitline.
So our survivability relies on Shadow Arts (if you trait for it), mobility and skill.

I do think it’s tougher to kill a mesmer these days though (they are med hp). In terms of WvW/PvP, I do think once they remove applied fortitude from wvw, a higher healthpool would help more squishy classes.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I do think it’s tougher to kill a mesmer these days though. In terms of WvW, I do think once they remove applied fortitude, a higher healthpool would help more squishy classes.

Actually this is a good point. Its easy to forget that extra 2.5k hp. That would make it more likely for thief to get the bump though.

Archon.6480:

This is a strange thread. Please see the Heim’s 50 build list thread. Settler is arguably one of the best amulets for PvP Rangers now. I can’t remember the last time I lost a 1v1 or 2v2 with it, and I queue Ranked every day.

Rangers have no evasion? I don’t understand. Maybe you should elaborate?

sure let me explain. we play the game at completely different levels. at my level, I am not able to make low HP amulets work, and no other ranger is. any build with less than 20K HP will get you instagibbed. when my queue pops after 7-10mins, I play against/with the top players in the game. at least this was the case a month ago when I last logged in. I didn’t ask for it, and I’m not bragging, but this is where I’m coming from. I’m not interested in arguing about hotjoin builds and low MMR antics.

settler build(s) were gutted on June 23rd. we lost about 2k HP from NM, so at 16k HP and 3k armor, the ranger can almost get one-shot by a good Mesmer. also with 16K HP, youre shredded by condis. a few stray burn stacks, and youre done. competitively, settler, knights, cavalier and any other ammies without vit are completely useless. in WvW, this is less of an issue as you can mix stats. only marauder, and to a lesser extent valk and celestial, are viable stat choices for spvp.

increasing ranger’s base HP would open up a lot of builds, and make the current marauder builds competitive (which they aren’t currently, despite the best rangers in the game using them). of course, this is assuming our bad weapons stay bad. I doubt we will see any revamps for HoT as they’ve got their hands full. so I’m not taking weapon buffs into consideration.

I also want to clarify I’m talking about health pool, not healing power or heals per second (HPS). I thought this would be obvious.

Durzlla.6295:

@Raven, the only real advantage a high healthpool really gives is having a bigger buffer for condis, and it seemed like the OP was saying if any medium prof should get it it’d be ranger, and I was saying why I thought rangers would be the one TO get it from the medium profs.

But I neither think we need, nor will get a high health pool and think we’re perfectly fine as is in the health and armor department. A few of our defensive abilities and traits could use some love, but overall I feel were solid.

I was balking at the part where you said engi’s were better at clearing their condis than ranger.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Unfortunately, both topics from each side have opinions stating that an enlarged health pool solves nothing, when each OP is proposing reasons as to why their class should get the highest health pool of the medium armored professions over the other – never once proposing it to be a solution, but a minor buff.

well, to me the choice is very simple. thieves have the stealth mechanic, and good engie builds use 3-4 invulns/blocks, or even stealth. we’re talking complete damage avoidance here. other than SoS, rangers don’t have anything else that is viable. sword, dagger and evasion spamming are generally not used because defending without attacking or leaving the area is totally unproductive and inevitably leads to death.

to me, the ranger is the only attrition prof of the 3. the other two have multiple damage avoidance tools. as do all the other profs except necro. I think we can all agree that the ranger is the most incomplete and non-sensical prof from a design perspective in the game. giving it some extra HP would make it an “evasive warrior” which is what it feels like right now anyway.

mistsim.2748:

Archon.6480:

This is a strange thread. Please see the Heim’s 50 build list thread. Settler is arguably one of the best amulets for PvP Rangers now. I can’t remember the last time I lost a 1v1 or 2v2 with it, and I queue Ranked every day.

Rangers have no evasion? I don’t understand. Maybe you should elaborate?

sure let me explain. we play the game at completely different levels. at my level, I am not able to make low HP amulets work, and no other ranger is. any build with less than 20K HP will get you instagibbed. when my queue pops after 7-10mins, I play against/with the top players in the game. at least this was the case a month ago when I last logged in. I didn’t ask for it, and I’m not bragging, but this is where I’m coming from. I’m not interested in arguing about hotjoin builds and low MMR antics.

settler build(s) were gutted on June 23rd. we lost about 2k HP from NM, so at 16k HP and 3k armor, the ranger can almost get one-shot by a good Mesmer. also with 16K HP, youre shredded by condis. a few stray burn stacks, and youre done. competitively, settler, knights, cavalier and any other ammies without vit are completely useless. in WvW, this is less of an issue as you can mix stats. only marauder, and to a lesser extent valk and celestial, are viable stat choices for spvp.

increasing ranger’s base HP would open up a lot of builds, and make the current marauder builds competitive (which they aren’t currently, despite the best rangers in the game using them). of course, this is assuming our bad weapons stay bad. I doubt we will see any revamps for HoT as they’ve got their hands full. so I’m not taking weapon buffs into consideration.

I also want to clarify I’m talking about health pool, not healing power or heals per second (HPS). I thought this would be obvious.

This must be why there aren’t many ranger at a high lvl. It seems to be rangers at that level are more concern with stay alive with no skill on their part. Anyone can be insta- downed if they are not paying attention.

So all the other classes must be doing the same thing but, they’re not. So what is it that these other classes have or that the ranger lack that is the source of problem.

Or is simply the way we play the class. I think it’s a combination of a 3.

To me, I’m not so sure. If a decision were to be made of making either Ranger or Engineer have the highest health pool, it could all boil down to thematic reasons from Anet rather than available utility.

On that note, I’ve seen arguments on both sides. Ranger being the high health choice due to the survivalist nature of living in the wilderness, and Engineers involving technology that can amplify their sturdiness (due to the armor classification, vitality is used as a substitute) since some consider the class a hybrid of both medium and heavy armored themes.

The one for Engineers seems to be more of a stretch, but to each their own. Carry on!

I agree with a high HP ranger. I also want pets to have the PvE HP in WvW and PvP.

Raven.9603:

Durzlla.6295:

@Raven, the only real advantage a high healthpool really gives is having a bigger buffer for condis, and it seemed like the OP was saying if any medium prof should get it it’d be ranger, and I was saying why I thought rangers would be the one TO get it from the medium profs.

But I neither think we need, nor will get a high health pool and think we’re perfectly fine as is in the health and armor department. A few of our defensive abilities and traits could use some love, but overall I feel were solid.

I was balking at the part where you said engi’s were better at clearing their condis than ranger.

My engi has always had an easier time with condis than my ranger has, but that’s probably because engi has on demand condi cleanse where our big condi “cleanser” is a passive 3 condis every 10s and it doesn’t even cleanse them.

mistsim.2748:

well, to me the choice is very simple. thieves have the stealth mechanic, and good engie builds use 3-4 invulns/blocks, or even stealth. we’re talking complete damage avoidance here. other than SoS, rangers don’t have anything else that is viable. sword, dagger and evasion spamming are generally not used because defending without attacking or leaving the area is totally unproductive and inevitably leads to death.

Thieves/Engis can’t attack or defend points while they are in stealth/invulnerable. Ranger can do those things, while using SoS or evades. So, what did you want to say with this contradictory statement?

Durzlla.6295:

My engi has always had an easier time with condis than my ranger has, but that’s probably because engi has on demand condi cleanse where our big condi “cleanser” is a passive 3 condis every 10s and it doesn’t even cleanse them.

EB sucks, but SotF/WK + some survival skills offer decent condi remove.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

mistsim.2748:

well, to me the choice is very simple. thieves have the stealth mechanic, and good engie builds use 3-4 invulns/blocks, or even stealth. we’re talking complete damage avoidance here. other than SoS, rangers don’t have anything else that is viable. sword, dagger and evasion spamming are generally not used because defending without attacking or leaving the area is totally unproductive and inevitably leads to death.

Thieves/Engis can’t attack or defend points while they are in stealth/invulnerable. Ranger can do those things, while using SoS or evades. So, what did you want to say with this contradictory statement?

Durzlla.6295:

My engi has always had an easier time with condis than my ranger has, but that’s probably because engi has on demand condi cleanse where our big condi “cleanser” is a passive 3 condis every 10s and it doesn’t even cleanse them.

EB sucks, but SotF/WK + some survival skills offer decent condi remove.

Yes, SotF with survival skills is good, but that not only forces you into a specific traitline, but also forces you into using a specific set of utilities, which is why i didn’t include it.

Durzlla.6295:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

mistsim.2748:

well, to me the choice is very simple. thieves have the stealth mechanic, and good engie builds use 3-4 invulns/blocks, or even stealth. we’re talking complete damage avoidance here. other than SoS, rangers don’t have anything else that is viable. sword, dagger and evasion spamming are generally not used because defending without attacking or leaving the area is totally unproductive and inevitably leads to death.

Thieves/Engis can’t attack or defend points while they are in stealth/invulnerable. Ranger can do those things, while using SoS or evades. So, what did you want to say with this contradictory statement?

Durzlla.6295:

My engi has always had an easier time with condis than my ranger has, but that’s probably because engi has on demand condi cleanse where our big condi “cleanser” is a passive 3 condis every 10s and it doesn’t even cleanse them.

EB sucks, but SotF/WK + some survival skills offer decent condi remove.

Yes, SotF with survival skills is good, but that not only forces you into a specific traitline, but also forces you into using a specific set of utilities, which is why i didn’t include it.

Since when does engineer condition removal not force you into a specific traitline and specific utilities? Without alchemy/elixirs, you get 2 conditions removed every 15-20 seconds.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Durzlla.6295:

Currently the game isn’t even won with skill, it’s won by whoever has the most D/D eles.

Sad but true.

And 1shot mesmers.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Thieves/Engis can’t attack or defend points while they are in stealth/invulnerable. Ranger can do those things, while using SoS or evades. So, what did you want to say with this contradictory statement?

uh conquest is won with team fights. id leave decapping/holding to thieves and dedicated bunkers (currently d/d eles and some guards). we’re mostly concerned about killing, resetting fights, and sustaining here.

mistsim.2748:

Archon.6480:

This is a strange thread. Please see the Heim’s 50 build list thread. Settler is arguably one of the best amulets for PvP Rangers now. I can’t remember the last time I lost a 1v1 or 2v2 with it, and I queue Ranked every day.

Rangers have no evasion? I don’t understand. Maybe you should elaborate?

sure let me explain.
…blah, blah, I am the best…
I’m not interested in arguing about hotjoin builds and low MMR antics.
(read: And you are bad so your point is also pointless)

…burning and Mesmer spike can kill a Ranger fast… (yeah right, that’s soo unique to Ranger…)

increasing ranger’s base HP would open up a lot of builds, and make the current marauder builds competitive (which they aren’t currently, despite the best rangers in the game using them).
This is true. Ranger’s running Maruader and LB are rally bait. If the Best Rangers are using this they are unwise.

I also want to clarify I’m talking about health pool, not healing power or heals per second (HPS). I thought this would be obvious.
This is not related to anything I said, voices in your head maybe?

You also dodged (pun intended) the very valid and true, single point, I made: Rangers don’t have no evasion.

In fact, if you are not taking advantage of Ranger evasion, you are most certainly nerfing yourself. Dodge rolling feeds protection, combined with regen and vigor, feed massive damage reduction against direct damage. If you can then manage to find a safe way to remove conditions, you are doing well. This is Ranger 101.

Yes, currently every tier of classes except medium tier have category of low, medium, high hp classes, it is most logical that ranger takes that role.

mistsim.2748:

…and good engie builds use 3-4 invulns/blocks, or even stealth. we’re talking complete damage avoidance here. other than SoS, rangers don’t have anything else that is viable. sword, dagger and evasion spamming are generally not used because defending without attacking or leaving the area is totally unproductive and inevitably leads to death.

“Defending without attacking” is exactly what engy blocks, elixir S, etc do, which is why elixir S especially is very hit and miss, it is great in that if 3 guys try to blow you up you can ignore all that damage, on the other hand because you can’t use any skills under elxir S it is often pretty useless and just delays the inevitable, e.g – the elxir S trait triggers at 25% you run / try to LOS for 3 secs, immediately as you come out you get blown up anyway,

Things like endure pain and SoS are frankly much better most of the time as you can either apply counter pressure or use movement skills, knockbacks, LB 3, etc to have a much better chance of disengaging, they also don’t prevent capture point contribution.