Guild Wars 2

This is a guide to my sentinel frontline build. the vid contains clips of my research, and in it I am actually learning as i go. my skill is quite mediocre in these clips, and the first half of the footage is about 2 months old. i can do more things with the build now, but this is a start for purposes of the guide.

WHY SENTINEL FRONTLINE?

it is well established that the ranger is a good roamer, duelist and small gang fighter. however, i am not after these roles while creating my builds and playing my profs. in my personal view, WvW prowess and achievement are demonstrated by victory in few vs. many scenarios (which means high efficiency for your server), guild vs. zerg (when outnumbered), and gvg (against competent guilds). bearing this in mind, i wanted to create a ranger that could survive and contribute meaningfully in these environments.

Cleric/Apothecary – regen builds are not useful when you’re heavily outnumbered and taking a lot of burst damage. Any “regen bunker” build can only withstand the focus fire of 3-4 competent opponents.

Knights- low vitality does not work well with GvG/GvZ. some profs work well with 14-15k HP, like eles, thieves and cleric guards. but ranger does not.

PVT/Sentinel – balance between high base power, toughness and vitality. Sentinel gives most base vitality without giving up much power and vit, so it’s easier to incorporate knights and zerker pieces without giving up survivability.

RANGER IN “HIGH TIER” WvW PLAY

As many of you have learned, rangers are not well represented in top tier WvW guilds. in fact, many “hardcore” guilds dont even accept rangers, as the current gvg meta calls for guards, necros, warriors and staff eles. good thieves and engies most definitely have niche roles. but rangers dont. pick any category, and i guarantee most other profs will “do it better”. i am hoping to change this mindset with my balanced build.

When outnumbered, every team member must be able to output 1) hard crowd control, 2) team heals/boons, 3) strong ground targeted or pbaoe dps (preferably instant with short animation times), and/or 4) insane single target damage (thief niche).

1. hard CC includes stuns, kb/kd, fear. hard CC disables the target so they can get nuked. soft CC includes chill, cripple, blinds and daze. soft CC is generally less useful (unless we’re talking ToC #4’s aoe daze, or Plague’s aoe blinds). the ranger offers a ton of aoe cripple, some chill, and immobilizes. all soft CC’s.

if youre good at lining up your shots, we have quite a bit hard CC with piercing point blank shot, wolf fear, and OH axe #4. it is even possible to use these without a target , but i wouldnt recommend it. get good at clicking on the middle part of the zerg, and changing targets quickly.

immobilize, when timed well, can guarantee a few kills. cripple is a very underpowered and often useless condi.

2. rangers can share only the most underpowered boons with teammates: regen and swiftness. with only one reliable blast finisher and unreliable healing elite (ToL), ranger healing output is poor for the team. therefore, speccing for boon duration and healing power is not very useful to us. this is the reason i dropped my cleric build, which is still great for dueling.

this being said, Healing Spring is “the best water field of all times bro.” or is it? well, we have 15s water uptime, it cleanses condis, and can pulse vigor. but compared to Healing Rain, it’s pbaoe instead of ranged, and it’s smaller. that being said, if youre up there with your frontliners and have stability available, it’s a guaranteed burst heal for the whole group, and u can keep coming back to it for 15s.

3. ranger’s best aoe attacks (whirling defense and barrage) are kitten by long channel times. both benefit from quickness, but QZ is on a long CD and the build doesnt have room for it. therefore, we must rely on positioning, timing, and high base power. aoe condis (torch, traps) are inadequate because they cant be spammed. necros are able to spam bleeds and epi from a long range, while the ranger must apply aoe condis from 0-600 range on a much higher CD. in addition, ranger doesnt have any condi burst, meaning that when our condis are wiped, dps output becomes negligible.

4. glass rangers are not as viable as gc thieves or mesmers. we still dont have spammable target drops, making zerker rangers a gimmick, and limited to towers or other escape routes, YOLO moments, and lower tier play (i.e. your opponents are standing still eating your maul and swoop).

RANGER STRENGTHS:

- balance of soft and hard CC’s. spammable immobilize via Muddy Terrain and dog, and immobilize bombs with MT + Entangle; linear (piercing) aoe pulls and kb (axe 4, LB 4); semi-reliable 3s aoe fear (wolf; pop SoW for you and your pet before casting this)

- water field every 15s (assuming you fight near the HS)

- serious amount of on-demand stability (SoW, RaO)

- decent pbaoe damage with WD and drake, if barrage is pre-cast and enemies stay in the field, damage becomes significant. problem is, most experienced players know that if they dont move, they will die. which makes ranger’s dps output in GvG’s…questionable at best; however, Path of Scars is a seriously good spammable nuke with the right build. 2.5-4k both ways, and it pulls.

Ranger is therefore a “support” frontliner capable of dropping water field on heavies, and aoe immobilizing to ensure kills. getting lucky with wolf fear, axe 4, or lb 4 is gravy. we can also tank as hard as warriors and guards (requires expertise with signet timing, sword dodges, weapon swaps for rolling, and Hunter’s Shot).

FRONTLINE SUPPORT VARIANT (PVT/SENTINEL)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAT8XjEVJ2FWOWo2Bi1DC5nB1ewJzfeXB/nyKawaqA-jEyAo8ITQgpPBKnXEN2yYR0YV6ER16FMPeR0qlBgZMA-w

- 2300 toughness
- -65% condi duration
- 25k hitpoints
- up to 30s of stability
- 2300 base power (with bloodlust)

Tanky frontline build for immobilize and water spam. Decent damage, but nothing game-changing. I’ve been using this build for leading small groups when we’re outnumbered, but i prefer my cleric guard for that.

VULNERABILITY/IMMOBILIZE FRONTLINER (GvG)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBhYDbkoKxuvyxC1OQseQo9Po2DOZpz7K4/UWRDWTF-j0xAo8ARfCUOvIaslxioxq0Jiq1LYe8ioVLDAzYA-w

variation of above build. it can absolutely wreck any backline’s day. tanky as hell, incredible mobility, decent damage output, on-demand stability, and a load of aoe immobilize. includes spotter trait that gives a hefty dps boost to other frontliners. water field. vulnerability spam if using axe OH. can also be run with WH for blast finisher and fury instead of Whirling Defense. may be the better choice when u have to be more mobile.

Immobilize is a powerful condition. It punches through stability and prevents enemies from dodge rolling. Also forces condi cleanse CD’s. Ideally, should be timed with oncoming Earth Shakers and wells from your team.

DAMAGE VARIANT (KNIGHTS/SENTINEL)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAT8XjEVJ2FWOWs2Bi1DC5nB1UwJzzUwfGlyKawaqA-jkyAYLBZCCMZJQJwioxWcLiGrSfR16FM1JgHfR1ejgJFwDLAA-w

- 2550 power with bloodlust (2750 with food proc)
- 43% crit with food, 50% crit damage with food
- 19k HP
- 1950 toughness

This build is tough enough for you to be in the frontlines with the guards and the warriors. You also have the option of staying back with the casters. I generally like to open with Path of Scars, then cast Barrage + piercing Rapid Fire on the zerg, pop my signets and jump in with pet + Whirling Defense. In addition to this, you’re hitting aoe fear, and 2x aoe immobilize. I recommend using RaO instead of Entangle when running this build, for the additional (much needed) stability, and fury.

The weapons I’ve settled on are sword/axe and LB. GS has small arc and zero utility (maul needs to apply 10 stacks of vuln, not 3 lol…); SB is single target; MH axe has zero utility and poor aoe dps. the only viable alternative for this build is s/a + s/wh. wh is cool for its blast finisher and fury, but significantly reduces our sustained dps. nice for supporting your frontliners if you dont care for damage.

The utilities ive settled on are SoW, SoS, and MT. SoW is excellent due to 25% dps bonus, stability and reasonably low CD. SoS is essential for the on-demand invuln. both signets ensure your wolf is getting its fear off, and the drake is surviving to do its tailwhip and lightning breath. MT is a spammable aoe immobilize with 900 range. it’s probably our strongest team utility. Elite can be RaO (increases dps and reliability, useful for GvG’s), or Entangle, which requires perfect timing and positioning as outlined in the vid. Consider running QZ with the Knights/Sentinel build.

I have experimented with the Storm Spirit bomb, and have come to a few conclusions that led me to drop this utility. on paper, it does 3-5k aoe damage. well, it takes 2-3 seconds to actually summon and activate the kitten thing, and it hits only 3 targets! on heavy armor, damage ends up being 2.2k, and while ive seen it crit 5k on a clothie, it’s very rare due to its terrible crit chance. the main reason i dropped it is its cast time.

GS works for additional survivability with sword/axe, and immobilize bombs using swoop. damage and utility are very poor unfortunately.

Viable pets are:

- wolf: aoe fear
- dog: aoe immob
- black bear: long aoe weakness
- river drake: additional aoe dps

IMO, nothing else really makes a difference. I’d enjoy the Moas if the boons were instant, which they are far from.

GvG?

ive had reasonable success if a few informal GvG’s, and by that I mean i was able to help my team get kills with immobilizes and survive longer with HS placement. in other words, i was far from useless. should any guild give one of its spots to a well built ranger? well, yes. we’re sturdy, walking water field that can spam immobilize, do some decent damage, and apply some decent CC. in a group of 10 frontliners, it is more useful to have a PVT/Sentinel ranger instead of another guard/warrior. are we gonna see 5-6 frontline rangers in any given GvG? unlikely.

i have not had the chance to participate in many GvG’s due to our recent move and my long summer vacation, but i wil be following up with some footage at some point in time.

Thank you for reading, and I hope this build helps some of you who are lost/frustrated with the ranger prof in WvW.

Do you feel you benefit enough from signet of renewel to need 30pts in marks? While I love dolyak, protect me works similarly as well with more utility oriented pets (unlike cats/birds they tend to be alive when you need them).

I ask because if you can drop your reliance on SoR, you could drop 10 pts from marks, get 10 pts in survival and pick up empathic bond. Probably more useful overall imo.

I’m also curious what lead you to use the set of gear you chose? Have you considered celestial gear? I’m still trying to get enough crystals to craft the suit but the math looks promising with it.

Fantastic starting point for ranger in wvw. I have a few thoughts I’ll offer, hopefully readers find them valuable:

1) ranger’s have a lot of stability and swiftness as well as effective immediate condi removal, so, like OP said, they can more easily move to where they please. A ranger goes where he or she wants. This mitigates the drawback of healing spring being point blank cast.

2) Spirits unbound means you don’t have to suffer the painfully long spirit cast time in combat

3) traps should be mentioned, maybe I missed it, but traited frost and spike traps are quite powerful in a zerg and clearly, with the 1/2 second cast time, are a nice bonus if a player decides to trade a trap for muddy terrain, like I often do. Traps—even point blank traps— just fit my playstyle.

4) glad to see I’m not the only person that uses black bear

5) I think the following builds are relevant: rabid/traps/bleed/perplexity (xsorsus’s way), Valkyrie/remoresless (bab’s playstyle), carrion (durzlla’s preference). I believe if someone wanted to flesh these builds out here in this thread, it would be useful for readers.

Thanks for taking the time out to read this, I hope you find it valuable. And to OP: very nice summary. Happy hunting!

Atherakhia.4086:

Do you feel you benefit enough from signet of renewel to need 30pts in marks? While I love dolyak, protect me works similarly as well with more utility oriented pets (unlike cats/birds they tend to be alive when you need them).

I ask because if you can drop your reliance on SoR, you could drop 10 pts from marks, get 10 pts in survival and pick up empathic bond. Probably more useful overall imo.

I’m also curious what lead you to use the set of gear you chose? Have you considered celestial gear? I’m still trying to get enough crystals to craft the suit but the math looks promising with it.

I originally ran this with SoR. Awesome: pet clears condis from everyone every 40s or so. Problem: condis are reapplied instantly and youre stuck with a useless utility on cd.

SoR + empathic bond is amazing for small scale fights. But for wvw, melandru + lemongrass is way more bang for the buck and u free up a utility to improve survivability, cc or dps.

Gearing: you need vitality, period. For my support build I would have gone full sentinel, but the armor was too expensive. Sentinel trinkets are cheap and work very well with glassier armor and weapons (knights and zerker) if u wanna build for more dps.

Protect Me always gets me killed because pets melt inside red circles in seconds. SoS + SoW combo ensures you pet gets its f2 off at least once.

@Chopps

Thanks. My problem with traps is that u need 30 in skirmishing for them to be viable…and if I wasnt so dependent on signets, id love to run spike and frost.

However, I find on demand stability and invuln absolutely essential so im kinda confined to signets. MT is better than spike trap in every.

The other popular builds u mention are fantastic for smaller fights and I have ran them all in the past. This one is for zerg stomping =)

I tried this sort of thing about 2 months ago. Wasnt entirely the same, was largely PVT armour with a mixture of knights/berserker/PVT trinkets depending how it was going at the time.

I was mostly using GS because I actually find the damage pretty decent when you take into account mauls low CD and the larger cleave than the sword, but more importantly the evade on the #1 chain gives insane survivability when in the middle of a battle.

As chops already mentioned I actually did run traps for some time with this build to, I think I traited 0/30/30/10/0 if I am not mistaken. I used frost and fire traps for the fields and, since my condition damage wasnt great, frost seemed more appropriate than spike anyway. It was, I feel, pretty effective and I didnt suffer from lack of survivability, although I can see your desire for signets as well.. I never tried that.

Interested to see where this goes.. I want to try this again…

-writes it on my to-do list along with trying the woodsman build-

Sentinel trinkets allow you to be more liberal with your armor and weapons. For instance I used knights armor and zerker weapons for the damage version of the build, still had 19k hp and 1950 toughness.

Again I dont feel comfortable with traps for the stuff that we do…that extra stability and reliable invuln are much needed. Basically u have more than enough soft cc with my build. In zerg fights u cant rely too much on soft cc anyway. Might as well improve survivability and dps.

is there a way to get sentinel’s stats w/o spending a fortune on the tp?

I wont lie, the vit does make a difference. But you can easily go with pvt trinks and azurite jewels start there and depending on your comfort u can sub in some more knights/ruby stuff.

For the dps version, im happy with 20k hp 40% crit with food and 50% crit dmg. Thats with sent + azurite trinks.

Dont bother with sent armor. If you wanna play the tankier version id recommend getting sent weapons.

I agree with that PVT gear is by far the best choice for us ranger to go in WvW. But can’t go with the same trait. OP’s trait/utility works well (as shown in video) ONLY IF you work with a good team. This trait/skills has 0 condition removal except HS, that’s far from enough. I have tried tons of time even if I use my shout builds (with 3x instant condition removal) and sometime I still feel not enough.
w/o condition removal, you will be perma chilled/crippled/burned/poisoned and maybe 20+ bleed all the time, which make you can hardly last even 10 seconds in front line even you have 28k HP and 3k+ Toughness.
And for roaming, any condition build eat you alive easily.

let me clarify a few things about WvW and condis. i didnt discuss condis in-depth simply because theyre not really a problem with this build.

condi tanks work through condi duration reduction (lemongrass + melandru), a high vitality buffer (sentinel), and clearance (passive vs. active). therefore, i wouldnt easily dismiss sentinel in favour of PVT (unless it’s all you can afford).

condi clearance is just gravy. focusing on active condi clearance is generally a mistake, unless youre a guardian with traited VoR, renewed focus, and 3 shouts. stacking passive condi clearance (i.e. X removes condi every 10 seconds) is the best way to go, as long as u have Lemongrass and Melandru runes

condis are only a problem in tiny engagements like 2v2, 3v3, and duels. condi/regen builds are in fact best dueling builds. very few people use condis effectively in larger engagements, and if they do, you just push through it. this is possible due to aoe cap and stacking condi duration reduction. i actually main a rabid necro with almost 2k condi damage. he’s beastly in small engagements, and quite mediocre in GvG’s and zerg fights.

if youre really worried about condis, pick up empathic bond instead of bark skin. i started off with SoR and Empathic Bond a few months ago, and found them completely unnecessary for most frontline work. with melandru + lemongrass, you’re basically tanking it. if you added SoR, along with HS, you’d literally be immune to condis. the build does not have to be changed drastically.

Maybe you never feel the pain of condition since you go with your buddies in most of time. In your video, I saw you have barely condition stack on you for even 2-3 sec coz your BUDDIES clean them for you.
In fact, if I can have good buddies all the time, I can even run with Zerk gears. But as a freelance solder (I think most of us are on our own), I have to rely on myself only.
SOR is good, E-bond is not enough. I have the opposite feeling about your “very few people use condis effectively in larger engagements”, maybe we are in different server, I have suffered a lot from condition during large fights even if I use lemon grass, the conditions just comes from everywhere NON-STOPLY .

mistsim.2748:

hmm i roamed a lot with my tanky build and never had any issue with condis. im not saying it’s the best roaming build, but it can definitely cover that role as long as u have a few buddies with you to do the dps. if youre worried about condis, pick up empathic bond (instead of bark skin) + SoR. with melandru + lemongrass, you’re basically immune.

thing is, condis are only a problem is small gang engagements. very few people use condis effectively in larger engagements, and if they do, you just push through it.

If resurrection is useful (getting up downies), which I reckon it might be in gvg (that’s up for you to decide), the ranger can be surprisely powerful at that role. There’s traits few rangers use like trapper’s defense, healer’s celerity, and the combination of stability training+Search and Rescue make ranger awesome at this. Quickening zephyr and zephyr’s speed just make this even better, not to mention the spirit elite. With runes of mercy, we’re talking an INCREDIBLY annoying ressurect ranger that can repeatedly save, say, a high burst warrior in his squad.

So perhaps clerics/apothecary isn’t out of the question for zerging and ranger. (credit Durzlla for this idea)

CRrabbit.1284:

In your video, I saw you have barely condition stack on you for even 2-3 sec coz your BUDDIES clean them for you.

from 2:50-10:00 im basically by myself. first tower sequence my buddies dont even make it up the tower; the fight at umber i did have a shout warrior with me most of the time. but if you go to 5:05, 6:48, you’ll notice how little all those condis are doing to me. i just let them expire. mind you, if im focus fired by some rabid necro, sure id fall faster. but so would anyone else. with melandru + lemongrass (HS and EB if needed), ive never felt condis to be a problem to the point when i needed to slot SoR. from Jq to SBI to Kain to SoS. while i havent roamed in small groups much, ive exclusively frontlined with my tank build for about 3 months, so i speak from that experience.

Melandru, Lemongrass and high vit are basically the bread and butter of tier 1 WvW. for a reason. they make u almost forget condis exist.

It’s not the condition damage that hurts, it’s the perma chilled/cripple/poison and sometime almost perma-immobilized which hurts. I have both protect-me and SoS on my tool bar for near 12 seconds invincibility, but w/o enough condition removal (it’s never enough) , I know I am gonna die after that 10 seconds. But I do like your axe-off hand option, which allow me to do some damage before I am over.
In your movie I would say your play style is semi front-line solder in most of time. I never seen your opponent run any well organized heavy warrior/guardian hammer train which is so popular in T1/T2. I doubt your build can survive that.

mistsim.2748:

let me clarify a few things about WvW and condis. i didnt discuss condis in-depth simply because theyre not really a problem with this build.

condi tanks work through condi duration reduction (lemongrass + melandru), a high vitality buffer (sentinel), and clearance (passive vs. active). therefore, i wouldnt easily dismiss sentinel in favour of PVT (unless it’s all you can afford).

condi clearance is just gravy. focusing on active condi clearance is generally a mistake, unless youre a guardian with traited VoR, renewed focus, and 3 shouts. stacking passive condi clearance (i.e. X removes condi every 10 seconds) is the best way to go, as long as u have Lemongrass and Melandru runes

condis are only a problem in tiny engagements like 2v2, 3v3, and duels. condi/regen builds are in fact best dueling builds. very few people use condis effectively in larger engagements, and if they do, you just push through it. this is possible due to aoe cap and stacking condi duration reduction. i actually main a rabid necro with almost 2k condi damage. he’s beastly in small engagements, and quite mediocre in GvG’s and zerg fights.

if youre really worried about condis, pick up empathic bond instead of bark skin. i started off with SoR and Empathic Bond a few months ago, and found them completely unnecessary for most frontline work. with melandru + lemongrass, you’re basically tanking it. if you added SoR, along with HS, you’d literally be immune to condis. the build does not have to be changed drastically.

Wow I really like this man, thanks for this. Been playing ranger since beta and even though I get my kitten handed to me in wvw I still charge forward and try different combinations.

Unfortunately I spent a ton of laurels and gold/badges on the beserkers set. Going to try and work this in cost effectively.

+1 thread

I run this similar build in Tier 1 vs 60+ JQ and BG mega-blobs all the time and it is so much fun.

I explained this build from my anook blog a month ago: http://www.anook.com/topic/1763

and I have been running the Signet of the Beastmaster build before the signet revamp.

In the current meta where stacking Guardians, Necros, and Elementalist is the norm, Ranger have great potential with proper trait and pet revamps.

Mistsim, this is a great thread, you explain the build a lot better that I can.

Glad youre enoying this, it’s been a long project. Another combo u might wanna consider is gs/s/a for greater presence in the frontline. I just didnt get around to testing it. And lb has much better utility.

Well, I was waiting for this ever since you told me I was using the wrong gear and that’s why the ranger couldn’t do much as a “frontliner”

Turns out I was using….. The EXACT same gear.

Basically, you are a brick even mixing in some zerker gear the cleave is pathetic. Not to be rude but ranger as a frontliner is a brick. You don’t do much you are a brick.

Not to mention you have probably just killed yourself if you use barrage on a co-ordinated zerg with retaliation up.

I have been trying multiple multiple builds for weeks trying to run this, but its simple.

I bring nothing my warrior, necromancer, ele, guardian, etc, etc that they can’t do aswell if not better.

Maybe
-Muddy Terrain
-A longer but smaller water field as opposed to say healing rain.

HOWEVER, this would be a solid build, and you could at least bring a solid cleave if anet gave us the pets damage -_- Why should our f2 be a handicap?

In terms of surviving its a great build I have been using it for weeks, in terms of damage and what the Ranger itself can bring to the zerg/ guild group abysmal.

Yeah I experimented with knights/zerker for a few weeks and id basically drop myself to 50% hp after a single barrage. Nice.

Knights/sent is where it’s at. Especially with fire sigils. Path of scars is a beastly zerg busting ability. Wd, barrage, piercing rf are gravy on top. I see it as a hybrid frontline/caster. Youre by far outdpsing the frontliners. But then the question becomes why not just bring a power wellmancer. Well unlike the necro, ranger gives water and pretty reliable cc. It’s a hybrid prof and it really needs to be seen that way.

Pvt/sent seems to fit well with gs and immobilize bombing. But your contribution becomes kinda meh due to low dps and minimal hard cc. If you could spam more aoe vuln with the gs it would give the ranger a LEGIT frontline role.

The other reason signets are so good is they guarantee your f2’s going off before the pet melts or gets interrupted. So thats additional cc ure putting out

I do enjoy the offhand axe. The offhand axe number 4 is a nice troll counterpoint to the longbows number 4. Ping Pong!

I can’t seem to hit people on keep walls with it though, which makes me kinda sad

mistsim.2748:

It’s a hybrid prof and it really needs to be seen that way.

This is how I always seen this profession and the reason I love it.

mistsim.2748:

Pvt/sent seems to fit well with gs and immobilize bombing. But your contribution becomes kinda meh due to low dps and minimal hard cc. If you could spam more aoe vuln with the gs it would give the ranger a LEGIT frontline role.

In your video its just you doing the aoe vuln now just imagine 3 or 4 Rangers timing WD at the same time to a CCed zerg ball.

AydenStar.4216:

mistsim.2748:

It’s a hybrid prof and it really needs to be seen that way.

This is how I always seen this profession and the reason I love it.

mistsim.2748:

Pvt/sent seems to fit well with gs and immobilize bombing. But your contribution becomes kinda meh due to low dps and minimal hard cc. If you could spam more aoe vuln with the gs it would give the ranger a LEGIT frontline role.

In your video its just you doing the aoe vuln now just imagine 3 or 4 Rangers timing WD at the same time to a CCed zerg ball.

added the frontliner immobilize bomber build above have a look.

mistsim.2748:

added the frontliner immobilize bomber build above have a look.

I see a lot of hidden potential in that build. I tried coming up with a BM immobilize trap version but I haven’t fully tested it yet.

Thank you for reminding a long time ranger that spending time building a strong solo roaming ranger can easily shift to a very solid front line wvw ‘sentinel’. I will set up a variant build based on your approach just for WvW. After all you have to be able to do a bit of everything on the go as a ranger.

Ya thanks a lot for Mistsim’s Immobilize/Fear bomb idea. I changed my pet to dog/wolf last night with my shout build and found it works perfectly.
Guard—range 1200, pet stealth+protection, cast F2 it’s still in stealth, plus trait NM 15 you get fortifying bond, pet will share your ROA (stability), you can use long bow 3 pre-stealth yourself if you want to be more surprising. Will try reef drake confusion bomb tonight.
I found my ranger pretty nasty now , haha.

AydenStar.4216:

mistsim.2748:

added the frontliner immobilize bomber build above have a look.

I see a lot of hidden potential in that build. I tried coming up with a BM immobilize trap version but I haven’t fully tested it yet.

CRrabbit.1284:

Ya thanks a lot for Mistsim’s Immobilize/Fear bomb idea. I changed my pet to dog/wolf last night with my shout build and found it works perfectly.
Guard—range 1200, pet stealth+protection, cast F2 it’s still in stealth, plus trait NM 15 you get fortifying bond, pet will share your ROA (stability), you can use long bow 3 pre-stealth yourself if you want to be more surprising. Will try reef drake confusion bomb tonight.
I found my ranger pretty nasty now , haha.

AydenStar.4216:

mistsim.2748:

added the frontliner immobilize bomber build above have a look.

I see a lot of hidden potential in that build. I tried coming up with a BM immobilize trap version but I haven’t fully tested it yet.

I personally prefer the BM immobilize fire + fear bomb, as my BM is strong on condition damage. Not only that but fire field opens the chance to buff all front liners with might boons. Besides I find that fire works really well if its follow through with another immobilize bomb as fire fields come easy for a ranger, so you can repeat on the go.

Which pet can give fire field ?

awge.3852:

CRrabbit.1284:

Ya thanks a lot for Mistsim’s Immobilize/Fear bomb idea. I changed my pet to dog/wolf last night with my shout build and found it works perfectly.
Guard—range 1200, pet stealth+protection, cast F2 it’s still in stealth, plus trait NM 15 you get fortifying bond, pet will share your ROA (stability), you can use long bow 3 pre-stealth yourself if you want to be more surprising. Will try reef drake confusion bomb tonight.
I found my ranger pretty nasty now , haha.

AydenStar.4216:

mistsim.2748:

added the frontliner immobilize bomber build above have a look.

I see a lot of hidden potential in that build. I tried coming up with a BM immobilize trap version but I haven’t fully tested it yet.

I personally prefer the BM immobilize fire + fear bomb, as my BM is strong on condition damage. Not only that but fire field opens the chance to buff all front liners with might boons. Besides I find that fire works really well if its follow through with another immobilize bomb as fire fields come easy for a ranger, so you can repeat on the go.

CRrabbit.1284:

Which pet can give fire field ?

awge.3852:

CRrabbit.1284:

Ya thanks a lot for Mistsim’s Immobilize/Fear bomb idea. I changed my pet to dog/wolf last night with my shout build and found it works perfectly.
Guard—range 1200, pet stealth+protection, cast F2 it’s still in stealth, plus trait NM 15 you get fortifying bond, pet will share your ROA (stability), you can use long bow 3 pre-stealth yourself if you want to be more surprising. Will try reef drake confusion bomb tonight.
I found my ranger pretty nasty now , haha.

AydenStar.4216:

mistsim.2748:

added the frontliner immobilize bomber build above have a look.

I see a lot of hidden potential in that build. I tried coming up with a BM immobilize trap version but I haven’t fully tested it yet.

I personally prefer the BM immobilize fire + fear bomb, as my BM is strong on condition damage. Not only that but fire field opens the chance to buff all front liners with might boons. Besides I find that fire works really well if its follow through with another immobilize bomb as fire fields come easy for a ranger, so you can repeat on the go.

None can actually provide with a fire field, although if they would that sure would be sweet! The ranger provides fire fields via the use of fire trap or bonfire, which we are so lucky to be able to use on a regular basis, but they need to be intelligently used.

A pet that uses a leap or blast finisher can use the fire field to its advantage as well as anyone else can. But… hmm why do you ask? The above quoted comments don’t talk about a ranger pet providing fire fields, only about pets providing mass fear/protection/etc.

Using fields on such a micro level is totally unfeasible for the scenarios I designed this ranger for. Id say use bonfire for might but torch is not a viable weapon for this kind of combat. Stick to just the water field and aoe immobilizes and u will make a difference. This isn’t some small time roaming build. I min/maxed everything for zerg combat.

I believe traps are essential and I also believe muddy terrain takes too long to cast—particularly without stability or quickness—and I believe entangle is too easily cleared and binds too easily destroyed in a zerg.

traps are not essential, theyre terrible. the only decent one is spike trap for its utility, and it only gives a 1s immobilize. frost trap chills, which is just a soft CC. it does nothing to stop a zerg. entangle and muddy terrain are basically better versions of this. if you spec for trap bombing, u have no survivability and u cant zerg dive. u have to throw them from 600 range which is virtually melee range and u have to waste 30 points speccing into them. MT is spammable every 20s, and u can do it from 900 range. and my build has on-demand stability.

as i said, my build isnt small times. i min/maxed it for zerg play. there are tons of small group roaming builds out there. i also explained in the guide how exactly to utilize Entangle. the only problem right now is muddy terrain isnt affecting 5 targets as it’s supposed to, and it’s driving me nuts.

mistsim.2748:

traps are not essential, theyre terrible. the only decent one is spike trap for its utility, and it only gives a 1s immobilize. frost trap chills, which is just a soft CC. it does nothing to stop a zerg. entangle and muddy terrain are basically better versions of this. if you spec for trap bombing, u have no survivability and u cant zerg dive. u have to throw them from 600 range which is virtually melee range and u have to waste 30 points speccing into them. MT is spammable every 20s, and u can do it from 900 range. and my build has on-demand stability.

as i said, my build isnt small times. i min/maxed it for zerg play. there are tons of small group roaming builds out there. i also explained in the guide how exactly to utilize Entangle. the only problem right now is muddy terrain isnt affecting 5 targets as it’s supposed to, and it’s driving me nuts.

I understand the whole Muddy Terrain issue is forcing me not to play the signet build because 3 max targets on Muddy Terrain is appalling. Quite honestly, I am thinking of switching muddy terrain for Frost trap or Spike trap until Anet fixes or confirms that muddy terrain only affects 3 players.

Yet, I think traps are very good in zerg warfare if you understand enemy zerg movements. Even with the 600 throwing range, once the Ranger avoids the head of a zerg ball, the back-line tends to be exposed and that is the moment CC traps can be most effective. One of the best ways to learn how to fight a zerg is not to rely one stability from your skills but to leech off Guardians SyG or learn how to dodge the head of the zerg. In my trap builds, I tend to stay with a guardian to get SyG to move through the enemy zergs or use RaO if I feel that I am not getting SyG enough.

-65% condi duration + unlimited condi clears in an organized zerg ball > traps (or anything the ranger has to offer)

the reason i go with only muddy terrain and entangle is that they have the longest lasting immobilizes, and this way you can spec into survivability instead of traps. dog f2 + MT + entangle follow up by wolf f2 = 3 long immobilizes and aoe fear. you dont need anything more.

and u cant tell me youre diving all the way to the backline with no survivability utilities equipped.

and yes, the MT bug right now is killing my build.

mistsim.2748:

-65% condi duration + unlimited condi clears in an organized zerg ball > traps (or anything the ranger has to offer)

the reason i go with only muddy terrain and entangle is that they have the longest lasting immobilizes, and this way you can spec into survivability instead of traps. dog f2 + MT + entangle follow up by wolf f2 = 3 long immobilizes and aoe fear. you dont need anything more.

and u cant tell me youre diving all the way to the backline with no survivability utilities equipped.

and yes, the MT bug right now is killing my build.

The best way to learn how to zerg is not to rely one Superior Runes of Melandru, Lemongrass poultry soup and stability. Learning how to maneuver around and through the enemy zergs is without aid from the above is very important. Zergs/players rely heavily on these passive abilities through food buffs, runes and traits to pain-train around.

One of the only ways to fight these pain-trains in the current meta is a combination of both hard and soft CC, condition spamming and timed damage spikes once the enemy zerg are in a bad position or rallied in a bad position. If I ran a trap spec, I tend to use RoA over entangle. Yet if I am running with a shout guardians (which is never an issue) I just rely on SyG for stability and use entangle to stop retreats or timed with 2 other Rangers in the back lines that fall behind the zerg. (it does happen)

Even with -65 condi duration doesn’t mean they back-line or going to move freely through a spam of coordinated soft CC into hard CC. With this issue of Muddy Terrain, I just feel traps have more to offer vs the zergs ATM until they fix it.

Traps are definately not terrible. Read my “why ranger in wvw” thread for a description of why I believe traps are essential.

I use traps with pvt gear in my hydralisk build too. Even without condition damage I like traps.

By the way, sentinels is great gear but it’s prohibitively expensive.

ayden, there’s a reason condi necros are no longer used in GvG’s. theyre the best condi spammers in the game and there’s no room for them. condi clearance is unlimited in organized groups. also, one cant maneuver around a zerg when one needs to KILL the zerg. i guess you’ve never seen two organized groups clash. u can dance around it or run around, but youre only compromising your team this way.

chopps, there’s excellent discussion in your thread that basically outlines the many weaknesses of the ranger profession, and why rangers are generally not accepted in the high tier wvw meta. at this point, i would like you to provide the community with some evidence that demonstrates efficacy of traps against organized zergs. im afraid rangers have been through so much that the more experienced players have become immune (sometimes even hostile) to unsubstantiated claims regarding goofball builds (like running all traps with no defensive utilities or stun breakers). survivable trap build is basically an oxymoron.

Last time someone told me to provide evidence it was about the usefulness of spirits in dungeons and it took another two months before people realized that max gen purpose groups (ie not lupicus) actually benefit from a spirit ranger with spotter.

The proof is in the play. Go try it yourself with your zerg. I refuse to waste valuable time filming for some video you’ll find a reason to pick apart too.

By the way, I don’t want to pick on you too mich because I like some ideas behind this build. It inspired me to finally reveal the Hydralisk variants I’ve been testing. I tried to get the community involved in theorycrafting it further but a lot don’t buy the premise that ranger can Zerg efficiently. I buy it though because I do it nightly.

Full trap builds work in zerg vs zerg when you have support around you. I would never go full traps unless I had guardians next to me. Yet if you want to test yourself, run a full trap build with not stun breaks. (Its not that easy) and you have to rely on your GS and passive traits in order to survive.

My main trap build is like this: (do tweak it a lot gear wise)

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-F;4wEky-d2cEF-0;9;49TJ9-3;037A59-5;3_-F8W;16TsW6TsWTNlW0-NW90;1XVaWfXk2r3x_9g0Q-6k0Agk1Ag;9;9;9;9;9;54-6p

No full traps. I have little issue with this build other than relying on guardians for SyG

GvG IMHO are a sideshow and a joke. Hammer trains/Staff Elementalists have dominated the WvW meta for a year now and frankly I am tired of it. I don’t have a soft spot for GvG because it optimizes the flawed support mechanics ANet gave exclusively to Guardians, Warriors and Elementalists.

With that said, this game desperately needs variety in WvW in order to survive. Running a Hammer/Shout Guardian everyday brings me one step closer to reinstalling WoW or Rift.

Chopps.5047:

By the way, I don’t want to pick on you too mich because I like some ideas behind this build. It inspired me to finally reveal the Hydralisk variants I’ve been testing. I tried to get the community involved in theorycrafting it further but a lot don’t buy the premise that ranger can Zerg efficiently. I buy it though because I do it nightly.

Chopps, im sure youre an excellent PVE player. no one is contesting you there. the reason im asking you to show some evidence is that you only talk without actually addressing the critiques adequately. and as someone who has been playing since beta, almost entirely in WvW, some of the things you say are fairly out of touch to me, but not because theyre novel or next level thinking.

and i dont feel like youre picking on me at all. even if you wanted to, i dont think youre in a position to do so. ive been putting out WvW ranger guides for while now, and i already addressed the trap bomber months ago. i’ll present to you the issues with the build in your thread.

from here on, id really like to discuss my build if anyone has any questions or comments. i actually invite people to pick it apart and critique it, which hasnt really been done thus far, in case i missed anything. saying “go all traps” isnt really a critique, it’s a call for an entirely different build.

AydenStar.4216:

GvG IMHO are a sideshow and a joke. Hammer trains/Staff Elementalists have dominated the WvW meta for a year now and frankly I am tired of it. I don’t have a soft spot for GvG because it optimizes the flawed support mechanics ANet gave exclusively to Guardians, Warriors and Elementalists.

well, the GvG scene has exploded and is way more popular than spvp. it has been demonstrated repeatedly that guilds embracing the GvG meta are the best at wiping much larger zergs. and that’s no joke or sideshow. so i approach the ranger from this side of things.

GvG is just a side show. It has only gain in popularity do to the lack of effort Anet has put into pvp in this game. Look at Bollaball. People would rather play a soccer match in WvW than play WvW itself. GvG started because smaller guilds wanted to shoot the fair one with larger guilds.

I helped wipe groups twice our sized with a Ranger trap builds before most NA guilds started to embrace the GvG meta.

WARD uses a similar ranger in their GvG so some people are doing it. I am only world rank 76 with 11,000 kills so I’m probably not the most experienced player, heck, there’s people rank 200+ in strikeforce. Even so, I believe rangers are neglected in the gvg meta for two reasons:

1) traps are not utilized
2) ressurection is not traited for, something that ranger seems to be clearly one of the best at

I think gvg is a corruption of gw2 gameplay though because there are no points to capture. Every class was designed with capturing/defending points in mind. So, to me, even though I’ve commented on it, gvg is irrelevant when you’re talking about bulldogging Lord’s room, utilizing terrain to pre-emptively strike etc.

Anyways, thanks for the pve compliment. rock on

*ps – we give the gvg guilds a run for their money in SF just ask them. Remember, gvg is an offshoot of some of the original hammer train zergs developed by strikeforce and other guilds that have been a mainstay in wvw since launch.

Whenever we beat one (like TW last night) we joke about how “wait wait that wasnt fair according to gvg rules they get 15s to charge up might”. Lol we do! We also LOVE it when we see orange swords south because that means POWER PLAY. Capture time they’re g ging hurry! Lol

Btw I love TW and don’t mean to offend, they’ve wiped us plenty of times. It goes both ways. T1 is very balanced right now and I’m just loving it.

With all the changes in recent months, do you still recommend your damage/variant or have you come up with better builds as of recent? Your video is one of my favorites on youtube, but I can’t seem to get the same results as you. I die pretty quick from conditions only because I do mainly havoc stuff so a lot of group fights and I almost never escape if their is a zerg around the corner cause I get immob and dead. If you don’t have the same issues, then maybe I just need to learn to play better or position myself better in a fight, but tips would be helpful if you have any. No… I’m not going to drop my ranger for another class.

Finally got some miles with this build. It’s really so dope.

When timed properly path of scars is devastating, and the immobilizes really aid your guilds bombs.

Sentinel’s was expensive but I was still able to get similar stats to your original build using soldier’s armor with superior runes of speed. Tons of vitality and the move speed bonus is nice in case you have to catch up with the group. The difference in dmg between this rune set and runes of the scholar is quite noticeable though.

Anyways, Cheers.

Any changes to the build since the 12/10 patch?

glad youre enjoying it jewish. path of scars is probably one of the best nukes in the game. if youre in a really good group, you can try running valk/zerker with 2600 power (fully buffed) and 100% crit damage, watch LB and OH axe melt people. Lb is very strong with bursty builds now, but lacks survivability for small group play.

@sling – nope no changes. barkskin buff makes this build hella tough. when they make wxp account bound, this build should push 30k HP with guard stacks…so at 25% or 7.5k HP and protection you’re basically unkillable in zergy situations.

i still think no other utilities give you more bang for your buck than MT and two signets. axe OH remains your true aoe weapon…just wish GS was more useful against groups

mistsim.2748:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snZRnEzpLPg

This is a guide to my sentinel frontline build. the vid contains clips of my research, and in it I am actually learning as i go. my skill is quite mediocre in these clips, and the first half of the footage is about 2 months old. i can do more things with the build now, but this is a start for purposes of the guide.

WHY SENTINEL FRONTLINE?

it is well established that the ranger is a good roamer, duelist and small gang fighter. however, i am not after these roles while creating my builds and playing my profs. in my personal view, WvW prowess and achievement are demonstrated by victory in few vs. many scenarios (which means high efficiency for your server), guild vs. zerg (when outnumbered), and gvg (against competent guilds). bearing this in mind, i wanted to create a ranger that could survive and contribute meaningfully in these environments.

Cleric/Apothecary – regen builds are not useful when you’re heavily outnumbered and taking a lot of burst damage. Any “regen bunker” build can only withstand the focus fire of 3-4 competent opponents.

Knights- low vitality does not work well with GvG/GvZ. some profs work well with 14-15k HP, like eles, thieves and cleric guards. but ranger does not.

PVT/Sentinel – balance between high base power, toughness and vitality. Sentinel gives most base vitality without giving up much power and vit, so it’s easier to incorporate knights and zerker pieces without giving up survivability.

Why is the embedded video not working? It’s now marked as “Private”.

Hi. I’m new to rangers in a wvw scene and I was just wondering if this build / these builds are still viable. Thanks!