Guild Wars 2

Kichwas.7152:

You can play it. You can also run around in your underwear and a pink quaggan backpack in Orr shouting “WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS” while hitting mobs with a level 1 stick.

But you aren’t promised to be effective when you opt for foolish. :P

If you think that’s ArenaNet being two-faced, you’re in need a serious reality check on how the world works.

Some play choices will work, and some won’t – but you can still do them. Each class has optimal ways it will function, and ways at which it is less than ideal.

In the real world we call it a “bait & switch” when we are sold one thing but receive something else, usually of lesser value, instead. Anet sold the ranger class as being the master of the bow. That’s their words. Not mine. I’ll paste it for you again, “Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.” which, of course, is true that given enough time you will eventually bring things down. Where that statement is not true: the warrior is more than parallel with the ranger on the long bow and the theif is at least parallel with the ranger on the short bow. Of course, that is my opinion from experience playing all three classes.

I see no bait and switch. I see ‘reading too much into something’.

When Frank tells Alice: :To the Moon Alice! Too the Moon!
- She doesn’t call it bait and switch when he fails to deliver.

When they say play how you want – that doesn’t include obvious bad play being just as good as obvious good play.

Its like how, in kindergarden, the teach tells you you’re a special snowflake. Well honey, you ain’t.

And when they say ‘everyone is entitled to an opinion’ to all the little kiddies now… well child, only one opinion in any debate is ever actually right – and often none of them are. Debate is the cruel wall of reality smashing into the face okittendergarden 80s-90s ‘special snowflake’ teaching.

Yes you can play as you like – but you won’t be as good.

Reality melts the special snowflakes.

I suppose then they shouldn’t have sold the class as a master of bows then. Should have sold it as a beastmaster melee class. Then there wouldn’t be any confusion.

Nothing wrong with bow. But many people use it and the pet with it wrongly.

My initial attempt at humor has trapped my comments above into a bit of a snarky attitude that I think has me losing track of the point I’d wanted to make.

- Look through the skills on the bow, look through the pets, find compliments in terms of conditions that work well when both on the enemy at the same time, or other playstyle aspects that can boost performance.

My hunter comment refers to the people that get a bow, get a ‘tanky pet’ and stand way back there spamming a few keys while trying to have the pet hold aggro. Often the pet is chosen for cosmetics – “cute kitty” or “adorable bear” or “vicious dog” rather than because it does things that fit the build / weapon of that ranger.

- Many “hunter” players also won’t swap their pet until its dead or nearly so. An effective “ranger” player will swap the pet anytime it is beneficial to get their other pet’s skills into play, and the better the player, the better they are at timing this (I personally suck at it and just swap on cooldown so that my pets almost never die, but even this is better than the non-swappers – if I tried that in PvP or WvW, I suspect people would see me as a ‘huntard’…).

“Hunter” as I noted it might better be described as “huntard” because even WoW players who are good at WoW hunter don’t do these mistakes. They maximize the toolsets of that class in that game. But the toolset of ranger here is very different from that of hunter there.

Both are pet using classes on medium armors. Both -can- use bows. But that’s about where it ends.

And WoW has more bad hunter players than GW2 has bad ranger players…

(Or did, before poorly skilled players started switching to DK, though I think many have switched back as DK has not been the shiny new thing for almost 4 years now).

The problem is best summed up as “relying on the pet to play the game for you while yourself doing as little as possible, rather than playing the game by using the pet to maximum potential.”

One trick that helped me in GW2 a lot was rebinding all the F1 – F4 keys to shift-1 through shift-4 – so I can use those keys now as fast as I use my core abilities. For my pet that means switching what it is attacking or triggering the ‘F2’ skill are actions I can do with very little hand-movement (all my keys are actually arranged on a nostromo pad, if not, I’d have rebound everything on my keyboard into a tight circle to keep my fingers from needing to stretch).

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Yes bosses have aoe that doesn’t mean your pet has to die. I have no points in beastmaster and it very rare that my pets are out of commision. Guard gives 10seconds of protection. Very few bosses kill pets with a single aoe if they have protection. With a 15 second recharge your pet is without it for 5 seconds not including the 2 seconds you can get from dodge if traited.

If you dont want to use guard fine, but dont kitten that your unable to keep your pets alive and are unwilling to keep you damage % up. Becuase you have chosen to use some other skill that cant compare to keeping your pet alive.

This is direct at you Taran Redleaf but all those rangers who dont even try to keep thier pets up or let them sit there like a dead arm.

What you’re saying is we have a choice between giving up 33% of our utility skills or 50% of our damage output. If no other class is forced to make that decision, why should rangers?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Leaving this here, and waiting for Anet to actually fix the bows.

stale.9785:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Leaving this here, and waiting for Anet to actually fix the bows.

I’d expect to see a snowball stand a chance in magma before they would alter the bow to do more damage, or at least, comparable damage or functionality to that of a warrior’s.

Kichwas.7152:

Nothing wrong with bow. But many people use it and the pet with it wrongly.

My initial attempt at humor has trapped my comments above into a bit of a snarky attitude that I think has me losing track of the point I’d wanted to make.

- Look through the skills on the bow, look through the pets, find compliments in terms of conditions that work well when both on the enemy at the same time, or other playstyle aspects that can boost performance.

My hunter comment refers to the people that get a bow, get a ‘tanky pet’ and stand way back there spamming a few keys while trying to have the pet hold aggro. Often the pet is chosen for cosmetics – “cute kitty” or “adorable bear” or “vicious dog” rather than because it does things that fit the build / weapon of that ranger.

- Many “hunter” players also won’t swap their pet until its dead or nearly so. An effective “ranger” player will swap the pet anytime it is beneficial to get their other pet’s skills into play, and the better the player, the better they are at timing this (I personally suck at it and just swap on cooldown so that my pets almost never die, but even this is better than the non-swappers – if I tried that in PvP or WvW, I suspect people would see me as a ‘huntard’…).

“Hunter” as I noted it might better be described as “huntard” because even WoW players who are good at WoW hunter don’t do these mistakes. They maximize the toolsets of that class in that game. But the toolset of ranger here is very different from that of hunter there.

Both are pet using classes on medium armors. Both -can- use bows. But that’s about where it ends.

And WoW has more bad hunter players than GW2 has bad ranger players…

(Or did, before poorly skilled players started switching to DK, though I think many have switched back as DK has not been the shiny new thing for almost 4 years now).

The problem is best summed up as “relying on the pet to play the game for you while yourself doing as little as possible, rather than playing the game by using the pet to maximum potential.”

One trick that helped me in GW2 a lot was rebinding all the F1 – F4 keys to shift-1 through shift-4 – so I can use those keys now as fast as I use my core abilities. For my pet that means switching what it is attacking or triggering the ‘F2’ skill are actions I can do with very little hand-movement (all my keys are actually arranged on a nostromo pad, if not, I’d have rebound everything on my keyboard into a tight circle to keep my fingers from needing to stretch).

So, if you aren’t a beastmaster melee ranger, you aren’t playing the class right. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

lol, the title to this thread is a question, but the first sentence by the OP is a stubborn answer that declares anyone thinking otherwise is stupid.

Oh internet, why do so many people become rock-headed jerks as soon as they connect to you?

x2 altruism runes – aoe sharing of boons (x3 aoe might)
x4 pack runes – aoe sharing of boons (fury swiftness might)

and if u run 15nm trait u share all of this with your pet and it’s actually double to your pet because you get it and share to your pet and pet also gets initially too , so its double boons – which i think alot of people don’t even realize/forget and is actually a good setup for a bm roaming spec.

moa pet w/ fury and jungle stalker pet with mightx5 (if u have enough might gen, jus run regen hound)

bird swap vigor trait

healing spring w/ vigor trait gives party member’s vigor AND regen on renewal when standing in it.

i agree that we dont have the best immediate boon sharing, but boon sharing can be accomplished with the ranger class.

darkace.8925:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

Yes bosses have aoe that doesn’t mean your pet has to die. I have no points in beastmaster and it very rare that my pets are out of commision. Guard gives 10seconds of protection. Very few bosses kill pets with a single aoe if they have protection. With a 15 second recharge your pet is without it for 5 seconds not including the 2 seconds you can get from dodge if traited.

If you dont want to use guard fine, but dont kitten that your unable to keep your pets alive and are unwilling to keep you damage % up. Becuase you have chosen to use some other skill that cant compare to keeping your pet alive.

This is direct at you Taran Redleaf but all those rangers who dont even try to keep thier pets up or let them sit there like a dead arm.

What you’re saying is we have a choice between giving up 33% of our utility skills or 50% of our damage output. If no other class is forced to make that decision, why should rangers?

We are not other classes. Every class has thier cross to bear. Thieves have stealth skills. So yes you need to (only if your unable to keep your pet alive without it) use a utility skill to keep your pet up but you are also keeping your access to both of your pet skill and ablities.

I am also able to choose my role. I am not require or expected to run a bunker or heal build like Guardians. One of the great things about being a Ranger is that we do everything fairly well. While other classes might excel in one area they really fall off in others.

People harp on Anet definition of the ranger and one line in particular “Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.”

So are those of you who crying saying you cant bring down a foe at a distance. Oh I understand. Your saying that the other bow users have better skills (which is debatable). So the fact that a thief cant hit a single target makes him a better archer. I think not. Archery is about hit your target at the greatest distance. Ranger do this, not only that they are able to use both types of bows.

I also what to point out that rangers are suppose to be able to adapt to any situation.

Rangers dont suck in dungeons. It’s not the class it’s peoples’ reception of the class.
If your a Ranger and you think Ranger’s suck. Do me a favor take the time to really learn the class or just leave the class all together. Because its bad players that really hurt the class more than anything else.

thefantasticg.3984:

Kichwas.7152:

Nothing wrong with bow. But many people use it and the pet with it wrongly.

So, if you aren’t a beastmaster melee ranger, you aren’t playing the class right. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

Funny I distinctly recall NOT saying that.

Why can I use the same gear and trait spread in WvW and PvE with my Guardian, Necromancer, Mesmer and Engineer but need new gear and a respec with Ranger?

That is your answer, some players really don’t like that! Its one thing to change traits and utilities and switch out weapon sets but needing a completely new set from A to Z and a respec just to play each part of the game!!! NO!

I don’t need to respec my ranger – I use same build for dungs, pve, wvw…
I have no idea why ANet changed description at their page but originally it was this:
“Rangers are flexible and durable—proficient with the bow, yet surgical with the sword. They rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature to slay their targets. Their loyal pets, which rangers tame and train, distract enemies while the rangers strike safely from a distance”

and was also quote at the begining about biscuits
to all discussion about from where “rangers” in fantasy games came I just sent you google frase “Rangers of the North” and “Rangers of Ithilien” – from mixing those groups D&D have inspiration to their rangers.

as from pet tanking… Usually I’m this “tanky” and pet are this “dps’ing” in our relationship my role is distract enemies from my pet so he could dps’ing bleeding etc. with no problem – You know 2k toughness
problem starts with zerg fights at wvw – there is nearly no possibility to have pet live too long in this mass AoE fights. but rangers isn’t made for mass zerg figths – warrior and guardian are purely made for this and spellcasters are for support their effords – but not rangers. but ranger role at wvw isn’t topic here so let’s back to the Dungeons.

I had play many many dungeons and if I was kicked from party – so once I was kicked because I wanted to do AC explo with 40 lvl so reason was lvl not class.
I’ve never been kicked for being rangers and I’ve seen a lot of both noobie rangers and good rangers. (once I’ve seen ranger with axe+warhorn/shortbow at CoF p1 – in fight with effigy he was striking boss from sb staing at nearly melee range – and was dying often) I also seen glass canon rangers that didn’t died once through all the AC explo.
I also have made AC explo with 4rangers+mes party with no problem and get wiped in 4warriors+ranger one.

as a ranger in dungs I have also situations when fighting finall boss (in AC again ) when all party get died and only me still standing – and I revived all party then to kill that boss

That’s all I wanted to say and If I forgot about someyhing I’ll post it later

“Rangers are flexible and durable—proficient with the bow, yet surgical with the sword.”

If surgeons wield scalpels the way that rangers wield swords ….

Kasama.8941:

Chopps.5047:

In general, Kasama, you’re correct about drakes. I should point out that other pets have their place. For example, dogs work well against nightmare hounds in TA because there’s usually too many dogs to keep up endurance to dodge knockdowns so CC’ing them first really helps. Red moa gives 15s of fury and a melee range AoE heal that’s roughly 3,000 health that’s not bad, really. For high single target dps (simin arah p4) you can’t reall beat a cat with quickening zephyr. But I agree, cats are tough to deal with when you have little healing power.

I personally disagree. The only pets I’ve found useful in dungeons, are those that can survive for a long time. Bears are great for short term tanking or reviving with “Search and Rescue”, spiders are great for ranged damage and when AoE is a problem since they don’t move as much, and drakes are great for burst damage and AoE damage. That’s all I ever use in dungeons.

Against nightmare hounds, the River Drake is arguably more useful, as it will kill the dogs faster, thanks to Lighting Breath. All you have to do, is use Entangle or Frost Trap to lock them down, and then use your AoE attacks from off-hand axe and longbow, together with Lighting Breath. The Red Moa will probably get to heal you once before it’s dead. Fury you can already get from warhorn, and healing you can do with Healing Spring+combo finishers. If defense is needed, I’d much rather use a bear for short term tanking, or for using “Search and Rescue” with. For high damage, I find the drakes are much better in dungeons. Their F2 skills deals the highest damage of all the pets, and they can survive for longer, which means more total damage output, compared to a feline that normally only lives for half as long. Many players also don’t know that the drakes have the third highest auto-attack damage, after felines and birds.

Your pets die because you don’t have the right traits. Try Bark Skin or Natural Healing and you’ll be amazed at the difference. This is exactly the reason beastmaster builds are better in dungeons right now, in my honest opinion. Yes, run zerker or rampager gear, but you’ll be very strong with 0/10 (agility training for faster pet recall…usually when you press Call Back your pet is in cleave range or on an aoe circle so you want it to move quickly)/30 (offhand training/bark skin)/0/30 (Natural healing, rending attacks, commanding voice)

stale.9785:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Leaving this here, and waiting for Anet to actually fix the bows.

What’s wrong with bows?

@Chops I also have no idea whats wrong with them…

EDIT:

“Rangers are flexible and durable—proficient with the bow, yet surgical with the sword.”

If surgeons wield scalpels the way that rangers wield swords ….

You know maybe that’s about precision of slashes?
You don’t have to take all so literally…

I’m going to assume… that the changes to how a team “Dies” in a dungeon is another big factor in why Non-Rangers, and “Zerker” builds in general are seen as so much better than Tanky, Survivalist, & Healer builds.

Before this change… a “Survivalist” Ranger was still considered a very solid addition to any Dungeon that had a long run back to the Boss-Fight from the Respawn WP. …so was a cautious Guardian. Upon returning on MY Guardian, I’m discovering that even the once MOST demanded Class-Build in the game, is now considered sub-par. This makes me a lot angrier at the community in general than it does at Anet speifically.

I built my Guardian for Dungeons and team support… nothing else. When GW2 launched, having 2 or even 3 of us in a party was still considered a Net-Gain b/c everyone didn’t have every single dungeon boiled down to it’s most barebones Exploits at that point. So everyone was just “learning” the dungeons at that time and NEEDED those extra buffer zones that us surivival & support guys provided.

This is mostly a community-inflicted Wound here IMO. It’s really no wonder that Anet has completely stopped most of its own support of Dungeons now. (no responses in that sub forum for 7 months I’m told… exactly how long I took a vacation from the game). There might be some things the Devs * could * do to open Dungeons back up but this whole “reduce HP’s of some bosses but don’t let anyone respawn till the whole party wipes” was actually one of the more common community Requests IIRC…

The community sometimes gets exactly what it asks for, but then it just taints it…
Dungeons, and the Ranger, probably won’t really be fixed until Anet figures out a way to fix them that won’t just get instantly tainted.

(also…)
(they apparently forgot to cut “Defiance” on the Bosses in half…)
(y’know… so we could actually stand a chance of CC’ing them)

@ilr I understand Your pain guy – I wanted to be spirit supporter ended as somekind of warden-beastmaster (still fun but not this what I always wanted to do as a ranger)
anyway one thing that is still actual that I always want to play survival guy – I would load every trait and statistic to boost survival of my character – but on now I can see that if GW2 will follow that direction people like me will be overhelmed by the mass of zerkers and very not usable

still that patch about respawn blockade have one thing that is on plus of survi guys – You can always be this last man standing and rezz all the party saving it before complete wipe (I’ve done that once) – You know there is something in that ppl are considering some builds as “sub-par” ar useless until the situation when person with that build will save them from complete loose (just for example in GW1 I had a friend that was playing PvP as a Paragon-healer – ppl was always crying about “kitteny member” until it turns that this “kitteny member” keeps them alive )
yeah I love offtopic

Well that was my next question…

How Viable would ranger actually be at getting dead people back up in combat?
Even with Quickness, it feels REALLY REALLY slow still for me. Is there any Trait/Gear specs that would make it viable or are we just plain doomed b/c most of the people that always die in our party, always died right in Melee Range to the boss (and no one else can pull the boss out that range?).

Is it even possible to Taxi ourselves back “out of combat” in a fight to regain that triple Rezzing speed? I’m guessing it’s not? When anyone in our party is still in Combat, we can’t even switch skills now? (there goes my old Sure-fire tactic for beating Lupicus by switching skills between stage 2 & 3!!)

ilr.9675:

Well that was my next question…

How Viable would ranger actually be at getting dead people back up in combat?
Even with Quickness, it feels REALLY REALLY slow still for me. Is there any Trait/Gear specs that would make it viable or are we just plain doomed b/c most of the people that always die in our party, always died right in Melee Range to the boss (and no one else can pull the boss out that range?).

Is it even possible to Taxi ourselves back “out of combat” in a fight to regain that triple Rezzing speed? I’m guessing it’s not? When anyone in our party is still in Combat, we can’t even switch skills now? (there goes my old Sure-fire tactic for beating Lupicus by switching skills between stage 2 & 3!!)

Would be neat if the devs included this in the Nature Magic tree line right. Maybe combine it with a good spirit build.

ilr.9675:

Well that was my next question…

How Viable would ranger actually be at getting dead people back up in combat?
Even with Quickness, it feels REALLY REALLY slow still for me. Is there any Trait/Gear specs that would make it viable or are we just plain doomed b/c most of the people that always die in our party, always died right in Melee Range to the boss (and no one else can pull the boss out that range?).

Is it even possible to Taxi ourselves back “out of combat” in a fight to regain that triple Rezzing speed? I’m guessing it’s not? When anyone in our party is still in Combat, we can’t even switch skills now? (there goes my old Sure-fire tactic for beating Lupicus by switching skills between stage 2 & 3!!)

I can tell You because I once have been forced to this
1. Only rangers that have many many toughness can be viable in rezzing dead teammates.
2. Start rezzing from the guys that have some rez bar replenished (if no one have just start that one that seems to be most usefull
3. Distract Boss – that’s very important – Sometimes sacrifice Pet to stop boss for a phew second behind is very good option – Spirits also can be helpfull there (if you don’t have Spirit Unbound trait)
4. Don’t let boss hit you when You are rezzing – If boss comes – go to the next member trying to slow down boss in the middletime
unfortunatelly none of this advises can make it when You face AC bosses called “Ghost Eater” nor “Colussus Rumblus” and party get wiped with only You standing – that was possible before the patches that make them “killable by method” – Ghost Eater just will spam with deadly AoE and Colussus are making his AoE on the whole room – not only in ring at 1200 range of him

My first char was a ranger, my second a warrior, and so on…

I leveled my ranger using only bows. Push, cripple and burst on the LB, stack conditions and, again, cripple with the SB. With my trusty bear in their face or my spider immobilizing them mobs rarely even touched me, while I (slowly?) needled them to death. It felt good, somehow well rounded and DPS wasn’t an issue.

Greatsword felt like a pointless departure from the play style (why would I wanna get close?!).
Sword was downright goofy (ok… now I’m not just close, I’m rooted to the effin ground with the enemy in my face!).
At the time axe felt, well, redundant – a bit more AoE perhaps, but nothing that LB/SB didn’t offer, with the latter being somehow more sound conceptually. Now, returning to my ranger and trying to come up with a sound end game build that fits me, I see how axe/torch might be useful, as axe benefits from condition damage and offers said AoE, so I will be replacing LB with it as a main combo.

Having played a GS warrior to lvl 80 and 95% map completion (but, admittedly, with very little experience in dungeons), the only reason I would ever be playing a melee ranger in PvE, ever, would be if something happens to remove warriors from the game and my guild asks me to. I’ve seen all of Strife’s speed runs on youtube – not one melee ranger in sight (or any other ranger for that matter). Warrior DPS is much higher and they don’t have to rely on or babysit an AI. At best my ranger would be a second tier replacement.

I know people play BM rangers in sPvP and the melee damage is higher than the ranged one. I know damage rules in late game PvE. I don’t care. I choose to play my ranger as I like. If I wanted to swing a sword at stuff I would not be playing a ranger to begin with.

Who knows, perhaps someday ANet will decide what they want us to be or they’ll make condition builds more effective… Here’s hoping.

Criticize the design and balance of Rangers in regards to dungeons, and immediately the ‘blame the victim’ effect comes out.

“Ranger’s don’t suck, you do”

I have played pet classes in several MMOs simply because I like pet classes.

Here are some simple universal truths about pet classes:

1. Devs will NEVER allow pet classes to be on par DPS wise with direct damage classes. In RNDnets case pets have sub par combat AI, ranged pets position themselves within melee/cleave range of foes, and AOEs totally counter them.

2. Devs will ALWAYS nerf a pet class if it becomes very successful in PVP. Just what RNDnet is doing now, except past nerfs all carried over to PVE. To my knowledge all Ranger nerfs handed out in the past to balance PVP were also applied to PVE and to date none of those nerfs have ever been removed in PVE. Nerfs only to PVP seem to be the exception, not the rule. They won’t stop until tournament rosters are devoid of Rangers. Look at the most current tournaments to see a trend of fewer Rangers than there used to be.

RNDnet will never even admit there is a problem with ranger’s being dungeon benchwarmers. They have officially stated several times the official party line which is all classes are viable in PVE and hence dungeons.

I completely disagree, with their assessment, I reject blaming the victim.

I still have fun playing my Ranger despite all the douchbaggery aimed our way, be it the intentional acts of idiots or the benign neglect of RNDnet.

There is one thing terribly wrong with ranged attacks in this game, that is that there are so many more ways to counter them than there are with melee attacks.

I have all 8 professions and all level 80, but I enjoy ranger the most.

I like attacking from a distance and then jumping into the melee. Staying ranged is pretty boring, so I like to beat the hell out of things up close.

Jalad Lantana.3027:

I still have fun playing my Ranger despite all the douchbaggery aimed our way, be it the intentional acts of idiots or the benign neglect of RNDnet.

There was this punk named Yui something (Japanese sounding name) on the server Maguuma and we were running CoF path 1. He said something along the lines of wanting props for not auto-kicking me from the group at the start.

I asked him why he doesn’t like rangers, he said they are ALL bad.

At the end, we ran the path in a pretty fast time, even with a newbie in the group (not me). I asked him jokingly if I was bad, and he said “not as bad as others.” The prick was saying that I was bad but not as bad as others. (I’m not a bad player, if you can believe that)

The dude was being a punk the entire time.

So watch out for a character named Yui (something Japanese sounding). He/she is a major douchbag.

Rangers (the prof) doesn’t suck in dungeons, is it in the stupid speed clearin meta? No, but who cares?

Now rangers (community) do suck in dungeons from my experience, they’ll either 1) let pet die in every kittening encounter 2) have pet sit on passive on every kittening encounter 3) try to stand up on some ledge where mobs will ignore them, this making us have to deal with mechanics as if we’re a man down, and just go “Lawlz I do bow dmgz GUYZ!!”

God… kitten ranger pugs… I hate them so much….

Taran Redleaf.7912:

Could a Ranger play melee instead of bow? Yes. But what if you wanted to play an Archer – what profession do you pick? ArenaNet describes the “master of the bow” as the Ranger. But the Ranger’s “mastery of the bow” is not working.

This, pretty much. I like to play ranged characters. I have in every online game I played, and I hate the idea that ranged weapons are just something to use until the enemy happens to get close enough to switch to your REAL weapon or for extremely situational/quirky encounters.

I’m probably one of the ‘bad’ rangers in peoples’ eyes because I will not use a melee weapon unless a very specific circumstance comes up in which I absolutely have to (and I will be extremely annoyed in such cases). But quite frankly, if it comes down to “Melee or get out”, I’ll take the latter option. The main selling point of rangers to me was 2 (default) 1200-range weapons + Eagle-eye. If the class was never intended to be able to stay at a range and fight (and given the way the Risen behave, that does seem to be the case), then I consider that a massive failing on ANET’s part, as the lack of a class that is designed for this purpose pretty much means there’s no place for me here. I’ve tried R/LB Warrior and SB/P-P Thief, and while the mobility is a lot closer to what I wanted in the latter’s case (though still not ideal), they still seem massively kitten. :-(

Kichwas.7152:

Second hint: If you picked your pet based which one looked cool, you’re probably playing a hunter.

But they make me use a pet and you can’t transmute a cat, so… >_>

Durzlla.6295:

Now rangers (community) do suck in dungeons from my experience, they’ll either 1) let pet die in every kittening encounter 2) have pet sit on passive on every kittening encounter 3) try to stand up on some ledge where mobs will ignore them, this making us have to deal with mechanics as if we’re a man down, and just go “Lawlz I do bow dmgz GUYZ!!”

This!
Nothing more horrific than a ranger, standing in 1500 range with LB, thinking “pewpewpew” and doing no damage, with a bear, doing no damage. This Videos shows the Problem:

“We got a bear, alright”

Dark Saviour.9410:

Taran Redleaf.7912:

Could a Ranger play melee instead of bow? Yes. But what if you wanted to play an Archer – what profession do you pick? ArenaNet describes the “master of the bow” as the Ranger. But the Ranger’s “mastery of the bow” is not working.

This, pretty much. I like to play ranged characters. I have in every online game I played, and I hate the idea that ranged weapons are just something to use until the enemy happens to get close enough to switch to your REAL weapon or for extremely situational/quirky encounters.

I’m probably one of the ‘bad’ rangers in peoples’ eyes because I will not use a melee weapon unless a very specific circumstance comes up in which I absolutely have to (and I will be extremely annoyed in such cases). But quite frankly, if it comes down to “Melee or get out”, I’ll take the latter option. The main selling point of rangers to me was 2 (default) 1200-range weapons + Eagle-eye. If the class was never intended to be able to stay at a range and fight (and given the way the Risen behave, that does seem to be the case), then I consider that a massive failing on ANET’s part, as the lack of a class that is designed for this purpose pretty much means there’s no place for me here. I’ve tried R/LB Warrior and SB/P-P Thief, and while the mobility is a lot closer to what I wanted in the latter’s case (though still not ideal), they still seem massively kitten. :-(

Kichwas.7152:

Second hint: If you picked your pet based which one looked cool, you’re probably playing a hunter.

But they make me use a pet and you can’t transmute a cat, so… >_>

This guy gets it. Anet screwed the pooch hard when they broke ranged combat.

ranged atacks deals less damage to melee because its ranged – renged You can hit enemy while he as the melee cannot yet (and good ranger can make that point when he will be in a position to hit never happens)
still – tell whatever You want I make much grater dps with longbow than with any melee weapon

At the risk of saying things that have already been said. I have an opinion as to why Ranger’s are normally on the “Don’t Call” list for dungeons.

1. Ranged combat draws little (if any) agro and sharing the damage is important in GW2. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been the only melee in the group. And its tough. People want other melee builds to spread the damage out. Its annoying having to run behind everyone because you’re out of tricks only to have the monster pull out a ranged weapon and try to pick you off instead of anyone else currently dishing out copious amounts of damage.

Now there have been times when a Ranger’s pet has tanked a few monsters and that’s always useful. It doesn’t happen often enough to be reliable though, and the pet is something that could be easily re-summoned so it can’t be turned into a damage sponge.

2. Ranged combat is much easier than melee. Its a fact. Being in the fray gets you the attention of monsters, but also gives you very little time to react and begs a reaction from everything monsters do. You have to play harder to play melee. And to be honest, whenever I play ranged PvE it feels like cheating.

Because of this learning curve, people who have stuck to ranged combat since release can be slower to react strictly because of the situations you’re put in. If you’re always able to save your dodges for the ONE red circle that comes your way, you’d have a very skewed perception on how many red circles are being tossed about during a fight.

If you play with a Ranger in the group that isn’t doing much, but he doesn’t get downed, you’d figure he’s a good player and the Ranger is a bad class to group with. On the same token:

3. Rangers have a distinct lack of ‘tells’ or projected attacks. In other words, as a player with a Ranger for an ally, I’m not quite sure what you’re doing. At times, Rangers can appear to be doing absolutely nothing. Now that helps greatly in PvP, but not for attracting people’s attention in groups. Couple that with the 1st point I’ve mentioned and it looks really bad for Rangers when the group wipes.

Also, what I’m seeing here is legitimate concerns wrapped in a bunch of “QQ I wanna headshot!” posts. Ranged damage does less than melee for a reason; its ranged. Having range on a target is a distinct defensive advantage that is unable to be ignored. Not only that, but your pet is a very important source of damage as well. S/he can be destroyed, but s/he can also hit like a DPS build on your bunker Ranger.

The benefit of melee is, and should always be, increased damage because the drawback is increased incoming damage…by a LOT.

Yes, the Ranger could use some love. No, not in the damage department.

The problem I have, redscope, is that every other classes ranged damage is higher than the ranger. I understand it’s the skill coefficients. I know that we’re balanced around the pet having 100% uptime and hit rate, so our coefficients HAVE to be low to maintain parity. The fact that you don’t actually get the 100% hitrate or uptime hurts as well.

I would absolutely love to have most of the damage removed from the pet, and put into the ranger. Pets should deal very little damage unless you spec into them – not be a base 40% of my total damage output. If I want to spec into the pet, then I’m giving up somewhere else.

The greater problem of ranged damage being pitiful overall, Red, is that as a warrior, you have double my armour, and triple my HP to play with if I’m playing a ranged class. (ranged class, for this purpose, being bow ranger or staff ele). You also have gap closers that cover more ground and recharge faster than my gap-making ability on the ranged weapons. So, with any range vs. melee battle, what happens is the melee player quickly closes distance, eats virtually no damage, then stomps the ranged player.

This is a problem.

You should either take a lot of damage while you’re trying to close, or the ranged player should have to tools to maintain that range advantage. We don’t have the tools (CC times are far too short, and escapes don’t give enough space) and we don’t have the damage. So anyone playing at range is already playing with a handicap. I just want one of them removed.

Make Long Range Shot apply 1 second of cripple, or hunters shot drop 3 seconds of immobility on a target, and we’re in business. Remove the scaling from Long Range Shot so it doesn’t feed diminishing returns, and we’re in business.

Or, increase our damage to at least match that of ranged thieves/warriors.

Hanging everything on a crappy NPC ally, and shorting us on damage because of it, sucks. Big time. Having the “master of ranged combat” play second fiddle to two other classes at range REALLY sucks. Having combat skewed so that being pelted with arrows is an annoyance, instead of a threat? That’s just sad.

Warrior’s don’t have double the armor of ranger (using base armor) and only 3k more base HP (with is 20%). Longbow has a knockback. Shortbow has an evade jump-back shot that applies swiftness if it hits…oh and you don’t have to be facing the target. You can be running away from someone and shoot this. Your character will turn around, jump away then turn back. Shortbow also has a cripple. Dagger has a cripple and an evade. Sword has a jump back. Axe has chill.

We have plenty of weapons that give us distance as well as let us cover it. This isn’t even taking into account utilities and pets. Thieves and warriors have burst so they have a lot of upfront damage with mediocre sustain. Rangers have better sustain but poorer burst. And that’s the design of the class. You won’t see the numbers of the burst classes…but you also won’t have those periods of someone surviving your burst and your damage is now bleh.

stale.9785:

The problem I have, redscope, is that every other classes ranged damage is higher than the ranger. I understand it’s the skill coefficients. I know that we’re balanced around the pet having 100% uptime and hit rate, so our coefficients HAVE to be low to maintain parity. The fact that you don’t actually get the 100% hitrate or uptime hurts as well.

I would absolutely love to have most of the damage removed from the pet, and put into the ranger. Pets should deal very little damage unless you spec into them – not be a base 40% of my total damage output. If I want to spec into the pet, then I’m giving up somewhere else.

The greater problem of ranged damage being pitiful overall, Red, is that as a warrior, you have double my armour, and triple my HP to play with if I’m playing a ranged class. (ranged class, for this purpose, being bow ranger or staff ele). You also have gap closers that cover more ground and recharge faster than my gap-making ability on the ranged weapons. So, with any range vs. melee battle, what happens is the melee player quickly closes distance, eats virtually no damage, then stomps the ranged player.

This is a problem.

You should either take a lot of damage while you’re trying to close, or the ranged player should have to tools to maintain that range advantage. We don’t have the tools (CC times are far too short, and escapes don’t give enough space) and we don’t have the damage. So anyone playing at range is already playing with a handicap. I just want one of them removed.

Make Long Range Shot apply 1 second of cripple, or hunters shot drop 3 seconds of immobility on a target, and we’re in business. Remove the scaling from Long Range Shot so it doesn’t feed diminishing returns, and we’re in business.

Or, increase our damage to at least match that of ranged thieves/warriors.

Hanging everything on a crappy NPC ally, and shorting us on damage because of it, sucks. Big time. Having the “master of ranged combat” play second fiddle to two other classes at range REALLY sucks. Having combat skewed so that being pelted with arrows is an annoyance, instead of a threat? That’s just sad.

1. Good ranger is able to get distance even with gap maker on the cd (rly I can
2. “ranged thief” has 600/900 range? mean our longbow basically have 1200 – and traited even more – i can hit this “ranged thief” at far more range – and keep it (range)
ranged warrior has a good burst but between those he has not so good dmg – You see warrior with rifle bursting? take your greatsword and activate “counter atack” or axe off hand and use whirling defense.

Dark Saviour.9410:

Taran Redleaf.7912:

Could a Ranger play melee instead of bow? Yes. But what if you wanted to play an Archer – what profession do you pick? ArenaNet describes the “master of the bow” as the Ranger. But the Ranger’s “mastery of the bow” is not working.

This, pretty much. I like to play ranged characters. I have in every online game I played, and I hate the idea that ranged weapons are just something to use until the enemy happens to get close enough to switch to your REAL weapon or for extremely situational/quirky encounters.

I’m probably one of the ‘bad’ rangers in peoples’ eyes because I will not use a melee weapon unless a very specific circumstance comes up in which I absolutely have to (and I will be extremely annoyed in such cases). But quite frankly, if it comes down to “Melee or get out”, I’ll take the latter option. The main selling point of rangers to me was 2 (default) 1200-range weapons + Eagle-eye. If the class was never intended to be able to stay at a range and fight (and given the way the Risen behave, that does seem to be the case), then I consider that a massive failing on ANET’s part, as the lack of a class that is designed for this purpose pretty much means there’s no place for me here. I’ve tried R/LB Warrior and SB/P-P Thief, and while the mobility is a lot closer to what I wanted in the latter’s case (though still not ideal), they still seem massively kitten. :-(

Kichwas.7152:

Second hint: If you picked your pet based which one looked cool, you’re probably playing a hunter.

But they make me use a pet and you can’t transmute a cat, so… >_>

This game will need you to switch between ranged combat and melee combat. You have a weapon swap for a reason. If you refuse to use it, Anet can’t help you.

You’ll need to L2P. Since you’re hellbent on range, you might try an elementalist on staff.

But given the nature of your complaint with ranger weapon swapping, you’ll then complain that you have to swap attunements and you don’t want to do that.

Nothing Anet can do to help you there.

To be sure, ranger does need some love. But they’re not a terrible unplayable class. Far from it. Ranger is always teetering on the ends of barely legal and UP.

I do not envy the balance devs when it comes to this class.

OP I’m sorry, but it really is a learn to play issue. As a ranger you’ll need to learn both range and melee combat styles, while managing your pet, or you will be a bad ranger.

That’s not going to change. A ranger is good at everything she does; to be good she must do everything she is able to do.

Or else the ranger falls short. Do or don’t. But you can’t blame Anet for your own unwillingness to learn how to play your class.

CETheLucid.3964:

But given the nature of your complaint with ranger weapon swapping, you’ll then complain that you have to swap attunements and you don’t want to do that.

I have no problem with weapon-swapping.
Between short-bow and long-bow (and if they’d give it to us, rifle) that is.
Hell, I might even go axe-torch once in a while for the Hell of it, since the idea of throwing axes is kinda fun.

I’ve just no desire to play melee,. and I won’t have any desire to do so until mmos have combat as fluid as Zelda or Devil May Cry. If even then…
If Ranger isn’t the class for me, then by all means, I’d welcome it if they’d add one. But it’s apparent that’s not gonna’ happen. :-\

Dark Saviour.9410:

I’ve just no desire to play melee,. and I won’t have any desire to do so until mmos have combat as fluid as Zelda or Devil May Cry. If even then…
If Ranger isn’t the class for me, then by all means, I’d welcome it if they’d add one. But it’s apparent that’s not gonna’ happen. :-\

Alright, elementalist staff or scepter for you I suppose? I don’t know what to tell you.

Even an elementalist and the other caster classes will be required to move into melee range now and again, so… I guess you just don’t like this game?

Like it or not, you will need to come to terms with melee in this game or you will always be mediocre.

You can specialize in range and still rock melee, there’s no reason to have this aversion to it.

Ranger more then any other class can effortlessly go from range to melee and melee to range with unmatched skill chemistry for the occasion.

There are a dozen combos among the various weapon sets we can use. You should be able to figure it out.

CETheLucid.3964:

Dark Saviour.9410:

I’ve just no desire to play melee,. and I won’t have any desire to do so until mmos have combat as fluid as Zelda or Devil May Cry. If even then…
If Ranger isn’t the class for me, then by all means, I’d welcome it if they’d add one. But it’s apparent that’s not gonna’ happen. :-\

Alright, elementalist staff or scepter for you I suppose? I don’t know what to tell you.

Even an elementalist and the other caster classes will be required to move into melee range now and again, so… I guess you just don’t like this game?

Like it or not, you will need to come to terms with melee in this game or you will always be mediocre.

You can specialize in range and still rock melee, there’s no reason to have this aversion to it.

Ranger more then any other class can effortlessly go from range to melee and melee to range with unmatched skill chemistry for the occasion.

There are a dozen combos among the various weapon sets we can use. You should be able to figure it out.

I’m not sure what we’re discussing here anymore.

Ranger’s need to L2P, rangers need to go melee or GTFO, but why? Is there a shortage of warriors? Speed runs as somehow the highest form of play in GW2? Who pronounced damage as the only metric that matters? Now I find I’m “required” to move to melee range. Am I? I didn’t get the memo.

Or are we talking about the preconceptions of a limited circle of hardcore farmers trying to shave off the last second off a run time, by making sure everyone is clear on the “rules” and has maximal practice with the “acceptable builds”. Cause if it’s the latter I’m pretty sure I’ll somehow survive without their approval.

heh I’m afraid You didn’t understood
everybody sometimes need to go melee – even medieval archers had a swords to defend themselfes if enemy atack them – so You cannot be “only ranged” because there will be always some situations when taking some melee weapon will be matter of live or death
I have always a rule that I need one swap melee and one ranged (on all my characters) – because even if one character is specialized in melee ther can be situation when ranged atack will be needed, and if another is specialized in range combat – sometimes melee weapon will be needed.
that isn’t preconceptions of “limited circle of hardcore farmers” – if it was that was about that I wouldn’t use any of my bows by myself as a ranger
truly if we consider all my “for some cases” weapon I have in my ranger’s backpack – bows of many different stats sigils etc. are the majority (I have two shortbows, and two longbows, only two greatswords (defensive and offensive :P) two axes dagger and warhorn – so 4 bows, 2 gs’s 2 axes dagger and warhorn – which kind of weapon is most?) and I have no 1hswords (though “one acceptable build” lobby would tell me that 1hsword+dagger is “best and only acceptable” melee set for a ranger

ltkAlpha.4136:

I’m not sure what we’re discussing here anymore.

Ranger’s need to L2P, rangers need to go melee or GTFO, but why? Is there a shortage of warriors? Speed runs as somehow the highest form of play in GW2? Who pronounced damage as the only metric that matters? Now I find I’m “required” to move to melee range. Am I? I didn’t get the memo.

You’re not needed as a warrior. Though you can act as one in a pinch.

If you’re a ranger, you’re a front line back line jumping looney that can pull it off better then any other class.

If you don’t do that, you unnecessarily limit and thus kitten yourself. Memo delivered.

You can help the warrior by taking the edge off of them by going into melee yourself, and then jump back to range when they have a handle again or you’re taking too much heat.

It can mean the difference between a wipe.

I’ve saved many a run by stepping up to help the frontline when it was necessary. Kittened many an enemy player in WvW with the same principle.

Damage is far from the only metric. Smart play is rewarded.

A warrior is a soldier who thrives on the front lines; a ranger is a gorilla fighter or a dirty fighter who can take the fight to all of the faces and then retreat back and pummel them with range to better effect then any other class.

Far more durable then a thief, much more squishy then a warrior. You have to master the art of knowing when to engage and disengage.

Knowing when range is appropriate (preferred even) and when you might want to help your mates on the front line.

Ranger alone can do that. Thief maybe to a far lesser effect (all the faces VS one or a couple faces per initiative).

If you refuse to do that, you’re working with half a skill set. On a class like the ranger, you’re weakening yourself more so then any other class.

You’re supposed to do everything. That’s what ranger is balanced around. This is why longbow + pet isn’t godmode. It’ll never be godmode.
_

That said, longbow does need some love. Warrior shouldn’t be able to outclass us with our signature weapon. We don’t outclass them with swords or GS.

To be fair, Anet has been bringing up and making every other ranger weapon wonderful. Only Longbow is left really and it needs it’s due.

I’ve been happy with the other weapon fixes so far, even the underwater ones (They’re great! Don’t diss the aquaman buffs!)

So I’m confident when it does happen it’ll be a wonderful change for the better.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

heh I’m afraid You didn’t understood
everybody sometimes need to go melee – even medieval archers had a swords to defend themselfes if enemy atack them – so You cannot be “only ranged” because there will be always some situations when taking some melee weapon will be matter of live or death
I have always a rule that I need one swap melee and one ranged (on all my characters) – because even if one character is specialized in melee ther can be situation when ranged atack will be needed, and if another is specialized in range combat – sometimes melee weapon will be needed.
that isn’t preconceptions of “limited circle of hardcore farmers” – if it was that was about that I wouldn’t use any of my bows by myself as a ranger
truly if we consider all my “for some cases” weapon I have in my ranger’s backpack – bows of many different stats sigils etc. are the majority (I have two shortbows, and two longbows, only two greatswords (defensive and offensive :P) two axes dagger and warhorn – so 4 bows, 2 gs’s 2 axes dagger and warhorn – which kind of weapon is most?) and I have no 1hswords (though “one acceptable build” lobby would tell me that 1hsword+dagger is “best and only acceptable” melee set for a ranger

You -can- be “Only Ranged” my ranger for the longest time was Axe/Horn(or other axe depending on what i felt like that day) and Longbow and i did just fine, the thing is you just keep people away from you as you DPS/ Support or W/e you’re doing.

My mesmer is also ONLY ranged, scepter/torch + Staff, my Ele is only ranged as well, because he uses a staff, my engi is only ranged because he’s a turret engi with pistol+shield, only thing that i have that isn’t ONLY ranged is my thief, and that’s because i can’t stand pistol/pistol gameplay for some reason so i go with pistol/dagger + Dagger/pistol.

Just because some people like walking around with an entire armory in their backpack so they can fit any little niche their build allows on a moments notice doesn’t mean it’s required to do, i certainly don’t on anything i have other than my ranger (I actually enjoy all their weapons play style).

As long as you’re not in a speed run you can do just about what ever you want, the problem with rangers in dungeons stands with the idiots that don’t use their pets, and STILL want to be “topping the charts”, they’re just stupid and useless and should really just play a warrior.

Durzlla.6295:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

heh I’m afraid You didn’t understood
everybody sometimes need to go melee – even medieval archers had a swords to defend themselfes if enemy atack them – so You cannot be “only ranged” because there will be always some situations when taking some melee weapon will be matter of live or death
I have always a rule that I need one swap melee and one ranged (on all my characters) – because even if one character is specialized in melee ther can be situation when ranged atack will be needed, and if another is specialized in range combat – sometimes melee weapon will be needed.
that isn’t preconceptions of “limited circle of hardcore farmers” – if it was that was about that I wouldn’t use any of my bows by myself as a ranger
truly if we consider all my “for some cases” weapon I have in my ranger’s backpack – bows of many different stats sigils etc. are the majority (I have two shortbows, and two longbows, only two greatswords (defensive and offensive :P) two axes dagger and warhorn – so 4 bows, 2 gs’s 2 axes dagger and warhorn – which kind of weapon is most?) and I have no 1hswords (though “one acceptable build” lobby would tell me that 1hsword+dagger is “best and only acceptable” melee set for a ranger

You -can- be “Only Ranged” my ranger for the longest time was Axe/Horn(or other axe depending on what i felt like that day) and Longbow and i did just fine, the thing is you just keep people away from you as you DPS/ Support or W/e you’re doing.

My mesmer is also ONLY ranged, scepter/torch + Staff, my Ele is only ranged as well, because he uses a staff, my engi is only ranged because he’s a turret engi with pistol+shield, only thing that i have that isn’t ONLY ranged is my thief, and that’s because i can’t stand pistol/pistol gameplay for some reason so i go with pistol/dagger + Dagger/pistol.

Just because some people like walking around with an entire armory in their backpack so they can fit any little niche their build allows on a moments notice doesn’t mean it’s required to do, i certainly don’t on anything i have other than my ranger (I actually enjoy all their weapons play style).

As long as you’re not in a speed run you can do just about what ever you want, the problem with rangers in dungeons stands with the idiots that don’t use their pets, and STILL want to be “topping the charts”, they’re just stupid and useless and should really just play a warrior.

ofc You -can- but that doesn’t mean that will be good choice (mesmer is ranged even with gs so… :P)

Actually, a shortbow and longbow combination can work really well against any class that does not have stealth . The problem is with thieves and mesmers because the only counter to stealth is taking guesses and swinging and throwing AOE . You cant really do that with bows

“can” is a good word here

Ranged weapons when you’re far.

Melee when you’re up close.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

“can” is a good word here

Yes it -can- if I go LB + SB, put 30 points in BM 30 in NM, and 10 in WS survival and go “Lawlz I amz spiritz + bearz!” And wear berserker armor for my dmgz I’m going to be a horrible addition to the group, whereas if I actually make an intelligent bow build it can work, I mean c’mon, most the bow traits boost both bows, they synergies well together too.

Durzlla.6295:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

“can” is a good word here

Yes it -can- if I go LB + SB, put 30 points in BM 30 in NM, and 10 in WS survival and go “Lawlz I amz spiritz + bearz!” And wear berserker armor for my dmgz I’m going to be a horrible addition to the group, whereas if I actually make an intelligent bow build it can work, I mean c’mon, most the bow traits boost both bows, they synergies well together too.

I didn’t negate the fact that this combo -can- be good and viable – I only accented word “can”
I meant that if You have well built build and you are good player and know how to ply it it can be good – but possibility that You won’t have to counter enemy that will be very hard to kill with that is rather very low (for example – first mesmer with that funny skill that reflect all missiles to its owner will eat you up because on this setup You have -only- projectile atacks – i had once such situation that i fired volley from shortbow and mess casted that skill and all 5 arrow headed back to me…. that was poisonous).
about bow traits…
piercing arrows are rivalising with eagle eye….
andd only bow related trait eccept that stated upthere is honed bohw with makes cd’s on both bows better.
ok so maybe we don’t want that 1500 range on longbow and piercing arrows are better for our build – To run up bow boosting traits You need to spend at least 40 trait points – 20 in marksmanship and 20 in skirmishing and that left You 30 points for more defensive trait lines – ok why not, and here we have difficult decision – which. we can invest all in ws, all in beastmaster (don’t think so we are considering 30 points in nature magic?) so we have a choice to make our thougness bigger, our boost our pet and healing power – 30 trait points may be little amout to make good survivability based on traits…
and if we want use all potential of longbow and want both piercing arrows and eagle eye – so we need to spend 30 trait points in marksmanship (don’t forget about 20 in skirmishing) imo there are better option at grandmaster marksmanship trait but let’s be it – we want maksimize usability with bows.
so we have 20 trait points to invest.
but however we will spend that 20/30 trait points – as for me is a little “glas canony” build – and that’s one of reasons why I so strenghtly accented word “can”

Regards and good luck with Your bows-only build

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Durzlla.6295:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

“can” is a good word here

Yes it -can- if I go LB + SB, put 30 points in BM 30 in NM, and 10 in WS survival and go “Lawlz I amz spiritz + bearz!” And wear berserker armor for my dmgz I’m going to be a horrible addition to the group, whereas if I actually make an intelligent bow build it can work, I mean c’mon, most the bow traits boost both bows, they synergies well together too.

I didn’t negate the fact that this combo -can- be good and viable – I only accented word “can”
I meant that if You have well built build and you are good player and know how to ply it it can be good – but possibility that You won’t have to counter enemy that will be very hard to kill with that is rather very low (for example – first mesmer with that funny skill that reflect all missiles to its owner will eat you up because on this setup You have -only- projectile atacks – i had once such situation that i fired volley from shortbow and mess casted that skill and all 5 arrow headed back to me…. that was poisonous).
about bow traits…
piercing arrows are rivalising with eagle eye….
andd only bow related trait eccept that stated upthere is honed bohw with makes cd’s on both bows better.
ok so maybe we don’t want that 1500 range on longbow and piercing arrows are better for our build – To run up bow boosting traits You need to spend at least 40 trait points – 20 in marksmanship and 20 in skirmishing and that left You 30 points for more defensive trait lines – ok why not, and here we have difficult decision – which. we can invest all in ws, all in beastmaster (don’t think so we are considering 30 points in nature magic?) so we have a choice to make our thougness bigger, our boost our pet and healing power – 30 trait points may be little amout to make good survivability based on traits…
and if we want use all potential of longbow and want both piercing arrows and eagle eye – so we need to spend 30 trait points in marksmanship (don’t forget about 20 in skirmishing) imo there are better option at grandmaster marksmanship trait but let’s be it – we want maksimize usability with bows.
so we have 20 trait points to invest.
but however we will spend that 20/30 trait points – as for me is a little “glas canony” build – and that’s one of reasons why I so strenghtly accented word “can”

Regards and good luck with Your bows-only build

Oh I totally agree your innate defense is, lets just say kitten, for a -good- bow/bow build, but you also never need to be in melee and can have more CC and ways to get away than you know what to do with.

I normally pair my dual bow builds with 2 30 BM spiders, black widow and I think it’s jungle, the ones with the like 4s immob.