The mechanics could be tweaked so that the heal could be more front-loaded, but you’re not going to get a 1 to 1 conversion. If you look through the existing healing skills and adjust for other factors, there’s usually a tradeoff between ‘sustained’ healing (which does more healing over time) and more emergency-based healing, which can save your life with proper timing, but at the cost of having a long recharge before it can do it again. Enchanted Daggers currently sits in the first category – giving it more frontloaded healing would come at the cost of the total healing gained.
All balance around revenant healing also needs to considered in the context that the revenant can drop two heals back-to-back. A Jalis heal followed by a Shiro heal, for instance, is over 10k healing on a 30s recharge, which also happens to clear conditions and contribute to dealing damage in return as well. Even considering that roughly half of that healing is delayed and, yes, can be further delayed by use of preventative measures (although with my experience of PvP, I don’t feel as if they’re as prevalent as you imply – sure, your heal can be hindered by the enemy going on the defensive, but a lot of those defenses also means that at least one enemy isn’t attacking back and thus you might not need the healing so quickly) – I don’t think many other professions can match that healing output from their slot-6 skill alone, at least not without the same or greater weakness against being blocked/evaded/etc. The delay IS part of the balancing, and if it gets removed then something else will be removed as well. Personally, I prefer it as a skill that rewards using it early rather than waiting until crisis moment, particularly since you have two legends and can legendswap if you need a heal with different characteristics.
As it is, Enchanted Daggers seems like it’s a bit of a throwback to Battle Scars – you get lifesteal for a time, except it’s not scaled according to the biggest hit you’ve taken (making it much easier to balance). Meditation of the Reaper would be a weird one, since it essentially created a shield that could absorb a certain amount of damage and would heal (rather, lifesteal) proportional to the remaining strength of the shield when the time was up. That’s something that I think would be a lot harder to balance in PvP than Enchanted Daggers. It’s a different skill in name and in the precise effect, but Shiro got all of his healing from lifesteal in the past, and Enchanted Daggers follows this trend.
I’m one of the folks who wanted to see the previous interval cut in half and it has happened for the upcoming BWE. However, thinking about it more deeply, Shiro’s kit isn’t really about survivability in general which is why I wanted to see some form condition transfer in his heal skill as condition transfer has always been part of Shiro’s skills.
Having a heal skill that can be used offensively is fine—provided that the healing component is adequate and can reduce pressure on the user. Currently, enchanted daggers just doesn’t seem to do the job.
Ignoring all other sources of healing and traits and comparing them simply by trained healing skills. A list of the easier ones to take into comprasion;
Revenant – Jalis+Shiro in current state;
-Jalis – 5526hp (was buffed by 20%), cures 3 conditions and provides 2sec retal for each of them. 184hp/s, 30cd
-Shiro – Assuming we will land all daggers, no poison, no retal on – 6488hp, 5148damage. 216hp/s, 30cd
Total; 12014hp – 400hp/s, cures 3 conditions, 5148 damage.
Howered in combat its not really accurate as you wont use both off cd back to back drastically reducing hp/s due to dual heal nature, retal which will also reduce healing from daggers by ~200 and so on.. It wasnt rare for me to pop up Shiro heal, then 10-15sec later pop Jalis in which case hp/s drops to about 338hp/s, assuming you were attacking someone who had 2k power and retal up, we will end up with ~298hp/s. And now if you also wont proc all daggers..its getting quite bad, and it wont be rare to not proc all of them as you cant really trade damage to stay up alive+blnd,s kiting and so on..
Not all that great, huh? Enchanted daggers could be changed to heal for 6,5k on initial and it would be balanced still
(edited by skowcia.8257)
The Berserker Heal is hilariously far more powerful than the shiro one.
For 6 seconds you heal for 50% of your damage (since a zerker banner warrior with fury up will pretty much be crit capped).
50% of a 14-20k 100blades, followed by whirlwind and evicerate is obscene healing.
Hell, just from autoattacking with mainhand axe or greatsword a warrior will heal far more than Shiro’s daggers and in a shorter time window as well.
Ignoring all other sources of healing and traits and comparing them simply by trained healing skills. A list of the easier ones to take into comprasion;
- Healing signet – 362 hp/s. 0 Input needed from user
Revenant – Jalis+Shiro in current state;
-Jalis – 5526hp (was buffed by 20%), cures 3 conditions and provides 2sec retal for each of them. 184hp/s, 30cd
-Shiro – Assuming we will land all daggers, no poison, no retal on – 6488hp, 5148damage. 216hp/s, 30cd
Total; 12014hp – 400hp/s, cures 3 conditions, 5148 damage.
Howered in combat its not really accurate as you wont use both off cd back to back drastically reducing hp/s due to dual heal nature, retal which will also reduce healing from daggers by ~200 and so on.. It wasnt rare for me to pop up Shiro heal, then 10-15sec later pop Jalis in which case hp/s drops to about 338hp/s, assuming you were attacking someone who had 2k power and retal up, we will end up with ~298hp/s. And now if you also wont proc all daggers..its getting quite bad, and it wont be rare to not proc all of them as you cant really trade damage to stay up alive+blnd,s kiting and so on..
Not all that great, huh? Enchanted daggers could be changed to heal for 6,5k on initial and it would be balanced still
This is missing adrenal healing, which warriors often take in conjunction with healing signet.
Either way, the berserker heal is even crazier. Take 50% of 15-20k damage in a 6 damage window and it’s an obscene heal on a low 20 sec cd. It’s more frontloaded as well as opposed to the shiro heal.
I don’t think the damage the shiro heal does justifies how backloaded the heal is.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
The Berserker Heal is hilariously far more powerful than the shiro one.
For 6 seconds you heal for 50% of your damage (since a zerker banner warrior with fury up will pretty much be crit capped).
50% of a 14-20k 100blades, followed by whirlwind and evicerate is obscene healing.
Hell, just from autoattacking with mainhand axe or greatsword a warrior will heal far more than Shiro’s daggers and in a shorter time window as well.
Ignoring all other sources of healing and traits and comparing them simply by trained healing skills. A list of the easier ones to take into comprasion;
- Healing signet – 362 hp/s. 0 Input needed from user
Revenant – Jalis+Shiro in current state;
-Jalis – 5526hp (was buffed by 20%), cures 3 conditions and provides 2sec retal for each of them. 184hp/s, 30cd
-Shiro – Assuming we will land all daggers, no poison, no retal on – 6488hp, 5148damage. 216hp/s, 30cd
Total; 12014hp – 400hp/s, cures 3 conditions, 5148 damage.
Howered in combat its not really accurate as you wont use both off cd back to back drastically reducing hp/s due to dual heal nature, retal which will also reduce healing from daggers by ~200 and so on.. It wasnt rare for me to pop up Shiro heal, then 10-15sec later pop Jalis in which case hp/s drops to about 338hp/s, assuming you were attacking someone who had 2k power and retal up, we will end up with ~298hp/s. And now if you also wont proc all daggers..its getting quite bad, and it wont be rare to not proc all of them as you cant really trade damage to stay up alive+blnd,s kiting and so on..
Not all that great, huh? Enchanted daggers could be changed to heal for 6,5k on initial and it would be balanced still
This is missing adrenal healing, which warriors often take in conjunction with healing signet.
Either way, the berserker heal is even crazier. Take 50% of 15-20k damage in a 6 damage window and it’s an obscene heal on a low 20 sec cd. It’s more frontloaded as well as opposed to the shiro heal.
I don’t think the damage the shiro heal does justifies how backloaded the heal is.
You can be also kited for 6 seconds and get jack kitten out of that heal.
Nobody serious is gonna replace HealSig with that for PvP.
The Berserker Heal is hilariously far more powerful than the shiro one.
For 6 seconds you heal for 50% of your damage (since a zerker banner warrior with fury up will pretty much be crit capped).
50% of a 14-20k 100blades, followed by whirlwind and evicerate is obscene healing.
Hell, just from autoattacking with mainhand axe or greatsword a warrior will heal far more than Shiro’s daggers and in a shorter time window as well.
Ignoring all other sources of healing and traits and comparing them simply by trained healing skills. A list of the easier ones to take into comprasion;
- Healing signet – 362 hp/s. 0 Input needed from user
Revenant – Jalis+Shiro in current state;
-Jalis – 5526hp (was buffed by 20%), cures 3 conditions and provides 2sec retal for each of them. 184hp/s, 30cd
-Shiro – Assuming we will land all daggers, no poison, no retal on – 6488hp, 5148damage. 216hp/s, 30cd
Total; 12014hp – 400hp/s, cures 3 conditions, 5148 damage.
Howered in combat its not really accurate as you wont use both off cd back to back drastically reducing hp/s due to dual heal nature, retal which will also reduce healing from daggers by ~200 and so on.. It wasnt rare for me to pop up Shiro heal, then 10-15sec later pop Jalis in which case hp/s drops to about 338hp/s, assuming you were attacking someone who had 2k power and retal up, we will end up with ~298hp/s. And now if you also wont proc all daggers..its getting quite bad, and it wont be rare to not proc all of them as you cant really trade damage to stay up alive+blnd,s kiting and so on..
Not all that great, huh? Enchanted daggers could be changed to heal for 6,5k on initial and it would be balanced still
This is missing adrenal healing, which warriors often take in conjunction with healing signet.
Either way, the berserker heal is even crazier. Take 50% of 15-20k damage in a 6 damage window and it’s an obscene heal on a low 20 sec cd. It’s more frontloaded as well as opposed to the shiro heal.
I don’t think the damage the shiro heal does justifies how backloaded the heal is.
You can be also kited for 6 seconds and get jack kitten out of that heal.
Nobody serious is gonna replace HealSig with that for PvP.
You talk as if being kited is something only warriors deal with. The shiro heal is just the same, people can kite you so you can’t hit them in melee and trigger your daggers.
There’s no reason why a warrior isn’t running longbow either whether they be power or condi spec, so the kiting question is irrelevant.
In WvW with the metric ton of aoe berserker is poised to do now, popping that heal will probably cap him on health all the time.
Same goes for team fights in spvp. Signet is susceptible to burst, this heal not so much.
So they have a choice of the two strongest heals in the game…
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Similar problem exists for glints heal. Still would like to see a skill pool to pick another heal depending on the game mode / situation
What I’m hearing here is that 400hp/sec is actually pretty good, particularly since the revenant also has the potential to be running traits that boost healing. (Assassin’s Annihilation being of particular note, since it’s a potential additional 300 healing/per/second with an additional potential 250 DPS.) As a rule, professions with good healing from other sources tend to have weaker healing in the slot 6 skill (I notice, for instance, that guardian and elementalist healing skills don’t feature in your list…)
Yes, odds are that the two healing skills aren’t going to be used back-to-back: but most other professions aren’t going to blow their healing three seconds into a fight either (unless they really need to) so it’s going to come out to about the same in an extended fight regardless
I’m also getting a strong impression of double standards here. Poison keeps being brought up, but poison reduces healing for everyone (until the condition changes, that was basically what it was for – the damage ticks were negligible for a condition that was capped at one application), it’s hardly a problem only for Enchanted Daggers. Retaliation isn’t healing reduction, it’s damage: it’s also going to affect any other heal based on dealing damage (such as Litany of Wrath, Signet of Vampirism, and the berserker heal). Anybody who heals and then resumes attacking is going to open themselves up to Retaliation – Enchanted Daggers is probably more vulnerable because you have to attack to get the full benefit, but on the other hand, you can also choose to delay by a few seconds which other heal-on-attack healing skills can’t afford, and from another point of view Enchanted Daggers can also be seen as a form of mitigation.
Going by that logic we should also add up adrenal health for warrior, shouts that also heal. Multiple blast finishers for engi and his water fields, high access to regen.
Life force on necro skills (lets not forget that ds is their second bar and thats how they “heal”), and thats leaving us with mes and thief -idk about mes, but thief can spec for healing in stealth.
Power rev is not even close to all that stuff. I didnt added ele and guard for obvious reason. You cant really calculate amount of hp/s on ele from signet (and necros) as it all depends on the player. Eles also have access to water for healing at all times.
We could howered give ether renewal as a example which has 391hp/s and removes 8 conditions.. Just 15cd. But its not popular due to long casttime.
Guardian just like ele also has multiple sources to healing. In the end they are not far from each other. Litany of wrath thought, when trained provides 8 second of fury, 4k hp and if you also picked up smite trait, thats add up to 6k+damage and 1 condi cleanse. I use it and i actually can recover quite decent amount of hp without many issues at range ~12k. Yes, in pvp. Not bad for 24cd skill.
As for why poison is mentioned so many times.. Unlike other professions, you have basically 0 condi cleanse outside of Jalis, and you cant deal with condi at all in the end. Thats not a problem for rest if they willing to spec into condi cleanses, something revenant lack right now.
And while retal can indeed reduce incoming healing to litany/new war heal, they also gain benefit of it. All damage, let it be condi, power or from retal on guards contribute to healing they gain in the end as retal counts to dealed damage. Now as a revenant you dont gain that advantage from retal, do you?
I wouldn’t mind making it a full heal at start, then 6 daggers only doing damage at any interval you want.
I don’t know if it fits thematically however.
A mid ground could be make 4k starting heal, then 800 damage daggers siphoning 50% of the dealt damage, or something like that. Even 1s icd would be ok this way, since the main source of heal is already granted.
4k initial, then 600 per dagger. Make these daggers unblockable and count them as a “pet” or something to prevent retal damage otherwise keep em at 800.
By far Mallyx heal is still the best healing skill we have tho, espesially when you fight 2 necros at once. Ez healing up to 11k if they transfer condi…
4k initial heal 500 per dagger transfer a condition per dagger ta-da
I disagree with condi transfer on healing skill. It breaks a bit synergy with Mallyx and in the end its not all that useful either. I rather have it on impossible odds so i can decide when i want to keep or transfer them. After all come on, it has 10 energy activate cost and drains 10energy/sec, it wouldnt be overpowered if it could transfer condi.
Some condi transfer sounds nice. But per dagger would be 6 condis transfered which is really strong. With 4 daggers it would still transfer more then Necros Weapon skills (Staff 4 and Dagger 4)
Also the necro has way to much condi transfer in my opinion with both weapon skills and the sigil. It’s such a hard conter to any condition class.
As I would really like to see something like that on Shiro, because it is similar to gw1 skills of shiro. I don’t belive in such a change because it already was stated that rev won’t get more condi remove.
As stated before 400hp/s is fine. (Ranger heal skills are way to strong atm, specially in combination with perma reg and sigil that gives reg) Yeah you have to hit all of the daggers. But even if you don’t i think this will be fine. Specially you got some more traits that also give health. (@Devs: If i remember correctly those didn’t scale with healing power, which should be changed)
Retalitation is a problem yes but I don’t think that this will be such a big deal. Decreasing the amount of daggers to 4 and increase siphon still wouldn’t be a spike, because it’s dealt over 4sec. Else it could be a venom like the thiefs one so its only 1 attack instead of two to get the healing and retalitation wont proc twice.
And yes a bigger initial heal would be gread, decrease siphon health gain to compensate.
PS: Duration/CD on thiefs heal venom is 30sec duration to 40 sec cd.
So the duration could be 20sec on Enchanted Dagger with 30sec cd.
The point was that there is more to survivability than the slot-6 heals. There’s also other heals, damage reduction, damage prevention, simply not being where the damage lands, condition removal, base health and armour, defensive CC use, and it has to be said, being able to finish off an enemy before they can finish you off.
It’s hard to theorycraft the exact impact of all of these, but they do tend to result in some of the professions with the most inefficient or simply awkward slot-6 heals actually having the best survivability. A revenant with Shiro seems to be doing well on all of these counts except removing damaging conditions: the potential for multiple evade and/or block frames through weapon skills, an evade back ability that also removed mobility-hindering conditions, highest base armour, good base health, Jade Winds, and whatever the other legend offers.
The revenant has had a big boost to its survivability since we last played it – an additional evade skill unless you’re wielding mace, for one, and lowering the ICD on Enchanted Daggers is essentially a buff in itself. I think it’s reasonable to see how that works out before clamouring for what would effectively be a complete rework of the skill.
However, one thing I think needs to be made absolutely clear: a delay on the full effect of a skill is part of the balancing of the skill. We are not going to get Enchanted Daggers turned into a more frontloaded heal without paying some form of price for it. It might be a reduction in the total heal, a reduction or removal of the damage component, or a loss of some other buff that we might have received instead, such as more condition removal or resistance. Personally, I like the current theme and functionality of the skill, and would rather see Shiro being balanced around the current mechanic rather than the mechanic being completely reworked. I also think there’s room for a healing skill that rewards being used at 75% rather than at 25%, particularly on a profession that has the option to swap legends for a more emergency-oriented heal.
(As an aside, regarding comparison with Litany of Wrath and similar skills – those are high-risk-high-reward. Enchanted Daggers can’t get the heights of damage they can, sure… but Enchanted Daggers is also a bit more forgiving about not requiring that the damage be dealt in the next 6 seconds, requiring multiple targets and saving up skills for a high-damage spike to get the best effect, and generally less subject to an opponent recognising that the heal is likely to be followed by a spike. A shiro revenant can wait out a few seconds of damage prevention or defensive CC or otherwise play cautiously for a bit and still get the full healing – a Litany of Wrath guardian can’t. Most PvP-relevant builds can buy a few seconds of you-can’t-hurt-me one way or another – a well-timed Signet of Stone activation would make a Litany of Wrath guardian cry – but it’d take more than ten seconds to deny Enchanted Daggers. A Shiro revenant with offhand sword also has the option to abduct a single target and beat on them with less risk of potential intervention by the target’s allies.)
TI also think there’s room for a healing skill that rewards being used at 75% rather than at 25%, particularly on a profession that has the option to swap legends for a more emergency-oriented heal
As the fight drags out you ends up with lower and lower hp. If you happen to have 25% hp already, second healing skill on cd and all you are left with is..Shiro “heal”..then youre doomed. Simple as that. Gg wp. That healing also makes revenant much easier to focus in teamfights as they cant bring their hp back in one second.
We are not going to get Enchanted Daggers turned into a more frontloaded heal without paying some form of price for it. It might be a reduction in the total heal, a reduction or removal of the damage componenta
Why we would pay some “extra” price for it? The hp/s is already terrible low as it is. The interval also prevents chaining that healing with sword 3 to get all procs off without risking taking damage from opponents.. If damage is a problem then get rid of it along with it interval. Simple as that.
And as i said, Mallyx heal alone can outshine Shiro+Jalis together when timed well. That was a one of the reasons why condi rev was doing quite well (even with this terrible shiro heal) as Mallyx could carry it while also providing high resistance uptime and load of blinds. That not something we will ever see on Jalis+Shiro combo.
well-timed Signet of Stone activation would make a Litany of Wrath guardian cry
You still can gain 6k hp by pressing that button when trained. You still gain extra healing from retal. I dont see how that can make any guardian cry. Press f3 for protection and facetank rapid..not much damage will be taken.
As the fight drags out you ends up with lower and lower hp. If you happen to have 25% hp already, second healing skill on cd and all you are left with is..Shiro “heal”..then youre doomed. Simple as that. Gg wp. That healing also makes revenant much easier to focus in teamfights as they cant bring their hp back in one second.
On the other hand, used in advance, it’s good for delaying the point at which you get to 25%… and you’ve got your other heal skill on your other legend. Revenant healing skills HAVE to be balanced on the basis that you have the other one in reserve. However, this means that the devs have the opportunity to make them more specialised, since the revenant player can have one heal skill for one situation and another for a different situation.
Why we would pay some “extra” price for it? The hp/s is already terrible low as it is. The interval also prevents chaining that healing with sword 3 to get all procs off without risking taking damage from opponents.. If damage is a problem then get rid of it along with it interval. Simple as that.
Because balance. If Enchanted Daggers is balanced currently, than it would need to lose something in exchange for what it gains by having a faster response time. If it does need a buff, a buff by frontloading it (as well as removing some of its uniqueness) will be in lieu of some other buff.
And as i said, Mallyx heal alone can outshine Shiro+Jalis together when timed well. That was a one of the reasons why condi rev was doing quite well (even with this terrible shiro heal) as Mallyx could carry it while also providing high resistance uptime and load of blinds. That not something we will ever see on Jalis+Shiro combo.
In ideal circumstances, yes, Mallyx has a big heal. On the other hand, if you have that many conditions, either you’ve just made a good play and you deserve the benefits, or you’ve got a lot of people on you and that big heal may not save you (especially if they have a means of stripping any Resistance you may have running).
You still can gain 6k hp by pressing that button when trained. You still gain extra healing from retal. I dont see how that can make any guardian cry. Press f3 for protection and facetank rapid..not much damage will be taken.
Which requires a specific pair of specialisations to pull off. Granted, they’re popular ones in the current meta, but that’s still a lot of investment to compare against Enchanted Daggers without any trait investment at all.
There is one problem..enchanted daggers are not balanced, its junk. Why it would have to lose something when you can pair Mallyx and Jalis heal and get 2 healing skills on demand? Im really curious about your answer. If daggers are balanced now, does it mean that jalis+mallyx heal are unbalanced and needs to be toned down? Assuming by logic, yes.
To get high hp from Mallyx heal is not really a problem either – it just depends on who you face. If you face non condi build you wont get a lot of healing as they dont apply many conditions naturally.. Howered if you face necro 1v1 that has access to transfer, you can get 10 conditions from him alone. Thats some serious boost to our sustain and you dont really have to be “focused”
What you can get from meta signet necro
-torment
-bleeding
-poison
-immobilize
-weakness
-chill
-vul
-cripple
-confusion
-blind
Thats up to extra 9200hp on top of base 3,3k. Thanks necros!
I should have mentioned that selfapplied weakness counts towards our healing skill. Due to this in reality Mallyx heal for 4k base.
I’m in agreement with Draxynnic for once. I think removing the way Shiro heal works now is a terrible idea. I’d hate to lose the extra damage from the daggers. Although similar to other heals, it is definately much more unique compared to them considering it is adding extra damage to your attacks. I do think it might could use a slight bump to the initial heal or to the dagger’s heal, but not enough to have to reduce the damage to balance. I also think it could use a longer duration, but looks like Roy might already be looking into it.
I disagree with condi transfer on healing skill. It breaks a bit synergy with Mallyx and in the end its not all that useful either. I rather have it on impossible odds so i can decide when i want to keep or transfer them. After all come on, it has 10 energy activate cost and drains 10energy/sec, it wouldnt be overpowered if it could transfer condi.
The reason i suggested this is because i dont want to be forced into use mallyx to deal with conditions. The Rev has very little flexibility to it and that means months after launch it will be a very stale boring class.
It actually does not break any synergy with mallyx because you can pull off interesting combos like shiro heal legend swap to mallyx unyielding anguish-unrelenting assault.
You would in that combo apply torment and cripple to your foe. Enduring conditions is a nice idea but super impractical in the world of Cele signet necro.
Using both shiro and mallyx for pvp should be a choice. The last thing i want is another D/D ele situation where you have other weapons and options but they are not viable/desirable.
First because as you say, Mallyx is situational. Sure, in the right situation, it can be awesome, but if your opponent has managed to avoid giving you lots of conditions to much on, it can still end up as a pretty weak heal. You can apply a bunch of extra conditions to yourself using other Mallyx skills, but that’s a) energy-intensive, and b) if you’ve just swapped to Mallyx because you need a strong heal, any time you spend self-applying conditions is further delay to getting your heal off. (Furthermore, all those conditions can turn around and bite you if your resistance drops.)
Second, even if we accepted your premise that Enchanted Daggers is weak in its current state to begin with (I don’t), stance skills are balanced as a package. Mallyx has an issue in that it’s condition-reliant on a profession that otherwise doesn’t really do conditions: there’s only one weaponset (mace/axe) that dishes out significant damaging conditions at all, and none of the currently available alternative legends will help you dish out more conditions (the best option might be Shiro, since Impossible Odds can help to deal out the conditions from mace/axe faster). So taking Mallyx means that you’re likely having to make some form of compromise with your gear, be it accepting that your conditions are going to be weak and running power, going full condition and accepting that you won’t hit as hard when you have to resort to more power-oriented options, or some midpoint between the two.
Shiro, on the other hand, is a legend that goes pretty much with everything, and all of the skills look useful for PvP. A rollback that stunbreaks and removes movement-inhibiting conditions that you can use as long as you have the energy in reserve? Yes please. A charge skill that allows your next attacks to ignore some forms of active defences? Also good, just make sure you pick your attacks. Quickness on demand, ‘nuff said. Area stun? Worst-case scenario you strip some stability, best case scenario in a team fight, that gets some enemies dead that you wouldn’t have got otherwise. It is an offensive legend, so taking it naturally means you have less defences (apart from not being in a place to get hit and/or defensive use of crowd control) but the skills have a lot to offer in sPvP.
What if we change a little bit the heal mechanic, so if the enemy dodges/blinds/blocks the daggers he avoids the siphon damage but we can still have our siphon heal? Like this we have a more reliable heal but still offers counter-play when talking about the damage of the daggers
Another possibility could be that the dagger is only expended if it actually hits. I’m not sure if this is already the mechanic or not, but if it isn’t, it probably should be. That way, blocks/blinds/evades etc can delay the healing, but can’t stop it entirely unless they can manage to avoid hits until the duration expires.
It’s fine. Interval is now 0,5s and it also does quite a lot of dmg opposed to warrior’s. It’s fine how it is. Maybe a bit more inc on initial heal.
The Berserker Heal is hilariously far more powerful than the shiro one.
For 6 seconds you heal for 50% of your damage (since a zerker banner warrior with fury up will pretty much be crit capped).
50% of a 14-20k 100blades, followed by whirlwind and evicerate is obscene healing.
Hell, just from autoattacking with mainhand axe or greatsword a warrior will heal far more than Shiro’s daggers and in a shorter time window as well.
Ignoring all other sources of healing and traits and comparing them simply by trained healing skills. A list of the easier ones to take into comprasion;
- Healing signet – 362 hp/s. 0 Input needed from user
Revenant – Jalis+Shiro in current state;
-Jalis – 5526hp (was buffed by 20%), cures 3 conditions and provides 2sec retal for each of them. 184hp/s, 30cd
-Shiro – Assuming we will land all daggers, no poison, no retal on – 6488hp, 5148damage. 216hp/s, 30cd
Total; 12014hp – 400hp/s, cures 3 conditions, 5148 damage.
Howered in combat its not really accurate as you wont use both off cd back to back drastically reducing hp/s due to dual heal nature, retal which will also reduce healing from daggers by ~200 and so on.. It wasnt rare for me to pop up Shiro heal, then 10-15sec later pop Jalis in which case hp/s drops to about 338hp/s, assuming you were attacking someone who had 2k power and retal up, we will end up with ~298hp/s. And now if you also wont proc all daggers..its getting quite bad, and it wont be rare to not proc all of them as you cant really trade damage to stay up alive+blnd,s kiting and so on..
Not all that great, huh? Enchanted daggers could be changed to heal for 6,5k on initial and it would be balanced still
This is missing adrenal healing, which warriors often take in conjunction with healing signet.
Either way, the berserker heal is even crazier. Take 50% of 15-20k damage in a 6 damage window and it’s an obscene heal on a low 20 sec cd. It’s more frontloaded as well as opposed to the shiro heal.
I don’t think the damage the shiro heal does justifies how backloaded the heal is.
You can be also kited for 6 seconds and get jack kitten out of that heal.
Nobody serious is gonna replace HealSig with that for PvP.
You talk as if being kited is something only warriors deal with. The shiro heal is just the same, people can kite you so you can’t hit them in melee and trigger your daggers.
There’s no reason why a warrior isn’t running longbow either whether they be power or condi spec, so the kiting question is irrelevant.
In WvW with the metric ton of aoe berserker is poised to do now, popping that heal will probably cap him on health all the time.
Same goes for team fights in spvp. Signet is susceptible to burst, this heal not so much.
So they have a choice of the two strongest heals in the game…
Phase traversal has 1200 range to close the gap. Daggers have 1200 range, so you can switch to hammer and still have them proc from 1200 range :P
Enchanted Daggers are a lo easier to pull of than Zerk heal. They also changed PT to work like teleport so even if out of range it will still move you 1200.
Shiro rev won’t be that easy to kite :P
I will take Shiro heal over Zerk heal any day of the week.
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