Guild Wars 2

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reveal

Thank you for your time.

Now, some artwork. http://i.imgur.com/NiCYc.png

IDEAS FROM THE COMMUNITY

Rottaran Owain.6789:

I’d say make it so that traps reveal thieves.

YumCHA.8706:

Some tracking ability that has a relation to the Ranger’s lore of nature etc etc. This ‘Reveal’ could also be tied to some sort of Nature Magic skill.

I agree that it must be an Elite skill, but the Cooldown must not be no more than 2 minutes.

I would be happy with a Reveal Elite skill that lasts for 5 seconds and a cooldown of 60 seconds. That’s completely fair in a PvP situation.

As for the animations. The elite skill would be activated sending a shockwave of visible senses awakening the ranger’s ability to reveal stealthed enemies with a reasonable range (ie. 1200). Stealthed enemies could be seen as spirited entities, relating to nature magic I suppose. A Ranger’s ‘sixth sense’ if you will.
once the Ranger activates the ability to reveal stealthed enemies, the enemies immediately lose their stealth and everyone within range can see them. Not just the Ranger himself. Because lets face it, once you reveal a stealthed enemy, he/she is visibly exposed out in the open where anyone can clearly spot them.

So that could be a tradeoff for having one profession that has the ability to reveal stealthed enemies.

This would make Rangers more wanted in PvP as they alone have the ability to counter stealth for a short period of time. That small window is crucial for an offensive strike in any PvP scenario.

Fellknight.4820:

Reveal should be a ground targeted large circle drop that takes the thief or Mesmer out of stealth and drops the reveal debuff on them just as if they attacked from stealth.

AND

Give pets a detect hidden ability non clickable that they randomly perform that does the exact same thing just like the pets current aoes. Prolly give this to wolves or cats.

Luriyu.6873:

i just don’t like the idea on an elite… Let thief traps and ranger traps prevent stealth/disable stealth skills for 2 seconds upon activation. the hard counter is just not to run into them, while still giving very situation based awareness.

this gives both thieves and and rangers more anti-thief, and increases build variability for both. if thieves want to counter thieves easier then they use a trap.

by doing this you’re not pigeon holding class meta and actually increases the efficiency of a trapper-style ranger, and the introduction of a new skill isn’t needed, as most rangers can generally fit room for a trap utility. it doesn’t force people out of invisibility unless the individual is stupid enough to activate the trap instead of run around it.

if the thief or mesmer is smart they’re just gonna teleport away anyway, wait for the 2 seconds to end and then come back to fight.

DragonFlu.7314:

I’m thinking the “guard” skill that plops your pet into a defensive position should also give your pet the ability to detect/remove stealth. That’s where you can get the “sniffed out” flavor for our pets as well as provide some sort of way to handle stealth.

YumCHA.8706:

Lets just make it perfectly clear. These are just raw ideas. They do not in anyway shape the main ideas for what revealing stealthed enemies should really be. I agree that it becomes a problem when its an elite skill.

Maybe if it was tied to the Pet Mechanic, it would make more sense since canines have the acute sense of smell. Another suggestion perhaps for revealing stealthed enemies. Maybe some sort of passive ability. It can be broadened from there.

What is a Ranger if he can’t even track his own enemies? What kind of hunter class design did Anet have in mind that bares no tracking ability or ‘reveal’?

Poor design is poor. Infact terrible given the current state Rangers are in.

arcaneclarity.5283:

Ranger just needs tracking as a skill to reveal stealth.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Any way we could possibly get a skill that negates stealth and makes it unusable for up to 15 seconds at a range of 300 units with a 25 second cooldown? It would also instantly knock anybody in stealth out of it if they enter that AoE. I believe it would help with our usefulness in PvP, and would serve as a slight nerf to thieves and anybody who uses stealth (in case you weren’t planning on nerfing the stealth for thieves, which is in dire need of it).

Bump

exactly what I was posting for on the spvp forum here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Rangers-there-weakness-destroys-class-balance/first#post874224

Only to watch a thousand thieves start the QQ at the very thought, stating insane things like having track or reveal would = no more thieves when that has never been the case in every MMo to date.

So this is about Rangers having the ability to ‘reveal’ stealthed enemies? I’ve already wasted my words in another useless thread some weeks ago about the same suggestion but people defended against it as a bad decision to give Rangers some sort of tracking ability for stupid reasons.

Mostly because they implicated that it might become too overpowered and misused in the PvP environment. Not to mention thiefs aren’t the only profession that have the ability to stealth. I do believe mesmers have something similar.

Imagine the QQ threads placed upon Rangers when we actually have a tracking skill that reveals stealthed enemies in an instant. They would be calling for nerfs 24/7.

I really just don’t understand why Anet designed a hunter style profession that has no ability to track stealthed enemies AT ALL. What could possibly have been in their minds? I mean, isn’t this class called a Ranger? Seriously.

TL;DR
Stealth is overpowered and needs a counter-offensive like oh I don’t know…. a tracking skill?

mesmer invisibility isn’t really that bad either…it’s just when they got full clone setup that it’s a pain in the kitten they almost alwayse run back so just run past if possible. their elite skill invisibility isn’t that bad because there could be worse elite skill choices.

giving ranger a reveal on utility (even on a 20-35 second cd) would atleast deny the thief their disengaging ability short of them teleporting away via shortbow, and prevent them from regenerating initiative safely forcing them to run and pay more attention to their initiative.

A ranger without track or reveal is like a thief without stealth leaves no point to having the class in the game.

That Thief shortbow No.5 teleport should be deleted. It’s unacceptable. They already have stealth for survivability. Now they need teleportation as well? Wow Anet. Just wow.

YumCHA.8706:

So this is about Rangers having the ability to ‘reveal’ stealthed enemies? I’ve already wasted my words in another useless thread some weeks ago about the same suggestion but people defended against it as a bad decision to give Rangers some sort of tracking ability for stupid reasons.

Mostly because they implicated that it might become too overpowered and misused in the PvP environment. Not to mention thiefs aren’t the only profession that have the ability to stealth. I do believe mesmers have something similar.

Imagine the QQ threads placed upon Rangers when we actually have a tracking skill that reveals stealthed enemies in an instant. They would be calling for nerfs 24/7.

I really just don’t understand why Anet designed a hunter style profession that has no ability to track stealthed enemies AT ALL. What could possibly have been in their minds? I mean, isn’t this class called a Ranger? Seriously.

TL;DR
Stealth is overpowered and needs a counter-offensive like oh I don’t know…. a tracking skill?

Please, think of a good thing Reveal would bring to everyone who gets to play. How could this ability be fun for the Thieves as well? It’s a very touchy subject, so let’s jut try and talk about Reveal and all that would be great about it.

YumCHA.8706:

That Thief shortbow No.5 teleport should be deleted. It’s unacceptable. They already have stealth for survivability. Now they need teleportation as well? Wow Anet. Just wow.

I know that teleporting is kinda broken, but lets talk about Reveal and how it might work.

Luriyu.6873:

mesmer invisibility isn’t really that bad either…it’s just when they got full clone setup that it’s a pain in the kitten they almost alwayse run back so just run past if possible. their elite skill invisibility isn’t that bad because there could be worse elite skill choices.

giving ranger a reveal on utility (even on a 20-35 second cd) would atleast deny the thief their disengaging ability short of them teleporting away via shortbow, and prevent them from regenerating initiative safely forcing them to run and pay more attention to their initiative.

Clones are another story. I think you really need to be packing an axe to fight a mesmer, but I just can’t use the axe against a thief when my gs is on cooldown. But, yes a good counter to their ability to pick fights and escape so easily. It wouldn’t be a direct attack against all that is holy about Thief. Just a situational skill on a long cool down. And that’s giving up a 20 second stability Elite Skill. So, we would lose a really good steroid.

I’d say make it so that traps reveal thieves, but that just push rangers further into a trap/condition only mindset.

Some tracking ability that has a relation to the Ranger’s lore of nature etc etc. This ‘Reveal’ could also be tied to some sort of Nature Magic skill.

I agree that it must be an Elite skill, but the Cooldown must not be no more than 2 minutes.

I would be happy with a Reveal Elite skill that lasts for 5 seconds and a cooldown of 60 seconds. That’s completely fair in a PvP situation.

As for the animations. The elite skill would be activated sending a shockwave of visible senses awakening the ranger’s ability to reveal stealthed enemies with a reasonable range (ie. 1200). Stealthed enemies could be seen as spirited entities, relating to nature magic I suppose. A Ranger’s ‘sixth sense’ if you will.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

I’d say make it so that traps reveal thieves, but that just push rangers further into a trap/condition only mindset.

I liked the trap build for a while, but I think everyone could probably fit at least one trap in their utility hotbar. We don’t have the best utility and if traps we able to reveal stealth…EVERYONE WOULD BE USING TRAPS. This would be perfect. Now, Thieves start using traps and think of new ways to kill us instead of spamming or doing the 3 second insta-gib macro.

YumCHA.8706:

Some tracking ability that has a relation to the Ranger’s lore of nature etc etc. This ‘Reveal’ could also be tied to some sort of Nature Magic skill.

I agree that it must be an elite skill, but the Cooldown must not be anymore than 2 minutes.

I would be happy with a Reveal skill that lasts for 5 seconds and has a cooldown of 60 seconds. That’s completely fair in a PvP situation.

As for the animations. The elite skill would be activated sending a shockwave of visible senses awakening the ranger’s ability to reveal stealthed enemies or reasonable range. Stealthed enemies could be seen as spirited entities, relating to nature magic I suppose. A Ranger’s ‘sixth sense’ if you will.

I like it. So, this would only apply to the Ranger. It’s different than what I was thinking where Reveal would grant vision to everyone next to you, so it would tie into a support role. Like when you’re trying to save someone from being stealth stomped you could possibly save them.

Yes. I was thinking more of a stand alone Ranger ability as an elite skill. But that’s just my opinion. Others would agree that it should be a group buff, which is fine. There’s no problem with that.

The one thing I forgot to mention is, once the Ranger activates the ability to reveal stealthed enemies, the enemies immediately lose their stealth and everyone within range can see them. Not just the Ranger himself. Because lets face it, once you reveal a stealthed enemy, he/she is visibly exposed out in the open where anyone can clearly spot them.

So that could be a tradeoff for having one profession that has the ability to reveal stealthed enemies.

This would make Rangers more wanted in PvP as they alone have the ability to counter stealth for a short period of time. That small window is crucial for an offensive strike in any PvP scenario.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

YumCHA.8706:

So this is about Rangers having the ability to ‘reveal’ stealthed enemies? I’ve already wasted my words in another useless thread some weeks ago about the same suggestion but people defended against it as a bad decision to give Rangers some sort of tracking ability for stupid reasons.

Mostly because they implicated that it might become too overpowered and misused in the PvP environment. Not to mention thiefs aren’t the only profession that have the ability to stealth. I do believe mesmers have something similar.

Imagine the QQ threads placed upon Rangers when we actually have a tracking skill that reveals stealthed enemies in an instant. They would be calling for nerfs 24/7.

I really just don’t understand why Anet designed a hunter style profession that has no ability to track stealthed enemies AT ALL. What could possibly have been in their minds? I mean, isn’t this class called a Ranger? Seriously.

TL;DR
Stealth is overpowered and needs a counter-offensive like oh I don’t know…. a tracking skill?

Please, think of a good thing Reveal would bring to everyone who gets to play. How could this ability be fun for the Thieves as well? It’s a very touchy subject, so let’s jut try and talk about Reveal and all that would be great about it.

Actually a reveal would be a counter play move against thieves. Its mere existence would greatly increase the playing experience for everyone. The thief no longer has the assurance of being able to get away, which makes their experience more intense, and more satisfying when they do kill. For everyone else, It means that thieves would most likely incorporate more survivability into their builds, which means they get to fight longer (1 or 2 attacks from the thief)

I’d be happy with a 30 point trait that allows you to keep stealthed enemies targeted and attack them while in combat. (always find it silly that a stealth based class can stand in the middle of a football field and not be seen). I’d settle for a 10 or 20 point trait in beastmastery that allows our pets to ‘detect’ stealthed players and attack them (successful attacks remove them from stealth)

It would probably be a good idea to re-edit your original post Panther Chameleon and add the different type of ideas related to revealing stealthed enemies that these posters have already mentioned.

Reduces the congestion of ideas being all over the place and gathering it all up in one area. Making it easier for people to read.

Just a suggestion.

Reveal should be a ground targeted large circle drop that takes the thief or Mesmer out of stealth and drops the reveal debuff on them just as if they attacked from stealth.

AND

Give pets a detect hidden ability non clickable that they randomly perform that does the exact same thing just like the pets current aoes. Prolly give this to wolves or cats.

I like the idea of a trait that adds a stealth breaker to traps, and I also like the idea of adding a “sniff out” ability to certain pets (preferably an F2 ability on some of the less used pets). The pet one would be more “track-ish” and wouldn’t drop the thief’s stealth, but the pet would attack hidden targets and it’s position would tell everyone where the thief was and where the ranger should try to drop his traps. I think setting an Elite skill that counter’s stealth would hurt the Ranger class overall; because, then the only elite Rangers would ever choose to use in PvP would be the reveal. I realized the same could be said about the trap trait and pet skill, but it would allow Rangers to choose different traps, switch traps based on situation and group setup, or even run exclusive trap setups. As an added bonus, it would make thieves more likely to find less used escape routes, and it would add a bit more consideration on where to use stealth.

I just had an idea in another thread:
Why not let combo fields reveal stealth? Stealthed players would see them, so they can avoid them. It would also give the ability to reveal stealth to all classes.

Holland.9351:

I just had an idea in another thread:
Why not let combo fields reveal stealth? Stealthed players would see them, so they can avoid them. It would also give the ability to reveal stealth to all classes.

Because having to set up a combo field, hope a stealther stands in it and then use an ability to have reveal would allow a stealther to escape too easily negating the purpose of having any form of stealth reveal in the first place.

Stealth is a core class mechanic to thief it can’t be given to ever class.

Just as Track/Reveal is a core class mechanic to rangers and shouldn’t be given to every class. It be like giving necro pets to every class doesn’t fit the theme or role the class was based off of.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Give it a really long cooldown…or some kind of cool visual effect. Think of a strobe light where instead of just straight up taking everyone out of stealth they blink in and out of stealth for 3 sec

Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but you want to waste an elite slot, for a “reveal” type of skill that

a) has a really long cooldown, by that I guess you mean 4 minutes+ ?

and

b) lasts for a puny 3 seconds?

IF this is what you meant, I’m sorry but who in their right mind would ever take such an unbelievable underpowered elite – ever?

*

Pets being able to stick to stealthed targets would be a nice thing though. Not attacking through stealth, just following the stealthed opponent.

What a worthless ability… How do you have such an issue with thieves? They can barely burst through 3k armor by themselves (by barley I mean they can’t) and their stealth is a minor inconvenience at best, now when a ranger stealths ohohohoh do you throw people off!! That’s when the real OPness comes in!

this is ridiculous, i already posted a response in another thread about this im not going to repeat myself but seriously stealth detection is not needed in this game at all

Psychrome.9281:

this is ridiculous, i already posted a response in another thread about this im not going to repeat myself but seriously stealth detection is not needed in this game at all

Especially since stealthed players effect the terrain lol, oh it’s so funny knowing where a thief is in WvW because they move some of the plantlife so you unload in that area and get rewarded with a downed thief =D!

PS: They removed stealth effecting most of the environment in sPvP and tPvP for some stupid reason, I remember when you could butcher thieves in Nifhel because of all the water xD

Durzlla.6295:

What a worthless ability… How do you have such an issue with thieves? They can barely burst through 3k armor by themselves (by barley I mean they can’t) and their stealth is a minor inconvenience at best, now when a ranger stealths ohohohoh do you throw people off!! That’s when the real OPness comes in!

In a 1v1 fight in W3, I lose to a thief 49/50 times. And stealth has everything to do with that. I get maybe one or two hits on him before I’m downed. And furthermore, the fact that they can use their finishing move under stealth is just plain wrong…my pet is useless as a class mechanic under that situation. Granted my armor isn’t all that great, but I shouldn’t have to have 3k armor just to have the possibility of survival.

Well I don’t use berserker gear, I have 20 in marks, 20 in skirmishing, and 20 in survival. and I do switch to sword when in melee range. I never said I want to outburst them, I don’t know where that comes from. If they are stealthed and catch me with my bow equipped sometimes I don’t even have time to switch and attack before I’m down. It doesn’t matter what weapon I have equipped at the time if I am down in 3 seconds while blinded and immobilized.

Your argument is silly if you think the simple act of carrying a bow somehow means that I should die 100% of the time by a thief.

Fellknight.4820:

A ranger without track or reveal is like a thief without stealth leaves no point to having the class in the game.

I’m actually no thief fan boys have raged on this thread yet.

Obsidian.1328:

Well I don’t use berserker gear, I have 20 in marks, 20 in skirmishing, and 20 in survival. and I do switch to sword when in melee range. I never said I want to outburst them, I don’t know where that comes from. If they are stealthed and catch me with my bow equipped sometimes I don’t even have time to switch and attack before I’m down. It doesn’t matter what weapon I have equipped at the time if I am down in 3 seconds while blinded and immobilized.

Your argument is silly if you think the simple act of carrying a bow somehow means that I should die 100% of the time by a thief.

What gear do you use? And your scenario is essentially like me saying “My rangers so OP because i can burst someone down from 1500 before they can even get in range because I caught them with their Melee weapons!”

The fact ONE thief destroys you in 1v1 before you know they’re there shows you’re only geared for offense, an thus are the ideal victim.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Give it a really long cooldown…or some kind of cool visual effect. Think of a strobe light where instead of just straight up taking everyone out of stealth they blink in and out of stealth for 3 sec

Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but you want to waste an elite slot, for a “reveal” type of skill that

a) has a really long cooldown, by that I guess you mean 4 minutes+ ?

and

b) lasts for a puny 3 seconds?

IF this is what you meant, I’m sorry but who in their right mind would ever take such an unbelievable underpowered elite – ever?

*

Pets being able to stick to stealthed targets would be a nice thing though. Not attacking through stealth, just following the stealthed opponent.

So a reveal to the most op’d mechanic in the game is worthless, when it’s something that every smart player would just about kill for, but Natures Spirit isn’t? LOL and why does reveal suddenly have a 4 minute cooldown when no other elite has a CD that long.

<Scratches head>

Are you serious lol you gotta be trolling

Durzlla.6295:

What a worthless ability… How do you have such an issue with thieves? They can barely burst through 3k armor by themselves (by barley I mean they can’t) and their stealth is a minor inconvenience at best, now when a ranger stealths ohohohoh do you throw people off!! That’s when the real OPness comes in!

Really because i have a thief and i’ve never lost to ranger in 1v1 never will never can. doesn’t matter if I’m condition spec’d, burst dual dagger spec’d or dual pistol spec’d.

LOL I’ll burst through 3k toughness like you didn’t even have toughness sit in Shadow Refuge collecting 10 stacks of might with hidden assassin blow my Assassin signet collecting 5 more stacks of might and backstab you for 12k with 6 k mug steal to boot. i’ll prove it on any hotjoin I fear no ranger on my thief only a below rank 10 thief with lil to zero knowledge of the class couldn’t beat a ranger 1v1. You’d have to be using illegal radar mod to beat me and sadly some rangers in guilds i wont mention are but for those not hacking you got no chance NONE!

And wether or not Ranger’s need in 1v1 isn’t the point the point is stealth needs a counter, Rangers are missing the core mechanic that always been a part of there class. what your saying makes as much sense as thieves without stealth.

Just give me ONE example of a game with stealth that didn’t include a Ranger/Scout/Hunter with reveal mechanics besides this one. But we both know you can’t.

@Durzlla Hmm, well I have mostly rare’s with a few exotics. Good vitality but I could use more toughness. I have 2.2k armor, I don’t know if that’s good or bad. And rangers don’t really have any burst damage aside from using QZ with my sword, which is usually a one-use-per-encounter skill. The longbow is used more for CC.

What I usually try to do if I know a thief is coming is use Barrage centered on me, switch to sword/dagger, and move around the that aoe waiting for him to show up. I also use muddy terrain to slow him down some. I also don’t have a reliable cond removal for blindess and immobilize that I can use more than once(I’ve mentioned this in other threads to be fair). And the sword root isn’t foolproof, you can disengage from it for all sorts of reasons and be sitting there swinging in one place hitting nothing. Maybe my reaction time is slow or something. /shrugs

Look, the stealth mechanic should always be the thief’s bread & butter, I use one too. But I don’t need nearly the same amount of reflexes and focus on my thief as I do on my ranger. Rangers have to fight tooth and nail against thieves.

As for the downed-state scenario, I think I have a valid point. I don’t know of any other class that can use their finishing move completely unhittable by the downed player. Well there is a 1% chance to do it I guess. And that 1% can only be from a pet, if it has an aoe F2 skill, and if it’s not on cooldown, and if it’s not dead, and if it gets back to you in time….

I don’t at all think rangers need skills that reveal stealth, particularly because only one other profession uses it, and it’ll just annoy a lot of people on both sides. As for unveiling enemies on the map – that sounds nice, but it’s more of a divination than actual tracking, plus the ranger elites are actually great in itself (well, two out of three is good!).

WeWantWaffles.2873:

I don’t at all think rangers need skills that reveal stealth, particularly because only one other profession uses it, and it’ll just annoy a lot of people on both sides. As for unveiling enemies on the map – that sounds nice, but it’s more of a divination than actual tracking, plus the ranger elites are actually great in itself (well, two out of three is good!).

I’d be forced to disagree with you because of the 200,000 collective post/replies on thread’s complaing about stealth mechanics. That’s 20% of the entire playerbase.

And aren’t you forgeting about the mesmer the class you play which can also stealth. There are 8 professions in this game 2 of them can stealth that is again 20% of the professions which can use this mechanic. Name me two other professions that have have such a huge impact on pvp teamplay, you have guardian and um guardian and um guardian lol see.

So if you use logic I’d say that 20% is a huge number that dictates a great need. Only one class in wow could stealth and they saw fit to give Hunter’s reveal and they had 10 classes. They gave a vastly powerful mechanic like stealth a counter just so rogue’s would be forced to play as smart as they force there victims to play.

Is it the WoW skill where you can place a mark on one player and they are unable to stealth for a little while? I liked that idea.

aPutridCorpse.8792:

Is it the WoW skill where you can place a mark on one player and they are unable to stealth for a little while? I liked that idea.

They had two Mark which was a debuff that kept a player from going stealth once it was on them and flare a large radius AoE ground drop that revealed anyone stealthed inside of it.

They could also track stealthers in a very small radius no ability that powerful has been proposed yet players act as if the mere suggestion of that type of mechanic is devestating to class balance.

NO! allowing a player to re-stealth every 6 seconds in combat and giving them the highest burst dmg in the game is devestating to class balance. This is just a readjustment of that pure insanity.

Fellknight.4820:

WeWantWaffles.2873:

I don’t at all think rangers need skills that reveal stealth, particularly because only one other profession uses it, and it’ll just annoy a lot of people on both sides. As for unveiling enemies on the map – that sounds nice, but it’s more of a divination than actual tracking, plus the ranger elites are actually great in itself (well, two out of three is good!).

I’d be forced to disagree with you because of the 200,000 collective post/replies on thread’s complaing about stealth mechanics. That’s 20% of the entire playerbase.

And aren’t you forgeting about the mesmer the class you play which can also stealth. There are 8 professions in this game 2 of them can stealth that is again 20% of the professions which can use this mechanic. Name me two other professions that have have such a huge impact on pvp teamplay, you have guardian and um guardian and um guardian lol see.

So if you use logic I’d say that 20% is a huge number that dictates a great need. Only one class in wow could stealth and they saw fit to give Hunter’s reveal and they had 10 classes. They gave a vastly powerful mechanic like stealth a counter just so rogue’s would be forced to play as smart as they force there victims to play.

And I’m forced to disagree with you darling, because mesmers don’t spam stealth at all. They have it as an extra feature that’s generally helpful, but only used to evade attacks for a bit. Thieves, however, manage to chain stealth to more stealth, and often do so because Shadow Refuge is a broken utility skill that does not do what it is supposed to do.

Now, even so, 25%* (= math) of all professions use stealth, so your answer is to give 12% of the players a counter while everyone else gets nothing? It’s the wrong way to deal with a problem. Fix stealth, don’t give a kitten world of warcraft skill with no good additional uses just to counter a single game feature.

WeWantWaffles.2873:

Fellknight.4820:

WeWantWaffles.2873:

I don’t at all think rangers need skills that reveal stealth, particularly because only one other profession uses it, and it’ll just annoy a lot of people on both sides. As for unveiling enemies on the map – that sounds nice, but it’s more of a divination than actual tracking, plus the ranger elites are actually great in itself (well, two out of three is good!).

I’d be forced to disagree with you because of the 200,000 collective post/replies on thread’s complaing about stealth mechanics. That’s 20% of the entire playerbase.

And aren’t you forgeting about the mesmer the class you play which can also stealth. There are 8 professions in this game 2 of them can stealth that is again 20% of the professions which can use this mechanic. Name me two other professions that have have such a huge impact on pvp teamplay, you have guardian and um guardian and um guardian lol see.

So if you use logic I’d say that 20% is a huge number that dictates a great need. Only one class in wow could stealth and they saw fit to give Hunter’s reveal and they had 10 classes. They gave a vastly powerful mechanic like stealth a counter just so rogue’s would be forced to play as smart as they force there victims to play.

And I’m forced to disagree with you darling, because mesmers don’t spam stealth at all. They have it as an extra feature that’s generally helpful, but only used to evade attacks for a bit. Thieves, however, manage to chain stealth to more stealth, and often do so because Shadow Refuge is a broken utility skill that does not do what it is supposed to do.

Now, even so, 25%* (= math) of all professions use stealth, so your answer is to give 12% of the players a counter while everyone else gets nothing? It’s the wrong way to deal with a problem. Fix stealth, don’t give a kitten world of warcraft skill with no good additional uses just to counter a single game feature.

So now were playing pretend? were going to pretend that Mesmer’s don’t use prestige on 30 second cd, Decoy on 30 cd with illusions celerity 5 trait skill and they dont use those abilities the moment they repop. I don’t know about you but 2 steath’s in a 30 sec timeframe sure seems like alot to me. That is effectively the ability to stealth every 15 seconds only 9 seconds less than a thief can. Not to mention veil and mass invisbility on 90 second CD that last 4 or 5 seconds a peice 5-6 with prismatic understanding trait.

Yes I have a mesmer too only I won’t pretend that when i play mine I don’t use one of the most powerful tools at there disposal. You know that they won’t “FIX stealth” whatever that means which is why you are not proposing any solution to the problem. Just opposing a mechanic that would negatively impact your main class which is in most players opinion vastily OP’d, having the cofusion of clones PLUS invis mechanics to boot.

Same old same old. I am getting flashbacks to stealth in DAOC when it launched. If an assassin could one shot you from stealth, they wouldn’t unstealth. Assassins could see archer stealthers a mile away. Very unbalanced at the beginning.

GW2 is in the same boat. Completely ludicrous what Thiefs can do with stealth …and their movement. Obviously will be adjusted but very annoying before it happens.

I’m thinking the “guard” skill that plops your pet into a defensive position should also give your pet the ability to detect/remove stealth. That’s where you can get the “sniffed out” flavor for our pets as well as provide some sort of way to handle stealth.

Obsidian.1328:

@Durzlla Hmm, well I have mostly rare’s with a few exotics. Good vitality but I could use more toughness. I have 2.2k armor, I don’t know if that’s good or bad. And rangers don’t really have any burst damage aside from using QZ with my sword, which is usually a one-use-per-encounter skill. The longbow is used more for CC.

What I usually try to do if I know a thief is coming is use Barrage centered on me, switch to sword/dagger, and move around the that aoe waiting for him to show up. I also use muddy terrain to slow him down some. I also don’t have a reliable cond removal for blindess and immobilize that I can use more than once(I’ve mentioned this in other threads to be fair). And the sword root isn’t foolproof, you can disengage from it for all sorts of reasons and be sitting there swinging in one place hitting nothing. Maybe my reaction time is slow or something. /shrugs

Look, the stealth mechanic should always be the thief’s bread & butter, I use one too. But I don’t need nearly the same amount of reflexes and focus on my thief as I do on my ranger. Rangers have to fight tooth and nail against thieves.

As for the downed-state scenario, I think I have a valid point. I don’t know of any other class that can use their finishing move completely unhittable by the downed player. Well there is a 1% chance to do it I guess. And that 1% can only be from a pet, if it has an aoe F2 skill, and if it’s not on cooldown, and if it’s not dead, and if it gets back to you in time….

You see, this is the problem, you just run around waiting for him to appear, i hack and slash like a mad man while he’s invisible because if you’re using a sword you can hit him and then if you do hit him it chains into the next skill, which is a leap, which will launch you forward, and then if you hit him during that launch you can leap 2 more times forward and BOOM he can’t keep up with you, and he just wasted his stealth, you gained an IMENSE amount of distance, did -some- damage, and if he keeps going for you you can keep leaping because of how the sword works.

The reason i say to take bonfire is for when they finally can’t stealth anymore without first hitting you and have to fight you like a man, you drop the bonfire and you can either fight them head on in there (which is a death sentence for a thief, no thief wants 8+ seconds of burning as well as additional damage for being -in- the aoe and then what ever you dish out with the sword), and if they stand back you can go to longbow and snipe them, still burning them due to the fire projectile field, not to mention your pet is also fighting them.

Fellknight.4820:

WeWantWaffles.2873:

I don’t at all think rangers need skills that reveal stealth, particularly because only one other profession uses it, and it’ll just annoy a lot of people on both sides. As for unveiling enemies on the map – that sounds nice, but it’s more of a divination than actual tracking, plus the ranger elites are actually great in itself (well, two out of three is good!).

I’d be forced to disagree with you because of the 200,000 collective post/replies on thread’s complaing about stealth mechanics. That’s 20% of the entire playerbase.

And aren’t you forgeting about the mesmer the class you play which can also stealth. There are 8 professions in this game 2 of them can stealth that is again 20% of the professions which can use this mechanic. Name me two other professions that have have such a huge impact on pvp teamplay, you have guardian and um guardian and um guardian lol see.

So if you use logic I’d say that 20% is a huge number that dictates a great need. Only one class in wow could stealth and they saw fit to give Hunter’s reveal and they had 10 classes. They gave a vastly powerful mechanic like stealth a counter just so rogue’s would be forced to play as smart as they force there victims to play.

2 can stealth lol? My engie has a stealth and my ranger can stealth as well, so i count 4, that’s half of the profs, and just because 20% complain about a mechanic doesn’t mean it’s bad or broken, Remember how many people complained about how Melee was broken and underpowered after launch? It’s a good thing Anet didn’t listen to them or else melee would be stupidly OP.

@Other people who are saying the whole stealth finishers are OP, on my ranger i’d disagree because we have an AoE interrupt which i can snag em with most of the time, which you can’t do with someone that has stability, so as long as stability allows people to finish without removing the stability i think stealth should allow it as well.

So let me sum up the reasons for why a Reveal Elite have been objected thus far.

Thieves and Mesmer’s do not use stealth so there is really no reason to add a reveal mechanic.

Hardly any players that spvp or tpvp play thief or mesmer so there is truelly no reason to add a skill for classes no one even bothers to play.

Nature’s Spirit is such a great widely used elite that no one would ever consider using reveal over it. And for some reason reveal works completely differently than every other elite and you cannot swap it out for your other elites when out of combat. Encase you happened to see a match with no thieves or mesmers, which we all know happens 99% of the time in spvp and tpvp.

Swinging blindly in the air is already a great and effective way to defeat even the most skilled stealther and reveal would just add insult to injury.

Rangers are already the most powerful pvp class in the game which is why you encounter spvp and tpvp games filled with them stomping Thieves and mesmer’s in 1v1 whenever they are encountered.

Adding this Elite would mean that Dev’s suddenly hit the off switch and leave every broken trait and pet ability because this ability would place a finished sign on the class.

All great soundly logical arguments that prefectly encompass the spvp and tpvp scene found in modern GW2 pvp.

Fellknight.4820:

So let me sum up the reasons for why a Reveal Elite have been objected thus far.

Thieves and Mesmer’s do not use stealth so there is really no reason to add a reveal mechanic.

Hardly any players that spvp or tpvp play thief or mesmer so there is truelly no reason to add a skill for classes no one even bothers to play.

Nature’s Spirit is such a great widely used elite that no one would ever consider using reveal over it. And for some reason reveal works completely differently than every other elite and you cannot swap it out for your other elites when out of combat. Encase you happened to see a match with no thieves or mesmers, which we all know happens 99% of the time in spvp and tpvp.

Rangers are already the most powerful pvp class in the game which is why you encounter spvp and tpvp games filled with them stomping Thieves and mesmer’s in 1v1 whenever they are encountered.

Adding this Elite would mean that Dev’s suddenly hit the off switch and leave every broken trait and pet ability because this ability would place a finished sign on the class.

All great soundly logical arguments that prefectly encompass the spvp and tpvp scene found in modern GW2 pvp.

Natures Spirit is nearly OP, so yeah, there’s no way i’m going to relinquish that thing, what? 4 AoE rezzes/condition purges AND 400 something health per second? Clearly a bad elite….

People said eles were underpowered as well, yet i’ve seen single eles completely destroy groups of people, just because a lot of bads play a prof doesn’t mean the prof is broken (granted ranger does need -some- work).

Yes, elites can be switched, but who the kitten would want an elite that is ONLY worthwhile in PvP and is ONLY worthwhile against one prof most of the time, and then 3 others -some- of the time? That’s just a stupid suggestion on its own.

Am i saying “There should be no way to pull people out of stealth ever!”? No, not at all, i’m just saying if they have a way to pull people out of stealth it shouldn’t take up one of our elite slots, and it shouldn’t be for one prof, i mean seriously, how much worse of an idea can that get?

If anything just tie it to our traps, guardian consecrations, and say necro wells or something like that, BOOM instantly better idea, you put those down and you can just say something along the lines of Guardians use their magical area and its justice and radiance and awesome pulls people out of stealth, necros wells quite literally rip the shadows away from the thief, and ranger traps make it impossible for them to stealth because of the whole trappyness of it (you know, it’s not like traps don’t already give away where the thieves are).

Fellknight.4820:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Give it a really long cooldown…or some kind of cool visual effect. Think of a strobe light where instead of just straight up taking everyone out of stealth they blink in and out of stealth for 3 sec

Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but you want to waste an elite slot, for a “reveal” type of skill that

a) has a really long cooldown, by that I guess you mean 4 minutes+ ?

and

b) lasts for a puny 3 seconds?

IF this is what you meant, I’m sorry but who in their right mind would ever take such an unbelievable underpowered elite – ever?

*

Pets being able to stick to stealthed targets would be a nice thing though. Not attacking through stealth, just following the stealthed opponent.

So a reveal to the most op’d mechanic in the game is worthless, when it’s something that every smart player would just about kill for, but Natures Spirit isn’t? LOL and why does reveal suddenly have a 4 minute cooldown when no other elite has a CD that long.

<Scratches head>

Are you serious lol you gotta be trolling

Go back, read again. Thanks.

A “reveal” elite skill would be nice, but if it were to be an elite skill that would be active for 3 seconds with a long cooldown, just like the OP posted, it would be utterly useless, simple as that.

*

“LOL and why does reveal suddenly have a 4 minute cooldown when no other elite has a CD that long.”

To name one: Spirit of Nature, 4 minutes cooldown.

@Durzlla He stealths far away from me at the beginning, not near me. So yeah I could just stand there spamming skill 1 for minutes and minutes, that seems a little rediculous though. And like I said, the sword doesn’t stay rooted to the victim for very long. And it won’t jump to him if I’m immobilized, or hit him if I’m blinded.

If my mouse gets turned a certain way while panning with right click, sometimes the game just acquires a new target for me, or none at all. I still can’t figure out why right-clicking acquires targets for me, that’s what my left-click is for. That’s kind of a non-related issue though.

Torches? Yeah I guess so, I just don’t like them. Not from a utility perspective, I just think it’s weird for anyone to be carrying around a burning stick in combat. Not only that, it gets rid of an evasion and a cripple by not using dagger…both I could really use against other classes. I shouldn’t have to take a certain weapon to counter one class, especially when another one is adaptable to many classes. And not being a condition ranger makes the bonfire damage pretty low.

DragonFlu.7314:

I’m thinking the “guard” skill that plops your pet into a defensive position should also give your pet the ability to detect/remove stealth. That’s where you can get the “sniffed out” flavor for our pets as well as provide some sort of way to handle stealth.

By far the best suggestion in this thread.

Obsidian.1328:

@Durzlla He stealths far away from me at the beginning, not near me. So yeah I could just stand there spamming skill 1 for minutes and minutes, that seems a little rediculous though. And like I said, the sword doesn’t stay rooted to the victim for very long. And it won’t jump to him if I’m immobilized, or hit him if I’m blinded.

If my mouse gets turned a certain way while panning with right click, sometimes the game just acquires a new target for me, or none at all. I still can’t figure out why right-clicking acquires targets for me, that’s what my left-click is for. That’s kind of a non-related issue though.

Torches? Yeah I guess so, I just don’t like them. Not from a utility perspective, I just think it’s weird for anyone to be carrying around a burning stick in combat. Not only that, it gets rid of an evasion and a cripple by not using dagger…both I could really use against other classes. I shouldn’t have to take a certain weapon to counter one class, especially when another one is adaptable to many classes. And not being a condition ranger makes the bonfire damage pretty low.

You clearly aren’t getting the point of the spamming of the 1h sword one… the point is once you hit him, you will fly AWAY from him, not lock -to- him, as in you will INCREASE the gap between you, making it so he can’t open up on you easily, a lot of thieves don’t expect the leap from 1h sword and thus will immob you when it’s already to late and they wont be able to get off their stealth skill (which is where all the damage comes from).

And bonfires damage is MOSTLY from the raw damage from it, making power work very well, i’m not saying you -need- a torch (i use an axe) i just am saying that the torch helps IMMENSELY against thieves.

@Durzlla I’m not sure we are playing the same game, when I use 1h sword I stick to him like glue. Sure the 2nd chain kicks him; but he only moves a foot or two, it’s not really a knockback. And the the 3rd chain closes that small gap. Rinse repeat.

How in the heck are you creating distance with a 1h sword??

Signed,

totally confused Obsi

Obsidian.1328:

@Durzlla I’m not sure we are playing the same game, when I use 1h sword I stick to him like glue. Sure the 2nd chain kicks him; but he only moves a foot or two, it’s not really a knockback. And the the 3rd chain closes that small gap. Rinse repeat.

How in the heck are you creating distance with a 1h sword??

Signed,

totally confused Obsi

Ok, i think i see your problem…

1) Is auto attack on?
2) do you have auto targeting on?
3) is he stealthed or visible when you start spamming your 1?

I have auto attack and auto targeting off making it so if i don’t manually target them i will not home in on them. This means that when he’s stealthed (and thus trying to close in on me for the kill) if i spam one, the second i hit him with the first skill in the chain and hit 1 again i leap forward with the kick, and since you get two shots to land both the 2 and 3 chain skill, i fly forward again, i -normally- clip the thief with the kick (either first or second) allowing me to use the 3rd chain to lunge forward 2 more times completely leaving him in the dust.

Kick sends you forward 400yds, so that’s 800yd minimum, if i knick him with the first kick i go forward an additional 440yds per pounce, that brings me up to 1240yds (further then untraited bow distance) if i knicked him with the SECOND kick then i fly forward a grand total of 1680 yds and there is no way in hell he can catch me from there should i choose to run away from that fight. Most rangers don’t have their auto targeting and auto attack off on the sword so when you kittening fly 800-1680yds away they just don’t know how to react and it completely wastes what ever stealth they had because thieves don’t have a real way to close a 800+ yd gap while stealthed, ESPECIALLY if they’re running dagger dagger, the only thing they can really do is swap to shortbow to shadow step or use that utility skill which either burns their initiative thus making them less of a threat or wasting a utility skill.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Give it a really long cooldown…or some kind of cool visual effect. Think of a strobe light where instead of just straight up taking everyone out of stealth they blink in and out of stealth for 3 sec

Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but you want to waste an elite slot, for a “reveal” type of skill that

a) has a really long cooldown, by that I guess you mean 4 minutes+ ?

and

b) lasts for a puny 3 seconds?

IF this is what you meant, I’m sorry but who in their right mind would ever take such an unbelievable underpowered elite – ever?

*

Pets being able to stick to stealthed targets would be a nice thing though. Not attacking through stealth, just following the stealthed opponent.

Sorry, that’s not correct. The skill, Reveal lasts 20 seconds but reveals every stealth player on the map to you and your nearby allies. By “revealing” it would have the Thief or Mesmer blink rapidly in and out of stealth…not permanently removing their stealth. That way it would still remove targeting, but everyone would know exactly where you are to give us a chance to land a skill shot or other skills when the Thief is going to initiate or escape.