Guild Wars 2

of none…

Thats how i see rangers… whatever i base my opinion on… weapon based or role based…

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

the above description, to me, seems that we supposed to be a great ranged class… (unparalelled=best actually but oh well)…

so after having leveled every class to 80 and have had meaningful time with each of them in WvW i come to the conclusion that rangers are hopeless… and definitely not going in the direction of above description… more and more we are forced to be melee heavy to be half-effective…

role based…

dps… get well anything BUT a ranger… and a healy guardian…
heal… get a guardian…
condition damage… get a necro… mesmer… engineer…
tank… get serious!!! (yeah bunker build right? sigh)
burst… get thief… warrior…
ranged… get a warrior for longbow… and i wish i had the thieves shortbow…

weapon based…
sword… warrior and thieves do it better
dagger… what???
longbow… warrior does it better
shortbow… thief does it lot better
greatsword… warrior guardian and hell even mesmer do it better…
axes… umm warrior rules…
warhorn… chuckles
torch… well this one is actually good on rangers… so we may actually use it…

all in all whatever we do the next guy with another class does it better… there is NOT ONE thing i can say “hey i can do this better on my ranger” except being a lootbag…

before you flame on i AM speaking on WvW basis… and for you who thinks this post has no constructive criticism here you go…

Dear A-net… in your Ranger Profession page, besides you have false description of the class, you have traps icon in the spirits explanation section and spirits icon for traps section… THAT IS how much attention you pay to us rangers…

Regards…
grumpy is out

Aye I rarely take my Ranger to WvW as atm it’s just not worth it. I’ve got a d/d ele and a condition-tank mesmer using Samksi’s confusion stacking build that both offer so much more and perform so much better that it’s really not worth it unless I feel like really challenging myself.

It did get some playtime when guard was bugged and I could wreak havok with my cats on the walls, killing defenders and taking out siege, but those days are gone now.

Seyyah.6135:

…..

Dear A-net… in your Ranger Profession page, besides you have false description of the class, you have traps icon in the spirits explanation section and spirits icon for traps section… THAT IS how much attention you pay to us rangers…

…….

LOL never noticed that!

Shame ……..

awe extender.1908:

Seyyah.6135:

…..

Dear A-net… in your Ranger Profession page, besides you have false description of the class, you have traps icon in the spirits explanation section and spirits icon for traps section… THAT IS how much attention you pay to us rangers…

…….

LOL never noticed that!

Shame ……..

hehe… graphics designer… comes with the job…

What do you consider “meaningful time” spent playing a profession?

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

its not rocket science Chopps… for some professions, based on the role you play… lets assume i want to be a healy guardian… its is quite easy to set up your gear and traits… you are set to go… you learn how to play and, your pros and cons and develop a play style for that…

on the other hand for other professions, lets say thief or elementalist or warrior, assuming i want to go dps… since there are various options… it may take a while until you find your sweet spot and feel you are bringing something on the table…

among all the classes i played i ve spent the most time on my ranger… as its being my main… i think i have every single set of armor type (within the logical measures… i dont have givers set for example… or full cleric set) all sets of weapons exotic as in the armor dept, and all sorts of jewelery including a few ascended pieces… been playing since betas… so i can honestly say i have tried almost every possible logical build out there…

i ve tried to experiment ins and outs of every build even tho some felt really odd to my playstyle… without prejudices… and i must say i am not a great player but i know my way around…

the problem is with effort i put in the ranger to be viable, when i put the same effort in ANY of my other classes i am actually good if not great… (thats whats been told to me by my guildmates when they ask me to bring in my warrior/guardian/necro etc… to the WvW area… never my ranger)

so the conclusion is either i miraculously am above average in every other class but i simply cant get the hang of the ranger and i suck in that… or there is something wrong with the class… i suspect the latter…

so as a resume answer to your question… some prof requires lots of time to get the hang of it… like ranger… mesmer etc… some requires less based on your style of play… such as a heal or boon guardian… that is a “meaningful time” i spent

I never said anything about rocket science. I just asked a simple question and somehow got a mile long response. I’m not reading that, dude. I have no opinion on the matter. You said “meaningful time” and I wanted a definition. So sue me.

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

Chopps.5047:

I never said anything about rocket science. I just asked a simple question and somehow got a mile long response. I’m not reading that, dude. I have no opinion on the matter. You said “meaningful time” and I wanted a definition. So sue me.

i did not mean to be rude or offend you…

here… fixed it for you…

“so as a resume answer to your question… some prof requires lots of time to get the hang of it… like ranger… mesmer etc… some requires less based on your style of play… such as a heal or boon guardian… that is a “meaningful time” i spent”

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

So are you comparing yourself against other archers or are you comparing yourself against a fencer who knows how to use a hunting bow?

Unparraleld archer. I dont see any other archers in the game. Comparing it to theif and warrior. I think ranger wins on this one easily.

Sigh…. i refuse to accept this … i like my ranger !!!! They are not underpowered , everyone else is overpowered!!!!!

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

So are you comparing yourself against other archers or are you comparing yourself against a fencer who knows how to use a hunting bow?

Unparraleld archer. I dont see any other archers in the game. Comparing it to theif and warrior. I think ranger wins on this one easily.

Well that is not the case… and if a fencer who happens to use a hunting bow, can be a lot more effective than “the unparallel archer” i actually suspect the definition of the archer…

you may find the bow / play with a bow more effective than me playing my thief… thats good… but after having played all 3 professions with a bow that is not my experience…

Chokolata.1870:

Sigh…. i refuse to accept this … i like my ranger !!!! They are not underpowered , everyone else is overpowered!!!!!

I dont think anyone is saying that. But you do have a point.

Warrior. Simplest class in the game. No skill
Theif. Broken class that is OP. No skill
Mesmer. Really well designed class (mechanics wise) and requires skill to be good.
Guardian. Almost on par with how simple it is to play and build. No skill
Havent even played an ele yet so cant comment.

Engineers. Have more to cry about then anyone.

Rangers is an advanced class to play. The pet mechanic requires pet management to be effective. No other class has to play 2 characters at the same time. Summons arent the same as they require no management and are on fixed CD with is usually shorter than 60 secs too.

Looking at the Ranger as a whole. It is difficult to plsy by design.

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

So are you comparing yourself against other archers or are you comparing yourself against a fencer who knows how to use a hunting bow?

Unparraleld archer. I dont see any other archers in the game. Comparing it to theif and warrior. I think ranger wins on this one easily.

Well that is not the case… and if a fencer who happens to use a hunting bow, can be a lot more effective than “the unparallel archer” i actually suspect the definition of the archer…

you may find the bow / play with a bow more effective than me playing my thief… thats good… but after having played all 3 professions with a bow that is not my experience…

The theif sbow falls into a niche roll. I dont think there is any thief out there who only uses it without swapping. Ive seen very few a few months ago but they really werent that good. A warrior who only uses Lbow is just as bad. They have those ranged options but the class was nit designed for it.

Rangers can use lbow/sbow for all ranged situations. In this respect they are unmatched.

Yeah, unparalleled means that the other classes that use a bow can’t use it as well as the ranger. I can’t say anything about the short bow since I barely use it but the long bow needs a tweak.

Long Range Shot does more damage the farther the enemy is away. Yet Barrage, with the longest CD, is the only cripple.

I’ve been thinking about the warrior’s skill set with it and been playing with the sun spirit. What the long bow needs is for the cripple to be removed from Barrage and given to long range shot. It’s far too easy to close the distance on a ranger with a long bow. Give barrage burning instead.

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

So are you comparing yourself against other archers or are you comparing yourself against a fencer who knows how to use a hunting bow?

Unparraleld archer. I dont see any other archers in the game. Comparing it to theif and warrior. I think ranger wins on this one easily.

Well that is not the case… and if a fencer who happens to use a hunting bow, can be a lot more effective than “the unparallel archer” i actually suspect the definition of the archer…

you may find the bow / play with a bow more effective than me playing my thief… thats good… but after having played all 3 professions with a bow that is not my experience…

The theif sbow falls into a niche roll. I dont think there is any thief out there who only uses it without swapping. Ive seen very few a few months ago but they really werent that good. A warrior who only uses Lbow is just as bad. They have those ranged options but the class was nit designed for it.

Rangers can use lbow/sbow for all ranged situations. In this respect they are unmatched.

i must remind you that in my original post i made clear that i am basing my opinion on WvW environment… thief shortbow has much more effectiveness than ours and warrior longbow is superior to ours in there in my experience…

and in there i am a much more effective ranged class either with my warrior rifle/longbow setup or my thief on shortbow/double pistols setup if i want to…

as a ranger being able to wield longbow / shortbow at the same time does not mean you re a more accomplished ranged class than the others…

Take out reliance on pet. Problem solved imo.

indeed… but even with the best of micromanagement i do not rely on my pet anyways… as it dies in seconds in WvW…

make pet hit always unless dodged or the pet gets crippled . Reduce the timer on swap when a pet dies .

pets fixed

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Seyyah.6135:

KensaiZen.3740:

Unparralelled archers… any other class can use 2 types of bows?

I think the description is too vague and leaves too much for peoples expectations and assumptions.

i happen to be a national archer meself… (hence the interest in the archer type rangers/classes)… now i am competeing in the compound bows….

i can also shoot olympic recurves or traditional wooden longbows….

being able to use all these does not make me an “unparralel archer”… looking at my scores when i shoot with each of them can easily tell you that… that makes me compound bow competitionist… who also shoots other types of bows as a hobby!

i dont see an assumption there… but again my friend that is just me…

So are you comparing yourself against other archers or are you comparing yourself against a fencer who knows how to use a hunting bow?

Unparraleld archer. I dont see any other archers in the game. Comparing it to theif and warrior. I think ranger wins on this one easily.

Well that is not the case… and if a fencer who happens to use a hunting bow, can be a lot more effective than “the unparallel archer” i actually suspect the definition of the archer…

you may find the bow / play with a bow more effective than me playing my thief… thats good… but after having played all 3 professions with a bow that is not my experience…

The theif sbow falls into a niche roll. I dont think there is any thief out there who only uses it without swapping. Ive seen very few a few months ago but they really werent that good. A warrior who only uses Lbow is just as bad. They have those ranged options but the class was nit designed for it.

Rangers can use lbow/sbow for all ranged situations. In this respect they are unmatched.

i must remind you that in my original post i made clear that i am basing my opinion on WvW environment… thief shortbow has much more effectiveness than ours and warrior longbow is superior to ours in there in my experience…

and in there i am a much more effective ranged class either with my warrior rifle/longbow setup or my thief on shortbow/double pistols setup if i want to…

as a ranger being able to wield longbow / shortbow at the same time does not mean you re a more accomplished ranged class than the others…

I understand what you are saying but the context is “archer” not ranged. The thief sbiw is limited and so is warrior lbow. Ranger is the only class to utilise 2 bows to fill the “archer” role at ling and mid/close range.

Well said OP. I’m glad more players like you are seeing the light of their deceptive tactics.

Ranger are what they are the dont need to be #1 or #2 we are well rounded. Rangers are the universal soldier. Rangers are the USMC of Guildwars. 2. While we are not the best we are a viable choice.

Just the as the Army can dish-out the pain on land you wouldn’t take them for a sea battle. So its the same with warrior they may have dps but you dont take them if you need a healer or a necro or even a mesmer. Rangers may not be your first choice but they are not useless.

If you go down the list rangers may not be your first choice but they are viable while the other classes my be the top gun in one or two catagories they are not even contendors in others.

While rangers do have issues in wvw I beleive part of it is how we play them. Some ranger who melee dont have the issue with pets dieing as much.

We know that with melee there are risk so the damage is a big higher we try to play it safe and lose 40% of our damage of the bat. Warriors and thiefs can melee so can you.
Get in there and double kd your target torch his kitten and go to work on him.

If your going to kitten back a try to pick off people then you pet should be with you the zerg is your meatshild you dont need your pet to tank. So what we really need is a pet with 1200 or a trait that could give our pets more range.

Sorry of topic again.

In rl the Marines have the smallest buget they get crappys gear. But when it comes down to it most people have a great deal of faith in a marines combat prowess.

If I had to take one class anywhere it would Rangers. It may not be a pretty run but on average rangers will get it done while the other classes might just flat out fail.

They way some of you view things there shouldn’t be USMC’s. Becuase they aren’t the very best at one thing. But the some of its parts is what makes USMC the kitten as it is with the Ranger.

That reminds me Serra, I kinda picture Rangers as masters of guerilla warfare…which makes me want us to have a single stealth skill we could use.

I’ve been using my ranger in WvW over my warrior, so let me give you my perspective on these two classes as they are more often compared.

Sure, warrior has more burst than a ranger. But a warriors burst is not guaranteed and is inconsistent at best and requires us to be in danger for the most part. A number 3 on the rifle will almost never land all shots on a competent player, they will dodge after the second shot. Hundred Blades from a greatsword, uhhh yeah, try going into a crowd of 10 people, rooting yourself and hoping to hit more than one person for more than one hit. Killshot is nice if you spec into full zerker, but it too is quite inconsistent, it can easily be evaded, blocked or someone could move out of range. The auto-attack from rifle sucks too.

The longbow is nice for a warrior, but our #2 and #4 is quite inconsistent, it pretty much requires melee range. Practical for mostly sieging, the F1 and #3 is very slow.

The ranger I find, despite not having quite as much burst has way more consistent DPS than a warrior does. The auto-attack on a short-bow is pretty nice, very fast and has some nice utility skills on it. The longbow is an excellent weapon too, especially the #2 and the #5 and does nice damage overall.

You guys get a 50% endurance regeneration with relatively little investment, I need to use a utility slot on my warrior to get 33% Endurance Regen. You guys have access to protection and Bark Skin which is pretty much a protection at 25% health. Warriors have zero protection. Rangers can be pretty tanky, they have one of the better utility heals, they have many evades on their weapons. A bunker ranger in sPvP is currently more viable than a bunker warrior. A rangers version of Endure Pain (protect me) is 6 seconds every 60 seconds, and 48 if you spec into the shout mastery. A warriors endure pain is 4 seconds every 90 seconds. Rangers have great access to vigor and regeneration and have better and more accessible condition removal. A ranger simply has better survival mechanisms than a warrior, and this is mostly for being a class that sits at the back shootin kitten in WvW.

Don’t even get me started on muddy terrain, an AoE immobilize and cripple every 30 seconds, or even less if traited? It lasts on the ground for 20 seconds? While alot of classes will have single target cripples and immobilizes with the same cooldown, yes please!

I actually very much have enjoyed the ranger for the limited time I have used it in WvW and do not think they suck at all. I think the sword is pretty awesome to mix it up a little bit once in a while and the torch is cool too.

Think about it this way . Some classes will be nerfed , ranger longbow and spirits will be buffed most likely . If you enjoy the class , play it .

killahmayne.9518:

I’ve been using my ranger in WvW over my warrior, so let me give you my perspective on these two classes as they are more often compared.

Sure, warrior has more burst than a ranger. But a warriors burst is not guaranteed and is inconsistent at best and requires us to be in danger for the most part. A number 3 on the rifle will almost never land all shots on a competent player, they will dodge after the second shot. Hundred Blades from a greatsword, uhhh yeah, try going into a crowd of 10 people, rooting yourself and hoping to hit more than one person for more than one hit. Killshot is nice if you spec into full zerker, but it too is quite inconsistent, it can easily be evaded, blocked or someone could move out of range. The auto-attack from rifle sucks too.

The longbow is nice for a warrior, but our #2 and #4 is quite inconsistent, it pretty much requires melee range. Practical for mostly sieging, the F1 and #3 is very slow.

The ranger I find, despite not having quite as much burst has way more consistent DPS than a warrior does. The auto-attack on a short-bow is pretty nice, very fast and has some nice utility skills on it. The longbow is an excellent weapon too, especially the #2 and the #5 and does nice damage overall.

You guys get a 50% endurance regeneration with relatively little investment, I need to use a utility slot on my warrior to get 33% Endurance Regen. You guys have access to protection and Bark Skin which is pretty much a protection at 25% health. Warriors have zero protection. Rangers can be pretty tanky, they have one of the better utility heals, they have many evades on their weapons. A bunker ranger in sPvP is currently more viable than a bunker warrior. A rangers version of Endure Pain (protect me) is 6 seconds every 60 seconds, and 48 if you spec into the shout mastery. A warriors endure pain is 4 seconds every 90 seconds. Rangers have great access to vigor and regeneration and have better and more accessible condition removal. A ranger simply has better survival mechanisms than a warrior, and this is mostly for being a class that sits at the back shootin kitten in WvW.

Don’t even get me started on muddy terrain, an AoE immobilize and cripple every 30 seconds, or even less if traited? It lasts on the ground for 20 seconds? While alot of classes will have single target cripples and immobilizes with the same cooldown, yes please!

I actually very much have enjoyed the ranger for the limited time I have used it in WvW and do not think they suck at all. I think the sword is pretty awesome to mix it up a little bit once in a while and the torch is cool too.

i am happy that you enjoy ranger over a warrior my friend but by your description of the warrior you are doing alot of things wrong in that department…

and saying a bunker ranger is more survivable than a bunker warrior is a tad bit overkill… i have them both and while bunker ranger can output more damage in a given time, i, as a warrior can outlast anything and more while tossing out heals for allies if i want to….

it seems to me you are comparing as dps a trap ranger with a bunker warrior and then as survivability a bunker ranger with a zerker warrior…

all in all, i meant no offense by any means and i honestly am glad you find rangers more effective than warriors.

Well I pvp, and spend 100% of my time doing it, and 99% of the time on my ranger. I would have to say that in that context, rangers are balanced decently, but NOT against other classes.

What I mean is, rangers, just by having 2+ meta viable specs, already have it better than quite of a few of the other classes who, because one of their options is so strong and/or the others are so weak, rangers already “feel” better because we have the option of changing our playstyle up.

Balanced across the game? no. But devs are aware (doesn’t mean they are doing anything but still) of the power of some of the builds and options other classes have, which creates an apex predator problem.

There has been a large discussion going on about how the devs will be splitting skills PvE/PvP, so we can only hope that when skills are being examined under a microscope (more so than in the past anyhow), things are reworked at that point.

At least now they have said that they will balance PvE and WvW separately, so maybe we will have workable WvW pets eventually…

I feel OP in PvE (except some dungeons), but I retired my ranger in WvW when the guard was nerfed.

What I don’t get, is if ranger is a Jack of all trades. Why doesn’t it get access to all of the games mechanics, albeit at a decreased level of effectiveness? Aegis, stealth, all the weapons, confusion (can be achieved with a pet) portals /shrug.

In what world are you guys playing in? Certainly not Tyria. Rangers are amazing solo point holders and duelist and do massive condition damage while still being very hardy. Beastmaster rangers are near unbeatable 1v1 and full trap/regen rangers do substantial AoE damage in team fights while applying many useful conditions like immobilize and poison and useful boons like vigor and regen.

TheWalkingDead.7298:

In what world are you guys playing in? Certainly not Tyria. Rangers are amazing solo point holders and duelist and do massive condition damage while still being very hardy. Beastmaster rangers are near unbeatable 1v1 and full trap/regen rangers do substantial AoE damage in team fights while applying many useful conditions like immobilize and poison and useful boons like vigor and regen.

He’s talking about WvW, though. I think many would concur that Rangers are in a good place in sPvP.

achensherd.2735:

TheWalkingDead.7298:

In what world are you guys playing in? Certainly not Tyria. Rangers are amazing solo point holders and duelist and do massive condition damage while still being very hardy. Beastmaster rangers are near unbeatable 1v1 and full trap/regen rangers do substantial AoE damage in team fights while applying many useful conditions like immobilize and poison and useful boons like vigor and regen.

He’s talking about WvW, though. I think many would concur that Rangers are in a good place in sPvP.

And by good place he means traps/condi bunker. Longbow rangers suck in spvp,as do most of the ranger power variants and greatsword as well.

Seyyah.6135:

of none…

Thats how i see rangers… whatever i base my opinion on… weapon based or role based…

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

the above description, to me, seems that we supposed to be a great ranged class… (unparalelled=best actually but oh well)…

so after having leveled every class to 80 and have had meaningful time with each of them in WvW i come to the conclusion that rangers are hopeless… and definitely not going in the direction of above description… more and more we are forced to be melee heavy to be half-effective…

role based…

dps… get well anything BUT a ranger… and a healy guardian…
heal… get a guardian…
condition damage… get a necro… mesmer… engineer…
tank… get serious!!! (yeah bunker build right? sigh)
burst… get thief… warrior…
ranged… get a warrior for longbow… and i wish i had the thieves shortbow…

weapon based…
sword… warrior and thieves do it better
dagger… what???
longbow… warrior does it better
shortbow… thief does it lot better
greatsword… warrior guardian and hell even mesmer do it better…
axes… umm warrior rules…
warhorn… chuckles
torch… well this one is actually good on rangers… so we may actually use it…

all in all whatever we do the next guy with another class does it better… there is NOT ONE thing i can say “hey i can do this better on my ranger” except being a lootbag…

before you flame on i AM speaking on WvW basis… and for you who thinks this post has no constructive criticism here you go…

Dear A-net… in your Ranger Profession page, besides you have false description of the class, you have traps icon in the spirits explanation section and spirits icon for traps section… THAT IS how much attention you pay to us rangers…

Regards…
grumpy is out

Are you seriously trying to compare the warrior’s horrible longbow to the diamond that is our shortbow? I’m sorry, but ranged we still deal the best sustained DPS around. Thieves shortbow is horrible, only works for mobility.

Our sword is better than the warrior’s and the thieves, our dagger has a very nice evade, but the 5th skill projectile is slow and always fails. Our longbow is horrible. Never liked our greatsword. Axes are situationally good. Our warhorn is awesome, except for number 4. Our torch is great.

We’re very good in condition damage, able to deal long lasting burning with traps, our spikes aren’t that great but neither is anyone’s with the quickness nerf. Have you seen a healing regen ranger? It’s just wow, so impossible to kill.

We never were supposed to excel in anything. We’re supposed to be good at everything, not very good in one thing. Elementalists however, stole our role. Now they do everything very well.

achensherd.2735:

TheWalkingDead.7298:

In what world are you guys playing in? Certainly not Tyria. Rangers are amazing solo point holders and duelist and do massive condition damage while still being very hardy. Beastmaster rangers are near unbeatable 1v1 and full trap/regen rangers do substantial AoE damage in team fights while applying many useful conditions like immobilize and poison and useful boons like vigor and regen.

He’s talking about WvW, though. I think many would concur that Rangers are in a good place in sPvP.

That’s because they’ve nerfed the other classes so much in sPvP, the Ranger can finally compete with the other classes.

AlexRD.7914:

Are you seriously trying to compare the warrior’s horrible longbow to the diamond that is our shortbow? I’m sorry, but ranged we still deal the best sustained DPS around. Thieves shortbow is horrible, only works for mobility.

O.O

Non-Glass Canon my cluster bomb hits for 7k-9k crits to one person, and get this, it is an AoE. I’ve killed people with four Cluster Bombs, which by the way can be hasted. The #4 Choking Gas might not sound that good by itself (even though it reduces healing), but couple it with Caltrops, and you’re talking some amazing stuff.

AlexRD.7914:

Our sword is better than the warrior’s and the thieves,

How do you figure? I can place #2 on the ground, and teleport back to it from an infinite distance, so long as I do it within its duration. On top of that there is no better weapon set in the game, than a Thieves Sword/Dagger combo. There just isn’t. The problem is, most Thieves do not take advantage of the Tactical Strike, but increasing the daze duration.

AlexRD.7914:

our dagger has a very nice evade, but the 5th skill projectile is slow and always fails.

The Rangers; “Stalking Strike” is nice, but coupled with the Thieves mobility above with their sword, when I equip my dagger in offhand, I get an evade multiple times, while you have to wait 10 seconds. I can easily evade twice as much with my dagger attack, while having the potential to trait correctly, and evade three times as much with my dagger attack.

AlexRD.7914:

We’re very good in condition damage, able to deal long lasting burning with traps, our spikes aren’t that great but neither is anyone’s with the quickness nerf. Have you seen a healing regen ranger? It’s just wow, so impossible to kill.

Agreed, the Ranger has a great amount of condition damage. This issue though that all classes face with conditions, is that they do not synergize well with any other class, including two Rangers themselves. With Poison, and Burning not stacking for damage, and Bleeds maxing out at 25 stacks along with Vulnerability, condition damage isn’t enough for group on group play.

AlexRD.7914:

We never were supposed to excel in anything. We’re supposed to be good at everything, not very good in one thing. Elementalists however, stole our role. Now they do everything very well.

The Elementalist will always be the jack of all trades that excels in many areas because they have access to a lot of possibilities, many of which work better than other classes. We have yet to see an invulnerability build yet.

KensaiZen.3740:

Chokolata.1870:

Sigh…. i refuse to accept this … i like my ranger !!!! They are not underpowered , everyone else is overpowered!!!!!

I dont think anyone is saying that. But you do have a point.

Warrior. Simplest class in the game. No skill
Theif. Broken class that is OP. No skill
Mesmer. Really well designed class (mechanics wise) and requires skill to be good.
Guardian. Almost on par with how simple it is to play and build. No skill
Havent even played an ele yet so cant comment.

Engineers. Have more to cry about then anyone.

Rangers is an advanced class to play. The pet mechanic requires pet management to be effective. No other class has to play 2 characters at the same time. Summons arent the same as they require no management and are on fixed CD with is usually shorter than 60 secs too.

Looking at the Ranger as a whole. It is difficult to plsy by design.

Ele: if you have ADHD it’s the easiest prof to play, especially coming from a ranger where you go from managing 2 positions to 1 messily position.

I recently rerolled my ele (RP reason and a friend wants me to play an ele with their necro) and it may be -the- easiest, yet still very entertaining (unlike -you- warrior!) that I’ve played in GW2…

Gotta say, ele totally stole our spotlight as the “jack of all trades, and master of them too!” Role we were originally said to fill… I have no idea where ranger goes now…

PS: I have 3 pets that have a better AI than my ranger pets and can fulfill roles easier than ranger pets…. Wtf ANET?

@JK I agree with everything you posted other than the ele thing, eles were ORIGINALLY supposed to have 4 very different ways of killing things, 1) AoE (fire) 2) single target burst + minor CC + good movement(air) 3) very control oriented sustain + minor support (water) 4) very defensive condi damage sustain + minor control (earth).

Their alpha was so much more different than it is now, it’s like night and day… They went from “pure damage” an then sed utilities for support/control to having a little of everything + utilities to help them specialize.

jkctmc.8754:

AlexRD.7914:

Are you seriously trying to compare the warrior’s horrible longbow to the diamond that is our shortbow? I’m sorry, but ranged we still deal the best sustained DPS around. Thieves shortbow is horrible, only works for mobility.

O.O

Non-Glass Canon my cluster bomb hits for 7k-9k crits to one person, and get this, it is an AoE. I’ve killed people with four Cluster Bombs, which by the way can be hasted. The #4 Choking Gas might not sound that good by itself (even though it reduces healing), but couple it with Caltrops, and you’re talking some amazing stuff.

AlexRD.7914:

Our sword is better than the warrior’s and the thieves,

How do you figure? I can place #2 on the ground, and teleport back to it from an infinite distance, so long as I do it within its duration. On top of that there is no better weapon set in the game, than a Thieves Sword/Dagger combo. There just isn’t. The problem is, most Thieves do not take advantage of the Tactical Strike, but increasing the daze duration.

AlexRD.7914:

our dagger has a very nice evade, but the 5th skill projectile is slow and always fails.

The Rangers; “Stalking Strike” is nice, but coupled with the Thieves mobility above with their sword, when I equip my dagger in offhand, I get an evade multiple times, while you have to wait 10 seconds. I can easily evade twice as much with my dagger attack, while having the potential to trait correctly, and evade three times as much with my dagger attack.

AlexRD.7914:

We’re very good in condition damage, able to deal long lasting burning with traps, our spikes aren’t that great but neither is anyone’s with the quickness nerf. Have you seen a healing regen ranger? It’s just wow, so impossible to kill.

Agreed, the Ranger has a great amount of condition damage. This issue though that all classes face with conditions, is that they do not synergize well with any other class, including two Rangers themselves. With Poison, and Burning not stacking for damage, and Bleeds maxing out at 25 stacks along with Vulnerability, condition damage isn’t enough for group on group play.

AlexRD.7914:

We never were supposed to excel in anything. We’re supposed to be good at everything, not very good in one thing. Elementalists however, stole our role. Now they do everything very well.

The Elementalist will always be the jack of all trades that excels in many areas because they have access to a lot of possibilities, many of which work better than other classes. We have yet to see an invulnerability build yet.

precisely…

AlexRD.7914:

Seyyah.6135:

of none…

Thats how i see rangers… whatever i base my opinion on… weapon based or role based…

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

the above description, to me, seems that we supposed to be a great ranged class… (unparalelled=best actually but oh well)…

so after having leveled every class to 80 and have had meaningful time with each of them in WvW i come to the conclusion that rangers are hopeless… and definitely not going in the direction of above description… more and more we are forced to be melee heavy to be half-effective…

role based…

dps… get well anything BUT a ranger… and a healy guardian…
heal… get a guardian…
condition damage… get a necro… mesmer… engineer…
tank… get serious!!! (yeah bunker build right? sigh)
burst… get thief… warrior…
ranged… get a warrior for longbow… and i wish i had the thieves shortbow…

weapon based…
sword… warrior and thieves do it better
dagger… what???
longbow… warrior does it better
shortbow… thief does it lot better
greatsword… warrior guardian and hell even mesmer do it better…
axes… umm warrior rules…
warhorn… chuckles
torch… well this one is actually good on rangers… so we may actually use it…

all in all whatever we do the next guy with another class does it better… there is NOT ONE thing i can say “hey i can do this better on my ranger” except being a lootbag…

before you flame on i AM speaking on WvW basis… and for you who thinks this post has no constructive criticism here you go…

Dear A-net… in your Ranger Profession page, besides you have false description of the class, you have traps icon in the spirits explanation section and spirits icon for traps section… THAT IS how much attention you pay to us rangers…

Regards…
grumpy is out

Are you seriously trying to compare the warrior’s horrible longbow to the diamond that is our shortbow? I’m sorry, but ranged we still deal the best sustained DPS around. Thieves shortbow is horrible, only works for mobility.

Our sword is better than the warrior’s and the thieves, our dagger has a very nice evade, but the 5th skill projectile is slow and always fails. Our longbow is horrible. Never liked our greatsword. Axes are situationally good. Our warhorn is awesome, except for number 4. Our torch is great.

We’re very good in condition damage, able to deal long lasting burning with traps, our spikes aren’t that great but neither is anyone’s with the quickness nerf. Have you seen a healing regen ranger? It’s just wow, so impossible to kill.

We never were supposed to excel in anything. We’re supposed to be good at everything, not very good in one thing. Elementalists however, stole our role. Now they do everything very well.

btw… no offense intended but where did you get the idea of me comparing our shortbow to a warrior longbow? i am sure i havent…

and please keep in mind that i am speaking WvW centric… not 1v1… nor spvp… nor tpvp… so condition build is only situationaly viable in there… as if, its ok if you roam and pick up small skirmishes (which is basically somewhat of a sPvP in my books) but its below average if you are a member of a large group…

thanks

Great post OP, best explanation i’ve seen of the Ranger in a long time..totally agree, and yeah i think Anet totally ignores the class as well just looking at those descriptions..

Fomby.4295:

What I don’t get, is if ranger is a Jack of all trades. Why doesn’t it get access to all of the games mechanics, albeit at a decreased level of effectiveness? Aegis, stealth, all the weapons, confusion (can be achieved with a pet) portals /shrug.

One of the builds I run often is a Siamoth/Warthog Greatsword/Sword/Axe build. These pets are not commonly seen and take some getting used to.

Among other things, it gives me access to Aegis, Retaliation, Blind, Stealth, Poison Field, Confusion, and Chaos Armor… I just don’t know what I’m going to have available next, and I have to react accordingly.

I had enemies in WvW invite me into their group once to accuse me of teleporting when all I did was Stealthswoop.

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m having a fantastic time with longbow on my ranger in wvw.

I lost count of how many kills I’ve gotten from enemies running back to their friendlies thinking they’ve gotten away or at least will get a res even if they get downed only to get killed by my rapid fire and barrage from 1500 or more away. No warrior can do that with their longbow; at least not in perfect safety in a group vs group fight. Even if I can’t get close, most players ignore pets so my jaguar simply prances along and finishes them off. If it does get targetted f2 gets the job done.

If they’re running away, I’m in constant max-damage state thanks to the distance between us and hit for 1~2k depending on crits even with just autoattack. And I’m not even wearing berserker gear. What’s more, most retreating players blow their dodges meant to be used for avoiding strong attacks in panic and eat the full damage of rapid fire. Predator’s instinct trait also works well for these situations.

Fighting in the front tanking and dealing heavy damage is very important in your team, but so is actually eliminating enemies from the field. I constantly see my allies get enemies downed or near-death only to fall back because they get focused and couldn’t finish them off (especially enemies capable of falling back or those that take a few seconds to stomp such as eles using mist form, stealthing thieves, mesmers…etc) so the enemy gets back up in a few seconds to join the fight.

If rangers are meant to be hunters who “prey on weaknesses of the herd”; bleeding out enemy numbers slowly but surely, instead of getting in the thick of it as a soldier, the longbow fills in that role very nicely, no matter the size of either group.

Besides, it’s not like you can’t contribute to your group with your utilities. If my group is retreating I usually run back to the tail and let loose a barrage to slow attackers so any stragglers can get to safety, along with muddy terrain and sometimes a frost trap.

It’s less effective in 1v1 situations, sure, but it does have its uses such as rapid fire homing towards stealthed targets, point blank shot is pretty much a stun+knockback, barrage for preventing retreat(very nice combo with point blank shot if aimed correctly), and of course we have gs, sword and the fantastic shortbow for duelling in close range.

Seyyah.6135:

killahmayne.9518:

i am happy that you enjoy ranger over a warrior my friend but by your description of the warrior you are doing alot of things wrong in that department…

and saying a bunker ranger is more survivable than a bunker warrior is a tad bit overkill… i have them both and while bunker ranger can output more damage in a given time, i, as a warrior can outlast anything and more while tossing out heals for allies if i want to….

it seems to me you are comparing as dps a trap ranger with a bunker warrior and then as survivability a bunker ranger with a zerker warrior…

all in all, i meant no offense by any means and i honestly am glad you find rangers more effective than warriors.

I have played close to 850 hours on my Warrior, testing many builds, weapons with many types at least 7 different types of gear configurations, sPvP as well. So I think I know what I am doing and what I say. When i say bunker ranger vs bunker warrior, I say sPvP wise, a bunker ranger is more survivable and effective than a bunker warrior. And really it isn’t that hard to see why. A bunker warrior in sPvP is pretty terrible.

Rangers can inflict more conditions, have better endurance regeneration, more evades depending on the weapon you go, way better access to protection, easier access to sustain in terms of regeneration, healing (unless if it is a shout build for warrior which isn’t really a bunker build at all, it is more support), easier access to condition removal, the Bark Skin trait, a pet which can be very effective in point holding situations, protect me which is 6 seconds every 48-60 seconds vs endure pain which is 4 seconds every 90. Just because a warrior has high base stats doesn’t make them necessarily the most survivable and the most tanky, D/D eles defy that misconception that it does highly.

A ranger in almost any given situation have more reliable/consistent DPS which won’t boggle your mind, but overall it gets the job done efficiently. Where as with a Warrior, they can achieve high DPS and higher bursts than a ranger, but it isn’t as reliable and guaranteed as a Ranger’s is and often involves taking the brunt of conditions and burst damage. I am talking from a prototypical aspect, where most warriors opt for a Greatsword/x+Shield combo where a ranger opts for a Shortbow/X combo.

killahmayne.9518:

Seyyah.6135:

killahmayne.9518:

i am happy that you enjoy ranger over a warrior my friend but by your description of the warrior you are doing alot of things wrong in that department…

and saying a bunker ranger is more survivable than a bunker warrior is a tad bit overkill… i have them both and while bunker ranger can output more damage in a given time, i, as a warrior can outlast anything and more while tossing out heals for allies if i want to….

it seems to me you are comparing as dps a trap ranger with a bunker warrior and then as survivability a bunker ranger with a zerker warrior…

all in all, i meant no offense by any means and i honestly am glad you find rangers more effective than warriors.

I have played close to 850 hours on my Warrior, testing many builds, weapons with many types at least 7 different types of gear configurations, sPvP as well. So I think I know what I am doing and what I say. When i say bunker ranger vs bunker warrior, I say sPvP wise, a bunker ranger is more survivable and effective than a bunker warrior. And really it isn’t that hard to see why. A bunker warrior in sPvP is pretty terrible.

Rangers can inflict more conditions, have better endurance regeneration, more evades depending on the weapon you go, way better access to protection, easier access to sustain in terms of regeneration, healing (unless if it is a shout build for warrior which isn’t really a bunker build at all, it is more support), easier access to condition removal, the Bark Skin trait, a pet which can be very effective in point holding situations, protect me which is 6 seconds every 48-60 seconds vs endure pain which is 4 seconds every 90. Just because a warrior has high base stats doesn’t make them necessarily the most survivable and the most tanky, D/D eles defy that misconception that it does highly.

A ranger in almost any given situation have more reliable/consistent DPS which won’t boggle your mind, but overall it gets the job done efficiently. Where as with a Warrior, they can achieve high DPS and higher bursts than a ranger, but it isn’t as reliable and guaranteed as a Ranger’s is and often involves taking the brunt of conditions and burst damage. I am talking from a prototypical aspect, where most warriors opt for a Greatsword/x+Shield combo where a ranger opts for a Shortbow/X combo.

i have stated various times that i was talking about WvW…

i dont want to go into details but protect me is useless in WvW as your pet is almost 80% of the fight dead even with micromanagement… on the other hand you can have your “endure pain” more reliably in every 90 secs… when my pet is almost always dead 48secs cooldown does not mean a squat…

and “especially” longbow is anything but reliable source of dps where the opponent can just strafe and evade more than half of your attacks due to the low projectile speed… quickness buff was once the solution to that but since the nerf its not as effective…

i know that a trap or a bunker ranger can be viable in sPvP… and i agree a bunker ranger is a better bunker than a warrior in sPvP… but that is not the case in WvW…

i am putting my argument on WvW basis…

You also have signet of stone which is another 6 seconds invulnerability (traited) for you and your pet. This has a very good synergy with regen skills like troll ungent. So effectively, you can run 6 seconds of invulnerability AND have a second hp bar giving you 12 seconds to go on a rampage. More then enough time to kill people.

I for one am loving my ranger. The only thing that I have found is they lack a good utility for large scale fights. But I would rather be a ranger than a thief right now. But that’s just my opinion.

Coldviper.6794:

I for one am loving my ranger. The only thing that I have found is they lack a good utility for large scale fights. But I would rather be a ranger than a thief right now. But that’s just my opinion.

It depends what you want to do in large battles. I either support the zerg with search and rescue to keep the zerg alive and at max strength. Either that or flank the zerg and harrass them from the side, make people chase me with the “Rangers are easy kills” mentality. If i can pull away 5 people from a zerg. Thats effectively reducing their strength by quite a bit for losing very little on yours.

Plenty of ways to support the zerg.

KensaiZen.3740:

Coldviper.6794:

I for one am loving my ranger. The only thing that I have found is they lack a good utility for large scale fights. But I would rather be a ranger than a thief right now. But that’s just my opinion.

It depends what you want to do in large battles. I either support the zerg with search and rescue to keep the zerg alive and at max strength. Either that or flank the zerg and harrass them from the side, make people chase me with the “Rangers are easy kills” mentality. If i can pull away 5 people from a zerg. Thats effectively reducing their strength by quite a bit for losing very little on yours.

Plenty of ways to support the zerg.

Not that I entirely disagree but truthfully anyone can do many of those things. I’m referring to utility like mass confusion from mesmers and portals, mass blinds from necros, front line cc and support from guardians and warriors, ect…

There’s really nothing like that, that rangers can bring to the table. Unless you consider their long cooldown root. Which could be better on a shorter cooldown and aoe targetable.

Coldviper.6794:

KensaiZen.3740:

Coldviper.6794:

I for one am loving my ranger. The only thing that I have found is they lack a good utility for large scale fights. But I would rather be a ranger than a thief right now. But that’s just my opinion.

It depends what you want to do in large battles. I either support the zerg with search and rescue to keep the zerg alive and at max strength. Either that or flank the zerg and harrass them from the side, make people chase me with the “Rangers are easy kills” mentality. If i can pull away 5 people from a zerg. Thats effectively reducing their strength by quite a bit for losing very little on yours.

Plenty of ways to support the zerg.

Not that I entirely disagree but truthfully anyone can do many of those things. I’m referring to utility like mass confusion from mesmers and portals, mass blinds from necros, front line cc and support from guardians and warriors, ect…

There’s really nothing like that, that rangers can bring to the table. Unless you consider their long cooldown root. Which could be better on a shorter cooldown and aoe targetable.

Combo field+barrage. Combo field+rapid fire. Be sure to have peircing arrows. Ranger is very goot at spreading conditions non stop.

KensaiZen.3740:

Coldviper.6794:

KensaiZen.3740:

Coldviper.6794:

I for one am loving my ranger. The only thing that I have found is they lack a good utility for large scale fights. But I would rather be a ranger than a thief right now. But that’s just my opinion.

It depends what you want to do in large battles. I either support the zerg with search and rescue to keep the zerg alive and at max strength. Either that or flank the zerg and harrass them from the side, make people chase me with the “Rangers are easy kills” mentality. If i can pull away 5 people from a zerg. Thats effectively reducing their strength by quite a bit for losing very little on yours.

Plenty of ways to support the zerg.

Not that I entirely disagree but truthfully anyone can do many of those things. I’m referring to utility like mass confusion from mesmers and portals, mass blinds from necros, front line cc and support from guardians and warriors, ect…

There’s really nothing like that, that rangers can bring to the table. Unless you consider their long cooldown root. Which could be better on a shorter cooldown and aoe targetable.

Combo field+barrage. Combo field+rapid fire. Be sure to have peircing arrows. Ranger is very goot at spreading conditions non stop.

All classes suffer the same issue with Conditions. Burning, and Poison do not stack for damage, and once you hit 25 stacks of bleed, and vulnerability, you can’t increase the damage of those conditions.

Therefore, if you’ve got several Wells/Marks Necromancers on the front line, who can also pop Plague Form for a lovely 7,000 or higher armor, they’ll already have players at their max for condition damage.

So most will be doing very little damage, if they’re condition built.