Guild Wars 2

So I actually think the Celestial Form and many traits attached to it are strong in sPvP. Same for certain Glyphs. Staff might be cool as well (too little info to tell yet) but I have some trouble to pair it with other weapons and in some builds I might prefer to run Druid but not staff.

Question is: Is this even possible? Out of staff the amount of heals is actually quite limited so will we even be able to gather enough astral energy with just damage? Will it just take too long? Do incoming heals count or only outgoing? I guess regeneration doesn’t.

A skill like LB Barrage has the potential to hit many targets and fill up some of the astral energy but it seems almost hopeless with:

• LB -> a full Barrage on 5 targets would add 15%
• SB -> no ways to fill the bar efficiently beside just autoattacking like 400 times
• GS -> hardly ever hits more than 1-2 targets, you would have to autoattack like 200-300 times
• Sword, Axe -> similiar issue, even Axe bouncing won’t do much
• Torch, Dagger -> forget it
• Warhorn, Offhand Axe -> warhorn might be ok, axe with the whirl but that isn’t even viable now

Non Staff Heals:

• healing spirit I guess :|
• blasting healing springs water field with warhorn :|
• pet healing with traits (does that even count?)
• self heal with troll unguent ticks would be good (25%) but does it count?

So is it even possible to reliably fill the Celestial Form without staff?

What do you guys think?

The question is not whether we can we fill it up, the question is whether we can enter the form if we don’t have full Astral Force. Filling it up only halfway should be enough to burst heal if necessary, but if entering the form requires full Astral Force, (probably won’t), then building Astral Force may be a problem.

If you trait into Clarion Call on swap you can blast fields on pet swap too. It’s what I tend to do instead of running a warhorn in combat.

I have no intention of using the staff but I’ll need to test it during the next BWE to see how viable it is for myself and my playstyle.

Mcrocha.3891:

The question is not whether we can we fill it up, the question is whether we can enter the form if we don’t have full Astral Force. Filling it up only halfway should be enough to burst heal if necessary, but if entering the form requires full Astral Force, (probably won’t), then building Astral Force may be a problem.

From what I understood you need full Astral Force. There are ICD less traits that clear ALL condis when entering this state.

This is made doubly funny as Staff and celestial form basically serve the same function (spamming out heals) so taking both compunds the lack of diversity in what Druid can offer.

“Is staff-less Druid even possible?”

Yes. Yes it is.

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

The question is not whether we can we fill it up, the question is whether we can enter the form if we don’t have full Astral Force. Filling it up only halfway should be enough to burst heal if necessary, but if entering the form requires full Astral Force, (probably won’t), then building Astral Force may be a problem.

From what I understood you need full Astral Force. There are ICD less traits that clear ALL condis when entering this state.

I think you need at least half of the max Astral Force, the minor trait Celestial Being that gives access to the form only says that once you “Generate enough Astral Force” you may transform into the Avatar. This could mean 100% but it is not clear so we will wait and see.

Edit: also to address the ICD point, Once you exit Celestial form it will probably have a cooldown so you can’t abuse the condi clear

Nike.2631:

“Is staff-less Druid even possible?”

Yes. Yes it is.

This makes the problem really clear imo. Considering an sPvP match you will take waaaay too long to reach 100% with that. You want to autoattack 400 times? If atleast troll unguent really gave 25% due to the 10 ticks then this would help a lot but no one even knows that for sure. Imagine if it even resets on death (which I assume).

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

The question is not whether we can we fill it up, the question is whether we can enter the form if we don’t have full Astral Force. Filling it up only halfway should be enough to burst heal if necessary, but if entering the form requires full Astral Force, (probably won’t), then building Astral Force may be a problem.

From what I understood you need full Astral Force. There are ICD less traits that clear ALL condis when entering this state.

I think you need at least half of the max Astral Force, the minor trait Celestial Being that gives access to the form only says that once you “Generate enough Astral Force” you may transform into the Avatar. This could mean 100% but it is not clear so we will wait and see.

Edit: also to address the ICD point, Once you exit Celestial form it will probably have a cooldown so you can’t abuse the condi clear

I hope you are correct but this doesn’t change the very slow fill rate without staff. Guess I would just try to reach the minimum then to gain access to the condi clearing without actually casting celestial skills.

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

How about water sigils? One more AoE heal every ~5s.

We’ll have one BWE to give feedback on this

Troll Unguent may actually give 20 ticks if the heal on pet is counting separately. Since it doesn’t appear to bleed off outside of combat like adrenaline you can probably pre-load it between matches like Necro life-force.

But that build treats Avatar Mode (sorry, have to call it that) as an ace in the hole rather than part of its regular rotation, getting it late in a match is probably acceptable.

Dojo.1867:

Nike.2631:

“Is staff-less Druid even possible?”

Yes. Yes it is.

This makes the problem really clear imo. Considering an sPvP match you will take waaaay too long to reach 100% with that. You want to autoattack 400 times? If atleast troll unguent really gave 25% due to the 10 ticks then this would help a lot but no one even knows that for sure. Imagine if it even resets on death (which I assume).

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

The question is not whether we can we fill it up, the question is whether we can enter the form if we don’t have full Astral Force. Filling it up only halfway should be enough to burst heal if necessary, but if entering the form requires full Astral Force, (probably won’t), then building Astral Force may be a problem.

From what I understood you need full Astral Force. There are ICD less traits that clear ALL condis when entering this state.

I think you need at least half of the max Astral Force, the minor trait Celestial Being that gives access to the form only says that once you “Generate enough Astral Force” you may transform into the Avatar. This could mean 100% but it is not clear so we will wait and see.

Edit: also to address the ICD point, Once you exit Celestial form it will probably have a cooldown so you can’t abuse the condi clear

I hope you are correct but this doesn’t change the very slow fill rate without staff. Guess I would just try to reach the minimum then to gain access to the condi clearing without actually casting celestial skills.

I hear you, the AF generation could definitely be a problem. If you go back and look at the video for the Druid and skip to the part where they are discussing the traits you can see that the Celestial Form bar is only filled up a little bit on one side of the bar, but not the other. This leads me to believe that it will fill up half of the bar first and then proceed to fill the other half. Once we get the half though I speculate that we will be able to use the form.

I think we should suggest however, that the grandmaster trait Lingering Light be changed in functionality to something like “generate AF quicker, and degenerate AF slower while in Celestial Form”. The current functionality of the trait seems a little lackluster to me, but ofc we do need to test it first.

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

It’s not 25% it’s 2.5% btw.

Halan.7931:

I wonder is Troll Unguent ticks count as separate “heal” for this purpose.

Yeah that is what most of us wonder and if the pet ticks count aswell. If so a single troll unguent would actually fill half the bar (50%) which I kind of doubt will happen. Would make it too strong for druid compared to other heals.

Maybe they should indeed make the whole thing a real conversion instead but lower the astral force per damage/heal (since right now 0.25% per damage seems way too much).

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

It’s not 25% it’s 2.5% btw.

2.5% for the healing, 0.25% (1/4%) for the damage.

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

Awww!!! I get it, so it would be more related to the atual number of hits rather than the damage dealt (wich means that to charge you astral form faster it would be better to use skills like Rapid fire and Barrage rather than a single 8k on hit skill like Maul for example).

I was hoping it would have been something more similar to Death Shroud in terms of how to build up astral force…. …. I’m very sad now

Dave Pare.2069:

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

Awww!!! I get it, so it would be more related to the atual number of hits rather than the damage dealt (wich means that to charge you astral form faster it would be better to use skills like Rapid fire and Barrage rather than a single 8k on hit skill like Maul for example).

I was hoping it would have been something more similar to Death Shroud in terms of how to build up astral force…. …. I’m very sad now

That is what I thought aswell and which would be the better system imo but check these numbers on the left (celestial being): http://i.imgur.com/8wSBOKg.jpg

0.25% per damage would be way to high for actual conversion which is why people think it means “0.25% whenever you deal damage” and not “for every damage point dealt”.

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

It’s not 25% it’s 2.5% btw.

2.5% for the healing, 0.25% (1/4%) for the damage.

Correct, which means your calculation is incorrect because it would be 400 × 0.025 not 0.25.

Bleed stacks may become more useful too if each tick counts for a separate damage dealt, considering how many bleed sources are out there. Maybe there’s a new settler/apothecary heavy condi/heal build to be found.

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

It’s not 25% it’s 2.5% btw.

2.5% for the healing, 0.25% (1/4%) for the damage.

Correct, which means your calculation is incorrect because it would be 400 × 0.025 not 0.25.

Ok but let’s not be too pessimistic here guys!!! Let’s wait for the first druid beta week-end to conclude and see the feedbacks of both community and devs… there will be reworks and retweets to do for sure about the actual numbers. I have hope this time!!!

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

It’s not 25% it’s 2.5% btw.

2.5% for the healing, 0.25% (1/4%) for the damage.

Correct, which means your calculation is incorrect because it would be 400 × 0.025 not 0.25.

I worte 0.25% which is the same as 0.0025. 400 * 0.25% = 100%. 400 * 0.0025 = 1.

Why are you assuming regen doesn’t count as outgoing healing? Did they mention that somewhere? I’m hoping having a traited “We Heal as One” will help fill the bar.

LB/GS Roaming Druid

Missing skill is Glyph of Equality

Druid Traits; Druidic Clarity, Natural Stride, Ancient Seeds

Puck.9612:

Why are you assuming regen doesn’t count as outgoing healing? Did they mention that somewhere? I’m hoping having a traited “We Heal as One” will help fill the bar.

Yup, same, it counts as outgoing when you use monk runes so really hoping it counts for CAF.

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

It’s not 25% it’s 2.5% btw.

2.5% for the healing, 0.25% (1/4%) for the damage.

Correct, which means your calculation is incorrect because it would be 400 × 0.025 not 0.25.

I worte 0.25% which is the same as 0.0025. 400 * 0.25% = 100%. 400 * 0.0025 = 1.

Right so if you damage someone for 400 then it only fills up the bar by 1 theoretically

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Mcrocha.3891:

Dojo.1867:

Dave Pare.2069:

I think everything depends on the actual percentage of damage trasformed in asrtal form… I hope that with very offensive stats (Berserk/Marauder) the damage dealt would be enough to give you astral force but I don’t think staff would be viable in this offensive druid builds: a standard LB/GS combo has the potential to work fine imo even if I’m not thrilled about it… My hopes are directed towards more hybrid builds with the use both of damage and healing power with staff (something like Celestial/Crusader or even Settler with a staff paired with SB or Sword/Dagger with Skirmishing-Wilderness Survival-Druid split taking advantage of bleed and poison)

Anyway, it is too soon to give a definitive answer even though the potential of this specialization seems amazing…the best out of all the Elite Specialization imo, maybe not the most original but definitely the one that opens more build combination possibilities, both offensive, supportive or hybrid orientated.

I also first thought it would be a conversion of damage dealt/healing done but with the numbers they showed that would mean you only have to deal 400 damage (400 * 0.25% = 100%).

The common understanding is that you actually have to deal damage (no matter how much) 400 times (400 single instances). Thus the effectiveness of skills like Barrage that I mentioned.

It’s not 25% it’s 2.5% btw.

2.5% for the healing, 0.25% (1/4%) for the damage.

Correct, which means your calculation is incorrect because it would be 400 × 0.025 not 0.25.

I worte 0.25% which is the same as 0.0025. 400 * 0.25% = 100%. 400 * 0.0025 = 1.

Right so if you damage someone for 400 then it only fills up the bar by 1 theoretically

1 is 100% in that case. Dude you make that really hard for me. :P

A few things to test in next BWE:
Regeneration
Signet of the Wild
Natural Healing trait in BM line
Lifesteal runes/sigils/food
Lifesteal with a necro
Health regen food/runes
Water Spirit
Troll Unguent
Healing coming from the pet (Moa, Fern Hound, etc…)
And things I’m probably forgetting

Depending on what works, there is potentital for the gauge to fill very fast.
Troll Unguent (10 ticks on you + pet)+ Live Vicariously (10 ticks on you) might be 75% refill….

Also see if the fernhound’s skill Regenerate (the F2) counts toward the refill.

Bran.7425:

Also see if the fernhound’s skill Regenerate (the F2) counts toward the refill.

And the Moa healing shouts.

Levetty.1279:

This is made doubly funny as Staff and celestial form basically serve the same function (spamming out heals) so taking both compunds the lack of diversity in what Druid can offer.

thats also my concern…would have preferred if there was a bit more variety away from healing on the weapon skills…

cafard.8953:

Bran.7425:

Also see if the fernhound’s skill Regenerate (the F2) counts toward the refill.

And the Moa healing shouts.

Overall, anything coming from the pet (there’s also heal on F2 with trait)

I’m just gonna change one of the specializations from my Dire trapper into druid line, and then change dire trinkets into apothecary. Sword/Torch + Axe/Dagger and relay on celestial form for healing .