Guild Wars 2

GM’s will dictate which trait line we choose. Quite a few of them didn’t make the cut, while others are simply too strong. Here’s a simple list and some brief comments on GM’s that will never get picked in PVP, followed up the runner-up’s. What can we do to make these 4 horrible GM’s competitive with 3 the top ones? (top ones aren’t necessarily OP)

FLOP (will never get picked)

1. Predator’s Onslaught: Marks is a power build line. The +10% dmg to pets is virtually irrelevant given their pathing issues. but even with perfect pathing, the target often won’t have a soft cc on them. this leaves us with +10% dmg for the ranger which is a pathetic multiplier for a GM. _If ranger’s multiplier went up to 15% at least, ideally 20%, this GM could be competitive with Remorseless, and LTW on LB rangers.

2. MDG: There are so many things wrong with this GM. Firstly, the philosophy behind it is rather silly. Staying below 50% HP is basically begging to get tunnel-visioned by a thief or mes. In a meta with so much burst, this is just too risky. Secondly, and most importantly, the payoff is weaksauce. 4 seconds in pvp is an eternity. I cant imagine anyone purposely staying below half HP for longer than that. and all that risk for 4 stacks of might? please. If we keep the design of the GM, it needs to tick for 2-3 might per second for a max of X seconds. I’d like to see 3 might per second, for a max of 5-6 seconds. So when opponents see us powering up, they start sweating. Lastly, Quickdraw is just so, so good for power and condi builds, which ensures MDG and likely LOYF will never get picked.

3. Invigorating Bond: cooldown is way too high and healing amount is pathetic. with about 1200 HP, it only amounts to 2k heals every 20s. For me to pick this over Protective Ward, i’d like to heal for 4k with settler stats, so the effect should be doubled. Other solution is to give it a bit of condi cleanse to compete with EB and WK. This GM will never get picked, unless druid has some crazy new toys based around healing numbers.

4. Honed Axes: If you go into BM, BW is too good to pass up (if it’s implemented properly). I still don’t quite see a reason to equip MH axe on a non-condi build. This was a bad attempt at adding utility to axe. Casting aoe chill every 10s is not the worst thing, but in its current state, HA needs to be moved to master level. Zephyr’s Speed is also better for any power build.

SITUATIONAL (will rarely get picked)

1. Poison Master: this GM is almost unpickable due to WK being so strong. however, I can think of a situational trapper build that slots Healing Spring , maybe SoR, and maybe the brown bear for condi cleansing. Likely wouldn’t be enough, but this type of build could use Poison Master. In addition, poison is very easy for us to stack so buffing that by 20% and getting a few more free stacks wouldn’t be too bad if you can find other ways to cleanse condis. This build may be very unlikely.

2. LOYF: Poison Volley is going to be quite good, and SB in general could see some play on a trapper build. while it’s nice to have all SB CD’s lowered, I still feel Quickdraw would be better. This GM is almost unpickable due to Quickdraw being so good. But on a trapper poison-stacking build that relies a lot on SB, it could work. I think in testing SB was too strong, which is why they gutted this GM. Still, I’d like to see the +10% dmg and condi duration while moving added back to make LOYF somewhat competitive with Quickdraw.

3. Empathetic Bond: This GM takes too much heat for being in same line as WK. First of all, EB + WK + Quickdraw would give us godmode, so EB cannot be used with the other two. EB remains useful for builds relying solely on shouts and signets, builds that cannot slot any survival utilities. I think it could be fine the way it is.

UKNOWN (not enough info)

1. Nature’s Vengeance: we need to know about the range of spirit actives and what boons they give. Spirits might just be a write-off, maybe not.

TOO STRONK (relative to others in that line)

1. Wilderness Knowledge: required for most builds. Poison Master needs to be buffed to the point that someone would be willing to forego our best condi cleanses in order to do massive poison damage.

2. Quickdraw: this is arguably in the top 5 best GM’s in the game; it’s amazing for both power and condi builds, and it gives us a lot of utility. I have a bad feeling it might get nerfed, but that would be a mistake. Instead, MDG and LOYF need to be massively buffed to make people think a little.

3. Beastly Warden (maybe): if implemented well, I just cant see any other BM GM’s competing even if massively buffed.

I would change Predator’s Onslaught to make it so that it adds +33% duration to chill/cripple/immob , given that so many -33% duration traits exist and trait +condi duration is going to be gone from Marksmanship.

that’s a pretty good suggestion, unlike anything we have already.

I was pretty dissapointed by the LOYF nerf from when it was first revealed.

It’s first iteration seemed to pave the way for hybrid/power shortbow builds, which could really open up some interesting builds, and as someone that PvP’s with Zerk shortbow, I was cheering.
As it is about to be implemented, you’re exactly right that Quick Draw almost completely surpasses it.

I am actually a bit disappointed with what we’re getting on Tuesday as far as balance. With some of the cooler and more diverse GM’s nerfed into triviality before the update is pushed, all of our condition clears stacked into a single condi-oriented traitline (which will now be mandatory for any serious PvP build) and the loss of Offhand Mastery’s range increase to make Stalker’s Strike an excellent skill, it seems to me that we’re being pigeon-holed into the already meta faceroll survival build, or the low-risk high-reward Longbow life.

mistsim.2748:

GM’s will dictate which trait line we choose. Quite a few of them didn’t make the cut, while others are simply too strong. Here’s a simple list and some brief comments on GM’s that will never get picked in PVP, followed up the runner-up’s. What can we do to make these 4 horrible GM’s competitive with 3 the top ones? (top ones aren’t necessarily OP)

FLOP (will never get picked)

1. Predator’s Onslaught: Marks is a power build line. The +10% dmg to pets is virtually irrelevant given their pathing issues. but even with perfect pathing, the target often won’t have a soft cc on them. this leaves us with +10% dmg for the ranger which is a pathetic multiplier for a GM. _If ranger’s multiplier went up to 15% at least, ideally 20%, this GM could be competitive with Remorseless, and LTW on LB rangers.

2. MDG: There are so many things wrong with this GM. Firstly, the philosophy behind it is rather silly. Staying below 50% HP is basically begging to get tunnel-visioned by a thief or mes. In a meta with so much burst, this is just too risky. Secondly, and most importantly, the payoff is weaksauce. 4 seconds in pvp is an eternity. I cant imagine anyone purposely staying below half HP for longer than that. and all that risk for 4 stacks of might? please. If we keep the design of the GM, it needs to tick for 2-3 might per second for a max of X seconds. I’d like to see 3 might per second, for a max of 5-6 seconds. So when opponents see us powering up, they start sweating. Lastly, Quickdraw is just so, so good for power and condi builds, which ensures MDG and likely LOYF will never get picked.

3. Invigorating Bond: cooldown is way too high and healing amount is pathetic. with about 1200 HP, it only amounts to 2k heals every 20s. For me to pick this over Protective Ward, i’d like to heal for 4k with settler stats, so the effect should be doubled. Other solution is to give it a bit of condi cleanse to compete with EB and WK. This GM will never get picked, unless druid has some crazy new toys based around healing numbers.

4. Honed Axes: If you go into BM, BW is too good to pass up (if it’s implemented properly). I still don’t quite see a reason to equip MH axe on a non-condi build. This was a bad attempt at adding utility to axe. Casting aoe chill every 10s is not the worst thing, but in its current state, HA needs to be moved to master level. Zephyr’s Speed is also better for any power build.

SITUATIONAL (will rarely get picked)

1. Poison Master: this GM is almost unpickable due to WK being so strong. however, I can think of a situational trapper build that slots Healing Spring , maybe SoR, and maybe the brown bear for condi cleansing. Likely wouldn’t be enough, but this type of build could use Poison Master. In addition, poison is very easy for us to stack so buffing that by 20% and getting a few more free stacks wouldn’t be too bad if you can find other ways to cleanse condis. This build may be very unlikely.

2. LOYF: Poison Volley is going to be quite good, and SB in general could see some play on a trapper build. while it’s nice to have all SB CD’s lowered, I still feel Quickdraw would be better. This GM is almost unpickable due to Quickdraw being so good. But on a trapper poison-stacking build that relies a lot on SB, it could work. I think in testing SB was too strong, which is why they gutted this GM. Still, I’d like to see the +10% dmg and condi duration while moving added back to make LOYF somewhat competitive with Quickdraw.

3. Empathetic Bond: This GM takes too much heat for being in same line as WK. First of all, EB + WK + Quickdraw would give us godmode, so EB cannot be used with the other two. EB remains useful for builds relying solely on shouts and signets, builds that cannot slot any survival utilities. I think it could be fine the way it is.

UKNOWN (not enough info)

1. Nature’s Vengeance: we need to know about the range of spirit actives and what boons they give. Spirits might just be a write-off, maybe not.

TOO STRONK (relative to others in that line)

1. Wilderness Knowledge: required for most builds. Poison Master needs to be buffed to the point that someone would be willing to forego our best condi cleanses in order to do massive poison damage.

2. Quickdraw: this is arguably in the top 5 best GM’s in the game; it’s amazing for both power and condi builds, and it gives us a lot of utility. I have a bad feeling it might get nerfed, but that would be a mistake. Instead, MDG and LOYF need to be massively buffed to make people think a little.

3. Beastly Warden (maybe): if implemented well, I just cant see any other BM GM’s competing even if massively buffed.

Poison master is not “situational”, it would never be picked.
It’d be even more useless after the poison duration nerf.
Also all our cleanse are stuck in that one spot, that poison master will never ever be picked.

Predators is a PvE trait, I don’t think it will ever be useful in any PvP game mode.

Poison master is worthless now that it competes with wilderness survival as you would have very bad condition removal if you take it.

Invigorating bond is crap as it was before this patch. So sad, missed opportunity here.

I don’t see how Invigorating Bond would ever be a good trait. Unless it healed for like 4-5k base.

I would have preferred it if Bark Skin was left as it was and ported into Nature Magic, or even better, keep Wilderness Knowledge (SotF) in Nature Magic and Bark Skin in Wilderness Survival as it is right now.

Flop
1. Predator’s Onslaught: is a must for PvE. A big part of the game where pet pathing doesn’t matter.
2. MDG: Agree. Should be 8 might for 1s every 1s instead of 1 might for 8s every 1s.
3. Invigorating Bond: Agree.
4. Honed axes: Agree, it is just bad, even if you made a build around it with dual axes, ZS and BW are simply better choices.
Situational
1. PoMa: Difficult to be able to take it for PvP. Perfectly fine for PvE and condi may be better there, esp with new content.
2. LoYF: Agree, it is utterly useless right now because SB skills don’t really need a CD reduction. Only PV and CS benefit greatly and QD is far better in that regard. It could also give a passive movement buff and condi duration imo, +25% run speed, +10% condi duration and +150 condi damage while wielding a SB would be nice.
3. EB: Needs to be changed to 1 condition every 3s. You said yourself that 4s is an eternity in pvp, thus, 10s is 2.5x eternity. I believe that is infinity +1.
Too Strong
I disagree that any of these are too strong.

look in brackets, I wrote strong relative to the others in that trait line, meaning that you go down a particular line for that specific GM and never for another. I think we’ll all disagree a little bit about the situational ones, and that’s fine. but the useless ones are the main issue. no GM should be that level of useless.

You might be overvaluing Beastly Warden as the first live taunt it has that shiny new mechanic smell, but only time will tell on how good it is. Remember torment was originally presented in a similar way to the necromancers and that did really turn out the expected way(from the player point of view).

Bran.7425:

You might be overvaluing Beastly Warden as the first live taunt it has that shiny new mechanic smell, but only time will tell on how good it is. Remember torment was originally presented in a similar way to the necromancers and that did really turn out the expected way(from the player point of view).

Taunt is a control effect, as well as a condition, as such it is vastly more powerful. On a 15s CD it is fantastic. Wolf is perma for pvp/wvw just about, and that control effect is on a forty-five-sec CD, when ANY pet can have that every 15s, just wow.

as we discussed in other threads, BW will only be good if its instant cast, and not dependent on the pet actually making contact with its f2.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

2. LoYF: Agree, it is utterly useless right now because SB skills don’t really need a CD reductio.

LOYF makes the shortbow pierce aswell. I thought someone should mention it.

Just change the trait back to what it was or add movement speed to it. That would be fine.

Just on the off chance a dev ever reads this, the “TOO STRONK” line is actually “ONLY THINGS THAT ANYONE WILL USE”.

We have so few choices to make in all the lines, it’s really frustrating. I’m already leveling up my tailoring to make ascended cloth armor if I need to jump ship because of these changes. And planning on moving some ascended gear over to my newly deified engi. You know these changes are not optimal when someone who’s put up with 3 years of rangers being beaten and neglected is probably changing mains due to them.

I’m curious how the taunt will work, is it going to be an aoe in a small radius around the pet it could be situationally very good for aoe bursting (it sounds like that is how it’s meant to work for the GM) if it’s got a long range on the target in question it could be superstrong I’m imagening my spider pulling poor souls down from high cliffs to fall to their deaths xD

Manekk.6981:

…I’m imagening my spider pulling poor souls down from high cliffs to fall to their deaths xD

Imagine a spider with Refined Toxins too, since they are ranged and hardly get hit, they will proc it constantly, so 60% uptime of poison right there, without factoring in their poison skills.

Personally, the only traits I feel are just plain weak are Light on your feet, most dangerous game and invigorating bond. That’s not even comparing the skirmishing traits to quickdraw, which has defensive, offensive and utility uses. The previous LoYF was boring and probably pretty overpowered as 10% condi duration and damage if not immobilized or trying not to die to torment, but right now the big “play” part of the trait is incredibly underwhelming. Meanwhile MDG lacks the same immediate gratification as the other half health traits, though I love the idea of the trait and I’d have to play with it first to be sure. I’d certainly never take either over end of fight double swoop or double hundred blades from probably Africa.

Invigorating bond’s numbers have just always seemed bad, mostly due to the high cooldown and as a support player I find messing with spirits far more enticing. Hell, it might still see use by resounding timbre rangers thanks to guard allowing them to aim it properly, it’s certainly not out of character for them to do it anyway. It certainly doesn’t help that using it with Beastly Warden is a little awkward due to the weaker trait having the longer cooldown.

Toxsa.2701:

Poison master is not “situational”, it would never be picked.
It’d be even more useless after the poison duration nerf.
Also all our cleanse are stuck in that one spot, that poison master will never ever be picked.

Claiming poison master is a weak grandmaster trait is unbelievably shortsighted. In the current state of the game, it’s not a great PvP decision, simply because of facts external to the trait itself in a vaccuum. Poison Master is superior to the thief’s potent poison, especially in a cleanse meta. I guarantee you, even if it isn’t buffed, we’ll see druid builds utilizing poison master if druid gets condi cleanses that can be used with poison weapon skills. I’m certainly going to try and abuse it.

HotHit.6783:

Claiming poison master is a weak grandmaster trait is unbelievably shortsighted. In the current state of the game, it’s not a great PvP decision, simply because of facts external to the trait itself in a vaccuum. Poison Master is superior to the thief’s potent poison, especially in a cleanse meta. I guarantee you, even if it isn’t buffed, we’ll see druid builds utilizing poison master if druid gets condi cleanses that can be used with poison weapon skills. I’m certainly going to try and abuse it.

If there are any cleansing traits for druid, PM will be an amazing choice to have with Refined Toxins, Sharpened Edges and Hidden Barbs for hybrid Druid Staff/X builds. I’m praying to Melandru for a good cleansing trait!

Lazze.9870:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

2. LoYF: Agree, it is utterly useless right now because SB skills don’t really need a CD reductio.

LOYF makes the shortbow pierce aswell. I thought someone should mention it.

Just change the trait back to what it was or add movement speed to it. That would be fine.

Even if they added a constant 5% damage & duration while moving in addition to the on dodge stuff we will have Tuesday would be cool.

We would still have to actively proc it to get the additional +5% duration and +5% damage, but when actively using it, you reach the +10% of both the original trait had, but only for short periods after dodge rolls, and while moving.

Plenty of counterplay, (hard/soft CC and damage or condi suppression after a dodge) and also plenty of tactical ways to take advantage of it actively. (eg: dodge through a melee, about face, poison volley, keep moving through.)

It would also lend itself to the philosophy of both the Skirm line and the trait itself, what with constantly moving and out-maneuvering your adversary, employing quick attacks.

That would be a worthy GM to compete with Quick Draw, and pave the way for some inventive shortbow builds.

Only way Poison Master will compete is if druid line brings in condition manipulation as well or if the trait itself gets changed to somehow remove conditions.

Maybe add “also, whenever you apply poison, transfer 1 condi to the target. 1 second ICD” with the ICD preventing shortbow shotgunning from removing 5 condis per use lol.

I know it doesn’t functionally comply with the theme of Poison Master or how necros are the only class with transfers, but the idea itself is more to represent what type of function is needed to even make a run for that trait slot.

Predator’s Onslaught: Add a +% increase to movement impairing conditions, double the +% dmg when the enemy reach 50% health.

MDG: +5% dmg per 10% health remaining, take +5% dmg too. NO THRESHOLD.

Invigorating Bond: Current, no ICD and give 3 stack of might with a slight buff to heal(?).

Honed Axes: Increase attack speed, by 30-50%. (more might stack for pet -> more deadly pet -> perfect fit for the trait line)

Poison Master: add passive -% for damaging condi. (as someone that know how to make poison usually has developped some resistance to it and are usually good to make anti-poison).

LOYF: add evade to it, grant super speed on weapon swap(?), keep same modifier increase except that duration -> condi dmg.

Empathetic Bond: Cure 3 condis every 10 sec, every 10 sec copy 1-3 boons from your pet.

I throwed random number but the idea is there.

NOTE: I really like the idea from empathic bond because you could create some build that buff your pet and you get some boons back every 10 sec. It would fit the symbiotic link between the pet and the ranger

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Imagine a spider with Refined Toxins too, since they are ranged and hardly get hit, they will proc it constantly, so 60% uptime of poison right there, without factoring in their poison skills.

Kui mentioned for Rangers to, “check back in later” on Refined Toxins, as he said it will probably change so the proc depends only on the player’s health rather than being split.

Refined toxins has a ICD of 10 sec. So 12/10 poison uptime possible if both pet and ranger attack proc.

Actually, it would be 6secs, followed by another 6secs for complete uptime. Would have to hold the pet back until the player’s application ran out or vice-versa.

Refined Toxins could be better if the health threshold % was lowered or removed.

jcbroe.4329:

I know it doesn’t functionally comply with the theme of Poison Master or how necros are the only class with transfers, but the idea itself is more to represent what type of function is needed to even make a run for that trait slot.

Well, Ranger is supposed to be the jack of all trades and master of none, so they should be able to transfer, just not as good as a nec

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Manekk.6981:

…I’m imagening my spider pulling poor souls down from high cliffs to fall to their deaths xD

Imagine a spider with Refined Toxins too, since they are ranged and hardly get hit, they will proc it constantly, so 60% uptime of poison right there, without factoring in their poison skills.

I love that skill it seems so cheap to get that I can’t imagine ever not taking it on any build I love this new kitten the only problem for me is there is so much good stuff idk what to start with, I see so many awesome builds

Yeah, there are a lot of nice builds to be had now

The whole Beastmastery spec line seems to be quite good, too. Especially stuff like Go for the Eyes, Wilting Strike, Beastly Warden.

It is almost like these traits are asking for the use for a pet with a low recharge F2 (birds? ) or drakehound to bring alongside the wolf in spvp.

mistsim.2748:

2. LOYF: Poison Volley is going to be quite good, and SB in general could see some play on a trapper build. while it’s nice to have all SB CD’s lowered, I still feel Quickdraw would be better. This GM is almost unpickable due to Quickdraw being so good. But on a trapper poison-stacking build that relies a lot on SB, it could work. I think in testing SB was too strong, which is why they gutted this GM. Still, I’d like to see the +10% dmg and condi duration while moving added back to make LOYF somewhat competitive with Quickdraw.

TOO STRONK (relative to others in that line)

1. Wilderness Knowledge: required for most builds. Poison Master needs to be buffed to the point that someone would be willing to forego our best condi cleanses in order to do massive poison damage.

2. Quickdraw: this is arguably in the top 5 best GM’s in the game; it’s amazing for both power and condi builds, and it gives us a lot of utility. I have a bad feeling it might get nerfed, but that would be a mistake. Instead, MDG and LOYF need to be massively buffed to make people think a little.

LOYF has the problem that the 5% increase after dodging is minimal and it requires you to dodge. I for one would relinquish the 5% and hold on to my dodges instead.

And don’t you dare complaining about your so called “too stronk” GM traits, they are the only lights in the eternal darkness of mediocrity surrounding the Ranger.

too strong relative to others in that line, as in you would pick that line just for that trait.

The quickness trait in BM is better than the taunt tbh. Definitely if you stick to wolf for example since the taunt isn’t really good then.

mistsim.2748:

too strong relative to others in that line, as in you would pick that line just for that trait.

If you have good traits, that will happen regardless of what you do. There will always be a best choice. The problem comes when you have one of these choices in each line and they all work together, then you get shoutbow or cele ele.

Dojo.1867:

The quickness trait in BM is better than the taunt tbh. Definitely if you stick to wolf for example since the taunt isn’t really good then.

The best thing about the taunt, is you now don’t need to stick to wolf for a control effect and the CD is 1/3rd.

I don’t think the balancing went horribly wrong. I actually dont mind losing those boring +10% traits.

What I dislike is condiremoval being forced into a single line. In general it would be so good to have some less powerful version (wk is insane) as a master in a different line.

Honed axes also feels meh and placed very awkward and ofc there are some other GMs that flopped. Really hard to say what to buff though due to the massive changes incoming. Stuff like sb or axe might actually be really strong just due to the general changes to condis.

Out of my head I would say BM line is the biggest winner. MMS, Skirmishing and WS still have very strong reasons to go for them (already had before though). Only thing I am not sure about is Nature Magic. Spirit changes feel underwhelming. Never personally liked spirits though and I always thought they should stay stationary.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Dojo.1867:

The quickness trait in BM is better than the taunt tbh. Definitely if you stick to wolf for example since the taunt isn’t really good then.

The best thing about the taunt, is you now don’t need to stick to wolf for a control effect and the CD is 1/3rd.

Ye but I definitely want to use ZS for a few builds and then I will stick to wolf obv. We have to see how good the taunt works in practice especially with the drakes, etc.

I highly suspect Druid will get a condi cleanse mechanic, among other things, which will really change peoples approach to building their new ranger, so it might be best to just wait and see what kind of synergy may exist with these currently underwhelming traits and the new druid traits

How about improving Light on your feet by increasing the effects duration and cap the number of stacks you can generate? With a 4s duration you can stack this one just 2 times, because you have to dodge for it. If we increase this so you can get 4 stacks of it capped it would be a massive damage boost of 20%.

LoYF should be a shortbow defining trait.
Personally i don’t care about piercing arrows, with such short range we won’t hit much else, it only works well for longbow because of their massive range.
Having given it some thought heres what i think would make LoYF a viable option that could compete with quickdraw.

Reduce SB skill CD 20%
Increase movement speed in combat 25% when wielding SB and gain 3sec of swiftness and vigor after succesful evades while wielding SB
Conditions applied while flanking last 20% longer

Poison master needs a rework for sure, but it may be worth waiting until we experience the new condi stacking to ask for changes. Once we’ve tried them out we’ll know exactly what to be asking for.

Frigoris.7853:

LoYF should be a shortbow defining trait.
Personally i don’t care about piercing arrows, with such short range we won’t hit much else, it only works well for longbow because of their massive range.
Having given it some thought heres what i think would make LoYF a viable option that could compete with quickdraw.

Reduce SB skill CD 20%
Increase movement speed in combat 25% when wielding SB and gain 3sec of swiftness and vigor after succesful evades while wielding SB
Conditions applied while flanking last 20% longer

Poison master needs a rework for sure, but it may be worth waiting until we experience the new condi stacking to ask for changes. Once we’ve tried them out we’ll know exactly what to be asking for.

Your idea for SB is just terrible, why would i want vigor and swiftness? swiftness is cheap for ranger, you can c it everywhere. You have a minor on this trait line that gives 9sec swftness on 9sec CD. Vigor got nerfed is close to trash now, also you have trait that can give close to 100% vigor uptime. The movment speed is just a waste(c explanation on prema swiftnees). Piercing arrows is a must, cant c how you dont want it. LOYF should stay the same with just litle change – replace “dodge” with evade, make it stackble, give it cap of like 4-6 stacking – done.

LughLongArm.5460:

Frigoris.7853:

LoYF should be a shortbow defining trait.
Personally i don’t care about piercing arrows, with such short range we won’t hit much else, it only works well for longbow because of their massive range.
Having given it some thought heres what i think would make LoYF a viable option that could compete with quickdraw.

Reduce SB skill CD 20%
Increase movement speed in combat 25% when wielding SB and gain 3sec of swiftness and vigor after succesful evades while wielding SB
Conditions applied while flanking last 20% longer

Poison master needs a rework for sure, but it may be worth waiting until we experience the new condi stacking to ask for changes. Once we’ve tried them out we’ll know exactly what to be asking for.

Your idea for SB is just terrible, why would i want vigor and swiftness? swiftness is cheap for ranger, you can c it everywhere. You have a minor on this trait line that gives 9sec swftness on 9sec CD. Vigor got nerfed is close to trash now, also you have trait that can give close to 100% vigor uptime. The movment speed is just a waste(c explanation on prema swiftnees). Piercing arrows is a must, cant c how you dont want it. LOYF should stay the same with just litle change – replace “dodge” with evade, make it stackble, give it cap of like 4-6 stacking – done.

That would be cool. I still think the damage should be upped a bit. 5% isn’t a great buff, but I would use it if I could proc it whenever I used quick shot/serpents strike.

Vendetta.1958:

LughLongArm.5460:

Frigoris.7853:

LoYF should be a shortbow defining trait.
Personally i don’t care about piercing arrows, with such short range we won’t hit much else, it only works well for longbow because of their massive range.
Having given it some thought heres what i think would make LoYF a viable option that could compete with quickdraw.

Reduce SB skill CD 20%
Increase movement speed in combat 25% when wielding SB and gain 3sec of swiftness and vigor after succesful evades while wielding SB
Conditions applied while flanking last 20% longer

Poison master needs a rework for sure, but it may be worth waiting until we experience the new condi stacking to ask for changes. Once we’ve tried them out we’ll know exactly what to be asking for.

Your idea for SB is just terrible, why would i want vigor and swiftness? swiftness is cheap for ranger, you can c it everywhere. You have a minor on this trait line that gives 9sec swftness on 9sec CD. Vigor got nerfed is close to trash now, also you have trait that can give close to 100% vigor uptime. The movment speed is just a waste(c explanation on prema swiftnees). Piercing arrows is a must, cant c how you dont want it. LOYF should stay the same with just litle change – replace “dodge” with evade, make it stackble, give it cap of like 4-6 stacking – done.

That would be cool. I still think the damage should be upped a bit. 5% isn’t a great buff, but I would use it if I could proc it whenever I used quick shot/serpents strike.

5% for both damage and condi duration is quite high for a stackble buff. If it will be on evade, you find yourself many times evade several attacks with one evade ability, aslo this buff is workign with every weapon and not just the SB(GS evade on AA for example). Keep it at 5%, make it on evade, I dont think its even needs a cap, rarly u’ll get it buff you for more than 20% for 4 sec.

• Predator’s Onslaught is a no.1 pick for PvE. Your statement here is absolutely wrong.
• MDG – correct. Never ever going to be picked.
• Invigorating Bond – correct. Never going to be picked unless it welcomes a buff.
• Honex Axes – incorrect. You would like the AoE chill that is on such a short cooldown. The Ferocity part of the trait is wrong, but that doesn’t make the trait useless.

• Poison Master – slightly incorrect. Never ever going to be picked.
• Light on Your Feet – most probably situational. If you really want the piercing from Shortbow-you’d like this trait (multi-hit stun, bleeds, cripple). The damage boost is low, though.
• Empathic Bond – this trait would be picked only for builds that can’t afford survival skills. There’s no “consideration”. You have a clear answer that you have to go into this line for PvP, and you have been answered which of the 2 you are going to take according to your build.

Wilderness Knowledge – not really too strong. It just has the best potential. Conditions that can be cleansed on demand and can “stack” up to 10 condi cleanse in a few seconds? Definitely better than EB. But EB provides more Condi Transfer per second assuming the cooldown on your abilities.

Quick Draw – yes. Definitely too good for other traits to compete. The thing is – this trait is the only trait that might make us viable and the only trait that will make the ranger more fun.

Beastly Warden is indeed a very good choice. But depending on spirits – I can see the Nature’s Vengeance being as potential. You know, one of the spirits may pulse protection too, and 33% uptime is to be noted. Aegis can be the boon, too. The only thing is Invigorating Bond that has been explained already.

I’ll add that Empathic bond could welcome a buff of sort. I don’t care if the druid has a trait that increases your pet’s damage by X% for every condition it has, or the condition number goes up, or every condition it transfers will be turned into a boon according to the patch changes.

Currently it’s just a “trait we are forced to pick” because we have no other source of condi cleanse.

LughLongArm.5460:

5% for both damage and condi duration is quite high for a stackble buff. If it will be on evade, you find yourself many times evade several attacks with one evade ability, aslo this buff is workign with every weapon and not just the SB(GS evade on AA for example). Keep it at 5%, make it on evade, I dont think its even needs a cap, rarly u’ll get it buff you for more than 20% for 4 sec.

Nope, you have that wrong.

After dodging your damage and condition duration is increased by 5% for the next 4 seconds. Shortbow skills recharge 20% faster and pierce.

It means that after you perform a dodge roll you’ll get 5% damage boost for 4 seconds. Keep in mind that a dodge roll lasts for 0,75 seconds which leaves you only 4 seconds of 5% bonus damage or 3,25 seconds of 10% bonus damage.
Without Vigor – your recharge rate of dodge roll is 1 per 8,33 seconds.

It doesn’t really sound that awesome now, I’m afraid.

Tragic Positive.9356:

LughLongArm.5460:

5% for both damage and condi duration is quite high for a stackble buff. If it will be on evade, you find yourself many times evade several attacks with one evade ability, aslo this buff is workign with every weapon and not just the SB(GS evade on AA for example). Keep it at 5%, make it on evade, I dont think its even needs a cap, rarly u’ll get it buff you for more than 20% for 4 sec.

Nope, you have that wrong.

After dodging your damage and condition duration is increased by 5% for the next 4 seconds. Shortbow skills recharge 20% faster and pierce.

It means that after you perform a dodge roll you’ll get 5% damage boost for 4 seconds. Keep in mind that a dodge roll lasts for 0,75 seconds which leaves you only 4 seconds of 5% bonus damage or 3,25 seconds of 10% bonus damage.
Without Vigor – your recharge rate of dodge roll is 1 per 8,33 seconds.

It doesn’t really sound that awesome now, I’m afraid.

I know, I described the changes i want on LOYF, i saied it will be greati f they just change the dodge to evade.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Wilderness Knowledge – not really too strong. It just has the best potential. Conditions that can be cleansed on demand and can “stack” up to 10 condi cleanse in a few seconds? Definitely better than EB. But EB provides more Condi Transfer per second assuming the cooldown on your abilities.

Quick Draw – yes. Definitely too good for other traits to compete. The thing is – this trait is the only trait that might make us viable and the only trait that will make the ranger more fun.

I think with stackable burning and poison, on demand clears will be better than paced automatic clears. Condi burst builds with 3k armor will soon be a thing, I’m afraid.

Also I don’t quick draw is too strong, rather that it’s competition is quite frankly crap.

Traits like Remorseless and Quick Draw will be build defining traits, like static discharge for engis, or fresh air for eles. It’s just a shame that they watered down cool things like LOYF and put SotF in Wilderness Survival, as they could have been the same thing.

LughLongArm.5460:

Vendetta.1958:

LughLongArm.5460:

Frigoris.7853:

LoYF should be a shortbow defining trait.
Personally i don’t care about piercing arrows, with such short range we won’t hit much else, it only works well for longbow because of their massive range.
Having given it some thought heres what i think would make LoYF a viable option that could compete with quickdraw.

Reduce SB skill CD 20%
Increase movement speed in combat 25% when wielding SB and gain 3sec of swiftness and vigor after succesful evades while wielding SB
Conditions applied while flanking last 20% longer

Poison master needs a rework for sure, but it may be worth waiting until we experience the new condi stacking to ask for changes. Once we’ve tried them out we’ll know exactly what to be asking for.

Your idea for SB is just terrible, why would i want vigor and swiftness? swiftness is cheap for ranger, you can c it everywhere. You have a minor on this trait line that gives 9sec swftness on 9sec CD. Vigor got nerfed is close to trash now, also you have trait that can give close to 100% vigor uptime. The movment speed is just a waste(c explanation on prema swiftnees). Piercing arrows is a must, cant c how you dont want it. LOYF should stay the same with just litle change – replace “dodge” with evade, make it stackble, give it cap of like 4-6 stacking – done.

That would be cool. I still think the damage should be upped a bit. 5% isn’t a great buff, but I would use it if I could proc it whenever I used quick shot/serpents strike.

5% for both damage and condi duration is quite high for a stackble buff. If it will be on evade, you find yourself many times evade several attacks with one evade ability, aslo this buff is workign with every weapon and not just the SB(GS evade on AA for example). Keep it at 5%, make it on evade, I dont think its even needs a cap, rarly u’ll get it buff you for more than 20% for 4 sec.

Oh you mean stackable intensity. I was thinking just stackable duration.

Eh, I’d prefer it to be +10% damage for 5s after an evade and stacks duration. That would stop me from Lightning Reflexing through an enemy zerg and pulling a 20k maul on some poor soul in the back :P

Tragic Positive.9356:

• Honex Axes – incorrect. You would like the AoE chill that is on such a short cooldown. The Ferocity part of the trait is wrong, but that doesn’t make the trait useless.

i just don’t understand why you would go into BM and not get Beastly Warden almost every time. zephyr’s speed would be a situational pick for longbow specs. the other issue is aoe chill doesn’t improve your 1v1 or skirmishing capabilities AT ALL. it’s very unlikely you’ll be clipping everyone with the chill, unless youre throwing it into a zerg. and even then, a hard CC status effect is always better than a soft condi. people slot 1 or 2 stunbreakers at most, while having plentiful or limitless condi cleanses.

Honed Axes wont be getting picked by anyone “good”, until axes get mega buffed or something. unless Beastly Warden turns out to be a mega fail, which i doubt.

to address some other concerns, the GM’s i listed under too strong are exactly that – they are too strong relative to others in that line. meaning they will likely get picked almost every time. this does not mean they need to get nerfed, but simply that we need to buff the others to that level.