Guild Wars 2

Gulesave.5073:

Linnael.1069:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Thanks for the feedback. This is definitely the type of stuff we are looking for, keep it coming.

Kronos.2560:

A few skills are unable to be used unless in combat. ex
-Vengeful Hammers
-Energy Expulsion (seems to require 51 energy) kind of strange…
-Embrace the Darkness
.. I think i forgot some but those work for now.

Not sure if these would count as bugs or maybe its supposed to be like that. Either way would be nice if they get fixed. Hopefully they fix them, kind of annoying to have to sit the and summon hammers after the surprise attack has happened, instead of prepping for it.

The energy mechanic is kind of weird when out of combat right now and that’s something we’ve already addressed internally. In the next iteration you’ll see it’ll have the updated energy bar.

Basically, you can’t use the upkeep skills right now because you don’t have the upkeep to spend to use them because when you are out of combat energy upkeep drops from 5 per second base to 0 when you are resting at 50% energy. In the new version you will always be at 5 per second base, it’ll instead just cap energy at 50% out of combat. Which should solve a lot of the weirdness.

The energy expulsion issue is probably a bug as it should be costing 50 energy.

Keep it at 51. You’d be able to throw out a bunch of healing fragments to always start fights with them around, and still have regen’d your energy by the time you entered combat.

You can still do that at 50. One of the problems with 51 is that you can’t get rid of the tablet out of combat without swapping legends or moving out of tether range.

You cannot do that now. You would be able to at 50, and its a stupid mechanic that’s basically just “start every fight with a bunch of healing orbs, if you want to deal with the resummon”.

Like what did you even think I was talking about?

My only complaint, and I’m sure someone has posted this already, is that I wish Anet would decide for the skills to have either CDs or energy bar but not both. It’s somewhat frustrating to want to do something and that skill can’t be performed unless both the CD is gone AND the energy bar is full enough.

Also, I noticed something that might be a bug with the tablet and that is if you are killed and then resurrected the tablet disappears but doesn’t reset on your utility bar. I have to press [Energy Expulsion] to make the tablet reset in order to use it again.

Please look into this Anet, and thanks for the great work so far on Revenant! \o/

KronosBaelfire.6289:

…
Also, I noticed something that might be a bug with the tablet and that is if you are killed and then resurrected the tablet disappears but doesn’t reset on your utility bar. I have to press [Energy Expulsion] to make the tablet reset in order to use it again.

Please look into this Anet, and thanks for the great work so far on Revenant! \o/

Got the same bug with the tablet! It was very annoying. To be able to summon the tablet again I had to press [Energy Expulsion] or swap the stances back and forth. Please Anet, fix this bug, ventari is going to be my future Monk/Cleric-thingy

Here are my thoughts concerning mostly problems with revenants (I really like Revenant and there are a lot of good things about it, so plz dont misunderstand this post):

1. Hammer and Mace skills are generally far too slow. It makes those weapons nearly unusable. Staff however is wonderful in this regard, so you have a good orientation where the other weapons should be in terms of speed. The other option is to increase the damage of hammer and mace significantly.

2. The Taunt ability in the dwarven stance cost to much (50% energy is just too much). It should be around 30 %.

3. Overall the Revenant lacks on damage, especially for spvp. I really hope the last missing normal traitline is a classic critical strikes trait line, with iconic talents like “Bleeds on crit” (very important for a condition variant of the revenant) and maybe a talent like “20% chance on crit to deal the same damge again” (double strike) to adress the lack of damage.

4. The centaur stance needs a complete rework. It should be less dependant on the tablet. Right now it feels like a classical healer, which doesnt fit gw2 and makes it completely useless. The moving of the tablet just feels so strange and will never be viable in any area of the game (unless you make holy trinity encounters in pve). My suggestion would be: The heal skill summons a tablet, which surrounds you: healing allies and you for a bit. The Elite lets it explode and heals everyone for around 5k and knocks enemies back (basically what it does right now). Maybe make an utility spell which moves the tablet from around yourself to around an ally.

5. I kittening like the staff, plz dont change it

6. A dps soul is definetly required!!!!

We had energy and cooldowns in Guild Wars 1, and nobody objected then…

The weapon skills also use such a small amount of energy that all it really does is slow your recharge if you don’t have a sustained spell up. If you do, it’ll drain the effect faster, and if you’re just about to be forced to drop out entirely you won’t be able to use weapon skills then. In general, though, energy management is simply part of the profession.

Gulesave.5073:

I am very much on board with letting each weapon function as both melee and ranged. (I posted the same idea elsewhere before seeing it here.)

I don’t think it should be tied to specific legends, since that seems to take the choice out of the player’s hands unnecessarily. Let’s face it, revenant already has enough of that going on.

Either bind the swap to the normal weapon swap key, or tether the modes to the legend slots or be an option selectable via traits. The slot option would at least let you choose which legend to bind to which attack mode, but I still personally prefer having it on the weapon swap key, for the sake of bringing some much-needed versatility.

So, have each weapon have a melee mode and a ranged mode?

Could work. You could use the regular weaponswap key to swap modes, or bind it to F3. The revenant would still have less build versatility because it’s still relying on one weaponset for all its weapon skills, like the elementalist, instead of being able to choose the melee and ranged sets independently, but at least it can swap.

Right now, part of what makes mace/axe good is that it does have some versatility – if you need stand-off capability you can Searing Fissure. Hammer isn’t just ranged, it’s a ranged weapon with a significant drop-off in DPS if the target isn’t at 800-1200 range.

My idea for improvement: Get rid of displacement.

It was annoying for me when I was just playing solo in maps, and it will be even more annoying to party members. Knockbacks and pulls are annoying in groups but are at least predictable. If the targeting system in this game were better and we had the option to “move to target automatically upon attack” like most games, it might be okay, but we don’t.

Hammer skills are too high in their cast times and damage is way too low.

As usual, there are a great many people who have posted with great deal of detail and thought. Thus I have only some rather random thoughts and impressions to provide for now.

- Comparing the other two professions that are not allowed weapon swap capabilities: when I play staff elementalist in a dungeon I have Lightning Hammer to use for melee/cleave scenarios. I don’t play engi often but flamethrower seems to well for that type of scenario. Revenant in its current form doesn’t seem to offer that type of flexibility.

- I don’t know that weapon swap is needed if more utility skills are added which provides something akin to a conjured environmental weapon and/or kit options. Conjuring a weapon/kit from the legend being channeled seems like a pretty cool idea to me, at least (imagination running wild and will stop with that for now ^^). The presence of the Change Skills arrow offers some hope that maybe you have more in store than just 3 dedicated skills for slots 7,8 and 9.

- Another thought for more utility options was to change the F1 swap to a F1-F2-F3 menu where the player can just pick which legend to channel, similar to the elementalist attunements.

- Staff is fun to play as a pole-arm style weapon. Mixing it up with some range capabilities would be nice. Hammer was a bit, to borrow from someone else, “clunky.” I think the mace/axe was my favorite but being stuck in melee doesn’t seem optimal running around Orr.

- With the upcoming changes to defiance, assuming it will still happen, the lack of CC seems a bit disconcerting. The ‘break bar’ (forget if it has an official title/name) appears to be a significant change and having ranged cc skills seems a good idea. There is obviously more to come for the revenant, but I thought it worth a mention here since Jalis was the only legend that offered such a skill, from my cursory fact check.

Other than that, for the time being, thanks for the chance to check it out and allowing us to provide some feedback on it. Everyone at anet is doing fantastic work redefining a genre that needs it so much!! Looking forward to what else you have in the works, keep up the great work.

It’d be nice if the legends had a passive or on active effect while being attuned.

Switching back and forth between revenant and guardian, it was striking how much better off the guardian is at basically everything.

If I can’t swap weapons my one weapon needs to do more. If I can’t pick and choose utilities they need to be stronger in their selected area. I found it hard to get any form of rotation that made any sense.

I would love to have some complete builds presented along with the logic behind them, because honestly I found little that seemed to have any strong synergy.

Specific complaint: activation times are terrible. Mace #2 – aargh. And the dwarf elite with almost 3 second activation…

- if the class doesn’t get weapon swap then they need more utlities. I would suggest at least 5 per legend to let players mix and match within each legend or maybe a 2 elite skill for the legends. It was really hard to adjusted to different situation period on top of there simple is not enough variety to encourage to play this class often. (I just feel like the class suffers being able to support enough of different peoples play styles without this)
- I know that they are going to get more weapons (or at least I hope) but they need more weapons to support variety and different play styles.

Currently about half the revenant energy regen comes from constant in-combat recovery, and the other half from legend swapping (assuming you spend everything, then swap to 50% every 10 seconds). This encourages a playstyle where you need to constantly swap back and forth between legends to get full benefit from the class.

This doesn’t make much sense to me, when legends are clearly intended to work on different playstyles and scenarios. For example it would rarely make sense to swap between mallyx and ventari every 10 seconds – yet failing to do so will make you miss up to half your potential energy. This consequently pushes people to select legends that work in similar combat situation, instead of seeking versatility.

I’d suggest increasing the baseline energy regeneration, and reducing the energy gained from legend swapping – up to possibly eliminating the gain from swap entirely. This would make it more viable to actually pick -different- legends, and use them to adjust to changing tactical situation (e.g. dps vs party support).

Possibly something like, increasing the normal recovery from 5/s to 7-8/s, and maybe making one of the invocation traits give between 10 and 20 energy on legend swap.

I was able to play with this a bit on Friday.

Here are my thoughts:

~Ventari’s tablet. Its a nice and beautiful idea, but it makes no sence to have this active unless you are in a group event. If you want us to have more flexability, I suggest the tablet following you while out of combat. I don’t want to have to worry about telling the tablet to follow me if im trying to head to another location.

This idea will need to be tested for other venues besides PVE though—im not really sure if that would hinder or make someone OP in PvP.

~I liked the staff but noticed pretty quickly that those healing shards don’t do much in the way of healing. It did next to nothing. If sacrificing DPS to fill a certain role, please make sure that the weapon functions as intended..make it worth my while to use that weapon

I adored the staff 5 skill though I think it may be best used when roaming^^

For the other weapons:
I specifically went with a zerker build to give myself an idea of where damage stacks up. To set up a baseline. It took my friend and I might stacking with a combo field/finisher to even come close to the damage output I should have seen. I believe there are some major damage voids here and I think that the output damage should be played with.

It shouldn’t matter what legend ive evoked. If im on zerker gear, it shouldn’t take me a good 20 seconds to take down some random spawn in orr on my own.

That said, I realize that a legend based on dps will most likely be available when its complete (Shiro, mayhap?) Hopefully the lack of dps output will iron itself out then.

I want to point out: My friend, whos playstyle is now you see me, now your dead did NOT like the rev at ALL. He got bored quickly and dropped it like a hot rock.

I play a support with a bit of DPS for a main so im a bit more tolerable but I would get annoyed pretty quick if the rev was left as is.

~~The other thing I noticed is its taking way too much time for my skills on my weapons to finish casting. Theres got to be a bit of a better balance, especially when the output of those skills isn’t worth (at the moment) the time its taking for them to charge up.

~~I agree with a lot of people here. I assume that there is not weapon swap because we can invoke legends, yes? The ele has 4 different elements to choose from. The engi a multitude of packs—which also change the 1-5 skills. At the moment, what the rev can do does not make the lack of weapon swapping worth it.

If weapon swapping is not an option, maybe having access to evoking more then 2 legends is? Just put each on an F key—like the ele has each of its elements. It may balance things out a bit if we could have access to maybe 4 legends instead of 2—especially if each legend is designed for a specific role.

tldr;
~the overall weapon outputs are weak in damage at the moment. I feel like im a bunker when im in full zerk.
~skill charging on 1-5 skills is too long and in most cases hinders me. Im a sitting duck. That’s not fun.
~lack of weapon swap doesn’t make up for what is currently there.

I was thinking on creating a new post with my ideas, but i think is better to post it here.

GENERAL IMPRESSION

As everyone has noticed, the Revenant is quite weak and there seems to be zero synergy between the specializations and skills, also the weapons are way too specialized to an specific legend, making them useless when you swap to a legend that doesn’t ‘belong’ to the weapon.

Also, there seems to be no benefit on swapping legends from the traits. For example, the mesmer and elementalist get several benefits from using F1-F4, while the revenant get nothing from it. If this mechanic will be swaping + Fn from this class, it should be a good think to swap the legends.

Weapons

Mace: By far my favorite weapon. My only concern is the lack of defense capabilities on this one. If we take the Mesmer Scepter weapon, we see that we bring lots of conditions, is a range weapon so you don’t have to be close to the target or the fight to be effective and you also get a block, which help you with enemies that try to focus on you.

Proposed Mace Change:

Searing Fissure : Reduce the cast time to 3/4.
Echoing Eruption : I would add a knockback effect on this hability, it will help to keep enemies at bay and control them.

Axe (Off Hand): I don’t feel like there needs to be a big change on this weapon, maybe increase damage and duration on chill.

Hammer: I’m a bit confused at this weapon, It’s like is lacking on all departments and is super slow.

Proposed Hammer Change:

Hammer Bolt : Reduce the cast time to 3/4
Coalescence Ruin : Increase the cooldown to 4 seconds and add 2 seconds of pulse in the affected area that apply cripple after the initial damage.
Phase Smash : Make you inmune to all damage and conditions while jumping to the targeted area.
Field of Mists : Reduce the cast time on this skill OR Make it reflect projectiles.
Drop the Hammer : Reduce the cast time to 1 second or 3/4 seconds.

Staff: This weapon is kind of interesting, i can see that it going to the right direction imho but as the other weapon it’s way too specialized.

Proposed Staff Change:

Increase the number of targets to 5 on skill 1.
Forceful Bash: Add a stack of might or 10 seconds.
Rejuvenation Assault: Heal the revenant by a small ammount, maybe by the value of 1 orb.
Punishing Sweep: Add a knock back effect on this.
Debilitating Slam: Make it a leap, and slam the ground, crippling enemies around the target area.
Surge of the Mistst: Make this ability to go to my target, not forward.
I never had the oportunity to use Warding Rift properly

Legends

I would like to talk about the stances itself, there should be some passiveness on them that make them a little more interesting.

Proposed Legends Change:

Legendary Dwarf Stance: Have a 30% chance to gain protection and retaliation for 6 seconds every time you are hit. Some internal cooldown.
Legendary Demon Stance: Have a 60% change to apply 1 stack of burning that last 5 seconds when you hit a target. Some internal cooldown.
Legendary Centaur Stance: Have a 30% chance to gain regeneration for 10 seconds every time you are hit. Some internal cooldown.

Legendary Dwarf Stance

This is supposed to be the defensive/control stance, but it doesn’t feel that way at all.

Proposed Legendary Dwarf Stance

Soothing Stone: Increase the healing of this skill, increase the duration of retaliation, reduce the casting time.
Forced Engagement: Increse the time of slow and taunt by 1 or 2 seconds.
Vengeful Hammers: Increase the damage of the hammers, add vulnerability and weakness to enemies.
“New Utility Skill 1”: Pull target towards you, stunning them for 1 second. 50 resource.
“New Utility Skill 2”: Consume 3 conditions, gaining 1 stack of might for every consumed condition. 30 resource.

Legendary Demon Stance

This is supposed to be the condition stance, but actually its more like a suicidal stance.

Proposed Legendary Demon Stance

Empowering Misery: Increase the healing of this skill.
Pain Absorption: Increase the resistance gained from 1 second to 2 seconds. Increase energy cost to 40.
“New Utility Skill 1”: Apply poison to the revenant. AoE fear for 2 seconds to enemies around. 40 resource.
“New utility Skill 2”: Gain 1 seconds of stealth for every condition on the revenant. 30 resource.

Legendary Centaur Stance

This is supposed to be the support stance, it do a decent job on that department. The biggest issue is the table.

Proposed Legendary Centaur Stance

Ventari’s Will: Remove the casting time, increase the radius to 300 or 400. Make the table to automatically move towards you when you go out of range.
Energy Expulsion: Do not destroy the table. Make the fragments explode if no one pick them, healing by a fraction in AoE.
“New Utility Skill 1”: Leap to the ventari table. 40 resource.
“New Utility Skill 2”: The table will dash to your target, knocking them back. 50 resource.

Traits

I think that the traits need a bit of a rework, we have 2 important things that needs to have more consideration in all specializations:

• The legendary swap.
• The resource management.

For example, the biggest mechanic for the mesmer is the shatter skill, so all the trait lines give different benefits for shattering. The revenant should have things like:

• A trait that cause an AoE benefit depending on the legend.
• A trait that apply a boon on you depending on the legend.
• Traits that cause conditions to your enemies when swapping.
• Trait that add more resource when you swap, 75 resource for example.

There should be more benefits when using the resource, and you guys can make it with the traits. For example:

• A trait that reduce the resource cost by 20% while under threshold.
• A trait that increase the dame while above the threshold.
• A trait that grant boons depending on the legend and resource spent (1 stack of might every 10 resource spent when on the Demon stance or 2 second of retaliation every 10 resource spent when on dwarf.)
• A trait that reduce damage taken when above threshold.

Rev needs heavy work but I really can’t comment more until it is near completion and not missing lots of things. One thing that worries me is that the vast majority of players are asking for dps buffs only and barely anyone wants the support side buffed. I thought Rev was supposed to be the ultimate support class but here everyone wants it do be the next uber dps. I want to play the rev as a viable (and wanted) support class personally….is that a bad wish? Seems like it lol.

W/e. Here’s hoping the rev in next beta is better…than…this.

Random ideas

• Add several Utility skills that are not tied to the legends that complement the revenant in a neutral way and can be used regardless of selected legend.
• Create a set of utility skills, add a F1-F3 bar with the legend skills, swap healing and elite depending on the current legend.

PVP feedback:
- too low dmg on all weapons – lowering hammer skills cast times by 50% would make rev ok.
- hammer nr.3 skill would be much more interesting if it would make char to return to the original place, but give posibility to return by clicking 3 for second time.
-Weak mobility- perma swiftness on swarf aint enough- hope Shiro stance allows blink ability.

KronosBaelfire.6289:

My only complaint, and I’m sure someone has posted this already, is that I wish Anet would decide for the skills to have either CDs or energy bar but not both.

This, if the Revenant might have a system that resembles the thief it’s going to be a huge improvement. Other issues that need te be enhanced or revisited:

• Conditions on you: When you play with a group it’s kinda frustrating that you get conditions on you to improve your damage and then a condi cleanse comes. I see Revenant as a gambler (big risk for a big reward) so what about a trait or skill that makes the conditions applied to you can’t be removed?

• DPS: Everybody said it already but I equipped mine with Mace/Axe, Scholar Runes, full zerker and sill was pretty lackluster. Guess Sword/Pistol and the Shiro legendary stance will boost it.

• Too many leaps: I know they’re hard to program and the animations are cool but if you’re gonna keep them reduce cast times. They’re pretty slow.

• Rite of the Great Dwarf: Reduce cast time. Adding retaliation would be a nice touch and will make it more useful.

• Vengeful Hammers: I loved it and was one of my decent damage sources as I tested Revenant in dungeons, was cool having the Reflexive Summon trait. What if Releasing the hammer would give you some boon or damage on release?

• Taunt: Needs to be longer. Even when traited it’s not pretty useful.

• Echoing Eruption: Reduce cast time. It’s a great skill.

• Temporal Rift: Make it pull the enemies to you.

As I said before, it has potential but needs work. I know that devs might not want to make an OP class for an expansion as it is what it usually happens on game expansions but it needs MOAR COWBELL!

NumenorLord.6539:

Guess Sword/Pistol and the Shiro legendary stance will boost it.

I thought it was going to be Sword/Sword for Shiro. Please don’t tell me they removed that!

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

NumenorLord.6539:

Guess Sword/Pistol and the Shiro legendary stance will boost it.

I thought it was going to be Sword/Sword for Shiro. Please don’t tell me they removed that!

Just asumed that because of Ritlock was always seen using pistol offhand. Don’t trust my words, Sword confirmed, Pistol is speculation from me.

NumenorLord.6539:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

NumenorLord.6539:

Guess Sword/Pistol and the Shiro legendary stance will boost it.

I thought it was going to be Sword/Sword for Shiro. Please don’t tell me they removed that!

Just asumed that because of Ritlock was always seen using pistol offhand. Don’t trust my words, Sword confirmed, Pistol is speculation from me.

I think that pistol offhand is for Warriors, no?

1. Decrease cast times
2. Increase mobility
3. Damage? Even with a new spec and Legend the numbers are the main concern, a Ranger pet can out damage a Revenant.
4. Remove healing aspects from staff or only present when traited, the staff would suit a more martial/counter theme rather than a half kitten d healing weapon.
5. The fury trait is basically useless with the current setup, it’s a chore to maintain any fury whatsoever and aside from the fury on heal the other requires a stun break
6. Regardless of what you play, swapping to a different Legend shoehorns your play style and build, unless more utility options are added for each legend which increase diversity it’s just going to be a pain in the kitten to play the class effectively as-is
7. Can’t say too much about Mace/Axe yet aside from the slow cast times. It seems both weapons are independent but maybe the 3rd skill will change with other combinations?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

NumenorLord.6539:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

NumenorLord.6539:

Guess Sword/Pistol and the Shiro legendary stance will boost it.

I thought it was going to be Sword/Sword for Shiro. Please don’t tell me they removed that!

Just asumed that because of Ritlock was always seen using pistol offhand. Don’t trust my words, Sword confirmed, Pistol is speculation from me.

I think that pistol offhand is for Warriors, no?

Unconfirmed ATM, some say psitol some others say torch. We’ll wait and see. I f you ask me it will be torch, specialization will be some kind of besieger (ok, maybe I’ve been watching Vikings a bit too much lately).

I had lots of fun playing the Rev. I see a lot of really cool potential. I felt durable as hell, but also felt kinda weak. I was running full zerk with ogre runes and felt as durable as my necro in PVT, but I also felt like i was hitting for less than my necro in PVT armor. The DPS on the more DPS oriented legend will have to be quite high to balance out the lack of DPS on the other legends. Although most of this has already been said, here is my 2 copper.

-I think the legends need more utility skills than the 3 provided for each (4-5 would be nice), because depending on the situation some become useless (like Mallyx 7 is basically useless when solo, or Jalis 9 is kinda useless when playing at range). Then we could have more flexibility. Also because since the weapon locks you into range or melee, the utilities need to make up for the lack of weapon swap. Or, like others have suggested, have each weapon act as melee or range depending on the legend invoked. This is my favorite idea, but probably the hardest for Anet to accomplish.

-If revs are going to have to juggle cool downs AND energy management, then cast times should be much much lower. Cool down should be just low enough to stop from spamming skills. Revs should be focusing on energy management not CDs. They should be able to chain different skills with abandon until the energy runs out.

-If they fix what seems to be a skill queue bug the rev is experiencing, then it might feel more fluid and less clunky, even so, the cast times need to be shortened (which might also help with the DPS problem some)

-Mallyx elite seems to only copy 1 stack of burning, instead of the whole stack.

- Jalis’s taunt skill (8?) energy cost needs to be a lot lower and the trait that increases effectiveness needs to also increase effectiveness on players (even if it is less effective than on mobs)

- The tablet should auto summon on swap or there should be non tablet utilities which change once the tablet is summoned. I also think the tablet should follow, at it’s max range, and the cast time on the move should be instant.

-Healing skills should not have an energy cost.

-Jalis elite needs to have either stability applied at cast, a decreased cast time, or an
increased duration. Like it was said earlier, cast time is too long to be reactive, but duration is too short to be proactive.

With all that said, I can’t wait to try the Rev again. I’m really hoping that it’s awesome once this class is complete and polished.

I decided to go through the existing weapon skills and change them based on my idea that every weapon should be useful to every Legend by having one property that alters depending on the Legend active at the time. Some abilities were left unchanged, while others gained added heals, buffs, or conditions based on spec. Note that this is not about final tuning, just about the concept, so don’t quibble about “too much” of this or “too little” of that, those details would get worked out, the point is the basic idea involved.

Hammer:
Hammer Bolt: Unchanged

Coalescence of ruin:
Mallyx: Each impact adds a bleed stack
Ventari: Each impact adds a regen stack
Jalis: Each impact adds a Protection stack

Phase Smash: unchanged

Field of the Mists:
Mallyx: Field is a Dark Field
Ventari: Field is a Water Field
Jalis: Field is a Light Field

Drop the Hammer:
Mallyx: Each impact adds several bleed stacks
Ventari: Each impact adds AoE heal
Jalis: Each impact adds AoE Retaliation

Mace/Axe:
Misery Swipe:
Mallyx: Final hit causes double poison stacks
Ventari: Final hit causes poison and self-Regen
Jalis: Final Hit causes poison and Resistance

Searing Fissure:
Mallyx: field causes double burning
Ventari: field causes burning and Regen
Jalis: field causes burning and Protection

Echoing Erruption: Unchanged

Frigid Blitz: Unchanged

Temporal Rift:
Mallyx: double Torment
Ventari: final pulse also heals
Jalis: final pulse also grants stability

Staff:
Rapid Swipe:
Mallyx: instead of healing orbs, procs caltrops (or similar effect)
Ventari: unchanged
Jalis: instead of healing orbs, procs Protection orbs

Punishing Sweep:
Mallyx: Procs weakness and Poison
Ventari: Double Weakness
Jalis: Procs Weakness and Retaliation

Warding Rift: Unchanged

Renewing Wave:
Mallyx: Instead of healing and removing conditions, absorbs conditions into you and applies Resistance
Ventari: unchanged
Jalis: Instead of healing and removing conditions, applies Aegis and Resistance

Surge of the Mists: Unchanged

Hammer Bolt:
- Jalis/Ventari: Unchanged
- Mallyx/Shiro: Melee attack with increased damage and cleave up to 5 targets.

+1 to the OP as I like almost all those suggestions. A big thing that I felt was needed was to have the Ventari Tablet follow with you, but I was thinking to put it in front of you like the Guardian Tomes, as if you are reading from the Tablet.

I have skimmed through a number of the forum posts, but I haven’t found or seen anything on the skills that would displace enemies in/out of the mists. Any idea what the point of that is? When my guild ran a couple of Revs in a dungeon it just made the bad guys harder for the rest of the group to position, track, or hit and didn’t seem to have any positive purpose or effect in any way. Am I missing something on that? If not then I suggest getting rid of that mess.

Ohoni.6057:

I decided to go through the existing weapon skills and change them based on my idea that every weapon should be useful to every Legend by having one property that alters depending on the Legend active at the time. Some abilities were left unchanged, while others gained added heals, buffs, or conditions based on spec. Note that this is not about final tuning, just about the concept, so don’t quibble about “too much” of this or “too little” of that, those details would get worked out, the point is the basic idea involved.

Hammer:
Hammer Bolt: Unchanged

Coalescence of ruin:
Mallyx: Each impact adds a bleed stack
Ventari: Each impact adds a regen stack
Jalis: Each impact adds a Protection stack

Phase Smash: unchanged

Field of the Mists:
Mallyx: Field is a Dark Field
Ventari: Field is a Water Field
Jalis: Field is a Light Field

Drop the Hammer:
Mallyx: Each impact adds several bleed stacks
Ventari: Each impact adds AoE heal
Jalis: Each impact adds AoE Retaliation

Mace/Axe:
Misery Swipe:
Mallyx: Final hit causes double poison stacks
Ventari: Final hit causes poison and self-Regen
Jalis: Final Hit causes poison and Resistance

Searing Fissure:
Mallyx: field causes double burning
Ventari: field causes burning and Regen
Jalis: field causes burning and Protection

Echoing Erruption: Unchanged

Frigid Blitz: Unchanged

Temporal Rift:
Mallyx: double Torment
Ventari: final pulse also heals
Jalis: final pulse also grants stability

Staff:
Rapid Swipe:
Mallyx: instead of healing orbs, procs caltrops (or similar effect)
Ventari: unchanged
Jalis: instead of healing orbs, procs Protection orbs

Punishing Sweep:
Mallyx: Procs weakness and Poison
Ventari: Double Weakness
Jalis: Procs Weakness and Retaliation

Warding Rift: Unchanged

Renewing Wave:
Mallyx: Instead of healing and removing conditions, absorbs conditions into you and applies Resistance
Ventari: unchanged
Jalis: Instead of healing and removing conditions, applies Aegis and Resistance

Surge of the Mists: Unchanged

+1

This thread however has more suggestions and many of them are to the core (no swap, energy cost, mobility): https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/My-big-Revenant-Rework/first

Dstroya.6705:

I had lots of fun playing the Rev. I see a lot of really cool potential. I felt durable as hell, but also felt kinda weak. I was running full zerk with ogre runes and felt as durable as my necro in PVT, but I also felt like i was hitting for less than my necro in PVT armor. The DPS on the more DPS oriented legend will have to be quite high to balance out the lack of DPS on the other legends. Although most of this has already been said, here is my 2 copper.

-I think the legends need more utility skills than the 3 provided for each (4-5 would be nice), because depending on the situation some become useless (like Mallyx 7 is basically useless when solo, or Jalis 9 is kinda useless when playing at range). Then we could have more flexibility. Also because since the weapon locks you into range or melee, the utilities need to make up for the lack of weapon swap. Or, like others have suggested, have each weapon act as melee or range depending on the legend invoked. This is my favorite idea, but probably the hardest for Anet to accomplish.

-If revs are going to have to juggle cool downs AND energy management, then cast times should be much much lower. Cool down should be just low enough to stop from spamming skills. Revs should be focusing on energy management not CDs. They should be able to chain different skills with abandon until the energy runs out.

-If they fix what seems to be a skill queue bug the rev is experiencing, then it might feel more fluid and less clunky, even so, the cast times need to be shortened (which might also help with the DPS problem some)

-Mallyx elite seems to only copy 1 stack of burning, instead of the whole stack.

- Jalis’s taunt skill (8?) energy cost needs to be a lot lower and the trait that increases effectiveness needs to also increase effectiveness on players (even if it is less effective than on mobs)

- The tablet should auto summon on swap or there should be non tablet utilities which change once the tablet is summoned. I also think the tablet should follow, at it’s max range, and the cast time on the move should be instant.

-Healing skills should not have an energy cost.

-Jalis elite needs to have either stability applied at cast, a decreased cast time, or an
increased duration. Like it was said earlier, cast time is too long to be reactive, but duration is too short to be proactive.

With all that said, I can’t wait to try the Rev again. I’m really hoping that it’s awesome once this class is complete and polished.

This. Also, is there a possiblity for weapon swap on the Rev? I personally would like for a weapon swap unless they make it unnecessary.

draxynnic.3719:

We had energy and cooldowns in Guild Wars 1, and nobody objected then…

The weapon skills also use such a small amount of energy that all it really does is slow your recharge if you don’t have a sustained spell up. If you do, it’ll drain the effect faster, and if you’re just about to be forced to drop out entirely you won’t be able to use weapon skills then. In general, though, energy management is simply part of the profession.

Anet could do both if they maybe split the two and have weapon skills have CDs and the legendary utilities use the energy bar. But having both even if the weapon skills only use a small amount of energy is pointless. Splitting it still achieves the classes energy purposes and doesn’t waste it on the weapon skills.

I think once the profession is done I’m getting the feeling that anyone who plays this class well will be a GWAMM with or without the title! It’s becoming a challenging profession but a fun challenge! ^.~

KronosBaelfire.6289:

My only complaint, and I’m sure someone has posted this already, is that I wish Anet would decide for the skills to have either CDs or energy bar but not both. It’s somewhat frustrating to want to do something and that skill can’t be performed unless both the CD is gone AND the energy bar is full enough.

I’m okay with this so long as the skill justifies it-if it’s noticeably more powerful that another proffession’s utility skill, it makes perfect sense for it to be this way.

One thing I discored during this beta is how confusing the revised trait system can be to a new person; I’m familiar with the other proffession’s traitlines, but I had to sit and read and think for the revenant’s. It would be nice if all proffessions’ traitlines had a tooltip if you hovered over them, explaining the general theme (eg: ‘Marksmenship focuses on dealing direct damage to the target’ and ‘Tactics is for supporting allies’ ect)

Anyway, my impression of the Revenant, in one word:

“…eh.”

I think I see what you devs have in mind but it’s not there yet by a mile (not meant to sound like a whine-I understand this is a real beta).
My impression is you’re going for a class that, instead of swapping out weapons on the fly, swaps out the utilities-because you’re locked into utilities, they should be really good, hence many of them are, like for like, stupidly more powerful than other proffessions, and giving a mana bar and a short/non existant cooldown instead of just a big cooldown is a really fun idea.

Firstly, and I’m convinced this is due to a glaring lack of the Shiro/Glint stances: the ‘power’ DPS on the class stinks. Mace with the Mallyx stance can get some pretty vicious condition damage set off, sure (more on that later) but with the weapon lineup in the beta simply running up to something and smacking it in the face to see a big number seemed impossible. I wasn’t sure about hammer as a ranged weapon, but the skills were fun and I liked them, though the auto attack of the hammer is… you can tell it’s a re-purposed melee animation.

Also, I came away with the impressions, in terms of stances, is that:
The Great Dorf (Dorf from here on) is the tanky one
The Centaur is the healing/support one
Mallyx is the condition applyer/eater

I can’t really say much about the dorf-I didn’t get to play much of the beta, in all honesty and I didn’t especially focus on him. I enjoyed the road skill however; being able to get so much reliable stability was fun.

Ventari’s is a nice idea but it’s too poor. This is a game without a dedicated healer and this is a stance that makes you try and be one. The tablet’s micomanagement is fiddle, the self heal while you’re in this stance is poor, the knockback for the elite has too much of a warmup, and the only thing I remember positively about it is the AoE condition removal being fantastic.
As this is a game designed around having no dedicated healer, the tablet’s AoE healing is naturally very poor. Because of that, it’s also just not worth bothering with. This game suffers from the same ‘problem’ that D&D 3.5 has-the best way to reduce damage isn’t actually from healing, it’s from having really good dps. In that light, the only way the tablet is going to be worth bringing is if you can negate damage people take, which means you get a dedicated healer, which undermines one of the tenants of the game.
This is a rather roundabout way of saying that as well as the healing, or even just instead, the tablet should give people boons (regen as a baseline?) like regen or protection.

(continued…)

Loki.4871:

(continued…)

Mallyx’s stance is… it’s got problems. For those of you who didn’t really do GW1, Mallyx was an endgame boss who buffed up when you put conditons and hexes (debuffs) on him. Hence why the Mallyx stance gets more powerful when you have more conditions on you. This was the most stance I spent time in, so here’s my big thoughts:

1. The descriptions are complicated.
“When you meet the threshold you do additional damage.” After reading the actual skill facts, I discover this means 2 or more conditions does another few stacks of torment. Why can’t you just say “When you have 2 or more conditions you do additional damage” instead? It feels a bit… I dunno, pointlessly hiding information?

2. Condition ‘holding’ works in theory.
In practice, less so. Necromancers can get away with it thanks to Plague Signet and minions hoovering them off the necromancer with the right traits, but for the Revenant what I found usually happened was I’d hoover off all the burning or poison, go “Oh, that’s a lot of health deg-” and become downed. The heal feels too weak or has too long a cooldown, because of this-if you pull conditions off and you get a good stack of burning, poison, bleed, or even all three together, you fall over so fast it isn’t even funny, resistance or not.
I’m not really sure what to do with it though. Resistance is a really powerful skill. Perhaps make it last 1 seconds on the elite stance and refresh every 2, essentially halving the damage you take while suffering all these condtions? Or perhaps hard-code in health regen for every condition you have? I know using the demon form giving you torment along with any bleeding or poison or burning inflicts seriously punishing health degen-and when you use your healing skill, you don’t lose said conditions either.

3. That. Ruddy. Displacement.
History lesson here for non GW1 players: Mallyx had an attack that would make the victim shadowstep when he punched them in the face. Or kidney. Or butt. Or anywhere, really. While it’s nice seeing the skill with the same name pull the same trick, it’s also a royal buttpain, because if you don’t have the axe offhand, it’s your only gapcloser, which then creates a gap-and pushes them away and out of the field any allied aoe!

4. It seems to have poor synergy; Ventari removes conditions, the Dorf removes them on yourself (one way of sorting problem 2, I grant you) the staff can remove them, and if there’s multiple mallyx stance using Revenants in one place what tends to happen is one revenant falling over very quickly due to getting all the conditions on themselves.

So, in conclusion; eating conditions is terminally bad for the Mallyx stance in it’s current form, it needs a buffer and/or better condition removal.

Weapon wise, the mace seems a bit slow but torment is a powerful condition. The axe as an offhand is pretty fun, and got some powerful stuff going for it.
Staff is lots of fun despite the pathetic damage it does-something that could do with being buffed up, or perhaps an animation change. Seeing it use hammer animations (even if it’s just for the movement) makes me automatically think of the guardian and warrior’s hammers-something good at protecting allies and/or good at controlling/smashing enemies. Currently the staff doesn’t really do either, though the potential weakness is nice, as is aoe condition removal. The healing orbs are, however, not that useful. They just don’t do enough healing to really be noticeable.

Finally, the request I have for elementalists too-let them have a second weapon slot that they cannot change in combat. Going from hammer to staff out of combat via menus was a massive drag.

The only real thing I have to add to this thread (since everything I wanted to write has already been stated) is perhaps thinking about having Ventari’s tablet spawn on Legend swap. Unless strategically placed prior to entering combat, and then never swapping away from from Ventari, the tablet is practically useless. Swapping to Ventari for added heals is just shot down by casting the tablet to begin with. Just a thought.

This may have been covered already, what’s up with the self inflicting conditions in Mallyx skills?
Empowering Misery: Self-Weakness
Pain absorption: Self-Blind
Banish Enchantment: Self-Vulnerability
Unyielding Anguish: Self-Cripple
Embrace Darkness: Self-Torment

This may have been covered already, what’s up with the self inflicting conditions in Mallyx skills?
Empowering Misery: Self-Weakness
Pain absorption: Self-Blind
Banish Enchantment: Self-Vulnerability
Unyielding Anguish: Self-Cripple
Embrace Darkness: Self-Torment

Well, it’s meant to be like the masochist Necro build, where you apply conditions to yourself, then pass them on to enemies or eat them to buff yourself, the problem is that this class does a poor job of doing that last bit, the passing them on or benefiting from them. Mallyx stance needs more Resistance, and more reliable methods of passing on Conditions.

Channeling delay + cool-down + energy cost on attack skills makes them, and the class almost useless. Utility, healing and elite skills all cost energy, so we are left deciding whether to use attacks or utility skills most of the time. Please remove energy cost from weapon skills (and adjust their power as necessary for balance).

As it is, I have characters of every class, and can’t see myself choosing to play Revenant over any of them. It’s simply to frustrating to have to constantly debate between using utility skills or attacks.

Ohoni.6057:

This may have been covered already, what’s up with the self inflicting conditions in Mallyx skills?
Empowering Misery: Self-Weakness
Pain absorption: Self-Blind
Banish Enchantment: Self-Vulnerability
Unyielding Anguish: Self-Cripple
Embrace Darkness: Self-Torment

Well, it’s meant to be like the masochist Necro build, where you apply conditions to yourself, then pass them on to enemies or eat them to buff yourself, the problem is that this class does a poor job of doing that last bit, the passing them on or benefiting from them. Mallyx stance needs more Resistance, and more reliable methods of passing on Conditions.

Aha, I see. Oi, Anet, are you reading this?

Check out also this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/3-Days-Revenant-PvP-Review-Suggestions/first
It’s amazing.

Here are my thoughts on playing the Revenant this weekend.

1. As everyone has said, DPS is very low. My biggest complaint would be this.
2. All weapons, mechanics and cool downs seem really slow. I don’t have to be a D/D Ele or thief but even to me the skills seemed to take a long time.
3. I like the animations and the skills themselves. They were fun to watch and resolve.
4. I like that the Hammer and Staff have different functionality than other professions.
5. Ventari was a bit confusing to use. It reminded me somewhat of the Guardian Tomes that were replaced. Seemed clunky to me.
6. I don’t want the class to fall into the gimmicky category. So far it feels a little like we have necro-light, warrior-light, and guardian/monk-light. The class has tons of potential I think and I would hate to see people not play it in favor of classes with much more versatility in a single profession.

I don’t want it to seem as if I am down on the class. I think it will be a lot of fun when it is completely fleshed out. I just wanted to put down some of my thoughts after playing with the three legends the rev has right now.

skills 1-5 shouldn’t drain the legend bar, I find myself just waiting on the bar to fill up to do anything (even heal)

as we cant change the skills 6-0 how about building the revenant around changing skills 1-5 for each weapon legend combo.
does the staff 1-5 need another heal skill, its only real attacks are 1,2,5 ad after you use skill 5 you need to wait on the charge…
condi build is good but you the constantly waiting on cool downs because your 1-5 used up your bar really takes away its power.
maybe adding a traite that reducing the cost on your bar by 20% like they do with the other classes

[Suggestion] 5th Trait line:

“Sight without sight”
The revenant selecting this trait line perceives the world behind their blindfold, to see the crux of the environment, through the ethereal plane.

The set bonuses for this trait:

[N] The condition blind does not affect you, as you intentionally wear a blindfold.
[M] Targets you call are visible to all allies, not just those in your group
[X] On swapping heroes, you have 10% chance of detecting foes who are in stealth. The chance to detect increases with increased energy for use.

Now to think for some really useful “Heartbeat” skills ( Aka the trait line )

Hammer is too slow, Mace/Axe can be unwieldy but is prime candidate for being a good weapon, Staff is also a good candidate for being a good weapon.

The problems that I find are as follows;
- Relies too much on auto-attacking or getting into combat to gain energy.
- You spend most of your time trying to combo attacks but you can’t really because most of your good attacks either require energy or go on such a long cooldown that you can’t reliably combo them with anything. This is where the auto-attacking thing comes in, you’re spending most of your time trying not to spend a lot of energy so you spend your time trying to pop small skills and waiting to pop big skills but all that is for naught because the time you’re using to wait has already been used to punch your face in.
My suggestions; Reduce the cost of big skills and give them cooldowns so at least we can perform a chain combo with the small cost skills.
- Consider abilities that give energy in chunks.
- Increase the animation speed of the Hammer knockdown. That thing seems like it’s built to squash a tortoise.
- The damage for all weapons except Mace/Axe is fine. Crowd control is severely lacking. More condi burst is needed for Mace to really shine.
- Taunt doesn’t seem to be doing what it’s supposed to do (someone taunted me and I could still use skills)
- Ventari’s Tablet feels like it’s only good for the reflect and blowing up to heal. The cleanse is nice but there’s no CC on it so, it just feels lack luster. An initial knockback would be nice when it unleashes it’s bubble.
Those are my qualms and suggestions right now. I can say, it feels a lot like the engie and Ele at the start of the game when no one knew how to play them. Right now though, I feel it’s just the lack of Legends with the appropriate combination of skills.

Love all the ideas! The rev is alot of fun, and I think the play is enjoyable. Just a few good tweaks, and it could be great.

I’m all for weapon swap. Sometimes ranged/melee is a requirement. Plus since the legend is kinda needs a certain weapon (ventari/staff and mace+axemallyx), it can make legend swapping less effective. As it stands the rev has the fewest active skills in the game. With every class having atleast 17 active abilities, and as much as 41 (ele with 4 conjure weapons), the rev has a total of 15. Weapon swap would give 20.

Gearing is another problem. 2 legends need 2 often conflicting sets of stats. I think an easy fix for this is giving a trait that, like many other classes, gives a % of a stat to a stat. mallyx/ventari being % of condi to healing. It’s a small buff, but it could be important boost that they need, and makes it more effective to use another legend that may need different stats.

Skill variety is a problem too. I know more will be added later, but a lot more is very important. It would be amazing to have a F2 F3 or F4 based off of legend. Also some skills that are available for ALL legends would be good.

Keep it up! Loving it so far

If Anet did have weapon swapping, they could keep it at only two legendaries during battle to switch between and not make it too OP along with splitting the CDs and the energy consumption. When I was playing I would have to choose which weapon to use that would work best for both of the legendaries even though the staff for example is imo best for Ventari. With weapon swapping you won’t have to lose the benefit of certain weapons with certain legendaries.

This is by far the best feedback I’ve seen. I second all of the suggestions!

TBH I’m not sure why they went any of these routes with the Revevant, if it’s not broken, why fix it, don’t try and reinvent the wheel, ect ect.

Weapon swapping was working fine, utility choices were also working fine. The Legends could have functioned like Attunements, I’m baffled why you felt the need to over complicate things. New and shiny is not always good, someone seems to have way over thought the whole class design, in doing so you have created so much more work then you needed to.

This is more of food for thought for the future if you plan on releasing any more classes. Your current system works, it has some balance tweeking that needs work here and there but over all it works just fine and people seem content with it. So once again, for future, if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.