Guild Wars 2

I’m gonna go on a limb and say its because the CDI was largely underwhelming and a majority of the viewers were, frankly, disappointed in anet’s lack of everything related to their game… so, we decided to take out our frustrations on the forums…

Also, it might be because it was 2 in the morning and our brains might not have been working correctly. =)

Lake.9842:

Fluffball.8307:

I’ll find links to both videos if you’re interested because they are ideal examples or sword use, just let me know and I’d love to put in the 10 minutes searching for them.

That would be great, thank you.
And, do you recommend also turning of the autoattack/autotarget for PVE?

Some pretty awesome sword use particularly for about the last minute where he’s running for his life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AkX6q_kV-s

Frou Frou’s video where she got reported for cheating for being too good at ranger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyxQN_UCYM0

And yes I 100% agree with turning both of those options off for PvE.

In my humble opinion it seems that the crowds with differing opinions on ranger sword are playing different game modes. It seems like the people who love sword the way it is are coming from a spvp or wvw perspective while maybe the people who dont like sword as much play more pve.

I dont play my ranger much and when i do its only in dungeons but the reason i dont play it much is because i dont like the sword auto chain. Circle strafing around a boss on ranger is more difficult than with any other melee class. Also sometimes i prefer to be at max melee range instead of being glued to my target and pushing him around the room. If sword was ever changed to function similarly to other classes auto attack then i would love my ranger and play him a lot more.

Also +1 to getting a main hand dagger for ranger, pls

I only get miffed at it when trying to cleave. so I bring a GS with me if I intend to, but yes it still can be a little annoying – otherwise I think it’s a quirky weapon that is a lot of fun to use.

I think a lot of the dislike for the weapon stems from it both needing creativity and lots of familiarity to make you feel like it isn’t causing your fails/deaths. Definitely one of the hardest weapons in the game to master, despite it being an autoattack dps weapon.

Oh! I almost forgot to add, I would love a dagger mainhand. Or, like with mesmer, if the ranger spear worked on land.

solrik.6028:

Alright, so we get zero escape, autoattack spam and jumping around for nothing.

Just don’t target an enemy and you’ll have 2 leaps forward, 3 if you hit an enemy while leaping. You could also use Serpent’s Strike first to evade backwards, turn your character around and then the two leaps.

Fluffball.8307:

Lake.9842:

Fluffball.8307:

I’ll find links to both videos if you’re interested because they are ideal examples or sword use, just let me know and I’d love to put in the 10 minutes searching for them.

That would be great, thank you.
And, do you recommend also turning of the autoattack/autotarget for PVE?

Some pretty awesome sword use particularly for about the last minute where he’s running for his life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AkX6q_kV-s

Frou Frou’s video where she got reported for cheating for being too good at ranger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyxQN_UCYM0

And yes I 100% agree with turning both of those options off for PvE.

As seen, the sword is a kiting weapon. You were kiting more then attacking the enemy. Yet the sword is the strongest damage weapon we have.
I honestly would like to get a second MH sword, so you could still kite like a madman and I could finally use this weapon for PvE encounters.

Frou Frou’s video where she got reported for cheating for being too good at ranger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyxQN_UCYM0

^ LR , canceled through use of Dagger 4 breaks the backwards leap, and so does weapon swapping too , chained evades a wonderful thing to have.

Awesome, this has been bothering me lately (really, since game release) and I was hoping to find a topic.

I understand it’s useful for (skillful) evades and the AA makes you “stick” to the target, but it’s still frustrating and unwieldy to me since I don’t PvP. I don’t want to stick to mobs! I need to be able to move out of their way.

Either break the skill 1 animations rooting the player or make other actions (movement/skills) interrupt them. Skill 2 and 3 are weak in PvE, but rather than rewrite the whole thing I’d prefer:

*Dual-wield 1h swords (main-hand skills change, like with dual daggers on thief)
and/or
*Dagger main-hand

Sword is an amazing weapon, why would you want something with a low skill cap? High skill cap means flexibility more often than not. In this case, it definitely is.

I can survive forever with martial mastery and dagger.

The only thing I don’t like about it is leaping away over a downed, stealthed player.

Dolt.2731:

Sword is an amazing weapon, why would you want something with a low skill cap? High skill cap means flexibility more often than not. In this case, it definitely is.

I can survive forever with martial mastery and dagger.

The only thing I don’t like about it is leaping away over a downed, stealthed player.

Because just surviving wont win any fights.

Dolt.2731:

High skill cap means flexibility more often than not.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. For something to have a high skill cap it typically needs precise execution to work perfectly. One could attribute this to the 1h sword since you need to know how to work around the rooting but that doesn’t mean flexibility.

You can’t just yolo# a guy down with QZ’d autos because you won’t be able to maneuver and if you don’t make precise use of 2,3, and d4 you probably won’t win because it has no burst and you won’t out dps a person who does.

Substance E.4852:

That makes absolutely no sense at all. For something to have a high skill cap it typically needs precise execution to work perfectly. One could attribute this to the 1h sword since you need to know how to work around the rooting but that doesn’t mean flexibility.

1h sword works adequately with just autoattack turned off and a decent sense of rhythm. You can take it that extra mile and get extra “dodges” out of the autoattack. (even in PvE against 1-hit kill bosses.) Also judging by the difficulty people say they have using Hornet’s Sting, the timing of that could be added to the skill cap. Likewise with the weapon swapping to achieve longer leaps.

I think the unconventional movement is appropriately called a high skill cap. You don’t even necessarily know it’s there and can still be average with the sword.

Fluffball.8307:

Substance E.4852:

That makes absolutely no sense at all. For something to have a high skill cap it typically needs precise execution to work perfectly. One could attribute this to the 1h sword since you need to know how to work around the rooting but that doesn’t mean flexibility.

1h sword works adequately with just autoattack turned off and a decent sense of rhythm. You can take it that extra mile and get extra “dodges” out of the autoattack. (even in PvE against 1-hit kill bosses.) Also judging by the difficulty people say they have using Hornet’s Sting, the timing of that could be added to the skill cap. Likewise with the weapon swapping to achieve longer leaps.

I think the unconventional movement is appropriately called a high skill cap. You don’t even necessarily know it’s there and can still be average with the sword.

I would even go that far and say that the sword has no AA. That’s probably the reason why sword #1 does so much damage, because it isn’t intended to be used as normal autoattack.
That however does not change my opinion that this weapon is not appropriate for PvE, as are many weapons of the ranger. That is as obvious as huge of a flaw. To please all people, I would say that the ranger should be able to wield two different kits of the same weapontype, one optimised for PvE and one for PvP/WvW.

@ANet: You’ve said that you don’t want to have skills or traits that are only useful in one gamemode. So why the heck are you designing weapons that are only good in one gamemode? Look at torch, dagger, MH axe, sword, shortbow and even longbow in competitive (endgame) PvE content. All those weapons are pretty flawed for the meta you’ve established and don’t want to change. That, plus the messed traits and the brainless pet are the reasons why the ranger suffers so much.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

That however does not change my opinion that this weapon is not appropriate for PvE, as are many weapons of the ranger.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but it’s an interesting opinion. I think warriors can get away with the relatively pure PvE weapon of a greatsword because they have so many weapons.

I think all ranger weapons are biased towards competitive play, and double as PvE weapons. But presumably most of the game is built with that in mind (competitive, also works against idiot AI.)

/streamofconciousness

Fluffball.8307:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

That however does not change my opinion that this weapon is not appropriate for PvE, as are many weapons of the ranger.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, but it’s an interesting opinion. I think warriors can get away with the relatively pure PvE weapon of a greatsword because they have so many weapons.

I think all ranger weapons are biased towards competitive play, and double as PvE weapons. But presumably most of the game is built with that in mind (competitive, also works against idiot AI.)

/streamofconciousness

Well, all the weapons the warrior has have great use in PvE (exept mace). He is still not hindered to succeed in PvP, although is playstyle differs from ours. Our weapons are tailored to PvP and it looks more like a coincidence that they’re somewhat effective in PvE.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Well, all the weapons the warrior has have great use in PvE (exept mace).

I would label rifle, longbow, hammer, sword, and shield as basically PvP only. All of those except possibly rifle are very meta in PvP.

Axe, mace and greatsword have always been the only acceptable PvE weapons and now it’s down to only greatsword.

It’s the variety of weapons warriors have that give them these choices.

Fluffball.8307:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Well, all the weapons the warrior has have great use in PvE (exept mace).

I would label rifle, longbow, hammer, sword, and shield as basically PvP only. All of those except possibly rifle are very meta in PvP.

Axe, mace and greatsword have always been the only acceptable PvE weapons and now it’s down to only greatsword.

It’s the variety of weapons warriors have that give them these choices.

Eh… you can always find some really obscure uses for warrior weapons if you try hard enough, even mace. Wouldn’t label some of them as general-use though.

Axe is close enough to GS that’s it’s still viable. And sword has uses for both MH and OH.

Well mace was the meta PvE offhand for ages. So that’s not obscure.

Edit: Oh maybe you were responding to my overdramatization that only GS is a PvE weapon. Sure a lot of them have benefits, kind of like the ranger axe.

The auto attack is incredibly annoying if you value skilled play. The sticky effect simply won’t let you disengage from your enemy when needed and it becomes a death trap. Perhaps they made it so that auto attacks would be easy for new players and you didn’t need to position yourself. Who knows. All I know that it is a burden to use, although the damage is good. It feels much like the auto attacks of the ever-clunky Earth Shield of the elementalist. “Once you AA, you won’t get away”.

Hornet Strike should be instant or 1/4 cast time. You don’t need an elaborate animation for an evade. The evade itself will let people know that a leap is potentially coming their way.

I seriously doubt Anet will improve the mechanics of it, however.

Malcastus.6240:

The auto attack is incredibly annoying if you value skilled play. I seriously doubt Anet will improve the mechanics of it, however.

Here we are discussing how the sword has a high skill cap and how many players aren’t even aware of the high skill cap because they don’t know how to get extra dodges or longer leaps out of swords.

And you come barging in declaring it’s low skill.

This…. I don’t even know.

Fluffball.8307:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Well, all the weapons the warrior has have great use in PvE (exept mace).

I would label rifle, longbow, hammer, sword, and shield as basically PvP only. All of those except possibly rifle are very meta in PvP.

Axe, mace and greatsword have always been the only acceptable PvE weapons and now it’s down to only greatsword.

It’s the variety of weapons warriors have that give them these choices.

Rifle is the only ranged power weapon the warrior has. So I wouldn’t say that it’s useless in PvE, there just not many encounters you’ve to fight from distance. Longbow, despite being a condition weapon, brings massive AoE and utility, so I wouldn’t say either that it’s useless in PvE. The sword is actually very good as offhand weapon in PvE and has decent use as mainhand weapon. The shield can also only be used in a few situations, both PvE and PvP. Axe, mace, OH sword and greatsword are the favored weapons of PvE right now.
The ranger torch on the other hand is almost never used, as is the dagger, which is only used to be able to evade properly, even with the sword AA. The ranger MH axe is an “AoE” weapons, as the devs had said. But it completely useless, since the damage is abysmal low in a power setup and you will hardly find bosses you can’t cleave, sothat you can use your “AoE” axe effectively. Shortbow is also too weak for a power setup but sadly still the best choice if you want to stay at range. The ranger longbow wouldn’t be too bad for a ranged power weapon, if you wouldn’t be forced to stay at 1000+ units away to get the maximum damage. Furthermore is this weapon, preferred by most of the players, still not the optimal weapon for the usual high PvE content.

Malcastus.6240:

The auto attack is incredibly annoying if you value skilled play. The sticky effect simply won’t let you disengage from your enemy when needed and it becomes a death trap. Perhaps they made it so that auto attacks would be easy for new players and you didn’t need to position yourself. Who knows. All I know that it is a burden to use, although the damage is good. It feels much like the auto attacks of the ever-clunky Earth Shield of the elementalist. “Once you AA, you won’t get away”.

Hornet Strike should be instant or 1/4 cast time. You don’t need an elaborate animation for an evade. The evade itself will let people know that a leap is potentially coming their way.

I seriously doubt Anet will improve the mechanics of it, however.

They created the sword as a weapon with superior mobility. Each skill does move you somehow. Usability and easy controlability weren’t their first goals. That’s the reason why this weapon suffers in PvE. You do not move. Therefore the weapon can screw you over easily.

I think the simplest fix they could do for Ranger Sword #1 chain (from a PvE perspective) is to move the useless evade from #2’s Hornet Sting (since the skill firing time seems to vary fairly significantly as it will not interrupt the #1 chain) to Pounce (the leap part of Sword #1). Combined with a fix that makes Dodge override any other action (which is how the game should function), I think we’d see Sword’s functionality increase in PvE.

The big problem is that Sword is currently both the highest DPS option (making it the required weapon for PvE) and the best PvP/WvW weapon. As these content types conflict in what they find useful and how they play the game, forcing all of them to use the same weapon will obviously create heated arguments on the forums about how to “fix” the weapon. ArenaNet really botched the Ranger skill implementation in that regard.

You can’t put an evade on the sword autoattack or the greatsword suffers. Even if you balanced out the numbers, it would make them basically the same weapon.

On that note, if you’re fighting a group of more than about 7 people, I think the greatsword is always the better choice. Unless you’re zerg-surfing with a longbow, then sword is probably better.

Fluffball.8307:

You can’t put an evade on the sword autoattack or the greatsword suffers. Even if you balanced out the numbers, it would make them basically the same weapon.

On that note, if you’re fighting a group of more than about 7 people, I think the greatsword is always the better choice. Unless you’re zerg-surfing with a longbow, then sword is probably better.

Like I said, they are making us Rangers fight with each other because they couldn’t properly design roles for each weapon leaving us with one weapon that is best for everything (while not being great for anything either). PvEers want the weapon to lose it’s utility because that makes it annoying to use in PvE while PvP/WvWers obviously want to retain the utility because that is what makes it our best PvP/WvW weapon.

As I mentioned in the CDI, we need clear roles for each weapon.

Right now they do have clear roles. Sword is better for single targets and has a cripple (and pet might), greatsword is better for multiple targets and has the evade.

I don’t think they clash with each other at all, but if you put an evade on the sword, the GS loses half of its identity.

Fluffball.8307:

Right now they do have clear roles. Sword is better for single targets and has a cripple (and pet might), greatsword is better for multiple targets and has the evade.

I don’t think they clash with each other at all, but if you put an evade on the sword, the GS loses half of its identity.

For PvE, you use sword because you are fighting single targets (bosses) or small groups of 1-3 mobs and it is the best DPS.

For PvP, you use sword because it brings the utility needed to compete.

For WvW, you use sword for the utility while roaming and greatsword for fighting a zerg.

So no, we don’t have clear roles for our weapons. We use the same weapon for all content because the rest of them suck at everything else.

Every class gets pigeon holed into a “best weapon” for specific content. We get pigeon holed into a “best weapon” for all content which causes these threads to show up because PvE players want one thing out of our only weapon, PvP players want something else, and WvW players have a different opinion.

I’d prefer that the greatsword loses it’s evade and gets a hefty DPS boost to become our primary PvE DPS power weapon (even if that means reducing cleaves). That way the sword can get the evade tacked into the chain further cementing it as the go to PvP weapon (and cutting down on the nonsensical requirement that auto attack be turned off in order to be functional).

Basically, every class is given a toolbox with hammers, screwdrivers, drills, rulers, and saws so that they can pick the best tool for each type of content. Rangers are given a metric socket set even though everything uses only 5/16ths.

It still is a clear distinction. For damage in all 3 formats it’s: More than 1 target being hit? Use greatsword. 1 target being hit? Use sword. I think that’s a very good idea for distinguishing between two otherwise almost identical weapons.

Second part is, evade vs sticking to target is the second half, and again, good idea. You can 1v1 someone with a greatsword just fine. You’ll do less damage but you’ll have more defense (on the autoattack, both weapons have other forms of defense built in obviously.)

Fluffball.8307:

It still is a clear distinction. For damage in all 3 formats it’s: More than 1 target being hit? Use greatsword. 1 target being hit? Use sword. I think that’s a very good idea for distinguishing between two otherwise almost identical weapons.

Second part is, evade vs sticking to target is the second half, and again, good idea. You can 1v1 someone with a greatsword just fine. You’ll do less damage but you’ll have more defense (on the autoattack, both weapons have other forms of defense built in obviously.)

I see what you’re telling and I can see the spot the current sword has in PvP/WvW. But since it is the strongest power weapon aviable for the ranger, it also has a place in PvE and in PvE the handling is suboptimal. I would be fine with the swoird if the greatsword would get more use as power weapon instead. But until something changes, I’m not willing to back down with my suggestion.

i personally LOVE the sword for the ranger, there’s only ONE problem i have with it, and it’s a pretty big one.

The auto attack can get you killed due to dodge not overriding its animation which NEEDS to change.

I can’t remember the dev’s name but wasn’t there one dev forever ago who posted here something like Oi dudes! I gots this amazing fix for the sword but I won’t tell you any details! And then he vanished and they never touched the sword?

Fluffball.8307:

Lake.9842:

Fluffball.8307:

I’ll find links to both videos if you’re interested because they are ideal examples or sword use, just let me know and I’d love to put in the 10 minutes searching for them.

That would be great, thank you.
And, do you recommend also turning of the autoattack/autotarget for PVE?

Some pretty awesome sword use particularly for about the last minute where he’s running for his life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AkX6q_kV-s

Frou Frou’s video where she got reported for cheating for being too good at ranger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyxQN_UCYM0

And yes I 100% agree with turning both of those options off for PvE.

Totally made me “Aw man!” irl. Thanksu! :>

It’s hard for me to not compliment you Frou Frou; we have almost identical play styles. We favor the same weapons and skills and melee, only difference is I am berserker no matter what!

When I compliment you I’m complimenting ME.

The best thing about the current sword is you can pick and choose how you want it to function . you can either glue yourself to your target and slow people down or be so evasive that people get really mad.
The in combat mobility it provides allows us to kite so well and when combined with GS allows us a high land speed and escapabiity of with LB allows even more kiting while still picking away. People don’t seem to like that rangers are extremely hard to catch using this weapon.

IMO the weapon does what its currently designed to do and has a nice skill cap.

Sigmoid.7082:

The best thing about the current sword is you can pick and choose how you want it to function . you can either glue yourself to your target and slow people down or be so evasive that people get really mad.

Honestly, it’s very easy to turn that around. If you want to glue yourself to a warrior using 100b, go ahead, but the leaps on the autoattack will screw you more times than they will help you.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Sigmoid.7082:

The best thing about the current sword is you can pick and choose how you want it to function . you can either glue yourself to your target and slow people down or be so evasive that people get really mad.

Honestly, it’s very easy to turn that around. If you want to glue yourself to a warrior using 100b, go ahead, but the leaps on the autoattack will screw you more times than they will help you.

You can cancel the auto chain with one of 3 evades to get out of frontal cone aoe skills. Its not that hard.
Also…I play with auto off. Makes the sword a whole lot more skilful. Both the 1.2 and 1.3 ate leaps that’s go 300 and 430 range respectively. You can slash, slight disenguage, leap back in, disengage a bit again and leap in again. Can even use pounce to create distance.
Used well sword is a beautiful weapon. I have yet yo be screwed over by sword auto to date.

Sigmoid.7082:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Sigmoid.7082:

The best thing about the current sword is you can pick and choose how you want it to function . you can either glue yourself to your target and slow people down or be so evasive that people get really mad.

Honestly, it’s very easy to turn that around. If you want to glue yourself to a warrior using 100b, go ahead, but the leaps on the autoattack will screw you more times than they will help you.

You can cancel the auto chain with one of 3 evades to get out of frontal cone aoe skills. Its not that hard.
Also…I play with auto off. Makes the sword a whole lot more skilful. Both the 1.2 and 1.3 ate leaps that’s go 300 and 430 range respectively. You can slash, slight disenguage, leap back in, disengage a bit again and leap in again. Can even use pounce to create distance.
Used well sword is a beautiful weapon. I have yet yo be screwed over by sword auto to date.

I want to use my evades to evade when I have to, not to cancel skills that are broken.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Sigmoid.7082:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Sigmoid.7082:

The best thing about the current sword is you can pick and choose how you want it to function . you can either glue yourself to your target and slow people down or be so evasive that people get really mad.

Honestly, it’s very easy to turn that around. If you want to glue yourself to a warrior using 100b, go ahead, but the leaps on the autoattack will screw you more times than they will help you.

You can cancel the auto chain with one of 3 evades to get out of frontal cone aoe skills. Its not that hard.
Also…I play with auto off. Makes the sword a whole lot more skilful. Both the 1.2 and 1.3 ate leaps that’s go 300 and 430 range respectively. You can slash, slight disenguage, leap back in, disengage a bit again and leap in again. Can even use pounce to create distance.
Used well sword is a beautiful weapon. I have yet yo be screwed over by sword auto to date.

I want to use my evades to evade when I have to, not to cancel skills that are broken.

Your stated problem was you being stuck auto attacking something and eating damage. That is something you would want to evade no?

Sword really isn’t that hard to learn and when you do its the one of if not the best weapon we have. Again it does what its designed to do and it does it well.

Sigmoid.7082:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Sigmoid.7082:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Sigmoid.7082:

The best thing about the current sword is you can pick and choose how you want it to function . you can either glue yourself to your target and slow people down or be so evasive that people get really mad.

Honestly, it’s very easy to turn that around. If you want to glue yourself to a warrior using 100b, go ahead, but the leaps on the autoattack will screw you more times than they will help you.

You can cancel the auto chain with one of 3 evades to get out of frontal cone aoe skills. Its not that hard.
Also…I play with auto off. Makes the sword a whole lot more skilful. Both the 1.2 and 1.3 ate leaps that’s go 300 and 430 range respectively. You can slash, slight disenguage, leap back in, disengage a bit again and leap in again. Can even use pounce to create distance.
Used well sword is a beautiful weapon. I have yet yo be screwed over by sword auto to date.

I want to use my evades to evade when I have to, not to cancel skills that are broken.

Your stated problem was you being stuck auto attacking something and eating damage. That is something you would want to evade no?

Sword really isn’t that hard to learn and when you do its the one of if not the best weapon we have. Again it does what its designed to do and it does it well.

You don’t have to get stuck in the first place if the sword AA wouldn’t glue you to the enemy. And the sword AA is hard to anticipate if you stack in a corner because you simply don’t see your character.

It is good to have an Evade on AA, which rarely happens in good time ^^

RoyalPredator.9163:

It is good to have an Evade on AA, which rarely happens in good time ^^

That applies to the GS, not to the sword and we’re talking about the sword here.

I’ve read this and other threads about the sword auto-attack and still don’t understand what advantage the root/leaps gives over any other auto-attack in the game.

I understand the work-around (take off auto) which allows for breaks in the chain so if you anticipate a need for a dodge/evade you can. I honestly don’t know how in the middle of combat you can anticipate an attack you will need to dodge 2 seconds before the telegraph either. Anyway, this reduces the DPS drastically since the attacks are slowed & staggered, making the sword in practice one of the lowest DPS weapons when using this work around.

So my question is…why? What is the benefit of ‘sticking’ to a target while being rooted unable to dodge/evade attacks during the chain?

And if to strategically use the sword’s main form of DPS (auto-attack) lowers that DPS by 20%-50% due to less attacks per second, then why take the sword at all?

Am I missing something?

Wasbunny.6531:

So my question is…why? What is the benefit of ‘sticking’ to a target while being rooted unable to dodge/evade attacks during the chain?

PvP for mobility and chasing potential. Typically not advantage in PvE which is the whole point of this thread.

And if to strategically use the sword’s main form of DPS (auto-attack) lowers that DPS by 20%-50% due to less attacks per second, then why take the sword at all?…

If you’re losing that much dps, it means you’re attacking too slow with the sword. Other classes lose DPS too when they dodge, but no other class loses DPS when they need to move. You also have other options for controlling the sword other than turning off the auto attack (use #3, cast-cancel, swap-cancel) that would result in less attack speed loss. For most bosses in this game you can leave the AA on and AFK until it dies since fights last less than 30 seconds outside of fractals and maybe Lupicus.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Wasbunny.6531:

So my question is…why? What is the benefit of ‘sticking’ to a target while being rooted unable to dodge/evade attacks during the chain?

PvP for mobility and chasing potential. Typically not advantage in PvE which is the whole point of this thread.

And if to strategically use the sword’s main form of DPS (auto-attack) lowers that DPS by 20%-50% due to less attacks per second, then why take the sword at all?…

If you’re losing that much dps, it means you’re attacking too slow with the sword. Other classes lose DPS too when they dodge, but no other class loses DPS when they need to move. You also have other options for controlling the sword other than turning off the auto attack (use #3, cast-cancel, swap-cancel) that would result in less attack speed loss. For most bosses in this game you can leave the AA on and AFK until it dies since fights last less than 30 seconds outside of fractals and maybe Lupicus.

Approved.

@ Wasbunny: If you want to see how the current sword performs in PvP, you can check out the videos Fluffball has posted.

The main problem with the sword is that the autoattack offers no benefits in PvE to justify the clunky behavior. I think even the PvP’ers would be fine with the jumps removed from the autoattack if the new kit of the sword offers compensation for the lost stickiness without hindering the old playstyle.
So what I’m trying to achieve with my changes is to keep the old playstyle for the PvP’ers and to improve the autoattack for the PvE’ers.

To achieve this I would ask to questions:

How valuable do you find the evade backwards on sword #2.1? How valuable do you find the sidestep of sword #3? Would it hinder your playstyles if those skills would you take to other directions (like a leap forward instead of backwards on sowrd #2.1)?

2 and 3 are extremely important, both in PvE and PvP. I don’t want them to change, but someone did bring up the idea of having sword 2 never reset, just alternate backwards and forwards. So if you wanted to leap in to a fight first, you would leap backwards before the fight. I’d be ok with that. Although again, I don’t see any need for a change.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Wasbunny.6531:

So my question is…why? What is the benefit of ‘sticking’ to a target while being rooted unable to dodge/evade attacks during the chain?

PvP for mobility and chasing potential. Typically not advantage in PvE which is the whole point of this thread.

And if to strategically use the sword’s main form of DPS (auto-attack) lowers that DPS by 20%-50% due to less attacks per second, then why take the sword at all?…

If you’re losing that much dps, it means you’re attacking too slow with the sword. Other classes lose DPS too when they dodge, but no other class loses DPS when they need to move. You also have other options for controlling the sword other than turning off the auto attack (use #3, cast-cancel, swap-cancel) that would result in less attack speed loss. For most bosses in this game you can leave the AA on and AFK until it dies since fights last less than 30 seconds outside of fractals and maybe Lupicus.

Approved.

@ Wasbunny: If you want to see how the current sword performs in PvP, you can check out the videos Fluffball has posted.

The main problem with the sword is that the autoattack offers no benefits in PvE to justify the clunky behavior. I think even the PvP’ers would be fine with the jumps removed from the autoattack if the new kit of the sword offers compensation for the lost stickiness without hindering the old playstyle.
So what I’m trying to achieve with my changes is to keep the old playstyle for the PvP’ers and to improve the autoattack for the PvE’ers.

To achieve this I would ask to questions:

How valuable do you find the evade backwards on sword #2.1? How valuable do you find the sidestep of sword #3? Would it hinder your playstyles if those skills would you take to other directions (like a leap forward instead of backwards on sowrd #2.1)?

Ok I guess that makes a sort of sense. The sword auto-attack is set up to stick to targets that attempt to run but are still within the 430 range of Pounce (so not blinked away or shadow-stepped in any form). Of course almost nothing in PvE turns around and runs so this is just a PvP skill, as has been pointed out.

I could see that occasionally coming in handy when fighting a player that instead of using a skill that takes them beyond the 430 range to escape a fight they pop swiftness and just turn tail and run. I honestly don’t PvP much so maybe this happens more than I would assume.

I did watch those videos and in the first one I noticed the dominant auto-attacks were made by the axe and not the sword. The sword seemed mainly to be used as a utility weapon for the other skills to evade and re-position.

The auto-attack chain of the sword takes 1.8 seconds if not interrupted. I saw the sword auto-attack in the video at the most being used once every 4 seconds, which makes an average DPS loss of 50% in practice about right (twice the time, so half the Damage Per Second).

By contrast for instance a Necromancer with a main hand dagger (highest DPS weapon available) can freely use the auto-attack chain without having to anticipate a needed dodge, so their DPS can remain optimal until the moment it needs to be interrupted.

This ability to react to an attack by dodging at the precise moment it’s needed seems to me to out-way any advantage that might be gained by being able to chase down a running melee opponent, whether it be PvE or PvP.

Again, just talking about the unique ‘leap’ mechanic of the sword auto-attack. To me sword #2 & #3 seem fine although like the new Infiltrators Strike/Return (for Thief) there is a clunky cast time with #2 that seems unnecessarily restrictive.

Edit: Thinking about this some more the problem seems to just be that both Kick and Pounce are leaps, and thus can’t be interrupted by a dodge. I do like the concept of the mechanic (thematically very Rangery) but maybe if these were simply changed to a form of shadow step (interruptable by dodge) it would be the best of both worlds.

They just need to change the sword so that the auto attack only makes you leap when you aren’t in range to hit your target. I think that would make everyone happy.

Killsmith.8169:

They just need to change the sword so that the auto attack only makes you leap when you aren’t in range to hit your target. I think that would make everyone happy.

Not a bad idea. One concern would be if you’re fighting someone who is moving around but still in range of the sword, you would lose out on the leap to stay right on top of them. No matter where you run, the ranger is directly on top of the opponent, which makes it harder to juke him out to miss the next attack.

I wonder if a toggle would be possible. YES I want to leap on the autoattack, NO I don’t want to leap.

Well, I love the sword as is. I don’t pvp at all with it. Strictly pve. More so strictly dungeons with it. I keep SB or LB on the offhand. Very very rarely does the sword AA get me into trouble. Infact, almost never.

I’ve only recently started playing my ranger again for anything other than a WBT mule because I’ve started in fractals… so, time to get back to sword+wh/sb. So far, so good.

The default “Oh KITTEN!” button (actually typed that hehe) in GW2 is dodge. There simply isn’t another weapon for any profession that has this crucial mechanic disabled for 1 second out of a 1.8 second auto-attack chain.

A simple PvE test I do a lot is with the vet giants in Cursed Shore. Since you get focused by multiple grubs and AoEs coupled with the slow obvious telegraphs of the giant’s attacks timing dodges is important. Ranger with sword is simply the worst at dealing with this of any profession (I have all 8 80’s).

If I jump into melee and start the auto-attack chain, dodge is disabled for over 50% of the fight. This also applies to any evades since all cast times are put in a queue behind Kick & Pounce.

If I take auto-attack off and drop my attack speed down to increase the window in which I can dodge the DPS goes down dramatically, and the fight goes on longer. Because of this there are more dodges needed during the fight and any advantage gained by this work around is lost.

I really think that simply turning Kick & Pounce into a form of shadow-step instead of a leap would fix the issues with the auto-attack chain. Leaps disable your ability to dodge. Shadow-step/blink/teleport (even with cast times) are interruptable by dodge.

I love my Ranger and otherwise love the sword, but this really needs to get fixed.

I think you’re drastically over exaggerating the problem. You don’t need to be able to dodge constantly during every PvE fight. (You don’t need to be able to dodge at all usually, but whatever.) In the case of the vet giant, you need to dodge only the foot stomp IIRC. So you can attack normally, and for the 1 foot stomp he’ll do before he dies, you have plenty of time to dodge no matter where in your attack chain you are. So you’ve lost no time and no damage.

What Brazil in any number of vidoes use the sword against lupi, he doesn’t even turn the autoattack off. (I mean the ones where he fights it “normally” and not explodes it in 12 seconds or whatever.)