Guild Wars 2

Hello folks,

I’m so glad that there’s so much GS discussion going on. It’s such a useful weapon, I’m happy that it’s getting a ton of love recently.

So of course in my infinite curiosity, I wanted to look at GS traits. Specifically, Nature Magic IX, “Two-Hand Mastery,” which increases GS damage by 5%.

Taken in vacuum, it’s a pretty nifty trait for any GS user. But in context, it’s not as useful for players trying to maximize GS damage, because it is a 20 point investment into the Nature Magic line, which adds no offensive stats and traits aside from Two-Hand Mastery (and the Vit -> Power trait, but that’s pretty minor so I’ma skip it.)

So we introduce the concept of opportunity cost. Putting 20 points into Nature Magic means 20 points less put into trees with offensive stats like Marksmanship and Skirmishing. Hence I did some quick calculations comparing what your damage looks like with 20 points in Marksmanship (200 power) vs 20 points in Skirmishing (200 precision, 20% crit dmg) vs 20 points in Nature Magic (5% dmg).

But Ursan, you’re silly, why can’t you just get them all?

A legit question. You can easily get 30/20/0/20/0 or 20/30/0/20/0 to basically max out the damage you can do with a GS. But from my experience, most people who use GS slot in 20 into Wilderness Survival for the 20% cd reduction trait (which, IMO, is far more useful than 5% more dmg). And many other players use GS in conjunction with a 30 point Beastmastery build. These calculations are mainly for people who have limited amount of trait points to spend, and want to decide how to maximize GS damage.

Also, on top of that, forgetting the traits for a moment, I wanted to see just how stats in general (power/precision/crit dmg) affect damage in different situations (you have high/low base power, high/low base precision, etc…)

Methodology

So I just assumed a base damage of 100. The actual number isn’t very important, since we’ll just be looking at how each trait combo modifies this number.

I then put in values for 6 different equipment sets: no equip, full Berserkers, Rampagers, Valkyrie, Carrion, and Rabid. I took the stats given by the equipment, and added on top of that the stats provided by the traits. Then did calculations to see how the damage was modified.

Results
None:
Marksman: 124
Skirmisher: 109
Nature: 107

Berserkers:
Marksman: 341
Skirmisher: 353
Nature: 324

Rampagers:
Marksman: 249
Skirmisher: 251
Nature: 232

Valkyrie:
Marksman: 243
Skirmisher: 251
Nature: 231

Carrion:
Marksman: 202
Skirmisher: 193
Nature: 189

Rabid:
Marksman: 144
Skirmisher: 132
Nature: 124

Thoughts and Disclaimers

1. First off, this is looking purely at the stats the traits add. Obviously there’s many, many more parameters that go into the decision of choosing to trait yourself. Are you a trap ranger, do you like opening strike (mmmeh), are you a spirit ranger (hahaha), etc. etc…

2. Anyways, from the numbers, it seems that the trait is absolutely not worth at all for that 20 point investment, unless you’re already investing in Nature Magic. Again, I have to repeat: in a vacuum, this trait seems nice, but if you’re looking to trait to increase GS damage, look to trait up the Marksmanship/Skirmisher trees first.

3. I feel like this is part of a bigger problem with Ranger trait design. It does not feel cohesive, with traits for condition damage (trap builds, bleed on crit, etc…) not being in the condition damage tree, and damage trait for GS being useless if you want to go a Nature Magic-less GS dps build. There’s just no synergy. I guess the devs have noted the problem, and we can only hope some kind of overhaul is coming.

4. One interesting thing to note, once you go beyond a certain point in power, adding more Precision/Crit Damage becomes more efficient than adding more power in terms of raw damage. For example, if you had full Zerkers gear, traiting into the Skirmisher’s tree will increase damage more than traiting into the Markmanship tree (again, ignoring the traits themselves.) Which makes sense.

Previous Research

Warrior Rifle vs Ranger Shortbow DPS tests
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Shortbow-vs-Warrior-Rifle-DPS-tests/first
Longbow vs Shortbow DPS calculations
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Shortbow-vs-Longbow-Damage-Calculations/first
Ranger Melee Weapon DPS tests
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Melee-Weapon-DPS-Tests/first

Your research gain my respect, sir!

I followed your every piece of study, thank you very much!

Ursan.7846:

3. I feel like this is part of a bigger problem with Ranger trait design. It does not feel cohesive, with traits for condition damage (trap builds, bleed on crit, etc…) not being in the condition damage tree, and damage trait for GS being useless if you want to go a Nature Magic-less GS dps build. There’s just no synergy. I guess the devs have noted the problem, and we can only hope some kind of overhaul is coming.

I think this is a problem with expectations than the design of the traits themselves. I’ll toss you a non-Ranger example here: Guardians have a trait in Valor (their toughness/tanky line) that increases damage from maces by 5% called Mace of Justice. Yes, that’s a damage trait in a defensive trait line, but I believe that’s not the point. The point is that it provides a buff to a weapon that tanky Guardians are most likely going to use, because the mace is the healing/defensive weapon, which coincides with the defensive trait line. Since traits can be swapped freely, it’s likely thrown in so that tanky Guardians can trait in some more damage when they feel that they need it.

That’s the same for Rangers. Greatsword is the tankiest and most defensive weapon they have, which is probably why their traits are put into Wilderness Survival and Nature Magic. It’s giving the boost to the trait lines that are the most likely to use the weapon.

What do you mean tankiest? mainhand sword is supremely more useful for a bunker/tank build than greatsword will ever be.

Zenith.7301:

What do you mean tankiest? mainhand sword is supremely more useful for a bunker/tank build than greatsword will ever be.

Both are good for tank builds. Greatsword has a block, an evade in a chain and a stun. Sword (with Dagger) has an evade, a leap back (not quite an evade) and an offhand evade (Dagger).

In fact, I would say if a Ranger were to go full-blown tank build, they should run both weapon sets.

Regarding the 4th observation: at what point does more crit/crit damage become better to stack than more power?

Zenith.7301:

What do you mean tankiest? mainhand sword is supremely more useful for a bunker/tank build than greatsword will ever be.

To add on to the above: This can certainly be debated, but the point seems moot to me, considering that main-hand sword is also in Wilderness Survival.

Grakor.3450:

Ursan.7846:

3. I feel like this is part of a bigger problem with Ranger trait design. It does not feel cohesive, with traits for condition damage (trap builds, bleed on crit, etc…) not being in the condition damage tree, and damage trait for GS being useless if you want to go a Nature Magic-less GS dps build. There’s just no synergy. I guess the devs have noted the problem, and we can only hope some kind of overhaul is coming.

I think this is a problem with expectations than the design of the traits themselves. I’ll toss you a non-Ranger example here: Guardians have a trait in Valor (their toughness/tanky line) that increases damage from maces by 5% called Mace of Justice. Yes, that’s a damage trait in a defensive trait line, but I believe that’s not the point. The point is that it provides a buff to a weapon that tanky Guardians are most likely going to use, because the mace is the healing/defensive weapon, which coincides with the defensive trait line. Since traits can be swapped freely, it’s likely thrown in so that tanky Guardians can trait in some more damage when they feel that they need it.

That’s the same for Rangers. Greatsword is the tankiest and most defensive weapon they have, which is probably why their traits are put into Wilderness Survival and Nature Magic. It’s giving the boost to the trait lines that are the most likely to use the weapon.

That’s a very good point actually. After reading your post, it actually makes sense and goes in line with (what I believe) is Anet’s philosophy. That pure healing is obsolete in this game and even if you want to build tanky, you still need to contribute to DPS.

deepwinter.9015:

Zenith.7301:

What do you mean tankiest? mainhand sword is supremely more useful for a bunker/tank build than greatsword will ever be.

Both are good for tank builds. Greatsword has a block, an evade in a chain and a stun. Sword (with Dagger) has an evade, a leap back (not quite an evade) and an offhand evade (Dagger).

In fact, I would say if a Ranger were to go full-blown tank build, they should run both weapon sets.

Regarding the 4th observation: at what point does more crit/crit damage become better to stack than more power?

GS gets a non CD evade it is superior defensively to sword from continuos over time assault and against missile fire burst over a short period.

Sword – is superior in terms of evading burst damage because it gives you 2 on demand evades, 3 with dagger whereas GS gets a single block. Sword can also add in missile deflection instead of the additional evade plus vulnerability stacking. Sword is also superior in being able to double leap inside one healing spring duration. ( the on demand aspect makes it better for pvp IMHO)

Agree with your assessment and also always looked at the traits were they were as tank offensive increases. They make perfect sense from that point of view.

In fact go 5 more into nature and get 5% additional damage for you and your pet with a boon up. And if you actually use spirits you can have 100% boon up uptime 50% for protection and 100% swiftness. And the final traits in nature which we aren’t crazy about let you strip poison – healing debuff on dodge or take your spirits with you.

In some ways it may also be for pve aggro management.