Guild Wars 2

-A Collaborative Thread By The Ranger Community-

Ever since the condition damage update I feel like shortbow is probably the the most underwhelming weapon that the ranger has which is sad because it is our only real “ranged” condition damage option. A base range increase to 1,200 would be very nice. A base damage increase of all weapon skills by 10% would really help this weapon fit into a “hybrid” kind of niche.

Crossfire: Inflicts one stack of bleed for 3 seconds when strikeing a foe from behind or the side . . . Considering bleed damage is pathetic this skill is really bad. I would Increase the bleed to 3 stacks for 2 seconds when striking a foe from behind or the side or I would make it so the bleed is applied no matter where the arrow hits.

Cross fire: Maby make it into a chain attack that bleeds every hit regardless of direction but on the 4th hit will cause a few stacks of torment for a few seconds.

Poison Volley: Fire a spread of 5 poison arrows. This is a really great skill that kind of defeats the point of shortbow as you have to be in close combat to use it. I would suggest making this skill a single 900 ranger projectile that that inflicts 5 stacks of poison on hit. This change would make the short bow feel alot more like the ranged weapon it is. (as has been suggested before.)

Poison Volley: A single arrow that inflicts 5 stacks of poison and inflicts a poison field if it strikes from behind or the side."

Poison Volley: Rapidly fire 5 arrows that splinter on impact dealing damage and applying 5s poison around the target, also applies 3s torment if flanking.

Poison Volley: Maby make it so its a single arrow that aoe (250) 5 stacks of poison on hit.

Quick Shot: Fire a quick shot in an evasive retreat. Gain swiftness if shot hit. This is one of the only skills on the shortbow I think is fine. Maby a “pet cripples for 3 seconds on its next attack” kind of thing would be nice but i really dont think its nessary. This skill should be a projectile finisher.

Quick shot: Maby add a “you and your pet gain superspeed for 2 seconds on hit. Projectile Finisher.”

Crippling Shot: Fire an arrow that cripples and adds 1 stack of bleeding to your foe. This is deffintaly one of the most disipointing skills on the shortbow. I would suggest removeing the bleed on hit but allowing to skill to add an additional 3-4 bleeds stacks if the target is moving when struck as a way to help out shortbow bleed stacking.

Crippleing Shot: Still cripples but remove the single bleed on hit and applie 4 stacks of torment for 3 seconds if target is moving while hit.

Crippleing Shot: Increase the Cripple duration from Crippling Shot by 3seconds. Your next 3 attacks inflict Torment if your target has 3 or more conditions on them.

Concussion Shot: Daze your foe with an arrow, stun if strikeing from behind or the side. I think this skill is fine.

Concussion Shot: Keep the same but add a few stacks 2-3 of confusion when striking from behind or the side. Alternatively gives 3-5 stacks of confusion when interrupting a foe.

Concussion Shot: Keep the same but add 1 stack of torment and 1 stack of confusion for 3-4 seconds on hit from behind or the side. Alternatively add 2 stack of confusion and 2 stack of torment for 3-4 seconds on an interrupt.

Concussion shot: Concussive Shot apply daze and confusion (2 stacks for 6s), stun 2 if you hit from the side or behind(+1 confussion stack) . Knock down if foe is disabled (Stun, daze, knockdown.)

Maximum potato: Concussion Shot: Stun your target, based on how far away they are from you.
(900-600 range: 0.5s)
(600-300 range: 1s)
(-300 range: 1.5s)

If anyone else has any suggestions for the Shortbow please post them here. Hopefully the Devs will see it.

Agree with everything you said shortbow has always been terrible… it should bleed on hit instead of only behind/side and the bleed should be longer than 3s. i think the math works out to a max of 9 bleeds under ideal conditions with krait runes. compare it to an ele in earth that can get 19 with auto attack.

I’d also ike to see the poison reworked because it is completely counter to a ranged weapon. similar to axe 2 but even worse because SB playstyle doesn’t encourage being in melee range like axe does.

Bleed is really weak now so totally agree the bleed application should be much easier.

I also agree with all your suggestion.

I hate conditional skills and that’s basically why shortbow is so Unappealing to me.

My only suggestion is lower the cd a little bit on concussion shot and keep the daze or increase it a bit and keep the stun.

And quick shot is great except that conditional swiftness. Make it baseline.

I agree on all other points. Auto should apply 2 bleeds if the duration is staying that low, as well.

I really like your suggestions.

I really want to see torment somewhere on Shortbow, whether applied by the ranger or our pets.

Maybe, skill 1 inflict bleed no matter position but if you hit from behind or side it also inflict torment. Or convert skill 4 to inflict torment rather than bleed.

I think Skill 2 needs to stay as some sort of AoE, although I’m not a huge fan of the cone, otherwise the weapon has zero AoE ability.

Poison Volley is a farming tool.
… A weak one, but making it a shot that deals 5 stacks on 1 target steals this purpose.

Maybe make it a cask-like arrow that breaks if it hits an enemy and spreads several nearby targets?

Creepling talon is really bad the rest is fine.
I agree bleed duration on crossfire should go up a bit.

To be honest SB is more suited as a dps due to the fast activation time of the skills and also since its conditions being very weak.

Sb is not an underwhelming weapon, it can be a good weapon if used properly.

Making it condition focused will not make it better as condition Rangers can deal plenty on conditions with Axe, Sword, Torch or Dagger.

Since the rebuild on condition, the bleed on crossfire must be “on it”.
Overall, the shortbow skills are good.

The bleeding from the back and side restriction thing is one of the silliest weapon design choices ever.

As a permanent user of SB since the beta, here are my thoughts:

General: 1200 range. This 900 range nonsense is one of the largest nerfs the weapon received.

Crossfire – Increase either the base damage on this or the scaling, kitten is a ‘1 spam’ heavy weapon. Also two stacks of bleeding each time a hit from the side or back happens

Poison Volley – It’s actually fine as-is, as it pierces and can hit multiple targets at once. If they really want to go nuts then I suggest something like ‘for the next 3 seconds your attacks cause poison’ (i.e. Apply Poison)

Quick Shot – A chill on this would be nice

Crippling Shot – Weakness on hit, next pet hit causes cripple

Concussion Shot – Probably increase daze / stun to 2s, but otherwise fine

Tragic Positive.9356:

Poison Volley is a farming tool.
… A weak one, but making it a shot that deals 5 stacks on 1 target steals this purpose.

Maybe make it a cask-like arrow that breaks if it hits an enemy and spreads several nearby targets?

I see Poison Volley like I see Spitblade on the axe has a melee skill, more closer to the target you are more bigger the stack is.

Swagger.1459:

The bleeding from the back and side restriction thing is one of the silliest weapon design choices ever.

The bleeding when hitting an enemy’s side or back is not silly, it encourages players to think about their positioning during a fight.

No, it’s just a silly restriction really.

How is it restricting you?

:| you don’t get it

Explain it then

what was I referencing when I used the word restriction?

Condri.9652:

Swagger.1459:

The bleeding from the back and side restriction thing is one of the silliest weapon design choices ever.

The bleeding when hitting an enemy’s side or back is not silly, it encourages players to think about their positioning during a fight.

The guy play engineer with a pistol who can bleed on a hit and now ask rangers to be more skilled because they want this same machanic?

please, go troll on a other forum…

Which is why it should be modified to give more stacks for skilled play. I really dislike the bleed on hit from anywhere, as the SB does not need to be even more mindless.

Piedplat.3597:

Condri.9652:

Swagger.1459:

The bleeding from the back and side restriction thing is one of the silliest weapon design choices ever.

The bleeding when hitting an enemy’s side or back is not silly, it encourages players to think about their positioning during a fight.

The guy play engineer with a pistol who can bleed on a hit and now ask rangers to be more skilled because they want this same machanic?

please, go troll on a other forum…

I’m not trying to troll anybody. Just expressing my opinion and I didn’t ask anybody to be more skilled.

What if we looked at the Shortbow from a different angle, and instead of looking at making it super condition-heavy, we tried to solidify its niche as a kiting/chasing weapon? Here’s some thoughts, although obviously they’d require a bit of refinement to actually work in practice.

- Crossfire: Make this apply bleed as baseline. No additional effect from flanking.
- Poison Volley. Leave as is.
- Quick Shot: Now applies 4 stacks of torment to the enemy, as well as current effects.
- Crippling Shot: Apply a 3s cripple to your enemy. While the enemy is crippled, attacks from behind/the sides apply an additional 1s cripple.
- Concussion Shot: Stun your target, based on how far away they are from you.
(900-600 range: 0.5s)
(600-300 range: 1s)
(-300 range: 1.5s)

Poison Volley is rubbish, it should be a single arrow that applies those Poison stacks on an area when it hits, as it is now, you need to be in melee range to use it effectively.

i dont like those changes. SB has its own playstyle, its weak but i dont want it to be turned into LB with conditions. SBs biggest problem is that it only applies bleeds. The way condi clear works (last in first out), you are constantly putting bleeds on top and any sort of condi clear is likely to take bleeds off. It needs damaging conditions that arent bleeds and/or more/longer cover conditions.

My suggestions would be:

- keep range 900. SB doesnt need 1200, you need to be close for poison, you need to swap to sword/axe up close for sigil procs and follow up with axe2 or sword3 or whatever. Maybe increase to 1000 but more isnt needed

- #1 bump direct dmg, SB should be a good hybrid weapon (it got overnerfed years ago with those animation changes and never recovered). keep flanking req for bleeds (bump to 4s maybe) but add +20% crit chance regardless of position (synergy with sharpened edges and more direct dmg)
- #2 is good, but the poison uptime is too low now. reduce cooldown.
- #3 is good (maybe add weakness or cripple)
- #4 give it longer cripple, pet inflicts torment instead of bleed
- #5 reduce CD to 20s, inflict (strong) confusion on interrupt
- 4 & 5 should deal more direct damage

Now you have bigger variety of conditions and longer uptime on poison/criple, your bleeds stay on longer or cover confusion when needed. You get more direct damage out of it. But it keeps its own interesting playstyle.

When I see the crazy amount of condis (burn, bleed, torment…) engis can deal in 1 autoattack with auto-proc traits and we have 3 sec of bleed only when flanking it seems a bit silly.
Of course with on top of that stealth mightstacking huge heals, 3 invuln and so on.
Crossfire should be fixed by making bleed to 6sec and removing the flanking requirement
AND adding another condi when hitting from the back like confusion

- #1 should have an auto chain. The third part shoots a burst of weak arrows but applies 5 stacks of bleed in addition to usual flank bleeds.
- #4 should apply torment on hit

Thank you very much everybody for posting on this and adding your suggestions. I edited the original post with a few updates based on your feedback. Let me know what you all think!

I actually really love the positional aspect of the shortbow. That said, it is pretty underwhelming. Some nice utility, but not by much. My dream Rager Shortbow Setup would sound like this:

Crossfire

• Base 2s bleed per hit – Engies have a bleed on auto 900 range, and it can affect up to 5 foes. Warriors have a bleed on auto, melee range, twice from chain, and is 8s base duration. Elementalists have a bleed on auto, 300 range, 8s base. Necros have a bleed on auto, three times from chain + poison on third chain, four point five seconds base, 900 range.
• If hit from back/side, 4s bleed instead
• 10% more base damage

Poison Volley

• 5% more base damage
• Apply Weakness if hit from back/side – not much for the outgoing target damage reduction, more about the slower endurance regen.
• 1s longer base poison duration

Quick Shot

• 10% more base damage
• 6s swiftness base instead of 3s – 3s base is a joke
• 3s Quickness if hit when retreating – would become a great escaping weapon skill

Crippling Shot

• 10% more base damage
• 4s base crippled duration (up from 3s)
• 2 stacks of Torment 5s if hit from the back/side – becomes more punishing towards escaping foes, crippling + tormenting, and torment is a movement-related damaging skill

Concussion Shot

• 10% more base damage
• 2 Confusion 4s – a small damaging condition somewhat related to concussions. The 1s is lost from the double damage while target uses skill as he’s at least dazed. But the ticking confuse damage counts

I really want the shortbow to be like a stalking weapon, and a better skirmishing weapon. I want it to punish escaping targets, and it needs a bit more punch.

Let’s compare other autos that grant bleeding:

Engineers with pistol

• 3s base bleed
• AoE 120 Radius
• Affects up to 5 targets
• 900 range

Elementalists with dagger

• 8s Bleed
• 300 Range

Warriors with sword

• 2 chains
• 8s Base Bleed
• Cleave 130 Radius
• Affects up to 3 targets

Necros with scepter

• 3 chain + 1 poison from third chain
• 4 and a half seconds
• 900 range

Rangers with shortbow

• Needs to hit from back or side
• 1 target
• 3s Base Bleed
• 900 range
• 0.54 seconds rate of fire

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Let’s compare other autos that grant bleeding:

Engineers with pistol

• 3s base bleed
• AoE 120 Radius
• Affects up to 5 targets
• 900 range

Elementalists with dagger

• 8s Bleed
• 300 Range

Warriors with sword

• 2 chains
• 8s Base Bleed
• Cleave 130 Radius
• Affects up to 3 targets

Necros with scepter

• 3 chain + 1 poison from third chain
• 4 and a half seconds
• 900 range

Rangers with shortbow

• Needs to hit from back or side
• 1 target
• 3s Base Bleed
• 900 range
• 0.54 seconds rate of fire

Yes, but what are the other classes quickness access like? Can stack quite a bit of bleed now with quickness if you are in the right spot.

I forgot, Thief auto pistol also applies bleed

‘if in the right spot’

Other professions don’t have this condition

And yes, Warrior, Engie, Thief, Necro (condi convert) can all get quickness too

If you have been around the game long enough then you well know that devs don’t compare across professions like this.

There is a good reason too. For instance, the warrior has to be in melee range of you to hit with sword. As a ranger, you can be 900 units away. That in itself makes the two things non-comparable really.

I personally try to look at the overall scope of things. The positional bleed is weak to me not because it is positional, but because bleeds were nerfed. If we are to debate that positional in itself is a bad mechanic, then LB rangers should be in here as well as the LB’s damage is predicated on position.

As more of a preference, I do not like the idea of an unconditional bleed as I feel it would be taking the SB down the auto-attack path even more. That is a problem to me as there are myriads of skills to mitigate auto spam, not to mention you can kill yourself really, really easily with confusion on you.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Yes, but what are the other classes quickness access like? Can stack quite a bit of bleed now with quickness if you are in the right spot.

As long as they are not actively pressuring you, getting in your face in melee which a warrior can do. Then, its sharpened edges that does the bleed stacking and SB is just an applicator with bad power damage.

As long as the bleed stays as a short duration as it is, it should be non-conditional, ie have no flanking requirement.

One person suggested to increase the Projectile Finisher on SB. I think this is a very good idea since it synergizes really well on the fields we have.

We also have the new smoke field that will make this even better.

I feel like SB should reward good play but not demand it to function at a basic level.

1. apply 3s bleed on hit, 2 stacks if flanking. a chain attack would be pretty cool too.
2. needs a rework. it’s a ranged attack that is most effective at point blank range which makes little sense.
   rapidly fire 5 arrows that splinter on impact dealing damage and applying 5s poison around the target, also applies 4s torment if flanking.
3. should be changed to a leap finisher and gain 3s superspeed if used in retreat.
4. cripple target 4s, if target is already crippled apply 1s immobilise and deal bonus damage instead. pets next attack applies 5 stacks of vulnerability.
5. should stay as is but also apply 5 stacks of 5s confusion if it interrupts.

increasing the projectile finisher chance would be great. i find that piercing arrows does hardly anything on sb so i would even trade that for it. change LoYF from pierce to 50% chance projectile finisher on SB skills.
having the old range and/or attack speed back would be nice too.

StickerHappy.8052:

One person suggested to increase the Projectile Finisher on SB. I think this is a very good idea since it synergizes really well on the fields we have.

We also have the new smoke field that will make this even better.

what fiels are those? if we include the good ones we’re left with torch 5. The rest are traps (why are you running anything but spike trap in a serious build? XD) or pet fields (why are you running those terrible pets? XD)

vespers.1759:

StickerHappy.8052:

One person suggested to increase the Projectile Finisher on SB. I think this is a very good idea since it synergizes really well on the fields we have.

We also have the new smoke field that will make this even better.

what fiels are those? if we include the good ones we’re left with torch 5. The rest are traps (why are you running anything but spike trap in a serious build? XD) or pet fields (why are you running those terrible pets? XD)

AF has waterfields, HS is very good for team que.

Fire trap is insanely good short CD unblockable, Smokescale has smoke field, Pig throw gunk has ethereal, Ice trap is also good for Frost field.

PS: Your teammates would have more or less fields too, think of it that way.

I really like ProtoMarcus’ suggestion of adding a bit more damage over all, and adding flanking bonuses to the rest of the shortbow.

These would be my suggestions

Crossfire
Damage: 150
Combo Finisher: Projectile (33%)
Range:900
When Flanking: Bleed your target
Bleeding: 3 stacks 3s

Poison Volley
Damage (arrow): 150
Targets (arrow): 1
Poison (arrow): 5 stacks, 4 seconds
Range:900
When Flanking: Creates Poison Field at enemy location
Combo Field: Poison
Duration: 5s
Pulses:5
Targets (field): 5
Damage (Pulse): 150
Poison (Pulse): 1 stack, 4 seconds

Quick Shot
Damage: 150
Dodge Back: ½s Evade [triggers on-dodge traits]
Swiftness: 5s [if hits]
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900
When Flanking: Cannot be blocked or reflected.

Crippling Shot
Damage: 150
Crippled: 5s
Your pet’s gains ‘Blood Thirst’.
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900
When Flanking: Ranger also gets `blood thirst`
Blood Thirst
Next three attacks bleed
Bleeding: 3 stacks 5s
Duration: 11s

Concussion Shot
Damage: 150
Daze: 1s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900
When Flanking: Confuse and Torment target
Confusion: 1 stack 4s
Torment: 1 stack 4s

So here’s combination of what everyone said

Crossfire

Bleed your enemy with each strike – 1s Bleed 1 stack Damage 10% more
Projectile finisher 50%

Poison Volley

Fire an Aoe Orb like attack that cripples and posions enemies.
Poison Field
10% more damage

Quick Shot
10% more damage
Evade 1/2, Gain 3 seconds of Super speed enemies are hit.

Crippling Shot
10%more Damage
Cripples and Slows enemies when Hit, Pet gains Quickness for 3 seconds

Concussion Shot
Same Effect + Add 3 stacks of Confusion when Not flanking, 5 stacks when flanking
Pet gains 5% more damage in the next 3 attacks

Condri.9652:

To be honest SB is more suited as a dps due to the fast activation time of the skills and also since its conditions being very weak.

Sb is not an underwhelming weapon, it can be a good weapon if used properly.

Making it condition focused will not make it better as condition Rangers can deal plenty on conditions with Axe, Sword, Torch or Dagger.

I agree.

Like the one handed sword, it’s a very fast weapon. It doesn’t deal extremely high damage but due to it’s rate of fire the damage can add up pretty quickly.

Imo it only needs a few minor changes;

Increase base damage of Crossfire 10% and make every second shot cause 4 – 5seconds bleed. Every shot causes bleed (as it currently is) if hitting from behind or the side.

Increase the base damage of Quick Shot by 25% and bring the Swiftness duration up to 6seconds. As is, 3seconds of Swiftness runs out before you even have time to start moving after the evade finishes.

Increase the Cripple duration from Crippling Shot by 3seconds. Remove the “your pets next 3 attacks inflict bleeding” and instead replace it with “your next 3 attacks inflict Torment if your target has 3 or more conditions on them.”

Increase the duration of stun and daze by 1second each for Concussion Shot.

Poison Volley is fine IMO but could maybe use a slight damage buff or 1 extra second of the base Poison duration. Otherwise it’s good.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

-snip-

Hah, nice we had very similar ideas in mind I didn’t see your post before I made mine.

I actually nearly included the adding Confusion to Concussion Shot but I thought too many people would disagree with me.

Great minds think alike (;

Thank you everyone for your continued posts! Some of your ideas are really great! I am going to continue to update my original post with your feedback. Lets keep this bumped and hopefully the devs will see it and the shortbow will get some of the changes it so desperately needs.

My edit is up let me know what you guys think. Let me know if there is anything I missed.

Short-bow rework how i see it, we need a lot more mobility on it!!!

Default 1200 range.

CrossFire:
Bleeds target on hit, delivers 2 stacks of bleed on flank or behind.

Poison valley:
Option 1:
This skill is no longer aoe skill, it becomes single target skill
Releases 3 shoots very quickly (just like a thief new utility shot one after another)
Each shoot applies 1 stack of poison, if all 3 stacks hit duration is doubled from 4 sec per shoot to 8.

Option 2:
Arrows on skill 1 are empowered with poison, adding 5 poison shots, if all 5 poison shots land poison duration is doubled.

Quick Shot:
We really need chill on this one, it’s very poorly made if you think about it, it’s to bad for fleeing since evade range is 150 distance, and it doesnt help anything!

My idea would be, you leap forward 450 range, and inflict chill for 2 seconds.
Combo finisher, if arrow lands you get speed boon for 8 seconds.

Cripple shot:
Move Quick shot mechanics on this one:
Reduce cooldown from 12 to 6 seconds, apply cripple for 2 seconds, ranger will evade backwards for 300 range.

Concussion shot:
Daze for 2 seconds, stun for 2 seconds and inflic 3 stacks of torment if you hit target from behind for 5 seconds.

I agree with a lot of this, the only real issue I have is converting poison volley into a single target shot. Ranger lacks AOE already, it would be nice to keep it on poison volley somehow.

Yeah having to be in shotgun range to get the full effect is a bit annoying, which is why I wish something like a preparation could be implemented. It would actually tie all of our suggestions together if each arrow inflicted poison for a short duration. While not AOE, it would allow more than one target to be affected, and I’d be fine with that.

Personally I feel like the short bow should be a mobile ranged condition weapon. Its should not be a weapon that can be spammed but rather a weapon that becomes stronger with the right positioning. I think I speak for most rangers in saying I actually really like the positional requirements of “Cross fire” the only problem being that “Cross fire” is pathetically weak. I think its a really cool idia to get the other shortbow weapon skills a similar mechanic to “Cross fire” I.e: If you your striking form behind or side you gain an additional powerful benefit.

I run a SB+ A/WH build with Sinister gear, Initial burst i have seen bleed ticks for 5k+(i saw a 6k tick once on a vinewrath boss) avg i see ticks from 3.5k to 4k through out the whole fight. This is what i run

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNQQNBlODbkQFqZxSWwiF4axghQ9HwzmzdHcCtAHAjepfxUnMB-TFCBABVoEMinAgg7P8suhpV/BgLCADm/cS5HpAsbOA-w

For pvp and wvw i like a lil more toughness so i swap SotW to SoS and SotP to Entangle.

Other than that, i use this build everywhere and have been kittend at left and right about my bleeds so…well…and the murderous rainbow unicorns

Padra.1678:

Personally I feel like the short bow should be a mobile ranged condition weapon. Its should not be a weapon that can be spammed but rather a weapon that becomes stronger with the right positioning. I think I speak for most rangers in saying I actually really like the positional requirements of “Cross fire” the only problem being that “Cross fire” is pathetically weak. I think its a really cool idia to get the other shortbow weapon skills a similar mechanic to “Cross fire” I.e: If you your striking form behind or side you gain an additional powerful benefit.

SB already is a mobile ranged condition weapon which becomes stronger with the right positioning. The reason the AA needs an unconditional bleed on it is because without it, it is weak. By having decent damage on AA and utility on the other skills, you encourage better kiting play, exactly what the SB is designed, albeit pooly, around. You already need to have good positioning due to the 900 range, don’t make us require it to apply a little pressure as well.

And I really think that you are incorrect when you say "I think I speak for most rangers in saying I actually really like the positional requirements of “Cross fire”, if it wasn’t for that, it would be vastly more popular.

Guys (all of the poster)

I am wondering Do you guys have any ideas to make shortbow make really well with pets? As of now there is only 1 skill that interacts with the pet. It would really interesting to have a weapon with a lot of synergy with the pet.