Condi rev reminder arenanet
Sooo since a balance patch is, probably, near… Please arenanet remember to add a GM trait in corruption line that make torment does full damage in pve only.
Oh and Also fixe mace2 terrain issues please.
Thanks have nice day
If only.
Condi Rev being actually viable regarding damage in PvE would be pretty amazing, but I doubt they will actually do this.
It already is viable. Put down fire field and make enemies move in it, thus you have full damage Torment + Burning. Going full Vipers and using damage/duration food also helps, maybe trait the “Poison when applying Torment” for 3 different types of Condi on an enemy.
Condi Rev does deal more damage than people give it credit for, although I will say having Torment (in pve only) applying full damage anyway would be somewhat of a nice buff.
It already is viable.
Attachments:
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
It already is viable.
LUL, yeah he is good at those funny memes
It already is viable.
Got any numbers to back this statement?
I really am curious to see how it would compare vs straight power or other condi professions.
Tested condi rev pretty extensively yesterday using realistic buffs on the stationary large 4mil hp golem and the mobile 1mil hp golem.
Stationary: 23.5k
Mobile: 24.5k
The mobile golem unfortunately doesn’t have a higher hp option, so I imagine the actual dps would be .5 to 1k higher since it just dies too fast to get a really accurate number. My rotations weren’t perfect, so I imagine if someone with even better rotations came in they could manage 1-2k more on both golems. Overall it seems to be nearly comparable to Power Rev.
Build was Devastation/Corruption/Invocation. Mallyx/Jalis, geomancy/smoldering, veggie pizza toxic focusing. I found Glint to be a 1.5-2k dps loss over Jalis and the Herald traitline to be less dps than Invocation even with Jalis.
Condi rev might actually do well on Matthias or VG; gonna try it with my guild soon to see what types of numbers I get.
Tested condi rev pretty extensively yesterday using realistic buffs on the stationary large 4mil hp golem and the mobile 1mil hp golem.
Stationary: 23.5k
Mobile: 24.5kThe mobile golem unfortunately doesn’t have a higher hp option, so I imagine the actual dps would be .5 to 1k higher since it just dies too fast to get a really accurate number. My rotations weren’t perfect, so I imagine if someone with even better rotations came in they could manage 1-2k more on both golems. Overall it seems to be nearly comparable to Power Rev.
Build was Devastation/Corruption/Invocation. Mallyx/Jalis, geomancy/smoldering, veggie pizza toxic focusing. I found Glint to be a 1.5-2k dps loss over Jalis and the Herald traitline to be less dps than Invocation even with Jalis.
Condi rev might actually do well on Matthias or VG; gonna try it with my guild soon to see what types of numbers I get.
Which weapon sets are you using?
Tested condi rev pretty extensively yesterday using realistic buffs on the stationary large 4mil hp golem and the mobile 1mil hp golem.
Stationary: 23.5k
Mobile: 24.5kThe mobile golem unfortunately doesn’t have a higher hp option, so I imagine the actual dps would be .5 to 1k higher since it just dies too fast to get a really accurate number. My rotations weren’t perfect, so I imagine if someone with even better rotations came in they could manage 1-2k more on both golems. Overall it seems to be nearly comparable to Power Rev.
Build was Devastation/Corruption/Invocation. Mallyx/Jalis, geomancy/smoldering, veggie pizza toxic focusing. I found Glint to be a 1.5-2k dps loss over Jalis and the Herald traitline to be less dps than Invocation even with Jalis.
Condi rev might actually do well on Matthias or VG; gonna try it with my guild soon to see what types of numbers I get.
Which weapon sets are you using?
Mace axe, proccing geomancy on legend swap, channeling hammers in jalis/avatar in mallyx
took staff as secondary for CC, but didn’t use it in the test and wouldn’t use it except for CC in a raid
(edited by LucianTheAngelic.7054)
Tested condi rev pretty extensively yesterday using realistic buffs on the stationary large 4mil hp golem and the mobile 1mil hp golem.
Stationary: 23.5k
Mobile: 24.5kThe mobile golem unfortunately doesn’t have a higher hp option, so I imagine the actual dps would be .5 to 1k higher since it just dies too fast to get a really accurate number. My rotations weren’t perfect, so I imagine if someone with even better rotations came in they could manage 1-2k more on both golems. Overall it seems to be nearly comparable to Power Rev.
Build was Devastation/Corruption/Invocation. Mallyx/Jalis, geomancy/smoldering, veggie pizza toxic focusing. I found Glint to be a 1.5-2k dps loss over Jalis and the Herald traitline to be less dps than Invocation even with Jalis.
Condi rev might actually do well on Matthias or VG; gonna try it with my guild soon to see what types of numbers I get.
So it is even worse than what I expected
Not even full torment damage can make it viable (read as a competitive DPS dealer).
The guy above me did tests, although an imperfect rotation as he stated. I run Glint/Mallynx with pure Viper set, Condi duration/damage food, 4x runes of nightmare and 2x runes of trapper.
I lead off with Glint immediately then pop down Mace #2 for Burning, Poison treated Mace hits gives me 3x Conditions at that point, and I constantly move in the Field for constant burning. Throw in the Elemental drop, then Elite again when it recovers.
Your aim is generally to keep them moving in the Burning field, Might buff yourself with 3, and watch the damage go up.
Ignoring what other idiots say in the Rev forum, it is capable Condi, Power or Support.
Taking in Mind raids, running both condi or Power revenant make you Just cripple your squad.
If the numbers of the guy before are right, you do less DPS than a condi PS Warrior, that is a support class lol, there is not even a competition with other DPS class.
You obviusly can run and play whatever you want in Open Pve, fractals and even in raid, where in mostly encounters there isn’t any DPS check.
So revenant is viable? Yes it is, I mean litteraly everything is viable in this game.
But Is revenant a competitive DPS class in pve? No, is far away to bè any competitive.
The guy above me did tests, although an imperfect rotation as he stated. I run Glint/Mallynx with pure Viper set, Condi duration/damage food, 4x runes of nightmare and 2x runes of trapper.
I lead off with Glint immediately then pop down Mace #2 for Burning, Poison treated Mace hits gives me 3x Conditions at that point, and I constantly move in the Field for constant burning. Throw in the Elemental drop, then Elite again when it recovers.
Your aim is generally to keep them moving in the Burning field, Might buff yourself with 3, and watch the damage go up.
Ignoring what other idiots say in the Rev forum, it is capable Condi, Power or Support.
Taking in Mind raids, running both condi or Power revenant make you Just cripple your squad.
If the numbers of the guy before are right, you do less DPS than a condi PS Warrior, that is a support class lol, there is not even a competition with other DPS class.
You obviusly can run and play whatever you want in Open Pve, fractals and even in raid, where in mostly encounters there isn’t any DPS check.
So revenant is viable? Yes it is, I mean litteraly everything is viable in this game.
But Is revenant a competitive DPS class in pve? No, is far away to bè any competitive.
See – that’s the problem right there. It IS competitively viable. The problem far too many have is that they see “viable” as “kills 5 seconds faster”. Bringing a Rev is NEVER a detriment to the squad, ever. It allows squads to focus more on DPS and less on buff upkeep and spamming because the Rev handles it at once.
Focus less on speedrunning, more on the actual game. Speed running, how fast you do it in, doesn’t matter.
Seeing the little bit of Renegade that was leaked, it seems like they’re just going to way overcompensate in the new expansion and condi rev will be massively OP when that comes out.
The guy above me did tests, although an imperfect rotation as he stated. I run Glint/Mallynx with pure Viper set, Condi duration/damage food, 4x runes of nightmare and 2x runes of trapper.
I lead off with Glint immediately then pop down Mace #2 for Burning, Poison treated Mace hits gives me 3x Conditions at that point, and I constantly move in the Field for constant burning. Throw in the Elemental drop, then Elite again when it recovers.
Your aim is generally to keep them moving in the Burning field, Might buff yourself with 3, and watch the damage go up.
Ignoring what other idiots say in the Rev forum, it is capable Condi, Power or Support.
Taking in Mind raids, running both condi or Power revenant make you Just cripple your squad.
If the numbers of the guy before are right, you do less DPS than a condi PS Warrior, that is a support class lol, there is not even a competition with other DPS class.
You obviusly can run and play whatever you want in Open Pve, fractals and even in raid, where in mostly encounters there isn’t any DPS check.
So revenant is viable? Yes it is, I mean litteraly everything is viable in this game.
But Is revenant a competitive DPS class in pve? No, is far away to bè any competitive.See – that’s the problem right there. It IS competitively viable. The problem far too many have is that they see “viable” as “kills 5 seconds faster”. Bringing a Rev is NEVER a detriment to the squad, ever. It allows squads to focus more on DPS and less on buff upkeep and spamming because the Rev handles it at once.
Focus less on speedrunning, more on the actual game. Speed running, how fast you do it in, doesn’t matter.
How 24dps benchmark is competitive? While Also mostly moving bosses would run away from your Fire fields and stationary bosses would not proc torment bonus damage, so real DPS would be even lower.
In the end the difference in time would be way more than “5sec”, time that open more space for mistakes and eventually a wipe.
Then I, again, I really belive that everything is usable in this game, I mean you can kill all’ raid bosses without even bè in 10, or even running wired builds.
There were Also a group that killed Deimos with 10 revenant so trust me, I’m honest when I say revenant is usable in raid.
But if we talk about bè a COMPETITIVE DPS DEALER, then revenant is not competitive, and this not an opinion, it is a fact.
Also ok, revenant is a nice for boons generation, but that said we already have, in raids, 6 dedicated support classes (and 2 of them provide already more DPS than revenant) that doesn’t Need any help to provide their buffs.
I mean revenant only help with protection (since druids can already help better with might generation and Fury) where run a ministrell Chrono or a hammer DH would be a better DPS choose with a better protection uptime.
So if someone want to play a DPS class, that actually provide a competitive DPS, there are a lot of better choices. So I don’t get why I can’t Ask for some DPS buff to revenant… Maybe you can explain that to me?
Seeing the little bit of Renegade that was leaked, it seems like they’re just going to way overcompensate in the new expansion and condi rev will be massively OP when that comes out.
While what you say can bè true, I feel wired to balance a game through expansions pack instead of normal balance patch.
I mean, you can fix revenant damage output only with a simple numbers buff, you don’t even Need to rework anything
Rev can make some slight alterations to it’s rotation/build to upkeep protection well with only a minor dps loss, making it comparable to hammer guard (since hammer guard is lower dps than rev anyway).
as for the 24k, I was pretty surprised it was that high, actually. When people talk about condi rev being utter trash I figured the numbers were a lot lower, but this is pretty much the same dps as power reaper (which obviously isn’t good, but I’ve run with it a few times before).
Gonna try it on Matthias this saturday to see how it does.
Tested condi rev pretty extensively yesterday using realistic buffs on the stationary large 4mil hp golem and the mobile 1mil hp golem.
Stationary: 23.5k
Mobile: 24.5k
Thanks for taking the time out to do some number crunching – I appreciate that.
So its on the very low end, but usable. That’s not too bad, though it screams for improvement.
Seeing the little bit of Renegade that was leaked, it seems like they’re just going to way overcompensate in the new expansion and condi rev will be massively OP when that comes out.
…and then it begins its steady nerf trend to oblivion in the next 3~9 months after release because of pvp salt
The guy above me did tests, although an imperfect rotation as he stated. I run Glint/Mallynx with pure Viper set, Condi duration/damage food, 4x runes of nightmare and 2x runes of trapper.
I lead off with Glint immediately then pop down Mace #2 for Burning, Poison treated Mace hits gives me 3x Conditions at that point, and I constantly move in the Field for constant burning. Throw in the Elemental drop, then Elite again when it recovers.
Your aim is generally to keep them moving in the Burning field, Might buff yourself with 3, and watch the damage go up.
Ignoring what other idiots say in the Rev forum, it is capable Condi, Power or Support.
Taking in Mind raids, running both condi or Power revenant make you Just cripple your squad.
If the numbers of the guy before are right, you do less DPS than a condi PS Warrior, that is a support class lol, there is not even a competition with other DPS class.
You obviusly can run and play whatever you want in Open Pve, fractals and even in raid, where in mostly encounters there isn’t any DPS check.
So revenant is viable? Yes it is, I mean litteraly everything is viable in this game.
But Is revenant a competitive DPS class in pve? No, is far away to bè any competitive.See – that’s the problem right there. It IS competitively viable. The problem far too many have is that they see “viable” as “kills 5 seconds faster”. Bringing a Rev is NEVER a detriment to the squad, ever. It allows squads to focus more on DPS and less on buff upkeep and spamming because the Rev handles it at once.
Focus less on speedrunning, more on the actual game. Speed running, how fast you do it in, doesn’t matter.
How 24dps benchmark is competitive? While Also mostly moving bosses would run away from your Fire fields and stationary bosses would not proc torment bonus damage, so real DPS would be even lower.
In the end the difference in time would be way more than “5sec”, time that open more space for mistakes and eventually a wipe.Then I, again, I really belive that everything is usable in this game, I mean you can kill all’ raid bosses without even bè in 10, or even running wired builds.
There were Also a group that killed Deimos with 10 revenant so trust me, I’m honest when I say revenant is usable in raid.
But if we talk about bè a COMPETITIVE DPS DEALER, then revenant is not competitive, and this not an opinion, it is a fact.
Also ok, revenant is a nice for boons generation, but that said we already have, in raids, 6 dedicated support classes (and 2 of them provide already more DPS than revenant) that doesn’t Need any help to provide their buffs.
I mean revenant only help with protection (since druids can already help better with might generation and Fury) where run a ministrell Chrono or a hammer DH would be a better DPS choose with a better protection uptime.So if someone want to play a DPS class, that actually provide a competitive DPS, there are a lot of better choices. So I don’t get why I can’t Ask for some DPS buff to revenant… Maybe you can explain that to me?
See the word “competitive” is a fallacy here (really should’ve pointed it out before). In PVE you don’t compete, in PVP you do. Viable is a better word, more accurate. Condi Rev is viable, same as other Condi classes.
On a moving boss, if you aren’t keeping it moving in your fire field, you are doing it wrong. It should be kept in the fire field and moving for full Condi damage.
Stationary bosses are far and few between (excluding World bosses), but regrettably they will be a DPS loss for your Torment.
It would not be anything like a wipe if the team is capable and know what they’re doing. The problem spreadsheet warriors have is that if they think you aren’t doing it their way, you’re auto-doing it wrong, you must be running a nomad xyz or something in their eyes “poor”. At the end of the day, in PVE it doesn’t matter who does it faster, you aren’t competing. If you compete in PVE, that’s on your own kitten and utterly irrelevant.
Rev can make some slight alterations to it’s rotation/build to upkeep protection well with only a minor dps loss, making it comparable to hammer guard (since hammer guard is lower dps than rev anyway).
My bad I want clear I was talking taking in Mind the 24k DPS Number of condi rev the guy posted before.
@In nerfing time: as “competitive” DPS I mean the ability of a class to provide more or less the same DPS of other classes, to “compete” for get the spot in raids reserved for DPS classes.
And revenant is not competitive in this sense.
All’ what you say it’s nice, Yes rev help a lot. But in the end he does cover the DPS role, without gettin any near at other DPS classes. And have a revenant in party that make other supportive classes focus for more DPS doesn’t provide more sqaud DPS overall, if not all top guilds would run One, and you know what? No one run it.
Again I’m totally in the mentality of “play what you want”
But since me, and a lot of other players, mostly pug raids, 99% times when you try to join with a revenant people Ask you to reroll or kick you.
So to be honest we can easily say that for pug raids revenant is not even viable or usable, since no one Will accept you.
Just go with your condi revenant and try to join pug groups, people Will laugh at you kick you.
Also what you mean with “other classes can focus more in DPS and less in provide boon”?
You mean change their rotation or change their gear?
@In nerfing time: as “competitive” DPS I mean the ability of a class to provide more or less the same DPS of other classes, to “compete” for get the spot in raids reserved for DPS classes.
And revenant is not competitive in this sense.
All’ what you say it’s nice, Yes rev help a lot. But in the end he does cover the DPS role, without gettin any near at other DPS classes. And have a revenant in party that make other supportive classes focus for more DPS doesn’t provide more sqaud DPS overall, if not all top guilds would run One, and you know what? No one run it.
Again I’m totally in the mentality of “play what you want”
But since me, and a lot of other players, mostly pug raids, 99% times when you try to join with a revenant people Ask you to reroll or kick you.
So to be honest we can easily say that for pug raids revenant is not even viable or usable, since no one Will accept you.
Just go with your condi revenant and try to join pug groups, people Will laugh at you kick you.Also what you mean with “other classes can focus more in DPS and less in provide boon”?
You mean change their rotation or change their gear?
Yes but competitive in that sense is still wrong. It’s still the mindset of somebody looking for speed run, whereas if you don’t and accept any class as viable (providing the person knows what they’re doing) you can do the content without any issues.
The “top” guilds don’t run Rev because QT said not to, that’s the sole reason. They are too busy playing spreadsheet wars 2 that they think the single speedrun meta way is viable and nothing else is, that’s why I wouldn’t waste my time with dead weight like that, because they have no ability to think. “go here do this in this way or else”, not even remotely a good way to think for a game.
If people laugh/kick, then they are dead weight who can’t think. It’s literally that simple. They’re the type of people who couldn’t complete ANY content without somebody else doing it first, recording it and spreadsheeting it.
If QT never ran their benchmarking and videoing and anything else, never released any spreadsheets for people, all dead weight speedrunners would never finish any raid boss, let alone a wing.
Yeah ok so for you most of players that pug raids are Dead weight, and no one accept revenant because of that.
But still condi revenant is not accepted in pugs, that’s mean that at least in pugs is not viable, and this the reason why I made this post.
Then you are free to play it with your raid team, but please don’t come here to say us condi revenant is viable, since me, and every other player that pug raid, can’t never get a group while on Power revenant, and this could be even worse with condi revenant.
Yeah ok so for you most of players that pug raids are Dead weight, and no one accept revenant because of that.
But still condi revenant is not accepted in pugs, that’s mean that at least in pugs is not viable, and this the reason why I made this post.Then you are free to play it with your raid team, but please don’t come here to say us condi revenant is viable, since me, and every other player that pug raid, can’t never get a group while on Power revenant, and this could be even worse with condi revenant.
Incorrect – those who only accept meta-speedrun tactics to me are dead weight.
Condi Rev is viable by the fact of being viable. Whether or not it’s accepted by others is irrelevant. Viable and accepted are two different things.
It’s perfectly possible to get a pug raid with a Rev, you just have to find a group who don’t care about speedrunning. It was no different back when the “zerk meta” infested dungeons. If you didn’t run zerk, find a group who didn’t care. Other classes/builds were viable then, but not accepted as everybody wanted quick runs.
Blablablabla
Still 99% of Groups on lfg Ask you to reroll if you Ask to play as condi revenant.
So it is usable, that means you can get a kill using it, while you can Also get a kill in 4players.
It is not viable nor accepted since close to no one allow you to play it.
Again the fact you can play it with your raid team means it is usable, not viable nor accepted.
You know most people out of here that pugs raids doesn’t want to wait 2h to find a group in lfg that allow you to play revenant, while they can find instantly a group with any other DPS class.
And I’m not being pessimist or negative or call revenant trash. The fact you can’t find raid Groups on lfg with revenant is not even my opinion is a fact.
You can have your point of view about what revenant can provide to your group, but mayority of the players think it is not worth to give a DPS spot to a revenant. And this means revenant’s players can’t find a group, that means it is not accepted, that means it is not viable.
So we can stop here to talk or we can go on Forever to say it is or it isn’t viable but in the while in lfg no one Ask or accept revenant (if not as kiter for Deimos and cairn).
But at least I suggested something to help revenant balance while you are only saying it is already ok,thing that is obviusly untrue since benchmark DPS for condi revenant seems to be 24k while for the most used class start from 30k and go higher.
Blablablabla
Still 99% of Groups on lfg Ask you to reroll if you Ask to play as condi revenant.
So it is usable, that means you can get a kill using it, while you can Also get a kill in 4players.
It is not viable nor accepted since close to no one allow you to play it.Again the fact you can play it with your raid team means it is usable, not viable nor accepted.
You know most people out of here that pugs raids doesn’t want to wait 2h to find a group in lfg that allow you to play revenant, while they can find instantly a group with any other DPS class.
And I’m not being pessimist or negative or call revenant trash. The fact you can’t find raid Groups on lfg with revenant is not even my opinion is a fact.
You can have your point of view about what revenant can provide to your group, but mayority of the players think it is not worth to give a DPS spot to a revenant. And this means revenant’s players can’t find a group, that means it is not accepted, that means it is not viable.
So we can stop here to talk or we can go on Forever to say it is or it isn’t viable but in the while in lfg no one Ask or accept revenant (if not as kiter for Deimos and cairn).
But at least I suggested something to help revenant balance while you are only saying it is already ok,thing that is obviusly untrue since benchmark DPS for condi revenant seems to be 24k while for the most used class start from 30k and go higher.
Apparently you don’t seem to get it.
Condi Rev IS viable, it’s just not accepted. Two different things as explained – do I need to go slower on this? 99% of groups is also a laughable claim, and if you don’t have enough of a backbone to tell people you’re going Rev regardless, you shouldn’t be bothering.
The fact that some pugs have speedrun mentality does not mean something is not viable, just not accepted in speedrun circles.
2 hours is a laugh, you can find one quicker than that – when was the last time you tried exactly? It’s not hard to find a raid group, or put one together yourself.
Again, not accepted != not viable. Something can be viable but not accepted. Do I seriously have to explain that one again?
I’ve stated before, I’m not against Rev buffs – I’m against people claiming the sorts of things you are right now (that it’s not viable).
tl;dr?
It’s viable, not accepted. They are two different things. Stop relying on meta-speedrun-garbage groups to ascertain if something is viable – use the thing to determine if it’s viable.
i.e. can it complete the content without issues? Yes? Viable.
Past week. I have 250li and kp of every boss,even 3cm.
I tried to join a lot of group and every group asked me to reroll. Only One allowed me, on trio, to cc Mortars lol.
Do you trust me or I have to start posting screenshot?
Instead when was last time you tried to join a pug group?
I can put on a full magi set on my thief, Camp staff auto and get my dps carried by other 9 people in the group, and kill every encounter without any issue!
Yay magi thief is viable!
Please man….
Past week. I have 250li and kp of every boss,even 3cm.
I tried to join a lot of group and every group asked me to reroll. Only One allowed me, on trio, to cc Mortars lol.
Do you trust me or I have to start posting screenshot?
Instead when was last time you tried to join a pug group?I can put on a full magi set on my thief, Camp staff auto and get my dps carried by other 9 people in the group, and kill every encounter without any issue!
Yay magi thief is viable!Please man….
Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe…….you’re in the wrong groups? If you try to get a class not accepted by the meta speedrun squads, accepted, it wouldn’t work? Maybe don’t go for the usual groups?
Maybe it’s just my personal experiences, but I’ve not had issues using Rev for Power, Support or Condi in raid groups. I avoid speed run groups though so maybe that has something to do with it?
And oh look, the fallacy I stated earlier rears its head. I stated quite explicitly that because you run something not viewed as accepted by the meta squads does not mean that something that makes no sense is viable. So thanks for proving my point for me!
Condi Rev IS viable, just not accepted. It does not get carried.
I have considered to join any kind of group, no one wanted a revenant as DPS class. For sure After trying and trying you May find a group, but again spend more time to find a group instead of playing is not something funny, since with another classes you can be instantly accepted.
And is not about speedrun group.
Actually I exagerated with the magi thief thing, but is to make you get the point, that you seem to not understand.
As a 10th player of a raid squad you can litteraly play everything, because 9man are already enough to kill easily any raid encounter in this game (maybe only samarog on cm is not).
You can play even d/d celestial ele or rifle Warrior or what you want. But the fact you can get a kill with it doesn’t mean you are playing a viable DPS, you can use it, Yes… So is USABLE.
You are playing a VIABLE DPS BUILD when you can get AT LEAST more DPS than supportive classes, and supportive classes (aka cps Warrior) Will always outdps both power and condi revenant (taking in Mind everyone know to play his class) and other players have to make up for the DPS you are missing.
USABLE: you can play it, provide mediocre or terrible dps and get the kill (every class can listed here, even magi thief)
VIABLE: you are providing actually more DPS than supportive classes
OPTIMAL: mostly get top DPS vs other classes or builds
So Yes condi revenant is usable, but not viable and this is the reason why no one want it.
While maybe Power revenant can be viable in most of average groups (while get carried when all people in squad know to play their class well)
You can not care about speedruns (i don’t care about them) but if your are providing poor DPS as a DPS class you have to know that someone else in your group have to make up for it.
That said I have nothing more to say to you. I already said I think every class can be usable in raids, but i think condi revenant is not viable while you think it is.
Every One have his point of you I don’t want to change my, since I trust I true, and you seems don’t want to change yours so gg.
(edited by lucadiro.4519)
I have considered to join any kind of group, no one wanted a revenant as DPS class. For sure After trying and trying you May find a group, but again spend more time to find a group instead of playing is not something funny, since with another classes you can be instantly accepted.
And is not about speedrun group.Actually I exagerated with the magi thief thing, but is to make you get the point, that you seem to not understand.
As a 10th player of a raid squad you can litteraly play everything, because 9man are already enough to kill easily any raid encounter in this game (maybe only samarog on cm is not).
You can play even d/d celestial ele or rifle Warrior or what you want. But the fact you can get a kill with it doesn’t mean you are playing a viable DPS, you can use it, Yes… So is USABLE.
You are playing a VIABLE DPS BUILD when you can get AT LEAST more DPS than supportive classes, and supportive classes (aka cps Warrior) Will always outdps both power and condi revenant (taking in Mind everyone know to play his class) and other players have to make up for the DPS you are missing.
USABLE: you can play it, provide mediocre or terrible dps and get the kill (every class can listed here, even magi thief)
VIABLE: you are providing actually more DPS than supportive classes
OPTIMAL: mostly get top DPS vs other classes or builds
So Yes condi revenant is usable, but not viable and this is the reason why no one want it.
While maybe Power revenant can be viable in most of average groups (while get carried when all people in squad know to play their class well)
You can not care about speedruns (i don’t care about them) but if your are providing poor DPS as a DPS class you have to know that someone else in your group have to make up for it.That said I have nothing more to say to you. I already said I think every class can be usable in raids, but i think condi revenant is not viable while you think it is.
Every One have his point of you I don’t want to change my, since I trust I true, and you seems don’t want to change yours so gg.
I’ve never had the experience you have, people do not seem to discriminate against choices in the groups I join (but then I’m more selective and don’t waste my time on dead weight speed runners). They are the only type to say “no we don’t want Rev as it’s not meta”.
You didn’t exaggerate with Magi Thief – you made exactly the point I said you would, as others do.
You’re misunderstanding the difference between usable, viable and optimal.
Usable – anything
Viable – anything that can complete content comfortably
Optimal – Anything that has been meta-data-crunched for speedrunning.
Condi Rev is viable, regardless of your opinion on the subject. Regardless of any majority opinion on the subject (quicknote, majority opinion does not equal right).
Rev is never carried if the player knows what they are doing. I’ve carried groups in Fractals as Rev simply because I can survive and DPS. How much DPS you do is irrelevant if you can’t live. If you know what you’re doing, then you won’t need anyone else to pick up the slack because you will be providing the DPS.
As soon as you stop misunderstanding the difference between usable and viable, you’ll realise Condi Rev is viable.
The “top” guilds don’t run Rev because QT said not to, that’s the sole reason. They are too busy playing spreadsheet wars 2 that they think the single speedrun meta way is viable and nothing else is, that’s why I wouldn’t waste my time with dead weight like that, because they have no ability to think. “go here do this in this way or else”, not even remotely a good way to think for a game.
The reason Rev fell out is because a.net nerfed SoI and Natural Resonance in the same patch… This meant that groups now had to bring two chronos instead of one for quickness AND they had to gear for at least some boon duration even with a Rev there.
So it made much more sense for the meta to leave us behind for that second chrono than to drop a DPS slot since Natural Resonance didn’t let people gear completely offensively anymore anyways.
I still think rev’s are useful if you’re in a guild run that can build around one being there… And while they bring a lot of safety to a pug with the extra boon duration and 100% protection up time, most pugs are going to just follow the max-dps meta, because it gives you the greatest chance of success when playing with unknown players.
to be fair, if we’re comparing rev to condi ps, condi ps is practically a full blown dps at this point that also has supportive elements. I’m not sure I’d even consider it a full support at all anymore.
It gets better dps than Hammer Guard and I don’t think anyone would classify Hammer Guard as “Support”
Sooo since a balance patch is, probably, near… Please arenanet remember to add a GM trait in corruption line that make torment does full damage in pve only.
Oh and Also fixe mace2 terrain issues please.
Thanks have nice day
Not to rain in your party, but the last intervention fron ANet in this forum rest in the page 17 of 103 in the Revenant forums (11 months ago). I highly doubt that they even care about what people write in the forums (they are much more active in reddit).
Why is everyone that disagrees with you a boy, kid, moron, “spreadsheet warrior,” a bad player in general who can’t stay alive, bad at revenant or a fool who doesn’t know how to put together a build?
I don’t have a stake in this fight, because the rev is not my main class, but I do have a few observations. I always encourage anyone to play whatever class they enjoy in whatever content they enjoy. I think, however, in your exaggerated condescension of people, you have glossed over some legitimate issues that are facing this class, at least when it comes to raids.
I have no reason to doubt your claim that you have no issues playing revenant in raids, but that is a real obstacle for some people, at least from my observations in NA. You’ve said, as I recall that you play with guilds and your group pugs a few slots, if I remember correctly. Many people are not in that situation, because they are not in a guild that does raids. So people like that can either buy a commander tag and start their own group, or, most likely, they’re forced to pug.
Aside from the hands kiter Ventari rev in the Deimos fight, pug commanders and raid squads don’t like revs of any kind, much less condi revs. Now we can go back and forth all day long about why that’s the case, that if that’s true those people are just spreadsheet sheep dummies that can’t play without qT telling them what to do and whatever, but it is the case. A group asks for dps, someone joins on a rev, they’re asked to switch, if they say “No, I’m playing rev, rev is fine,” then they’re kicked. They might find a training run that doesn’t care, but for people who are interested in kills, it’s a tough go for them.
So someone that wants to raid, has multiple toons geared and has options has a choice. One option is they continually join groups on a rev, have to get kicked multiple times, argue with people about it, get kicked some more and wait for maybe 2 or more hours, find a group, the group fails and people blame the rev for the group’s low dps, then either kick him or people leave, then all that time is wasted. Or he can switch to another class, find a group right away and get going. You say you haven’t run into that problem, but I’ve definitely seen it and so have many others. Not everyone has a guild group that don’t care what class people run, and not everyone has a spare 300 gold to buy a commander tag without wiping out their savings. Even if a rev started his own group without a tag, those are real issues he has to face.
I actually enjoy seeing revs in fractals, would never say it’s a bad class overall (though it does have some issues that need addressing), and have been in groups that have cleared raid wings with revs. But people’s attitude about revs is not irrelevant, as you say, because perception in many cases can be more important than truth. Any time you have to rely on pugs to get in a raid, then that particular pug groups’ attitude controls what you’re allowed to play and what you’re not. Telling someone to ignore those dead weight “spreadsheet warriors”, as you like to call them, doesn’t solve the problem, because the person is still stuck waiting for a group.
As far as condi rev goes, I would like to see someone’s actual numbers on that in raid situations, because it seems to me that with the common strategies people use, the bosses don’t move enough to take advantage of the torment. Bandit Trio and Escort have multiple adds, which would favor going Power Rev. Keep Construct would be power no question because of the burst phases involved. Although a rare strat early on, many groups now do no updraft Gorseval, so he doesn’t move there. Sabetha doesn’t move. If the group has good dps, Vale Guardian doesn’t move much at all. Slothasor moves a little, then is kept in place, and when he is moved, he isn’t moved for long. Same with Xera, she’s also moved very little. Your experience may be different than what I’ve seen, but I’m not sure how torment would be any good on any boss other than Matthias. I haven’t personally tested it, but some friends of mine have tried it and found it lackluster, and that’s not because they’re spreadsheet sheep who don’t know how to make a build.
It’s cool that your passionate about the class and want to help people with it, but some good points that you do make get lost in your bile, hyperbole, insults and sweeping statements that can apply generally, but do not universally. Not everyone who sees issues with your opinions is dumb a qT sheep or bad at the class.
snip
Take a good long look at the people and their posts, they are immediately writing off the Rev in any state and their reasoning is this:
“it’s not meta”
That’s it. As if somehow, in some magical universe, being meta is what matters. These people play in spreadsheets, they don’t play the game. They don’t play because they can’t, they rely on somebody else to do the work and then they copycat. I have no patience or general “niceness” to people who are just lazy, incapable or unwilling.
Pugs don’t like Revs because somebody else said so, those pugs are wastes of time because they wouldn’t know what they were doing nor have the ability to adapt in a new raid or fractal, or any kind of content.
The major issues Rev have when it comes to raids for example, is a bad name. A lot of people just base it off of others work. They have issues in PVP which is also brought over into PVE sadly. Peoples attitudes are more the problem than anything else, which is what has to change.
I have yet to see or meet anyone who is a spreadsheet warrior who has actually tried Rev, who isn’t a waste of time. The day begins with people explaining and showing, and defending the Rev, that’s how you change minds. You also don’t waste time with those who can’t think.
In terms of Raid bosses and not moving, you can move some of them around (VG for example you can keep moving continuously around the center circle). As stated before, Torment when faced with bosses who don’t move at all does have a slight downside but that’s why you have more than just one Condi to apply as a Rev.
Nerfing, if your goal is to show all the pugs that the spreadsheet warriors they look up to and copy are wrong, you’re going about it the wrong way by posting in the rev section. You, or someone just as stubborn as you, needs to make a few videos of revs in raid groups with explanations of how it’s meant to play and function as a part of the team, showing what it brings which other classes don’t, and post them in the fractals, dungeons & raids section. You’ll find a lot more of the “it’s not meta crowd” over there, the people you feel need some convincing.
Ignoring what other idiots say in the Rev forum, it is capable Condi, Power or Support.
Just like any class. Except for it doesn’t excel at required lvl in any of them.
Famous for what, PVP? PVE? If PVP then irrelevant, GW2 is a PVE game with some PVP.
If only few actually cared about PvE more than they do about PvP. Besides there are far more famous iconic players in PvP.
Noone is gonna raid with revenant nowadays, unless it’s their guildmate (and they still prefered a thief tho). I also see less Rev roamers (especially solo) on WvW lately, since I am back to GW2 1 month ago. Can’t say anything about SPvP because I simply had no motivation to play it like I used to but afaik my buddies list is lacking revenants.
On the side, nevermind. Noone is gonna read these forums anyway kek
Pug mentality is too inflexible for my liking but Condi Rev has a damage ceiling 25-30% lower than Condi Ranger and is much harder to reach that ceiling thanks to Torment. So it’s not viable for pugs. The thing about pugs is that you don’t know or trust the people in your group to do their job. So assuming equal skill between a condi Ranger and a condi Rev, why go for the lesser option? I think this approach has a lot of negatives, but it’s wholly understandable and has nothing to do with being mindless or speedclearing. It has to do with overcompensating as much as possible in order to get the smoothest kills.
As for how to change perceptions, it’s pretty easy, Nerfing. Prove condi Rev is good, using video proof, dps logs, guides, etc. Necro post minion nerf was trash in raids, until it was proven it’s actually competitive provided you can spin to win in your fields. Minstrel Chrono was a meme, until it was proven it was actually pretty good for progression teams and super safe comps.
Nerfing, if your goal is to show all the pugs that the spreadsheet warriors they look up to and copy are wrong, you’re going about it the wrong way by posting in the rev section. You, or someone just as stubborn as you, needs to make a few videos of revs in raid groups with explanations of how it’s meant to play and function as a part of the team, showing what it brings which other classes don’t, and post them in the fractals, dungeons & raids section. You’ll find a lot more of the “it’s not meta crowd” over there, the people you feel need some convincing.
I prove people wrong by playing it in those situations, doing damage and providing more than ample support/boons etc at the same time. For the most part as far as I’m concerned and have pointed out before, the meta crowd are dead weight and a waste of time because they only believe their spreadsheets.
Ignoring what other idiots say in the Rev forum, it is capable Condi, Power or Support.
Just like any class. Except for it doesn’t excel at required lvl in any of them.
Famous for what, PVP? PVE? If PVP then irrelevant, GW2 is a PVE game with some PVP.
If only few actually cared about PvE more than they do about PvP. Besides there are far more famous iconic players in PvP.
Noone is gonna raid with revenant nowadays, unless it’s their guildmate (and they still prefered a thief tho). I also see less Rev roamers (especially solo) on WvW lately, since I am back to GW2 1 month ago. Can’t say anything about SPvP because I simply had no motivation to play it like I used to but afaik my buddies list is lacking revenants.On the side, nevermind. Noone is gonna read these forums anyway kek
The Rev is a sort of “jack of all trades” in a sense, it can fill any role. I’d rather have that level of flexibility than a one-shot-wonder class.
I’ve never heard of any PVP’ers for GW2 nor would I expect to. PVP in this game is a sideshow, a dead sideshow at that. You only need to wander into the PVP section and take a look at the posts of “PVP is dead”, “ESL xyz”, “what the feck Anet – balance?”. You can easily see how many of them talk about these “famous” PVP’ers and how they’ve pretty much all left.
End of the day, PVE is the main game.
The day people stop being spreadsheet warriors and waiting to copy-cat other people, and actually start doing some work, they’ll realise the problem with Revs was their mindset, not the class.
Pug mentality is too inflexible for my liking but Condi Rev has a damage ceiling 25-30% lower than Condi Ranger and is much harder to reach that ceiling thanks to Torment. So it’s not viable for pugs. The thing about pugs is that you don’t know or trust the people in your group to do their job. So assuming equal skill between a condi Ranger and a condi Rev, why go for the lesser option? I think this approach has a lot of negatives, but it’s wholly understandable and has nothing to do with being mindless or speedclearing. It has to do with overcompensating as much as possible in order to get the smoothest kills.
As for how to change perceptions, it’s pretty easy, Nerfing. Prove condi Rev is good, using video proof, dps logs, guides, etc. Necro post minion nerf was trash in raids, until it was proven it’s actually competitive provided you can spin to win in your fields. Minstrel Chrono was a meme, until it was proven it was actually pretty good for progression teams and super safe comps.
By that mindset, why assume competency and skill on any class that’s seen as meta-viable if you’re in a pug?
The speedclear approach is a bad one and a wrong one, especially if you aren’t the one who originally came up with it and thoroughly understands it. If you’re just copying (which a lot of pugs do) then you aren’t going to understand (or care to learn) why.
As said earlier, I prove by doing. I prove by playing, in-game, where it matters. I’m fairly certain if I did all the videos etc, I’d still have morons going “rev not viable”. I’ve had it a few times when doing pugs, and yet they got mad when I was the one doing the damage and reviving them.
The day people stop being spreadsheet warriors and waiting to copy-cat other people, and actually start doing some work, they’ll realise the problem with Revs was their mindset, not the class.
Like what? Making up a build that noone ever used before? I am pretty sure those who care enough have done lots of work towards that direction without any fruit , it’s not like the class encourages that though. Shots fired.
I’ve been running some build noone else uses for ages along with meta ones, trying to adapt to the situation but what’s the point. And if you say PvP is dead then why do they balance classes around it hurting PvE as a result?
The day people stop being spreadsheet warriors and waiting to copy-cat other people, and actually start doing some work, they’ll realise the problem with Revs was their mindset, not the class.
Like what? Making up a build that noone ever used before? I am pretty sure those who care enough have done lots of work towards that direction without any fruit , it’s not like the class encourages that though. Shots fired.
I’ve been running some build noone else uses for ages along with meta ones, trying to adapt to the situation but what’s the point. And if you say PvP is dead then why do they balance classes around it hurting PvE as a result?
The Rev is somewhat limited when compared to other classes because it’s the only one with locked-down skills, but on the flip side has 6 skills rather than 3 on the bar with the legend swap. Versatile if you know what you’re doing.
You don’t need to make up some magic build for the Rev, just simply be good at what it does. Attacking and defending at the same time, timing your CC, watching the fight, your enemies and allies and knowing where to plug the gap, what to do and when. Spacial awareness.
They don’t entirely balance around PVP as much as they used to thankfully, it was a 100% gigantic mistake to ever do so. They should have done a total split of skills like they did for GW1, but I have little faith in the balance team to actually be competent here.
PVP is dead, that much is clear if you take a stroll through the forums and lack of players alike. Hell if I can go to the mists and encounter 3 – 4 players tops at a “busy” period when playing for 8 hours to get my legendary, (and yes WVW is PVP), that’s pretty dead too.
Honestly, take a read of the PVP forum if you haven’t already – it makes for interesting reading when you consider how hard Anet was pushing for e-sports with PVP (that died)
The day people stop being spreadsheet warriors and waiting to copy-cat other people, and actually start doing some work, they’ll realise the problem with Revs was their mindset, not the class.
Like what? Making up a build that noone ever used before? I am pretty sure those who care enough have done lots of work towards that direction without any fruit , it’s not like the class encourages that though. Shots fired.
I’ve been running some build noone else uses for ages along with meta ones, trying to adapt to the situation but what’s the point. And if you say PvP is dead then why do they balance classes around it hurting PvE as a result?The Rev is somewhat limited when compared to other classes because it’s the only one with locked-down skills, but on the flip side has 6 skills rather than 3 on the bar with the legend swap. Versatile if you know what you’re doing.
You don’t need to make up some magic build for the Rev, just simply be good at what it does. Attacking and defending at the same time, timing your CC, watching the fight, your enemies and allies and knowing where to plug the gap, what to do and when. Spacial awareness.
They don’t entirely balance around PVP as much as they used to thankfully, it was a 100% gigantic mistake to ever do so. They should have done a total split of skills like they did for GW1, but I have little faith in the balance team to actually be competent here.
PVP is dead, that much is clear if you take a stroll through the forums and lack of players alike. Hell if I can go to the mists and encounter 3 – 4 players tops at a “busy” period when playing for 8 hours to get my legendary, (and yes WVW is PVP), that’s pretty dead too.
Honestly, take a read of the PVP forum if you haven’t already – it makes for interesting reading when you consider how hard Anet was pushing for e-sports with PVP (that died)
What server are you playing on……..
EU – Desolation. Full server
What works in a group is dependent on the GROUP, not the class. It’s been like that since day 1 and continues to be. If a class or build doesn’t work, it’s because the scrub group you’re teaming with doesn’t know how to play. Assuming that you NEED something in specific is making the kittenumption that Anet designs the encounters for a specific composition. That’s not how GW2 has ever worked.
What works in a group is dependent on the GROUP, not the class. It’s been like that since day 1 and continues to be. If a class or build doesn’t work, it’s because the scrub group you’re teaming with doesn’t know how to play. Assuming that you NEED something in specific is making the kittenumption that Anet designs the encounters for a specific composition. That’s not how GW2 has ever worked.
That’s the self made conundrum though… If you’re in a non-scrub group, they’re probably all playing meta classes in meta builds (or something very close.) When you see people playing something crazy, like Condi Rev, there’s like 99.9% chance they don’t even know the basics of the encounter, and even if they do, you’re group’s going to be slow on the DPS.
And if you’re using a wild class choice and failing and blaming it on your group being scrubs, don’t you think that maybe if you played a class choice/group comp more optimal to the fight, they might have succeeded? Because while no composition is REQUIRED to clear any content, there’s certainly ones that are better. Why would you want to do a bajillion core phases on KC when you could just play your tempest and bring a PS and a Chrono and a Druid for max buffs instead of trying to 10 man condi-rev it?
I should add that this is speaking strictly from a PUG perspective…
What works in a group is dependent on the GROUP, not the class. It’s been like that since day 1 and continues to be. If a class or build doesn’t work, it’s because the scrub group you’re teaming with doesn’t know how to play. Assuming that you NEED something in specific is making the kittenumption that Anet designs the encounters for a specific composition. That’s not how GW2 has ever worked.
That’s the self made conundrum though… If you’re in a non-scrub group, they’re probably all playing meta classes in meta builds (or something very close.) When you see people playing something crazy, like Condi Rev, there’s like 99.9% chance they don’t even know the basics of the encounter, and even if they do, you’re group’s going to be slow on the DPS.
And if you’re using a wild class choice and failing and blaming it on your group being scrubs, don’t you think that maybe if you played a class choice/group comp more optimal to the fight, they might have succeeded? Because while no composition is REQUIRED to clear any content, there’s certainly ones that are better. Why would you want to do a bajillion core phases on KC when you could just play your tempest and bring a PS and a Chrono and a Druid for max buffs instead of trying to 10 man condi-rev it?
I should add that this is speaking strictly from a PUG perspective…
The perception that Condi Rev is “something crazy” is quite the problem I’d say. It’s not – just the perception is. The assumption also of “99.9%” is interesting also.
I know in Overwatch it has stats on how many hours you’ve put into a Hero. Here you do have how many hours on a particular character created but not quite in the same level of depth. Maybe something like that would be a great thing to have trackable so you could tell if the person playing the class has lots or little experience.
Even after the buffs, I don’t think Condi rev will be great on the ole dps… But I think Mallyx/Glint/Sage Amulet will be pretty fierce next pvp season.
What works in a group is dependent on the GROUP, not the class. It’s been like that since day 1 and continues to be. If a class or build doesn’t work, it’s because the scrub group you’re teaming with doesn’t know how to play. Assuming that you NEED something in specific is making the kittenumption that Anet designs the encounters for a specific composition. That’s not how GW2 has ever worked.
That’s the self made conundrum though… If you’re in a non-scrub group, they’re probably all playing meta classes in meta builds (or something very close.) When you see people playing something crazy, like Condi Rev, there’s like 99.9% chance they don’t even know the basics of the encounter, and even if they do, you’re group’s going to be slow on the DPS.
And if you’re using a wild class choice and failing and blaming it on your group being scrubs, don’t you think that maybe if you played a class choice/group comp more optimal to the fight, they might have succeeded? Because while no composition is REQUIRED to clear any content, there’s certainly ones that are better. Why would you want to do a bajillion core phases on KC when you could just play your tempest and bring a PS and a Chrono and a Druid for max buffs instead of trying to 10 man condi-rev it?
I should add that this is speaking strictly from a PUG perspective…
It’s absolutely a player self made conundrum…. that’s why every time some one references it for Anet as a justification to evaluate the game, it’s an absolutely ridiculous suggestion. The game was designed so you don’t need optimal comps … and you CAN succeed not using it, so the idea that anything needs balance around an optimal comp makes no sense whatsoever.
Anyways, lots of condi changes this patch anyways. I know it will matter little to the saltsellers here but nonetheless, people that are a little more objective will acknowledge the improvement.