Guild Wars 2

Brienson.7319:

hey guys the loot bag shoots back, now, and it actually hurts. better moan about it on the forums.

This.

The salty thieves are my favourite. I have never had so many whispers with helpful advice after killing someone! It’s either a whisper or an ALT-F4 that thieves respond with.

Just walk up and kill the power ranger. It isn’t hard.

I think some classes are really hard to counter a ranger who play this style.

Just wait for an opportunity to : Wait for a target to be isolated and make sure that that team is losing. Put sic em and shoot. It’s kind of op to counter someone with “only attack when him/her is in losing team.”.
Thief and Necromancer are the classes that really hard to counter this ranger. They have no reflect and thief dodge is not that long enough to counter. Not to mention sic em too. Last time I counter it was Skyhammer when she shot a knockback arrow to me and I was about to use dancing dagger and she fell into the ground….

But well. Around 90 seconds cooldown for a reflect versus 2 Quicken skills with 8 seconds cooldown. Seriously. (And I run defensive traits too.)

And also ranger with this kind of playstyle will of course trying to snipe from afar and it require luck to avoid it. Unless you have a good team. Again. With the ranking view gone in spectator there is no clue to figure out who is a newbie , a diehard fanclub or whatever and that is really bad.

Kazuto.2798:

Fluffball.8307:

-snip-

I had a Ranger, deleted it, and don’t have any character slots for it anymore. I’m not about to buy another or delete a character just to duel. Also, I’m not talking about 1v1s, I’m talking about realistic WvW encounters. How many times out of all fights you encounter are 1v1s and stay as 1v1s and before you say most of them, running from an outnumbered fight is still a fight you encountered.

Sure, 1v1 against a LB Ranger shouldn’t be too difficult and is most certainly not OP. It is annoying, but not OP. But mix in the Ranger in a group fight, now that is not only annoying but is stupidly powerful.

Also to you people saying I am “complaining”, I would like to see your counterargument, if you are intelligent enough to make one on your own rather than slewing mindless insults.

Crapgame.6519:

-snip-

Cool, you slotted a reflect. Not every class has the the luxury of being able to slot a reflect. I, maining a Mesmer, slot Decoy/Blink/Mantra of Resolve. Take any of those away and I lose overall survivability. If I have to slot Feedback just for Rangers, then it would be pretty obvious how stupidly powerful it has become. Same with the other classes, some don’t have easy access to reflects, some don’t even have reflects. If we have to use a reflect to be able to fight these Rangers, you already know.

Yes, I had to slot it. Not every class has it, good. However, they have something else and guess what, I don’t have that It is actually fair. You and I both know we can’t have it all regardless of how cool it would be. It is after all a choice, give and take. Risk of running alone or in a small group and I said it early on. You should have brought a guardian or someone who can pop a reflect

Ok, new example I don’t slot a reflect. Ok? DPS/Zerk build I play from time to time. I dodge. If there are more then one I dodge twice or maybe swap weapons and get a 3rd in. Use the ground or trees. Hell, I used plenty of trees last night I thought I was a kittening lumberjack for a minute or two. I’ll then pop focus 5/shield and JI to them, cast smite condition, swap to GS, and go through my burst rotation. If they are full glass/zerk they will go down. If they don’t I’ll GS 5 and pull them in and start the dance over until they die or I do.

I will agree that facing a couple rangers in a posse over team speak who are working together, sharing targets, is pretty kitten powerful at the moment. I get it and actually agree. But do you honestly believe that is any different that say 2 warriors and a guardian or any other group of somewhat talented players?

I don’t but will be the first to say I can be utterly wrong.

Played last night on my Warrior and my Ranger.

Warrior isn’t broken … those people are just whining because a change to the game is a change gasp

Played my Ranger using 0/2/6/6/0. Ate every longbow power ranger I came across on the other team. I think only one put up a fight as he seemed to understand how to evade attacks, use his pet, and wasn’t full glass (kudos to him … told him “gf” after it).

If I was going to complain about something with the mass rangers it’d be the mass number of canines running around trying to knock me on my butt. I can only evade so much … and like to save some of those for players’ big hits … but being knocked on my butt is just as bad as not having a dodge/evade/block ready.

All that said, I’m rusty … I can’t get back to using an axe. It just doesn’t seem to mesh with me any more sadface

Sebrent.3625:

Played last night on my Warrior and my Ranger.

Warrior isn’t broken … those people are just whining because a change to the game is a change gasp

Played my Ranger using 0/2/6/6/0. Ate every longbow power ranger I came across on the other team. I think only one put up a fight as he seemed to understand how to evade attacks, use his pet, and wasn’t full glass (kudos to him … told him “gf” after it).

If I was going to complain about something with the mass rangers it’d be the mass number of canines running around trying to knock me on my butt. I can only evade so much … and like to save some of those for players’ big hits … but being knocked on my butt is just as bad as not having a dodge/evade/block ready.

All that said, I’m rusty … I can’t get back to using an axe. It just doesn’t seem to mesh with me any more sadface

Hihihihi, Sebrent said he got poked in the butt.

Fade.5904:

Power necros don’t 2 shot you…you have 20k health with guard stacks

Lol you don’t really know how much damage a zerker necro can do, do ya…

Fade.5904:

You’re deluding yourselves.
1500m, high velocity, tracking, 8 sec recharge skill that does THAT much dmg that fast is a cancer to the profession and game modes.

I have 2 lvl 80 Rangers which i’ve always loved playing, but last night running around wvw was a complete joke. I specc’ed full berzerker 6/6/xxx just to see the changes at thier full potential and it was the least fun i’ve ever had playing my ranger, Fights didn’t feel hard won at all and very very cheesey.
But unfortunately for every player like myself that likes to feel like they’ve earned a wvw kill, there will be 1000 players who just want the ‘i win’ button.

Please think before you defend or justify these changes.
Do you want Rangers to become the fotm cheesemode scrub class? because thats exactley the rep they will now get.
Have some pride in your Ranger and in your own skills because being OP gets very old very fast.

If you want hard fights you should get a Condi Mesmer, oh wait…

My main is a Ranger and for 2 years its always been the “lazy skillless noob lol” profession, we get a buff and you are that upset?
I wish they had removed the distance from #1 and leave full damage at all distances.
Put shortbow back to 1200 and point blank shot to 1500 again.
Lets not forget, frost spirit nerf which was about the only thing preventing insta kicks on pugs.

All and all I don’t think rapid fire it’s OP now, because all other classes have skills that can put out as much or more damage, longbow was always a joke so it’s about time it got some viability.

I’m one of those who dusted off their mule ranger and tested out the longbow.

And I’ve got to say it’s super OP against low skill players. That’s it. Any player with half a brain can dodge RF, reflect it back or LoS it. Where the LB play shines is in team work. Maps like Legacy of Foefire where you can move between points quickly utilizing 1500 range to sway 1v1/2v2s on far points. An unsuspected RF from the flank while CC in a 1v1 is devastating, and the pressure can quickly be put on a different point.

So it all comes down to tactics. A longbow ranger who plays conquest well with his team is now viable. A ranger who takes far point on his own and 1v1s is a bad LB ranger. If you’re traited out for max RF damage you are pretty much a sitting duck in close range. It takes 6/6/x/x/x to pull out that kind of damage, though I have wanted to try 6/x/x/x/6 for quickness/RF lolz.

And with tactics, I’ve been able to get close with my main (medi guard) and open up on them. Though, the LB are a pain now and have to be dealt with accordingly. You can’t just ignore them.

Well RF is actualy a tactical combo skill id say… Use the longbow knockdown or the pet knockdown/immobilize then use RF to burn the damage. It was that way in the beta it just happen people dont remember that before all those awfull nerf the ranger endured before release longbow could have been considered a respectable weapon in pvp. What i like is not the longbow as much as my ability to benefit from signet of the wild and signet of the hunter witheout that ridiculus marksmanship grandmaster trait. GO GO ZERKER MODE we fight as one my pets!

People complaining because now they can’t just ignore the zerk turret since it has no real burst anymore smh.

On the other hand the return of R-spike is real.

Shanks.2907:

I’m one of those who dusted off their mule ranger and tested out the longbow.

And I’ve got to say it’s super OP against low skill players. That’s it. Any player with half a brain can dodge RF, reflect it back or LoS it. Where the LB play shines is in team work. Maps like Legacy of Foefire where you can move between points quickly utilizing 1500 range to sway 1v1/2v2s on far points. An unsuspected RF from the flank while CC in a 1v1 is devastating, and the pressure can quickly be put on a different point.

So it all comes down to tactics. A longbow ranger who plays conquest well with his team is now viable. A ranger who takes far point on his own and 1v1s is a bad LB ranger. If you’re traited out for max RF damage you are pretty much a sitting duck in close range. It takes 6/6/x/x/x to pull out that kind of damage, though I have wanted to try 6/x/x/x/6 for quickness/RF lolz.

And with tactics, I’ve been able to get close with my main (medi guard) and open up on them. Though, the LB are a pain now and have to be dealt with accordingly. You can’t just ignore them.

This is true thought playing any class. Any somewhat skilled player vs. a PvE WvW achievement player for example is a free bag. Any somewhat skilled play vs. a upscale, new to the class player, or just average player will be a free bag 75% of the time. Just how it works.

Then there are those who we have all come across, regardless of class, are just unbeatable. Why? Because they are just good, above average, players. They know what to do when. Either by animation, buffs, or just kittening luck. You can’t beat those players with a OP class let alone a low yield nuke.

Sometimes we just have to admit there are better players. The RF/LB change may make those quality players seem like God or OP but suck it up and learn to dodge.

ArchonWing.9480:

I don’t really see the problem. Seems pretty fun to me. I mean a backstab thief can do a bunch of damage too and they don’t need to sit there for 2.5 seconds.

It’s true that you may have a hard time dodging the whole thing. But even if you dodge it partially, the damage goes down the toilet.

It IS fun to fight other bow rangers though, lol. It’s not really OP; many classes have builds than can kill you before you can blink. People just don’t know how to fight against rangers atm, because most probably haven’t come across many that can fight back.

Also, try taking a zerker/ranger runes build into a zerg for some real fun.

Exactly, people look at the speed and think its automatically a buff because its now faster. The other side is as you mentioned. before you could not dodge the entire burst.

Now if you dodge or LOS any part of the burst you basically avoid almost the entire burst damage.

In World vs World, the range is great when you have disorganized zergs. With zerg busters, that is still not going to be that great as they get in close and dirty … though back over a year ago when I was zerg busting, we had 10 people and 2 were rangers … but we were there primarily for Entangle and Healing Spring (Water Field). We both ran PVT. Amusingly, this was back when “Rangers sucked”.

In sPvP, Longbow is not great for holding a point as you don’t want to be that close to your target … else your damage is reduced. However, a Ranger is awesome support in sPvP now in that they can apply pressure from a distance. I’m hoping this helps change the meta a bit. Meta shifts open doors for more than just Rangers.

In PvE, the Ranger is a great selfish ranged attacker, but that range still puts them outside of boon range and spirit got a nerf/“fix” so given with one hand and punched in the nut with the other. Greatsword does help us a bit too though … though haven’t played dungeons/fractals since the patch.

As was already stated (quite brilliantly) … longbow is only OP against unskilled players as they can’t cope with being shot and can’t bother to dodge, block, line-of-sight, etc. for the short channel … or heck, use reflection and kill the noob ranger that doesn’t know how to cancel cast and stop auto-attacking.

Fade.5904:

8 sec recharge skill that does THAT much dmg that fast….

Someone here obviously doesn’t play Melee with real Gap-Closers well enough if they think that’s a long distance and a lot of damage :p

Sebrent just said it well.

The fact that the power ranger now has some burst damage and CANNOT be ignored is really going to shake the meta up. People actually have to start killing each other again in sPvP instead of just throwing tanky bodies onto the nodes.

I can attest that longbow is OP against unskilled players. It’s true. I’ve 100-0’d people in seconds with lb before patch, it’s just slightly easier now. However, against truly skilled players it is much harder to use lb now because a much larger portion of the longbow damage can now be mitigated with less mitigation time.

Sebrent.3625:

You can complain … or you can adapt.

When I get ripped because I don’t have enough condition cleanses … I slot another in my spec and go back to fighting in that match.

It works much better than if I came here and griped because I died to conditions because I didn’t have enough cleanses.

Same thing here when you have 0 defenses and don’t dodge roll, use terrain, etc. when a Range shoots you.

The difference here is that Condition cleanse helps against almost every class in the game. Reflect works well against LB Rangers. If you can’t see the differences here, I don’t know what to tell you. The ENTIRE kittenING GAME shouldn’t have to adapt itself around one class. That is a sign that one class is doing something it probably shouldn’t be doing.

Also, any of you Rangers saying “use terrain to block LOS” are idiots. Its bad enough that a Ranger on high ground as a melee build is literally impossible to counter, but to assume that there is always going to BE terrain to block LOS is grasping at some seriously worn out straws.

Met one of these today, ran up to him, accidentally pushed him and he was dead..

Fade.5904:

You’re deluding yourselves.
1500m, high velocity, tracking, 8 sec recharge skill that does THAT much dmg that fast is a cancer to the profession and game modes.

I have 2 lvl 80 Rangers which i’ve always loved playing, but last night running around wvw was a complete joke. I specc’ed full berzerker 6/6/xxx just to see the changes at thier full potential and it was the least fun i’ve ever had playing my ranger, Fights didn’t feel hard won at all and very very cheesey.
But unfortunately for every player like myself that likes to feel like they’ve earned a wvw kill, there will be 1000 players who just want the ‘i win’ button.

Please think before you defend or justify these changes.
Do you want Rangers to become the fotm cheesemode scrub class? because thats exactley the rep they will now get.
Have some pride in your Ranger and in your own skills because being OP gets very old very fast.

Still “downed” in one to two shots.

Any builds with any changes like these to counter OTHER builds are still very OP are welcomed.

Sorry, but solo one still can’t do much against some very powerful toons.

Those of you who think Ranger is OP and “better” than other toons, show me a video, show me the OP Ranger in more than ONE single video.

Show me OP Warriors and Thieves can be beaten solo, not in a group, then I will “believe” that we are viable, not OP.

Thought not.

Guys chill, this stupid thing is going to be nerfed sooner then you realize, since Anet staff are actually trying out the PVP games with guilds.
Untill then roll ranger and have fun with this stupid thing. Ranger with longbow was pretty good even before the patch, now this new patch is for those who wanna teach their grandmother to play PVP “Come on gramy, sit down here, you see this is called a ranger. now you press tab untill you target someone, then push this button, then this one, and you see, he is dead good job gramy! If they wanna get close push this. Trust me thise guys really have to work hard getting close to their targets to burst them down , while you can do it just by pushing these nice buttons”

For those that are saying “learn to dodge”) These guys clearly are not thinking . OK give me the insta kill hammer with 8 sec recharge and 1500 range with added stealth knockback, cripple skills, then you learn to dodge it)

Only time I’ve been annoyed by Power Rangers has been …

… when I’m running from a XvMe situation and one pops out of nowhere shooting me while my dodges and cooldowns aren’t available … anyone annoys me at this time.

… when I’m being XvMe’d … unless they are bad, I won’t come out of this … if they are bad … I look so awesome, lol :-p

What really kills me is that I don’t see more Ranger builds with 6 in Nature Magic. With Survival of the Fittest, I can have 3 utilities that are all stun breaks and condition removal (Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes, Signet of Renewal) … and my Elite (Entanglement).

… not to mention they give me Fury … and if I really want more cond cleanse I can take healing spring … or a bear (lmao … likely not bringing a bear).

McFribble.2349:

Reflect works well against LB Rangers.

Works well vs some other classes/builds too …

Reflects work well.
Blocks work well.
Evades work well.
Dodges work well.
Immunities work well.
Interrupting works well.
Terrain works well.
Putting your summonable/pet in between works well.

… man … if only people had some way to deal with it … lol …

McFribble.2349:

Sebrent.3625:

You can complain … or you can adapt.

When I get ripped because I don’t have enough condition cleanses … I slot another in my spec and go back to fighting in that match.

It works much better than if I came here and griped because I died to conditions because I didn’t have enough cleanses.

Same thing here when you have 0 defenses and don’t dodge roll, use terrain, etc. when a Range shoots you.

The difference here is that Condition cleanse helps against almost every class in the game. Reflect works well against LB Rangers. If you can’t see the differences here, I don’t know what to tell you. The ENTIRE kittenING GAME shouldn’t have to adapt itself around one class. That is a sign that one class is doing something it probably shouldn’t be doing.

Also, any of you Rangers saying “use terrain to block LOS” are idiots. Its bad enough that a Ranger on high ground as a melee build is literally impossible to counter, but to assume that there is always going to BE terrain to block LOS is grasping at some seriously worn out straws.

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying here. You are saying you can’t use terrain to block? I don’t know because last night out in WvW I was able to use it to my advantage as did the other rangers I engaged in. So LB vs. LB we both used the landscape to our advantage.

On my guardian I used terrain to counter it along with wall of reflection and retaliation. Didn’t matter who had the higher ground it was a fair fight because I had 3 different options to counter it and that isn’t even going down the path of using inanimate creatures (white bunnies, eagles, etc – sorry PETA) that I could have used to jump or teleport to.

Honestly, remember my main is a guardian, if you can’t adjust to this simple change to LB then you have a bigger issue. My concern isn’t the LB change, it is the mesmers torment/scepter change that I dislike.

Sebrent.3625:

Reflects work well.
Blocks work well.
Evades work well.
Dodges work well.
Immunities work well.
Interrupting works well.
Terrain works well.
Putting your summonable/pet in between works well.

… man … if only people had some way to deal with it … lol …

So what you are saying is You can deal with the very low skill requirement ranger player if you make a build that can’t do much damage and it’s only good vs this new ranger (which will soon get nerfed btw)

Or you are saying that You can do well against a very low skilled player if you are a really good player… because trust me, good rangers know when to use their skills, they don’t spam all the time so you can just dodge it

Atalas.4965:

Sebrent.3625:

Reflects work well.
Blocks work well.
Evades work well.
Dodges work well.
Immunities work well.
Interrupting works well.
Terrain works well.
Putting your summonable/pet in between works well.

… man … if only people had some way to deal with it … lol …

So what you are saying is You can deal with the very low skill requirement ranger player if you make a build that can’t do much damage and it’s only good vs this new ranger (which will soon get nerfed btw)

Or you are saying that You can do well against a very low skilled player if you are a really good player… because trust me, good rangers know when to use their skills, they don’t spam all the time so you can just dodge it

What he is probably saying is that there are options on the table regardless of class to counter.

I will say I agree 100% that good rangers post patch are crazy good right now. I say kudos to them for staying the course with the class. They deserve it.

Crapgame.6519:

Atalas.4965:

Sebrent.3625:

Reflects work well.
Blocks work well.
Evades work well.
Dodges work well.
Immunities work well.
Interrupting works well.
Terrain works well.
Putting your summonable/pet in between works well.

… man … if only people had some way to deal with it … lol …

So what you are saying is You can deal with the very low skill requirement ranger player if you make a build that can’t do much damage and it’s only good vs this new ranger (which will soon get nerfed btw)

Or you are saying that You can do well against a very low skilled player if you are a really good player… because trust me, good rangers know when to use their skills, they don’t spam all the time so you can just dodge it

What he is probably saying is that there are options on the table regardless of class to counter.

I will say I agree 100% that good rangers post patch are crazy good right now. I say kudos to them for staying the course with the class. They deserve it.

bad players were bad before the patch.Good players were real good even before the patch. Bad players are good after the patch, Good players are good after the patch and they are working kitten strategies to counter the bad players who suddenly are good)

EDIT:(stupid profanity filter! working “kitten” something is not a bad word!!)
EDIT: Oh kitten it

atheria.2837:

Fade.5904:

You’re deluding yourselves.
1500m, high velocity, tracking, 8 sec recharge skill that does THAT much dmg that fast is a cancer to the profession and game modes.

I have 2 lvl 80 Rangers which i’ve always loved playing, but last night running around wvw was a complete joke. I specc’ed full berzerker 6/6/xxx just to see the changes at thier full potential and it was the least fun i’ve ever had playing my ranger, Fights didn’t feel hard won at all and very very cheesey.
But unfortunately for every player like myself that likes to feel like they’ve earned a wvw kill, there will be 1000 players who just want the ‘i win’ button.

Please think before you defend or justify these changes.
Do you want Rangers to become the fotm cheesemode scrub class? because thats exactley the rep they will now get.
Have some pride in your Ranger and in your own skills because being OP gets very old very fast.

Still “downed” in one to two shots.

Any builds with any changes like these to counter OTHER builds are still very OP are welcomed.

Sorry, but solo one still can’t do much against some very powerful toons.

Those of you who think Ranger is OP and “better” than other toons, show me a video, show me the OP Ranger in more than ONE single video.

Show me OP Warriors and Thieves can be beaten solo, not in a group, then I will “believe” that we are viable, not OP.

Thought not.

The patch went live two days ago, and GW2 isn’t exactly the most popular game on the planet. You’d be hard pressed to find ANY videos of the game in the past 2 days, let alone one showing off Rangers 1v1ing players.

Solandri.9640:

PhantomClutch.7825:

Just so I understand.

Everyone defending agrees its ok to do 20k+ damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

An exotic longbow has 1000 average base damage.
Rapid Fire’s cumulative skill coefficient is 3.75.
Assume the target’s armor is 1800.
Assume Steady Focus (10% extra damage when endurance full).
Assume Eagle Eye (5% extra damage for longbow). Means no Spotter.
Assume Hunter’s tactics (10% extra damage when flanking).
Assume Peak Strength (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Scholar runes (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Sigil of Force (5% extra damage).
Assume Sigil of Bloodlust (250 extra power).
Assume 10% vulnerability from Opening Strike (5% + avg 5% from RF)

All those assumptions mandate a 45500 build. Outfitting it with exotic berserker’s armor and ascended berserker’s trinkets yields:
2355 power
51% crit chance
222% crit damage

1000 (2355+250) *3.75 *(1+0.51(2.22-1)) *(1+.1+.1+.1+.05+.05) *1.1 / 1800 = 13,558 damage

Methinks 20k damage from RF is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. I left out food and sharpening stone, but I think it’s pretty clear damage is nowhere near 20k. Maybe if someone else were giving you 25 stacks of might, fury, warrior banners, you might be able to hit 20k. But then you’re not facing a solo ranger, you’re facing a team who is working together to gank you.

to someone in 1.25s (if haste works how I believe it does) just because someone didn’t evade?

No, quickness does not work like that. It used to speed up attacks 100% (halved their time). But that got nerfed down to 50% last year (ranger DPS was hardest hit by that nerf, and they got the least compensation because some of their quickness didn’t get duration extensions).

2.5s becomes 2.5/1.5 = 1.67 sec.

People posting must be bad, it’s rangers did not get a 10% dps buff, they got alot more than 10%. Shortening LB2 by 50% means a straight up 50% dps increase, because you take less time to go through it.

RF wasn’t shorted by 50%. It went from 4 and a half to 2.5s. It was shortened by 44%.

And bear in mind that prior to this change, RF used to do just 93% the DPS of longbow’s autoattack.

Ranger longbow autoattack @ max range is .9/1 = 0.9 coeff/sec
Rapid Fire is 3.75/2.5 = 1.5 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.67

Warrior GS autoattack is (.77+.7+.9)/2.5 = 0.948 coeff/sec
100 blades is 5.5/3.5 = 1.57 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.66

Warrior rifle autoattack is .4/.96 = .417 coeff/sec
Volley is 3.0/2.5 = 1.2 coeff/sec
Ratio = 2.88

You really think RF’s extra DPS is out of line for a burst skill?

Also you’re forgetting the free grandmaster trait given to every range using signets, you don’t even need to trait for it, all signets now affect you too.

You mean the change that made signets work for rangers exactly like they’ve always worked for every profession except ranger? You’re trying to say that rangers deserved to have inferior signets compared to every other profession, and so bringing them up to par to everyone else is somehow doing rangers a favor?

Forestgreen.7981:

Also I said 50% damage increase on LB 2 skill specifically, not for the long bow in general. Note rangers got a straight up BUFF, and from what I saw no nerfs on a kitten thing to level the playing field.

RF does exactly the same damage as it did before. It’s just been compressed from 4.5 sec to 2.5 sec. That is, it’s DPS was increased 44%. It’s damage is the same as before.

As a weapon, if you assume longbow autoattack fills in the gaps between RF and Barrage whenever their cooldowns are up, then:

Before:
4.8 coeff / 2.75 sec every 30 sec (Barrage)
3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec every 10 sec (Rapid Fire)
0.9 coeff / 1 sec (autoattack)
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 + .9*13.75) = 28.425 coeff / 30 sec

After:
4.8 coeff / 2.25 sec every 30 sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec every 10 sec
0.9 coeff / 1 sec
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 +.9*19.75) = 33.825 coeff/30 sec

33.825 / 28.425 = 1.19 = 19% damage buff for longbow

I’m borrowing your math

Atalas.4965:

Sebrent.3625:

Reflects work well.
Blocks work well.
Evades work well.
Dodges work well.
Immunities work well.
Interrupting works well.
Terrain works well.
Putting your summonable/pet in between works well.

… man … if only people had some way to deal with it … lol …

So what you are saying is You can deal with the very low skill requirement ranger player if you make a build that can’t do much damage and it’s only good vs this new ranger (which will soon get nerfed btw)

Or you are saying that You can do well against a very low skilled player if you are a really good player… because trust me, good rangers know when to use their skills, they don’t spam all the time so you can just dodge it

Good rangers aren’t playing this ridiculous full glass build. Good rangers include traits and utilities that help them survive so they aren’t 1 gimmick walking bags.

Why is everybody complaining. There was no damage increase to rapid fire. Rangers were just as deadly before patch as they are now. So what the skills shoots a little faster, that means it’s easier to dodge. Pre-patch one dodge would negate 1/4 of the damage, now one dodge negates 1/2. Honestly, people see a big number hit them fast and they cry, while they are too ignorant to realize that the same number could be achieved pre-patch. People need to stop crying like a bunch of morons, you sound like you can’t play the game.

Atalas.4965:

Guys chill, this stupid thing is going to be nerfed sooner then you realize, since Anet staff are actually trying out the PVP games with guilds.

Conquest mode has no bearing whatsoever on the balance of the other 98% of the game that everyone else plays. Just because it’s the only mode their Balance team wants to play, doesn’t mean it should decide how the rest of the game plays. Rangers will continue to be shunned by real Guilds and a very rare sight among the Gold and Silver competing Servers.

ilr.9675:

Atalas.4965:

Guys chill, this stupid thing is going to be nerfed sooner then you realize, since Anet staff are actually trying out the PVP games with guilds.

Conquest mode has no bearing whatsoever on the balance of the other 98% of the game that everyone else plays. Just because it’s the only mode their Balance team wants to play, doesn’t mean it should decide how the rest of the game plays. Rangers will continue to be shunned by real Guilds and a very rare sight among the Gold and Silver competing Servers.

Lol, and here we have somebody who tries fruitlessly to disregard reality. I’m sad to be the one to break this to you (not really LOL), but Anet does balance around spvp. I don’t know if you realize this but they couldn’t care less about PvE balance, or especially WvW. Even if 2% of the players (wow good numbers m8, sounds really accurate), do actually play spvp, it could 0.2% and they would still try and make it an esport and balance around that one gamemode. As much as I may agree with you on how balancing takes place, there is no point denying the fact anet balances around spvp/tpvp.

warriorjrd.8695:

Why is everybody complaining. There was no damage increase to rapid fire. Rangers were just as deadly before patch as they are now. So what the skills shoots a little faster, that means it’s easier to dodge. Pre-patch one dodge would negate 1/4 of the damage, now one dodge negates 1/2. Honestly, people see a big number hit them fast and they cry, while they are too ignorant to realize that the same number could be achieved pre-patch. People need to stop crying like a bunch of morons, you sound like you can’t play the game.

Said the Ranger who’s burst time is halved now) Allright mate nobody ever explained to you what DPS means? Let’s say you have 5 seconds to deal damage, when the speed of your skills is GREATLY increased you will do more damage in 5 seconds, thus your damage is greatly increased. That is why we are counting the damage in dps. It is much easier to trash damage on an enemy if you can do it faster. Maybe it’s just that you are happy now, even if you were…not happy before because you could not win a game?

Anyway, in sPVP you are not engaging a single ranger by yourself on the whole map so you kinda have to dodge many things when you have mesmers around, engi and other wonders,and while you are exhausting your talent the ranger just climbs teh cliff and trashes you with his very short burst damage. So yeah learn to dodge… Please don’t lecture other players on things that you are clearly not familiar with

Atalas.4965:

warriorjrd.8695:

Why is everybody complaining. There was no damage increase to rapid fire. Rangers were just as deadly before patch as they are now. So what the skills shoots a little faster, that means it’s easier to dodge. Pre-patch one dodge would negate 1/4 of the damage, now one dodge negates 1/2. Honestly, people see a big number hit them fast and they cry, while they are too ignorant to realize that the same number could be achieved pre-patch. People need to stop crying like a bunch of morons, you sound like you can’t play the game.

Said the Ranger who’s burst time is halved now) Allright mate nobody ever explained to you what DPS means? Let’s say you have 5 seconds to deal damage, when the speed of your skills is GREATLY increased you will do more damage in 5 seconds, thus your damage is greatly increased. That is why we are counting the damage in dps. It is much easier to trash damage on an enemy if you can do it faster. Maybe it’s just that you are happy now, even if you were…not happy before because you could not win a game?

Anyway, in sPVP you are not engaging a single ranger by yourself on the whole map so you kinda have to dodge many things when you have mesmers around, engi and other wonders,and while you are exhausting your talent the ranger just climbs teh cliff and trashes you with his very short burst damage. So yeah learn to dodge… Please don’t lecture other players on things that you are clearly not familiar with

No, said the ranger who hasn’t touched longbow in around 6 months, good interpretation though. Rapid fire has more burst, yes, that’s it. In fact, you could get literally the same burst pre-patch by using QZ, funny how nobody cried then. Another thing I find funny, is how nobody cries about killshot. It’s got even more burst potential than rapid fire.

Please, I won many fights with my ranger, it’s not as under powered as some people would believe, so stop deluding yourself. I am probably more familiar with the game when it comes to ranger so don’t try and lecture me on how DPS works, I know it has more burst, thank you. The thing is, nobody complained about LB ranger pre-patch, and it could achieve very, very similar numbers with the right set up, but I doubt you would know that. People are acting like LB hit 200 before patch and hits 20k now. The damage buff is marginal, and we now have 1 burst skill that is viable. Now we have a skill that can do lots of damage, very quickly. I seem to remember every other class having one of those too.

But hang on.. there seems to be some kind of correlation between how well a skill bursts and how difficult it is to dodge? It seems like when you pour all your damage into one attack it can be fully dodged and negated all at once. Now correct me if I’m wrong, but decreasing the cast time on RF made it closer to a single attack than it was before ( don’t even try and say I said it was a single strike), which surely in turn means that one dodge will negate more damage?

I mean doing some super simple calculations… if we take the square root of pie… divide by the inverse of the hypotenuse angle…. multiply by 3 billion… factor out the variables… we geeeeet : L2P, the skill is now easier to dodge and is a weaker burst skill than most out there. Seriously, enough, your tears have ended several droughts.

I just want to throw this out there, and please keep in mind, I am no math expert. But I believe the DPS increase is a 16% increase for damage per second. Speaking of RF only.

Chrispy.5641:

Signet of the Hunt.
+50% damage on next attack. 30 second cooldown.
0.5×1 = 0.5
0.5/30 = 0.0167
0.5/24 = .0208

Assassin’s Signet
+15% damage for next 5 attacks.
0.15×5 = 0.75
0.75/ 45 = 0.0167
0.75/36 = 0.0208

Those 2 signets are balanced against each other and are equal (unless you add our pet, in which case, our effectiveness weighted against the recharge time is 0.0333/0.0416, making it a much better skill).

Ranger is (supposedly) balanced with ranger + pet damage considered together, so adding the pet doesn’t improve the effectiveness any. You just need to multiply 0.0167 and 0.0208 by 0.7 for the ranger and 0.3 for the pet. In other words, the figures you’ve calculated are already for the ranger + pet.

The problem with Signet of the Wild is that not only is it a 25% increase in all attacks for 8 seconds, but it also gives stability and a 50% increase in movement speed.
[…]
Enjoy the fun for now, and Solandri, use as much math as you want to prove we aren’t overpowered. Things will change (eventually given anet’s speed at balancing the game, but it will change)

Actually, I agree with you that Signet of the Wild is OP now that they made all signets affect the ranger w/o a trait. I think it’s indicative of a slightly different problem though. Pets were so weak they needed a pet super-signet to make it worth using the signet’s active. Likewise, ranger signets were so weak the actives needed to be really good to make a GM trait worthwhile.

These were problems caused by a bad design decisions (pets are weak, and signet actives only affect pets). When you try to “fix” them by shoring up skills being crippled by bad design decisions , then you suddenly change course and fix one of the bad design decisions, the shored-up skill(s) tend to be too powerful.

The buffs on SotW need to be broken up and placed into other skills, instead of lumped into a single signet (which also has regen as a passive). As things are right now, probably 99% of ranger builds are going to include Signet of the WIld. A pretty clear sign that it’s OP.

ItIsFinished.9462:

I just want to throw this out there, and please keep in mind, I am no math expert. But I believe the DPS increase is a 16% increase for damage per second. Speaking of RF only.

No, RF got a 80% DPS increase.

3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec = 0.833 coeff/sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec = 1.5 coeff/sec

1.5/0.833 = 1.8 = 80% increase in DPS

The reason it’s not wildly OP was that the original 0.833 coeff/sec was really weak to begin with (worse than the autoattack). So a good chunk of that % DPS improvement is spent bring the skill up from bad to average. Probably only 40%-60% of its improvement brings it from average to good.

It’s not OP, you can down a LB ranger within 5 seconds after they do their ONE burst skill. Use blocks or dodges, it’s not hard. It’s like complaining about full zerk thieves using back stab, very easily countered.

warriorjrd.8695:

Atalas.4965:

warriorjrd.8695:

Why is everybody complaining. There was no damage increase to rapid fire. Rangers were just as deadly before patch as they are now. So what the skills shoots a little faster, that means it’s easier to dodge. Pre-patch one dodge would negate 1/4 of the damage, now one dodge negates 1/2. Honestly, people see a big number hit them fast and they cry, while they are too ignorant to realize that the same number could be achieved pre-patch. People need to stop crying like a bunch of morons, you sound like you can’t play the game.

Said the Ranger who’s burst time is halved now) Allright mate nobody ever explained to you what DPS means? Let’s say you have 5 seconds to deal damage, when the speed of your skills is GREATLY increased you will do more damage in 5 seconds, thus your damage is greatly increased. That is why we are counting the damage in dps. It is much easier to trash damage on an enemy if you can do it faster. Maybe it’s just that you are happy now, even if you were…not happy before because you could not win a game?

Anyway, in sPVP you are not engaging a single ranger by yourself on the whole map so you kinda have to dodge many things when you have mesmers around, engi and other wonders,and while you are exhausting your talent the ranger just climbs teh cliff and trashes you with his very short burst damage. So yeah learn to dodge… Please don’t lecture other players on things that you are clearly not familiar with

No, said the ranger who hasn’t touched longbow in around 6 months, good interpretation though. Rapid fire has more burst, yes, that’s it. In fact, you could get literally the same burst pre-patch by using QZ, funny how nobody cried then. Another thing I find funny, is how nobody cries about killshot. It’s got even more burst potential than rapid fire.

Please, I won many fights with my ranger, it’s not as under powered as some people would believe, so stop deluding yourself. I am probably more familiar with the game when it comes to ranger so don’t try and lecture me on how DPS works, I know it has more burst, thank you. The thing is, nobody complained about LB ranger pre-patch, and it could achieve very, very similar numbers with the right set up, but I doubt you would know that. People are acting like LB hit 200 before patch and hits 20k now. The damage buff is marginal, and we now have 1 burst skill that is viable. Now we have a skill that can do lots of damage, very quickly. I seem to remember every other class having one of those too.

But hang on.. there seems to be some kind of correlation between how well a skill bursts and how difficult it is to dodge? It seems like when you pour all your damage into one attack it can be fully dodged and negated all at once. Now correct me if I’m wrong, but decreasing the cast time on RF made it closer to a single attack than it was before ( don’t even try and say I said it was a single strike), which surely in turn means that one dodge will negate more damage?

I mean doing some super simple calculations… if we take the square root of pie… divide by the inverse of the hypotenuse angle…. multiply by 3 billion… factor out the variables… we geeeeet : L2P, the skill is now easier to dodge and is a weaker burst skill than most out there. Seriously, enough, your tears have ended several droughts.

Nope rapud fiare is too guud.

Last night I hit a guy for elentybillion damage in 1/8 a second. He got pwned so hard the server crashed. I’m sorry dubveedub.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Sube Dai.8496:

So a build that can 1-2 shot and gets 1 shot itself is op?

Yes.

One shotting is not fun to do to people nor fun to have done to you.

It takes ZERO skill and there’s already way too many zero skill high damage combos in this game.

Don’t care what class it’s on, every time another brainless high damage combo enters the game, the game gets less fun to play.

your saying build that can oneshot but also be oneshot is OP, no its not
if you can be one shot ny something else while doing it there isnt anything wrong with oneshotting

btw i dont play this build, and my ranger is probably one of my least played characters so im not just defending the buff because I use it

Yeah rangers do try to defend this new silly thing on the forums, but believe me it will get nerfed soon no matter what you guys say. Untill then have fun with this new toy. Pro rangers admit that it’s OP right now, only newbs love it, because this is all they have)

Atalas.4965:

Yeah rangers do try to defend this new silly thing on the forums, but believe me it will get nerfed soon no matter what you guys say. Untill then have fun with this new toy. Pro rangers admit that it’s OP right now, only newbs love it, because this is all they have)

As a pro ranger that hasn’t touched longbow for a very long time, I will defend this buff. Not only is it incredibly easy to counter, but it’s the only viable burst skill rangers have. Keep in mind every other class has burst skills that can usually hit higher than this. Also keep in mind the one shot sniper rangers existed before the patch. Also keep in mind said rangers are held together with string and merely blowing on them will down them. ALSO keep in mind that the dodge button is always there if you decide to use it.

Considering it was a DPS loss over just auto attacking, I think this change is justified.

What they should do though, is change it to an instant cast, single big hit ability rather than a channel of lots of little hits. That way it can be entirely dodged / blocked / reflected. Call it kill shot or something.

warriorjrd.8695:

Atalas.4965:

Yeah rangers do try to defend this new silly thing on the forums, but believe me it will get nerfed soon no matter what you guys say. Untill then have fun with this new toy. Pro rangers admit that it’s OP right now, only newbs love it, because this is all they have)

As a pro ranger that hasn’t touched longbow for a very long time, I will defend this buff. Not only is it incredibly easy to counter, but it’s the only viable burst skill rangers have. Keep in mind every other class has burst skills that can usually hit higher than this. Also keep in mind the one shot sniper rangers existed before the patch. Also keep in mind said rangers are held together with string and merely blowing on them will down them. ALSO keep in mind that the dodge button is always there if you decide to use it.

Some Pro Ranger you are then) Yeah dodge button, dodge button that’s about the single thing you can say all day on this thread… if we are talking about wvw you might be right on a 1v1 situation, but in sPVP how much dodges does one have to clear off the constant AOE damage areas spammed by others and allso keep an eye on you and have some left to dodge when you decide to rapid fire, ah go away ya pro) defend this toy kid, but you will not be able to, because these changes are not final, and when this will be nerfed you will be among the first guys crying over it

Xiroth.9517:

Considering it was a DPS loss over just auto attacking, I think this change is justified.

What they should do though, is change it to an instant cast, single big hit ability rather than a channel of lots of little hits. That way it can be entirely dodged / blocked / reflected. Call it kill shot or something.

ahaha lol you need even shorter burst now? Poor warriors lose all their adrenaline to do it.

Atalas.4965:

warriorjrd.8695:

Atalas.4965:

Yeah rangers do try to defend this new silly thing on the forums, but believe me it will get nerfed soon no matter what you guys say. Untill then have fun with this new toy. Pro rangers admit that it’s OP right now, only newbs love it, because this is all they have)

As a pro ranger that hasn’t touched longbow for a very long time, I will defend this buff. Not only is it incredibly easy to counter, but it’s the only viable burst skill rangers have. Keep in mind every other class has burst skills that can usually hit higher than this. Also keep in mind the one shot sniper rangers existed before the patch. Also keep in mind said rangers are held together with string and merely blowing on them will down them. ALSO keep in mind that the dodge button is always there if you decide to use it.

Some Pro Ranger you are then) Yeah dodge button, dodge button that’s about the single thing you can say all day on this thread… if we are talking about wvw you might be right on a 1v1 situation, but in sPVP how much dodges does one have to clear off the constant AOE damage areas spammed by others and allso keep an eye on you and have some left to dodge when you decide to rapid fire, ah go away ya pro) defend this toy kid, but you will not be able to, because these changes are not final, and when this will be nerfed you will be among the first guys crying over it

I assume you’re one of those bads that cry about eviscerate and backstab too, because you’re too preoccupied with everything else going on, you simply don’t know when to dodge right? Anything you see a LB ranger do with rapid fire, a killshot warrior could do better, so long as you aren’t paying attention to things around you. If you don’t mind my asking, what class do you play mainly, because im 953% sure that whatever class you play, it has a skill similar to rapid fire, if not better than it. So go troll somewhere else.

PS: I don’t use a LB on my ranger, and have already killed countless longbow rangers since the patch. So I guess if you can’t then I must be better than you m8, or maybe I just know how to play the game. Either way, I don’t have an issue where you do, and yet you try and mock me by sarcastically calling me a pro. I guess I am a super pro because I can kill something that, according to you, is OP. Go figure.

I think everybody needs to step back, take a moment, and watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

And remember that Rapid Fire, based on the video, IS the E. Honda slap.

I would almost say that I want Rapid Fire to be nerfed only because
1) I would be the only ranger in my PvP team again
2) I don’t want others to counter me especially.

I played a ranger before it was cool. =)

~ Kovu