Guild Wars 2

Don’t get me wrong, I like having to be skillful to be good with a class. However, there’s a point where skill can only take you so far and it comes down the the profession you are playing.

With a Regen-Condition ranger I can take on pretty much any class 1v1, not trying to brag, the build brings me a long way. But, I have to fight tooth and nail to even stand toe-to-toe with some of the classes out there if the person behind the computer is anywhere near my skill level.

The reason I started playing the ranger was because I rarely saw any good ones in WvW and I enjoy playing the weaker classes and trying to make them good. But, there comes a point where I ask myself “why am I giving myself a huge handicap?”

Pets are a joke.

Spirits are a joke in WvW.

Condition removal is a joke.

I roam in WvW with 5 or less. Ranger/Necro make a sick duo, if you haven’t tried it you should.

I just wanted to rant a little.

Thats what I keep on saying is that take a skilled player and give them another class like mesmer, warrior, or gaurdian and they will be better there than on a ranger because they are not handicapped by their respective class mechanics.

Tricare.2946:

not trying to brag

Hard to take that seriously with your foot note

aussieheals.6843:

Tricare.2946:

not trying to brag

Hard to take that seriously with your foot note

I take the OP very seriously. What he says is true. Ranger is the class that is forced to play with one hand tied behind his back while wearing a blindfold. It’s BS! And Anet knows it.

Ranger skills on weapons feel so dull yet other classes have plenty of AOE’s which annoys the heck outta me

I miss my sword ranger from GW1. Most of the skills I used were warrior skills but I wish the GW2 ranger had a solid main hand option.

Oh, and assassins couldn’t stealth. “Sic ’Em” is pretty good tho.

I’ve been running Power Necro / Ranger as my main toons since beta and recently swapped to my Warrior and Mesmer as my dual mains – the difference is astounding.

Warriors just have everything, and Mesmers are impossible to catch if played well.

I wish A-net would pull their fingers out and have a look at some of the classes/builds with issues. Don’t get me wrong, Ranger and Power Necro are fun to play, but also a great deal more difficult than the big-3 of GW2 (Warrior/Mesmer/Guardian).

Speaking from a WvW perspective btw – roaming & teamfights.

Tired of skill carrying the class.

Yeah, me too. I should log into my characters and the game should flawlessly play itself while I watch and have a hot cocoa.

(True story: I sometimes do this in PvP. Spectating is a great way to learn. So I do appreciate the option! )

yep sins couldnt stealth, but they had more knockdowns than 4 warriors in gw2 incl uber boonstrip.
and in gw1, ranger was also carried by 1 skill. it was dshot. when you didnt play with it , your built was just a gimmicky one (like bunny thumper, thrasher, enraged lunge).
dshot was one of the best (if not the best) skills in gw1, i wish ranger had a similar skill like it in gw2.

Domey.9804:

and in gw1, ranger was also carried by 1 skill. it was dshot. when you didnt play with it , your built was just a gimmicky one (like bunny thumper, thrasher, enraged lunge).
dshot was one of the best (if not the best) skills in gw1, i wish ranger had a similar skill like it in gw2.

Nah, in GW1 they complained about rangers being weak there too.

Distracting Shot had terrible scaling, actually limited the amount of damage it could do with few sources able to increase that number, and outside of an interrupt build (with the skill to land it, as it had a longer cooldown), it was a bad pick for anything damage related.

It was a nice filler skill for skilled interrupters, but not terribly incredible.

Domey.9804:

and in gw1, ranger was also carried by 1 skill. it was dshot. when you didnt play with it , your built was just a gimmicky one (like bunny thumper, thrasher, enraged lunge).
dshot was one of the best (if not the best) skills in gw1, i wish ranger had a similar skill like it in gw2.

Bunny Thumper was awesome. Pet AI wasn’t tho. (And it was annoying to get body blocked by your own pet.)

The sad thing is, those “gimmicky” builds were better / funnier to play than any GW2 ranger build atm. GW2 has such gimmick builds like spirit ranger xD Other classes have probably even more lame stuff. Idk, GW2 needs more utility (weapon skills) asap.

CETheLucid.3964:

Nah, in GW1 they complained about rangers being weak there too.

Distracting Shot had terrible scaling, actually limited the amount of damage it could do with few sources able to increase that number, and outside of an interrupt build (with the skill to land it, as it had a longer cooldown), it was a bad pick for anything damage related.

It was a nice filler skill for skilled interrupters, but not terribly incredible.

I would not exactly call it a filler. There were only a few people so very skilled with the class that it would make or break matches. It was not incredible damage wise, but the utility you’d bring of having a self maintaining roamer with plenty of utility for team fights was amazing.

If you can remember, just ask yourself this: how many GvG battles have been decided because the team was able to push after a ranger landed a well placed interrupt. That specific scenario was not limited to team fights, it happened when a ranger went roaming too. If a key skill in the enemy base got interrupted the enemy team would be forced to send reinforcements in many cases.

But yeah, it was always a class carried by skill. The problem in GW2 is just how far skill can actually carry your class. As it stands now, the ranger can go toe to toe with other professions when played well. But that means giving up group utility and basically being a roamer that has no real niche other than arguably point ‘turtling’.

The class doesn’t have the tools to succeed. The 3 most important things a class can provide in an MMO is burst, AE, and utility. That doesn’t mean a class needs to provide all 3, but the Ranger class currently provides none of these things. This means you’re facing an uphill battle every game to make up for the class deficiency in not only damage, but utility, and support as well. This is why many question what this class honestly does and people in larger groups (gvg, wvw meta, etc) consistently rank the class 8th place? Right now it only really functions in a dueling/small group role, but even this is largely because of the current state of conditions and less to do with the class’ design.

Until the class gets some reasonable level of burst, AE, or utility, there’s simply nothing it does that’s worth bringing.

They do provide burst if they are geared properly, but as far as they other 2, they do lack. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, that my ranger does more burst damage than my warrior with equal gear and both traited for sheer damage.

I just don’t understand why people have this stigma that they must either go condition with regeneration and/or toughness. While this may be effective in sPvP, this is not the case in WvW. When the larger group rolls your way, your dead because you don’t have the mobility to escape, the damage to contribute, or the utility to help. If you come across someone with an equal or greater skill level, your more than likely dead, because again, the class doesn’t have the utility to keep up or the damage to sustain.

If your intention is to play WvW and contribute as best you can, you have to utilize the Ranger to their only real strength they have.. damage. Learn to stay alive and where to position yourself, and you’ll see just how inferior the other builds are.

Some people will say that Rangers are easy targets, cannon fodder, or rallybait; I’ve played against nearly all servers and currently reside in T1. That statement, just isn’t the case.

JorneMormel.9850:

CETheLucid.3964:

Nah, in GW1 they complained about rangers being weak there too.

Distracting Shot had terrible scaling, actually limited the amount of damage it could do with few sources able to increase that number, and outside of an interrupt build (with the skill to land it, as it had a longer cooldown), it was a bad pick for anything damage related.

It was a nice filler skill for skilled interrupters, but not terribly incredible.

If you can remember, just ask yourself this: how many GvG battles have been decided because the team was able to push after a ranger landed a well placed interrupt. That specific scenario was not limited to team fights, it happened when a ranger went roaming too. If a key skill in the enemy base got interrupted the enemy team would be forced to send reinforcements in many cases.

You have a point there.

Jgr.8765:

Bunny Thumper was awesome. Pet AI wasn’t tho. (And it was annoying to get body blocked by your own pet.)

Maybe I’m not old enough, but as long as I played GW1 my pet nor my teammates could bodyblock me. Only your enemies or their pets could bodyblock you.

Atherakhia.4086:

The class doesn’t have the tools to succeed. The 3 most important things a class can provide in an MMO is burst, AE, and utility.

They can do burst, and even an untraited spirit ranger provides excellent group utility. A traited one provides unparalleled party support.

A traited and untraited one together is almost OP.

We don’t have much in the way of AoE, but the one we do have is one of the better ones in the game and the only one unaffected by the AoE limit.

CETheLucid.3964:

Domey.9804:

and in gw1, ranger was also carried by 1 skill. it was dshot. when you didnt play with it , your built was just a gimmicky one (like bunny thumper, thrasher, enraged lunge).
dshot was one of the best (if not the best) skills in gw1, i wish ranger had a similar skill like it in gw2.

Nah, in GW1 they complained about rangers being weak there too.

Distracting Shot had terrible scaling, actually limited the amount of damage it could do with few sources able to increase that number, and outside of an interrupt build (with the skill to land it, as it had a longer cooldown), it was a bad pick for anything damage related.

It was a nice filler skill for skilled interrupters, but not terribly incredible.

I can’t even begin to explain how many games were won by my Guild(s) in GvG because I hit the monks WoH/Healing Burst/RC and it let my team push through and wipe an enemy guild. Or, alleviating the pressure by making sure a mesmer never ever ever got off Diversion or Shame, while shutting down any eles and ritualists nearby.

And, shutting down rezzes, just about one of the most important functions in the entire game.

So, maybe damage wise weak, but rangers had just about the most important function in a competitive atmosphere, because a single ranger build could do just about every function in the game if necessary. Shutdown the enemy team, split to the enemy base and start soloing NPCs, carry the teams flag, cripple the opponents flag runner, Spike Support, Pressure Support, and Team Support.

It’s just so impossible to stress enough how valuable a Guild Wars 1 ranger was.

jcbroe.4329:

I can’t even begin to explain how many games were won by my Guild(s) in GvG because I hit the monks WoH/Healing Burst/RC and it let my team push through and wipe an enemy guild. Or, alleviating the pressure by making sure a mesmer never ever ever got off Diversion or Shame, while shutting down any eles and ritualists nearby.

And, shutting down rezzes, just about one of the most important functions in the entire game.

So, maybe damage wise weak, but rangers had just about the most important function in a competitive atmosphere, because a single ranger build could do just about every function in the game if necessary. Shutdown the enemy team, split to the enemy base and start soloing NPCs, carry the teams flag, cripple the opponents flag runner, Spike Support, Pressure Support, and Team Support.

It’s just so impossible to stress enough how valuable a Guild Wars 1 ranger was.

I get it. But that didn’t change the general opinion about rangers, except when niche builds in HA popped up and were summarily nerfed.

The ranger has always had an image problem, in GW1 and GW2. What has happened before will happen again.

There are 3 forms of burst available to this class: Maul, Path of Scars, and call lightning (which was just nerfed). If you have other skills you want to claim are burst, please list them and so help me god don’t list rapid fire…

Maul: This skill is great burst. The problem is there’s nothing else the weapon set can do if Maul didn’t finish the target.

Path of Scars: Requires both hits to actually do appreciable damage and is probably one of the least used weapons for this class.

Call Lightning: Just nerfed.

AOE this class has only one real option in Barrage, but it does poor damage, roots a class that relies on mobility, and only cripples the target. The other forms of AE like piercing arrows and traps aren’t really reliable enough to be counted.

So feel free to list the other forms of AE and burst you guys find this class has so we can debate them further.

Utility is the one thing this class actually has a fair bit of, but because it’s almost entirely tied down to pets/spirits, it is very unreliable.

CETheLucid.3964:

jcbroe.4329:

I can’t even begin to explain how many games were won by my Guild(s) in GvG because I hit the monks WoH/Healing Burst/RC and it let my team push through and wipe an enemy guild. Or, alleviating the pressure by making sure a mesmer never ever ever got off Diversion or Shame, while shutting down any eles and ritualists nearby.

And, shutting down rezzes, just about one of the most important functions in the entire game.

So, maybe damage wise weak, but rangers had just about the most important function in a competitive atmosphere, because a single ranger build could do just about every function in the game if necessary. Shutdown the enemy team, split to the enemy base and start soloing NPCs, carry the teams flag, cripple the opponents flag runner, Spike Support, Pressure Support, and Team Support.

It’s just so impossible to stress enough how valuable a Guild Wars 1 ranger was.

I get it. But that didn’t change the general opinion about rangers, except when niche builds in HA popped up and were summarily nerfed.

The ranger has always had an image problem, in GW1 and GW2. What has happened before will happen again.

I’m not sure where. My guild (primarily a GvG/HA guild) always wanted me on my ranger, regardless of whether we were GvG/HA’ing, or doing an Underworld run. I never experienced this image problem rangers supposedly had in Guild Wars 1, ever.

Dshot was never a dmg skill. Dshot is Not disrupting shot, that was a Super Bad skill.dshot = distracting shot.20sec additional cd to any skill interrupted. Long cooldown? 10sec! That skill was Elite worthy and for sure was the best skill on a Ranger. And carried the proffession in pvp.

Atherakhia.4086:

Maul: This skill is great burst. The problem is there’s nothing else the weapon set can do if Maul didn’t finish the target.

Complete range attack shut-down with a cool Monster Hunter animation, a stun, an excellent gap closer with field utility, an evade built into the auto attack…

And a burst skill. Yeah. GS sucks.

Atherakhia.4086:

Path of Scars: Requires both hits to actually do appreciable damage and is probably one of the least used weapons for this class.

Goes great with sword, applies retaliation, reflects projectiles, and applies vulnerability and in addition to being burst, it’s a pull. Lots of potential.

Atherakhia.4086:

Call Lightning: Just nerfed.

IMO people who were using this for burst were wasting a utility slot. It wasn’t that great in any format except in PvP’s tight points.

Atherakhia.4086:

AOE this class has only one real option in Barrage, but it does poor damage, roots a class that relies on mobility, and only cripples the target.

Yes, that’s pretty much what I said about Barrage; minus the kitten you had all over it. Barrage does decent damage, and is one of the better area denial skills.

MS hurts, but you can get out of it. Cripple is a death sentence in group play. Someones going to catch you and kill you. The decent damage it does is just icing on the cake.

Atherakhia.4086:

The other forms of AE like piercing arrows and traps aren’t really reliable enough to be counted.

Traited traps are pretty amazing. They’re not bad untraited with one or two for utility. Just depends on what you’re doing. You’re also forgetting Spotter, which is really nice AE.

Piercing arrows is a bit situational.

Atherakhia.4086:

So feel free to list the other forms of AE and burst you guys find this class has so we can debate them further.

I don’t think I’m going to change your mind. So, that’s a waste of time.

Atherakhia.4086:

Utility is the one thing this class actually has a fair bit of, but because it’s almost entirely tied down to pets/spirits, it is very unreliable.

If you say so.

CETheLucid.3964:

snip

Every single thing you listed for GS is defensive in nature. It has kitten poor damage. If you swap to it for burst and don’t kill you’re stuck with a weapon that does really crap damage until maul comes back up. It’s a great support weapon, but that’s not what we’re discussing… If this class had a trait to reduce the cooldown on weapon swap it wouldn’t be such a big deal. That or the damage of the weapon was increased to compete with other melee weapons (something not likely to happen with an evade on the third hit).

Barrage also doesn’t do good damage, I’m not sure what you’re comparing it to to come up with that unless you’re assuming someone is seriously going to stand in it the full duration? What weapons other attacks are you comparing this to to say it’s doing good damage for an AE skill? It does poor damage because it’s a cripple… but no one cares about the cripple and it roots you briefly to set up, something a class like this can’t do unless on a wall.

I just wish rangers needed to spec into Beast Mastery to obtain a pet. Otherwise, they gain “nature attunements” which provide poison, blinding, torment, and bleeding on 1 attacks with weapons. They receive full scaling damage on their weapons. Speccing into Beast Mastery for those who want a pet will receive current damage scaling.

thefantasticg.3984:

Thats what I keep on saying is that take a skilled player and give them another class like mesmer, warrior, or gaurdian and they will be better there than on a ranger because they are not handicapped by their respective class mechanics.

I gotta say ele is probably the best place to put a good player, the skill ceiling on that prof is gigantic!

aussieheals.6843:

Hard to take that seriously with your foot note

That was for a ele on BG, he was claiming to be the best roaming ele.

CETheLucid.3964:

Tired of skill carrying the class.

Yeah, me too. I should log into my characters and the game should flawlessly play itself while I watch and have a hot cocoa.

(True story: I sometimes do this in PvP. Spectating is a great way to learn. So I do appreciate the option! )

If you read my post, I was saying that you could be the most skilled player in the world, but still get beat by a 5 year old on a prismatic understanding mesmer just spamming his skills. The professions need to be balanced closer, not saying just for 1v1’s.

DeadlySynz.3471:

They do provide burst if they are geared properly, but as far as they other 2, they do lack. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, that my ranger does more burst damage than my warrior with equal gear and both traited for sheer damage.

I’m not sure if you’ve seen some of the warriors out there, full zerker gear with max dps. Yet, still have stances to laugh at conditions/dps and get in, bust someone down, and run away laughing.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Some people will say that Rangers are easy targets, cannon fodder, or rallybait; I’ve played against nearly all servers and currently reside in T1. That statement, just isn’t the case.

T1 has nothing to do with skill, sorry. When roaming in my normal group, if there’s a zerker ranger, which you do notice pretty quick because of the dps, we target them and down them before they can do any real damage. For zerker rangers to be able to do damage, they have to be left alone. Any pressure on them and they are not doing any dps anymore.

CETheLucid.3964:

They can do burst, and even an untraited spirit ranger provides excellent group utility. A traited one provides unparalleled party support.

A traited and untraited one together is almost OP.

Spirit rangers in WvW are a joke. I’ve tried them many times. However, with the nerfs to spirits they are even worse. (the interrupt nerf that is) Spirits die to all the aoe every other class brings to the table, so they are out of the fight in a matter of seconds.

Also, I believe they nerfed the two spirits stacking, traited and untraited.

I have some good fights with spirits though, before the nerf.

thefantasticg.3984:

Thats what I keep on saying is that take a skilled player and give them another class like mesmer, warrior, or gaurdian and they will be better there than on a ranger because they are not handicapped by their respective class mechanics.

This… I recently moved to warrior (regen build) and I eat ranger regen builds quite easy. The ranger class simply has issues and no amount of players skill can help them. No matter who says its good, its not :P. But yes rolling another character will no doubt benefit from the skill ranger players have learned on that class. Move up and see the difference yourself .
Rangers have always needed an up to burst damage as a basic requirement, something Anet are still not fully understanding. The problem with ranger and build diversity is very difficult. The problem being you need to spec 30 points into almost anything to get the best out of it, when other classes can carry small amounts of points shared across the tree and get so much damage and survival to do well. Rangers spec 30 points into something and it detracts away major from something else. This leaves the ranger in dire straits as this means there may be not enough healing/ power, crit or vit and even condies for it to fully survive more than a 1v1 battle in any PvP scenario. Yes there are regen rangers and the builds are very viable, but regen is still not the answer and major burst damage will always whittle you down especially when that burst is continuous. Rangers need a lot of things but given a boost to base damage ( I mean axes and as for shortbow, well its an utter mess), will help rangers far more in the long run than spirits and all this other codswallop.

Durzlla.6295:

thefantasticg.3984:

Thats what I keep on saying is that take a skilled player and give them another class like mesmer, warrior, or gaurdian and they will be better there than on a ranger because they are not handicapped by their respective class mechanics.

I gotta say ele is probably the best place to put a good player, the skill ceiling on that prof is gigantic!

Oh man yes, that ride the lightning is death on a ranger when executed correctly, I give a lot of respects to eles – they can be pro .

I gotta say, one thing I’ve noticed about ranger is in PvP it’s pretty mindless with a few weapons to be good (SB for example), so the skill ceiling is just sooooo low because of how kittening passive ranger plays. This really hurts the prof as a whole because there’s almost no difference between a good and bad ranger (some builds there is but that’s like 2, MAYBE).

I will say though that as simple (and demanded) as giving rangers full control of their pet would be to shoot up the skill ceiling it won’t help the prof as a whole , we need trait and utility reworks so we aren’t pigeonholed into 30pt investments to bring utilities up to par.

Durzlla.6295:

I gotta say, one thing I’ve noticed about ranger is in PvP it’s pretty mindless with a few weapons to be good (SB for example), so the skill ceiling is just sooooo low because of how kittening passive ranger plays. This really hurts the prof as a whole because there’s almost no difference between a good and bad ranger (some builds there is but that’s like 2, MAYBE).

I will say though that as simple (and demanded) as giving rangers full control of their pet would be to shoot up the skill ceiling it won’t help the prof as a whole , we need trait and utility reworks so we aren’t pigeonholed into 30pt investments to bring utilities up to par.

I’ve been playing with Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, spirit build without Storm Spirit (so my spirits don’t do damage, only utility), and my pet on passive so I have to manage it’s targets, so nobody can say I’m just AA spamming and being carried, at least no more than engis running Incendiary Powder or Dhuumfire necros.

I have to say, that it’s the only time I feel like I’m using any sort of APM to be effective, but the thing that takes the fun out of it is managing your APM and multitasking and everything perfectly, but the pet still not “behaving” properly.

For instance, I get my wolf knockdown, and chain it into the fear to land, so, perfect, I switch to my river drake, hit f1, and f2, and the drake still decides it wants to look at and shoot it’s f2 at the wall because it takes like 5 seconds before a summoned pet is able to “think” and select the target you tell it to select.

Like, I couldn’t have had a more perfect input, but the mechanic itself is limiting, and it’s just frustrating, because I can pull off other combinations of skills like this on other classes, just not ranger.

jcbroe.4329:

Durzlla.6295:

I gotta say, one thing I’ve noticed about ranger is in PvP it’s pretty mindless with a few weapons to be good (SB for example), so the skill ceiling is just sooooo low because of how kittening passive ranger plays. This really hurts the prof as a whole because there’s almost no difference between a good and bad ranger (some builds there is but that’s like 2, MAYBE).

I will say though that as simple (and demanded) as giving rangers full control of their pet would be to shoot up the skill ceiling it won’t help the prof as a whole , we need trait and utility reworks so we aren’t pigeonholed into 30pt investments to bring utilities up to par.

I’ve been playing with Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, spirit build without Storm Spirit (so my spirits don’t do damage, only utility), and my pet on passive so I have to manage it’s targets, so nobody can say I’m just AA spamming and being carried, at least no more than engis running Incendiary Powder or Dhuumfire necros.

I have to say, that it’s the only time I feel like I’m using any sort of APM to be effective, but the thing that takes the fun out of it is managing your APM and multitasking and everything perfectly, but the pet still not “behaving” properly.

For instance, I get my wolf knockdown, and chain it into the fear to land, so, perfect, I switch to my river drake, hit f1, and f2, and the drake still decides it wants to look at and shoot it’s f2 at the wall because it takes like 5 seconds before a summoned pet is able to “think” and select the target you tell it to select.

Like, I couldn’t have had a more perfect input, but the mechanic itself is limiting, and it’s just frustrating, because I can pull off other combinations of skills like this on other classes, just not ranger.

I feel your pain…. I know I run a Longbow+ Sword/Dagger (or warhorn) for the same exact reason, and I recently moved into using only survival utilities because they’re the only ones that feel like actual utilities.

Our shouts are just, let’s be honest, lame, I still think they should effect your pet and 5 nearby targets (excluding you) and can be traited into boosting you. Our spirits are really lack luster, I would like to see them more like shaman totems from WoW aka really easy to kill, immune to AoE so you have to target them to kill them, but a really devestation effect if you don’t deal with them. Our signets shouldn’t need traits to be worthwhile, end of story, and then traps just don’t work well with any non trap build…

PS: I didn’t comment on the pets because I could rant for hours about how stupid our pet AI is

The main problem of GW2 is that it wants to promote all these varied builds and playstyles and they are forced into a very strict skill system that by design has to be very broad. What we get is players with the idea of going out and doing something and then falling short because either traits or utilities can’t complement it.

I would hope that updates would come and fill in some of these holes, but with more and more focus on adding more of the same, it doesn’t really look like they are willing to make the big steps.

i dont like roaming with a condi/regen because you have no escape tools, and condi removal is insufficient. meaning, if there are two condi spammers focusing you, youre done. hammer monkeys can shut you down. thiefs can pick you apart (not 1v1, but in group scenarios). in other words, condi rangers are quite subpar outside of duels and controlled 2v2’s.

back to the point: the ranger remains the most unfinished profession. not likely i will return to it until the pet mechanic is revamped and power builds are given more sustain. however, power build damage is quite good if built for glass. but it’s just too easy to die.

aussieheals.6843:

Tricare.2946:

not trying to brag

Hard to take that seriously with your foot note

“Vezin – Considered by many players to be the best WvW roaming roamer from Maguuma”

The question has to be asked:
What is a roaming roamer?
And are there roamers who don’t roam?

@topic: anet is probably afraid that if they buff ranger, skilled players will be unbeatable due to the way player skill influences performance with the ranger.
But I don’t get, why they don’t “dumb down” the class a bit then.

naphack.9346:

“Vezin – Considered by many players to be the best WvW roaming roamer from Maguuma”

The question has to be asked:
What is a roaming roamer?
And are there roamers who don’t roam?

Haha I guess I need to take the signature off. When my server faced Blackgate there was a ele with the signature

“(His name) – Considered by many to be the best roaming Elementalist on Blackgate”

I made mine as a joke to his.

Sadly, I have started to play mesmer and warrior…I almost wished i hadn’t but i did and now it seems like many things achievable for my ranger is on easy mode. Mesmer conditions are just OP, and warrior damage+defense is not even in the same realm.

i mained a ranger since beta and it actually has made me a better player overall. i win some and lose some. playing nearly anything else i learned some sure, but i win most of the time which is the difference for me.

something is just missing with ranger. one thing is for sure, some classes i’m not nearly as skilled in the class as i am with ranger yet i do better vs everything. like i’m not the greatest mesmer or necro but i steamroll with either.

sure i still might win in the same situation with my ranger but my ranger in the same situation is like perfectly playing all the rounds of bell choir blindfolded to win in the same devestating fashion.

I roam on my ranger. I’m not a duelist. I flip camps, kill sentries & yaks, bang on a door and kill the guards, and when I come across someone else I’ll fight them no matter the profession. I give as good as I get and generally blame myself when I lose.

When everything goes like it should it can be really amazing. When it does not it will be a disaster. Trouble is usually one thing goes wrong, pets stops to admire the flowers or you miss you rotation, we have to make that split decision to escape or try to recover. We’ve all done it. Said no biggie, fluffy’s taking a dump and I can pull this off and the next thing you downed wondering WTF. Fluffy’s standing there proud of herself.

I just wish we were more fluid. I’m leveling a warrior and while only 50 it is so much more fluid its not funny. I started GW2 on a guardian and when zerging got boring I did a necro and ranger. Ranger is more fun by far but I wish it was a lot better. Anet’s admission of the broken pet mechanic and our standing as last on the list for improvement just were’s you down.

If you remember Warriors were trash when the game started so I have hope that someday we’ll get some love. But I feel since we are not favored in dungeon groups or WvW it will a long time before we see anything.

I would not mind trying out a sniper type mechanic.

Hate to break it to you, but here is the truth:

No profession in this game has a high skill cap. The skill cap required is game knowledge and how skilled your opponent is. This is no different for Rangers.

Domey.9804:

and in gw1, ranger was also carried by 1 skill. it was dshot. when you didnt play with it , your built was just a gimmicky one (like bunny thumper, thrasher, enraged lunge).
dshot was one of the best (if not the best) skills in gw1, i wish ranger had a similar skill like it in gw2.

Bunny Thumper was awesome. Pet AI wasn’t tho. (And it was annoying to get body blocked by your own pet.)

The sad thing is, those “gimmicky” builds were better / funnier to play than any GW2 ranger build atm. GW2 has such gimmick builds like spirit ranger xD Other classes have probably even more lame stuff. Idk, GW2 needs more utility (weapon skills) asap.

Gimmick build? i was running full 16 Beastmastery – 14 expertise with a full pet spell bar. My bear was solo taking on duncan the black with more damage reduction regen and armor then an ele with stoneflesh spamming mystic regeneration! Heal as one made pet leech health on strike and the thing even healed you on its hits! A well rounded beast master was invincible pve wise/pvp wise and it took at least 3 guy just to take one down because it was the only build from wich all spell were instantanous save for the heal wich could actualy kite all over the place without stopping and still keep doing nuts damage (liked my 200 brutal strike hit dude here comes another in 6 second!) while healing on the loose. Go ahead kill my pet i rez it instantly within 8 second and its that hard to damage youl be long dead before you manage to take it down xD

Whole point is that for a very long time pet was discarded as useless because everyone actualy hated on the AI but once the thing was off after its target you could actualy see the fear in their eyes as the thing would do the same damage as an enraged axe warrior with twice the speed and a near endless supply of health.

The moment Anet actualy get serious with the ranger pets here people will start fearing it for real.

kyubi.3620:

Domey.9804:
Snip…

Whole point is that for a very long time pet was discarded as useless because everyone actualy hated on the AI but once the thing was off after its target you could actualy see the fear in their eyes as the thing would do the same damage as an enraged axe warrior with twice the speed and a near endless supply of health.

The moment Anet actualy get serious with the ranger pets here people will start fearing it for real.

And this is the point, because if they made the pet actually do any damage worth its salt ( remembering it is basically the same NPC animal you find lolloping about ), then people will complain they were beaten by a creature that was independent of Ranger control, not that ranger can actually control the pet anyways IMO, micromanage you can do to a degree but as its very AI is sluggish and unresponsive that cannot happen with 100% accuracy.

So basically people would whine that the ranger itself (as well as the tired old excuse of being spammed autoattack on a bow) is also being helped by a AI controlled pet, independant on players skill etc. The pet at the moment is akin to swinging a rock on a bit of string, waiting for a lucky chance of a hit. In PVE against ordinary NPC (not champions and Vets) then the pet would do its job. It is when it is faced with playing creatures designed to make it taxing for players ( ie dungeons) and of course in a WvW scenario where the environment is both fast paced, player skill controlled and open to other skills, abuses etc then the pet falls woefully short and is of little use.

This is why I am all for removal of the pet, ranger or not. If the ranger class with its beast is broken and cannot be fixed, it would be better renaming this class and developing other skills for it to take its place and call it Archer. I am sure many if given the option to have full control and damage variants back to their class so any engagement can be won through skill, most would take it. Any that would not is either lying or not thinking fully on the positives it would bring to them. I don’t want a pet to fight for me but then nor do I wish to be hindered by one because of sub standard quality control and gaming politics.

In the meantime I shall play my warrior and engie, I shall keep my dreamer un-soulbound until Anet decides to get real and sort the class out. I don’t see the point in making good ( and very grindy) things such as ascended armor for a ranger, when the class cannot get the good of it as opposed to other classes simply because of Anets arrogance to not sort the issues out.

If its broken as Anet says it is, then instead of developing resources on more living world developments( which basically all share the same protocol), then fix a team for a week and sort the class out.
I eventually rolled another class that’s meta to counteract the necros and guardians and I am actually enjoying the game more, not because I am facerolling but because I enjoy being on an even keel, where game skills determine the ending and not because the game is hindering me because of PVP whingers. I do however love ranger play and use it only now to map complete. I do hope one day Anet will sort this class out for the better, I somehow doubt it

Durzlla.6295:

thefantasticg.3984:

Thats what I keep on saying is that take a skilled player and give them another class like mesmer, warrior, or gaurdian and they will be better there than on a ranger because they are not handicapped by their respective class mechanics.

I gotta say ele is probably the best place to put a good player, the skill ceiling on that prof is gigantic!

I recently rolled an Ele and an Engi. Ele is lvl 45 and I don’t understand how having attunements doesn’t scare away new players because of all the options vs. having more control over our pets scares away new players (as a certain Dev in a STOG put it).

thefantasticg.3984:

Durzlla.6295:

thefantasticg.3984:

Thats what I keep on saying is that take a skilled player and give them another class like mesmer, warrior, or gaurdian and they will be better there than on a ranger because they are not handicapped by their respective class mechanics.

I gotta say ele is probably the best place to put a good player, the skill ceiling on that prof is gigantic!

I recently rolled an Ele and an Engi. Ele is lvl 45 and I don’t understand how having attunements doesn’t scare away new players because of all the options vs. having more control over our pets scares away new players (as a certain Dev in a STOG put it).

Imo, attunements just translates into you juggling 4 weapons, where as a ranger you need to essentially play, and be aware of, 2 bodies on the battle field at the same time, if you also had to command all of the abilities but the auto attack on both those bodies that’d be really intimidating to new players.

As is ranger is fairly difficult with the whole keeping the pet up thing, granted it’s doable I’ve gotten to the point where the only time my pet dies in instance is either 1) I’m not paying attention or 2) I sacrificed him for the groups sake. So that’s probably why they’re afraid of it because as an ele once you get down the attunements you can play the prof pretty easily, once you break away from a “rotation” and start throwing out combos as you need them is really when the sky becomes the limit.

Just my 2 cents though.

This is a game where everyone needs to bring their own sustain. Fine.
This is a game where enemy conditions will drop you fast. Fine.

/looks at Ranger condition removal options.
>.>

Nothing will be fixed unless they improve the ability to combat conditions in a condition dominated meta.

I think I would rather just rate the classes in two categories than actually try to delve into every class any explain.

So, category 1, APM required in order to perform skills, skill shots, and combinations.
Category 2, situational awareness and reaction needed in order to play as perfectly as possible.

Rated from low, medium, high, very high.

Guardian:
1) low
2) high

Warrior:
1) low
2) medium

Engineer:
1) high
2) high

Ranger:
1) low
2) medium

Thief:
1) low
2) very high

Elementalist:
1) high
2) very high

Mesmer:
1) low
2) high

Necromancer:
1) low
2) medium

Granted those are just my opinions.

I’d say both Mesmer and rangers 1) should be bumped up to medium and rangers 2) should be medium/high because when you notice what your pets doing and react to that it can make you perform significantly better than a ranger who barely watches their pet.

I’d also say thieves 1) should be very low (they really don’t do MUCH in the APM category but my god do they have the highest requirement in the battlefield/position awareness).

All the others I think are about right.

Durzlla.6295:

I’d say both Mesmer and rangers 1) should be bumped up to medium and rangers 2) should be medium/high because when you notice what your pets doing and react to that it can make you perform significantly better than a ranger who barely watches their pet.

I’d also say thieves 1) should be very low (they really don’t do MUCH in the APM category but my god do they have the highest requirement in the battlefield/position awareness).

All the others I think are about right.

I just don’t agree based on my personal experience is all. I feel like managing the ranger pet in combat versus any of the other mechanics is just plain easier, except for warriors getting an extra attack when they get enough adrenaline.

All the mechanic does is F1, go attack, F2, do something specific, F3, come back you’re too hurt/I need you here and not over there, and F4, okay you’re about to die time to go or I need a different pet. I personally find it to be the least active, least engaging mechanic in the entire game. Again, just my personal opinion, but the only easier mechanic is warrior, and mesmers are in the same boat as rangers for me, you spawn a minion, and then you have 4 different things you can do with them while they do their own thing.

This is an extreme step down from how active even a beastmaster build was in Guild Wars 1, which had a plethora of different active pet skills and conditions and effects that also effected the player and etc.

Thieves mechanics are down there too, but at least they have a bunch of different effects they have to keep track of, and can use their mechanic more tactically like choosing it as either an opening or an offensive stun breaker, or even using a slight of hand build for boon stealing and interrupting.

Of course it’s just my opinion after playing all of the different classes and having 7/8 80s taken care of.

If I had to rank how easy each of the classes mechanics are to use from lowest to highest, it would be like:
Warrior
Guardian
Necromancer
Mesmer
Ranger
Thief
Engineer
Elementalist

So, I mean, mechanic evaluation alone, rangers have a mid to high difficulty tier for their mechanic alone when I evaluate them against other classes, but the disparity between difficulties of the mechanics alone isn’t very high to begin with imo.

So when you combine the pet with having some of the easiest weapon skills and utilities to use and to use effectively in the game, it ends up with how I ended up ranking the ranger.

I still think Warrior and Necro are easier to play than any other class though. And I do also believe that the level of difficulty between them and the ranger does have a lot of disparity, which is hard to reflect based on just rankings alone.

For me personally though, if I could combine the elementalist with a pet mechanic that moved and autoattacked, but that you had 3 additional skills you were in control of to use, that would be my ideal class. Without a class like that in this game, I find myself bored because I don’t always have enough to juggle or to do at a single time lol.

How is stealing and dual wield (thief) harder than the Rangers pet. To be a good ranger you need to not just learn to keep your pet alive you need to understand how the. ai works. K9’s don’t randomly do their kd’s. Learn how to move so your pet land more attacks.

People like to compare how good rangers in gw1 are but you cant really move and shoot while melee class can run and swing. That alone makes Rangers in Gw2 better.

While one may argue the merits of the Thumper ranger. A KD build is more than doable on a ranger in Gw2. Rangers don’t do gimmick build like the other classes.

When rangers run gimmick builds they do one thing. Like a Bleeder build or chill or regen. When other class do gimmick its. Stunlock crit or stealth blind or fear terror.

It takes more skill to play a Ranger that doesn’t mean it the player skill that is carrying the class. Its the lack of player skill that’s bring the class down.

Not learning the Ai for each pet type ( each pet reacts different they are not all the same) Not learning how to properly use your evades on your weapon (namely one handed sword).

I watched a ranked 49 ranger in spvp. I watched her because she was the faster ranger I had seen in my life. she didn’t die once in the 4 matches I watched her. She was running sword/dagger and Gs. All her damage was from her pets snow leopard and jaguar and she was kicking butt.

Personally I don’t like the play style (to much running away in spvp) but when people say that pets are useless I remember players like this who rely 100 percent on the pet and do more than very well. It tells my that its not that pets that are totally useless its the player blaming their short coming on the pet (they are not perfect but they are also not useless).

Using pets well is more than just using the 3 or 4 button on the pet control. If you think there nothing more ask yourself what is the diffence in ai behavior from bears and cats. If your answer is nothing you now know why you have problems with pets. You don’t understand the Ai.

The best way to describe how the ranger community uses pets is by trying to smash the square peg through the circle hole, they don’t want to learn the AI and utilize it to their advantage, they want the AI to bend to their will.

You don’t have to try to be insulting just because I have an opinion.

And yes, a trickery based thief is more difficult in my opinion because of it’s versatility. You have to know what you’re stealing, when to steal, at certain times, how to steal (for instance you can steal into a backstab provided you can hit the keys fast enough), when to use what you stole, when to use steal defensively versus offensively.

Micromanaging a pet in this game is child’s play in comparison to having to micromanage 3 different heroes in guild wars 1, or maybe I’m just good at micromanaging.

Regardless, it’s still my opinion, like I’ve said numerous times, that micromanaging the pet for me personally is easy.

And yes, every pet has a different AI, skillset, and skill priority. This is a very, very well known fact. The issue isn’t understanding the AI, it’s finding the managing of the AI to be a very boring endeavor.

Sorry for expressing my opinion.

Edit: And I never said pets were useless. I said I found the mechanic easy to use. I love the pet, I just wish that more micromanagement options were implemented so that players capable of a higher level of micromanagement ability would be able to have more control over their pet. I don’t see how it would be any more difficult than elementalist attunements or engineers kits/belt.

Let me give an example of why I think pets are easy. Keep in mind that I keep my pet on passive at all times.

So, I hit F1 to attack something, and then I wait. And wait. And wait. If I want to use an F2 skill, I watch for an animation to begin/end, and use the F2 at the right time to get the best pet response, and then let the pet go back to attacking, or switch pets appropriately if trying to pull a pet combo (a wolfs fear into a drakehounds KD for instance). And I wait. If my pet starts getting hurt or I want it to come back to me, I press F3. If I want it to reset its chase animation so it stops getting kited, I press F3 and then quickly F1 again. If its about to die and retreating doesn’t save it, I press F4.

During the time period that I’m managing the pet, there is a whole lot of inaction where I could still be doing something with that pet, but because of the simplistic controls, I am forced to be less active than I could possibly be.

Compared to a class like an elementalist or an engi where I’m constantly toggling and using skills the entire time so that there really is no period where I feel less active than I could be on my keyboard, its frustrating to go back to a ranger where I can be so much less active on the keyboard than I am on other classes, knowing that I could manage more than what the game lets me manage just because “it would be too hard for new players.”