Guild Wars 2

Prysin.8542:

Also, frost trap is OP if you blast finish the field. Gives your zerg Frost Aura, which means whoever hits you get chilled, and you take 10% less damage. Heavily underestimated. Ele with frost field, and a blast train, would lead to epicly OP zergs…. too bad it has a long CD for eles.

yes, but the entire point is you dont need rangers for this. this is done with a few staff eles and hammer guards. bigger frost fields, more blast finishers. this is the problem: what we do others do better.

Kasama.8941:

No one here is content. We are simply trying to make the best with what we have, which isn’t as bad as most want to believe. We already have a lot of complain topics, but negativity never moved anyone forward.

no, it’s not as bad. but it’s bad enough to exclude us from min/maxed activities like GvG’s, which has permeated the WvW meta.

there are many cool things a ranger can pull off , but lots of the mechanics in the game and the effort-payoff , make it not worth it for the majority of the players . Couple that with bugs a lot of people are put off by the class .

Having said that , people who find themselves in the class , stick with it and improve with it , myself included . As far as fun goes, ranger beats em all

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

mistsim.2748:

Prysin.8542:

Also, frost trap is OP if you blast finish the field. Gives your zerg Frost Aura, which means whoever hits you get chilled, and you take 10% less damage. Heavily underestimated. Ele with frost field, and a blast train, would lead to epicly OP zergs…. too bad it has a long CD for eles.

yes, but the entire point is you dont need rangers for this. this is done with a few staff eles and hammer guards. bigger frost fields, more blast finishers. this is the problem: what we do others do better.

Frost trap with trap potency is unblockable and pulsing on a 24s recharge with a bonus 200% duration (twice as long). It’s also invisible to the enemy. I don’t buy this notion that others can do what ranger does except better.

Gorath.5076:

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

If you have some gold and leftover badges, try something like Hydralisk—let us know what you think (there’s a thread on that). Personally I would prefer sentinels but it’s too much gold right now so I went soldiers. Hydralisk was partly inspired by the sentinel’s front liner thread.

Chopps.5047:

Gorath.5076:

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

If you have some gold and leftover badges, try something like Hydralisk—let us know what you think (there’s a thread on that). Personally I would prefer sentinels but it’s too much gold right now so I went soldiers. Hydralisk was partly inspired by the sentinel’s front liner thread.

on it. i’ll let you know

Just a suggestion: no need to waste your gold/badages on that.
I tested almost every single build ever appears on this board (even some not appears here) before I made that post —- I am done with my ranger in WvW.
If you don’t beleive that or only play for fun, go ahead.

Gorath.5076:

Chopps.5047:

Gorath.5076:

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

If you have some gold and leftover badges, try something like Hydralisk—let us know what you think (there’s a thread on that). Personally I would prefer sentinels but it’s too much gold right now so I went soldiers. Hydralisk was partly inspired by the sentinel’s front liner thread.

on it. i’ll let you know

Castaliea.3156:

All of our weapons are just not suited for such an environment. Sword competently inhibits your movement, Axe may bounce but that’s not real cleave, Greatsword cleaves but all you do is spam #1/2, Piercing Arrows? Handy, but again, not cleaving and targeting can be a real pain.

Bouncing is better than cleaving.

If there’s 1 target, both a cleave and bounce will hit 1 time.

If there are 2 targets, a cleave will hit 2 times. A bounce will hit 3 times.

If there are 3 or more targets, both a cleave and bounce will hit 3 times.

So in the 1 or 3+ target cases, bouncing behaves identically to a cleave. But in the 2 target case, bouncing is superior to cleaving. Bouncing also doesn’t have the cleave limitation of all 3 targets having to be in front of you.

Axe may seem slow at 1 attack per sec, but only 2 of the 3 sword autoattacks cleave. Since a sword autoattack chain is 1.8 sec, that’s 0.9 sec per cleave. Not much different from axe. What kills axe is its low skill coefficient (0.5 vs 0.6 and 0.7 for sword’s two cleaving attacks).

mistsim.2748:

condis arent more spammable than cures, this is the problem right now =( no one is gonna run 10 rangers to counter the 10 frontline guards. rangers do paltry damage and have poor sustain. who’s gonna do the hard work of actually killing these guys?

Traps are basically self spamming condi’s though, there is no defense to this except avoiding the area which is a victory in itself (area denial), since conditions reapply as soon as the cleanse is used.

Stability > hard cc,
cleansing > soft cc,
nothing > pulsing cc.

Since rangers have a very short cool down on traps thats either a lot of conditions or a lot of area denial.

Solandri.9640:

Castaliea.3156:

All of our weapons are just not suited for such an environment. Sword competently inhibits your movement, Axe may bounce but that’s not real cleave, Greatsword cleaves but all you do is spam #1/2, Piercing Arrows? Handy, but again, not cleaving and targeting can be a real pain.

Bouncing is better than cleaving.

If there’s 1 target, both a cleave and bounce will hit 1 time.

If there are 2 targets, a cleave will hit 2 times. A bounce will hit 3 times.

If there are 3 or more targets, both a cleave and bounce will hit 3 times.

So in the 1 or 3+ target cases, bouncing behaves identically to a cleave. But in the 2 target case, bouncing is superior to cleaving. Bouncing also doesn’t have the cleave limitation of all 3 targets having to be in front of you.

Axe may seem slow at 1 attack per sec, but only 2 of the 3 sword autoattacks cleave. Since a sword autoattack chain is 1.8 sec, that’s 0.9 sec per cleave. Not much different from axe. What kills axe is its low skill coefficient (0.5 vs 0.6 and 0.7 for sword’s two cleaving attacks).

I think…..
you missed the point.
If I was in a better mood today I would explain the difference between cleave and bounce and why it matters but I’m not and I don’t think I could do it in a kind tone so…Sorry.

CRrabbit.1284:

Just a suggestion: no need to waste your gold/badages on that.
I tested almost every single build ever appears on this board (even some not appears here) before I made that post —- I am done with my ranger in WvW.
If you don’t beleive that or only play for fun, go ahead.

Gorath.5076:

Chopps.5047:

Gorath.5076:

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

If you have some gold and leftover badges, try something like Hydralisk—let us know what you think (there’s a thread on that). Personally I would prefer sentinels but it’s too much gold right now so I went soldiers. Hydralisk was partly inspired by the sentinel’s front liner thread.

on it. i’ll let you know

How many full sets of exotics do you have for ranger? I have 15 full sets of exotics and can actually do really well in every single one except probably givers. (Givers armor lol)

Kilger.5490:

mistsim.2748:

condis arent more spammable than cures, this is the problem right now =( no one is gonna run 10 rangers to counter the 10 frontline guards. rangers do paltry damage and have poor sustain. who’s gonna do the hard work of actually killing these guys?

Traps are basically self spamming condi’s though, there is no defense to this except avoiding the area which is a victory in itself (area denial), since conditions reapply as soon as the cleanse is used.

Stability > hard cc,
cleansing > soft cc,
nothing > pulsing cc.

Since rangers have a very short cool down on traps thats either a lot of conditions or a lot of area denial.

Kilger, thanks for using the phrase “area denial”. That’s precisely why traps are so good. I should have had you write the intro!

I don’t have that much whole sets.
I have 0 piece of giver/cele/travelers (has explores when I use to PVE)
Some pieces of settler/shaman combined with others. And the rest of all exotic sets. I think that’s enough to test in WvW.

Chopps.5047:

CRrabbit.1284:

Just a suggestion: no need to waste your gold/badages on that.
I tested almost every single build ever appears on this board (even some not appears here) before I made that post —- I am done with my ranger in WvW.
If you don’t beleive that or only play for fun, go ahead.

Gorath.5076:

Chopps.5047:

Gorath.5076:

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

If you have some gold and leftover badges, try something like Hydralisk—let us know what you think (there’s a thread on that). Personally I would prefer sentinels but it’s too much gold right now so I went soldiers. Hydralisk was partly inspired by the sentinel’s front liner thread.

on it. i’ll let you know

How many full sets of exotics do you have for ranger? I have 15 full sets of exotics and can actually do really well in every single one except probably givers. (Givers armor lol)

Chopps.5047:

Kilger, thanks for using the phrase “area denial”. That’s precisely why traps are so good. I should have had you write the intro!

Thanks lol, i know the value of area denial well from my necro but rangers can do it more aggressively with the short cooldowns imo…

CRrabbit.1284:

Just a suggestion: no need to waste your gold/badages on that.
I tested almost every single build ever appears on this board (even some not appears here) before I made that post —- I am done with my ranger in WvW.
If you don’t beleive that or only play for fun, go ahead.

Gorath.5076:

Chopps.5047:

Gorath.5076:

just needed to share this:

Great post and great information from Chopps as well as everyone else!!!
Made me pick up my beloved Ranger again, whom I dropped in favour of a Mesmer for GvG play.
Keep it up!!!

EDIT: makes me even more enthusiastic together with this post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Sentinel-Frontliner-Next-Level-WvW-Ranger

If you have some gold and leftover badges, try something like Hydralisk—let us know what you think (there’s a thread on that). Personally I would prefer sentinels but it’s too much gold right now so I went soldiers. Hydralisk was partly inspired by the sentinel’s front liner thread.

on it. i’ll let you know

did anyone tell you that sometimes you have something awfully depressing about you, mate?

Anyhow, I was at the same point about a month ago and as I said, dropped my Ranger. Yet, what is suggested in this thread is exactly what I was trying to do for a long time in WvW, but with little success. Either I died do quickly, didn’t do enough Damage or what ever help I provided, some other class could do better, sometimes even without specifically traiting into it.
Yet, what you guys are debating now is something different, in my opinion. Some time ago I posted a Chill-CC build on this forum which hasn’t really been given much recognition because it wasn’t very good, I suppose Yet, identifying Control and ‘softening’ or ‘erosion’ as the main task of the Ranger goes somewhere along those lines and has hence given me new hope for what I believe to be the coolest class in GW2.
Enough off topic now, though.

@Chopps: had a look into your Hydralisk build, without buying most of the gear though. I just tried with what I had (Knights/Soldier/Apo) and it seems to work quite well. Though it does not negate the major concern I always had when it came to traps:
In a larger scale WvW fight I get about 15 Frames/second and I find it impossible to plant traps effectively.
Their range is so short that you cant just drop and time them from a save distance but have to plant them while you are in the face of your enemy. I’ll give you that the quickness on pet-swap makes this considerably easier.
Still its three 3/4 second cast time utilities which you have to get off while doing nothing else in the face of the enemy zerg.

Castaliea.3156:

Solandri.9640:

Castaliea.3156:

All of our weapons are just not suited for such an environment. Sword competently inhibits your movement, Axe may bounce but that’s not real cleave, Greatsword cleaves but all you do is spam #1/2, Piercing Arrows? Handy, but again, not cleaving and targeting can be a real pain.

Bouncing is better than cleaving.

If there’s 1 target, both a cleave and bounce will hit 1 time.

If there are 2 targets, a cleave will hit 2 times. A bounce will hit 3 times.

If there are 3 or more targets, both a cleave and bounce will hit 3 times.

So in the 1 or 3+ target cases, bouncing behaves identically to a cleave. But in the 2 target case, bouncing is superior to cleaving. Bouncing also doesn’t have the cleave limitation of all 3 targets having to be in front of you.

Axe may seem slow at 1 attack per sec, but only 2 of the 3 sword autoattacks cleave. Since a sword autoattack chain is 1.8 sec, that’s 0.9 sec per cleave. Not much different from axe. What kills axe is its low skill coefficient (0.5 vs 0.6 and 0.7 for sword’s two cleaving attacks).

I think…..
you missed the point.
If I was in a better mood today I would explain the difference between cleave and bounce and why it matters but I’m not and I don’t think I could do it in a kind tone so…Sorry.

Please explain. If there’s a game mechanic I’m unaware of, I’d appreciate being told what it is. I love learning about new stuff.

The dreaded inability to place traps in skill lag. Yes, that’s actually—and quite sadly—the biggest drawback. At least everyone has that problem.

I think that’s because there’s a limit to the amount of aoe on the ground and you end up competing with other players to add your own aoe to the mess. I’m just guessing.

And, by the way, regarding your chill build, Gorath, just because it didn’t get recognition doesn’t mean it wasn’t good.

CRrabbit.1284:

Kasama.8941:

CRrabbit.1284:

lol, no stun breaker. you can at most cast 1 skill in front of zerg then be stun locked to death.

mistsim.2748:

if youre casting from 600 range, by the time youre done, the melee train is upon you. so youre still at melee range.

How the hell do you guys play? Stand still and take all the incoming damage to your face? The Ranger has more then enough evasion to move out of the way. You’re talking like the only reasonable scenario is a hundred foes, with +100% movement speed, vs. one imbecile Ranger. Let’s get back to reality shall we..

If you want more stun removal, then changing Muddy Terrain to Signet of Renewal, or Lightning Reflexes, wouldn’t make the build that much worse. And the build also has Shared Anguish.

You have neither LB stealth nor GS3 gap closer. How can you reach opponents into melee range w/o being noticed?
Your shared anguish is the reason why I said you can cast 1 skill before you die.
Yes you can use sword2 to get closer but then you just used the only last hope of escaping after cast that 1 skill when you are lucky enough to be not seen when you try to approach.

I literally threw that build together in 2 minutes, so I didn’t think of everything. But throwing traps down without being “noticed” isn’t very hard in the chaos of everything that goes on in a fight. Large groups of players tend to stick together closely, and therefor have a hard time doing sharp turns, meaning something as simple as dodge rolling and running to the side, means you can avoid most of a group completely. Large groups of players are also very predicable when moving, so it’s easy to see where to place you traps, as long as you see them coming of curse.

So you are just gambling during the fight. If there is 1-2 OP see you and cast 1-2 hard CC, you pretty much become a badge. I agree that you may succeed sometime when you are lucky but that’s not the way a ranger should be in my opinion. If I do gambling of not being seen, I would rather go for zerk LB build then I can at least guarantee some real damage.

I literally threw that build together in 2 minutes, so I didn’t think of everything. But throwing traps down without being “noticed” isn’t very hard in the chaos of everything that goes on in a fight. Large groups of players tend to stick together closely, and therefor have a hard time doing sharp turns, meaning something as simple as dodge rolling and running to the side, means you can avoid most of a group completely. Large groups of players are also very predicable when moving, so it’s easy to see where to place you traps, as long as you see them coming of curse.

Chopps.5047:

I don’t buy this notion that others can do what ranger does except better.

Gorath.5076:

did anyone tell you that sometimes you have something awfully depressing about you, mate?

i would just like to emphasize to the whole community that it’s good to stay positive about the profession like Chopps always is, but it’s also crucial to test everything out objectively and actually “complain” and be negative and doubtful. pushing the prof to the max is important to keep the morale up, but doing so only makes u realize our shortcomings.

imo being too positive (to the point of seeming delusional) is just as bad as being overly negative about the ranger. i push the heck out of my ranger, i put out guides, i stress test my builds against very good players and guilds. i present my research, but then i complain as well, which incites discussion. it’s necessary balance. i actually appreciate CRabbits negativity.

Great discussion, even a mention of ranger in the damage role of the trinity as opposed to control. One day, we’ll shake the misconceptions and get a feel for what we can do and what our strengths really are. Keep in mind that ranger is by far the least theorycrafted class by the general community so it falls on our shoulders to learn how and why to use rangers. I’m just glad to be here. it’s exciting!

Nice info. I completely agree with you Chopps. Kaineng’s Current match-up right now has us outnumbered everyday on our own BL and I must say, I did the exact same thing you did in your hills. Granted I died after a whopping 1.5 -2 minutes of 15v1 but that was more than enough time to allow my own zerg to get in and wipe the 15 or so SoS that was capping our hills.

My point is that traps are very effective to an unsuspecting zerg and 2-3 seconds of anyone not being cleansed is incredibly effective. Natural reaction to your life bar going down is to run for safety or use a heal and most people in a zerg run out to the edges and prematurely cast their heals thus making them less efficient without their heals and falling out of position.

Earlier on you guys kept saying 5 rangers would not be able to stop 5 perma stability frontline fighters, while that may be true to a degree, you’re forgetting that your own zerg also has “perma-stability” as well and the Rangers role in this is to not take out these frontline fighters, but to merely weaken or force the frontline fighters to use up their skills sooner than anticipated because they are not “expecting” rangers to be able to get in, drop traps, AoE, and still be able to get out (no other profession has this capability BTW) and we all know what happens when our skills are on CD while our enemy can still cast or attack. I only say this because a mesmer or necro will not be able to get out in front of the zerg, drop their AoE and run back, and even if they could, it certainly would not be easier or better than a ranger who will survive, and come back in 20 seconds to do it once more and pop their healing spring for the fontline fighters just to add icing on the cake

and yes, 1 ranger in a zerg may not make a big difference but try adding 4-5 and you might be surprised. When traited, food buffed, and sigil, my traps can lay down some hurt at 1800 condition damage even for 2-3 seconds so being unblockable is always a good thing.

Chopps.5047:

I think that’s because there’s a limit to the amount of aoe on the ground and you end up competing with other players to add your own aoe to the mess. I’m just guessing.

This is part of the problem, when I was experimenting with Sword/dagger and Axe/Torch condition build or swap one for GS, in Zerg work the AoE destroyed me before I could take two steps, regardless of which armor set I was using or what my HP was ( 24k being the highest I think I tried). Which is why I questioned jumping into the front of a zerg and planting traps. I never lived long enough to imagine being able to actually place a trap, much less 3 or 4.

Granted, I never tried it with the complete cc block that we have in Rampage as One I think? One of our Traits has this ability on a long CD. Which is why I abandon Sword/Dagger for a LB or SB when I’m Zerg working.

Ya, it works, nargofwov, you just need toughness (approaching 3000 armor rating is ideal but difficult to achieve so you find a balance) and—most importantly, like you said, stability. I like vitality/healing power for passive condition defense. If you try to lead your zerg, make sure you’re coordinated and they’re ready to attack after the pre-emptive strikes. Also, don’t stray too far into their backline. You only get to clear one, maybe two immobilizes so don’t let them use the immob. That’s, I think, our biggest weakness with builds that do not utilize wilderness survival (susceptibility to immobilize).