I used to be a Longbow useing Ranger, i hated the look and feel of the short bow. After hitting 80 though and having both a 1000dps+ longbow and short bow I have found that the short bow out dps’s the long bow in almost every fight unless you are standing at 1500 and then its still very close.
Now that im useing the torch off hand to create a flame patch with a quicking zypher skill the short bow with its rate of fire and extra bleed damage off skill 1 blow the longbow out of the water.
The only place the longbow I have found is better is for keep attack/defense due to the range not the damage.
I really do hope they buff the longbow, untill then though the short bow is better.
From what i’ve noticed Longbow is more of the “commanders weapon” (as one of my friends put it) you personally don’t to much with it, but you can effect the battle pretty greatly with it by throwing large amounts of vuln on the called target, crippling a large area of people/cutting off a point with that same aoe cripple, not to mention the knockback and range you get that helps you stay away from a lot of the threat giving you a lot better location to analyze the fight.
Damage wise, i don’t think longbow outshines shortbow, but in the overall utility i think longbow has shortbow beat hands down.
Damage is everything.. That range doesnt do you any good when we dont have the speed to get away form anything. Or catch anyone. If you engage at max range the person will normaly just back up or they will close the gap (if they no what there doing you will miss 50% of your shots as they close) if there a class that can quickly. Then your stuck running away.
The problem with barrage is you have to stand still and let it cast that alows the person to roll through it and engage you while your standing still. So it becomes only really effective in large skill wvw. In smaller fights or spvp its a liablity.
Useing a shortbow/ axe-torch off hand gives you a huge amount of burst and single target snares. As well as alowing you to stay moble. A non-moving ranger is pretty much a dead ranger.
Sure in massive wvw zergs you can plink away with a longbow. Your not gong to bring people down though. I used to be a 100% longbow user. Just experance has shown me that its not nearlly as effective as a short bow. Granted you have to be built for the short bow, con-damage is a huge part of the build. It cost me a pretty penny to regear for short bow but it has been worth it.
Damage is everything.. That range doesnt do you any good when we dont have the speed to get away form anything. Or catch anyone. If you engage at max range the person will normaly just back up or they will close the gap (if they no what there doing you will miss 50% of your shots as they close) if there a class that can quickly. Then your stuck running away.
The problem with barrage is you have to stand still and let it cast that alows the person to roll through it and engage you while your standing still. So it becomes only really effective in large skill wvw. In smaller fights or spvp its a liablity.
Useing a shortbow/ axe-torch off hand gives you a huge amount of burst and single target snares. As well as alowing you to stay moble. A non-moving ranger is pretty much a dead ranger.
Sure in massive wvw zergs you can plink away with a longbow. Your not gong to bring people down though. I used to be a 100% longbow user. Just experance has shown me that its not nearlly as effective as a short bow. Granted you have to be built for the short bow, con-damage is a huge part of the build. It cost me a pretty penny to regear for short bow but it has been worth it.
Pffft don’t have the speed to catch anything, speak for yourself!! there’s only one thing in the game that can outrun me!!
As a ranger lover. I believe all our weapons can do nice.
Axe main: The instant bleed stack and numbers of targets makes it a perfect swap weapon.
Horn: Buffs, i love buff.
Torch: PvE with this till 50 so so. ITS GREAT in easy PvE while completing maps. Axe/torch take a 5 foe group very easily for non-aoe class.
Shorbow: Cant say much, best weapon in all game for me.
Longbow: HEY! 2 skill is just WOOOOPPP GANGNAM STYLE. Destroy your enemies with 2 skill, swap to short, finish it. Its a great weapon in WvWvW cause of “Arc shoot”. Try getting gates and foes on the wall with short. U can, but its hard. Try doing with longbow: AWESOME!!!
And mam: when u are on that dungeon/WvWvW/PvE part where theres 10 enemies. U pull one, the others come. Once they activate your trap. you plus other rangers BARRAGE! the dmg + crippling make it a PERFECT weapon to combo with Ele, Necros, Guardians, wherever can do AoE dmg.
Brains > Brawls
Peace
You only touch the Longbow for the 10 vuln stacks or the knockback. Even so you rather just run shortbow + axe/warhorn for the utility.
The longbow is definitely beneficial when you are coming up on a gang of baddies. Especially with opening strike, the barrage can lay down some MASSIVE AoE damage. In generally, I will usually use the longbow/shortbow combination for reasons people have already described(longbow for initial critical damage, then shortbow for skirmish attacks.) I will also use a Longbow/ Sword+Axe combo if I’m dealing with 3 or less enemies. Plus, the fact that your pet will generally attract most of their attention compliments the long bow very well.
Sure in massive wvw zergs you can plink away with a longbow. Your not gong to bring people down though. I used to be a 100% longbow user. Just experance has shown me that its not nearlly as effective as a short bow. Granted you have to be built for the short bow, con-damage is a huge part of the build. It cost me a pretty penny to regear for short bow but it has been worth it.
This is the part I don’t understand. My feeling on the Shortbow has also been that it is a condition damage weapon, primarily, so to use it to full effect, you need to be stacking condition damage…which scales linearly, and can be cleansed. Do you not have to sacrifice one of crit, power or crit damage in order to stack that condition damage? How, upon doing that, are you still doing comparable physical damage to someone running a more conventional Berserker setup?
This is why I want to see actual math. I want to see what builds are being used for results, and where the damage is coming from. I want to see the cooldown and channel times on attacks. I want to know what kind of difference armor makes (because I most certainly DO kill people in WvWvW) . I want to see more FACTS and NUMBERS, and less anecdotal experiences.
Sure in massive wvw zergs you can plink away with a longbow. Your not gong to bring people down though. I used to be a 100% longbow user. Just experance has shown me that its not nearlly as effective as a short bow. Granted you have to be built for the short bow, con-damage is a huge part of the build. It cost me a pretty penny to regear for short bow but it has been worth it.
This is the part I don’t understand. My feeling on the Shortbow has also been that it is a condition damage weapon, primarily, so to use it to full effect, you need to be stacking condition damage…which scales linearly, and can be cleansed. Do you not have to sacrifice one of crit, power or crit damage in order to stack that condition damage? How, upon doing that, are you still doing comparable physical damage to someone running a more conventional Berserker setup?
This is why I want to see actual math. I want to see what builds are being used for results, and where the damage is coming from. I want to see the cooldown and channel times on attacks. I want to know what kind of difference armor makes (because I most certainly DO kill people in WvWvW) . I want to see more FACTS and NUMBERS, and less anecdotal experiences.
And that is the mistake people in this thread are making. The math shows (link below) that shortbow out damages a longbow when stacking POWER AND CRIT which is normally what you would do for the longbow. I don’t run a condition based spec.. I stack power, crit, toughness, vitality and the shortbow puts out more damage than the longbow because of the auto attack. When the experienced rangers here are saying the shortbow out damages the longbow we are talking about when you are in a longbow SPEC of high power and precision/crit. The bleeds from the shortbow are icing on the cake! This was due to them nerfing the damage of the longbow and buffing the auto attack speed of the shortbow right before launch.
Link to the math threads -
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/57386-longbow-vs-shortbow-dps-speed-etc/
http://mmo-mechanics.com/forums/topic/1002-shortbow-vs-longbow/
Also JROH did an awesome job of summarizing the viable specs in this thread – http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/67191-so-it-appears-that-our-strongest-builds/
(edited by kharza.3974)
If you really, really like the longbow for whatever reason (aesthetics, style, whatever), go ahead and use it. Thankfully, there is no inspect button, and most non-Rangers don’t care to think about what it can do outside of ERMAHGERD ARRERS!!!! I personally use a Longbow, because I just like the skins better, and nobody in dungeons or WvW has bothered to call me out for playing longbow.
However, if you really want to be effective, choose a Shortbow. As much as I love my Longbow, I realize its complete junk damage wise and always carry a shortbow in my inventory in case the content is serious. No matter what you run, Power/Crit or Condition builds, Shortbow will outDPS the Longbow.
For utility, its somewhat of a toss-up, but it still feels weighted in the shortbow’s favor. Shortbow packs Healing Reduction, Cripple, Stun/Daze, Swiftness, and a retreat skill. Longbow has Vulnerability, Knockback, and AoE cripple. Longbow Vulnerability vs Shortbow Poison is dependant on your style. Both are great assets for helping spike, Longbows can set up for burst specs, while Shortbow can help slow recovery from burst or attrition specs. After that, I feel the Shortbow starts to come out on top. Cripple+Self Swiftness/Leap back is incredibly more powerful than the Knockback. However, the knockback can be useful group wise, but I prefer Concussive Shot, again that’s more of your choice. The Longbow’s one useful skill of note is Barrage for AoE damage/cripple, but if that’s all you’re bringing it for, you’re better off with taking Spike trap and freeing up your 2nd weapon for Axe/OH.
Honestly, the longbow is just underwhelming. The damage is always less than a Shortbow, even at max range. For a weapon that is giving up a lot of utility for a skillset focused on high-damage (think Warrior rifle), I was expecting more. The fact of the matter is, if I’m running anything serious, I bring a Shortbow. It offers more damage and utility for both me and my team.
The only time I ever see Longbows used seriously is in WvW for chilling at 1500 range and hitting people on walls, or used with dual-bow builds. However, the second one is falling out of favor as people are using Axe/OH with the shortbow for added utility, as opposed to the opener from the longbow.
Some things I like about short bow:
1. Designed to burn down one enemy quickly.
2. Flanking a mob or chasing someone down is a death sentence to whomever is getting flanked.
3. Great support skills for skirmishing with a ranged cripple and a ranged daze/stun interrupt.
4. Good escapability with a jumpback move that creates distance.
5. In combination with QZ it’s a machine gun. With root, qz, and piercing arrows you can burn multiple enemies to the ground quickly.
What I don’t like about short bow:
1. You have to be in close to be effective.
What I like about the longbow:
1. It’s a great weapon to fight from a distance.
2. It’s an absolute must for keep defense, keep seige, and choke point defense. If you don’t have barrage as a ranger in WvW, you’re doing it wrong.
3. In combination with a root elite, barrage gets me more kills then anything and will turn a zerg around to run. Jump off castle wall, root the hos to the ground. Drop barrage on their head. Dodge back out to heal. By the time you turn around your zerg is usually chasing down the few that haven’t been overran.
4. Longbow is great for zerg vs. zerg stand-offs, like at a bridge, or any structure. I simply stay at range and target people that are half-dead or limping already. QZ plus rapid fire is the biggest burst a ranger can do. You just have to learn to time it so you’re landing the majority of the rf on your opponent. I use this to pick up easy kills and then drop barrage on the corpse to pick off the hero that comes to rez his buddy.
Thing I don’t like about longbow:
1. Rate of fire. It is harder to land. You can’t argue that. You just have to learn how to land it, by targetting people that aren’t paying attention to you.
I still carry a warhorn to use for out of combat movement speed, but I find both the shortbow and the longbow essential in WvW and that’s all I care about.
Why is this even a discussion? They are two different tools for two different jobs.
You’re not going to use a hammer to chop down a tree, are you? So why would you compare it to an axe?
What I don’t like about short bow:
1. You have to be in close to be effective.
Not a single Shortbow skill gets any penalties for using it at 1200 range.
True, but rate of fire increases as you get closer to the enemy. Your damage increases the CLOSER you are to your enemy.
That’s why I like the combination of shortbow/longbow. Damage increases as you get closer and as you get farther away.
True, but rate of fire increases as you get closer to the enemy. Your damage increases the CLOSER you are to your enemy.
That’s why I like the combination of shortbow/longbow. Damage increases as you get closer and as you get farther away.
My rate of fire has never increased the closer I get to an enemy. The only thing that has ever increased my rate of fire with a shortbow is Quickness.
My favorite thing to do in PVP is spot a shortbow ranger and kill him. I am a longbow ranger and I out range shortbow, on top of Rapid Fire + Quickening Zephyr is pretty much burst down and dead.
The AOE is useful for taking walls, defending walls, skirmishing bridges, whatever.
The knock-back/interrupt is amazing when trying to disrupt an enemies movement. A lot of times it just knocks them down on their butt and ensures a kill.
I tried out shortbow but i personally did not fancy it. I will continue to run Longbow/Axe+Horn.
True, but rate of fire increases as you get closer to the enemy. Your damage increases the CLOSER you are to your enemy.
Then a guardian throws up retaliation on his teammate and you are toast.
mmmm….toast
Back with some more input. Now I’ve used longbow for the duration of the week with the traits put into power and range. My conclusion, after making a lot of dps and tactical tests—Longbow is rubbish. The only thing it has going for it is the #4 ability push back. And the #5 ability cripple in dungeons.
Try it, do some numbers for your selves. If you want mobility and higher dps go shortbow, the only thing you have to do is move in 300 yards. That is if you’ve put a trait in range, otherwise is just the same 1200y.
True, but rate of fire increases as you get closer to the enemy. Your damage increases the CLOSER you are to your enemy.
I have tested it in the HotM; in 10 seconds from ~1200 range I shot almost 21 times, from ~100 range almost 21 times.
If the attack speed is affected by distance the gain is less than ~2,5%.
True, but rate of fire increases as you get closer to the enemy. Your damage increases the CLOSER you are to your enemy.
I have tested it in the HotM; in 10 seconds from ~1200 range I shot almost 21 times, from ~100 range almost 21 times.
If the attack speed is affected by distance the gain is less than ~2,5%.
“almost 21” as in 20? Just curious. I will check this myself as well.
Back with some more input. Now I’ve used longbow for the duration of the week with the traits put into power and range. My conclusion, after making a lot of dps and tactical tests—Longbow is rubbish. The only thing it has going for it is the #4 ability push back. And the #5 ability cripple in dungeons.
Try it, do some numbers for your selves. If you want mobility and higher dps go shortbow, the only thing you have to do is move in 300 yards. That is if you’ve put a trait in range, otherwise is just the same 1200y.
The 300 yards means I can hit you but you can’t hit me. In PvP that’s all that matters. I also have a knock back to ensure you stay outside your range should you get to close. I think it is personal preference honestly. I don’t bash the shortbow I just don’t perfer it. I don’t like getting in close with a ranged weapon. If i wanted to get in melee range I would have rolled a warrior. Yes it has mobility but the ultimate mobility is killing people outside their range to strike back. Should the need to evacuate arise, you already have a head start.
If shortbow works for you then enjoy it. I will enjoy my longbow =]
I’m almost positive your rate of fire changes due to a mechanic that doesn’t allow an arrow to fly until one lands. If you’re close the arrow lands faster and you can get more of them off. I’ve even read from an official Anet source that Shortbow is designed to do more damage the closer you are to your target.
I might be wrong, but I don’t think I am.
It’s really obvious when you pop QZ on top of someone or if you pop it at 1200. It’s obvious then that you can only have one arrow in the air at a time.
From my experience playing ranger since day 1, I’ve found that longbow’s greatest weakness is that it’s only useful from a defensive position. If you plan to skirmish then there are far superior swap alternatives.
Alright, this is gonna be long, but bear with me. I’ve tested out both the LB and SB at lvl 80 full exotic gear and weapons, traits stacked 30/30/10/0/0. Now before I state myself further, if you already can’t tell, this experimentation is to test whether or not SB/LB outdoes one another DPS overall using the same traits, skills, and gear as the other. I have LB/SB skill recharge time trait and multiple dmg increase traits including the increase of longbow range and longbow damage by 5% trait.
Stats: 3.4k attack, 46% crit chance, 54% crit dmg increase
1st test: Short Bow on lvl 80 mobs in Frostgorge (regular non veteran class)
- SB has a faster damage output than LB, and when bleeds were stacked to 18 max I could get with #1 skill and QZ, condition dmg dealth 43 per second per 18 stack worth.
43 × 18 = 774 per second by the 4th second along with the 350 base damage per shot (4 shots per second) or 750 crit dmg per hit if I was lucky that I occasionally do. So by the end of the 4sec QZ the damage output made a total of APPROXIMATELY
-Killed the mob that way (was a son of svanir troop) in 6 seconds so the test stops by then.
: (43 × 18 = 744 per second by the 4th second using QZ, but since condition dps is lower in the 1st couple seconds round it off to 43 × 11 = 473 by the 2nd second so let’s make a hypothesis that condition damage by the 6th second when the mob died was around 744 + 473(2) = 744 + 946 = 1690 (since 6sec-4sec = 2sec based off of 2 second test damage)
Condition DMG approximately = 1.69k per 6sec
With QZ, skill #1 does 4 shots/sec and if the minimum dmg done was 350, 350 × 4shots per sec x 4sec = 1.4k x 4 = 5.6k dmg in 4 seconds. With 2 seconds left over without QZ and without QZ, skill #1 does 2 shots per second so 350 × 2shots per sec x 2sec = 700 × 2 = 1.4k dmg in 2 seconds.
^Assuming there were no crits as suggested, total dmg along with condition dmg is
5.6k + 1.69k + 1.4k = 7k + 1.69k = 8.69k dmg in 6 seconds without criticals.
Now let’s calculate for total damage with criticals. If I had a 46% crit chance with 54% damage increase. In 4seconds with QZ which totals their shots in those 4 seconds with 4shots per second x 4seconds = 16 shots per for 4 seconds. 46% of 16 shots is (with the benefit of the doubt of due probability 7-9 crits out of 16 shots. Let’s go with the “luckier factor” and include 8 crits out of 16 shots.
So each crit deals around 750 dmg. so 750 × 8 = 1.5k x 4 = 6k dmg. 6k dmg + 8(350) = total damage with base hits and crit hits together = 6k dmg + 2.8k damage = 8.8k damage in 4 seconds. There are 2 seconds leftover to kill the mob and without QZ every skill #1 shot does an output of 2 shots per second so in 2 seconds there are 4 shots. Let’s give 2 of these shots crits and 2 shots regular.
700 is the 350 × 2 base damage and 1.5k is the 750 × 2 crit damage. 700 + 1.5k = 2.2k dmg in the last 2 seconds. 8.8k + 2.2k = 11k dmg in 6 seconds with both base and crit damage.
Total Condition DMG + Total DMG With Crits = Total Overall DMG
1.69k + 11k = 12.69k Overall DMG in 6 seconds
compare that to no crit overall dmg and you get 12.69k – 8.9k = 4k dmg. You make 4k more damage with criticals in the comparative 6seconds.
Overall, SB does an average 12.69k DMG in 6 seconds to a mob and kills it with traits of 30/30/10/0/0 with 3.4k attack, 46% crits, and 54% crit damage (I didn’t solve for precise 54% crit damage increase b/c crit damage also has a randomizing dmg factor included so I made an even approximation)
2nd test: Longbow on lvl 80 mobs in Frostgorge (regular non veteran class)
- LB has a slower rate of fire than SB, but deals more singular dmg over 1000 units range
Since there is no condition damage for LB we will disregard that and we will look at Hunter’s Shot, Rapid Fire, and Long Range Shot.
I killed the same type of mob in 7 seconds at 1000+ ranged using Hunter’s Shot (10% dmg increase for 8seconds due to vulnerability status) first then QZ + RF. RF does 10 shots in 4 and a half seconds w/o QZ so with QZ is does 10 shots in 2 and a quarter seconds with QZ leaving 1 and 3/4 seconds to do a skill with QZ. RF has 10 shots and QZ lasts for 4 seconds. Each shot with RF on this mob hits around 400 per hit at 1000+ range w/o Hunter’s shot so with Hunter’s Shot which add’s 10% dmg 10% of 400 = 40; 400 + 40 = 440. Long Ranged Shot does approximately 900 dmg at 1000+ range and it takes 1 shot per second. With Hunter’s Shot, Long Ranged Shot does 990 dmg at 1000+ range. Hunter’s Shot does a dmg of approximately 550.
Let’s assume we don’t get crits: in 7 seconds to the kill the mob, we have 8 seconds vulnerability 4 seconds of QZ. In 2 and a quarter seconds we deal RF dmg of 440 × 10 = 4.4k dmg without crits + Hunter’s Shot dmg (550 dmg) (1 second interval between Hunter’s Shot and RF + QZ) + 1 and 3/4 second of QZ (So far total of seconds is 5seconds) so 2 seconds left which makes 3 Long Range Shots. 3 Long Range Shots is 990 dmg each so 990 × 3 = 2.77k damage.
Test DMG #1 = 4.4k + 2.77k + 550 = 4.95k + 2.77k = 7.72k dmg without crits.
Test DMG #2 we’re including crits and again we’ll be setting up the same scenario of crits ratio as the SB test to keep fairness and precise results.
Let’s say that 5/10 RF shots are crits. One RF shot crit is approximately 950 dmg so 950 × 5 = 4.75k. 4.75k + 440(5) = 4.75k + 2.2k = 6.95k RF dmg. Hunter’s Shot so happens to crit so its crit damage is 1k. 2/3 Long Range Shots so happen to crit as well so each shot is critted is 2.1k dmg. So 4.2k + 990 = 5.19k dmg
Overall DMG with crits for LB = 6.95k + 1k + 5.19k = 7.95k + 5.19k = 13.14k dmg overall in 7seconds to kill the enemy.
So in essence, with an even amount of crits and regular damage at 1000+ range, LB does 13.14k dmg in 7 seconds
12.69k DMG in 6 seconds SB vs. 13.14k dmg in 7 seconds LB. In one second difference, LB at a longer range does .31 + .14 = .45k = 450 dmg more than the SB, but with one second overage on the same mob with overall the same crit ratio (dmg) as SB.
TL:DR One thing to note is that with the LB, the damage is considerably higher than damage with SB in a sense that if crits were to increase constantly for both SB and LB; imagine a line graph with the slope increasing at a constant positive, LB would have a higher slope for damage output than SB because since damage output per crit is higher with higher singular damage (which the LB has) than in the long run, LB beats out SB in dps output when it comes to crits at 1000+ range.
To put it simply, if you were to utilize this in WvW, LB has better usage as a sniping weapon and good AoE support than SB and SB has better single opponent DPS output at a closer range than LB. There’s really no point in dictating the damage output for both LB and SB when clearly they have specialized purposes for each in their own regard.
This argument is futile because so many variables are accounted for: play style, traits, gear, enemy gear, enemy skill. You really can’t put a number on these things, you have to either adapt to your surroundings and utilize what you are good at. I don’t see a point for even belittling LB or SB. You’re only making yourself look like someone who just wants to be a jerk for no good reason; aka an immature kid just causing unnecessary trouble on the forums.
LB and SB are good just the way they are in their own respects so stop arguing about something mundane and get to doing bigger and better things. Thank you.
1) Longbow gives 10 stacks of vulnerability – It’s not all about you.
2) Barrage is very effective area denial – It’s not all about the dps.
3) Knockback forces people to fight away from cliffs/water/etc – Indirect area denial
What someone said earlier about shortbow always doing more damage is correct. You will do more damage from 4 seconds of shortbow primary attack than 4 seconds of longbow Rapid Fire in a fairyland where damage is all that counts. Double stacking vulnerability (there is a 3 seconds overlap with the bow CDR trait) on someone under barrage and then switching to sword does even more.
As someone above also said (and was ignored), longbow is a tactical weapon. You should be using it to set up your other weapon set and help team mates, instead of standing on the highest hilltop you can find pretending you’re Legolas.
Indeed tactical weapon: with hawks eye u can barrage(cripple) put on a vulnerability stack and around do 12k dmg with rapid fire from up to 1500- 1600 range ( even further away if u stand higher). After that swap for your dps weapon (in my case shortbow) and after 30 – 45 sec make the tactical descision to use your longbow effects again.
also: standing from 1500 range in pve dungeon bosses equals to almost no aggro meaning one less to join some estafet run (some bosses).
So, Just my two cents.
I personally enjoy the Longbow in WvWvW. I’ve yet to do sPvP, but I’d imagine the Shortbow is superior there based on general facts. In PvE solo content, I find that the Shortbow is superior simply because It’s a bit harder to stay at max range the deeper you go into highly traffic’d mob areas.
Is is a bit lack luster? I suppose. I wish I had a reliable bleed or poison, but i digress.
To those of you saying that you get ONLY 3K in a RF… I’m level 55 currently and have played WvWvW consistently since level 10. I have lackluster gear because RNG hates me, and I still get about 3-4k per RF on REAL level 80’s. Geared or not, the fact that I can get 3-4k on someone who has superior gear level wise, says that the longbow is a lot more effective than the Zealots defending the shortbow.
Also, I play a Sniper role when defending, or attacking in WvWvW. I can pick off players fleeing the wall, or those trying to fall back on a wall out of sight. The further they run from me, the more damage I do. So although I may not be doing as much sustained damage as a SB could, I outrange, and arguable, out utility the shortbow, in terms of the Group and not the single person.
With level 40 ish Gear on, my Longbow crits at max range are about 1.5-2.5k on people who are natural 80s and not just WvW boosted.
If you dont know how to use the Longbow, dont use it
Longbow= Tactical Weapon
Shortbow= Skirmish Weapon
Thats not how it should be, atleast not for the longbow. Longbow should be positional and heavily damaging. Atm its positional, and mediocre damage.
AH saying that rapid fire + QZ is our biggest burst might be debateable, Im a longbow man myself but QZ+Crossfire is about equal with rapid fire. Stupid but true. Longbow needs love.
Longbow + Greatsword and i do just fine in spvp wvw and pve
small change maybe is needed but i disagree that LB is so underpowered as ppl think
AH saying that rapid fire + QZ is our biggest burst might be debateable, Im a longbow man myself but QZ+Crossfire is about equal with rapid fire. Stupid but true. Longbow needs love.
QZ + rapid fire being equal to QZ + crossfire isn’t a problem.. the shortbow doesn’t have anything like rapid fire, all its damage comes from crossfire, so imo crossfire should do at least as much damage as long range shot, it’s just that rapid fire in general should do more damage than it does now, and long range shot should do equal the damage to crossfire.
I don’t think anything is going to change now though, because longbow is fine for its purpose, it’s just not useful for anything else except that purpose, and that is annoying to people who want to use it as a main weapon.
Longbow is just something you have as a secondary weapon set in WvW or something you use against stationary dungeon bosses, you’ll never be able to actually kill anything with it though, it just adds a bit support damage while keeping you safe so your mates don’t have to revive you. Anet overnerfed the bow before release, decreasing its damage greatly, I don’t know why. They did a decent job balancing the shortbow, but they probably should have waited with nerfing the longbow so fast.
(edited by Zsymon.8457)
Keep in mind though, shortbow direct damage has to be quite high, because its bleed condition damage can be completely negated to 0 simply by facing the ranger. A lot of rangers go for power/crit because condition builds are not viable against good players, all they have to do to win is have low enough lag to be able to face the ranger at all times, since the condition ranger will do no damage at all then.
(edited by Zsymon.8457)
has anyone tried LB with a melee evasion tank (sword/dagger)? something like 30/20/5/0/15, which gives you survivability and burst through pet swapping. on paper it looks great.
You can’t use sword in pvp because it roots you, it basically gives your opponent a free immobilize on you. Even if you turn off auto attack, each individual part of the chain still roots you for its duration. You can’t move or even dodge while auto attacking with the sword, so there is not much evasion to be had.
i use sword/dagger/SB with great effectiveness. anyone else try the LB evasion tank build? unless youve tried that build or something similar, you cant really complain about LB.
Zsymon…you’ll never be able to actually kill anything with it though…
That must come as tremendous comfort to the dozens of people I kill daily with it.
i lovee longbow. I don’t bother with shortbow. I think people are just going back and forth. It all comes down to your play style and strategies/tactics. Longbow is more thinking and staying at safe ranges. I am pretty much the only player who doesn’t die in a team in a dungeon because of the longbow. When I’m serious and know I’m up against quite powerful enemies haha I think, position myself and use the longbow.
I think the characteristics I see it in my playing is steady damage over time while staying alive. You’re playing it slow and safe while killing off your targets. For me its been exceptionally maneuverable except for Barrage where you are rooted for a bit. Not too long tho once the shot is done the arrows still rain down and you can move and throw out other skills.
I exclusively keep my longbow for tactical stuff, if it comes down to AoE you only have barrage to work with, maybe your traps if your running with traps. If you get swarmed, you’d have to switch out of longbow. other than that, I’d say longbow is a specialized useful weapon if you use it for its advantages. Lay down traps, and eat away at their life steadily from a far distance. Keep them far and you’ll see the longbows effectiveness.
I don’t think its about how much damage when you compare SB and LB etc but the specialization and the tactics involved. I’m sure SB users will also use it to its advantage
I like the shortbow more, i used to like the longbow because of barrage and the look of the weapon but after all this debate i been reading i decided to give the shortbow a try and it rocks!. I can kite a lot better with shortbow and kill enemies faster, i still like to use the longbow in WvW but overall the game has become much easier and enjoyable to play with the shortbow for me.
I personally prefer the Shortbow. The shortbow does more damage and I tend to find more use of its abilities. I only use the longbow as a back-up in dungeons and PvP.
Zsymon…you’ll never be able to actually kill anything with it though…
That must come as tremendous comfort to the dozens of people I kill daily with it.
You must be quite an amazing player to be able to defeat players one on one with a longbow. Many don’t have any problems beating two longbow rangers at once, as long as the rangers don’t switch to shortbow.
Longbow does no damage at close range, and in no one on one fight will you ever be able to keep your opponent at 1000 range, it’s just not meant to be used in duels.
(edited by Zsymon.8457)
You must be quite an amazing player to be able to defeat players one on one with a longbow. Many don’t have any problems beating two longbow rangers at once, as long as the rangers don’t switch to shortbow.
Longbow does no damage at close range, and in no one on one fight will you ever be able to keep your opponent at 1000 range, it’s just not meant to be used in duels.
Anyone who doesn’t use weapon swapping is doing it wrong, though.
You might be right that longbow isn’t strong in duels. Aside from that, you don’t have to be an amazing player to pile up kills with longbow. I get two or three kills at a time when I pop my root and then barrage the people in the root. It’s a bag festival.
In addition, the longbow gets you kills at structures. In WvW, it’s all about structures. You can kill people on the walls with barrage, rapid fire, qz…When you’re defending it’s easy to find the guys running around in front of the gate with half life and then melt them down with rapid fire. When their corpse hits the ground you drop a barrage on them and pick off the heros. I’m not an amazing player and longbow racks up a bunch of kills there. Longbow really shines defending a bridge or a straight line with piercing arrows. You can stay outside of 1200 range and do AOE damage to everyone coming down the bridge. I don’t know how many bags I’ve piled up doing this, but it’s a lot.
Saying Longbow doesn’t net kills is just plain wrong. If you learn to use it, the longbow shines in a lot of situations.
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