Guild Wars 2

Without the stealth (but keeping Super Speed) what do trappers need to survive? I have limited experience with this playstyle and could use some help.

If you run full traps, you are quite vulnerable to CC and condi yourself because you have no stunbreaks or on-demand condition removal. You don’t really need Power or Precision though, so you can run Dire gear and make yourself quite tanky. PvP things become harder because you don’t have that stat set. What game mode are you referring to?

You could run Druid trapper with something like this though.

Okay just as I thought. I wanted to make sure I didn’t miss something. Thanks!

Also depends on the weaponset. If you’re Axe/Dagger and Sword/Torch, with Quickdraw you can double evasive capabilities essentially, but the downside, especially game mode dependent, is the lack of range.

I’m also one of those people that sees the value of spike trap but doesn’t think it’s necessary. I would run Flame/Viper and leave the last slot for either Signet of Renewal or Lightning Reflexes, but that is trait dependent and also playstle preference, because if you want to run full traps, go for it, it is strong and hyper offensive, but the tradeoffs do exist.

Trappers are extremely vulnerable to CC and conditions. Running anything less than 3 traps is actually pretty harmful to your damage so it’s best to go all out with a full bar.

Treat it like a game of keep away if you’re playing trapper. You don’t want to constantly (although sometimes it is necessary) try to bomb people with all 3 traps. Traps are good for area denial and if you’re smart about how you drop them you can effectively keep people, maybe besides Thieves, from ever getting close enough to you to hit you. Kite around the traps you drop and try to avoid going melee unless you’re certain you can handle the pressure. Shortbow and/or axe are a good idea to use with trapper builds.

Don’t spam traps mindlessly. Don’t constantly try to 3 trap nuke. Don’t drop a trap and immediately move far away from it. And don’t risk tanking CC or conditions if you know your target has enough of it to really hurt you (hammer Warrior or condition Necromancer for example).

I’d say as an example, imagine you have a gun in one hand and a lot of broken glass in a bag in the other hand. You have someone who’s trying to stab you. You want to spread that glass evenly in front of you while shooting to keep them away. Do a bit of a dance around the glass and if you’re crafty enough maybe you can even do full circle to push them through it.

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

lxghostxl.5097:

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

Please show us this build you keep spouting.

So are you only planning on 4 runes of the trapper then? Or 5? I’m just curious what you plan on doing with the last 1 or 2 rune slots.

Rashagar.8349:

So are you only planning on 4 runes of the trapper then? Or 5? I’m just curious what you plan on doing with the last 1 or 2 rune slots.

Working on my Ranger overhaul post and needed some advice. Even though it’ll probably be ignored

[quote=5586109;Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:]

[quote=5586109;Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:]

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

Please show us this build you keep spouting.

I too would like to see this.

Err, I think you left out some of the quote.

Edit: Found it in there. You just left out a bit of the quote code.

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

Please show us this build you keep spouting.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAT8YjEqQNLWyCOsAVLGIEqdHCAcBc6rePvteMkwtMcN-TZRAwAAeIAUuAAGOCA92fQdZAA

Combo is common sense so figure it out.

Edit again: Wow, you actually made the claim that this is the best Ranger DPS. My question is, how could you think that?

I’ve played rampager ranger for the last couple o days and so far I found it to be the only amulet that let greatsword + shortbow work well together.
My latest build is something like this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJARVnEqA9CitsAOsAUtgBDh63ibPn739EaBOAG9GokddA-TpBFwAFOEAu3fIwRAwxFAAwDA4aZAA

(sometimes swap for double raven, two handed training and taunt, still not 100% sure whats optimal, zephyr speed is an absolute blast for bursting people down with both weapons.)

speaking for pvp nly as trapper in pve and wvw is useless, you can make it work with 3. basically just sit on a point all day long. I would run settlers. Drop all 3 traps and then wait for someone to run into them. then drop all 3 on them again.

you should just be sitting on the point all day long and denying anyone that tries to come in. in groups you can also help a lot because of all the aoe.

it’s true you have zero stunbreaks and basically no condi cleanse (healing spring alone) but it shouldn’t matter too much if you place your traps poperly and use your evades and leaps.

that being said traps are a garbage build right now. they were barely adequate back when trapper runes were a thing and even then really just for 1v1s. I’ve been using a modified version of the old survival of the fittest condi ranger which is by far our best build. tke spike trap instead of sharpening stone as troll unguent is now a survival. the trap is pretty amazing for helping you land your entangle and pet F2.

Settlers Ammy
Healing spring – lightning reflexes – flame trap – (spike or snake depending on what you’re doing) – entangle

Use A/D and S/T.

You don’t need a full bar of traps because bonfire and cleansing from LR, Entangle and healing spring will pretty much neuter most condi builds except burn guard and even then you just have to last through their cleanse and then they’re dead.

A full bar of traps is a complete waste.

It’s not garbage. I’ve never been killed by short bow rangers in my life. Period.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Err, I think you left out some of the quote.

Edit: Found it in there. You just left out a bit of the quote code.

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

Please show us this build you keep spouting.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAT8YjEqQNLWyCOsAVLGIEqdHCAcBc6rePvteMkwtMcN-TZRAwAAeIAUuAAGOCA92fQdZAA

Combo is common sense so figure it out.

Edit again: Wow, you actually made the claim that this is the best Ranger DPS. My question is, how could you think that?

I said better than trapprr and safer. Please show a higher dps for ranger that does not take your deffensive skills away. At least this build have mobility, constant condi for targets that hqve immunity to psychical damage and allot of pressure in battle that both work for skill 5 + sharpening stone and entangle for team fight aoe damage without bing the punching bag.

Zatoichi.1049:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

Please show us this build you keep spouting.

I too would like to see this.

Simple build is up. It is based on bleed, poison vulnerability. Basic thing is to keep auto attack to stack some bleed to pressure target on using cleanse early and use dodge until they pop cleanse use skill 2 with sharpening stone, if target id at 40 pecent pop zyphir with sharpening stone should kill them if you want to make sure they die or not use cleanse add skill 4 on lb since it will be whole amount of your skill 2 + bleed stack damage of 1.7 to 2k per sec and you still have your entangle and poison + bleed on s/d for deffensive and continues condi. When I entangle is doing n and you need full skil 2 damage use pet that will snare them first. If your target already used all cleanse you can do full combo of skill 2+sharpening stone+zyphir then knock back skill 4. That time you will still have quickness then drop entangle then skill 5. Should be sure kill even on tank war or guard in 4 to 6 sec. If your lucky pet shoots poison then should be faster. Earth sigil and from trait does work with each other that sometimes put 2 bleeds in per crit.

Btw a/d or a/t is not an option for me because itttakes away mobility, deffensive skill like ddge from s/d and invis fom LB skill 3 and beside mid range skill like axe does not give the amount of normal damage lb and s/d can do. Ive used this build for a long long time and never seen it becomes useless but I do switch to other condi build when I get bored.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Err, I think you left out some of the quote.

Edit: Found it in there. You just left out a bit of the quote code.

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

Please show us this build you keep spouting.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAT8YjEqQNLWyCOsAVLGIEqdHCAcBc6rePvteMkwtMcN-TZRAwAAeIAUuAAGOCA92fQdZAA

Combo is common sense so figure it out.

Edit again: Wow, you actually made the claim that this is the best Ranger DPS. My question is, how could you think that?

This pro needs to provide higher dps than my build with LB.

As a power trapper (yea weird build) I would say the biggest weakness is stability/stun-breaker. Conditions can be difficult depending on the specialization you take. Without the ability to go invisible so often I imagine you might need some ability to soak up damage since you will be visible more often and therefore more open to attack.

I am wondering why you are taking trapper runes but not going for the full set (not saying it isn’t viable), is it because you don’t like that traps triggered reveal you? I find even though traps knock me out of stealth that it is still super useful.

I run full bezerker gear with 4 traps (spring, flame, viper, spike) and strength of the pack (need some stability :P) longbow and greatsword. Marksman (for longbow pierce), Skirmishing (for cripple on traps), Wilderness Survival (for 3 conditions cleared every 10 seconds).

Edit: Forgot to explain my playstyle >_<. I normally stay in longbow and use traps stealth/speed to re-position to stay away from my opponent (keep away like someone else said). If i feel I’m running out of escapes/knockbacks I use my elite to get stabs up so I don’t get stunned. Also switch to sword to block ranged projectiles and for leap to kite.

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Err, I think you left out some of the quote.

Edit: Found it in there. You just left out a bit of the quote code.

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

Please show us this build you keep spouting.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAT8YjEqQNLWyCOsAVLGIEqdHCAcBc6rePvteMkwtMcN-TZRAwAAeIAUuAAGOCA92fQdZAA

Combo is common sense so figure it out.

Edit again: Wow, you actually made the claim that this is the best Ranger DPS. My question is, how could you think that?

I said better than trapprr and safer. Please show a higher dps for ranger that does not take your deffensive skills away. At least this build have mobility, constant condi for targets that hqve immunity to psychical damage and allot of pressure in battle that both work for skill 5 + sharpening stone and entangle for team fight aoe damage without bing the punching bag.

You didn’t say trapper and safer, you claimed it was the highest dps build.

Most players are not aware but the highest dps build for rangers is Longbow Condi, A/D or A/T. and this build can compare about the same to an Ele burst combo/Guard just not require to be up close, and have allot of cleanse.
even tho we can do this, rangers are still not liked in dungeons.

But, it isn’t. I’m not saying its a bad build, but its not as you claim.

lxghostxl.5097:

This pro needs to provide higher dps than my build with LB.

Zerker with damage traits.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Err, I think you left out some of the quote.

Edit: Found it in there. You just left out a bit of the quote code.

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Dont run trapper just go LB condi.

Please show us this build you keep spouting.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAT8YjEqQNLWyCOsAVLGIEqdHCAcBc6rePvteMkwtMcN-TZRAwAAeIAUuAAGOCA92fQdZAA

Combo is common sense so figure it out.

Edit again: Wow, you actually made the claim that this is the best Ranger DPS. My question is, how could you think that?

I said better than trapprr and safer. Please show a higher dps for ranger that does not take your deffensive skills away. At least this build have mobility, constant condi for targets that hqve immunity to psychical damage and allot of pressure in battle that both work for skill 5 + sharpening stone and entangle for team fight aoe damage without bing the punching bag.

You didn’t say trapper and safer, you claimed it was the highest dps build.

Most players are not aware but the highest dps build for rangers is Longbow Condi, A/D or A/T. and this build can compare about the same to an Ele burst combo/Guard just not require to be up close, and have allot of cleanse.
even tho we can do this, rangers are still not liked in dungeons.

But, it isn’t. I’m not saying its a bad build, but its not as you claim.

lxghostxl.5097:

This pro needs to provide higher dps than my build with LB.

Zerker with damage traits.

Zerker with traits is not enough and have a huge delay of 8 sec and no matter what you add auto damage will only add couple of points. The while the bleed stay longer and constant over 1.5k lowest with just sharpening stone.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

As a power trapper (yea weird build) I would say the biggest weakness is stability/stun-breaker. Conditions can be difficult depending on the specialization you take. Without the ability to go invisible so often I imagine you might need some ability to soak up damage since you will be visible more often and therefore more open to attack.

I am wondering why you are taking trapper runes but not going for the full set (not saying it isn’t viable), is it because you don’t like that traps triggered reveal you? I find even though traps knock me out of stealth that it is still super useful.

I run full bezerker gear with 4 traps (spring, flame, viper, spike) and strength of the pack (need some stability :P) longbow and greatsword. Marksman (for longbow pierce), Skirmishing (for cripple on traps), Wilderness Survival (for 3 conditions cleared every 10 seconds).

Edit: Forgot to explain my playstyle >_<. I normally stay in longbow and use traps stealth/speed to re-position to stay away from my opponent (keep away like someone else said). If i feel I’m running out of escapes/knockbacks I use my elite to get stabs up so I don’t get stunned. Also switch to sword to block ranged projectiles and for leap to kite.

Good play but have a lot f down time on dps. I used to play trapper but different play style. Problem is countering a good thief and burst guardian condi.

Hey guys thanks for all the feedback. It helped a lot with my suggestion. Please try to remain civil. I’m well aware many of you have different builds that probably work for all of you but just keep two thinks in mind;

1. People using different tactics for different goals can find different build better.
2. None of it matter cuz you’re on a Ranger in the first place and therefore already losing! muwahahaha

PS. I’m kidding

PPS. No I’m not.

Edit: This isn’t actually an edit. I’m a liar. Also, stay on topic!

Castaliea.3156:

Hey guys thanks for all the feedback. It helped a lot with my suggestion. Please try to remain civil. I’m well aware many of you have different builds that probably work for all of you but just keep two thinks in mind;

1. People using different tactics for different goals can find different build better.
2. None of it matter cuz you’re on a Ranger in the first place and therefore already losing! muwahahaha

PS. I’m kidding

PPS. No I’m not.

Edit: This isn’t actually an edit. I’m a liar. Also, stay on topic!

dont worry we are still civil just got off the track and talked about the dps side of things which works better. losing isn’t an issue since there are counter builds out there but play style all differs on the experience on playing Ranger. I just wanted to share my build and see if you might like it since it is very high dps and can even kill beast very fast also good damage help for team even in dungeons or wvw. I just answered that guy on top why this build is high in damage and I can’t believe he would even ask why I think it is the highest dps on LB and best play like snipers. it is good that you ask opinions and that way you might also come up with your own original build. adv. happy thanks giving.

lxghostxl.5097:

…I just answered that guy on top why this build is high in damage and I can’t believe he would even ask why I think it is the highest dps on LB and best play like snipers…

You made a claim that condi LB is the best DPS a Ranger can do, which evidently, it is not, so I asked you to prove your claim. The reason I ask why you think it is the best dps, is because it is not and you are merely operating from gut-feeling, rather than mathematical fact. I like condi LB, its a fun way to play, but its not the best dps.
If you actually calculate it out, this will prove it to you, but even then a lot of your bleed stacks will just be cleared and you totally lose that damage.

Not trying to be offensive.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

…I just answered that guy on top why this build is high in damage and I can’t believe he would even ask why I think it is the highest dps on LB and best play like snipers…

You made a claim that condi LB is the best DPS a Ranger can do, which evidently, it is not, so I asked you to prove your claim. The reason I ask why you think it is the best dps, is because it is not and you are merely operating from gut-feeling, rather than mathematical fact. I like condi LB, its a fun way to play, but its not the best dps.
If you actually calculate it out, this will prove it to you, but even then a lot of your bleed stacks will just be cleared and you totally lose that damage.

Not trying to be offensive.

Oh lol! Math u say? Please then show me ur highest dps build and stop making assertion. Ya it can be cleanse but normal crt drops bleed 2x and u eont need full 20+ bleeds to get constant high dps 7 is the enough, I am sure now that you have no idea about this build I use and the reason why it keeps constant pressure and high dps. Please as I asked before what is your high dps build.

Not gonna play around so unless you are a main ranger not just claim I dont have to explain or even give you calculation because all you have to do is try they build. I can assure you that there is no other build out therr that can kill as fast and do as much dps lb condi can do safer and flexible. For you to worry about enemies cleanse show how little u know about the build I use or even on playing the with common sense. I can stack 15 might to add for condi damage and physical damage from trait line if you don’t knw yet.

Mate, you were the one that made the claim that Condi LB does the highest DPS available, so the burden of truth is on you. But fine, whatever, I’ll do the math after work and put it here for you.

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

…I just answered that guy on top why this build is high in damage and I can’t believe he would even ask why I think it is the highest dps on LB and best play like snipers…

You made a claim that condi LB is the best DPS a Ranger can do, which evidently, it is not, so I asked you to prove your claim. The reason I ask why you think it is the best dps, is because it is not and you are merely operating from gut-feeling, rather than mathematical fact. I like condi LB, its a fun way to play, but its not the best dps.
If you actually calculate it out, this will prove it to you, but even then a lot of your bleed stacks will just be cleared and you totally lose that damage.

Not trying to be offensive.

Oh lol! Math u say? Please then show me ur highest dps build and stop making assertion. Ya it can be cleanse but normal crt drops bleed 2x and u eont need full 20+ bleeds to get constant high dps 7 is the enough, I am sure now that you have no idea about this build I use and the reason why it keeps constant pressure and high dps. Please as I asked before what is your high dps build.

Not gonna play around so unless you are a main ranger not just claim I dont have to explain or even give you calculation because all you have to do is try they build. I can assure you that there is no other build out therr that can kill as fast and do as much dps lb condi can do safer and flexible. For you to worry about enemies cleanse show how little u know about the build I use or even on playing the with common sense. I can stack 15 might to add for condi damage and physical damage from trait line if you don’t knw yet.

As requested.

For purposes of this dps comparison we will use LRS at max range for 60 shots, which is a 60s time frame. Devourers like you used for the Rampager build are weak compared to Smokescale right now so pets were not included in the damage. Refined Toxins was also not included as I took MDG into account, since you talked about having 15 might, the two do not work together. I also did not take into account the Enlargement buff that you would get when dropping below 50% health, because both builds use it and it would have been too hard to calculate it exactly, it favors Zerker, but I’ve assumed they just cancel each other out. I did the same with QZ.

Conclusion: Zerker builds do more damage than Rampager, all things being equal by near 25% on medium armor targets. This % will drop some by hitting heavy armor, but
not by a great margin. Zerk then will do a lot more damage to light armor. This is assuming no conditions are cleansed.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

…I just answered that guy on top why this build is high in damage and I can’t believe he would even ask why I think it is the highest dps on LB and best play like snipers…

You made a claim that condi LB is the best DPS a Ranger can do, which evidently, it is not, so I asked you to prove your claim. The reason I ask why you think it is the best dps, is because it is not and you are merely operating from gut-feeling, rather than mathematical fact. I like condi LB, its a fun way to play, but its not the best dps.
If you actually calculate it out, this will prove it to you, but even then a lot of your bleed stacks will just be cleared and you totally lose that damage.

Not trying to be offensive.

Oh lol! Math u say? Please then show me ur highest dps build and stop making assertion. Ya it can be cleanse but normal crt drops bleed 2x and u eont need full 20+ bleeds to get constant high dps 7 is the enough, I am sure now that you have no idea about this build I use and the reason why it keeps constant pressure and high dps. Please as I asked before what is your high dps build.

Not gonna play around so unless you are a main ranger not just claim I dont have to explain or even give you calculation because all you have to do is try they build. I can assure you that there is no other build out therr that can kill as fast and do as much dps lb condi can do safer and flexible. For you to worry about enemies cleanse show how little u know about the build I use or even on playing the with common sense. I can stack 15 might to add for condi damage and physical damage from trait line if you don’t knw yet.

As requested.

For purposes of this dps comparison we will use LRS at max range for 60 shots, which is a 60s time frame. Devourers like you used for the Rampager build are weak compared to Smokescale right now so pets were not included in the damage. Refined Toxins was also not included as I took MDG into account, since you talked about having 15 might, the two do not work together. I also did not take into account the Enlargement buff that you would get when dropping below 50% health, because both builds use it and it would have been too hard to calculate it exactly, it favors Zerker, but I’ve assumed they just cancel each other out. I did the same with QZ.

Rampager/Krait Damage

hide spoiler

Your build
Rampager @ 15 might = 1525 condi damage, 2350 power
Bleed = 136 dps

Damage done = (1080) * 2350 * (0.9) / (2200) = 1038

Rampager crit chance

• 60 strikes @ 61% crit chance = 37 critical strikes

Sigil of Earth

• 60% chance on 37 crits = 22 (must be lower than 30 for CD)
• 22 × 8 × 136 = 24153

Critical Damge

• 37 x (1038×1.5) = 38406

Power Damage

• 23 × 1038 = 23874

Sharpened Edges

• 66% chance to cause bleed = 24 procs = 24 × 5s = 16320 total damage

Sharpening Stone

• 2 × 5 × 10s bleeds = 100 × 136 = 13600

Entangle

• 5 × 13s bleeds = 65 × 136 = 8840

Krait

• Bleed 1 × 12, Poison 1 × 8, Torment 1 × 8 = 3312

Total damage over 60s

• 38406 + 23874 + 16320 + 6800 + 8840 + 3312 + 24153 = 128,505

Zerker/Pack Damage

hide spoiler

Zerker/Pack build
Zerker @ 15 might = 2825 power

Damage done

• (1080) * 2825 * (0.9) / (2200) = 1248

Zerker/Pack crit chance

• 60 strikes @ 60% chance = 36 crits

Sigil of Air

• 50% chance on 36 crits = 18 (must be lower than 20 for CD)
• 18 x (1080 * (2825 * 1.1) / 2200) = 27459
• This surprised me as it is very close to the Earth Sigil in damage.

Sigil of Fire

• 50% chance on 36 crits = 18 (must be 12 or lower for CD, 12 used)
• 12 x ((1080 * (2825 * 1.1) / 2200) = 9402

Critical damage

• (36-10) x (1248 * 2.1) = 68140

Power damage

• 24 × 1248 = 29952

Remorseless Damage

• Total of 10 procs, all being criticals. = 10 x (1248 * 2.1 * 1.25) = 32760

Total Damage over 60s

• 27459 + 9402 + 68140 + 29952 + 32760 = 167,713

Conclusion: Zerker builds do more damage than Rampager, all things being equal by near 25% on medium armor targets. This % will drop some by hitting heavy armor, but
not by a great margin. Zerk then will do a lot more damage to light armor. This is assuming no conditions are cleansed.

I knew it. U had no idea or even know how to calculate damage. First dont make things up about new pet we dont know yet their final stat and that will onlymake my build allot stronger. 2nd u miss the part where I get 80 percent crit from trait line fury and 2condi remove on survival skill use. 3rd your calculations are cut in 3 half. I guess its expected because u run zerk lol. You need to learn how to calculate specially dps that u think a + 200 base damage can do more from one with 200 lesser but have 800+ damage addition after 2sec and stay perma as long as you keep the same target. Your conclusion is like saying a guardian zerk is stronger than condi guard in terms of dps. You really need to try my build and use combo then talk and nt speculate so you don’t fail that math. I have tried zerk tons of time and now I invitd you to try mine. In terms of burst I can kill beast like svanir in 4 sec or less. And damage wise more.

lxghostxl.5097:

I knew it. U had no idea or even know how to calculate damage. First dont make things up about new pet we dont know yet their final stat and that will onlymake my build allot stronger. 2nd u miss the part where I get 80 percent crit from trait line fury and 2condi remove on survival skill use. 3rd your calculations are cut in 3 half. I guess its expected because u run zerk lol. You need to learn how to calculate specially dps that u think a + 200 base damage can do more from one with 200 lesser but have 800+ damage addition after 2sec and stay perma as long as you keep the same target. Your conclusion is like saying a guardian zerk is stronger than condi guard in terms of dps. You really need to try my build and use combo then talk and nt speculate so you don’t fail that math. I have tried zerk tons of time and now I invitd you to try mine. In terms of burst I can kill beast like svanir in 4 sec or less. And damage wise more.

Ixghostxl, with all due respect, you are incorrect, and at this point you are making nobody but yourself look bad. Heimskarl took the time out of his day to provide you with the calculations—which you should have been the one to do, I might add, since you are defending it. Fury was not accounted for in either build, you may have noticed—you may argue that Fury will provide a significantly greater impact on YOUR build, but you have not given any proof. I have no idea why you even mentioned condition cleansing, which has nothing to do with pure DPS calculations. Provide your own calculations and/or video and stop insulting other players for their playstyle preferences.

Please also consider that other players run condition removal skills, which negate a significant portion of your damage by 100%. You can reapply conditions, but if you rely on Sharpening Stone for heavy bleed stacking, you must wait the full cooldown.

Additionally, pet stats are not linked to the ranger. All pets will provide the same bonuses to the ranger, regardless of the ranger’s build—the only changes are from investment in the Beastmastery line.

My apologies for OP for how this topic has gone off the rails. I hope you are still getting useful information from some of the replies.

I played Rampager Condi LB for the 1st 4 months of the game, then I tried Zerker, will never go back.

I’m not making things up about the new pet, I specifically didn’t include it because it can do 27k damage with its one attack, orders of magnitude more than a devourer.

If you had read my build, you would see that both builds have the same amount of fury, so I didn’t bother including it. I also didn’t bother with exact crit numbers for the zerk Remorseless setup, being guaranteed crits and also adding 5% more damage for the next kittens, there would probably be more, figured I would err on the side of the Rampager for your sake.

Go look up damage and damage calculation on the wiki, its all explained there in simple to understand terms, don’t worry, you’ll figure it out eventually.

See I was misguided too, once. See my 100% crit chance Rampager LB Condi Trap build that I used to use before I found zerker.

Scrimschaw.5784:

My apologies for OP for how this topic has gone off the rails. I hope you are still getting useful information from some of the replies.

I got what I needed long ago. I just wish my Ranger Overhaul got as much attention as this one. Although I’m glad no one is arguing over this on that too lol.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I played Rampager Condi LB for the 1st 4 months of the game, then I tried Zerker, will never go back.

I’m not making things up about the new pet, I specifically didn’t include it because it can do 27k damage with its one attack, orders of magnitude more than a devourer.

If you had read my build, you would see that both builds have the same amount of fury, so I didn’t bother including it. I also didn’t bother with exact crit numbers for the zerk Remorseless setup, being guaranteed crits and also adding 5% more damage for the next kittens, there would probably be more, figured I would err on the side of the Rampager for your sake.

Go look up damage and damage calculation on the wiki, its all explained there in simple to understand terms, don’t worry, you’ll figure it out eventually.

See I was misguided too, once. See my 100% crit chance Rampager LB Condi Trap build that I used to use before I found zerker.

Ya it was simple and itshows I am doing twice dps from physical and condi damage per sec and I know he pets very well and damage can be done. Mypet choice are cc based for classes that are pro dodger and additional bleed stack if required for the burst. Condi had allot to add for dps and if you want pm me here and I can prove the difference and equivalent of dps on my build and yours if you don’t want t try it yourself. Zerk build for ranger lb does not have the same amount of damage to condi bleed stack. Like I said before you have only dps from physical damage and the difference is only a couple of physical power while lb condi has average physical + condi. Your damage resource is 1 while I have 1+1. That is why your calculations are off. Read the meaning of dps again and you say you’ve run it for 4 months but you still did not see the difference ? You should know that just from skill 2 lb condi does more damage against your build with skill 2.

lxghostxl.5097:

Ya it was simple and itshows I am doing twice dps from physical and condi damage per sec and I know he pets very well and damage can be done. Mypet choice are cc based for classes that are pro dodger and additional bleed stack if required for the burst. Condi had allot to add for dps and if you want pm me here and I can prove the difference and equivalent of dps on my build and yours if you don’t want t try it yourself. Zerk build for ranger lb does not have the same amount of damage to condi bleed stack. Like I said before you have only dps from physical damage and the difference is only a couple of physical power while lb condi has average physical + condi. Your damage resource is 1 while I have 1+1. That is why your calculations are off. Read the meaning of dps again and you say you’ve run it for 4 months but you still did not see the difference ? You should know that just from skill 2 lb condi does more damage against your build with skill 2.

I’ll just leave this here for you again.

Mate, I put all the calculations for every application of condition damage you can get with that build of yours, in 1 minute of straight attacking, right there in my post up there, if you don’t want to read it and continue deluding yourself, that’s fine, but I’m done with this. GLHF.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

Ya it was simple and itshows I am doing twice dps from physical and condi damage per sec and I know he pets very well and damage can be done. Mypet choice are cc based for classes that are pro dodger and additional bleed stack if required for the burst. Condi had allot to add for dps and if you want pm me here and I can prove the difference and equivalent of dps on my build and yours if you don’t want t try it yourself. Zerk build for ranger lb does not have the same amount of damage to condi bleed stack. Like I said before you have only dps from physical damage and the difference is only a couple of physical power while lb condi has average physical + condi. Your damage resource is 1 while I have 1+1. That is why your calculations are off. Read the meaning of dps again and you say you’ve run it for 4 months but you still did not see the difference ? You should know that just from skill 2 lb condi does more damage against your build with skill 2.

I’ll just leave this here for you again.

Rampager/Krait Damage

hide spoiler

Your build
Rampager @ 15 might = 1525 condi damage, 2350 power
Bleed = 136 dps

Damage done = (1080) * 2350 * (0.9) / (2200) = 1038

Rampager crit chance

• 60 strikes @ 61% crit chance = 37 critical strikes

Sigil of Earth

• 60% chance on 37 crits = 22 (must be lower than 30 for CD)
• 22 × 8 × 136 = 24153

Critical Damge

• 37 x (1038×1.5) = 38406

Power Damage

• 23 × 1038 = 23874

Sharpened Edges

• 66% chance to cause bleed = 24 procs = 24 × 5s = 16320 total damage

Sharpening Stone

• 2 × 5 × 10s bleeds = 100 × 136 = 13600

Entangle

• 5 × 13s bleeds = 65 × 136 = 8840

Krait

• Bleed 1 × 12, Poison 1 × 8, Torment 1 × 8 = 3312

Total damage over 60s

• 38406 + 23874 + 16320 + 6800 + 8840 + 3312 + 24153 = 128,505

Zerker/Pack Damage

hide spoiler

Zerker/Pack build
Zerker @ 15 might = 2825 power

Damage done

• (1080) * 2825 * (0.9) / (2200) = 1248

Zerker/Pack crit chance

• 60 strikes @ 60% chance = 36 crits

Sigil of Air

• 50% chance on 36 crits = 18 (must be lower than 20 for CD)
• 18 x (1080 * (2825 * 1.1) / 2200) = 27459
• This surprised me as it is very close to the Earth Sigil in damage.

Sigil of Fire

• 50% chance on 36 crits = 18 (must be 12 or lower for CD, 12 used)
• 12 x ((1080 * (2825 * 1.1) / 2200) = 9402

Critical damage

• (36-10) x (1248 * 2.1) = 68140

Power damage

• 24 × 1248 = 29952

Remorseless Damage

• Total of 10 procs, all being criticals. = 10 x (1248 * 2.1 * 1.25) = 32760

Total Damage over 60s

• 27459 + 9402 + 68140 + 29952 + 32760 = 167,713

Mate, I put all the calculations for every application of condition damage you can get with that build of yours, in 1 minute of straight attacking, right there in my post up there, if you don’t want to read it and continue deluding yourself, that’s fine, but I’m done with this. GLHF.

What cd on sigil of Earth or trait? And condi damage of 136 per sec? 5sec bleed? With traits? Have u checked the trait and the bonus damage and increase duration? Did you go even calculated the skill cd and damage burst when applied? Have you actually even tried the build? Why dont you try the build and check your combat log and calculate it there too and then look at your zerk overall dps.

I don’t believe the OP said what format of play. Having said that these come about every so often with similar results. Some hate them, some love them, some are middle ground, others say why bother. Note to everyone, not everyone rolls meta builds. Crazy as that may sound, it is true.

Trap runes are not viable in sPvP – they don’t exist.
They are in PvE and WvW.

PvE is mostly a zerk play ground today, and probably will come expansion. So, they are not really ideal.

WvW, they work. Most don’t like the way they work post June 23rd patch because you now have to set rather than toss in any direction. Me, it doesn’t matter which way they are, they work fine the way they are for most WvW formats. Solo, HAVOC, and even Zerg.

They give you stealth, speed, and CC. They allow you for the most part ways to reset the fight. Basic condition build focus. I run LB, Axe, and Torch because I like the range vs. some classes. SB also works if you want to spool up some quick bleed and in a small HAVOC group for those trying to disengage or run away. Spike trap is great. You typically are placing traps now to use has kiting tools or escape routes for you or you and your team. No more than using healing spring has a safe run-to spot for a quick regen.

Trap builds in WvW won’t put someone down as quick as a glass build. However, they do give you more survival. It really comes down to your comfort level and play style. For me, trapper runes and conditions are a good combo for what I do and don’t limit my ability to win vs. any classes if “I” play well.

lxghostxl.5097:

What cd on sigil of Earth or trait? And condi damage of 136 per sec? 5sec bleed? With traits? Have u checked the trait and the bonus damage and increase duration? Did you go even calculated the skill cd and damage burst when applied? Have you actually even tried the build? Why dont you try the build and check your combat log and calculate it there too and then look at your zerk overall dps.

2s CD on Earth Sigil, so over the duration, it could proc 30 times possibly, but statistically that will not happen. Its 60% chance to proc on a 61% chance to crit over 60 hits, 0.6x(0.61×60) which ends up being 21 times. I rounded up to 22.

With 1525 condition damage (Rampager with 15 might) and Hidden Barbs, bleeding will do ((0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22) * 1.2 = 136.2 dps

Sharpened Edges is a 3s bleed, base. Krait runes give +45%, Agony Sigil gives +20%, 45% + 25% = 65%. 3 × 1.65 = 4.95, I rounded up to 5s.

I don’t need to test the burst because that will 100% most definetly be in favor of the Zerker, I already said I have tried the build for months, until I found out zerker was more damage in a far shorter duration. Not only that, but a large portion of the damage cannot be cleansed and deal 0%.

There is no point calculating builds with so many chance variables in-game, it must be done mathematically to find the most likely scenario. I’m no mathematician though, I may have done things incorrectly, but welcome those being pointed out if I have erred, assuming people go about it without being a kitten.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

lxghostxl.5097:

What cd on sigil of Earth or trait? And condi damage of 136 per sec? 5sec bleed? With traits? Have u checked the trait and the bonus damage and increase duration? Did you go even calculated the skill cd and damage burst when applied? Have you actually even tried the build? Why dont you try the build and check your combat log and calculate it there too and then look at your zerk overall dps.

2s CD on Earth Sigil, so over the duration, it could proc 30 times possibly, but statistically that will not happen. Its 60% chance to proc on a 61% chance to crit over 60 hits, 0.6x(0.61×60) which ends up being 21 times. I rounded up to 22.

With 1525 condition damage (Rampager with 15 might) and Hidden Barbs, bleeding will do ((0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22) * 1.2 = 136.2 dps

Sharpened Edges is a 3s bleed, base. Krait runes give +45%, Agony Sigil gives +20%, 45% + 25% = 65%. 3 × 1.65 = 4.95, I rounded up to 5s.

I don’t need to test the burst because that will 100% most definetly be in favor of the Zerker, I already said I have tried the build for months, until I found out zerker was more damage in a far shorter duration. Not only that, but a large portion of the damage cannot be cleansed and deal 0%.

There is no point calculating builds with so many chance variables in-game, it must be done mathematically to find the most likely scenario. I’m no mathematician though, I may have done things incorrectly, but welcome those being pointed out if I have erred, assuming people go about it without being a kitten.

please check the skills, traits, base damage, condi damage, condi duration, cd, crit damage and debuff. you can dl condi calculator or just find a website that has this and I can promise you. your source of dps is nothing compare to this, you should know that sharpening edge have 10 sec not 5 sec with the duration bonus. do not say 60% chance crit when there is fury on every single utility skill I have beside signet of earth that gives 80% chance while your source of damage is just what you stated?. please you should just play the build and see for your self instead of making up stuff and using a really bad calculation. btw stop looking at the 2013 stats your stats are way off so I am sure you used the wiki with the stat on 2013 because the bleed was buffed a little from this summer. I am 100% that you have not heard of the condi LB and you recently heard about it or maybe just from me since not allot of players run it and a few that actually continued looking for a build. this build used to be good last 2013 but went down fast because of the changes they made and was only recently picked up. I will say this again, use condi calculator and regular damage calculator and those 2 are the source of my dps, and I will accept your claim of Zerk have more dps if you can hit 2k normal attack and higher more with crit. you just do not understand this factors and you just kept ignoring it and focused on calculating with an old stat. you kept using this bad calculation which just show how much you do not know about it. I am not sure why you keep staying in this circular argument using unreliable calculation and ignoring your own dps source that has allot of down team and completely dependent of waiting for skill cd while condi maintain dps output, I know you are trolling just because the way you use this argument without even knowing anything about my build.

If you provide a link for a calculator that will compare the two builds and will accept the result from without excuses, I will do the data entry for it.

But you provide a link to one.

Excellent post, I couldn’t agree more. I run Axe/Torch and LB as well in both WvW (Trapper Runes) and sPvP (Krait), with Flame, Viper’s Nest and Spike in WvW, and Signet of the Wild, Viper’s Nest and Spike n sPvP. Entangle and Healing Spring in both cases. Wolf Pet in both, Forest Spider in WvW and Lynx in sPvP. The stats in the build are not quite correct for some reason, but they are close.

With the buffs and additional effects from the Trait setup and so on, I find this build to be very effective in terms of point-control, group damage and soloing. The latter is true only in certain cases of course, some ‘rocks’ out there will smash this ‘scissors’. The CC and huge number of conditions it can put it makes it a very solid, tactical and fun build to play.

Most importantly, it suits my playstyle. I think this is the one factor too many people overlook when putting a build together or worse, playing one someone else put together. Your ability to use your build effectively, to get the most out of it and indeed things someone else might NOT be able to get out of it, is a hugely important part of a build’s quality. In my view, a build, especially in WvW, is not necessarily about it’s strength or ability to kill etc, but to effect a decisive impact. That’s something I love about Rangers, if played properly.

Crapgame.6519:

I don’t believe the OP said what format of play. Having said that these come about every so often with similar results. Some hate them, some love them, some are middle ground, others say why bother. Note to everyone, not everyone rolls meta builds. Crazy as that may sound, it is true.

Trap runes are not viable in sPvP – they don’t exist.
They are in PvE and WvW.

PvE is mostly a zerk play ground today, and probably will come expansion. So, they are not really ideal.

WvW, they work. Most don’t like the way they work post June 23rd patch because you now have to set rather than toss in any direction. Me, it doesn’t matter which way they are, they work fine the way they are for most WvW formats. Solo, HAVOC, and even Zerg.

They give you stealth, speed, and CC. They allow you for the most part ways to reset the fight. Basic condition build focus. I run LB, Axe, and Torch because I like the range vs. some classes. SB also works if you want to spool up some quick bleed and in a small HAVOC group for those trying to disengage or run away. Spike trap is great. You typically are placing traps now to use has kiting tools or escape routes for you or you and your team. No more than using healing spring has a safe run-to spot for a quick regen.

Trap builds in WvW won’t put someone down as quick as a glass build. However, they do give you more survival. It really comes down to your comfort level and play style. For me, trapper runes and conditions are a good combo for what I do and don’t limit my ability to win vs. any classes if “I” play well.

i run traps (with trapper runes) with GS and LB and full kitten zerker.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJARTjEqQ7KWuCusAVLGWEq9yDgjuL3OYE4DIcHgSGVFA-TVCEABhfIA4e/BCOCAJq+zWKBZS5Xb6CA4CA8wDAgUAVp0C-w

much fun.

Castaliea.3156:

Without the stealth (but keeping Super Speed) what do trappers need to survive? I have limited experience with this playstyle and could use some help.

here’s my bad advice::

Whenever I run Trapper, I normally don’t bother with survival at all, and try to get my condition damage and critical chance as high as possible.

Also, about the other conversation….remember kids, destroyer trolls are immune to burns.

Castaliea.3156:

Without the stealth (but keeping Super Speed) what do trappers need to survive? I have limited experience with this playstyle and could use some help.

Some general comments. I really don’t understand what most of you are trying to communicate, even disregarding slang like “kitten.”

Regarding the OP, from the context the best guess is that you are talking about WvW. If so, what do you mean by “survive?” Numbers matter. There are no super-builds that are impossible to kill if they stay engaged. What “needs” are you referring to? Are you talking about stats or abilities? Are you talking about someone comfortable with active damage avoidance methods? Generally speaking to “survive” any build needs a dependable way to disengage when overmatched. Take away stealth, and you take away something that helps you disengage. And then there is the context, survive in a zerg, in a group or roaming solo? If you are talking something like a 1v1 duel (which I don’t think is very realistic), then my belief is that every build is strong against some builds and weak against other builds. For years I played with friends who would rather wipe than run away from a fight. It is a choice of play style too.

Regarding dps comparisons for applications outside of dungeons bosses, measuring theoretical damage over a 60-second period is useless information as a build comparison, especially in PvP and WvW. And the comments about condition cleansing especially makes me laugh. I am not putting just one condition on targets, usually at least 4. My thought is to use burning as well as bleeds. Again I don’t think 1v1 duels are a realistic assumption for WvW. I will agree that 2 or more LB condition rangers working together would be much more effective than only 1. In group combat with coordinated targeting, burst damage is more important than sustained damage.

Finally since the boost to condition damage and removal of the caps, I am using conditions as extra damage even when running a zerker build, even IN PVE. Using a spider or burning pet instead of a control pet for instance, while using taunt. I usually might stack anyway. So I don’t see why this zerker vs condition build debate really helps us now at all. I am still thinking about what to spec when the druid is available.

An unrelated parting question, I can’t figure out what posters mean by “pressure.” Certainly not from the context. I suspect that no two posters mean the same thing by it. Do they simply mean “engaged” or “in combat” status? Or is “pressure” something more than merely “engaged.”

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If you run full traps, you are quite vulnerable to CC and condi yourself because you have no stunbreaks or on-demand condition removal.

Just a heads up – apparently guardian traps are getting secondary effects:

“Here’s a list of new stuff we’ve got going as we draw closer to launch. Traps are gaining a functionality and are branching out just a tad bit, granting boons to the guardian when the trap is triggered.”

So it would seem it’s ok to give traps a secondary effect when it comes to certain classes. Go figure…

I’ll just it this way.

Ranger trapper died since removal of Ground targeting trait for traps.

All the fun of using traps offensively gone,
All the placement tactics are gone,
All chances to get away are gone,
All fun is reduced by 10.000,00%

I still think we should demand return of ground targeting, this is what made trapper unique and fun mechanic! It’s pity that we got double NERF, no more throwing, and trigger time, i think keeping trigger time, and adding throw-able traps would be balanced and keeping so many people happy.

Firelysm.4967:

I’ll just it this way.

Ranger trapper died since removal of Ground targeting trait for traps.

Hardly the case and don’t use that argument as a crutch. Traps work the same way and perform the same role. You just can’t toss them like you used to ala 360 degree ground targeting. Furthermore, you had to spend a trait point previously in order to do so, so you actually come out ahead for this very reason.

Play style has changed, I’ll give you that. However, they work just as well and just as effective than they are on June 22nd, 2015.

Crapgame.6519:

Firelysm.4967:

I’ll just it this way.

Ranger trapper died since removal of Ground targeting trait for traps.

Hardly the case and don’t use that argument as a crutch. Traps work the same way and perform the same role. You just can’t toss them like you used to ala 360 degree ground targeting. Furthermore, you had to spend a trait point previously in order to do so, so you actually come out ahead for this very reason.

Play style has changed, I’ll give you that. However, they work just as well and just as effective than they are on June 22nd, 2015.

You forgot to mention they didnt have the 1/2 sec arming time which makes them worst.

Wasnt there another trait that increased their radius too?

oh the forum still alive. lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_dG0NMPntw I dont really do this but here is a nub build on my Ranger on burst Condi LongBow, will try to put up a vid on PVE and PVP once I get my computer fixed..