Guild Wars 2

Zord.6130:

Tried it all afternoon.
Easy mode.
And to all the people who say “learn to dodge” : you re just acting delusional.
A thief Backstabs me and is DPS ing me down? Just Lb #4. He uses a Shadowstep to come back to me? Lb #3 and reposition. He uses another Shadowstep to come near me? Stone Signet, then rapid fire. Dead thief.
Shadow Arts thieves are more thanks and that’s why I slot Sic Em on my utilities, and they drop like flies.
Meanwhile.

Easy mode… is only your opposition it seems.

Zord.6130:

Tried it all afternoon.
Easy mode.
And to all the people who say “learn to dodge” : you re just acting delusional.
A thief Backstabs me and is DPS ing me down? Just Lb #4. He uses a Shadowstep to come back to me? Lb #3 and reposition. He uses another Shadowstep to come near me? Stone Signet, then rapid fire. Dead thief.
Shadow Arts thieves are more thanks and that’s why I slot Sic Em on my utilities, and they drop like flies.
Meanwhile.

Literally every single one of your examples is something that was available before the update, except that now RF is slightly less useful against thieves.

Oh, getting rid of melee thieves is as easy as pressing 4? I didn’t realize. No wonder they’re the laughing stock of GW2!

Now that LB is suddenly sort of viable, people are realizing it actually has good skills available to be used and are horrified by that fact.

Zord.6130:

Tried it all afternoon.
Easy mode.
And to all the people who say “learn to dodge” : you re just acting delusional.
A thief Backstabs me and is DPS ing me down? Just Lb #4. He uses a Shadowstep to come back to me? Lb #3 and reposition. He uses another Shadowstep to come near me? Stone Signet, then rapid fire. Dead thief.
Shadow Arts thieves are more thanks and that’s why I slot Sic Em on my utilities, and they drop like flies.
Meanwhile.

Yep this was all in the game before, gratz on learning how to play ranger! (except sic em is definately better now but still i havent seen one build that uses it since very situational).

I think sic em might be best used on a melee or maybe some condi rangers. I’m not sure a LB ranger can dish out enough damage in the time allotment to get the best use out of it, and I assume RF still tracks through stealth. Not to mention LB users need their utilities to survive more than any other type of rangers.

The people claiming that you can get 15k+ damage every 8 seconds are idiots. The only way I can hit a player for that much(yes i’ve hit a bunker for around that a few times)is if I pop the stalker might buff, the horn 5, rampage as one, qz and the signet that makes you grow(forgot what it was called). Your telling me I’m able to do that kind of damage every 8 seconds? Thats like 7 cool downs I have to pop at once to get that kind of damage. Theres no way You can get that amount sooner than once every few minutes. Mean while Wars have 15k 100b every 5 seconds consistently. You will not be hitting for more than around 10k without popping all the CDs i mentioned. I have been playing zerk LB/GS since I got the game a few months after release. This kind of damage has always been possible just not as quickly. People are just now finding this out for some stupid reason and are QQing about something thats been in the game for a long time. The extra speed gave the LB the burst it needed to compete with other burst classes, even though its still behind them. It’s not hard fighting LB rangers in the slightest. I managed to kill a few small groups of around 2-4 rangers last night solo because they didn’t know how to fight a LB and I do. They were all trying to burst at the same time so I would just switch to my GS, use the block then wolf howl, then barrage and then burst them down quickly. It’s not hard people just need to learn how to deal with an easy class to counter instead of QQing like a bunch of idiots.

Asquared.4091:

BAN HIGH-CAPACITY ASSAULT BOWS!

Won’t someone think of the children!?!?

That’s racist…

If you think lb changes are OP then you don’t know how to do some of the following: dodge properly, use line of sight, block, stealth, reflect projectile, body block, etc.

People jumping to conclusions saying power ranger OP are jumping to conclusions. Any player skilled in their class and they will DESTROY a power ranger. Power ranger is very easy to kill. Sure, you can say signet of stone makes us stronger, but it really doesn’t. It almost makes you weaker, protect me was practically the same and there is practically no way to tell when it is up on the ranger so you can EASILY waste your burst on this. While with signet of stone, you can see it pop up and play defensively.

Sure, lb is strong atm, but it is not overpowered and people can learn to counter it. There are many other things in this game that are actually over powered and need to be addressed first before the noob QQ about lb. Namely, nightmare runes, scepter ele insta cast, engi nades, etc.

Eurantien.4632:

If you think lb changes are OP then you don’t know..

And this is coming from… didn’t you play LB in the last ToL?

Seriously, no ranger players are complaining on these forums, it’s all people who have no idea what a ranger longbow actually does.

Fluffball.8307:

Eurantien.4632:

If you think lb changes are OP then you don’t know..

And this is coming from… didn’t you play LB in the last ToL?

Seriously, no ranger players are complaining on these forums, it’s all people who have no idea what a ranger longbow actually does.

Yep, people are being way too hasty. If they think lb ranger is OP, they clearly haven’t fought something like…..http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQRAnY8fjMq0wa/KusQ0aABhaVA0+FS2u29RsEf9FbUVF-TZRAABmXGAgTAQHPEAPOCA9s/AA

Just by pure design condi ranger will always be stronger than power ranger, unless, there is something that hard counters it (which has been warrior). However, given recent changes condi ranger is again very strong and MUCH easier to play than glass. Granted, if the other team is horribad power ranger is probably better.

I’m not about to read two pages of people arguing, but I did see some arguments that I would like to refute.

“Dodge properly” – I’ve already said this, it takes two dodges to dodge a full rapid fire, and once it is off CD, we still would only have enough endurance to dodge some of the next volley.

“Stealth” – The stupid skill tracks, m-rons. Not only that, but most of the Rangers out there run Sic’ Em, a insta-win faceroll button against any stealth class.

“Line of sight” – How many times are you going to be able to LOS out in the open world where most fights take place (in WvW at least)? Most times, a Ranger is going to be able to land all shots from a LB.

“Block” – How many blocks that don’t end once hit do you think players have? Some classes don’t even have blocks.

“Reflect” – You really think that we should use reflects when we can slot something more useful like condition removal or stun breaks just for one class? If we are forced to do that, then it is a clear example of it being OP.

“Gap Close” – All you need to do is knock them back, use that one lightning dodge, turn around and use your swoop then take out your LB again. And before you say they can just gap close again, they’ll probably be dead from your pew pew. It takes CDs to be able to gap close and usually the ones that can cover 1200 – 1500 (traited) range are usually the most crucial “oh kitten” buttons that have long CDs, not everyone is a Warrior with a GS.

“Blind” – … How many classes can blind multiple shots within 3 seconds?

“We are just sitting there when we rapid fire” – I’m pretty darn sure you can move while you are rapid firing.

“We aren’t using anything else while we rapid fire” – You are using rapid fire, forcing the other player to either eat it, use their utilities, or use their dodges. Not only that, your rapid fire is on a short CD.

If you can just sit back and shoot players to death, that takes no skill. You hit one button on your LB and your target is either down, low health, or used crucial dodges or CDs to evade your stupid low CD ranged equivalent to hundred blades. It was a stupid skill before the patch and an even more stupider skill after the patch.

By no means am I saying the LB is uncounterable, it is and is pretty weak if your target can get close and stay close.. IF the target even gets the chance to get close.

Kazuto.2798:

complaining

Fluffball.8307:

Enough jibba jabba. I’m about to run out the door, but if anyone truly feels that LB is completely OP and RF is a win-button, I’ll be happy to duel you while you have LB and I have the ranger melee sets to hopefully change your mind. You can pick if I’m allowed to use offhand axe or just dagger for the 1h sword, even.

Fluffball.8307:

And I’m not a hostile dueler at all, I just want to prove to people RF is no big deal.

Kazuto.2798:

…snip…

Best ranger troll ever.

bla bla bla bla bla/15

I made 300 billion dollars this afternoon and bought microsoft, and I am now sitting as the head CEO of the company.

…..See how my anecdotal evidence is totally an accurate depiction of reality?

You can complain … or you can adapt.

When I get ripped because I don’t have enough condition cleanses … I slot another in my spec and go back to fighting in that match.

It works much better than if I came here and griped because I died to conditions because I didn’t have enough cleanses.

Same thing here when you have 0 defenses and don’t dodge roll, use terrain, etc. when a Range shoots you.

Kazuto.2798:

I’m not about to read two pages of people arguing, but I did see some arguments that I would like to refute.

“Dodge properly” – I’ve already said this, it takes two dodges to dodge a full rapid fire, and once it is off CD, we still would only have enough endurance to dodge some of the next volley.

“Stealth” – The stupid skill tracks, m-rons. Not only that, but most of the Rangers out there run Sic’ Em, a insta-win faceroll button against any stealth class.

“Line of sight” – How many times are you going to be able to LOS out in the open world where most fights take place (in WvW at least)? Most times, a Ranger is going to be able to land all shots from a LB.

“Block” – How many blocks that don’t end once hit do you think players have? Some classes don’t even have blocks.

“Reflect” – You really think that we should use reflects when we can slot something more useful like condition removal or stun breaks just for one class? If we are forced to do that, then it is a clear example of it being OP.

“Gap Close” – All you need to do is knock them back, use that one lightning dodge, turn around and use your swoop then take out your LB again. And before you say they can just gap close again, they’ll probably be dead from your pew pew. It takes CDs to be able to gap close and usually the ones that can cover 1200 – 1500 (traited) range are usually the most crucial “oh kitten” buttons that have long CDs, not everyone is a Warrior with a GS.

“Blind” – … How many classes can blind multiple shots within 3 seconds?

“We are just sitting there when we rapid fire” – I’m pretty darn sure you can move while you are rapid firing.

“We aren’t using anything else while we rapid fire” – You are using rapid fire, forcing the other player to either eat it, use their utilities, or use their dodges. Not only that, your rapid fire is on a short CD.

If you can just sit back and shoot players to death, that takes no skill. You hit one button on your LB and your target is either down, low health, or used crucial dodges or CDs to evade your stupid low CD ranged equivalent to hundred blades. It was a stupid skill before the patch and an even more stupider skill after the patch.

By no means am I saying the LB is uncounterable, it is and is pretty weak if your target can get close and stay close.. IF the target even gets the chance to get close.

So far every ranger this afternoon using a LB/RF against my Guardian in WvW has failed. Rapid Fire all you want, and I have a ranger mind you, but once you start I’m going to toss up Wall of Reflection on my Guardian and then engage.

The point people are making to counter the it is OP claim is that you can’t have everything and expect to win. You build for glass, you are glass in return. You build for sustain, then it is a fight over duration. If you build for support, well, you better hope the other play gets bored and leaves or don’t make a mistake.

The change yesterday has counters. It isn’t a L2P thing. It really is about situation awareness, knowing when to dodge, and counters.

McFribble.2349:

Ignoring the fact that the Ranger has the advantage of…well…RANGE, it certainly isn’t balanced in the least.

You know what melee glass cannons have as a setback to their squishiness? Having to close the gap.

So tell me, what does this new Cheese build have as a setback? It certainly isn’t long windup animations like Warrior skills. It sure isn’t condition stacking. And it sure isn’t defensive issues or the ability to “miss” your target through bad positioning like melee classes can. So, what’s the trade off?

Hate to say it, but the Ranger class has become more cheesy than Thief or Warrior ever was. Now they have a mobile/ranged Hundred Blades pre-nerf, and a stealth field. Just….lol

So you’re just going to ignore that there are two extra ways of countering ranged burst over melee? Like projectile destroying that completely negates the damage. Or you know, reflect which turns 100% of the damage back on the caster. I WISH retaliation was that effective against melee.

Speaking of retaliation, that still works too. As well as blocks, evades, and dodges. I’m kind of surprised you brought up positioning as if it’s not a viable counter to ranged damage. Have you ever heard of line of sight? It will completely negate the ranger’s damage if you just stand behind something for a few seconds. Stealth is still a viable means of negating damage since ONLY Rapid Fire will track a stealthed target, and only if it’s fired just before the target enters stealth. The change has actually made it much harder to land Rapid Fire on an invisible foe because of the shorter channel time.

In fact positioning can also outright reduce ranger damage as the longbow doesn’t hit as hard in close range as it does in melee, so positioning is again important. Longbow stealth is built around landing a shot, so you can deny them their defensive tool with a simple dodge. Stability counters the knockback which makes the gap closing even easier. Invulnerablility and the pseudo-invulnerability skills are still just as effective as they are against melee.

Then there’s the fact that the entire game mode of SPVP STRONGLY favors melee. Longbow rangers are good at picking people off during team fights, sure. But if they try to take a point 1v1 they will either give up the point or get wrecked trying to keep it contested.

Frankly if you can’t be bothered to take a reflect skill then you have to accept that you are leaving yourself vulnerable to ranged burst. It’s exactly like not bringing condition cleansing and complaining that you got destroyed by a condition necromancer. Until you show me a skill that can simultaneously down three or four melee bursts all at once, then you have nothing to complain about in terms of not being able to counter a longbow ranger.

Jim Hunter.6821:

bla bla bla bla bla/15

You sir… this forum needs more of you. And thank McLane for our machine gun. All this QQ is so hilarious.

Most blocks don’t end when they block a ranged attack unless within melee range of the target. The exceptions being Mesmer blocks … but Mesmer has reflects … in spades if you build for it

I’ve been snooping around since I’ve heard “rangers were OP” and for the most part it’s merely an annoyance and that’s only because I’m a rifle lover, therefore, no shield. The only thing I’ve noticed was the MASSIVE number of rangers everywhere, the fact that they can be extremely lame makes me feel bad about the rangers who persevered since the release or at least before it was cool. It kind of reminds me when everyone and their dog decided to roll a pistol/shield engineer without bothering to look further into the class.

Hope that eventually the trend gets to fade away.

Pretty soon people will reroll condi wars, s/p thieves, condi rangers, and x/f ele and eat all the baby power rangers.

MrForz.1953:

The only thing I’ve noticed was the MASSIVE number of rangers everywhere, the fact that they can be extremely lame makes me feel bad about the rangers who persevered since the release or at least before it was cool.

Haha, so much this. Been running LB zerker since the beta so I was testing a BM build last night and got hosed down by a couple of LB rangers. And one guy kept telling me to gtfo you fotm ranger. xD

I think the irony is lost on some people.

I got called a flavor of the month ranger earlier today as well! I was also offered tips by someone I beat suggesting to go full glass instead of built with some toughness.

Silly people.

Asquared.4091:

BAN HIGH-CAPACITY ASSAULT BOWS!

Won’t someone think of the children!?!?

You can try wrapping them in bubble wrap meanwhile! Pop pop!

FrouFrou.4958:

Asquared.4091:

BAN HIGH-CAPACITY ASSAULT BOWS!

Won’t someone think of the children!?!?

You can try wrapping them in bubble wrap meanwhile! Pop pop!

Just tested, bubble wrap does not stop arrows from hitting children. Probly won’t be posting for a while.

I’ve played several pvp matches with a melee ranger since patch-release, and I haven’t had a single problem with longbow rangers. They’re weak up front (obviously) and are usualy heavily invested to reach the longbow’s max potensial (something I’m not even sure that people realize).

A couple of tweaks and they went from being a laughing-stock to be op? Give me a break. Stop complaining and let the glass rangers have some fun until it wears off.

Being a diehard, long time ranger (I hate LB and always have, still dont own one lol) I havent tried the LB at all.

That being said, I was having fun destroying rangers in WvW last night on my mesmer(who I havent touched in months). It became a big joke. Every single one ran full glass and lol. Very few rangers will last in actual solo/team queue spvp and WvW. The ones that do are actually good ones.

When I ate a full, signet buffed barrage with no dodges, I didn’t rage and come complain. I swapped a utility/heal and reflected it back next fight.

It is just a phase that will pass in a bit. I enjoy bunker with my ranger.

Fluffball.8307:

FrouFrou.4958:

Asquared.4091:

BAN HIGH-CAPACITY ASSAULT BOWS!

Won’t someone think of the children!?!?

You can try wrapping them in bubble wrap meanwhile! Pop pop!

Just tested, bubble wrap does not stop arrows from hitting children. Probly won’t be posting for a while.

That actually made me laugh more than this thread did, good job

Perhaps this is unbearably annoying since alot of the WvW population has gone Ranger mad and all you run into a is a bunch of Bows (and often Bears) running about, turn a corner? Bear and Bow? Dodge one Rapid fire? Oh look another LB Ranger!

I’ve tried dueling a LB ranger and it’s okay I guess, once you slot in some kind of block or reflect. I guess that’s why they changed S/D and it’s flanking strike to allow us to Perma evade, right?

Kilger.5490:

Zord.6130:

Tried it all afternoon.
Easy mode.
And to all the people who say “learn to dodge” : you re just acting delusional.
A thief Backstabs me and is DPS ing me down? Just Lb #4. He uses a Shadowstep to come back to me? Lb #3 and reposition. He uses another Shadowstep to come near me? Stone Signet, then rapid fire. Dead thief.
Shadow Arts thieves are more thanks and that’s why I slot Sic Em on my utilities, and they drop like flies.
Meanwhile.

Yep this was all in the game before, gratz on learning how to play ranger! (except sic em is definately better now but still i havent seen one build that uses it since very situational).

Being able to beat 99% of thieves I’ve fought in pvp duel servers with 0 effort and only 5hours of playtime is definitely kittened.
Really, it’s too easy. When I die in WvW it’s because I have been zerged by 10+ people or because two or more thieves jump on me and I have my utilities on Cd – basically things that would kill Amy class.
I think the Signet buff is too much honestly. That is the issue, imho.
It’s fun as hell, mind me, but extremely easy. It’s like a kills hot warrior on steroids.

Zord.6130:

I think the Signet buff is too much honestly. That is the issue, imho.

This is amusing. Take the “worst” profession in the entire game in every single game mode, give them the signets that all other professions enjoy and now they’re completely OP. That’s the issue we’re currently trying to work through. There are psychologists available.

I said during and before the Ranger CDI that buffing Rapid Fire Damage and making our Signets baseline would possibly make us overpowered.

I still say it’s overpowered….until you consider that at least three other professions have easy/easier access to more damage if built for it, and you consider how easy it is to kill multiple rangers at once if you pop a simple reflect, and you consider the complete lack of survival when you run a build like this.

The Balance could benefit from having a (1/2 second or less) windup time so people know its coming. Other than that. I’ve had no problem countering it! (then again, I’ve been trolling the hell out of everyone and everything with a trap build and the new trapper runes, and haven’t really noticed an increase in Killer Rangers)

Fluffball.8307:

-snip-

I had a Ranger, deleted it, and don’t have any character slots for it anymore. I’m not about to buy another or delete a character just to duel. Also, I’m not talking about 1v1s, I’m talking about realistic WvW encounters. How many times out of all fights you encounter are 1v1s and stay as 1v1s and before you say most of them, running from an outnumbered fight is still a fight you encountered.

Sure, 1v1 against a LB Ranger shouldn’t be too difficult and is most certainly not OP. It is annoying, but not OP. But mix in the Ranger in a group fight, now that is not only annoying but is stupidly powerful.

Also to you people saying I am “complaining”, I would like to see your counterargument, if you are intelligent enough to make one on your own rather than slewing mindless insults.

Crapgame.6519:

-snip-

Cool, you slotted a reflect. Not every class has the the luxury of being able to slot a reflect. I, maining a Mesmer, slot Decoy/Blink/Mantra of Resolve. Take any of those away and I lose overall survivability. If I have to slot Feedback just for Rangers, then it would be pretty obvious how stupidly powerful it has become. Same with the other classes, some don’t have easy access to reflects, some don’t even have reflects. If we have to use a reflect to be able to fight these Rangers, you already know.

Kazuto.2798:

But mix in the Ranger in a group fight, now that is not only annoying but is stupidly powerful.

And a fresh air ele or pistol whip thief just randomly teleing in to your fight is different? K. Love that lack of spike potential.

Kazuto.2798:

Also to you people saying I am “complaining”, I would like to see your counterargument, if you are intelligent enough to make one on your own rather than slewing mindless insults.

We’ll I’ve been lavishingly tossing around the challenge that no noob RF LB ranger is going to beat me. According to you we need to step it up and go group v group, and I am down with proving that wrong as well.

We need to establish a few teammates for me. Let’s say 3 LB rangers vs me and 2 random ranger forum regulars?

PhantomClutch.7825:

Just so I understand.

Everyone defending agrees its ok to do 20k+ damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

An exotic longbow has 1000 average base damage.
Rapid Fire’s cumulative skill coefficient is 3.75.
Assume the target’s armor is 1800.
Assume Steady Focus (10% extra damage when endurance full).
Assume Eagle Eye (5% extra damage for longbow). Means no Spotter.
Assume Hunter’s tactics (10% extra damage when flanking).
Assume Peak Strength (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Scholar runes (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Sigil of Force (5% extra damage).
Assume Sigil of Bloodlust (250 extra power).
Assume 10% vulnerability from Opening Strike (5% + avg 5% from RF)

All those assumptions mandate a 45500 build. Outfitting it with exotic berserker’s armor and ascended berserker’s trinkets yields:
2355 power
51% crit chance
222% crit damage

1000 *(2355+250) *3.75 *(1+0.51*(2.22-1)) *(1+.1+.1+.1+.05+.05) *1.1 / 1800 = 13,558 damage

Methinks 20k damage from RF is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. I left out food and sharpening stone, but I think it’s pretty clear damage is nowhere near 20k. Maybe if someone else were giving you 25 stacks of might, fury, warrior banners, you might be able to hit 20k. But then you’re not facing a solo ranger, you’re facing a team who is working together to gank you.

to someone in 1.25s (if haste works how I believe it does) just because someone didn’t evade?

No, quickness does not work like that. It used to speed up attacks 100% (halved their time). But that got nerfed down to 50% last year (ranger DPS was hardest hit by that nerf, and they got the least compensation because some of their quickness didn’t get duration extensions).

2.5s becomes 2.5/1.5 = 1.67 sec.

People posting must be bad, it’s rangers did not get a 10% dps buff, they got alot more than 10%. Shortening LB2 by 50% means a straight up 50% dps increase, because you take less time to go through it.

RF wasn’t shorted by 50%. It went from 4 and a half to 2.5s. It was shortened by 44%.

And bear in mind that prior to this change, RF used to do just 93% the DPS of longbow’s autoattack.

Ranger longbow autoattack @ max range is .9/1 = 0.9 coeff/sec
Rapid Fire is 3.75/2.5 = 1.5 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.67

Warrior GS autoattack is (.77+.7+.9)/2.5 = 0.948 coeff/sec
100 blades is 5.5/3.5 = 1.57 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.66

Warrior rifle autoattack is .4/.96 = .417 coeff/sec
Volley is 3.0/2.5 = 1.2 coeff/sec
Ratio = 2.88

You really think RF’s extra DPS is out of line for a burst skill?

Also you’re forgetting the free grandmaster trait given to every range using signets, you don’t even need to trait for it, all signets now affect you too.

You mean the change that made signets work for rangers exactly like they’ve always worked for every profession except ranger? You’re trying to say that rangers deserved to have inferior signets compared to every other profession, and so bringing them up to par to everyone else is somehow doing rangers a favor?

Forestgreen.7981:

Also I said 50% damage increase on LB 2 skill specifically, not for the long bow in general. Note rangers got a straight up BUFF, and from what I saw no nerfs on a kitten thing to level the playing field.

RF does exactly the same damage as it did before. It’s just been compressed from 4.5 sec to 2.5 sec. That is, it’s DPS was increased 44%. It’s damage is the same as before.

As a weapon, if you assume longbow autoattack fills in the gaps between RF and Barrage whenever their cooldowns are up, then:

Before:
4.8 coeff / 2.75 sec every 30 sec (Barrage)
3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec every 10 sec (Rapid Fire)
0.9 coeff / 1 sec (autoattack)
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 + .9*13.75) = 28.425 coeff / 30 sec

After:
4.8 coeff / 2.25 sec every 30 sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec every 10 sec
0.9 coeff / 1 sec
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 +.9*19.75) = 33.825 coeff/30 sec

33.825 / 28.425 = 1.19 = 19% damage buff for longbow

Fluffball.8307:

We need to establish a few teammates for me. Let’s say 3 LB rangers vs me and 2 random ranger forum regulars?

Solandri.9640:

math proof

I choose Solandri as one of my team members lol.

Remember when the game first launched and people cried that Killshot was OP because if you facetanked it, it would hurt you?

Yeah, history repeats itself apparently. Baddies will always be baddies. Different day, something new to cry about.

Solandri, I love your math! Now can we stop the not so needed QQing of the “OP” ranger danger damage?

I want to use my own Math’s now! I’m only doing this to be fair to everyone for a second, and it concerns signets that increase damage.

Signet of the Hunt.
+50% damage on next attack. 30 second cooldown.
0.5×1 = 0.5
0.5/30 = 0.0167
0.5/24 = .0208

Assassin’s Signet
+15% damage for next 5 attacks.
0.15×5 = 0.75
0.75/ 45 = 0.0167
0.75/36 = 0.0208

That 0.0167 number is showing the skill’s effectiveness (total damage increase across x attacks) weighed against recharge time, and it shows that the damage increase is the same for both signets. The second number(0.0208) is with the reduced cool down trait.

Those 2 signets are balanced against each other and are equal (unless you add our pet, in which case, our effectiveness weighted against the recharge time is 0.0333/0.0416, making it a much better skill).

Now lets get to signet of the hunt. The problem with Signet of the Wild is that not only is it a 25% increase in all attacks for 8 seconds, but it also gives stability and a 50% increase in movement speed.

Being reasonable here, lets say you use a rapid fire and 5 long range shots. That’s 15 attacks total in 7.5 seconds.
0.25×15 = 3.75
3.75/60 = 0.0625
3.75/48 = 0.0781

This Signet’s damage increase is 3.74~3.75 times more effective than either Signet of the Hunt or Assassin’s Signet. There is no way in this formula to add in the effectiveness of the other two effects (8s of stability and 50% increased movement speed), so we’ll leave it at that. Also note that this is just the Ranger, we aren’t even including the damage increase from the pet.

The fact is, just the damage increase alone makes this signet almost 4 times more effective than other damage increasing signets, and therefore, is out of balance.

There is a very good chance that something gives in the next feature pack or the one after that (since that seems to be when we get balance patches….(Too slow)). Things will change, whether its a change in how Rapid Fire works, or a change in how Signet of the Wild works.

Enjoy the fun for now, and Solandri, use as much math as you want to prove we aren’t overpowered. Things will change (eventually given anet’s speed at balancing the game, but it will change)

hey guys the loot bag shoots back, now, and it actually hurts. better moan about it on the forums.

Zord.6130:

I think the Signet buff is too much honestly.

Wow, wow, wow.. calm down now.

Kazuto.2798:

Also to you people saying I am “complaining”, I would like to see your counterargument, if you are intelligent enough to make one on your own rather than slewing mindless insults.

Because you are complaining about a heavily invested and squishy ranger, a setup that I myself (and several others) that main ranger have had no problems dealing with since patch.

Fluffball.8307:

Zord.6130:

I think the Signet buff is too much honestly. That is the issue, imho.

This is amusing. Take the “worst” profession in the entire game in every single game mode, give them the signets that all other professions enjoy and now they’re completely OP. That’s the issue we’re currently trying to work through. There are psychologists available.

That’s totally wrong.
Rangers have never been the worst profession in all the game modes. In dungeons, good rangers are always appreciated. In pvp, at least until last patch, spirit rangers were really good.
In WvW roaming, the shout regen build was totally faceroll, and in general, good rangers have always been tough to kill.
Also, I don’t give a kitten about ranger’s past. The only thing I care about is balance. The Signets the Ranger has are extremely powerful – way more powerful than ANY other sigil available to other professions. And the reasons behind this its because you had to invest heavily on them to make them really useful.
Now, they have access to the longest damage immunity in the game (and it doesn’t even stop point contesting), and a flat 25% damage increase+stability for 8 seconds. And this on top of an already good ranged weapon like Longbow.
Say what you want, but this is not balance.
Just compare Protect Me with Signet of Stone… If you are focused, protect me is useless unless you have a bear. Who would ever take the former over the latter after the buffs?

After thieves can still run around and do the damage they can and never see them you have to be crazy to cry about this buff to rangers. I actually can believe that so many would cry wolf now that the ranger has a bit more of a chance to do some damage but the scenarios you all are posting are just pathetic lol. Even if they made rangers tougher some how in surviving you would still complain. There are so many ways to counter our increase speed LB shot. Besides if I hit you for 10k+ then you are running zerk like me and are no stranger to being squishy….I will be the same as you. C’mon get your heads out of your butts cry babies!! It’s only the 3rd day after the patch…of course there are going to be tons of Rangers,necros and mesmers especially out with the changes.

After a year then if you want to complain (which there is nothing to complain about) then you can cry to Anet. But before they nerf Rangers they have to nerf thieves first. And we all know thieves will never be nerfed……they are favored lol. So in the words of the movie Taken….“good luck”. Good hunting folks and stop crying and more fighting!!!

:Eats popcorn while reading the conversation:

Warning: large block of text incoming =D (yes its a rant, im so sorry T_T)

On a more serious note:
Most people that play a competitive game search for ways to have easy wins.
The way to achieve that: play what has been buffed lately, or what is considered overpowered at that moment.

The buffs on the longbow caused a surge of players from other classes, to try out their dusty improved ranger, at the moment if you play like that it is really easy and a secure way to win. People are just not ready seeing a longbow ranger on every corner of pvp/wvw. So what happens? Everyone starts complaining that rangers are overpowered, because you did not slot a reflect, or that you are not used dealing with 5 longbow rangers at once that actually deal damage, because it never happened before.

If it were just the usual amount of rangers playing post patch, it would not be a problem, because we were not that many ^^ and even if we got a damage buff, who cares, there are not a lot of rangers there to cause trouble anyway, and if they are causing trouble, its an incident, and not a rule (as we have seen the past few days, longbow rangers are everywhere, so it is more a rule that they cause trouble at the moment) ^^

But because buffs attract people from other classes, you see the instant complaining that longbow rangers are overpowered just because they are everywhere and are killing you ^^ once you slot a reflect however, and manage to reach those berserker bearbow rangers in melee, they are going to be dead (personally having a blast the past few days running a full melee ranger with offhand axe, the bearbow’s drop like flies they do ^^ and I am not the only one that changed their builds just to see those new bearbow rangers suffer =D because for everything that makes them strong, most of them do not have that much experience using the longbow/ranger, so they generally just stand on range, and once you come close they panic and die).

Once people figure out how to counter the buffed or overpowered class, that class is going to be played less, people will then stop complaining because they will not encounter as many (considered) overpowered builds anymore, and everything will be back to where it used to be, just the people that stick to ranger are going to be a bit more viable then they were before ^^

The moral of the story: Stop whining, find a counter, use it, rangers will die like flies, ranger will be played less, and your problem thinking rangers are overpowered will be solved.

Basically, the changes just brought rangers on par with other classes. With the signet changes, rangers actually have more build diversity then ever before, and it was really unfair that rangers had to invest a grandmaster trait, in a power line with a useless minor trait set (looking at you opening strike) just to be able to use signets properly.
Now it actually is a choice which utilities you take, because there are more good options without forcing your traits in a path that really limits what you can do.

Imagine doing that for mesmers, making a grandmaster trait that all your signets affect your clones/phantasms unless you trait them to also work for you, the outrage…
And it was that way with every set of ranger utilities that they needed at least 2 mandatory traits actually be viable 3 of them being grandmaster ones:
Shouts, 6NM, 2BM – Survival, 6NM, 2WS – Spirits, 4(or 6)NM – Signets 6MM – Traps, 6sk
That is the heaviest investment of traits any class would have to do for cooldowns and to make their utilities actually viable or good, and it forced you to take 3 of each ’’set’’ of utilities, because the rest will not function as optimal because you could not trait for 2 utilities at the same time.
So it was needed, very, much so, to make the signet of the beastmaster working on the ranger by default. It at least solves part of the build problems rangers have been facing.

(Am a bit stunned however, that people are only complaining about longbow rangers, and not about the amount of condition mesmers that run around the past few days, but well ^^)

Because you can just keep running and the condition Mesmer wouldn’t be able to do kitten about it. Anyway my point is Ranger can deliver a stupid amount of DPS at 1200 – 1500 (traited) range while other classes would otherwise have to be right on you to be able to deliver their burst, before and after the patch. Now that it is buffed, it has become even more mind numbing. All I’m going to get from this forum are biased Rangers trying to protect their new toy, so I’ll stop.

Kazuto.2798:

All I’m going to get from this forum are biased Rangers trying to protect their new toy, so I’ll stop.

Arguably you’re having a hard time understanding that a fair few of the rangers replying you are using a melee setup (which hardly makes the longbow our new toy – we aren’t even using it), and that none of us are having any problems countering a longbow ranger.

Zord.6130:

Being able to beat 99% of thieves I’ve fought in pvp duel servers with 0 effort and only 5hours of playtime is definitely kittened.
Really, it’s too easy. When I die in WvW it’s because I have been zerged by 10+ people or because two or more thieves jump on me and I have my utilities on Cd – basically things that would kill Amy class.
I think the Signet buff is too much honestly. That is the issue, imho.
It’s fun as hell, mind me, but extremely easy. It’s like a kills hot warrior on steroids.

The irony is most thieves consider rangers free bags. But as far as the signet buff goes you could have spec’ed for it prior to buff and do all the things you said. When i used lb I did exactly that (this was before read the wind however). If you find a thief that knows his class however he will let you blow your cool downs and then reset while you have no defence. Lb and gs is great against most thieves so not surprising you do well, but a thief that knows how to fight a ranger can avoid everything you do with your bow.

Kazuto.2798:

Because you can just keep running and the condition Mesmer wouldn’t be able to do kitten about it. Anyway my point is Ranger can deliver a stupid amount of DPS at 1200 – 1500 (traited) range while other classes would otherwise have to be right on you to be able to deliver their burst, before and after the patch. Now that it is buffed, it has become even more mind numbing. All I’m going to get from this forum are biased Rangers trying to protect their new toy, so I’ll stop.

FYI I don’t use bow, to me this is an argument whether it’s worth it to me to start using it again. I find it to be too inflexible for me and only really favors certain circumstance (which is where it’s creating the qq)

LB? Meh, I just ride the lightning into your face, then shield myself and laugh as you stun yourself to death.

Now GS rangers, THOSE are fun and good fights.