Guild Wars 2

I believe it’s been suggested by players a few times before that the Hunter’s Call skill would be intreresting with an additionnal effect, and I believe this new weapon-specific trait could actually make it happen;

When this trait is active, Hunter’s Call’s birds have a chance to randomly apply a condition (3s bleed or 2s cripple or 2s blind) every _ seconds

I appreciate the skill as it is, but for the rather long cooldown and the actual efficiency of the skill, it somewhat feels like something is missing. And the bleed/blind kinda fit with the bird attack theme

Hunter’s Call deals approx. 612 dmg with a 25s cooldown
Rapid Fire deals approx. 1320 dmg with a 10s cooldown AND grants up to 10 stacks of vuln.

I understand the latter is reflectable, but an additional effect to Hunter’s Call sounds fitting

Fear would be nice for it.
Or interrupt every second, but you can ban the birds by dodging.
Or additional to the random condition a 6s Revealed (like Sic’em) as counterplay against thiefs or mesmers.

I reckon adding 1.5s of AoE Torment per strike, would be cool. People would just panic haha.

I think adding an additional effect to Hunter’s Call should be baseline, not traited

ProtoMarcus.7649:

I think adding an additional effect to Hunter’s Call should be baseline, not traited

I agree, as it is weak right now, it needs a bit more to it than just 592dmg over 16 strikes. I think if they added a 1-1.5s condition per strike, it would make it quite good, even without condi damage. Then perhaps make the trait add 50% more strikes, so 24 hits instead of 16. Or make it AoE when traited, that would be awesome.

Actually, they could make each strike function exactly like Splinter Shot for the Harpoon Gun, except have the duration at 1s instead of 4s.

We need some boon rip so why not have the birds strip boons.

16 boon rips is guaranteed to leave your target open to attack but its only a single target and moderate dmg so I don’t think it would be op.

I like adding condis to make it a hybrid weapon as right now it kind of functions for power builds.

Ripping 16 boons off one target is pretty OP on a 25s CD mate.

Of the 4 off hand weapons available to ranger, 2 are condition based (dagger/torch) and two are power based (axe/warhorn) two are damage based (axe/torch) and two are utility (dagger/warhorn).

Warhorn 4 has its uses, but perhaps if we need to add something (which is already being talked about), something utility based would be ideal

Any suggestions? Because it would need to fit in with the theme and having birds attack your target kinda narrows down what else it can do. It’s not like you can make it give you protection or anything.

Maybe one of those pet-related buffs? Like pet attacks are unblockable while the birds are pecking the target’s eyes?

Nice thought, but it doesn’t last long enough to really make a difference, perhaps if it were next X pet attacks are unblockable?

I still prefer 1.5s of Bleeding or Torment per strike, with Splinter Shot functionality. Then WH would be more a hybrid/utility weapon and would pair better with our Sword/SB/Axe than it does currently. Even the long CD can stay as it would be quite powerful then due to the AoE.

Why not daze?

Seems pretty obvious that this thing should daze.

Daze would be pretty good too, any suggestion on the duration/effect?

Feeding Frenzy’s functionality also suits this skill.

I’d like to just see it apply torment, probably make it so it maintains about 4stacks or so, idk if I’d say to make it AoE though.

A Boonstrip would be amazing, but I can’t see it being on this skill as it is just because it hits 16 times.

1.5s of torment per strike would be 24 ticks of Torment on a 25s CD and a lot of those could be dodged. Compare this to Impale on Warrior OH Sword, it is 40 ticks with a 15s CD.
So maybe not AoE. Perhaps a 2s AoE Fear at the start!? Hilarious!

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

1.5s of torment per strike would be 24 ticks of Torment on a 25s CD and a lot of those could be dodged. Compare this to Impale on Warrior OH Sword, it is 40 ticks with a 15s CD.
So maybe not AoE. Perhaps a 2s AoE Fear at the start!? Hilarious!

Nah not aoe fear, but fear and torment on the guy is having their face ripped off by birds would be great.

I’d like Hunter’s Call to have an AOE daze on cast. Not sure about what effect to add during the actual bird attacks but I’ll take anything at this point.

Having the birds apply blindness effect each tick would be pretty nice. Just enough so that the opponent is suffering periodic blindness ticks while the birds are on them rather than stacking it. That way the warhorn has a strong defensive skill that can be used to stop stomps or mess up an opponent’s damage rotation every 25 seconds.

Ehecatl.9172:

Having the birds apply blindness effect each tick would be pretty nice. Just enough so that the opponent is suffering periodic blindness ticks while the birds are on them rather than stacking it. That way the warhorn has a strong defensive skill that can be used to stop stomps or mess up an opponent’s damage rotation every 25 seconds.

Warhorn currently has close to no uses.
… I’d definitely want to see the damage be cut in half, probably even the duration (damage ticks unchanged), and see it re-applying blindness to secure stomps or deny bursts from Zerk classes. We already are a snack for them, both in terms of damage and utility.

Make a utility weapon a utility one at the very long last. It would still be fine for applying on-hit effects such as Sharpened Edges, but would have other effects finally justified (because nobody cares about damage when taking warhorn).

What do you guyz say?

The damage can stay where it is imo, even if you add quite a bit of other utility to it. It is mid range, so if it had a damage condition, it would do good damage with both power/condi builds.

Fear/Torment would be gold to see and I would use WH all the time

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

The damage can stay where it is imo, even if you add quite a bit of other utility to it. It is mid range, so if it had a damage condition, it would do good damage with both power/condi builds.

Fear/Torment would be gold to see and I would use WH all the time

The thing is that almost no one who uses Warhorn does use it for damage.
Necros, Warriors…
I don’t want every single weapon we have to be damage oriented, and we already have more than enough CC. Most of the game so far with the upcoming changes.

I want a satisfiable utility. And blind is exactly what I’d like to see happen.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Daze would be pretty good too, any suggestion on the duration/effect?

Feeding Frenzy’s functionality also suits this skill.

This is a very good idea but I think it should blind too or have a chance for a blind on each attack say 50% or so chance for a 1 second blind I think the swarm of birds could also be aoe around the target give all 3 of these effects and it wouldn’t be too good but it would be very useful in a number of ways.

I would love to see it AoE. How about a 50% chance to Blind/Torment for 1s per strike and make it hit 3 targets. It would be like a cut and paste of Mad King Runes (6) bonus, but with the conditions and 25s CD.

rangers need utility, not damage or more conditions.

I think that Hunter’s Call birds should rip off boons. adjust the animation in some way, maybe have 4 birds swoop in over 2 seconds to take off 4 boons from one target. secondary effect could be just straight up single target nuke, a soft CC, or small buff to the ranger.

this skill is a perfect place to insert boon hate on the ranger. I hope theyre also giving some attention to Whirling Defense.

I actually think that all warhorn 4 really needs is a blind on an interval.

Let’s say, 4 blinds, one per every 4 hits, on like a 3-4 second duration?

5 blinds, 1 per every 3 hits, same duration?

Or it could also apply the new Slow. That would also fit thematically well and “feel” effective.

Even some sort of just cripple would be welcomed. Other than that, I don’t personally really think that Warhorn needs any more damage on the 4 skill, and we already have 2 entirely condition based offhands, and with offhand axe as the power option, warhorn really just needs to bring the full on utility imo.

Also, can we please get the might stacks up to 3 on warhorn 5? I mean, I already see perma-fury niches with certain traiting, but the single might stack has been bothering me since forever.

I think Anet should just make the damage of hunter calls tick every second over 5 seconds, merge the whole damage into that 5 strikes instead of 16 (retaliation says hello), and make each strike able to strip 1 boom . (Total of 5 boom rips, but any sane person would have dodge at least 1~3 attacks from it)

This is what I called balance skill, not filler skill.

jcbroe.4329:

I actually think that all warhorn 4 really needs is a blind on an interval.

Let’s say, 4 blinds, one per every 4 hits, on like a 3-4 second duration?

5 blinds, 1 per every 3 hits, same duration?

Or it could also apply the new Slow. That would also fit thematically well and “feel” effective.

Even some sort of just cripple would be welcomed. Other than that, I don’t personally really think that Warhorn needs any more damage on the 4 skill, and we already have 2 entirely condition based offhands, and with offhand axe as the power option, warhorn really just needs to bring the full on utility imo.

Also, can we please get the might stacks up to 3 on warhorn 5? I mean, I already see perma-fury niches with certain traiting, but the single might stack has been bothering me since forever.

I think locking down a target with blinds for 5 seconds is OP. thieves do it with combo, necros do it with wells that you have to stand in. Hunter’s Call would have no counterplay. same if it was a cripple.

we don’t really need to buff our 1v1 capabilities, we don’t need more defense. we need more team utility.

and yes to getting that might up to 3 stacks.

AoE blind is perfect for team utility.

I like the strikes at 16 because of Sharpened Edges, but if warriors keep Spiked Armour at minor in Defense, it would be bad to use on them.

Idk why WH4 would apply AoE of any condition, if anything it would be single target effects, there’s no logical reason someone not being mauled by the birds would be blinded.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ripping 16 boons off one target is pretty OP on a 25s CD mate.

There are already remove all boons skill and that convert them into condis or remove on area etc.
Btw warriors warhorne removes 40 condis, turn 10 in boons, give swiftnes on 12 sec cd and remove 5 more condi convert to boons, aoe vigor, blast finisher + aoe weakness on 16 sec
Am i missed something?

McWolfy.5924:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ripping 16 boons off one target is pretty OP on a 25s CD mate.

There are already remove all boons skill and that convert them into condis or remove on area etc.
Btw warriors warhorne removes 40 condis, turn 10 in boons, give swiftnes on 12 sec cd and remove 5 more condi convert to boons, aoe vigor, blast finisher + aoe weakness on 16 sec
Am i missed something?

Yeah, Quick Breathing (war WH trait) is an adpet one, our is GM and in the same slot that Evasive Purity.

Durzlla.6295:

Idk why WH4 would apply AoE of any condition, if anything it would be single target effects, there’s no logical reason someone not being mauled by the birds would be blinded.

I said they could just make the skill a cut and paste of the Mad King rune’s (6) bonus, so it would affect 3 people (with 3 lots of birds), just adding the blind. I think that would be quite good.

McWolfy.5924:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ripping 16 boons off one target is pretty OP on a 25s CD mate.

There are already remove all boons skill and that convert them into condis or remove on area etc.
Btw warriors warhorne removes 40 condis, turn 10 in boons, give swiftnes on 12 sec cd and remove 5 more condi convert to boons, aoe vigor, blast finisher + aoe weakness on 16 sec
Am i missed something?

You have a point, but there’s a difference between <strip the boons and allow them to reapply> and <make the target practically immune to boons for 5 seconds>

Tragic Positive.9356:

McWolfy.5924:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ripping 16 boons off one target is pretty OP on a 25s CD mate.

There are already remove all boons skill and that convert them into condis or remove on area etc.
Btw warriors warhorne removes 40 condis, turn 10 in boons, give swiftnes on 12 sec cd and remove 5 more condi convert to boons, aoe vigor, blast finisher + aoe weakness on 16 sec
Am i missed something?

You have a point, but there’s a difference between <strip the boons and allow them to reapply> and <make the target practically immune to boons for 5 seconds>

Revenants come with a temporary “immune to conditions” mechanic. Why not have a temporary “immune to boons” one as the flip side? :p

The ability to deny boons for a duration is massively powerful, since, some builds rely highly on them to do anything. The duration of such a condition would be very low.

cafard.8953:

Tragic Positive.9356:

McWolfy.5924:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ripping 16 boons off one target is pretty OP on a 25s CD mate.

There are already remove all boons skill and that convert them into condis or remove on area etc.
Btw warriors warhorne removes 40 condis, turn 10 in boons, give swiftnes on 12 sec cd and remove 5 more condi convert to boons, aoe vigor, blast finisher + aoe weakness on 16 sec
Am i missed something?

You have a point, but there’s a difference between <strip the boons and allow them to reapply> and <make the target practically immune to boons for 5 seconds>

Revenants come with a temporary “immune to conditions” mechanic. Why not have a temporary “immune to boons” one as the flip side? :p

They do not really “come with” … Warriors have had it for years.
… But defensive and offensive “immunity” is something absolutely different.

Being immune to boons means BOTH offense and defense. They will deal less damage (defense for you) as well as be vulnerable without Aegis, Protection, Regen and such (offensive for you).

That’s why the idea is wrong.

Tragic Positive.9356:

cafard.8953:

Tragic Positive.9356:

McWolfy.5924:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ripping 16 boons off one target is pretty OP on a 25s CD mate.

There are already remove all boons skill and that convert them into condis or remove on area etc.
Btw warriors warhorne removes 40 condis, turn 10 in boons, give swiftnes on 12 sec cd and remove 5 more condi convert to boons, aoe vigor, blast finisher + aoe weakness on 16 sec
Am i missed something?

You have a point, but there’s a difference between <strip the boons and allow them to reapply> and <make the target practically immune to boons for 5 seconds>

Revenants come with a temporary “immune to conditions” mechanic. Why not have a temporary “immune to boons” one as the flip side? :p

They do not really “come with” … Warriors have had it for years.
… But defensive and offensive “immunity” is something absolutely different.

Being immune to boons means BOTH offense and defense. They will deal less damage (defense for you) as well as be vulnerable without Aegis, Protection, Regen and such (offensive for you).

That’s why the idea is wrong.

That was more for the sake of finding an excuse, i don’t particularly think it’s good, justified or balanced. :p

And i’d argue that your point applies equally to conditions. An enemy can be affected by Chill/Blind/Weakness (defense for you) as well as be made vulnerable through Cripple/Immob/Vulnerability/Poison/etc (offensive for you).

should apply blind for a few seconds

mistsim.2748:

jcbroe.4329:

I actually think that all warhorn 4 really needs is a blind on an interval.

Let’s say, 4 blinds, one per every 4 hits, on like a 3-4 second duration?

5 blinds, 1 per every 3 hits, same duration?

Or it could also apply the new Slow. That would also fit thematically well and “feel” effective.

Even some sort of just cripple would be welcomed. Other than that, I don’t personally really think that Warhorn needs any more damage on the 4 skill, and we already have 2 entirely condition based offhands, and with offhand axe as the power option, warhorn really just needs to bring the full on utility imo.

Also, can we please get the might stacks up to 3 on warhorn 5? I mean, I already see perma-fury niches with certain traiting, but the single might stack has been bothering me since forever.

I think locking down a target with blinds for 5 seconds is OP. thieves do it with combo, necros do it with wells that you have to stand in. Hunter’s Call would have no counterplay. same if it was a cripple.

we don’t really need to buff our 1v1 capabilities, we don’t need more defense. we need more team utility.

and yes to getting that might up to 3 stacks.

Blind and cripple aren’t mutually exclusive to 1v1 situations though. Your team would absolutely appreciate it if you could throw up a few blinds on damage dealers like thief/mesmer/etc or a cripple on a heavy melee focused character like a guardian/warrior to help peel them off, so the utility is absolutely there.

The major difference, between the blind examples you used and what I proposed (even though I acknowledge that whenever I suggest numbers, they are suggestions and would be subject to change based on more intricate and deliberate balance) is that the blinds you mentioned are both AoE.

If the skill applied like, 3 blinds minimum over the course of the skill (which by the way could also be dodged) to a single target, it would be beneficial in PvE and PvP, both in individual situations and in teamfights.

Regardless though, there isn’t really much you can do with the design of the skill. Maybe it could be more like the elite effect of mad king runes (AoE)?
Because it is an attack though, and because it is single target, it is pretty limited in designing an effect that makes sense the boosts allies, and with the current design, makes more sense to have the skill apply some sort of utility effect to an enemy.

Slow, Taunt, Fear, Blind, Cripple, Chill, Vulnerability, Weakness, Immobilize, or even possibly a daze on the first successful hit. Out of those, I would prioritize Slow, Blind, Weakness, or Vulnerability as the most universally beneficial, Daze as the next, and lastly soft CCs, with certain of those options not making sense (fear, immobilize, chill, stun, and even taunt).

I mean, if somebody can argue how warhorn 4 as a single target attack can also somehow buff allies, and actually suggest something that would be a unique and decent alternative, I’d take it, but all the suggestions I’ve read so far as just more generic, not ultimately better than other option party buffs or trying to turn the warhorn into some sort of weird hybrid condition weapon that would then be permanently outclassed by other offhands.

slow would be really, really cool on that skill. I forgot about it.

mistsim.2748:

slow would be really, really cool on that skill. I forgot about it.

Yeah, I think slow would be one of the more decent options as well. It wouldn’t really be OP, it would give the skill new functionality, and it would give ranger instant access to one of the new features from HoT.

Plus, I like shiny new things haha.

jcbroe.4329:

mistsim.2748:

slow would be really, really cool on that skill. I forgot about it.

Yeah, I think slow would be one of the more decent options as well. It wouldn’t really be OP, it would give the skill new functionality, and it would give ranger instant access to one of the new features from HoT.

Plus, I like shiny new things haha.

and it makes sense, thematically. birds wouldn’t blind you necessarily or make u run slower (theyd make u run faster). but they would interfere with your actions like firing a bow or swinging a sword. theyd also make you bleed I suppose, but we have enough of bleed.

Durzlla.6295:

Idk why WH4 would apply AoE of any condition, if anything it would be single target effects, there’s no logical reason someone not being mauled by the birds would be blinded.

A small swarm of birds around the target that also hit anyone standing next to it, makes perfect sense.

mistsim.2748:

and it makes sense, thematically. birds wouldn’t blind you necessarily or make u run slower (theyd make u run faster). but they would interfere with your actions like firing a bow or swinging a sword. theyd also make you bleed I suppose, but we have enough of bleed.

I’d say a flock of birds getting in your face and pecking at your eyes would certainly cause blindness. Not to mention all the feathers and dust flying in your face from their flapping wings.

There are Moa Feathers in the game that not only cause blindness, they cause stealth!

jcbroe.4329:

Also, can we please get the might stacks up to 3 on warhorn 5? I mean, I already see perma-fury niches with certain traiting, but the single might stack has been bothering me since forever.

When Anet made Warhorn 5 a Blast Finisher, all hopes of it applying 3 stacks of might went out the window, because in their heads – that would be too much.

Hunter’s call should be a ground targeted AoE.

There would be birds flying around in a circle, and whoever enters through it will get attacked by birds.

The AoE range should be as big as Meteor storm/Barrage/Combustion shot.

Ehecatl.9172:

mistsim.2748:

and it makes sense, thematically. birds wouldn’t blind you necessarily or make u run slower (theyd make u run faster). but they would interfere with your actions like firing a bow or swinging a sword. theyd also make you bleed I suppose, but we have enough of bleed.

I’d say a flock of birds getting in your face and pecking at your eyes would certainly cause blindness. Not to mention all the feathers and dust flying in your face from their flapping wings.

ok why would the birds be pecking your eyes? they don’t do that IRL, theyd just be scratching you with their talons.

mistsim.2748:

Ehecatl.9172:

mistsim.2748:

and it makes sense, thematically. birds wouldn’t blind you necessarily or make u run slower (theyd make u run faster). but they would interfere with your actions like firing a bow or swinging a sword. theyd also make you bleed I suppose, but we have enough of bleed.

I’d say a flock of birds getting in your face and pecking at your eyes would certainly cause blindness. Not to mention all the feathers and dust flying in your face from their flapping wings.

ok why would the birds be pecking your eyes? they don’t do that IRL, theyd just be scratching you with their talons.

they don’t do that in real life, too. Never seen a flock of birds attacking a person or guys throwing flameballs at each other.

Um large birds attack larger animals all the time, if close to the nest. And they don’t try to ‘peck their eyes out’ as their first choice. Watch one of them wildlife documentaries if you wanna know how birds do their thing. Regardless, I think the slow Condi would be much more beneficial to us on WH 4, over a blind or anything else really.