Guild Wars 2

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I do use Devourers for Archdiviner, they never ever die, like I said. But a lot of the time I’ll use drakes if the encounter is difficult. In regular dungons, I’ll run with Stalker/Jag though. A lot of the time, ranged pets are not suitable because you want to stack, obviously.

My Devourer is doing way more damage than your dead jag. Dealt.

I personally like birds as they’re not that obtrusive and still do a good amount of damage (plus they have swiftness).

As far as stacking, in most cases, so long as people aren’t completely anal about “stack here NAO!”, I can wait for the target(s) to become engaged and use that initial time to position my pet so that he’s close enough to melee the target(s) but usually doesn’t get all of the cleave. If the target is constantly moving then all the arguing is moot. If the target ends up mostly stationary (because you’re stacking lol) then you can use stationary positioning to your advantage. But it gets trickier if you’re stacking in a corner (for whatever reason)…

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Actually, I never said I couldn’t keep pets alive. Feel free to reread my posts. I said they die faster in melee, which is true. Not to mention just because you don’t get why people like to play Ranger without the pet doesn’t mean anything. If I was a betting man I’d wager there are players that play Guardian and don’t want to use Virtues. To repeat myself: I can micro manage my pets just fine. If you want to see for yourself, please feel free to come run a lvl 50 fract with me.

Then what’s the problem? lol

So Ranger pets work just fine in high fractals. Scratch that off of the pet “problem” which only leaves WvW zergs. That is definitely a plus for Rangers + pet.

I’m sorry, did I say they work just fine in high level fractals? Nope. I didn’t. They are far from perfect. I have to work much harder on my Ranger to keep the profession mechanic up than I do on say, my guaridan, warrior, thief, or ele.

But nice try.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I’m sorry, did I say they work just fine in high level fractals? Nope. I didn’t. They are far from perfect. I have to work much harder on my Ranger to keep the profession mechanic up than I do on say, my guaridan, warrior, thief, or ele.

But nice try.

So you’re saying you want easy-cheeze like Ele camping fire attunement, Warrior hoarding adrenaline or skill spam + stealth + steal.

Not belittling those professions, but Ranger doesn’t get nothing from his profession mechanic. Even if it requires more performance-wise, it doesn’t make the profession or the mechanic bad. It just means it’s not for everyone. Not everybody can manage to play a Mesmer either.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Actually, I never said I couldn’t keep pets alive. Feel free to reread my posts. I said they die faster in melee, which is true. Not to mention just because you don’t get why people like to play Ranger without the pet doesn’t mean anything. If I was a betting man I’d wager there are players that play Guardian and don’t want to use Virtues. To repeat myself: I can micro manage my pets just fine. If you want to see for yourself, please feel free to come run a lvl 50 fract with me.

You are right, I apologise for miss quoting you, you did not say you couldn’t keep pets alive. Although if they die faster in melee, that is kinda the same thing?

I was basing my assumption of your pets inevitable death on this;

I really thought they’d keep the 5% from pet on it given how quickly they die… not like you’re going to have that 5% all that long anyway.

And this;

Since I melee most of the time and use melee pets that can’t dodge like I can, they die faster since if you press F3 they just stand next to you and get cleaved to death.

But either way, the part I don’t get the most is your obvious dislike for pets when you can complete F50’s with jaguars, a notoriously fragile pet without them dying. Meleeing Archdiviner, no less. If that is the case, what’s wrong with them? If you can complete probably the hardest PvE content in the game without them dying, where’s the problem?

Leo G.4501:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I’m sorry, did I say they work just fine in high level fractals? Nope. I didn’t. They are far from perfect. I have to work much harder on my Ranger to keep the profession mechanic up than I do on say, my guaridan, warrior, thief, or ele.

But nice try.

So you’re saying you want easy-cheeze like Ele camping fire attunement, Warrior hoarding adrenaline or skill spam + stealth + steal.

Not belittling those professions, but Ranger doesn’t get nothing from his profession mechanic. Even if it requires more performance-wise, it doesn’t make the profession or the mechanic bad. It just means it’s not for everyone. Not everybody can manage to play a Mesmer either.

In an ideal game, all the profs would be roughly the same difficulty, have the same new player friendliness and scope for improvement.

This is a game with PVP, after all.

It shouldn’t be far harder to play one class than another, especially in PVP, as that isn’t fair is it?

It might be OK if everyone was only interested in playing classes according to how easy, or hard, they were; but that is not why most people pick a class, in games.

Most people pick a class because they are interested in it.

So, they might have an affinity with pets, or an affinity with magic, for example.

Or they might like archery, or staves.

Or they might like the idea of being a valiant knight, or a barbaric warrior, or a mechanical expert, or whatever…

If you reduce a game to “noob friendly class a)”, or “hard to play class b)” and expect people to pick accordingly (and ignore their personal preferences), you are removing so much of the potential fun, it’s borderline criminal.

Same goes (to a slightly lesser extent) for things like weapon, spec and even pet choices.

If you’re stuck using classes, specs, weapons and/or pets you don’t like very much, that will reduce the potential fun you could have otherwise had by a heck of a lot.

Leo G.4501:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Actually, I never said I couldn’t keep pets alive. Feel free to reread my posts. I said they die faster in melee, which is true. Not to mention just because you don’t get why people like to play Ranger without the pet doesn’t mean anything. If I was a betting man I’d wager there are players that play Guardian and don’t want to use Virtues. To repeat myself: I can micro manage my pets just fine. If you want to see for yourself, please feel free to come run a lvl 50 fract with me.

Then what’s the problem? lol

So Ranger pets work just fine in high fractals. Scratch that off of the pet “problem” which only leaves WvW zergs. That is definitely a plus for Rangers + pet.

I don’t know, as I have never done a high level fractal, but I doubt very much that they do…

I think it’s safe to say that they, almost certainly, just give the group their buff and then die almost immediately.

The problem is, like someone else was saying, people are letting their egos get in the way, here.

If one person says their pets don’t die, almost everyone else suddenly thinks they have to say it, otherwise they will look like they are a less good player, or something.

Fortunately, I have so little ego in this department that it’s virtually unmeasurable.

I’m more than happy to say I’m still a new to this game and I’m more that happy to tell the whole truth about anything I have noticed about it, including my general observations on pet life spans.

Tigaseye.2047:

If you reduce a game to “noob friendly class a)”, or “hard to play class b)” and expect people to pick accordingly (and ignore their personal preferences), you are removing so much of the potential fun, it’s borderline criminal.

Same goes (to a slightly lesser extent) for things like weapon, spec and even pet choices.

If you’re stuck using classes, specs, weapons and/or pets you don’t like very much, that will reduce the potential fun you could have otherwise had by a heck of a lot.

I can hear where you’re coming from and in some respects, I agree. However that’s just not how the game is made or built. I’d like the game to be changed in various ways and think it could definitely be improved but at the end of the day I also accept the game for what it does right despite its flaws.

You can’t expect the game to be as simple as Axe Signet Warrior. It’s just not going to happen across all professions and specs. Some professions and specs will be harder to play than others while others are drop-dead easy. That’s kind of how the game is designed in a way that if you aren’t that great of a player, you can gravitate to the easier styles. Usually every profession has those types of builds to make play as simple to grasp as possible, but then you also have the more complex and tougher to manage builds like a glass rifle Warrior (by comparison to your Axe sig warrior) which has its own strengths and weaknesses and is tougher to get better performance from. Does that make gameplay bad? (yeah, I know rifle is bad but it can do some crazy ranged sniping which you cannot do with axe/bow) Or does it just provide challenge?

It’s honestly up to the player, I suppose. As for the context of the topic, Ranger does have an easy mode playstyle. It won’t be optimal, just like many other easy mode styles.

Leo G.4501:

Tigaseye.2047:

If you reduce a game to “noob friendly class a)”, or “hard to play class b)” and expect people to pick accordingly (and ignore their personal preferences), you are removing so much of the potential fun, it’s borderline criminal.

Same goes (to a slightly lesser extent) for things like weapon, spec and even pet choices.

If you’re stuck using classes, specs, weapons and/or pets you don’t like very much, that will reduce the potential fun you could have otherwise had by a heck of a lot.

I can hear where you’re coming from and in some respects, I agree. However that’s just not how the game is made or built. I’d like the game to be changed in various ways and think it could definitely be improved but at the end of the day I also accept the game for what it does right despite its flaws.

You can’t expect the game to be as simple as Axe Signet Warrior. It’s just not going to happen across all professions and specs. Some professions and specs will be harder to play than others while others are drop-dead easy. That’s kind of how the game is designed in a way that if you aren’t that great of a player, you can gravitate to the easier styles. Usually every profession has those types of builds to make play as simple to grasp as possible, but then you also have the more complex and tougher to manage builds like a glass rifle Warrior (by comparison to your Axe sig warrior) which has its own strengths and weaknesses and is tougher to get better performance from. Does that make gameplay bad? (yeah, I know rifle is bad but it can do some crazy ranged sniping which you cannot do with axe/bow) Or does it just provide challenge?

It’s honestly up to the player, I suppose. As for the context of the topic, Ranger does have an easy mode playstyle. It won’t be optimal, just like many other easy mode styles.

You may be right but, in which case, it may well be that I will just have to part company with the game, sooner or later.

I’m already down to just doing WvW – although, I have been doing a lot of it, but I doubt my interest in even that will last forever.

In that case, it’s more that I’m quite interested in gradually learning the strategy (without “cheating” and looking anything up) more than anything.

I’m just not a theorycrafter, or an avid follower of other people’s theorycrafting.

I like games where you choose what you want to play for the right reasons and learn as you play – not just choose the easy/OP choice and try to learn everything before you play, like doing boring homework.

When I first started playing WoW, it had very unequal specs and a complicated talent tree, with so many red herrings it was like a bear trap for new players.

Same with glyphs, to an extent – some were far more useful than others.

Then they gave it an overhaul and all the specs became far more equal and viable, but still retained (or even increased) their individual flavour.

The talent choices became true choices, between equally valid equivalents, with no wrong choices available.

Some people thought that was less interesting and I guess it was in some ways (and/or for the occasional class), but most people thought it was an improvement, for most classes.

So, at that point, the real challenge, for a newer player, was really learning to use all the spells in their spell book.

That was still a challenge and a longer term goal, in itself, as there were a lot of spells to learn and even then, you still had to figure out when best to use them.

That, to me, is far more fun.

As I say, I’m not a theory crafter and I dislike looking stuff up online.

I like learning for myself.

I probably could do it, if my life depended on it, but I’m just not really interested in that side of things.

That’s the side of things I want done for me, in advance.

That is the side I don’t want newer players to have to worry about and older players to feel they have to lecture newer players on.

The whole having to lecture thing just breeds contempt and removes fun, on both sides.

It makes many newer and older players avoid each other, in small PVE groups, whenever possible.

I want equal, interesting, viable choices and to be able to choose what I prefer to play; not what I am forced to choose out of total necessity.

I don’t want to have to work out which is the red herring – I want the devs to get rid of any red herrings for me.

To me, that is their job, not mine (or any other player’s).

Most people just end up looking all these things up, anyway.

So unless you (not you, specifically – anyone) are one of the very few who does it all themselves, with a spreadsheet (and thoroughly enjoys it), what is the point, other than to unnecessarily confuse newer players?

I would say there is none.

I feel like I’ve rambled slightly off topic here…

But, you get the general gist.

@Tigaseye.2047:
Before you continue making such long posts about how everything should be just as easy / “noob friendly” / etc..

… please take look at this video:

Also, while you want the devs to “remove red herrings” … that assumes they know what all of those are and how to remove them without inhibiting the abilities of those at the higher skill levels.

What is so wrong with letting players have a bit more control? Letting players make mistakes? Let players make choices even if some of those choices are less optimal than others.

Let people us their brains however they want and reap the results.

A disclaimer before I reply: I have never played WoW (while I don’t dislike older games, I prefer to experiment with newer stuff) and I don’t like WvW. I mainly jump into PvP and stick with PvE and dungeons.

Tigaseye.2047:

In that case, it’s more that I’m quite interested in gradually learning the strategy (without “cheating” and looking anything up) more than anything.

I’m just not a theorycrafter, or an avid follower of other people’s theorycrafting.

I like games where you choose what you want to play for the right reasons and learn as you play – not just choose the easy/OP choice and try to learn everything before you play, like doing boring homework.

FYI, I have never looked at meta builds, just read about what they do. It’s easy to then decipher exactly what the build might use to accomplish that. That all said, using pre-defined builds isn’t a necessity. I don’t do it and I seem to get by just fine. Granted, I’m sort of a theorycrafter but only in the sense that I like to look at traits and gear and see what I could scrounge together on a budget to do what I want it to do.

In this game, I feel that choosing to play with a specific build tends to be limited by time and money. If you have the time to build all celestial gear or craft specific backpieces and such, it’s your choice. But you don’t need to buy the best gear to get great performance, you can manage with cheaper runes/sigils and use a more generic set of armor.

As far as “cheating” or whatever, I suppose it depends what you mean. There are certain ‘exploits’ that allow you to do damage to AI while ‘tricking’ them into attacking less often, if that’s what you mean. If you mean the true exploits, yeah, it gets on my nerves but every game will have its share.

As far as redherrings in GW2, which ones are? If we’re talking in the context of Ranger and pets, I’m not really following. To anyone who’s experimented with their different pets, they’ll get a feel for what the ones they like can do and accomplish so you can adjust as you learn. Would you consider the Pig pets as redherrings? Or maybe you mean certain traits?

Leo G.4501:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I’m sorry, did I say they work just fine in high level fractals? Nope. I didn’t. They are far from perfect. I have to work much harder on my Ranger to keep the profession mechanic up than I do on say, my guaridan, warrior, thief, or ele.

But nice try.

So you’re saying you want easy-cheeze like Ele camping fire attunement, Warrior hoarding adrenaline or skill spam + stealth + steal.

No. Not what I’m saying. If that was what I was saying it would look like this:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I want easy-cheeze like Ele camping fire attunement, Warrior hoarding adrenaline or skill spam + stealth + steal.

But you don’t see that above because that’s not what I said. So, again, nice try.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Actually, I never said I couldn’t keep pets alive. Feel free to reread my posts. I said they die faster in melee, which is true. Not to mention just because you don’t get why people like to play Ranger without the pet doesn’t mean anything. If I was a betting man I’d wager there are players that play Guardian and don’t want to use Virtues. To repeat myself: I can micro manage my pets just fine. If you want to see for yourself, please feel free to come run a lvl 50 fract with me.

You are right, I apologise for miss quoting you, you did not say you couldn’t keep pets alive. Although if they die faster in melee, that is kinda the same thing?

I was basing my assumption of your pets inevitable death on this;

I really thought they’d keep the 5% from pet on it given how quickly they die… not like you’re going to have that 5% all that long anyway.

And this;

Since I melee most of the time and use melee pets that can’t dodge like I can, they die faster since if you press F3 they just stand next to you and get cleaved to death.

But either way, the part I don’t get the most is your obvious dislike for pets when you can complete F50’s with jaguars, a notoriously fragile pet without them dying. Meleeing Archdiviner, no less. If that is the case, what’s wrong with them? If you can complete probably the hardest PvE content in the game without them dying, where’s the problem?

No, it’s not the same thing.. It’s an assumption or jumping to conclusion that they are the same thing. Do I have 100% uptime with my pets? No, I never claimed to be perfect with micromanaging them 100% of the time, especially after half a bottle of Wild Turkey 101. I’m willing to wager, though, that my pets are alive much more than they are dead and on a 60 sec CD, even the fragile ones. What would really help my pets stay alive is if they got 1-2 sec of evade frames EXACTLY when I dodged — so that they “dodge” at the same time I do and that would go a long way to helping my melee pets die not as fast. But, I don’t think I should have to give up my build for something that should be baseline since they aren’t going to give us perfect AI or more control. When we get the new trait system that’ll probably help too assuming the pet gets the base stat increase.

My dislike of pets mostly stems from poor AI, 2+ years of it. For me not to think of it as poor AI it really has to anticipate what I want it to be doing at any given time. I know this is impossible for Anet, as evident by Dev posts in the Ranger CDI. What is possible, though, is to give me enough control over my pet so I can micromanage it into doing what I want it to do when I want it to do it and where to do it from (when I’m sober at least). I don’t think I should have to give up the way I like to play (my build, utilities, etc) for that to happen. Until that perfect AI code or more control over happens pets will always been a poor preforming class mechanic in my eyes because the AI code simply doesn’t have the intelligence part coded well enough.

EDIT: After thinking about it a little bit more I could probably achieve nearly 100% up time if I had 1-2 sec evade frames on the pet when I dodged… while sober of course

Mate, nobody is ever going to code an allied AI for a computer game that will be able to anticipate what you want it to be doing in real-time.

I know I know. I know it’s impossible… but they can make up for it through much more control and giving my pet some evade frames while I dodge :P

The pet getting 1.5s of evade at the same time we dodge should be baseline, I agree on that whole heartedly. That would solve so many problems.

Aye, the pet gaining distortion or something similar when we dodge roll would be nice. Anything else such as the pet itself performing a dodge as well would impact AI.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Leo G.4501:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I’m sorry, did I say they work just fine in high level fractals? Nope. I didn’t. They are far from perfect. I have to work much harder on my Ranger to keep the profession mechanic up than I do on say, my guaridan, warrior, thief, or ele.

But nice try.

So you’re saying you want easy-cheeze like Ele camping fire attunement, Warrior hoarding adrenaline or skill spam + stealth + steal.

No. Not what I’m saying. If that was what I was saying it would look like this:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

I want easy-cheeze like Ele camping fire attunement, Warrior hoarding adrenaline or skill spam + stealth + steal.

But you don’t see that above because that’s not what I said. So, again, nice try.

Don’t think you ‘get’ what I’m trying to say. You say you don’t want to “work harder” to keep your profession mechanic up, then compare it to professions that don’t have a profession mechanic to “keep up”. It’s comparing apples to truck tires. Unless you want a profession mechanic that is just there when you decide to press that F button.

If that were the case, why pick a profession whose mechanic is managing a pet to fight beside you?

Yeah, I wouldn’t want the pet to actually move, just get the evade effects.

aka, you want the “immunity frames”.

Sebrent.3625:

@Tigaseye.2047:
Before you continue making such long posts about how everything should be just as easy / “noob friendly” / etc..

… please take look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Also, while you want the devs to “remove red herrings” … that assumes they know what all of those are and how to remove them without inhibiting the abilities of those at the higher skill levels.

What is so wrong with letting players have a bit more control? Letting players make mistakes? Let players make choices even if some of those choices are less optimal than others.

Let people us their brains however they want and reap the results.

I didn’t make a post just saying that everything should be “noob friendly”, I made a post saying that they should be equal in other ways, too.

So, everything should also have the same scope for improvement, as well.

I know it was a long post – I said as much myself, but I was trying to directly answer the other poster and also give a more general idea where I was coming from to him/her, specifically.

You didn’t need to read it all, as it clearly wasn’t a general comment, or aimed at you.

Sorry, but nothing will change my mind, on this.

I know exactly where I stand on this subject (and where I have always stood) and that is that choices, in a game, should be equal ones and based on personal preferences.

Not based on “Which will make it easiest for me to win, all the time?”, or “How can I intentionally kitten myself, so I probably lose most of the time?”.

Not based on “Am I a new player?”, or “Am I an experienced player?”.

Your experience (or lack of it) should be expressed via how well you actually play and whether you use your skills at optimal times, or not.

For one thing, most newer players won’t even know that is how it is “designed” to be and will be drawn into making mistakes without even realising it, just to be disappointed later.

That’s not “using your brain”, or having “control”, it’s not even being left to make your own “mistakes”.

That’s just being badly misled by the game, pure and simple – because it presents all the “choices” as equal ones.

There is nothing telling a new player “Don’t pick this, or that class (or traitline, or whatever) if you’re new, because it’s inferior and/or far harder than the others.”.

There is nothing saying “You know we gave you that bow when you started? Well, forget the idea of using that in most group PVE later, as it does far less damage in the stack you will be permanently in.”.

So, most will just pick what they like and then feel at least somewhat betrayed, when they later find out they’re all totally uneven and the supposed “choices” aren’t fair ones.

That is bad design, whichever way you look at it.

Oh and if the devs involved don’t know which are the red herrings, it’s about time they did.

It’s their specific job to know all that stuff.

…and if it’s so overcomplicated that even the people who designed it and are supposed to manage it don’t know what is going on, then really…?

Life-tip:
If you get to a point where nothing will change your mind about something that isn’t a moral… you’ve dug yourself a bad hole and are honestly just being stubborn/ignorant.

Your post shows a perception where you think everything should have been already thought up by the developers and the players just led by the hand the whole way.

I’m sorry, but welcome to the real world where what you’re asking for is largely infeasible given the sheer complexity, resource constraints, etc.

Not to mention actual good game design.

Did you even watch the bloody video?

That is often touted as one of the best explanations of this topic … and your reaction is “nothing is ever going to change my mind on this.”

Which begs me to ask … are you some experienced game developer? Or an experienced developer at all? Or even some sort of engineer with experience with construction/development?

What exactly makes you feel so qualified in your belief in how things should be? I’d love to know.

As far as it being “bad design” that a given choice is worse than another choice in differing situations … seriously?!

Knowing the ins-and-outs of when the different choices are [sub-]optimal is part of becoming a good player in a game.

They are part of that “knowledge” and “skill” that separate an experienced player from a new player. They are what a new player generally aspires to acquire.

Have I stepped off into the twilight zone?

Are you wanting them to just say “here’s a board with a nail in it… it’s all you’ll ever need because it’s optimal in all situations … and your only option”.

Or are you wanting them to say “hey, you just stepped into PvE where people often stack and cleave down groups of mobs, I’m going to force you to make the right decision because I assume you’re not smart enough to do it on your own”.

Just good grief.

“…Are you wanting them to just say “here’s a board with a nail in it… it’s all you’ll ever need because it’s optimal in all situations…”

From the Simpson’s; I thought of the episode as soon as I read that hahaha!

“That board with a nail in it may have defeated us, but the humans won’t stop there. They’ll make bigger boards and bigger nails, and soon, they will make a board with a nail so big, it will destroy them all!”

Sebrent.3625:

Life-tip:
If you get to a point where nothing will change your mind about something that isn’t a moral… you’ve dug yourself a bad hole and are honestly just being stubborn/ignorant.

Your post shows a perception where you think everything should have been already thought up by the developers and the players just led by the hand the whole way.

I’m sorry, but welcome to the real world where what you’re asking for is largely infeasible given the sheer complexity, resource constraints, etc.

Not to mention actual good game design.

Did you even watch the bloody video?

That is often touted as one of the best explanations of this topic … and your reaction is “nothing is ever going to change my mind on this.”

Which begs me to ask … are you some experienced game developer? Or an experienced developer at all? Or even some sort of engineer with experience with construction/development?

What exactly makes you feel so qualified in your belief in how things should be? I’d love to know.

---

As far as it being “bad design” that a given choice is worse than another choice in differing situations … seriously?!

Knowing the ins-and-outs of when the different choices are [sub-]optimal is part of becoming a good player in a game.

They are part of that “knowledge” and “skill” that separate an experienced player from a new player. They are what a new player generally aspires to acquire.

Have I stepped off into the twilight zone?

Are you wanting them to just say “here’s a board with a nail in it… it’s all you’ll ever need because it’s optimal in all situations … and your only option”.

Or are you wanting them to say “hey, you just stepped into PvE where people often stack and cleave down groups of mobs, I’m going to force you to make the right decision because I assume you’re not smart enough to do it on your own”.

Just good grief.

No Sebrent, I am not saying they should say “here’s a board with a nail in it”,

Far, far, from it.

As you would already know, if you had actually read (and understood) what I have said (both here and elsewhere); instead of trying to undermine everything you think other people are thinking, without even bothering to find out exactly what that is, or why they’re thinking it.

I find it pretty disturbing that you are a game developer, with your general attitude towards game players/customers, apparent complete lack of attention to detail and lack of understanding of balance.

I just hope I don’t ever, accidentally, end up playing any games you have designed, as I am pretty sure it would not be a good experience.

I can not understand why players complain about the current pet, I’m Berseker and beastmaster and usually play very PvP and many know me, I’m happy the way the pet react, and I am even more happy now that my pet will have a 30% agility with 450 ferocity together, it would be nice if it included healing and damage condition together but oh well ….. no pet is invincible as well as the players are not, so stop complaining about the ranger class, after the last update has improved greatly and I believe that specialization as the elite expertise along with new skills, healing, elite and etc. will be good

Sorry if something is misspelled in English is not my native language

They complain because they haven’t spent the time to understand how they work best. They neglect them and the expect them to perform to the fullest (because that how pets work in rl right).

Any pet owner knows, your pets trains you as much as you train them.

@Tigaseye:
If you can’t clearly explain something, that is on you.

Please explain what it is you think should happen?

• “here’s a board with a nail in it… it’s all you’ll ever need because it’s optimal in all situations … and your only option”
• “hey, you just stepped into PvE where people often stack and cleave down groups of mobs, I’m going to force you to make the right decision because I assume you’re not smart enough to do it on your own”
• here are options … they all do the same thing … enjoy

or what we currently have where people have options that are different and each one has pros and cons where the players are expected to be smart enough to make a good decision?

I’m amused that you have an issue with my opinion of players since I’m the one expecting them to be smart enough to make good decisions while you seem to think they need training wheels.

If I’m wrong, then clearly explain yourself.

All your last post was was an “I hate you, you don’t understand” … which I can get from my 5-year-old by enforcing any rule in my house.

So, again, same as I tell him … clearly explain and I will understand.

@Rap Tiger & @Serraphin Storm:
Exactly. I’m sure you’ve both noticed the same thing I have … against a good ranger, that pet is making a huge difference. In fact, it can be rage-inducing if they manage to catch you in a pet CC chain or a well-played pet burst … or, the latest I’ve seen, they get a ton of stacks of Might thanks to a nice little Drake trick.

I think we see most complaints (not all, because some are a bit warranted) because proper use of Ranger pets is much harder than proper use of other mechanics.