Guild Wars 2

Firelysm.4967:

“If he’s that person, he’s probably right..”
Most stupid kitten you can read on forum.

Being in a majority doesn’t make you right, either.
Galileo comes to mind.
So where’s the “truth”?

You might as well stop “assaulting” people for their opinions. It doesn’t lead the thread anywhere. It only derails the thread with useless information that no one is interested in.

Even I – who you believe that wants the assault which isn’t even true – used better arguments why having smoke field makes more sense than you. So please, calm down already. No one is interested.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Firelysm.4967:

“If he’s that person, he’s probably right..”
Most stupid kitten you can read on forum.

Being in a majority doesn’t make you right, either.
Galileo comes to mind.
So where’s the “truth”?

You might as well stop “assaulting” people for their opinions. It doesn’t lead the thread anywhere. It only derails the thread with useless information that no one is interested in.

Even I – who you believe that wants the assault which isn’t even true – used better arguments why having smoke field makes more sense than you. So please, calm down already. No one is interested.

I’m perfectly fine mate, don’t you worry for me, as i’ve told you several times;)
Other people already told you, that you like to go out of context a lot, on purpose:)

Sorry I don’t want to waste time on your arguments, every thing that you ask or try to talk about was already discussed with you or was addressed that this does not meet this theme discussion. If you forgot what we were talking about, do yourself a favour and browse the topic to refresh your memory

#NoBashing
#TryingToBeNice

@Firelysm

I believe watching the topic from developer’s side of view is as important as matter of balance. As a developer of the game, you want to make changes that are both logical and social-friendly.
If you argument the change with “I want the ability swapped because I want others to use their preferred ability in a clunky way, not myself” – that’s nowhere near solid.
If that is your only ground of defense the ability might never be swapped back. Simply because as a developer – swapping it back might mean pleasing you and displeasing others – which makes it an unnecessary change that will cause yet another backfire of people who wanted the other option – which will make you drop the idea as a developer. Why? Because people that hated you for the change will not thank you back and only new ones will appear.

I didn’t forget what we were talking about. I was trying to explain things (that do include the topic) to you from other perspective than yours and without success because you didn’t even listen and took everything as an attack. And I believe you still think I want to keep the Smoke Assault. Just as you keep missing my message the whole time.

Since others already provided much appreciated support – it doesn’t really matter anymore. It shows that vast majority, veteran players included, want to have it swapped back and even the list of pros dominated the list of cons.

I just wanted to try one last time to make you understand what part of the discussion you didn’t understand despite my issues as you called it.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Firelysm

I believe watching the topic from developer’s side of view is as important as matter of balance. As a developer of the game, you want to make changes that are both logical and social-friendly.
If you argument the change with “I want the ability swapped because I want others to use their preferred ability in a clunky way, not myself” – that’s nowhere near solid.
If that is your only ground of defense the ability might never be swapped back. Simply because as a developer – swapping it back might mean pleasing you and displeasing others – which makes it an unnecessary change that will cause yet another backfire of people who wanted the other option – which will make you drop the idea as a developer. Why? Because people that hated you for the change will not thank you back and only new ones will appear.

I didn’t forget what we were talking about. I was trying to explain things (that do include the topic) to you from other perspective than yours and without success because you didn’t even listen and took everything as an attack. And I believe you still think I want to keep the Smoke Assault. Just as you keep missing my message the whole time.

Since others already provided much appreciated support – it doesn’t really matter anymore. It shows that vast majority, veteran players included, want to have it swapped back and even the list of pros dominated the list of cons.

I just wanted to try one last time to make you understand what part of the discussion you didn’t understand despite my issues as you called it.

Do you even listen to yourself? Please, this time, i sincerely ask you personally, to go back, from the beginning of this thread, and read my suggestions, and read your suggestion. Please STOP the bullkitten man, poor devs have to read wall of text of nonsense. You didnt come here to state what and why is your argument. YOU came here to provokate people, argue and troll them, reddirect the purpose of topic and give us lectures of things that don’t have any connection with current content. I’m asking you, can you please stop spamming? Again, every thing that you ask of me, is already answered 100x, please go read the thread from beginning.Thx.

There’s multiple reasons why this should be swapped back.

1) Control over the stealth.
2) Better timing on pet invulnerability.
3) Prevent combo field overlap.

As oppose to the current F2 which can practically be used to it’s full potential through AI controls (this skill could be on autocast and still be as useful as a player using it), the Smokefield NEEDS player control to be used to it’s full potential.

There is no debating this. It was right before they swapped it.

ps: Smoke Assault doesn’t need another nerf.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Reasons why Smoke Field:
- ooc use
- synergy with Signet of Renewal and Empathic Bond
- active tanking mitigation game-style
- utility use for highly organized PvP game-style

Reposting for better visibility and bumps.

Firelysm.4967:

LughLongArm.5460:

Firelysm.4967:

Eurantien.4632:

For the general population smoke assault on F2 is the better decision. For top tier PvP either is situational. It is a real shame we can’t control every pet skill.

Exactly opposite, F2 smoke field you meant to say, while majority even expressed that in poll.

He meant to say exactly what he said , and Eura is actually the creator of this thread and top level PvP player, So this coming from him says a lot.

Hi my friend, i couldn’t care less who he is:)
And he said something that did not meet the data that is shown in F2 changes poll, and did not meet the suggestion of people that were actually playing pvp with me or against me. So where is that “general population”, your personal opinion? That’s not general population and it doesn’t matter who you are ROFL.

It’s pointless to argue with clueless people Every one that knows what’s up with Smoke & assault changes can only laugh in comments like this.

“If he’s that person, he’s probably right..”
Most stupid kitten you can read on forum.

Dud, I couldn’t care less what you couldn’t care less about.

Tragic , spare your efforts on this guy. I think that by this time devs got all the info they need/want about this subject and will take actions acordinly.
Every known and respectable member of this forum regardless to his opinion on this matter, understands the trade-off and apriciates the fact that “play around” methods are not nearly as good as having a skill on F2.
This guy, no clue where he came from, will most likly get skimmed and ignored by everyone that matters, you should do the same.

Eurantien.4632:

For the general population smoke assault on F2 is the better decision. For top tier PvP either is situational. It is a real shame we can’t control every pet skill.

Since when?

Fairly certain no one wants a smoke screen which will randomly hit whenever the pet feels like it. It is a nuisance for both you and your party if anything it’s a liability.

LughLongArm.5460:

Firelysm.4967:

LughLongArm.5460:

Firelysm.4967:

Eurantien.4632:

For the general population smoke assault on F2 is the better decision. For top tier PvP either is situational. It is a real shame we can’t control every pet skill.

Exactly opposite, F2 smoke field you meant to say, while majority even expressed that in poll.

He meant to say exactly what he said , and Eura is actually the creator of this thread and top level PvP player, So this coming from him says a lot.

Hi my friend, i couldn’t care less who he is:)
And he said something that did not meet the data that is shown in F2 changes poll, and did not meet the suggestion of people that were actually playing pvp with me or against me. So where is that “general population”, your personal opinion? That’s not general population and it doesn’t matter who you are ROFL.

It’s pointless to argue with clueless people :) Every one that knows what’s up with Smoke & assault changes can only laugh in comments like this.

“If he’s that person, he’s probably right..”
Most stupid kitten you can read on forum.

Dud, I couldn’t care less what you couldn’t care less about.

Tragic , spare your efforts on this guy. I think that by this time devs got all the info they need/want about this subject and will take actions acordinly.
Every known and respectable member of this forum regardless to his opinion on this matter, understands the trade-off and apriciates the fact that “play around” methods are not nearly as good as having a skill on F2.
This guy, no clue where he came from, will most likly get skimmed and ignored by everyone that matters, you should do the same.

You are right, devs should have all the info by now. They are the only people who matter in the final decision. Being smart, they listen to the whole community, then decide ;)

Some will be unhappy with the decision, having control over a skill is always better than having it on auto-cast (everybody understand that, not just the “known and respectable members of this forum”). That’s pure logic.
Still, the situation is worse if Smoke Field is the one on auto-cast. There are more people who want it reverted back to F2, more PROs to it and great arguments have been provided. There are even posts which summarize the PROs and CONs of both solutions quite well.

On a side note, relevancy isn’t measured by a post count (and if it were to be, his post count is close to yours), or being part of a PvP team, or streaming on Twitch.

I can agree with all your proposed suggested solutions, selectable f2, secondo skill on f3, double smokeskale. For now i’d just like to see Smoke Cloud reverted on f2. I think i’m part of the general population, anyway not having control over an utility is far more annoying for me than not having a ready dps button.

Well it got replaced. I will adapt. GG. We can have this thread removed now.

Its replaced and the damage has been nerfed into the ground, GG.

I’m very happy with this change, obviously :-)

Three lessons to be learned here for you boys. And possibly girls.

1.) Don’t call so much attention to one skill/pet or you will end up getting it nerfed a lot. Still playable but barely right now. And FYI, the smoke field is now BUGGED. Doesn’t blind. So gg boys. Gg

2.). Stop being such Eurantien fanboys. His personal skill level is above average at best. I’ve dueled better Rangers. So what he says shouldn’t be the word of “God”. Nomsayin?

3.). The real issue at hand here isn’t the revert and changes to the pet’s F2 skill but rather…we should be able to micromanage ALL of the pet’s skills then this discussion wouldn’t even be happening. So anet needs to add more control over our pets. That simple. Why complicate it to swapping out the f2’s? Logic boys. Logic.

Lettuce.2945:

2.). Stop being such Eurantien fanboys. His personal skill level is above average at best. I’ve dueled better Rangers. So what he says shouldn’t be the word of “God”. Nomsayin?

This is a big one. No disrespect to Eurantien, but too many people follow him so blindly. He is not our god and thanks to this thread we now have a smoke assault that is pathetic in damage and a smoke field that probably only a handful of people even know how to use to it’s full potential.

Waiting for the thread to change it back to smoke assault. So much for easy might stacking lol.

BOOO, terrible change Anet. You killed a great pet by giving into forum warriors that DO NOT represent the vast majority of players in this game.

well… I guess I’m still going to use it. Smoke Assault is still a gap closer and takedown is nice to have. Just have to try and forget it used to be much better.

LegallyBinding.4937:

BOOO, terrible change Anet. You killed a great pet by giving into forum warriors that DO NOT represent the vast majority of players in this game.

Dude, you know there was a poll right (around 300 people voted last I checked)? Smoke field on F2 won by an absolute landslide. It is fair to say from that sample that the vast majority of people wanted the smoke field. Forum warriors or not, the vocal majority got what they wanted.

Also, you can still do the exact same burst combo with basic pet management.

In my opinion if Smoke Field is gonna end up our F2 it needs to act as a normal blind field because it doesn’t blind enemies currently.

Awesome. The issue is that if it blinds I think it would have to increase the cool down though. So then what’s better a smoke field we can combo through with projectiles more, or a blind field? I kinda prefer it the way it is.

LegallyBinding.4937:

BOOO, terrible change Anet. You killed a great pet by giving into forum warriors that DO NOT represent the vast majority of players in this game.

Based on Heimskarl’s poll of a few hundred, people overwhelmingly wanted the smoke field on F2. Where are you getting your data from?

DrJingles.6257:

Do you think 300ish people represent the entire population of pvp rangers? That’s an honest question.

It’s definitely statistically significant, and it was so overwhelmingly lopsided that it really says a lot. Anet got this one right.

Excellent. Will test the pet again to see if the results.

Edit: Thank you, thank you, thank you ANet for this change! The pet is now awesome again. As a healer, this change is a Godsend.

I am glad the smoke field is back on F2. Smoke assault is easy enough to manage on auto cast and it is not a DPS loss as the auto cast smoke field was. The damage nerf part is … uh.. whatever

Do you see the backfire of the Assault voters? Called it.

Anyways, this is exactly what deserves the attention.

1.) Don’t call so much attention to one skill/pet or you will end up getting it nerfed a lot. Still playable but barely right now. And FYI, the smoke field is now BUGGED. Doesn’t blind. So gg boys. Gg

2.). Stop being such Eurantien fanboys. His personal skill level is above average at best. I’ve dueled better Rangers. So what he says shouldn’t be the word of “God”. Nomsayin?

3.). The real issue at hand here isn’t the revert and changes to the pet’s F2 skill but rather...we should be able to micromanage ALL of the pet’s skills then this discussion wouldn’t even be happening. So anet needs to add more control over our pets. That simple. Why complicate it to swapping out the f2’s? Logic boys. Logic.

These are the words of wisdom. Especially the need for more control.

Lettuce.2945:

Three lessons to be learned here for you boys. And possibly girls.

1.) Don’t call so much attention to one skill/pet or you will end up getting it nerfed a lot. Still playable but barely right now. And FYI, the smoke field is now BUGGED. Doesn’t blind. So gg boys. Gg

2.). Stop being such Eurantien fanboys. His personal skill level is above average at best. I’ve dueled better Rangers. So what he says shouldn’t be the word of “God”. Nomsayin?

3.). The real issue at hand here isn’t the revert and changes to the pet’s F2 skill but rather…we should be able to micromanage ALL of the pet’s skills then this discussion wouldn’t even be happening. So anet needs to add more control over our pets. That simple. Why complicate it to swapping out the f2’s? Logic boys. Logic.

Smoke field never blinded, so not really a bug. Just not the best design.

Also, they reduced the cool down on unrelenting assault and it is the first skill your pet wants to use. You can still might stack with it (now more frequently too). This is really the best option until we get full pet control.

Personal note: I’d love to learn from your better ranger friends and learn their tricks vs reapers!

THX Anet for returning the smokefield to our controll.

Why do we have to be Eura fan boys if we agree with him? The pet is objectively better now, in every way you could want it to be. Better DPS and better utility.

Fluffball.8307:

Why do we have to be Eura fan boys if we agree with him? The pet is objectively better now, in every way you could want it to be. Better DPS and better utility.

I believe it was rather meant in larger picture.
Having Eura’s opinion as a word of god is wrong. Most of us already treasure him because his ideas are decent and supported with experience.
But there are plenty of those who follow his ideas because he is a good and quite famous player.

Yep, having the pet as a utility one now feels as good as ever. +1 to developers.

Good job Euratein, you nerfed Smokescale into the ground.

We need damage not smoke screens…

Pets are 95% resistant to damage in pve anyway so smoke is useless

In pvp it is useless.

In wvw it is useless.

Swap it back! I want my on demand burst that actually hits, unlike almost every other pet.

Yes, yes. Rangers going at each others’ throats. Well played, Anet!

If you think the current iteration of smoke scale has been nerfed, this is simply a learn to play issue.

Fluffball.8307:

DrJingles.6257:

Do you think 300ish people represent the entire population of pvp rangers? That’s an honest question.

It’s definitely statistically significant, and it was so overwhelmingly lopsided that it really says a lot. Anet got this one right.

Self selected polls are never statistically significant.

Eurantien.4632:

If you think the current iteration of smoke scale has been nerfed, this is simply a learn to play issue.

Just wondering, do you always make asinine comments? Seems like you have a “learn to post” issue…

Just suck it up people, already.

There are other pets with burst for PvP. And for stable DPS – spiders are still dominant since they can hit moving targets. If you want a reaaaaaally reliable burst pet – ask for Bristleback fix.

SmokeScale is now much better utility PvE pet, as well. If you really wanted to use it for DPS – you must have been playing a wrong game this entire time.
And it definitely is a better solution since you now have an on demand damage mitigation ability and it doesn’t lower your DPS by stopping attacks for smoke field.
It really is sad how many people really intended to bring a tanking utility pet into content for DPS – and not even as DPS as much as the single burst ability traded for a while pet. That really is shocking if you ask me.

I called it a million times that there will always be some of you who’ll be displeased with the news. For plenty of people these news were good ones.
One of you just had to lose. Bear the reality and move on.

What Tragic said. As it goes right now the Smokescale is much more user friendly for casual PVE Rangers who don’t care about hitting zephyrs and carrion bond when ever it is up. He might just replace the Bearbow now because not only is he tanky with a bit of burst but has damage mitigation on 20 second cooldown 16 if you run beastmaster that also blinds with your pew pew pew. Don’t really see a problem here for PVE.

10 days later and the title was changed.

You guys DO know that the smokefield being controlled by the AI lowered the overall DPS of the pet, and that the smoke assault is controllable just like the wolf knockdown, making it an incredible pet, right? Like, you have full control over a now more effective pet?

I think what Eura and others are trying to say is that you shouldn’t want to use training wheels and be less effective when you can be more effective without them.

Also try putting the pet on passive and learn to manually control it. You’ll see night and day improvements with how you can utilize your pets.

jcbroe.4329:

You guys DO know that the smokefield being controlled by the AI lowered the overall DPS of the pet, and that the smoke assault is controllable just like the wolf knockdown, making it an incredible pet, right? Like, you have full control over a now more effective pet?

I think what Eura and others are trying to say is that you shouldn’t want to use training wheels and be less effective when you can be more effective without them.

Also try putting the pet on passive and learn to manually control it. You’ll see night and day improvements with how you can utilize your pets.

Im less annoyed at the swapping than the overall nerf of smoke assault. It wasn’t just damage they nerfed this time. They ALSO hurt the might stacking capabilities as well as its synergy with Sic Em. In general. 3/6 shouts got hurt by this change. For shout rangers that makes this pet…significantly less desirable. Its still better than the alternatives. But thats less because of the capabilties of the pet and more the fact that the other pets aren’t reliable enough to count on (Im looking at you wyverns with your kittening ridiculously slow attacks.)

Shadelang.3012:

jcbroe.4329:

You guys DO know that the smokefield being controlled by the AI lowered the overall DPS of the pet, and that the smoke assault is controllable just like the wolf knockdown, making it an incredible pet, right? Like, you have full control over a now more effective pet?

I think what Eura and others are trying to say is that you shouldn’t want to use training wheels and be less effective when you can be more effective without them.

Also try putting the pet on passive and learn to manually control it. You’ll see night and day improvements with how you can utilize your pets.

Im less annoyed at the swapping than the overall nerf of smoke assault. It wasn’t just damage they nerfed this time. They ALSO hurt the might stacking capabilities as well as its synergy with Sic Em. In general. 3/6 shouts got hurt by this change. For shout rangers that makes this pet…significantly less desirable. Its still better than the alternatives. But thats less because of the capabilties of the pet and more the fact that the other pets aren’t reliable enough to count on (Im looking at you wyverns with your kittening ridiculously slow attacks.)

Oh definitely. Without violating the cross-posting rule:

…
If you ever get around to it, the guard/passive feature is archaic. Pets should be placed in what is called passive mode permanently, and doing so would open up more UI space AND have the added benefit of a class mechanic that always feels interactive and educates players at an early stage in the game. Not to mention…

…getting around to turning the F1 and F3 into a single button toggle (F1 locks the target, toggles to return, which on use performs the current F3. No cooldown except whatever may be necessary to process server commands so it functions exactly the same). Performing the above change opens up UI space to add a second controllable pet skill.

Just think, we could have both Smoke Assault AND the smoke field on demand (and every other pet would get 2 controllable skills of course. Would love to control the Spider’s poison field, for example, or the birds swiftness, or the moas heal). The players would be happy, the mods would be happy because every other topic wouldn’t be this ridiculous tug of war over what skill should be controlled, and you would be happy because it would be one less highly requested and desperately needed feature off your checklist.
…

:)

I don’t know who this Eurantien guy is but I already hate him.

Daharahj.1325:

I don’t know who this Eurantien guy is but I already hate him.

Just wait till they fix the Celestial Avatar bugs I submitted.

Just so everyone is aware:

You can easily keep track of when smoke assault is available by watching your pet swap cd. Since 20s = 20s and 16s is pretty close to 15s you can reliably swap to smoke scale and use the assault if you wish, then by watching the pet swap cool down you can reliably F3, F1 your pet for a burst again before swapping to another pet, if you wish. If you just want to use it at some point during the pet swap timer it is a good idea to just gauge timers based on other skills. I really do believe smoke field on F2 gives you way more control than ever before.

morrolan.9608:

Self selected polls are never statistically significant.

It’s the only option we have. All polls are self select on the internet. The people who weren’t able to self select for it probably don’t care or play at a level that matters for pet controls. The people who care about ranger enough to check out the forums overwhelmingly wanted it the way it is now.

Daharahj.1325:

I don’t know who this Eurantien guy is but I already hate him.

Why don’t you stop with absurd posts like this and continue asking for nerfs to Ancient Seeds in the PvP forum? Eurantien had little to do with this change, he created the thread, which 50 others would have done if he had not. I’d say the poll in which 85% of Rangers wanted the SC on the F2 had 10x more influence, democracy works!

A smoke field on f2 is far more useful in all 3 game modes then smoke assault. Furthermore, SA behavior is predictable.

Smart decision, thanks Irenio.

Eurantien.4632:

Daharahj.1325:

I don’t know who this Eurantien guy is but I already hate him.

Just wait till they fix the Celestial Avatar bugs I submitted.

Which one did you submit?