Guild Wars 2

Shadelang.3012:

Gah im not sure I want them swapped back anymore. As a shout ranger having the burst skill as something I can control as a massive part of my dmg. Before I agreed that they needed to be swapped back. But after playing with it. I find I like it as it is far more.

I do not want them to switch it back.

I also do not want them to switch back. I prefer smoke assault on the f2.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

My hero! faints

Also torn bc the burst is juicy, but smoke field hnnng. Guess it’s a good dilemma to have though.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

I love Smoke Assault, and I get the feeling you will be nerfing it even further in order to put Smoke cloud back on F2, either by lowering the damage (again) or put it on a much longer cooldown. Don’t! Just don’t!

As much as I love the utility of a smoke field, I don’t use it that much to warrant another nerf to Smoke Assault. Then again, a random smoke field doesn’t make much sense, and is pretty much useless (the added ability that the pet evades during the skill and are immune to incoming conditions is ofc pretty nice though).

Imho, just swap the skills around, but leave everything else working the same way they do now (or add something more to the smoke cloud skill, should it go back to F2).

I don’t think smoke assault is that overwhelming. If the 2 skills are simply switched, smoke cloud already is way more powerful.

I also agree with Firelysm that there is pretty close to no precedent for F2s being more powerful than family skills.

Firelysm.4967:

This pet needs mobility, not just that. Please take a look on my topic, how weak our pets are. I’ll also make moving data today, and point out how importent is that pets are buffed to smokescale level. Keep an eye on ranger forum.

I love the shadowstep-like attack of Smoke Assault, best pet attack ever. I would love to have a similar shadowstep ability on one of our shouts…

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Nerf smoke assault as much as you need to.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

please consider that an on-demand burst and the might stacks are just as valuable as the smoke field, depending on the build and the player.

is it by any chance possible to have us select a pet’s f2’s in the menu? would this take a lot of programming/work to implement? the community is really torn on this one, and I’d be really disappointed with the reversal. especially if you have to nerf Smoke Assault further. it’s in a really good place now. and we still have the smokefield, albeit not on demand. at the very least, leave Smoke Assault as is.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

I want to change my “vote” to keep Smoke Assault on F2. I was finally able to unlock it today and it’s awesome on F2.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

You just nerfed it by 50%. Since smoke assault is passive right now, you will buff it, right?

Btw rofl when I made the thread were I said I like controllable smoke assaul I got torn to pieces. But honestly … give us both. Just create a second Smokecale with a slightly different skin and swap the skills.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Thank you Irenio. This is great news! Smoke Assault shouldn’t be on F2, nor do I care that it may need nerfing to be put back as a passive skill. You go ahead and nerf it to oblivion for all I care. I just want the smoke field back on F2.

Yeah, the community is really torn… Was it something like 9 out of 10 people that prefered the old version from the poll Heimskarl posted?

The difference between having Smoke Assualt as an automatic instead of the field is that it wont interfere with anything even if you don’t manage it. And it’s way easier to utlize for burst and might stacking if you so choose to. The smoke field is crippled by being an autmatic skill, and is deemed unusable outside combat.

You can stack other ways. You can pet burst other ways. But we have no other options to the smoke field. This shouldn’t even be a discussion unless it results in us getting improved pet control.

Not sure why it would require to nerf Smoke assualt further. We got plenty of pets with strong passive skills, some stronger than the pets active. But then again, neither do I understand why this doesn’t bring up the fact that we should be able to control both skills. It would be an amazing buff and QoL change for rangers. We have had the least reliable profession mechanic since launch.

F2 shouldn’t be about which ability is strongest. F2 should be about which ability benefits most from being manually controlled.

I guess combining the two skills into one is out of the question? Without a target, just create a smokefield @ current location, with no attack. With a target, create smokefield @ targets location. Make both camps happy?

Orion.3812:

F2 shouldn’t be about which ability is strongest. F2 should be about which ability benefits most from being manually controlled.

Thank you, Orion. This is exactly what the f2 should be, but often isn’t.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Respect for this man right here.

Please give us smoke field back as the F2.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Irenio, could you please detail these “changes” required to Smoke Assault? I suspect a lot of rangers (including myself) see this as the opportunity for yet another heavy-handed nerf to one of our class mechanics (on top of the 50% damage reduction to Smoke Assault that has already taken place) and would like to know before you make a final decision.

Don’t switch it I like it.

I actually like the Assault on F2.
It gives that nice synergy with timing your BM bursts in PvP.

Smoke Field being random that’s… Simply random. You have no way to use it and for that matter you don’t need to make it a smoke field and just give pet the evasion.

I can’t decide which I want more since I’m enjoying my brightest days of PvP I ever had in my life thanks to having Assault on F2.
I’m fine with not having a smoke field. We’d still be inferior to any other skipping class and I find on demand Assault more helpful in PvP than a smoke field.

Tragic Positive.9356:

I actually like the Assault on F2.
It gives that nice synergy with timing your BM bursts in PvP.

I can’t decide which I want more since I’m enjoying my brightest days of PvP I ever had in my life thanks to having Assault on F2.
I’m fine with not having a smoke field. We’d still be inferior to any other skipping class and I find on demand Assault more helpful in PvP than a smoke field.

exactly this. rangers just need a little bit of that extra burst. taking it away from us for the smoke field would nerf a lot of builds, whereas not a single build is benefited by the smoke field.

mistsim.2748:

exactly this. rangers just need a little bit of that extra burst. taking it away from us for the smoke field would nerf a lot of builds, whereas not a single build is benefited by the smoke field.

You were in favor of a semi-controllable random smoke field because you wanted the burst for you own build. Smoke field is clearly the better group support. Why would you not be ok with the semi-controllable random smoke assault that is similar to how a brutal charge or tail swipe works? Pet abilities on every pet I can think of off the top of my head can be predicted. This is a quality of life issues, and smoke field benefits far more in this case.

And the fact this is being discussed just further highlight how badly we need more pet controls.

mistsim.2748:

Tragic Positive.9356:

I actually like the Assault on F2.
It gives that nice synergy with timing your BM bursts in PvP.

I can’t decide which I want more since I’m enjoying my brightest days of PvP I ever had in my life thanks to having Assault on F2.
I’m fine with not having a smoke field. We’d still be inferior to any other skipping class and I find on demand Assault more helpful in PvP than a smoke field.

exactly this. rangers just need a little bit of that extra burst. taking it away from us for the smoke field would nerf a lot of builds, whereas not a single build is benefited by the smoke field.

How about :

Exactly not this. Rangers just need a little bit of that extra control. Taking it away from us for the smoke assault would nerf a lot of builds, whereas not a single build is benefited by the smoke assault.

There now it makes sense. You’re welcome.

Fluffball.8307:

Why would you not be ok with the semi-controllable random smoke assault that is similar to how a brutal charge or tail swipe works?

Because I never was satisfied with random Tail Swipe, either.

And I never found any real reason why should I want smoke field. I support a theory that “not everybody is supposed to replace everyone else”
I want classes for skipping which are Thieves and Engies. And I don’t feel like I need to have closer to any of them when I know I’ll never be on par with my 2 almighty blasts and a pet ruining the skipping.

It’s like saying we no longer need classes with water fields in the game. Because we can use the item Healing Seed.
Do you see where the idea goes?

Tragic Positive.9356:

Because I never was satisfied with random Tail Swipe, either.

And I never found any real reason why should I want smoke field. I support a theory that “not everybody is supposed to replace everyone else”
I want classes for skipping which are Thieves and Engies. And I don’t feel like I need to have closer to any of them when I know I’ll never be on par with my 2 almighty blasts and a pet ruining the skipping.

Random tail swipe isn’t random at all which is why people use it as a blast finisher. We’ve just learned to live with it. Ideally tail swipe and smoke assault would both be hot-keyable.

I don’t see it as replacing engis and thieves, I see it as giving us options. Smoke assault doesn’t add as many options as a smoke field does. If I can get a brutal charge to land, I follow up with a kill. If smoke assault lands, we can do the same. You can’t make impromptu use of a smoke field.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Tbh the smoke cloud already is stronger then assault. But thanks for looking into it.

There is no reason to have a combo field on the auto chain of the pet!
Either leave the combofield away or put it in the controllable F2 command. Please.

Everything else is a huge nerve. It is already hard enough to blast the right fields in mid scale WvW fights. Random fields make the situation much harder.

My favourite pet is still the murrelow. So much build synergy <3

I honestly don’t understand why we don’t just have another keybind to access our second reliable pet skill. The respone from Anet was ‘Because it would be to difficult for new players’, although I find that a very poor answer. Anyone who chooses a pet class will most likely expect to utilise the pet as an extenstion of youself so you be two places at once, not a CC and utility bot hindered by a poor pet AI (always sad to see a Ranger just use it for the F2 and nothing else). If anything, I would say Engineer and Elementalist to be more confusing to new players with the kits and the attunement swapping, maybe even Revenant as well.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

I honestly don’t understand why we don’t just have another keybind to access our second reliable pet skill. The respone from Anet was ‘Because it would be to difficult for new players’, although I find that a very poor answer. Anyone who chooses a pet class will most likely expect to utilise the pet as an extenstion of youself so you be two places at once, not a CC and utility bot hindered by a poor pet AI (always sad to see a Ranger just use it for the F2 and nothing else). If anything, I would say Engineer and Elementalist to be more confusing to new players with the kits and the attunement swapping, maybe even Revenant as well.

IDK, they may have a point?

It took me a while to use all my pet abilities, on Hunter, in WoW.

I was more than a little confused, for a while, having never played an MMO before.

There again, as long as it doesn’t really matter if you use them both, or not, I guess it would be OK?

The real problem would be if not using them, or both of them, caused real problems.

But, if they are just going to keep it to one, then it is obviously even more important that it is always the right one.

Generally speaking, the right one will be a utility, IMHO.

Especially a powerful one, like this.

DoogySnowStalker.2069:

I honestly don’t understand why we don’t just have another keybind to access our second reliable pet skill.

Frankly, it’s simply an issue of they don’t have the code for it and don’t want to devote the resources to make it.

It’s the same reason that we can’t have saved pet names.

It is VERY CLEARLY a code issue. The whole “it’s too confusing for baby rangers” is complete horse kitten when you look at the number of buttons an engi or ele has to push. It’s just PR, and actually anti-PR because we know they’re lying.

Edit: It actually enrages me everytime this is brought up. It’s like “ok engis are adults and can push a lot of buttons but you rangers go sit at the baby table and be kittenwads.”

Why are people wanting assault as F2 now? You are saying you want your pet putting down a combo field with it’s “AI”?

You lose no damage. None. And gain all the utility, and you can still control your burst just fine by swapping to the pet, it always casts it first and it has no cast time. And you would only ever sit on this pet if your other pet had worse sustained damage (dogs), and I have found this pet to be a viable sub for the wolf that almost every build uses.

Damage is damage, rangers do plenty of sustained and burst. This is a pvp pet. In pve cats and even birds are still what you want for damage, just becuase something “bursts” and makes a big number doesnt mean it is more damage.

Smokefield can be used in both organized pvp and pve, and you can still get plenty of use out of it yourself. As a pet skill it becomes worthless for that. Where the damage never goes away, you always have that damage and still have good control over it.

Control over damage that happens anyways or Control over utility

Easy choice.

aB EXT.1287:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

My hero! faints

I think you misunderstand. That means the passive is getting nerfed, not swapped or the f2 made stronger.

F2’s should be about utility. Fields, heals, cleanses, buffs, etc. All of those should be manually controllable by the Ranger/Druid so that they can use them offensively/defensively based on their build and needs.

I really liked the Smoke field on F2, and I really enjoy Smoke Assault on F2 also. The frequency that the pet uses Smoke assault when it was an auto attack is trivial, it used it almost immediately after initiating combat and almost on cooldown otherwise.

The way it is now, you randomly get smoke fields in the middle of combat which makes the playstyle wonky and leaves very little opportunity for the Ranger/Druid to take advantage of it.

I originally had the idea for Staff/GS with smoke field on F2. In this, I could engage, smoke assault would fire, I pop wisp and vines and then ancestral grace into the F2 smoke field for stealth where I could swap to GS and get a crit Maul (Intelligence/Hydromancy) with very quick cooldown that would apply chill and damage as soon as I swapped. This made a follow up Maul (Quick Draw) much easier to land if you could maintain control of the engagement. This made for a very powerful combination (against low skill opponents). You could also pop the F2 and Ancestral Grace into it for a little heal/stealth to buy you some time if the engagement was not going in your favor then follow with a GS swap for chill/damage and double leap away (GS Swoop/Swoop with Quick Draw).

I would be a fan of the extra utility, but I would hate to see Smoke Assault be nerfed even more if it needed to be brought down to a lesser power. The drakes get the breath attacks on their F2’s, but their tail/whirl does much more damage, for comparison.

Shadelang.3012:

Gah im not sure I want them swapped back anymore. As a shout ranger having the burst skill as something I can control as a massive part of my dmg. Before I agreed that they needed to be swapped back. But after playing with it. I find I like it as it is far more.

that’s what ive been sayin! on-demand burst baby.

Jephiroth.3197:

I originally had the idea for Staff/GS with smoke field on F2.

this only works in your fantasies. the smoke field is only useful for opening up in stealth. cant really use it in the middle of a fight because more often than not, your blast finishers will be used on something else.

smoke field on f2, while nice for organized teams, is way overrated, mostly by inexperienced players. a small on-demand burst AND might for stacking…it’s simple, reproducible and practical. useful.

the smoke field is a minor benefit, and the pet casts it after Smoke Assault. use it there if u can, otherwise leave it alone. they’ve been beating the ranger into a bloody pulp with all the nerfs, I don’t want Smoke Assault getting nerfed.

nice to see it get changed back.

but WHY the hell you need to nerf smoke assault AGAIN for this?!!!?

stop this ridiculous over nerfing on ranger allready.
thought it gets better.
but no, instantly when druid become viable in pvp you need to destroy lingering light.

and now you want to nerf on the smokescale again just because of f2 ability change?!?!
i say you something, let us use both active skills of the pets or create a second smokescale, easy!

Don’t change it if it lead to Smoke Assault nerf.

Stop nerfing THESE Class allreadY!
Irenio, you have ruined enough of ranger mechanics, so just don’t touch what was left…

Wtf, Smoke Assault does not need to be nerfed again.

The best change would really be to let us pick the F2. If possible.

The naysayers appeared, I’m not even surprised that much.
Guys the smokescale in it’s current form isn’t good in pve period, if you are afraid of losing the pvp burst, I think you should try out a snow owl or raven in pvp, the burst skill of those birds does great dmg, afak it is less reliable, but in exchange they can apply passive pressure that the smoke scale just cannot do. Or are you guys playing the sickem build???

Tragic Positive.9356:

Fluffball.8307:

Why would you not be ok with the semi-controllable random smoke assault that is similar to how a brutal charge or tail swipe works?

Because I never was satisfied with random Tail Swipe, either.

And I never found any real reason why should I want smoke field. I support a theory that “not everybody is supposed to replace everyone else”
I want classes for skipping which are Thieves and Engies. And I don’t feel like I need to have closer to any of them when I know I’ll never be on par with my 2 almighty blasts and a pet ruining the skipping.

It’s like saying we no longer need classes with water fields in the game. Because we can use the item Healing Seed.
Do you see where the idea goes?

The pet does not ruin skips (that’s what tonics are for) & the 2 blasts are fine, since blasting is a group effort. What you need to understand is that having a smoke field means that you will be taken in a fractal group as a ranger, opposed to not being taken.

Bump for revert

Bump for revert.

Or at least give us another tamable Smokescale with the F2 Smoke Cloud.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Please don’t listen to these people.. Having the pets highest damage as f2 is ESSENTIAL.

“some change to Smoke Assault” = another nerf to it’s damage.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

Wtf are you investigating? Is it hard to understand that u just ruined the class completely? The class which was already in a bad spot? Is it hard to understand? Does it need to be investigating? Are you Sherlock or what? Maybe deduction will work for you? Let me help. If the whole ranger forum is blasting with rage, frustration, annoyance and hatred that means that YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS kittenING CLASS. I don’t care if I use swear words because I payed my hard-earned 50$ for this kitten, where I just can’t play the class I want cause it is being nerfed to oblivion every kittening day and I even can’t complete the kittening story because of bugs. TONS OF THEM.

So what needs to be investigated? I have already investigated everything and came to a conclsusion – **** you and **** your game.

Cheers.

Geshque.1326:

Wtf are you investigating? Is it hard to understand that u just ruined the class completely?

Wow. Because if the WHOLE CLASS hinged on one f2 skill, then that’s pretty much proof positive that skill is busted. Thanks for clarifying that this absolutely needed to get changed, likely for the weaker.

Man, think of all those poor useless rangers out there who don’t even have the stupid pet.

Norrath.5910:

Why are people wanting assault as F2 now? You are saying you want your pet putting down a combo field with it’s “AI”?

You lose no damage. None. And gain all the utility, and you can still control your burst just fine by swapping to the pet, it always casts it first and it has no cast time. And you would only ever sit on this pet if your other pet had worse sustained damage (dogs), and I have found this pet to be a viable sub for the wolf that almost every build uses.

Damage is damage, rangers do plenty of sustained and burst. This is a pvp pet. In pve cats and even birds are still what you want for damage, just becuase something “bursts” and makes a big number doesnt mean it is more damage.

Smokefield can be used in both organized pvp and pve, and you can still get plenty of use out of it yourself. As a pet skill it becomes worthless for that. Where the damage never goes away, you always have that damage and still have good control over it.

Control over damage that happens anyways or Control over utility

Easy choice.

This is what it should be, not press F2 for DPS. Smokescale has been proven to have less dps in total than Tiger and few other pets anyway, no point trying to hold on to this smoke assault having good damage. It’s most identifiable characteristic is it’s unique smoke field. If you people vouching for smoke assault for F2 want it for dps, you’re choosing the wrong pet for it. No other pets have smoke field, so that should be the focal point of the use of this pet.

Norrath.5910:

Why are people wanting assault as F2 now? You are saying you want your pet putting down a combo field with it’s “AI”?

They aren’t.

Look at the results of that poll…

It’s like I always say – take what most people say on forums with a huge pinch of salt.

Half the time, they don’t even play the class in question, or are just trolling and/or lying (frankly) and/or looking out for their own selfish interests and almost invariably, they are not representative of the majority of players.

Even polls, posted on forums, should be viewed with extreme caution.

But, they are still more reliable than blind comment counting.

Nike.2631:

Geshque.1326:

Wtf are you investigating? Is it hard to understand that u just ruined the class completely?

Wow. Because if the WHOLE CLASS hinged on one f2 skill, then that’s pretty much proof positive that skill is busted. Thanks for clarifying that this absolutely needed to get changed, likely for the weaker.

Man, think of all those poor useless rangers out there who don’t even have the stupid pet.

No.

That is not how this works.

If the whole class hinged on that F2 skill, that is pretty much proof positive that the whole class is in desperate need of attention.

It doesn’t mean you take, even the very little that Ranger has (or did have), away until you can do that.

Sad as it is that Rangers can’t get hold of this pet, without purchasing HoT, you’re not just balancing Rangers with Rangers, here.

You’re supposed to be balancing Rangers with every other class in the game.

Lest we forget.

Nike.2631:

Geshque.1326:

Wtf are you investigating? Is it hard to understand that u just ruined the class completely?

Wow. Because if the WHOLE CLASS hinged on one f2 skill, then that’s pretty much proof positive that skill is busted. Thanks for clarifying that this absolutely needed to get changed, likely for the weaker.

Man, think of all those poor useless rangers out there who don’t even have the stupid pet.

It did not hinge on it, it was just a much anticipated feature. Imagine what would happen if engis lost smoke bomb. It’s almost exactly the same thing. (bomb kit skill vs. pet f2)