Guild Wars 2

Hey everyone!!!

I just want to update those who weren’t aware, but character progression poll has ended annnnd… Ranger is going to be the topic starting monday february 17th together with these:

The topics will be as follows:
PVE: How would you like to see us evolve Fractals?- Owner- Chris Whiteside

PvP: What would you like to see from a League system? – Owner- John Corpening

WvW: What aspects of Edge of The Mists do you think could carry over to the rest of WvW and how? – Owner- Devon Carver

Bonus: Global: Professions: How would you like to see us evolve Ranger balance?- Owner- Allie Murdock

So put up your issues and concerns regarding our profession, be as specific as possible. We all know pet AI is broken, elaborate on that if possible provide a solution on how you want to get these issues fix.

Traits, weapons, specialization etc… Lists them all during the weekend and let’s be as productive as possible and pray that we all agree on somethings.

Cheers!!!

AEFA.9035:

So put up your issues and concerns regarding our profession, be as specific as possible. We all know pet AI is broken, elaborate on that if possible provide a solution on how you want to get these issues fix.

Oh gosh this. Saying “pets need to be fixed” isn’t helpful. “Make the AI better” is not helpful either. Elaborate, and be specific. What decisions could a pet make that would improve its AI enough? Would that balance out with pvp or make pets too strong?

I’ll release my new Ranger Overhaul in this weekend, in hope they’ll consider a new mech that suits us better.

Here we go. I think this might be one of those “Release the Kraken” moments.

I thought Allie was only active in the PvP forum?
Do they even HAVE a PvE balancer yet??

Look I don’t wanna take this TOO oldschool, but flashback to 2006 … Both Prophecies & Factions combined together were struggling just to break 1 million sales. Why? B/c almost every skill in the game at that point was still balanced almost entirely around PvP. Then sales really started to take off the next year. Why? ENVIRONMENT. Balancing for PvP might get you hardcore cred, but it doesn’t move any series towards mainstream saturation. And once skill splits came in, the sales just kept going from 3 mil, to 5 mill, to kitten near 8 mil by the time Gw2 was being announced and everyone wanted those HOM points too. And …yeah… still today a lot of people blame NF for ‘ruining PvP’, but that’s only b/c they didn’t have the foresight to do the skill splits side by side with its release.

So what is going to be accomplished here exactly when the main lense it’s viewed through are primarily “PvP goggles”? Yeah I get it that some people claim they can put that sort of perspective aside, but I’ve been a PvP’er myself since 1994. You can’t fool me. Any game with both modes, and the side I always hung out in was PvP? HAH! There’s no relating to those PvE’ers problems… Yeah they can be heard, but in the back of any PvP’ers mind, the main concern is always, ALWAYS, “how’s this gonna affect the balance in PvP though?”.

Don’t get me wrong, I can’t wait to see where this goes…. But it looks like the topic is already trying to have its cake and eat it too. There’s no indicator at all that PvP will have to a take a back seat to this one. I mean for crying out loud, It’s spelled out right there in the title —-> “Global:”

Please remember to contribute to this on Monday.

Please don’t approach this thinking that you’re better than the rest of us because you pwn scrubs in low brackets of pvp/wvw running some trash build that “works for me but not you because obviously you don’t understand the ranger.” Therefore, when constructing feedback, see the profession for what it really: the worst in almost every area of the game, in comparison to other profs.

Please set realistic goals and focus on these topics, in descending order of priority:

1. pet aoe resists, AI and f2 cast time
2. utilities (traps, shouts, spirits specifically)
3. weapons (each must have a theme or a vision to be effective in at least one area)
4. traits (only after prof mechanic, utilities and weapons have been addressed)

I’ll type something up for the post when it comes out, don’t you worry!!

looking forward to everyone’ contributions, i hope they get something out of this and put their money where their mouth is.

mistsim.2748:

and put their money where their mouth is.

this will have been the first time they’ve been expected to do that since the game came out though. The only other thing similar to this still pending them making good on any promise at all, is Acquiring Precursors, right? ( I jut checked the wiki, I don’t see anything about alternative means for those yet either even though 5 months ago they were talking about that being a stretch goal for January … which also has come and gone I see).

They would be hard pressed to do a CDI and then take no action. I suspect rangers were already being focused on and this will just help.

They really have to improve the pet/ranger relationship and as AI won’t be changing find ways to do it that are implementable. Having that solution as a base you can then rework the traits/utilities weapon skills to the extent needed wrapped around that rebalancing.

My preferred solution at this time.

Aura of the Ranger (Inherent ability of rangers that interfaces with their pets creating a mini signet effect)

1) Ursine, Support tank role, added passive ability from the rangers aura when the ranger is within 2k of bear. (bear: XX% chance to heal on hit(self), XX% chance on being hit to absorb the next attack on the ranger) – So my ursine pets are now a minor rejuvenation effect and random limited protect me chance.
2) Moa’s – Support Buffing Pet – added passives from aura
a. Moa: Immune to AOE/Cleave attacks; Ranger: Boons on the pet are shared with the ranger.
3) Spiders – Offensive/CC Debuff pet
a. As both a ranged pet and a CC pet the spider already gets decent usage for good reason. As a pet needing less improvement offensively and with spiders and venom being synonymous.
i. (spider: Removes Poison/Weakness on self: Ranger: Removes Poison from ranger every 10 seconds.) –
4) Feline – Offensive pet bleeds and crits is what I think of so:
a. Feline: XX% chance on crit cause bleeding Ranger: Every 10 seconds remove(NOT TAKE) bleeding from ranger.
5) Devourer – Ranged tank/ damage I guess so
a. Devourer: XX% chance to gain retaliation on hit Ranger: Devourer devours one condition on ranger every 10 seconds
6) Drake – Survivable AOE damage and Blasts…
a. Drake: XX% chance on attack to trigger a flame blast Ranger: Drake consumes burning from the ranger every 10 seconds.
7) Porcine pets – Hmm tank utility offensive and defensive debuffing and a KD GAH!!!! Reality is the pet needs more KD or snare to be able to deliver any functional damage somewhat reliably so
a. Porcine: XX% Chance on hit create muddy terrain: Ranger: consumes immobilize on ranger every 10 seconds.
8) Canine – The crowd control pet but dogs are also guides so –
a. Canine: XX% chance when hit crit on next attack Ranger: Decrease duration of CC effects on ranger 15%
9) Birds – DPS swiftness blindness – don’t stay on target to well
a. Bird: % Chance on hit cause confusion (A way to deal damage when you aren’t in contact based on what target does) Ranger: Increase movement speed 15 (With a birds eye view you get the best route planning)

Such a structure would seem to improve pets while leaving them unchanged in the PvE environment except in perhaps some linked mob patrol scenarios.

In addition as the Boon Vigor does nothing for pets (as they have no active defense) but rangers spec multiple ways to create and in many instances share vigor with the pets it may also be desirable for the aura to have a benefit across pets (Pet: Vigor is converted to Protection) I would ideally add to that (& removes conditions from the pet). Our condition control is dumping our conditions on our pet via empathic bond. This forces us to use our only heal with condition removal to save the pet from that. Enabling active vigor creation to do that would enable the ranger taking the heal trait for vigor generation and using either of our other 2 heals to also manage condition removal on the pet.

Bombsaway.7198:

They would be hard pressed to do a CDI and then take no action.

…or simply take a few actions that have no effect.

The whole petsystem needs an overhaul if you ask me.
And I dont talk about the AI… that is …. well lets say substandard per se….

I trade my pet for 25%/30% damage boost to physical/condition damage

In gw1 i wasn’t forced to use pet, why should i in gw2?

Sneakier.9460:

I trade my pet for 25%/30% damage boost to physical/condition damage

In gw1 i wasn’t forced to use pet, why should i in gw2?

Because rangers evolved to fight in tandem with animals! Except we conveniently forgot how to use an Axe + Shield…. or throw spears while holding a shield… or using a staff and chanting like a cheerleader, or using a hammer to knock enemies on the floor where we can tear them apart easier….

You know… all the weapon combos we used in GW1 to fight with a pet… because kitten logic…

AEFA.9035:

Hey everyone!!!

I just want to update those who weren’t aware, but character progression poll has ended annnnd… Ranger is going to be the topic starting monday february 17th together with these:

The topics will be as follows:
PVE: How would you like to see us evolve Fractals?- Owner- Chris Whiteside

Make it so all fractual/dungeon parties should include a Ranger—if no ranger is present all the parties stats are reduced by 50% and/or fix the kick system so it can’t be exploited or spaces sold.

Durzlla.6295:

Sneakier.9460:

I trade my pet for 25%/30% damage boost to physical/condition damage

In gw1 i wasn’t forced to use pet, why should i in gw2?

Because rangers evolved to fight in tandem with animals! Except we conveniently forgot how to use an Axe + Shield…. or throw spears while holding a shield… or using a staff and chanting like a cheerleader, or using a hammer to knock enemies on the floor where we can tear them apart easier….

You know… all the weapon combos we used in GW1 to fight with a pet… because kitten logic…

And we forgot the best skills to use in combination with our pet…
Horray for the beastmaster!

Krugan.7901:

Durzlla.6295:

Sneakier.9460:

I trade my pet for 25%/30% damage boost to physical/condition damage

In gw1 i wasn’t forced to use pet, why should i in gw2?

Because rangers evolved to fight in tandem with animals! Except we conveniently forgot how to use an Axe + Shield…. or throw spears while holding a shield… or using a staff and chanting like a cheerleader, or using a hammer to knock enemies on the floor where we can tear them apart easier….

You know… all the weapon combos we used in GW1 to fight with a pet… because kitten logic…

And we forgot the best skills to use in combination with our pet…
Horray for the beastmaster!

I mean who really needs Enraged Lunge, or Strike as One (teleporting wolf ftw!), or all the shouts we had…

Please link in the CDI topic, can’t find it yet.

There will be a Delayto the CDI topics… They will be realeased on Wednesday 19:th instead. Check the Dev-tracker to find out.

Here’s some quick and easy fixes that we’ll never see because they can’t be monetized:

1H Sword
-Allow the use of dodge at any point during auto-attack.

Absolutely essential fix for dungeon and fractal survivability.

Longbow
-Max damage at any range on auto-attack.
-When >900 range, grant X stacks of Might for X seconds on auto-attack.
-1, 2 and 3 should pierce by default. Replace Piercing Arrows with something else.
-Combine Hunter’s Shot and Point Blank shot.
-Replace skill 4 with Explosive Trap (Range 1200, .5sec cast, CD 14 seconds, Launch a trap at targeted location that arms after one second. Trigger radius (160), damage radius (400). pulses twice over four seconds. When triggered, enemies take heavy damage and are crippled for two seconds each pulse. Acts as a blast finisher for both pulses.

With these changes PVE Rangers are no longer penalized for being within range of allies for aoe buffs, and PVP Rangers can still gain bonuses from sniping. New Hunter’s Shot becomes a solid ‘oh kitten’ button for both PVE/PVP, and explosive trap brings some additional AOE to the table, solidifying longbow as an excellent aoe kit in both PVE and PVP.

Short bow
-Change Poison volley to (Range 900, .25 sec cast, CD 8 seconds, deals heavy damage to one target and Poisons them for 4 seconds| If another target is within 600 of that target, projectile splits on impact and hits up to four additional targets, dealing moderate damage and Poisoning them for 4 seconds.
-Combine Quick Shot and Crippling shot. Remove the backwards hop.
-Replace skill 4 with Flaming Snake Trap (Range 600, .5sec cast, CD 20 seconds, Launch a trap at targeted location that arms after one second. Trigger radius (160), damage radius (200), pulses three times over 3 seconds. When triggered, enemies take light damage and are Burned and Poisoned for 2 seconds each pulse.

The goal here is to make SB viable in PVE while moderately increasing PVP power without changing the overall feel of it too much.

Now that I’ve wasted my time with that, feel free to disregard it with all of the rest of the Ranger suggestions.

I’ll bite and try and contribute some constructive suggestions once the discussion offically opens, but I find it hard to believe that anything will come of it. People have been offering suggestions on this forum since day 1 and have been flat out ignored by Anet.

After a year and a half of being ignored, I admit I’m hesitant to believe that they’re going to actually do anything to help us. We’ll see how it goes.

Agreed. I will try to participate, if I get a chance, but will maintain a healthy amount of cautious skepticism. I really feel like everyone’s going to set themselves up for more disappointment.

I mean, the entire spectrum of classes agreed that we are the worst and had to tell Anet as much just to get them to even acknowledge it. Expecting them to suddenly do a 180 and give us real buffs with no strings attached and fix Day1 issues that have been ignored till now just seems like a stretch when the sum of their actions int he past says they don’t even agree with the poll results.

Don’t forget the massive brain drain that is GW2 China. I’ll be cautiously participating too. I’d rather try and have ArenaNet fail again, than not try at all. I do love/hate this game and my Ranger afterall.

Year and a half of people explaining the problems with this class and theres a chance they may get around to fixing things.
Praise the lord!!
Got kicked from 2 low lvl fracs I joined this morning as soon as I joined because I play a ranger, first time ive ever had that happen and its a pretty kittenty feeling.
The frustration and anger this type of crap creates should of been a huge red flag to Anet that this class was in a bad place.
I know im off topic but fine tuning the warrior because its a devs favorite while this class has been ignored has finally made me mad enough to vent my frustrations.

secrest….out!

Perma pet stow with a 30% boost to ranger weapon and trap damage. An active condition cleanse that doesn’t blow my heal or require a pet. Fix sword AA so that it no longer roots. That is all.

More control over what the one-hand sword targets. I don’t want it to drop the lock on my target during the #1 or #2. I also want to be able to break combat easier with that sword.

Pets should dodge more or have more health. We should be able to keep them hidden as long as we want to avoid aggro. When I get hit while trying to sneak through, I don’t need my pet to automatically pop up. Pet names should be permanent, but we should still be allowed to change them whenever we want. Most of all, pets should be able to adjust the trajectory of their attacks mid-movement, or something, so that they can hit moving targets. I love pet mechanics: the GW2 ranger pet system just needs to improve.

We should have more condition removal options. And possibly a way to have more frequent but small heals.

It’s still not until Wednesday.

…still amazed here by how many people don’t understand that. It’s no wonder this class does so abysmally with so many clueless “patrons” in its ranks. Atleast Warriors can follow simple guidelines and copy information over despite being dumb as posts/rocks/ourPets.

My biggest issue is pet in WvW, they’re amazingly unreliable. One day they will save your life, the next day they will die and die and die… and die again. So to have them or to keep them is a question that’s difficult to answer, how about giving us pets that will actually do something other than consistently dying in WvW? Brainstorm it people, we can’t get rid of them, so we might as well get stuff that we can use.

Another thing is regarding the active signet traiting, it really forces your hand deep in that trait line, why not make it as a passive effect of the 25th trait line in the Grandmaster tier?

Being a ranger in WvW, you are easily stuck with the ‘big dps build’ or ‘roaming build’. Can the game overall get an update which will allow a secondary build and equipment pannel, with some clever mechanic behind it? As long as you are not in combat you can swap without double clicking every piece of equipment / trait out… something along these lines.

What about siege, thiefs are excellent users of the golems, they can teleport around with them, excellent stuff. Can rangers get a bonus for using arrow carts or ballistas or something that will make them more significant? All them berserker bear bow rangers need a place to sit people!

Rangers are masters of nature, if we choose to use signets, can these also buff our pets depending on their affinity? Examples: regen pets get a benefit from signet of the wild, condition pets get benefits from signet of renewal… so on and so forth? That would make them more WvW viable.

I can go on fellow rangers, but bring in the brainstorm.

Okay, rangers should be themed..like the rest of the cast of characters. But to what. They use a pet, sooooo..? I like that they use a pet and such, but traditionally rangers have been the hunter that aren’t the best fighter, but they do know how to find who (or what they want). Start with that. Add a few choice bits that would make them able to stealth a bit more. Not like a thief, but able to, let’s say…

1. While not in combat they can hide along with their pet, or stow their pet and wait. Neat..ranger can wait and watch and suddenly attack from hiding. But they can’t move and hide or attack and hide. It has to have reasonable limitations. They wait, prepare and become hidden. So maybe a 5 or 10 sec wait while not moving or in combat, then they become hidden for a period of time. Might need some other constraints as well.

And then a ranger is, as I mentioned, good at finding stuff. So maybe…

2. They have they ability to see those about them that are hiding for a short time. A few seconds with an appropriate cool down that would make those that use stealth more cautious around rangers, including other rangers. Takes one to know one, they say. A sorta rock-paper- scissors balance that this game needs.

Pets, of course, need a redesign or tweak. But what? Just making them more powerful seems the easy way to quiet the crowd, but it lacks finesse. Another writer mentioned some attacks that are combo attacks with the pet. Perhaps each pet could have a combo attack that is specific to that pet and geared towards the attack the pet uses in the wild, only amplified and trained by the ranger (As the story would go). The ranger would trigger it, and not be an AI thing that the pet does randomly.

3. Ranger-pet tandem attacks that are an amplification of the pet’s natural attack. These attacks would be more powerful and possibly greater ranger. Being a tandem attack, they have to physically involve the ranger. So it takes her out of her usual line of combat to perform this maneuver, whatever that might be. So, for example, we might have a ranger that uses her pet to knock down an opponent. The knock down stuns the opponent for a short time, removes a random boon AND places the ranger and the pet right there on the opponent.

Other wild thoughts in line with rangers. Maybe they can sense within a limited range their opponents. Thus they might see little red dots on their minimap…cool. Something a ranger can do that actually makes them useful to a party. That would go hand in hand with their ability to hide. They sense the enemy a ways off and that gives her time to hide until they pass…or whatever.

Whatever you guys do with a ranger, don’t just tweak it to make it a tank…make it special, useful…a cool char to play with and customize to be something the player likes. Anyone can tank…just keep mashing those dang buttons until your opponent is dead. Whooopeeeee…I kilt me a ranger! Yeah, you and every one else who’s played ten minutes.

Rangers should require something different.

ilr.9675:

It’s still not until Wednesday.

…still amazed here by how many people don’t understand that. It’s no wonder this class does so abysmally with so many clueless “patrons” in its ranks. Atleast Warriors can follow simple guidelines and copy information over despite being dumb as posts/rocks/ourPets.

The thread that jcbroe has in the profession balance subforum really should just renamed to the CDI thread. It already has everything in it. There’s no real need for another thread when everyone is going to just C&P from that thread into the CDI thread. Cut to the chase and just rename jcbroe’s thread to the CDI thread.

More suggestions I thought of: To fix targeting and reliability issues, have low cast time for all offensive pet skills—1 second max. Preferably less, especially for F2. When the player uses the F2 skill, any other skill or action that the pet is taking should be immediately canceled. F2 should instantly respond to player input, unless the pet is dazed/immobilized/otherwise incapacitated.

And the Quick Draw trait should be moved into the Marksmanship line, since that’s the trait line related to bows. Or it should be knocked down a tier. We shouldn’t be forced to invest so much into the critical hits line just to get decent use of our bows, especially since the critical hits mechanic has recently been nerfed by things like critical-immune bosses. And put Two-Handed Training into a different line than Nature Magic, it just doesn’t make much sense there.

Hi All,
I am out of the office tomorrow and very busy today. Therefore I am going to set the CDI topic kickoff to roughly 12pm PST on Monday. This is because I, like all of us, want to be able to give the new topics the attention they are due as the return on investment is huge.
I am going to keep this thread open for as long as it is useful and as a note I have started to remove posts that are of topic so in regard to this feedback early in the thread we are making headway in this area.

Chris

Postponed again. Ranger deny till the class is dead.

I can understand that they are being thrashed right now with bug fixes, etc. due to the Living Story update, but boy are these postponements going to go over poorly with the Ranger players.

Really? You gotta be kidding me…

Saw Sharp post about Anet testing Rangers in the internal server. Might be the reason why Ranger cdi is delayed till next week.

Someone also posted they want to know what the devs think about the current ranger and pet Allie answered to that, hence the testing. But I think the longer they postponed things, the worse it would get if the Devs dont give us decent answers on monday to the current meta

I’m really beginning to think this is all a farce. Either they don’t really want to fix the ranger or they know they painted themselves into a corner and don’t want to admit it for as long as they can.

I’m half expecting them to come out of their private testing thinking “After internal testing, we’ve come to the conclusion that the Ranger is actually in a pretty good place and have decided to go with the runner up in the poll”.

Or decide that we just need more spirits. Either way…

Substance E.4852:

I’m really beginning to think this is all a farce. Either they don’t really want to fix the ranger or they know they painted themselves into a corner and don’t want to admit it for as long as they can.

I’m half expecting them to come out of their private testing thinking “After internal testing, we’ve come to the conclusion that the Ranger is actually in a pretty good place and have decided to go with the runner up in the poll”.

Or decide that we just need more spirits. Either way…

Im actually starting to think that too. Hopefully they do give us something to hold on to on monday, after it has been delayed for a week by that time.

I think they have no clue how the Ranger works at all…. so they need a week to “look into it” – then they actually know what you guys are talking about.

The petsystem is a complete joke … and I dont think they really know that ^^

One thing seems clear; Until they just adjusting values, we’ll sck.
This is exactly why I’m suggesting a new base system to design Rangers on…

Its Monday here. No CDI yet?!

Anyway, some inspiration towards updating the Ranger/Entire game maybe check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJpXD1yGTvA

RoyalPredator.9163:

Its Monday here. No CDI yet?!

They are on the West Coast of the US, so they probably aren’t even open yet.

mtpelion.4562:

RoyalPredator.9163:

Its Monday here. No CDI yet?!

They are on the West Coast of the US, so they probably aren’t even open yet.

I guess the WvW team works different hours ? That CDI has been up for awhile now. Face it they broke the Rangers class so bad they are completely lost on how to fix it and listening to their players is not their strong point.

Nuzt.7894:

mtpelion.4562:

RoyalPredator.9163:

Its Monday here. No CDI yet?!

They are on the West Coast of the US, so they probably aren’t even open yet.

I guess the WvW team works different hours ? That CDI has been up for awhile now. Face it they broke the Rangers class so bad they are completely lost on how to fix it and listening to their players is not their strong point.

It’s been 4 hours since I posted that. They are definitely open now and yes, the other CDIs are up.

mtpelion.4562:

Nuzt.7894:

mtpelion.4562:

RoyalPredator.9163:

Its Monday here. No CDI yet?!

They are on the West Coast of the US, so they probably aren’t even open yet.

I guess the WvW team works different hours ? That CDI has been up for awhile now. Face it they broke the Rangers class so bad they are completely lost on how to fix it and listening to their players is not their strong point.

It’s been 4 hours since I posted that. They are definitely open now and yes, the other CDIs are up.

Didn’t you guys know? Ranger CDI has been cancelled, therefore the Devs are moving on to the next class which is Elementalists.

But Nuzt… We have great suggestions uploaded here…
Including mine, which seems to be a really enjoyable and balancable way.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see them fix Rangers but I have little faith that if and when they do open the CDI it will be little more then a place for Rangers to vent followed by being ignored.

The Ranger class has been broken from day 1, players have asked for fixes from day 1, the most noteable patch Rangers recieved was for underwater, which was a slap in the face.

They basically need to redo the entire class, start from scratch and make it more useful. This game is reliant on other classes, this is why they have things such as combo and fields, Rangers bring NOTHING to other classes that cannot be brought or done better by a different class. To much focus on pet dependancy (which is so broken its not even funny) and not enough focus on group utility/play.

Maybe someone forgot they were supposed to do a Ranger one too…

Or maybe they want us to forget they were supposed to do a Ranger one too.

I actually wouldn’t mind if they were taking extra time to make sure their introductory paragraph directs responses better. Last thing we need is a whole discussion to go down a road that isn’t technically feasible or possible from a project management standpoint.