Guild Wars 2

Looks like the ranger lost nearly all their stability.

lets not pretend anyone actually used SotW in effective builds. including the trait from Marks. Soulbeast will give you all the stability you need.

Soulbeast? What are you referring to? The wiki page doesn’t even contain the word stability.

Marcarus.5012:

Soulbeast? What are you referring to? The wiki page doesn’t even contain the word stability.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

Please. The crying is too much.

StickerHappy.8052:

Marcarus.5012:

Soulbeast? What are you referring to? The wiki page doesn’t even contain the word stability.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

Please. The crying is too much.

But currently Soulbeast does not exist. And they really did strip a lot of stab from Rangers in general.

Heibi.4251:

StickerHappy.8052:

Marcarus.5012:

Soulbeast? What are you referring to? The wiki page doesn’t even contain the word stability.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

Please. The crying is too much.

But currently Soulbeast does not exist. And they really did strip a lot of stab from Rangers in general.

It’s coming in less than 2 months and no one was going to run both dolyaks and SoW. If the soulbeast elite wasn’t so terrible I’d almost say you wouldn’t even need to slot SotP.

7.5 seconds of stab every 30s (probably even less with a trait) is very solid.

Not sure why making crappy ranger changes encourages me to buy this thing.

An important note… I’m guessing dolyak stance is only available to soulbeast. Strength of the pack and the old version of signet of the wild are core skills available no matter what the elite or build traits you take. I did not care for the nerf of strength of the pack with both cooldown and taking away the reapply ticks of stability. This is now followed by removing the only other form of stability that is not gated behind celestial form. I think the complaint is justified. Less options and more pigeon-holing not a good move for the game in my opinion.

Kilrik.4630:

An important note… I’m guessing dolyak stance is only available to soulbeast. Strength of the pack and the old version of signet of the wild are core skills available no matter what the elite or build traits you take. I did not care for the nerf of strength of the pack with both cooldown and taking away the reapply ticks of stability. This is now followed by removing the only other form of stability that is not gated behind celestial form. I think the complaint is justified. Less options and more pigeon-holing not a good move for the game in my opinion.

Lets face it, who uses SoTW for stab in pvp? Even in highest tier pvp. No one.

StickerHappy.8052:

Kilrik.4630:

An important note… I’m guessing dolyak stance is only available to soulbeast. Strength of the pack and the old version of signet of the wild are core skills available no matter what the elite or build traits you take. I did not care for the nerf of strength of the pack with both cooldown and taking away the reapply ticks of stability. This is now followed by removing the only other form of stability that is not gated behind celestial form. I think the complaint is justified. Less options and more pigeon-holing not a good move for the game in my opinion.

Lets face it, who uses SoTW for stab in pvp? Even in highest tier pvp. No one.

For WvW it virtually never leaves my bar, the damage burst, stability and increased speed made it a very good skill. Now it’s pretty useless to me, tbh.

StickerHappy.8052:

Kilrik.4630:

An important note… I’m guessing dolyak stance is only available to soulbeast. Strength of the pack and the old version of signet of the wild are core skills available no matter what the elite or build traits you take. I did not care for the nerf of strength of the pack with both cooldown and taking away the reapply ticks of stability. This is now followed by removing the only other form of stability that is not gated behind celestial form. I think the complaint is justified. Less options and more pigeon-holing not a good move for the game in my opinion.

Lets face it, who uses SoTW for stab in pvp? Even in highest tier pvp. No one.

There’s more to the game than sPvP though.

Dolyak Stance won’t have a cast time and is actually a stunbreaker as well and removes immobilized and has a pretty good cooldown.

The downside is that you’d have to buy the expansion. Which is stupid.

What to make of this? First off it severely nerfs avatar power generation as that passive heal meant +2%/s if you and your pet weren’t at full health. Granting another immobilize is nigh worthless, as it is one of the worse pvp mechanics against many professions… or was it unblockable attacks? Situationally useful at best. Removing the stability after Strength of the Pack nerf is utterly ridiculous. Yes, dolyak stance but who cares? This ability was good enough to be an elite, especially considering Strength of the Pack didn’t grant anything other than vanilla boons and stability.

If this is a way to make druid less appealing and soulbeast a must have, lame.
If this is an unintended consequence of making useless abilities more appealing, lame.

The thing is though a lot of us may not use that elite. There should be options for us to have stability else where rather than shoving it all behind the new elite.

mistsim.2748:

lets not pretend anyone actually used SotW in effective builds. including the trait from Marks. Soulbeast will give you all the stability you need.

I use it in Spirit Run to not die on the log jump part. Does this mean I’ll have to rely on pug chronos to distort me now? =(

Holland.9351:

Dolyak Stance won’t have a cast time and is actually a stunbreaker as well and removes immobilized and has a pretty good cooldown.

The downside is that you’d have to buy the expansion. Which is stupid.

Anyone who wanted to stay competitive in pvp/wvw would have bought it anyway. What happened with HoT is going to happen again. This balance pass was them setting up the pins.

Hell, SB looks like it’s going to be very solid performance-wise and a lot of fun to play besides that. I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t buy the expansion. It’s even 20 bucks less than HoT was and looks like it will have a lot more content.

Substance E.4852:

Holland.9351:

Dolyak Stance won’t have a cast time and is actually a stunbreaker as well and removes immobilized and has a pretty good cooldown.

The downside is that you’d have to buy the expansion. Which is stupid.

Anyone who wanted to stay competitive in pvp/wvw would have bought it anyway. What happened with HoT is going to happen again. This balance pass was them setting up the pins.

Hell, SB looks like it’s going to be very solid performance-wise and a lot of fun to play besides that. I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t buy the expansion. It’s even 20 bucks less than HoT was and looks like it will have a lot more content.

we don’t know anything, i’m amaze the people sings the same song as two years ago with the druid.
IMO Soulbeast is going to be useless And you know why? because it will be an spec which will need to play like the thief actually does now but without all the mobility and stealth that class has. So mark my words: i pretty sure soulbeast will a be another disappointment.

So let’s focus in what we have now: core ranger is without stability and that’s wrong. If team irenio wants to remove the stability the class should go for the original archer design.

It can’t be that we have to get ridiculous close with the shortbow or the axe but we don’t have any access to stability. And i can swear the CC has gone thru the roof with this patch with all the new condis.

I think too many people are making too big of a deal out of stab. The only place it really hurts, and this is if you aren’t in a good group is WvW other wise you can make do without it. I have run a stabless build for sPvP since launch, and while at times stab might have been nice, it never made it harder for me to survive. Ranger has a lot of survival tools along with a large health pool.

Substance E.4852:

It’s coming in less than 2 months and no one was going to run both dolyaks and SoW. If the soulbeast elite wasn’t so terrible I’d almost say you wouldn’t even need to slot SotP.

7.5 seconds of stab every 30s (probably even less with a trait) is very solid.

I know you guys understand they did the changes to make the new expac attractive, you just don’t want to admit it because of some high standard you hold GW2 to. Gotta make profit to pay the staff, y’know.

Kitty.1502:

I think too many people are making too big of a deal out of stab. The only place it really hurts, and this is if you aren’t in a good group is WvW other wise you can make do without it. I have run a stabless build for sPvP since launch, and while at times stab might have been nice, it never made it harder for me to survive. Ranger has a lot of survival tools along with a large health pool.

Well it hurts a lot of places if you play as though you are another profession with easy access to it. It definitely is a state of mind, and rangers can’t play the way tempests or warriors play. But your’e right, I usually don’t play with stab and do just fine because we’re used to it.

It’s weird the devs don’t want us to even have the option of stability with some give and take builds. It’s just “rangers can’t have stability.”

Fluffball.8307:

…It’s weird the devs don’t want us to even have the option of stability with some give and take builds. It’s just “rangers can’t have stability.”

It is weird to me because we had some of the best stability in the game before they nerfed pulsing stab and 60s CD on SotP and then SotW. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind it, that is for sure.

pre-casting stability was never really a thing on the ranger. it just didnt work. SotP was ok sometimes because of how long it lasts, but overall it sucks as well. we need instacast stab, and Dolyak Stance will give us that with the Soulbeast. rangers never belonged in the frontline wvw scenario, but druids pretty much require stab from other sources, like necros.

in summary, losing SoW’s stab is trivial because it was never slotted in any decent build. our signets received good and thoughtful buffs across the board. i imagine this outcry is coming from really inexperienced players mostly.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is weird to me because we had some of the best stability in the game before they nerfed pulsing stab and 60s CD on SotP and then SotW. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind it, that is for sure.

My thoughts exactly. It’s not like necro that has NEVER had things like evades or blocks or stealth or whatever, ranger has historically had good, even the best access to stability. And now we have basically nothing. It’s like core ranger has been redesigned with only nerfs.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is weird to me because we had some of the best stability in the game before they nerfed pulsing stab and 60s CD on SotP and then SotW. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind it, that is for sure.

really man? our stab abilities always had a cast time. stab abilities with a cast time are garbage, because you can’t use them when you need them the most.

mistsim.2748:

SotP was ok sometimes because of how long it lasts

SotP used to be hands down, inarguably the best elite in the game and the best stab in the game. Now it’s complete horse kitten. That’s a weird 180.

Fluffball.8307:

mistsim.2748:

SotP was ok sometimes because of how long it lasts

SotP used to be hands down, inarguably the best elite in the game and the best stab in the game. Now it’s complete horse kitten. That’s a weird 180.

Well people still use it, even in high MMR pvp. Honestly for me, I just it for the Stab for AF. That’s it. or for safe stomps and resses.

Fluffball.8307:

mistsim.2748:

SotP was ok sometimes because of how long it lasts

SotP used to be hands down, inarguably the best elite in the game and the best stab in the game. Now it’s complete horse kitten. That’s a weird 180.

it really never was. it was easy to corrupt it because it didnt pulse. and any stab ability with a cast time is not very useful for the reason i explained above. at least not in wvw. duels and small fights, different story because stomping is important.

And even in those cases, it’s at risk for necro scepter auto attack turning you into a CC.

I’m relatively fine with us not having stab. It’s just a weird about face. It’s like giving necro the best stealth ability in the game.

Edit: The stab used to pulse mistsim.

Fluffball.8307:

Edit: The stab used to pulse mistsim.

right my mistake, i forget how many iterations it went through.

Yup, so it went from best elite to worst(ish) elite. And then to hammer home the point they removed the little used stab from the signet. Ionno.

mistsim.2748:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is weird to me because we had some of the best stability in the game before they nerfed pulsing stab and 60s CD on SotP and then SotW. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind it, that is for sure.

really man? our stab abilities always had a cast time. stab abilities with a cast time are garbage, because you can’t use them when you need them the most.

If you think that, then either you obviously never played WvW /PvP or you yourself are the inexperienced player.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

mistsim.2748:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is weird to me because we had some of the best stability in the game before they nerfed pulsing stab and 60s CD on SotP and then SotW. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind it, that is for sure.

really man? our stab abilities always had a cast time. stab abilities with a cast time are garbage, because you can’t use them when you need them the most.

If you think that, then either you obviously never played WvW /PvP or you yourself are the inexperienced player.

you’re the one saying really outlandish things, not me. i guess i’ll take my 3k hours in wvw and pvp, half of it on my ranger, and go sit over there. and you just keep thinking RANGERS had some of the best stability in the game. hint: with the exception of thieves and necros, we always had the worst stab in the game because of our cast-times. warriors, guards, eles, even engies all had insta-stab, i.e. the only kind that counts.

and when you stop wallowing about losing “some of the best stab in the game”, you’ll realize how insanely powerful the new signets are.

anduriell.6280:

IMO Soulbeast is going to be useless And you know why? because it will be an spec which will need to play like the thief actually does now but without all the mobility and stealth that class has. So mark my words: i pretty sure soulbeast will a be another disappointment.

Why would a core ranger perform better than a Soulbeast?
Why would you compare Soulbeast’s gameplay to a Thief?
Just curious.

Earix.5684:

anduriell.6280:

IMO Soulbeast is going to be useless And you know why? because it will be an spec which will need to play like the thief actually does now but without all the mobility and stealth that class has. So mark my words: i pretty sure soulbeast will a be another disappointment.

Why would a core ranger perform better than a Soulbeast?
Why would you compare Soulbeast’s gameplay to a Thief?
Just curious.

thats just what he does. all of his posts are irrational whines.

mistsim.2748:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

mistsim.2748:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

It is weird to me because we had some of the best stability in the game before they nerfed pulsing stab and 60s CD on SotP and then SotW. I’d like to hear the reasoning behind it, that is for sure.

really man? our stab abilities always had a cast time. stab abilities with a cast time are garbage, because you can’t use them when you need them the most.

If you think that, then either you obviously never played WvW /PvP or you yourself are the inexperienced player.

you’re the one saying really outlandish things, not me. i guess i’ll take my 3k hours in wvw and pvp, half of it on my ranger, and go sit over there. and you just keep thinking RANGERS had some of the best stability in the game. hint: with the exception of thieves and necros, we always had the worst stab in the game because of our cast-times. warriors, guards, eles, even engies all had insta-stab, i.e. the only kind that counts.

and when you stop wallowing about losing “some of the best stab in the game”, you’ll realize how insanely powerful the new signets are.

Insanely powerful is going a bit far. I’m not wallowing in anything, I just think;

• SotH didn’t need the CD increase for that effect, it’s not as good as Signet of Might already and it now has a 15s longer CD.

• SoR was the best condi clear we had, for the investment. Now, it’s still pretty good but I doubt I’ll use it on core or SB. I don’t get why they changed it.

• SotW having a cast time didn’t affect my ability to use it to stomp people or avoid CC, probably because I used dodge/Zephyrs Speed before casting it. Losing +25% damage and +50% speed with 5 stacks of Stab for 12s (50% duration) is pretty massive to me, many many times it allowed me to burst the last of someones health and then safe stomp them while outnumbered. To trade that for a bit more immob is not worth it, I will use it though. The number of times I have been able to pre-cast it in anticipation of a Steal successfully is also many times, same goes for zerg play, now we will NEED to use SoulB.

These changes scream “Buy our expansion or stay in the dust” even m,ore than HoT.

mistsim.2748:

you’re the one saying really outlandish things, not me. i guess i’ll take my 3k hours in wvw and pvp, half of it on my ranger, and go sit over there. and you just keep thinking RANGERS had some of the best stability in the game. hint: with the exception of thieves and necros, we always had the worst stab in the game because of our cast-times. warriors, guards, eles, even engies all had insta-stab, i.e. the only kind that counts.

There are people with 10k+ hours in the game who are still, well, not very good, have poor knowledge of the game, etc.

And talking of poor knowledge let’s look at your statement of:

we always had the worst stab in the game because of our cast-times. warriors, guards, eles, even engies all had insta-stab, i.e. the only kind that counts.

Firstly engies had trash stab up until HoT way worse than rangers options (their stab was basically toss elixir B ), they only got the gyro / evade stab with HoT.

Secondly instacast is not only the useful type, pulsing stab even with a cast times was really strong, and for much of the game until the pulsing was nerfed Strength of the pack was really, really strong.

Thirdly SotW was used in small scale and PvP, there were times it was even meta for PvP, roamers in WvW also used it – PotatoVeg for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7330t17IL9A (only Ranger streamer I can remember who roamed pre-HoT).

But anyway back to the OP, it is pretty obvious if you look at a lot of the nerfs across many classes that they are setting up the powercreep for PoF to “encourage” people to buy it, because their product isn’t apparently good enough to stand on things like quality content, features, etc.

I’ll never quiet understand the people who give me the impression that they never have bought an expansion before, a company needs to have strong selling points in order to have sales go well, it really is a no-brainer.

anduriell.6280:

Substance E.4852:

Holland.9351:

Dolyak Stance won’t have a cast time and is actually a stunbreaker as well and removes immobilized and has a pretty good cooldown.

The downside is that you’d have to buy the expansion. Which is stupid.

Anyone who wanted to stay competitive in pvp/wvw would have bought it anyway. What happened with HoT is going to happen again. This balance pass was them setting up the pins.

Hell, SB looks like it’s going to be very solid performance-wise and a lot of fun to play besides that. I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t buy the expansion. It’s even 20 bucks less than HoT was and looks like it will have a lot more content.

we don’t know anything, i’m amaze the people sings the same song as two years ago with the druid.
IMO Soulbeast is going to be useless And you know why? because it will be an spec which will need to play like the thief actually does now but without all the mobility and stealth that class has. So mark my words: i pretty sure soulbeast will a be another disappointment.

So let’s focus in what we have now: core ranger is without stability and that’s wrong. If team irenio wants to remove the stability the class should go for the original archer design.

It can’t be that we have to get ridiculous close with the shortbow or the axe but we don’t have any access to stability. And i can swear the CC has gone thru the roof with this patch with all the new condis.

I’m marking your words. Is three months after release a good time to check on these statements?

Loss of stability, unique damage and movement bonuses were major hits. And now, SotW is the only signet with an active that does not have any pet interaction. Hmm…

zinkz.7045:

But anyway back to the OP, it is pretty obvious if you look at a lot of the nerfs across many classes that they are setting up the powercreep for PoF to “encourage” people to buy it, because their product isn’t apparently good enough to stand on things like quality content, features, etc.

this is nothing more than irrational conspiracy theorizing. I don’t even need to address the rest of your drivel.

there is way too much whining about stability, as if it was ever good for the ranger. but I understand everyone is entitled to express themselves civilly. I will just say that the only viable build SoW was ever used for was the bunker condi ranger. while its active was nice for stomping people, it was mostly used for its regen that scaled with HP. other than this, SoW should never have been slotted, unless your talking some cheesy wvw glassbow build.

I’d be baffled to see all this crying over spilled milk, if I wasn’t in the ranger forums where tears and hissy fits trump reason and optimism. as if we didnt get to dominate pvp for two whole years with the druid, during which SoW was never slotted.

to conclude, stability gated by cast-times was always a major problem for the ranger. a removal of one such ability, out of the two, makes zero difference for the profession moving forward. SoW was just a very situational utility. mind you, even in the current rework it is by far the weakest of the signets.

MakubeC.3026:

anduriell.6280:

Substance E.4852:

Holland.9351:

Dolyak Stance won’t have a cast time and is actually a stunbreaker as well and removes immobilized and has a pretty good cooldown.

The downside is that you’d have to buy the expansion. Which is stupid.

Anyone who wanted to stay competitive in pvp/wvw would have bought it anyway. What happened with HoT is going to happen again. This balance pass was them setting up the pins.

Hell, SB looks like it’s going to be very solid performance-wise and a lot of fun to play besides that. I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t buy the expansion. It’s even 20 bucks less than HoT was and looks like it will have a lot more content.

we don’t know anything, i’m amaze the people sings the same song as two years ago with the druid.
IMO Soulbeast is going to be useless And you know why? because it will be an spec which will need to play like the thief actually does now but without all the mobility and stealth that class has. So mark my words: i pretty sure soulbeast will a be another disappointment.

So let’s focus in what we have now: core ranger is without stability and that’s wrong. If team irenio wants to remove the stability the class should go for the original archer design.

It can’t be that we have to get ridiculous close with the shortbow or the axe but we don’t have any access to stability. And i can swear the CC has gone thru the roof with this patch with all the new condis.

I’m marking your words. Is three months after release a good time to check on these statements?

lets say 6, it was the time it lasted with the druid.

mistsim.2748:

Earix.5684:

anduriell.6280:

IMO Soulbeast is going to be useless And you know why? because it will be an spec which will need to play like the thief actually does now but without all the mobility and stealth that class has. So mark my words: i pretty sure soulbeast will a be another disappointment.

Why would a core ranger perform better than a Soulbeast?
Why would you compare Soulbeast’s gameplay to a Thief?
Just curious.

thats just what he does. all of his posts are irrational whines.

Yup, i’m not the one who is repeating like a parrot something is going to be good although nobody could test it yet, . And although we know the beta will show a op spec i know better than expect it to last long.

Which either case doesn’t invalidate the core profession is totally locked into WK if you want to play competitive, no build diversity i see.

look here is a cookie for being good boi…

Is stability required/valued only in WvW and sPvP, vs. having it in PvE? I ask because I don’t think I ever used it in PvE.

I had a build before the current 3 traitlines that abused signet of the wild based off of bird pets that would get 25 stacks of might without strength of the pack and I’d give them quickness with the damage buff from signet of the wild….and enemies died quickly. It was a thing of beauty…who knows what they plan unless they are finally going to bring out an elite signet that may do what the old signet of the wild now used to do, or something similar.

mistsim.2748:

I don’t even need to address the rest of your drivel.

Those were facts dear, the things you are woefully short on, so you don’t have an answer for, only your usual empty rhetoric, still at least you gave me a chuckle when you claimed rangers always had worse stab than engies.

zinkz.7045:

mistsim.2748:

I don’t even need to address the rest of your drivel.

Those were facts dear, the things you are woefully short on, so you don’t have an answer for, only your usual empty rhetoric, still at least you gave me a chuckle when you claimed rangers always had worse stab than engies.

Calling trash Toss Elixir B whereas it’s a very good source of Stab (considering its duration and the cooldown of the skill) that you can share or even give to an another mate in team fight is a joke when you compare it with the old SotW.

borya.2964:

zinkz.7045:

mistsim.2748:

I don’t even need to address the rest of your drivel.

Those were facts dear, the things you are woefully short on, so you don’t have an answer for, only your usual empty rhetoric, still at least you gave me a chuckle when you claimed rangers always had worse stab than engies.

Calling trash Toss Elixir B whereas it’s a very good source of Stab (considering its duration and the cooldown of the skill) that you can share or even give to an another mate in team fight is a joke when you compare it with the old SotW.

Maybe read things properly before you jump in, the claim was that “we (rangers) always had the worst stab in the game”, I mean I just completely ignored how ludicrous that statement was in relation to thief, and focused on that he specifically mentioned engies, so that is not simply about SotW that is about all stab available to a class.

Rangers had SotW, (plus enlargement that triggered at 50% hp), plus most importantly Strength of the Pack which was a pulsating stab (so much better against boon removal / CC strip) and one of the strongest stab skills in the game. (so strong they nerfed the pulsing aspect and the cooldown)

Where as Toss Elixir B is lacking outside of sPvP/roaming (and even in those situations Strength of the Pack was often vastly superior), because firstly it is very easy to get inadvertently interrupted if you are in large scale, secondly it does not have the long duration that ranger stabs had so there is much less benefit casting it somewhere safe and then having a nice long duration left to make use of it like with the ranger ones and thirdly as a group stab utility in most situations it was a joke because it had a pathetic 180 radius (stand your ground for reference has 600) and was reflectable, hence nowhere in the history of GW2 WvW did you hear the phrase, “We are short on guards, can we have some engies to provide some group stab for the zerg/guild”.

Yes, we thief mains are heartbroken for you… honest.

Heibi.4251:

Looks like the ranger lost nearly all their stability.

Uh, uh, we lost not only our longest and most valuable stability – we lost precision from foods.

Between the two my build was destroyed.

Builds can’t do much without stability – you left us three total. Two in traits, a whole one in utilties.

Please refer to the wiki to see just how badly balanced the skills are now. Rip boon, Rip, Rip, Stealth, Stealth, Stability For Few, and no way to play builds all previously decent to good even in WvW and raids.

Stability from a single utility? One that has a really long cooldown? Ouch.

I’d really like an answer from Anet why stability was removed and why precision was deleted from foods except the most expensive writs.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability

Diak Atoli.2085:

Is stability required/valued only in WvW and sPvP, vs. having it in PvE? I ask because I don’t think I ever used it in PvE.

Ever play WvW in the Desert Bl?

If not, I can’t explain it to you.