Guild Wars 2

during the 3 days of the revenant i tested the class with different builds in all PvP modes, in 1v1 fights and in actual matches. I am a longterm PvP player from eu with close to 7k PvP matches and i found the idea of the revenant very interesting but sadly the class didn’t turn out as good as i hoped it would. i will review the class in PvP and add my personal comments and suggestions for the devs, and hopefully they will read them

the builds i used had different roles, some more serious and some more trolly:

1. marauder hammer backliner, jalis/mallyx

this one definitely packs the highest single attack damage numbers but is essentially the worst build/weapon for pvp.

this build/weapon is more or less designed to stay at range and freecast on enemy players with auto attacks and skill 2, for a burst you dive in with skill 3 and on impact you switch legend for the explosion above 50% energy.
this works okayish if the enemy team lets you freecast. the damage is mediocre and the weapon is slow and clunky.

as soon as the enemy starts to come at you, be it thief or whatever comes your way, it’s over. you don’t have any survivability nor disengages. hammer 5 is way too slow and the animation way too big to serve as a disengage and even then you have no gap closers or swiftness if you don’t land your hammer 5 into your lightning field first which will definitely take too long for a disengage. kiting is practically nonexistent here, something that is essential on everything that is ranged.

2. Celestial mace/axe frontline jalis/mallyx

on paper this build is very strong. on tests against golems i managed to stack 22-25 might stacks with double blasts and battle sigil.

the damage, although i had that many might stacks, was also just mediocre, the poison (usually 3 stacks) was ticking for 150-200, the torment for 350 (5 stacks) without moving, and the burn (2 stacks) for 650. the auto attack crits on it were around 500-1k depending on the skill and mace #3 was hitting for about 1.5k crits.

now you might think that’s not too bad right? the problem is that actual enemies don’t stand still, interrupt you or just don’t stand in your fire field.

the build can be kited very easily and will deal clost to no damage anymore. even if you taunt them it does not make things better especially because the taunt costs 50% energy which is way too much.

the survivability, thanks to vit/heal/toughness components of the celestial amulet, was a bit better but still subpar. celestial builds usually bring loads of sustain, shoutbow ele and engi are very hard to take down but that’s not the case for revenant.

the only time this build is good is when you have a condition opponent whose condis you can copy and if he doesn’t bring any condi cleanse.

again, a very slow build with no disengages and a weakness to cc which is very bad.

3. cleric staff ventari/jalis support

with monk runes and some ventari traits you can get close to 50% outgoing healing which is nice and allowes you to heal allies for 3k+ at the cost of 25% energy.

the problem here is that you yourself are not tanky at all and if they focus you it’s over in an instant. you can maybe stay alive in a 1v1 but of more than 1 players focus you it won’t end well for you.

the main problem for this is, you are constantly using your energy for allies to support them so most of the time you won’t be sitting at 100%. if the enemy lands a big burst on you you can heal yourself for maybe 4-5k at best and then your energy is depleted leaving you with nothing. you lack a real heal like for example shelter from guardian which is awesome to negate damage and heal yourself. if you get cced you don’t have a stunbreak in ventari so you need to switch to jalis, a stance that won’t support allies really that much. what you do in this stance is more or less heal you with your healing skill, kite a bit if possible and block stuff for 2s.

if you’re not dead by then you try to get back into ventari to repeat the whole process. usually you are dead though because your only defensive skill is a 2s block on 10s cooldown, no cc appart from the tablet explosion which even has a casting time so you can’t even move it to you while it explodes.

4. Sentinel decap revenant ventari/mallyx staff

more of a troll build but it doesn’t work that well because even in sentinel you are rather squishy still without much active defense. the decapping is also just mehish and doesn’t work as well as on engi because a perfect staff #5 is not that easy to land and unyielding anguish is pretty inconsistent in where it teleports the enemy.

5. Marauder Staff jalis/mallyx

this build is the build i had the most success with during the 3 days of testing. now don’t misunderstand me, it’s still very weak but at least it has potential.

i used the marauder amulet with staff and pack runes, energy hydromancy sigil on the weapon.

Retribution 2-3-2
Corruption 1-2-2
Invocation 3-1-1

this build actually lets me deal burst damage with staff 5 and weaponswap. i can more or less oneshot the light armor golem every 20 seconds. after the burst there is almost no damage except from the auto attack that crits for 1k and is dangerous because as mentioned many times, revenant is very squishy.

what i noticed is that the healing skills are very weak when playing this. they don’t heal enough / are on a too long cooldown and it’s very hard to refill your health during a fight.

now that i covered all my builds i would like to go over the legends and the weaponskills

Jalis:

Soothing Stone (heal): generally this heal isn’t bad by design but it does not heal for enough, the cooldown is too long. for consistency: give this heal a flat 4 to 5 seconds of retal no matter how many conditions it removed. the healing needs to be increased to around 6.5k and the cooldown lowered to 20-25s.

Inspiring Reinforcement (stability): good for stomps and cc heavy fights at the cost of a limited area for you and the team. the problem with this skill: it takes like a second until it actually starts pulsing stability (after the animation ended). what i suggest is that stab starts pulsing after you casted it, not when the “road animation” ended.

Forced Engagement (taunt): by far my least favourite skill on jalis. it’s slow, clunky and costs way too much. what i suggest: energy cost down to 25-30, casting time to 1/2, speed of the chain needs to be increased, i mean come on, it’s a 1s cast and then after 1s the chain leashes out finally?

Vengeful Hammers (flying hammers): not a bad skill, it kind of “marks your presence” and is intimidating. the problem is the casting time. make it instant or 1/4s.

Rite of the Great Dwarf (elite): costs too much, too long of a casting time for only 5s. either you decrease the activation to 1.5s max, or increase the duration to 10s. energy cost from 50 to 35, revenant is in need of stunbreaks anyway.

Mallyx

the problem with mallyx is that it’s actually only strong if you face an opponent that applies many conditions. against everything else it’s mediocre at most and you cripple yourself more by using your utilities.

Empoering Mysery (heal): my least favourite heal by far. the skill is too inconsistent and like a worse version of consume conditions. what i suggest: increase the healing of it to around 6.5k, the casting time down to 1s and the cooldown to 25s. instead of healing more for every condition on you, make it apply resistance for 2s for every condition on you.

Banish Enchantment (boonrip): a good skill if you want to rip stability or annoy boon heavy classes. energy cost is fine.

Pain Absortion (condi transfer to yourself): also fine imo, maybe the casting time could get toned down to 3/4 and the energy cost to 30 (from 35).

Unyielding Anguish (displacement): a good idea but – imo – very inconsistent in the way it works… what i would suggest is that the field teleports the target back out in the same direction where the target entered the field.

Embrace the Darkness (elite): too long casting time. needs to be 1/2s so that you can react to condi burst as fast as possible.

Ventari

the tablet needs to auto summon when you attune to ventari and only needs to be resummoned with Project Tranquility when you made it explode before.

another problem with ventari is that it’s just pure heal, except for regen from trait there are no boons at all. the reason why bunker guard is good is because he is a mix between heals and boons (and because he is actually tanky).

Ventari’s Will (tablet move) needs to be instacast without the casting time. it’s too disruptime for your own gameplay.

Natural Harmony (heal) this skill is fine imo

Protective Solance (bubble) the upkeep cost needs to be adjusted from -8/s to -7/s because it is very crippling to support + keeping this up. something that also needs to change is the cooldown after disabling the the skill, it has a 5 seconds cooldown which should be removed to allow upkeep flashing, the upkeep already has a 1s cooldown so i see no reason in having the 5s afterwards.

Purifying Essence (condi remove): energy cost too high, would tone it down from 35 to 25 and make it instacast without the 3/4s casting time.

Energy Expulsion (tablet explosion): remove the casting time but leave the 2s explosion delay. this skill should synergize better with moving the tablet so that you can move an exploding tablet into enemies. i suggest removing casting times on ventari in general so that you can multimanage tablet + staff skills, this will result in a very high skill ceiling.

now for the weapons

generally i would either remove all energy costs from weapons because i don’t like that you have to decide to either use a utility or a weapon skill because of energy management or leave the cost but remove the cooldown of the skills, having both energy cost and cooldown is unnecessary.

Staff

Auto Attack: i like the AA of staff a lot, great animation and visuals. the damage needs to be higher though, a lot.

#2: my least favourite skill on staff by far, i avoid using this as much as i can. low damage for the casting time, waste of energy, hard to use, 2nd skill another long casting time and only 3s weakness.
what i suggest: make this skill a 1x block (like ranger gs 4) and if you block an attack you smack the enemy to cause weakness.

#3: best revenant skill. cooldown reduction to 8s :P?

#4: needs to be castable while moving and with a lower casting time, 3/4s i’d say.

#5: good skill, can be hard to use sometimes. why not add some evade frames? would fit the mist animation.

Hammer

my least favourite weapon, too slow and too clunky, no kiting potential for a ranged weapon.

Auto: needs to have a 3/4s casting time. i know it’s a 100% finisher but still.

#2: needs increased damage. to add kiting potential: adds a pushback (not a knockback) the closer the enemy is to you so that it’s also worth using this skill at close range and to gain some space between them and you. pushback is not a cc but just a displacement, you push them away from you, the closer they are the more they get pushed back. i wonder if that’s possible with the current engine.

#3: i like this skill, could be a bit faster, 1s instead of 1.25 making it evade or invulnerable while using it would certainly help as you eat all the damage when you pass through stuff :/

#4: the skill is fine, as usual, to make the weapon not so clunky, casting time to 3/4

#5: casting time is way too long, you can just walk out of it, the animation is also big enough that a 1s or 1.25s casting are justified, i mean pin down on warrior is less visible and with 3/4s casting time and is 100% dodgeable. i understand that this is an aoe but 1.75s is way too long.

Mace

mace in general is fine but needs some tweaking and QoL improvements.

Auto: needs more direct damage, around 30% increase.

#2: this one is difficult.. either make it wider, it’s too narrow or increase the burning duration so that it’s actually punishing to stand in it. increase the burning to 5s instead of 2s. casting time 1.25s? this needs to be 0.5s and not 1.25s.

#3 very inconsistent skill. to hit a double blast it is required to turn up the camera, possible with all leaps, to shorten the leap but with this skill it happens way too often that the character just leaps in a random direction. also needs 30% damage increase.

Axe

the concept of the axe is very cool. imo this is a hybrid weapon, usable by both condition and dd but the damage numbers need tweaking and the axe is in need of QoL.

#4 idk if i’m doing something wrong but when i throw this skill at a target i never get the final damage hit but only the pass through damage. the pass through damage needs to be higher so that it’s actually worth throwing through as many enemies as possible. what also needs to happen is, make it a “noscope” skill. i wanna use this without having to click on a target, like so many other skills in the game
casting time from 0.5s to 0.25s

#5 nice skill and awesome animation, higher damage please i’d say around 50% more direct damage.

reserved for (maybe) trait reviews

reserved for (maybe) trait reviews

reserved for (maybe) trait reviews

General Problems Brainstorm and what Revenant needs

the revenant is just way too squishy, especially for a heavy armor class.

the revenant needs more stunbreaks, more customisation with utility skills, there are skills that i don’t want but i’m still forced to take them, why?

more skills per legend, stop basing the legend’s theme around direct damage, condi or support but gameplay: 3/4 of the mallyx skills are useless for a berserk revenant but if you want unyielding anguish you still have to take all the skills that are not optimal for your wanted playstyle.

weaponswap, only 1 weaponset is way too limiting, especially as we are already limited to our utility skills, heals and elites.

legend swap should be instant all the time.

moblity – mobility is king in pvp

overall damage way too low compared to existing classes, be it condi or direct damage.

vigour on crit please

cooldown reduction on legend swap, from traits (15%?).

selfsustain

active defense, more blocks,more blinds, built in evades etc.

this needs to stay on page 1. updated some stuff from playing a bit more today.

This was very similar to my experiences in pvp. i agree with everything you’ve stated.

I do think staff #2 would be interesting as a charge/evade with similar distance to ele d/d fire skill #2, but without the field. It could applie weakness and if it interrupts a skill you get a very fast and high direct damage chain skill available (more damage than Maul as it requires more skill to land).

This would give a bit more mobility, a real non clunky, burst damage skill that requires skill, and some survivability with evade and weakness on the first part.

Staff skill four should also be a blast finisher.

Revenant needs a redesign. I don’t like the current design because I feel very restricted in it.

I like the utility swap, but I want the ability to customize utility skills in it.

Excellent, thorough review there Jekkt. Thank you for taking all that time to write everything down. Hopefully developers will take note and make some solid changes.

Staff damage need greatly increased. AA need 550 damage per hit.
Chain 3 need self protection for 3 seconds.

Skill 2 need increased damage, and provide protection or another self heal if energy cost and cast time stay the same.

Skill 4 need to be allowed to move while casting, and provide some kind of added damage reduction and AoE damage element to it. Heal from this skill alone is very weak in SPvP, and it still has long cast and after delay.

Dwarf
Ven Hammers are weak. They need to slow enemies hit. or greatly reduce the energy cost. pretty much useless in SPvP due to the energy cost compared to the more useful skills.

Inspired Renforcement need to start pulsing right away, and have its damage increased while also providing self protection.

Forced Engagement need longer duration and made into AoE effect instead of single target while increasing damage reduction.

Rite of the Great Dwarf need to be removed or make immune to damage while casting. Better yet. make it heal the Revenant 50% of damage taken while casting like Defiance Stance or something. Because Revenants need better damage reduction.

Soothing Stone need to heal more, or simply add a damage reduction element after the heal. Perhaps a small Defiance Stance effect at the end instead of pure damage reduction.

Demon Legend need its skill cost reduced greatly.

Banish need a cut in energy cost.

Pain Absorb need to add self regen. or get rid of self blind on this.

Embrace the Darkness need to provide a stack of Stability along with the damage increase and health increase temporary.

Centaur Legend needs a few changes.

Skill 6 Project Tranquility should self heal on spawn. I dont mind having to spawn it if only it self heal on every spawn. This to counter burst damage from SPvP.

Purifying Essence need to be instant and cost reduced unless staff is getting energy cut.

Changing legends should provide a Boon of Defense. Some kind of damage reduction or temporary avoidance to go along with the trait-ed damage reduction. Unless thats not currently working.

IMO, part of the problem with Rite of the Great Dwarf is not necessarily the casting time but the reward for using it. Damage reduction is fine, but especially in WvW / PvP, damage reduction alone is not enough to keep you alive. I think if the cast time is going to be long and the effect duration short (5 sec), it should really be rewarding – e.g. 50% damage reduction plus 50% reduced incoming condition duration and a few stacks of stability.

fluidmonolith.3584:

IMO, part of the problem with Rite of the Great Dwarf is not necessarily the casting time but the reward for using it. Damage reduction is fine, but especially in WvW / PvP, damage reduction alone is not enough to keep you alive. I think if the cast time is going to be long and the effect duration short (5 sec), it should really be rewarding – e.g. 50% damage reduction plus 50% reduced incoming condition duration and a few stacks of stability.

atm it’s just not an elite, it’s your.. way too pricey stunbreak generally invul skills are instacast but also have a cooldown.

one of the problems with this skill is that it’s aoe, not only for yourself. this results in a weaker effect for yourself because it needs to be balanced for more players than just you. lore wise it also makes sense, jalis turned all of the dwarfs into stone, not only himself.

the question is, what’s more important, lore or balance.

if this skill became an invul what needs to happen is:

instacast
cooldown
reduced energy cost
remove stunbreak and add it to a different skill (the stability one because it would make sense).

what needs to happen if it does not become an invul and stays the way it is:

first of all a better tooltip.. how much is the damage reduction?
shorter casting time or longer effect
reduced energy cost

I’ve try it only in few matches, but I like it.
We had try only 50% of the class and we’ll be more happy if ANet give us the chance to try the dps version of the revenant with Sword/X (will it be the best dps weapon?) and the “berserker” legend. But I liked what I see of the revenant.

The only thing… I expected something really OP to tuned Down, not a low damage / low sustain / low usefull class to be tuned Up.
I’m shure that ANed don’t want to make a class so OP that evryone will use only it, but ehy, we’re taling about the New Cass! I don’t want to play a “underpowered” class that I don’t know against classes that everyone know from 3 years of play and have all the best builds of the situation.

But I’m shure that at the release of HoT revenant will be very good, viable and powerfull.
I’m curious about that new mechanics of class and play. There’s a lot of good visual and strategi skills that I want to use.
ANet need only to make it really viable and Revenant will be one of my favorite classes in HoT.

P.s. We’re the first MMORPG comunity that is asking to Power Up a New Class. That make me smile :-)

it’s not 50% of the class it’s actually 3/4. Shiro is the last legend of the base revenant, glinth will be the elite specialisation as it seems.

adding shiro and a sword won’t magically turn up the damage by 50% unless that’s what the first minor trait does.

other classes have multiple viable dps weapons and you can’t tell me that revenant only getting sword for dps makes sense.

the right way to design a new class is to make it strong and tone down, that’s usually a lot more easy than trying to buff a weak class. the issue here is not even numbers but the whole picture. while everything might be a nice idea and something new it didn’t turn out that great.

i was pretty hyped for the revenant when i read the blogs but after the verdant brink and especially now after the first beta test i am very disappointed with it and i just realized how far from completion this is.

i do really hope the devs take the necessary time to polish the revenant or even to overhaul the revenant if neccessary. i don’t mind if they release the expansion without the new class if it takes them longer, if only they make it strong enough and viable.

Jekkt.6045:

fluidmonolith.3584:

IMO, part of the problem with Rite of the Great Dwarf is not necessarily the casting time but the reward for using it. Damage reduction is fine, but especially in WvW / PvP, damage reduction alone is not enough to keep you alive. I think if the cast time is going to be long and the effect duration short (5 sec), it should really be rewarding – e.g. 50% damage reduction plus 50% reduced incoming condition duration and a few stacks of stability.

atm it’s just not an elite, it’s your.. way too pricey stunbreak generally invul skills are instacast but also have a cooldown.

one of the problems with this skill is that it’s aoe, not only for yourself. this results in a weaker effect for yourself because it needs to be balanced for more players than just you. lore wise it also makes sense, jalis turned all of the dwarfs into stone, not only himself.

the question is, what’s more important, lore or balance.

if this skill became an invul what needs to happen is:

instacast
cooldown
reduced energy cost
remove stunbreak and add it to a different skill (the stability one because it would make sense).

what needs to happen if it does not become an invul and stays the way it is:

first of all a better tooltip.. how much is the damage reduction?
shorter casting time or longer effect
reduced energy cost

I do like the theme that Rev utility skills are not balanced by cooldowns, and making it an instant stunbreak with cooldown would make the skill similar to other profession skills. Of course, I also understand that balance is important, and if the skill isn’t useful it doesn’t matter how unique it is.

What if, rather than a cooldown, it had a really high energy cost – e.g 75-100?
You make a good point that the cast time is probably too long for it to be useful regardless of the energy cost. Is it reasonable to have one effect for yourself and another effect for other allies? E.g. “Gain invulnerability for 1-2 seconds. Nearby allies (including yourself) gain the Rite of the Great Dwarf effect (50% damage reduction) for 5 seconds.” It can still have a cast time and stun break, it would just need to provide you with stability to cover the cast like all other non-instant stunbreaks do. This would reward you for keeping a high energy reserve while in Jalis, but it would the make the skill less useful as an emergency button.

This review is absolutely fantastic. I agree with every point here.

fluidmonolith.3584:

Jekkt.6045:

fluidmonolith.3584:

IMO, part of the problem with Rite of the Great Dwarf is not necessarily the casting time but the reward for using it. Damage reduction is fine, but especially in WvW / PvP, damage reduction alone is not enough to keep you alive. I think if the cast time is going to be long and the effect duration short (5 sec), it should really be rewarding – e.g. 50% damage reduction plus 50% reduced incoming condition duration and a few stacks of stability.

atm it’s just not an elite, it’s your.. way too pricey stunbreak generally invul skills are instacast but also have a cooldown.

one of the problems with this skill is that it’s aoe, not only for yourself. this results in a weaker effect for yourself because it needs to be balanced for more players than just you. lore wise it also makes sense, jalis turned all of the dwarfs into stone, not only himself.

the question is, what’s more important, lore or balance.

if this skill became an invul what needs to happen is:

instacast
cooldown
reduced energy cost
remove stunbreak and add it to a different skill (the stability one because it would make sense).

what needs to happen if it does not become an invul and stays the way it is:

first of all a better tooltip.. how much is the damage reduction?
shorter casting time or longer effect
reduced energy cost

I do like the theme that Rev utility skills are not balanced by cooldowns, and making it an instant stunbreak with cooldown would make the skill similar to other profession skills. Of course, I also understand that balance is important, and if the skill isn’t useful it doesn’t matter how unique it is.

What if, rather than a cooldown, it had a really high energy cost – e.g 75-100?
You make a good point that the cast time is probably too long for it to be useful regardless of the energy cost. Is it reasonable to have one effect for yourself and another effect for other allies? E.g. “Gain invulnerability for 1-2 seconds. Nearby allies (including yourself) gain the Rite of the Great Dwarf effect (50% damage reduction) for 5 seconds.” It can still have a cast time and stun break, it would just need to provide you with stability to cover the cast like all other non-instant stunbreaks do. This would reward you for keeping a high energy reserve while in Jalis, but it would the make the skill less useful as an emergency button.

with real high cost, it would never be used in SPvP.

Remember weapon skills cost Energy as well. so to be at 100% you are a sitting duck with no real damage reduction.

Knighthonor.4061:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Jekkt.6045:

fluidmonolith.3584:

IMO, part of the problem with Rite of the Great Dwarf is not necessarily the casting time but the reward for using it. Damage reduction is fine, but especially in WvW / PvP, damage reduction alone is not enough to keep you alive. I think if the cast time is going to be long and the effect duration short (5 sec), it should really be rewarding – e.g. 50% damage reduction plus 50% reduced incoming condition duration and a few stacks of stability.

atm it’s just not an elite, it’s your.. way too pricey stunbreak generally invul skills are instacast but also have a cooldown.

one of the problems with this skill is that it’s aoe, not only for yourself. this results in a weaker effect for yourself because it needs to be balanced for more players than just you. lore wise it also makes sense, jalis turned all of the dwarfs into stone, not only himself.

the question is, what’s more important, lore or balance.

if this skill became an invul what needs to happen is:

instacast
cooldown
reduced energy cost
remove stunbreak and add it to a different skill (the stability one because it would make sense).

what needs to happen if it does not become an invul and stays the way it is:

first of all a better tooltip.. how much is the damage reduction?
shorter casting time or longer effect
reduced energy cost

I do like the theme that Rev utility skills are not balanced by cooldowns, and making it an instant stunbreak with cooldown would make the skill similar to other profession skills. Of course, I also understand that balance is important, and if the skill isn’t useful it doesn’t matter how unique it is.

What if, rather than a cooldown, it had a really high energy cost – e.g 75-100?
You make a good point that the cast time is probably too long for it to be useful regardless of the energy cost. Is it reasonable to have one effect for yourself and another effect for other allies? E.g. “Gain invulnerability for 1-2 seconds. Nearby allies (including yourself) gain the Rite of the Great Dwarf effect (50% damage reduction) for 5 seconds.” It can still have a cast time and stun break, it would just need to provide you with stability to cover the cast like all other non-instant stunbreaks do. This would reward you for keeping a high energy reserve while in Jalis, but it would the make the skill less useful as an emergency button.

with real high cost, it would never be used in SPvP.

Remember weapon skills cost Energy as well. so to be at 100% you are a sitting duck with no real damage reduction.

Fair enough. I would like to see some very potent, high energy skills, but a stunbreak should probably not be one of them.

for Pvp. What do you think of the Idea of Project Tranquility Radius increase from 340 radius to 10,000. Sort of like a long range healer, or a “back line bunker”. A Reverant sitting on home point would heal allies at mid (340 ever 3 seconds). This would force the enemy team to break mid and rush home if the lacked dps . It Might add another dynamic to pvp.

the rest of the radius on other ventari tablets would stay close range (340 radius)

(con) people hiding tablets in random locations, though the tether migrates this a little bit)

I would Also like to See a “Push” trait added to Ventaris will. with protactive solace active, so say every 10s while moving the tablet it will push enemys (cap control)

Highlie.7641:

for Pvp. What do you think of the Idea of Project Tranquility Radius increase from 340 radius to 10,000. Sort of like a long range healer, or a “back line bunker”. A Reverant sitting on home point would heal allies at mid (340 ever 3 seconds). This would force the enemy team to break mid and rush home if the lacked dps . It Might add another dynamic to pvp.

the rest of the radius on other ventari tablets would stay close range (340 radius)

(con) people hiding tablets in random locations, though the tether migrates this a little bit)

I would Also like to See a “Push” trait added to Ventaris will. with protactive solace active, so say every 10s while moving the tablet it will push enemys (cap control)

won’t work, how do you wanna manage a tablet 10000 units away from you lol. i’d say the max reasonable range is 2000, more than that and it will get close to impossible to move it around at such a range.

Not on the movement skill, on project tranquility….

Ventari’s tablet into the world. The tablet will heal allies near it every few seconds.
(The tablet will disappear if you move outside the tether distance).

Your thinking of.
Ventari’s Will Will the tablet toward the target location. As the tablet moves, it will heal allies it passes through.

Even so, it has a target cap of 5, so it might work in SPvP, but anywhere else the extra range would be useless dilute the effect tremendously when there are dozens (or more) allies within 10k radius.

Another interesting view of the elite that might offer some counter play is have Right of the Great Dwarf have a 1-3’s channel making the revenant invulnerable and unable to attack, but, give him a break bar. If the condition is met the revenant gains 50% dmg reduction and his allies gain 25% dmg reduction for 5’s with something of a 50 energy cost. In the event that the revenants break bar is broken it cancels the skill and puts it on a 10s cd.

I feel that is a rewarding elite with maybe a few tweaks that offer good game play and counter play. Some problems I can see with having this elite is the possibility in 1v1 situations being spammable as well as it effectively being guardians Renewed Justice. Another possible out come is remove the invulnerability, keep the break bar and just give the revenant the 50% dmg reduction from the start of the channel. Also tweaking the energy to a slightly higher cost such as 65 so that you cannot just switch to Jalis and instantly have access to your elite.

It might a have a few holes in it, but I think that something along these lines could work. Thoughts?

EDIT: grammer, extra thoughts

problem with your suggestion is: spamable invul is not a problem, 50% energy is 2x with 100% or 3x if you wait a bit longer so as long as it prevents point capture it’s more or less okay. on the other hand nobody will try to break your bar for something like an aoe protection for 5s.

Great review!! I felt the same while playing with the revenant.

Good feedback Jekkt, and very similar to my own findings and feelings. Looks like our suggested fixes are very similar too.

I hope Anet reads all our feedback and looks at how to improve the revenant, because right now it is extremely poor in PvP. I know we are all new to the profession right now, but many of us know how to play the game, we know how the combat system works, we know how to analyze our build options and after a few days, many of us should be able to create a half decent build with what we had. But the fact is, the revenant struggles to be anywhere near as good as the other profs, in terms of damage and survivability at least.

I think the problem is down to the following three issues:

1) A lot of the cast times are way too long.
2) Damage and healing is not scaling very well on some skills.
3) The revenant needs more reliable (instant and on demand) stunbreakers and more reliable defense options (blinds, evades, blocks, etc).

I think the profession has the potential to be a lot better, and I am sure the other legends will add to the profession, but the options we have at the moment need improving, and it seems most players agree. I look forward to hearing Anet’s review of our feedback and seeing what they do with it.

When i read the original description I always figured Rev was going to pull utility skills from various legends, maybe signature monster moves they had in gw1 ect.

Ideally the elite skill was going to be a Dervish Form-like move that lets you become the actual legend but work more like an engineer kits fused with gw1 enchantments.

What I feel we actually have is a thematic class that barely delivers on quite a few ends. I know its beta and not complete but for a marketing sake Rev should prolly have been OP vs UP when show casing it for sales purposes.

I also find it so very odd that each legend has “Skill Types” but the only trait-line that provides any bonus at all to actual legend skills is Corruption giving resistance on skill use.

All in all this class really gives off the impression it was built on the old trait system so heavily and it can no longer stand up to the new Specs core classes are rocking. (Lack of condi boon duration ect)

Stinja.9612:

When i read the original description I always figured Rev was going to pull utility skills from various legends, maybe signature monster moves they had in gw1 ect.

Ideally the elite skill was going to be a Dervish Form-like move that lets you become the actual legend but work more like an engineer kits fused with gw1 enchantments.

What I feel we actually have is a thematic class that barely delivers on quite a few ends. I know its beta and not complete but for a marketing sake Rev should prolly have been OP vs UP when show casing it for sales purposes.

I also find it so very odd that each legend has “Skill Types” but the only trait-line that provides any bonus at all to actual legend skills is Corruption giving resistance on skill use.

All in all this class really gives off the impression it was built on the old trait system so heavily and it can no longer stand up to the new Specs core classes are rocking. (Lack of condi boon duration ect)

exactly, especially as a gw1 dervish main the revenant announcement was very exciting for me but the class turned out different than i expected.

Awesome thread, OP. One of the best so far. I seriously hope devs listen to all you said.

I’m appointing you as my voice here. I agree with almost everything and I’m happy you said that weaponskills should not have energy cost at all.

Thanks for your hard work. This should be sticky and get visibility.

This guy also did try a tank build in pvp https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/PvP-tank-Revenant/first
Both of you say similar things, that the Revenant is fragile and once they target you it’s over.

Excellent writeup and overview. Keep this up top and visible. I’ve been playing your Marauder Staff Mallyx/Jalis build in WvW today and it does surprisingly well with some support around you. You aren’t incredibly “bursty”, but you can at least deal a little damage. I split the gear between Valkyrie and Assassin with Traveler runes. You still melt like butter on a tin roof, but at least you can do 6-8k damage before you go.

Hopefully the devs read some of this and take it to heart, a lot of these proposed changes would go a long way toward helping the Revenant class.

Staff and hammer just wouldn’t kill those NPCs – in the end I ran celestial mace/ax jalis/mallyx and started to be able to win matches, even if the kills were pretty few outside trebuchet ones. Not that mallyx helped much more than giving an extra self-heal, sometimes I stayed on Jalis for long despite needing to heal just because its skills are so much more useful. With the exception of Forced Engagement, I don’t think I used that skill once, just not worth the energy and cast time. I tried switching Mallyx for Ventari – it helped for healing the lord and champions during lulls in the fighting, but you die fast if you’re on Ventari and getting attacked.

Eye for an Eye was really helpful – I remember a match without it where a condi ranger ambush-killed me in like 3 seconds because of getting CCd twice.

Jephiroth.3197:

Excellent writeup and overview. Keep this up top and visible. I’ve been playing your Marauder Staff Mallyx/Jalis build in WvW today and it does surprisingly well with some support around you. You aren’t incredibly “bursty”, but you can at least deal a little damage. I split the gear between Valkyrie and Assassin with Traveler runes. You still melt like butter on a tin roof, but at least you can do 6-8k damage before you go.

Hopefully the devs read some of this and take it to heart, a lot of these proposed changes would go a long way toward helping the Revenant class.

thanks for the flowers and i’m happy you enjoy my build^^

i really hope a dev will read my review and maybe find some of my suggestions useful :P

Excellent review, really well written!

I’d like to add that i like how they put a combo field on Inspiring Reinforcement so that you could use mace blast on that for swiftness. But the blast is a bit unreliable like you said, really hard to get the 2 blasts onto this same field.

And while i agree a faster cast time on Embrace the Darkness would be nice. It might bring problems to the trait that does an aoe daze for 2 seconds when you use elites.
I already tried spamming Embrace the Darkness with the daze trait and burn for 3 sec.
And i can see this becoming really annoying if the skill is faster :P (guess the trait proc should get a cd then)

oh well^^ i think 0.5s won’t break it but if it’s necessary they can just put a 3s icd on it. the stun happens when you toggle the upkeep anyway so maybe it would still be ok with 0.5.

+1, agree

Thanks for the detailed review.

Ey heres my point of view when I tested it, I have a kind of similar state on the theorycraft..
(sorry for my english)

Jekkt.6045:

+1. Marauder Hammer backliner, jalis/mallyx

This one definitely packs the highest single attack damage numbers but is essentially the worst build/weapon for pvp.
This build/weapon is more or less designed to stay at range and freecast on enemy players with auto attacks and skill 2, for a burst you dive in with skill 3 and on impact you switch legend for the explosion above 50% energy.
This works okayish if the enemy team lets you freecast.
The damage is mediocre and the weapon is slow and clunky.

• I have the same results has you do for your test on Marauder Hammer, Dwarf/Malyx.
  Except i went for Hydromancy Sigil on weap swap for another proc after the leap.
  Positionnment is everything and even tho if you free cast your pressure is not that big cause of it been so slow/predictable.

Jekkt.6045:

As soon as the enemy starts to come at you, be it thief or whatever comes your way, it’s over. you don’t have any survivability nor disengages. hammer 5 is way too slow and the animation way too big to serve as a disengage and even then you have no gap closers or swiftness if you don’t land your hammer 5 into your lightning field first which will definitely take too long for a disengage.
Kiting is practically nonexistent here, something that is essential on everything that is ranged.

• In 1v1’s
  Thief: I actually had no hard time, if you use malix properly and in a way that you force him to play on Range (SB), adding the right cc at the right time and using your Malix leap when he used Shadow Refuge etc.
  D/D Ele, Remove his boon+ chill em at right time and have a good positionnement.
  Warrior/Necro 80% in their favor
  Mesmer/Guard was impossible for me to kill
  Engi were 50/50 didnt fought many of them tho

Jekkt.6045:

Cleric staff Ventari/Jalis support

With monk runes and some ventari traits you can get close to 50% outgoing healing which is nice and allowes you to heal allies for 3k+ at the cost of 25% energy.
the problem here is that you yourself are not tanky at all and if they focus you it’s over in an instant. you can maybe stay alive in a 1v1 but of more than 1 players focus you it won’t end well for you.

The main problem for this is, you are constantly using your energy for allies to support them so most of the time you won’t be sitting at 100%. if the enemy lands a big burst on you you can heal yourself for maybe 4-5k at best and then your energy is depleted leaving you with nothing. you lack a real heal like for example shelter from guardian which is awesome to negate damage and heal yourself. if you get cced you don’t have a stunbreak in ventari so you need to switch to jalis, a stance that won’t support allies really that much.
What you do in this stance is more or less heal you with your healing skill, kite a bit if possible and block stuff for 2s.

If you’re not dead by then you try to get back into ventari to repeat the whole process. usually you are dead though because your only defensive skill is a 2s block on 10s cooldown, no cc appart from the tablet explosion which even has a casting time so you can’t even move it to you while it explodes.

• Pretty much what I have in final, felt like good support but no self substaiN.

Jekkt.6045:

Marauder Staff Jalis/Mallyx+

This build is the build i had the most success with during the 3 days of testing. now don’t misunderstand me, it’s still very weak but at least it has potential.
I used the marauder amulet with staff and pack runes, energy hydromancy sigil on the weapon.

Retribution 2-3-2
Corruption 1-2-2
Invocation 3-1-1

This build actually lets me deal burst damage with staff 5 and weaponswap. i can more or less oneshot the light armor golem every 20 seconds.
After the burst there is almost no damage except from the auto attack that crits for 1k and is dangerous because as mentioned many times, revenant is very squishy.

• I felt the same about Staff, higher burst compared to hammer ( w/the legend swap for procs etc).
  But overall i was more confortable playing it with the hammer compared to the Staff on the Rauder version, but i guess that just my preference and playstyle.

Glad this is still a Beta Test on the class because theres alot of things that need to be adjust like Casttime of a majority of skill, Exploit on resistance, etc..

the reason i didnt go for hydro on hammer was because somehow, maybe because of a bug, it didnt proc for me on skill+swap.

so first, thanks for weapon swap, this will make everything a bit better for now but things i’ve seen on today’s stream that still concern me are:

while sword/sword looks all flashy the highest damage number on it was around 1500 crit on marauder amulet. it’s fast and all but other’s classes attacks are not only fast but also hit hard (thief and necro daggers for example)

basically auto attack hits for around 1500 finishers
skill 2 for the same
skill 3 for around 7×700
skill 4 and 5 also for around 1000-1500
the utility skills for 1500-2000

- the auto attack looks good, especially with the minor traits and vuln

- skill 2 looks useful for chase, need to test it though

- not sure about skill 3… interesting when people try to focus you and you just swirl around them but i don’t see this skill fit taking down a target in a bigger fight

- blocks are always good, i wonder if this skill gets the toggle anyway like ranger gs4 block? would be very nice

- skill 5 has good potential for relays and peeling

now i don’t know if that’s gonna be enough but we’ll see in the next beta.

concerns about the heal: first, cooldown too long. 2nd as a berserk you don’t want a heal over time but a fast burst heal so please consider adding multiple heal skills for the different legends including 4 utilities instead of just 3 and a 2nd elite for all legends so that we can customize.

upkeep skills, as mentioned before, make them instacast with a 1s gcd to prevent insta flashing.

remove energy cost from weaponskills, especially now with weaponswap even if you have to increase cooldowns a bit or you will be sitting on auto attacks most of the time.

will go over traits as soon as i have the notes

traits:

minors are fine imo, good synergy damage increase is always nice and siphon helps too

adept:

- 150 ferocity for allies. good for pve i guess. if it will be used in pvp depends on how good the other adepts compre to it.

- 2% attack speed per hit for 5s, max 10%. why not change this to +5% per sword worn?

- when blocked 2 next attacks will be unblockable. the problem with this is that revenant doesn’t have a hard hitting single skill but multiple smaller ones. this goes well with warrior stuff like evis or killshot but for revenant idk…

master:

- jade winds when downed. good when people try to res you.

- might for assassin skills. might stacking, why not. remove energy cost from weapons

- ferocity for 2x sword, would go well with my suggestion for the attack speed per sword worn.

grand master:

- 20% more damage below 50% enemy health. okay, similar to executioner bolt to the heart and close to death.

- cc removes 2 stacks instead of 1 stack of stability. tbh i don’t think this one’s good. usually when somebody has 1 stack of stab it’s for a short duration (revenant dodge for example) so you will just wait those few seconds. right now this is not worth being a gm trait. make it like this: cc removes half of the stacks of stability, this will make it interesting but even then not a first pick because people don’t spam cc on stability to remove it.

- life leech when flanking, looks very interesting. depending on how squishy shiro will be my first pick.

still no vigour?