Guild Wars 2

Daniel Handler.4816:

A legend should be compatible with other combinations.

What good is it if only Glint/Ventari builds work….It’s the ultimate expression of ventari. You have to stop everything else for a few seconds in order to heal yourself a good margin, and you are punished for it with bad energy.

100% agree with this bit,I would however like to add that while you can still AA whilist the tablet casts it’s heals (let’s be honest weapon aa deals more damage than actual weapon skills…unless we are trying to damage the breakbar). For me the expresion of Ventari in pvp is this – leave yourself open to most melee range cc.

Daniel Handler.4816:

You don’t need perma protection. The amount provided by on aura application is sufficient.

Maintaing Protection is easier to do with Ventari and Herald traitline than it is with Sigil of Chaos because it doesn’t strain our energy as hard and also provides some healing on top.

Considering how many times devs tried to patch Ventari and it still did not work, it is safe to say the healing concept is never going to work. It is a good time to ditch it.

Swagger.1459:

Akeno.4962:

Swagger.1459:

Game built on movement based combat + stationary tablet that is clunky to move around for support = really not good design choice…

Druid is not good either for movement based combat with the mini aiming reticles and players running around like cats.

Both healing support designs are awful, some of the most awful heal support designs I’ve ever encountered in an mmo. Even in games where there is a lot of skill rooting, you don’t see this poor design.

You complain about clunkiness, but I haven’t seen any suggestions coming from you.

An “always with you” tablet makes no difference from a staff water elementalist, just healing in AoE. Even tempest healer would be a better option since can decide where to apply healing instead of just healing around yourself.

Can you provide interesting designs that no other MMO has used, like druid or Ventari are? I think the latter may need some changes, but no throw all the design away.

look at my post history for suggestions…

edit- interesting design? no, we need a proper functioning support design first.

Edit 2- why don’t you go into wvw and spvp with your heal specced Ventari rev then come back with a better understanding. Go do the same with team heal focused Druid and learn a bit.

As I stated in my first post, i know nothing compared to people who usually post. I’m just giving my two cents. And as an answer to Edit 2, I couldn’t care less about WvW or PvP, really.

The revenant needs a complete remake: Glint is a must, restricting the number of possible builds we can make, and the rest of the legends don’t work as intended (Jalis is kinda designed to be a tank but has a range weapon, Ventari doesn’t heal properly and staff is a melee weapon that only provides one healing skill, and so on)

I remember liking some idea you posted to change Ventari. However, I think that if we can provide sensible changes that don’t require a remake, maybe the devs are more willing to provide them. Both ways, the objective is to win build diversity this profession lacks.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Daniel Handler.4816:

A legend should be compatible with other combinations.

What good is it if only Glint/Ventari builds work….It’s the ultimate expression of ventari. You have to stop everything else for a few seconds in order to heal yourself a good margin, and you are punished for it with bad energy.

100% agree with this bit,I would however like to add that while you can still AA whilist the tablet casts it’s heals (let’s be honest weapon aa deals more damage than actual weapon skills…unless we are trying to damage the breakbar). For me the expresion of Ventari in pvp is this – leave yourself open to most melee range cc.

Daniel Handler.4816:

You don’t need perma protection. The amount provided by on aura application is sufficient.

Maintaing Protection is easier to do with Ventari and Herald traitline than it is with Sigil of Chaos because it doesn’t strain our energy as hard and also provides some healing on top.

It wasn’t a question of whether revenant had good protection application. It’s whether perma is necessary. By on aura application I was referring to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Shielding

With proper traits on ele, auras will:

• Heal 522+(.55H)
• Apply 3s of protection, and 5s of vigor/regeneration
• Protection reduces damage by 40%

With proper traits on revenant, every three seconds the tablet can:

• Heal 325+(0.05H) from the tablet itself and 805+(0.4H) from ventari’s will
• Apply 2.25s/3.25s (depending on facet of nature) of protection/regeneration

With sufficient boon duration, ele can have the same boons as ventari + the support of the auras, just by rotating.
If doesn’t matter if revenant has more healing modifiers, this high sustain option only works while in ventari. And all and all it never matches the bursts of ele.

This is the design of revenant that is also it’s downfall. By copying the abilities of other classes, you get reduced potency in exchange for the potential to sustain them.

But a class of utility on demand means nothing without that demand. A d/f elementalist is a more potent but unsustainable ventari. But there is limited need for the revenants level of sustain (outside of glint). For instance situations where swirling winds and magnetic aura are outclassed by protective solace are incredibly niche.

Tldr; ventari requires situations where high sustained healing beats burst followed by low sustain. Without that it just an inferior auramancr. Changing gameplay in pve to produce these situations has only lead to druids being supreme in raids

Edit: perhaps incorporate a trait similar to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deep_Strike in which the regeneration you apply increases some stat, or perhaps cancels the effects of poison.

I’ve been playing it a lot lately in WVW and TBH it doesn’t need much more help now, just tweaking. Agree with others that the Salvation trait line is the biggest problem, it doesn’t play very well with other legends and it’s too narrowly defined in terms of healing.

The biggest issue remaining gameplay-wise is that Ventari is just too easy to focus down in PVP/WVW because of no stunbreak and weak self-healing. I still like the idea of making the elite teleport you to your tablet position and removing the dropped orbs. The dropped orbs don’t work IMHO.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Daniel Handler.4816:

A legend should be compatible with other combinations.

What good is it if only Glint/Ventari builds work….It’s the ultimate expression of ventari. You have to stop everything else for a few seconds in order to heal yourself a good margin, and you are punished for it with bad energy.

100% agree with this bit,I would however like to add that while you can still AA whilist the tablet casts it’s heals (let’s be honest weapon aa deals more damage than actual weapon skills…unless we are trying to damage the breakbar). For me the expresion of Ventari in pvp is this – leave yourself open to most melee range cc.

Daniel Handler.4816:

You don’t need perma protection. The amount provided by on aura application is sufficient.

Maintaing Protection is easier to do with Ventari and Herald traitline than it is with Sigil of Chaos because it doesn’t strain our energy as hard and also provides some healing on top.

It wasn’t a question of whether revenant had good protection application. It’s whether perma is necessary. By on aura application I was referring to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Shielding

With proper traits on ele, auras will:

• Heal 522+(.55H)
• Apply 3s of protection, and 5s of vigor/regeneration
• Protection reduces damage by 40%

With proper traits on revenant, every three seconds the tablet can:

• Heal 325+(0.05H) from the tablet itself and 805+(0.4H) from ventari’s will
• Apply 2.25s/3.25s (depending on facet of nature) of protection/regeneration

With sufficient boon duration, ele can have the same boons as ventari + the support of the auras, just by rotating.
If doesn’t matter if revenant has more healing modifiers, this high sustain option only works while in ventari. And all and all it never matches the bursts of ele.

This is the design of revenant that is also it’s downfall. By copying the abilities of other classes, you get reduced potency in exchange for the potential to sustain them.

But a class of utility on demand means nothing without that demand. A d/f elementalist is a more potent but unsustainable ventari. But there is limited need for the revenants level of sustain (outside of glint). For instance situations where swirling winds and magnetic aura are outclassed by protective solace are incredibly niche.

Tldr; ventari requires situations where high sustained healing beats burst followed by low sustain. Without that it just an inferior auramancr. Changing gameplay in pve to produce these situations has only lead to druids being supreme in raids

Edit: perhaps incorporate a trait similar to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deep_Strike in which the regeneration you apply increases some stat, or perhaps cancels the effects of poison.

40% damage reduction is restricted to the Elementalist (similar to rolling mists). (sauce Karl)
Keeping up perma regen is also pretty trivial on revenants and rev regen heals for soothing mists+elementalist regen at 1200 healing power (Rev Regen is stronger after this point). Also you can keep up some extra Fury and a few might stacks.

The actual Ventari can perform greatly in some aspects, that is out of discussion. The problem IMO is that those aspects aren’t enough so that people use it more usually. Devs need either to buff some legends (Ventari included) or revamp the entire class (except Glint, maybe)

Varezenem.2813:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Daniel Handler.4816:

A legend should be compatible with other combinations.

What good is it if only Glint/Ventari builds work….It’s the ultimate expression of ventari. You have to stop everything else for a few seconds in order to heal yourself a good margin, and you are punished for it with bad energy.

100% agree with this bit,I would however like to add that while you can still AA whilist the tablet casts it’s heals (let’s be honest weapon aa deals more damage than actual weapon skills…unless we are trying to damage the breakbar). For me the expresion of Ventari in pvp is this – leave yourself open to most melee range cc.

Daniel Handler.4816:

You don’t need perma protection. The amount provided by on aura application is sufficient.

Maintaing Protection is easier to do with Ventari and Herald traitline than it is with Sigil of Chaos because it doesn’t strain our energy as hard and also provides some healing on top.

It wasn’t a question of whether revenant had good protection application. It’s whether perma is necessary… [snip]

40% damage reduction is restricted to the Elementalist (similar to rolling mists). (sauce Karl)
Keeping up perma regen is also pretty trivial on revenants and rev regen heals for soothing mists+elementalist regen at 1200 healing power (Rev Regen is stronger after this point). Also you can keep up some extra Fury and a few might stacks.

Even if your uptime is better it doesn’t matter.

There are basically no situations where high sustain hps is better than medium sustain and high burst heals. Maybe the exception is under siege fire in wvw. But even then people use ele water fields.

We had this discussion before. But it was Druid vs Ventari.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/How-can-Ventari-compete-with-Druid/first#post5528604

Varezenem.2813:

My overall impression of it is the following.
Druid:

• Better burst
• More self heal
• More control
• Sacrifices less damage
• More condi cleanse
• Better Mobility

Herald (Ventari/Glint):

• Better sustain Healing
• Far more damage reduction around 54%-74% by itself compared to 48% (both with protection and clerics).
• Better projectile hate
• More party wide boon upkeep (perma protection, swiftness, fury, regen)
• More blocks/invulnerability

However Roy I do have to agree with the feedback on other topics. To make ventari more competitive it needs to lose that cast time on tablet movement and increase its speed and range a bit too (to 1200-1500).

And Roy did your suggestions but they didn’t change what people needed. Druid is still meta healer for raid. And though it was not that threads subject, auramancers are the meta healers for wvw. You could replace the word Druid with auramancers and it would be the same. Their burst is better and other healing wvw classes (Guardian) can make up for any lack in ele’s sustain.

Medium to high sustain isn’t useful to avoid spike. High burst with low sustain is all people need.

People can get their heals from ele/guardian/druid, their projectile hate from guardian/mesmer/engie, their condi hate from all classes with shouts. And their boons from Glint.

No one wants Ventari. All it provides, meta team comps either have, or don’t need

Ventari by itself does both the jobs of ele/guardian (the sustain healers as you described them) plus the jobs of projectile hate from guardian/mesmer/engi.

Rev is a jack of all trades,of course it’s going to be weaker than the specialists in this departament.

The very existance of this thread however proves you are dead wrong when you say no one wants Ventari XD.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Ventari by itself does both the jobs of ele/guardian (the sustain healers as you described them) plus the jobs of projectile hate from guardian/mesmer/engi.

Rev is a jack of all trades,of course it’s going to be weaker than the specialists in this departament.

The very existance of this thread however proves you are dead wrong when you say no one wants Ventari XD.

Let me correct myself. The meta doesn’t want us. And I only said guardian was a sustain healer. Ele has the second best burst after Druid. Guard is just there to add to any sustain ele lacks for wvw.

And no, it does one of the jobs of those classes. You can’t do both. Eles can have projectile hate and burst heal at the same time. We can’t burst heal with ventari and protective solace.

Rev is glint/x. G/malyx for frontline, g/Shiro for backline, g/jalis for pve raids. G/Shiro for PvP meta.

Never Glint/ventari. It has no group stability. It has no burst heal, or water field. It has no reflect, or 600 range condi removal. It has no wards. It has no resistance. It has no quality self heal. It lowers group dps. It makes the revenant use too many skills when he should be focusing on boon duration uptime. Its tablet fragments take the team out of alignment.

It’s so unnecessary I can run the salvation traitline and boost my regeneration, while not running ventari at all, and still help my group more than I would be otherwise.

It has no use in this game. A jack of all trades that can sustain certain utilities. So far the only thing people need sustained is our dps, resistance/condi removal, and boon uptime from the facets.

I’m not sure about who has the best burst though. The sequence Envoy of exuberance->swap to ventari->project tranquility->Ventari’s Will->Natural Harmony takes around a second and heals for 14k/12k PvE/SPvP (not including equilibrium and sigil of renewal.).

Varezenem.2813:

I’m not sure about who has the best burst though. The sequence Envoy of exuberance->swap to ventari->project tranquility->Ventari’s Will->Natural Harmony takes around a second and heals for 14k/12k PvE/SPvP (not including equilibrium and sigil of renewal.).

In pvp, no one uses ele for burst heal anymore after cleric went away. You compete with druid, and we already know how that matchup settles.

As for wvw

Envoy is 3/4 of a second,
project tranquility has a 1/4 second aftercast
Natural harmony takes 1 second.

So that’s 2 seconds of 6-7k per second healing

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Midline_Auramancer

Instant:
{Healing ripple from attunement swap
elemental bastion from feel the burn}

Wash the pain away, 1.5 seconds
they are at 13k at this point.

They geyser to go above 14k at the 2 second mark, and then the team blasts the crap out of the water field in the 3rd second of this burst when natural harmony is still on cooldown. And while you are forced to stop burst healing after your second harmony, they still have the overload, and healing rain, both blastable sources of condi clear.

Any thing you could provide by increasing your healing power is useless for the meta, because they do all this healing with 1136 healing power, and ventari can’t outburst blasting water fields.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone “blast the crap” out of a water field in PvP. People also generally do not stand in Geyser for long, and Wash the Pain Away has very limited range.

Also

No one wants Ventari. All it provides, meta team comps either have, or don’t need

Speak for yourself. I’m so tired of the lame point healer design being repeatedly used in this game.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Varezenem.2813:

I’m not sure about who has the best burst though. The sequence Envoy of exuberance->swap to ventari->project tranquility->Ventari’s Will->Natural Harmony takes around a second and heals for 14k/12k PvE/SPvP (not including equilibrium and sigil of renewal.).

In pvp, no one uses ele for burst heal anymore after cleric went away. You compete with druid, and we already know how that matchup settles.

Dunno about WvW since in practice balance over there is pretty irrelevant. But in PvP quite a few things changed since I made that evaluation

Varezenem.2813:

My overall impression of it is the following.
Druid:

• Better burst
• More self heal
• More control
• Sacrifices less damage
• More condi cleanse
• Better Mobility

Herald (Ventari/Glint):

• Better sustain Healing
• Far more damage reduction around 54%-74% by itself compared to 48% (both with protection and clerics).
• Better projectile hate
• More party wide boon upkeep (perma protection, swiftness, fury, regen)
• More blocks/invulnerability

• AoE cleansing got massively nerfed
  They still have a considerably stronger self condi removal but druidic clarity is likely to be nerfed.
• CC got nerfed
  Moment of clarity nerf, glyph aren’t used and lunar impact got considerably nerfed.
• Burst healing got somewhat nerfed

CC and in the AoE cleansing department both specs are similar now. The advantages that druid has that make them meta are:

1. ease of use
2. high burst damage
3. High mobility and escape
4. high sustain

Increasing the sustain Ventari/Glint has should solve most of the problems since this is the most noticeable weakness in PvP and it’s likely that druids will get nerfed.

Daniel Handler.4816:

It has no use in this game. A jack of all trades that can sustain certain utilities. So far the only thing people need sustained is our dps, resistance/condi removal, and boon uptime from the facets.

I think there’s something wrong with the “Jack of all trades” concept in this game. Tempest is both a heavy healer and a heavy damager. The only “nerfed” build it has is condi damage in earth, better say not used since direct damage is way better. Of course, a Tempest doesnt take damage well, the only disadvantage. And lets not talk about druid: it has a power build (less used), a condi build, a healer build and I’ve started hearing about heal tank build for raids. Much less damage than Tempest, much easier to survive. Both Tempest and Druid can fulfill 2 or 3 out of the 4 rols a raid needs, and Tempest has both staff and fresh air builds to deal damage.

My point is, “mixture of other professions” thing is a concept people use to justify revenant or even engineer being undesired in raids since they are not the specialists. Revenant design’s right now only allows us to be a boonbot and deal mediocre damage by ourselves. It’s a problem of design, not a problem of the concept.

Devs need to work around a couple of legends so there is build diversity, the other roles a revenant can be don’t need to be raid good. Ideally, either Jallis or Ventari would be improved since tanks or healers are in demand

People may not like my opinion because of using Tempest as a “Jack of all trades” example of successfull build diversity, I don’t really care.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone “blast the crap” out of a water field in PvP. People also generally do not stand in Geyser for long, and Wash the Pain Away has very limited range.

Also

No one wants Ventari. All it provides, meta team comps either have, or don’t need

Speak for yourself. I’m so tired of the lame point healer design being repeatedly used in this game.

Yes. But as I said, in PvP the ele vs ventari comparison no longer exists. It is ventari vs Druid and Rev is lacking.

Varezenem.2813:

[snip]…
CC and in the AoE cleansing department both specs are similar now. The advantages that druid has that make them meta are:

1. ease of use
2. high burst damage
3. High mobility and escape
4. high sustain

Increasing the sustain Ventari/Glint has should solve most of the problems since this is the most noticeable weakness in PvP and it’s likely that druids will get nerfed.

Your previous comparison still stands even with any of the reductions you mentioned. No amount of delayed tablet removal can compare to popping Signet of Renewal to remove all condis from the team.

In any game mode Druid is better. They won’t change its best burst healing because it is an elite spec. Ventari will be stuck as the sustain option. They won’t give ventari better cleanse because we have malyx and jalis, and apparently condis are suppose to be our weakness.

“Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/How-can-Ventari-compete-with-Druid/first#post5527470

There is no to be nerfed soon. There is hoping a situation arises where sustain healing is useful.

Also any build can be viable not every build can be meta. Ventari will never be meta in its current state. Shiro, jalis, malyx, are the stances you get to pair with Glint, and when we remove them for ventari we take away more from the team than we give.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Varezenem.2813:

[snip]…
CC and in the AoE cleansing department both specs are similar now. The advantages that druid has that make them meta are:

1. ease of use
2. high burst damage
3. High mobility and escape
4. high sustain

Increasing the sustain Ventari/Glint has should solve most of the problems since this is the most noticeable weakness in PvP and it’s likely that druids will get nerfed.

Your previous comparison still stands even with any of the reductions you mentioned. No amount of delayed tablet removal can compare to popping Signet of Renewal to remove all condis from the team.

In any game mode Druid is better. They won’t change its best burst healing because it is an elite spec. Ventari will be stuck as the sustain option. They won’t give ventari better cleanse because we have malyx and jalis, and apparently condis are suppose to be our weakness.

“Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/How-can-Ventari-compete-with-Druid/first#post5527470

There is no to be nerfed soon. There is hoping a situation arises where sustain healing is useful.

Also any build can be viable not every build can be meta. Ventari will never be meta in its current state. Shiro, jalis, malyx, are the stances you get to pair with Glint, and when we remove them for ventari we take away more from the team than we give.

Purifying Essence is instant cast and activation, there is also staff cleanse and eluding nullification. While SoR is strong it does bug out sometimes and has a rather large cooldown.
On the meta druid your CCs are lunar impact, natural convergence, ancient seeds, staff 4 , , smokescale takedown and protect me.
On Ventari/glint you have Chaotic Release, Energy Expulsion, Surge of the Mist and debilitating slam.

And I can guarantee you that Ventari/Glint will never be PvP meta since it requires you to make a team composition that does not include DPS Rev in the ESL. And that doesn’t seem to be happening any time soon. Therefore I’m aiming for it to be competitive rather than meta.

I’m bored of the arguments here – in the end it all comes down to meta vs player’s skill in making something they like viable despite technicalities vs f@king personal preference so I am going to repost something I wrote in a thread called “Next elite spec” (for revenant, duh).

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Here is my take on ritualist. The ranged weapon is a mh ranged dagger and the mechanic can be called either power infusion or double invocation and it involves using the power of 2 legendary characters into 1 stance.

Here are a few combinations I thought off
Legendary Centaur Stance infused with Demonic Power – this turns Ventari’s tablet into an Effigy of Malyx which is used to act as a ranged condi weapon.The healing skill will apply 1 stack of resistance to nearby allies – because it will be spamable as kitten. Effigy will not heal stuff it.

Legendary Centaur Stance infused with Dwarven Magic – this turns the tablet into a cc-breaking machine that deals some damage but no longer heals.

Legendary Assasin Stance infused with Demonic Power – a very mobile condi powerhouse. – the skills here will trigger both demonic defiance and nefarious momentum.

As far as the salvation traitline goes….it should get paired with a different support legend like shogo and hopefully it will be more friendlier to players with lower skills.

Varezenem.2813:

…[snip]
And I can guarantee you that Ventari/Glint will never be PvP meta since it requires you to make a team composition that does not include DPS Rev in the ESL. And that doesn’t seem to be happening any time soon. Therefore I’m aiming for it to be competitive rather than meta.

The meta doesn’t only extend to esl. And there is no rule against class stacking in any game mode. Having two revs, one dps, and one healing, was always allowed. We just can’t compete for a slot in any game mode.
For PvP:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Berserker_-_Macebow
The rare instance where brawler’s recovery is not sufficient they have healing signet and berserker stance for resistance. If it’s still too much, a full cleanse + stealth will save them, removing 3 condis from the 8+ on them will not. Five players per team and ventari isn’t going to replace the Druid slot anytime soon.

For WvW
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Team:Team_-_Boon_Meta
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Frontline_Sustain
Malyx and ventari both have no stun breaker, but as I mentioned before the team has healers/water fields, and pain absorption works better for condi removal.

For raids
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_DPS/Support
You aren’t supposed to use more than 5 energy per second in the non Glint stance, becaue you are there for facet of nature uptime.

For fractals/dungeon
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_S/A
Ventari is only swapped in for protectile defense and it is swapped out. Damage is more important than healing in this game mode.

Builds are personal preference, but there comes a point when you start losing fights because of your unsuccessful experiment. Ventari harms the group because it sacrifices uptime on boons when it tries to burst heal. And now your team doesn’t have the resistance, or damage you could have provided with other stances.

Ventari needs to be improved. It needs situations where its brand of utility is paramount. It needs to be good enough that people will risk facet of nature uptime, or group resistance.

Ventari needs

• a one second interval on the passive heal the tablet produces (reduce its heal by 2/3) so it heals all the people the tablet moves through.
• a one second interval on nourishing roots (don’t change the boon duration) so regeneration is applied to all the people the tablet moves through.
• momentry pacification becomes “favorable conditions” regeneration increases incoming heals by 33% to allies that have a damaging condition on them. A quality trait that negates poison and requires less healing power than selfless amplification, at the expense of providing no benefit against power builds.
• upgrade natural abundance by adding that enemies that walk over fragments are crippled (it is the Centaur stance after all, cripple is part of the centur rune and the centaur banner). This can occur 10 times per fragment.
• overwrite tranquil benediction, make it “practicing restraint” when you apply a cc you also apply weakness, but when you interrupt you apply bleed

Salvation would have three paths. One focusing on healing modifiers, another dealing with condi mitigation through healing ticks/removal, and the last path would be blind/bleed/cripple just like centaurs in game https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur_Banner

Hopefully with the cooldown changes ventari could use the lack of a target limit on ventari’s to heal and apply regeneration to the entire zerg.

That would make ventari unique, and useful. Being able to pull healing ticks on 20+ people by just coordinating our tablet movements as we were supposed to.

Tldr; for ventari to be the sustain healer, it’s sustain needs to affect way more than 5 targets. Regular heals to 20 people can compete with burst heal to five.

Main problem with rev as a healer is honestly the traits are garbage.

Shrouding mists is impossible to upkeep over 50% i honestly think this trait should be merge in to selfless amplification

Selfless amplification should scale on 75 healing power over 100 honestly i run almost highest healing power in game it only 23% it kinda weak for a grand master at 75 it would be 38%

natural abundance should be changed to drop 1 healing fragment every 3 seconds make them last for 10 seconds.

Tranquil Benediction should just be merge in to natural abundance

Nourishing Roots be buff to make tablet interval 1 second heal over 3 seconds.

core of rev healing itself is well design it just traits are sub par to it

Taobella.6597:

Main problem with rev as a healer is honestly the traits are garbage.

Shrouding mists is impossible to upkeep over 50% i honestly think this trait should be merge in to selfless amplification

Selfless amplification should scale on 75 healing power over 100 honestly i run almost highest healing power in game it only 23% it kinda weak for a grand master at 75 it would be 38%

natural abundance should be changed to drop 1 healing fragment every 3 seconds make them last for 10 seconds.

Tranquil Benediction should just be merge in to natural abundance

Nourishing Roots be buff to make tablet interval 1 second heal over 3 seconds.

core of rev healing itself is well design it just traits are sub par to it

From my last test 3 days ago, the healing increase from shrouded mist either doesn’t work or doesn’t work on regeneration. They should make it work, and reverse it so it matches the damage vs effect effect in the equilibrium trait. Over 50= damage, under 50= healing.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Taobella.6597:

Main problem with rev as a healer is honestly the traits are garbage.

Shrouding mists is impossible to upkeep over 50% i honestly think this trait should be merge in to selfless amplification

Selfless amplification should scale on 75 healing power over 100 honestly i run almost highest healing power in game it only 23% it kinda weak for a grand master at 75 it would be 38%

natural abundance should be changed to drop 1 healing fragment every 3 seconds make them last for 10 seconds.

Tranquil Benediction should just be merge in to natural abundance

Nourishing Roots be buff to make tablet interval 1 second heal over 3 seconds.

core of rev healing itself is well design it just traits are sub par to it

From my last test 3 days ago, the healing increase from shrouded mist either doesn’t work or doesn’t work on regeneration. They should make it work, and reverse it so it matches the damage vs effect effect in the equilibrium trait. Over 50= damage, under 50= healing.

yeah i tested it a few times myself i honestly can not tell what it does but even if i get that 1 amazing 50+ upkeep healing off i never see it again in engagement lol. this coming from someone who play medic rev for past 4 months almost nonstop xD (not saying im amazing or anything but i really know what to expect from my heals)

I’ve had this idea that might work to reduce what people call tablet’s clunkiness, so I’m bringing it so that i can hear some opinions about it.

My idea is that the tablet follows us. When you use Ventari’s Will, the tablet teleports to the position we want and heals in its way back. If the tablet comes back slowly enough, you can readjust its trajectory by repositioning yourself (and more allies are affected by its healing). We can summon the tablet back to us (healing only the revenant maybe, to increase survivability?) using Ventari’s will again. Any utility skill prevents the tablet from moving while its being used, so that you can control better which area its affected.

I thought this might work since you’re not manually commanding it where to move, you’re repositioning yourself depending on the situation, in a game whose combat system is very mobile. Maybe, it could come together with some changes that make staff a ranged weapon or some healing buff that allows us to use hammer.

Akeno.4962:

I’ve had this idea that might work to reduce what people call tablet’s clunkiness, so I’m bringing it so that i can hear some opinions about it.

My idea is that the tablet follows us. When you use Ventari’s Will, the tablet teleports to the position we want and heals in its way back. If the tablet comes back slowly enough, you can readjust its trajectory by repositioning yourself (and more allies are affected by its healing). We can summon the tablet back to us (healing only the revenant maybe, to increase survivability?) using Ventari’s will again. Any utility skill prevents the tablet from moving while its being used, so that you can control better which area its affected.

I thought this might work since you’re not manually commanding it where to move, you’re repositioning yourself depending on the situation, in a game whose combat system is very mobile. Maybe, it could come together with some changes that make staff a ranged weapon or some healing buff that allows us to use hammer.

This was proposed a few times before but it produces more problems than it solves. For example we would have to lose ALL instant cast abilities on the tablet (except PE perhaps). You would have to essentially redo the legend from zero to keep it balanced in PvP.

@Daniel your last suggestion isn’t bad for PvP. Just note that it would have to be chill, since revenants aren’t supposed to have cripple. (source Roy)

Varezenem.2813:

This was proposed a few times before but it produces more problems than it solves. For example we would have to lose ALL instant cast abilities on the tablet (except PE perhaps). You would have to essentially redo the legend from zero to keep it balanced in PvP.

Why must we lose all instant cast abilities? Just asking.

Any substantial changes in legend mechanics are gonna be a fresh start to balance. But some legends need it. I think that what Ventari needs is either a high reward from using a very inflexible heal mechanic or a more flexible mechanic, and we aren’t getting any of those.

Akeno.4962:

Varezenem.2813:

This was proposed a few times before but it produces more problems than it solves. For example we would have to lose ALL instant cast abilities on the tablet (except PE perhaps). You would have to essentially redo the legend from zero to keep it balanced in PvP.

Why must we lose all instant cast abilities? Just asking.

Any substantial changes in legend mechanics are gonna be a fresh start to balance. But some legends need it. I think that what Ventari needs is either a high reward from using a very inflexible heal mechanic or a more flexible mechanic, and we aren’t getting any of those.

Because of PvP balance. Having strong, no cast and easy to use healing skills is OP. Think about it, you are using something with the same healing output as lunar impact while putting in less effort to hit with it and you do it while CCed.

And I’m on the side that believes on a high reward solution, which can be obtained be properly improving the salvation line and some minor adjustments to the legend.

Varezenem.2813:

Akeno.4962:

I’ve had this idea that might work to reduce what people call tablet’s clunkiness, so I’m bringing it so that i can hear some opinions about it.

My idea is that the tablet follows us. When you use Ventari’s Will, the tablet teleports to the position we want and heals in its way back. If the tablet comes back slowly enough, you can readjust its trajectory by repositioning yourself (and more allies are affected by its healing). We can summon the tablet back to us (healing only the revenant maybe, to increase survivability?) using Ventari’s will again. Any utility skill prevents the tablet from moving while its being used, so that you can control better which area its affected.

I thought this might work since you’re not manually commanding it where to move, you’re repositioning yourself depending on the situation, in a game whose combat system is very mobile. Maybe, it could come together with some changes that make staff a ranged weapon or some healing buff that allows us to use hammer.

This was proposed a few times before but it produces more problems than it solves. For example we would have to lose ALL instant cast abilities on the tablet (except PE perhaps). You would have to essentially redo the legend from zero to keep it balanced in PvP.

@Daniel your last suggestion isn’t bad for PvP. Just note that it would have to be chill, since revenants aren’t supposed to have cripple. (source Roy)

It’s a freaking Centaur. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Make it remove a moment impairing condition then. But Centaur and cripple has such a strong association in the game.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Varezenem.2813:

Akeno.4962:

I’ve had this idea that might work to reduce what people call tablet’s clunkiness, so I’m bringing it so that i can hear some opinions about it.

My idea is that the tablet follows us. When you use Ventari’s Will, the tablet teleports to the position we want and heals in its way back. If the tablet comes back slowly enough, you can readjust its trajectory by repositioning yourself (and more allies are affected by its healing). We can summon the tablet back to us (healing only the revenant maybe, to increase survivability?) using Ventari’s will again. Any utility skill prevents the tablet from moving while its being used, so that you can control better which area its affected.

I thought this might work since you’re not manually commanding it where to move, you’re repositioning yourself depending on the situation, in a game whose combat system is very mobile. Maybe, it could come together with some changes that make staff a ranged weapon or some healing buff that allows us to use hammer.

This was proposed a few times before but it produces more problems than it solves. For example we would have to lose ALL instant cast abilities on the tablet (except PE perhaps). You would have to essentially redo the legend from zero to keep it balanced in PvP.

@Daniel your last suggestion isn’t bad for PvP. Just note that it would have to be chill, since revenants aren’t supposed to have cripple. (source Roy)

It’s a freaking Centaur. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Make it remove a moment impairing condition then. But Centaur and cripple has such a strong association in the game.

It’s not exactly because it’s Ventari but because the legendary centaur stance is a subset of the profession “Revenant”. It’s for the same reasons Elementalists do not have poison or warriors protection. They probably didn’t have Ventari in mind when they choose this restriction. In my opinion it was implied that Elite Specializations aren’t restricted by this.

I would love if Ventari would go as an elite specialization…maybe even to the Ritualist on the condition that the mechanic would be to alter the nature of the tablet by infusing it with the power of a different legend.

Like say ….. infuse Ventari’s tablet with Malyx’s demonic energy and turn it into a ranged condi weapon that gives resistance to nearby allies.

Varezenem.2813:

Daniel Handler.4816:

It’s a freaking Centaur. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Make it remove a moment impairing condition then. But Centaur and cripple has such a strong association in the game.

It’s not exactly because it’s Ventari but because the legendary centaur stance is a subset of the profession “Revenant”. It’s for the same reasons Elementalists do not have poison or warriors protection. They probably didn’t Ventari in mind when they choose this restriction. In my opinion it was implied that Elite Specializations aren’t restricted by this.

Rune of the Centaur is all about Swiftness and Cripple (both currently and before it was redone). I personally don’t really care either way, but you could definitely make the association between Centaurs and Cripple.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Varezenem.2813:

Daniel Handler.4816:

It’s a freaking Centaur. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Make it remove a moment impairing condition then. But Centaur and cripple has such a strong association in the game.

It’s not exactly because it’s Ventari but because the legendary centaur stance is a subset of the profession “Revenant”. It’s for the same reasons Elementalists do not have poison or warriors protection. They probably didn’t have Ventari in mind when they choose this restriction. In my opinion it was implied that Elite Specializations aren’t restricted by this.

Rune of the Centaur is all about Swiftness and Cripple (both currently and before it was redone). I personally don’t really care either way, but you could definitely make the association between Centaurs and Cripple.

Please read what I wrote again.

Varezenem.2813:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Varezenem.2813:

Akeno.4962:

I’ve had this idea that might work to reduce what people call tablet’s clunkiness, so I’m bringing it so that i can hear some opinions about it.

My idea is that the tablet follows us. When you use Ventari’s Will, the tablet teleports to the position we want and heals in its way back. If the tablet comes back slowly enough, you can readjust its trajectory by repositioning yourself (and more allies are affected by its healing). We can summon the tablet back to us (healing only the revenant maybe, to increase survivability?) using Ventari’s will again. Any utility skill prevents the tablet from moving while its being used, so that you can control better which area its affected.

I thought this might work since you’re not manually commanding it where to move, you’re repositioning yourself depending on the situation, in a game whose combat system is very mobile. Maybe, it could come together with some changes that make staff a ranged weapon or some healing buff that allows us to use hammer.

This was proposed a few times before but it produces more problems than it solves. For example we would have to lose ALL instant cast abilities on the tablet (except PE perhaps). You would have to essentially redo the legend from zero to keep it balanced in PvP.

@Daniel your last suggestion isn’t bad for PvP. Just note that it would have to be chill, since revenants aren’t supposed to have cripple. (source Roy)

It’s a freaking Centaur. He doesn’t know what he is talking about. Make it remove a moment impairing condition then. But Centaur and cripple has such a strong association in the game.

It’s not exactly because it’s Ventari but because the legendary centaur stance is a subset of the profession “Revenant”. It’s for the same reasons Elementalists do not have poison or warriors protection. They probably didn’t have Ventari in mind when they choose this restriction. In my opinion it was implied that Elite Specializations aren’t restricted by this.

Also please source. Because revenants were initially designed to spread cripple with malyx.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I love it how I just start getting ignored here.

Because the suggestions are about making Ventari viable. You know, the core legend.
Your ideas are to make it something completely different. That’s not fixing thats replacing.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I love it how I just start getting ignored here.

Because the suggestions are about making Ventari viable. You know, the core legend.
Your ideas are to make it something completely different. That’s not fixing thats replacing.

Spreading by copying is different from applying it.
I’ll search for the source but it’s probably not going to be easy if it was from a livestream.

Varezenem.2813:

Please read what I wrote again.

It doesn’t change anything posted.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I love it how I just start getting ignored here.

No one is required to respond in any particular way nor even at all.

Tablet works in concept, its just Anet was very conservative with their view of healers, when they made it. That is pretty clear, so they kitten it.

The concept isnt the problem. its the execution.

Tablet should not have a cool down, and should heal more. The cost of skills need to go down big time, and tablet should have offensive elements if its not going to be made into a Full Healer role.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I love it how I just start getting ignored here.

Because the suggestions are about making Ventari viable. You know, the core legend.
Your ideas are to make it something completely different. That’s not fixing thats replacing.

I fail to see how expanding upon a concept equals replacing something…my brain trembles.

Knighthonor.4061:

Tablet works in concept, its just Anet was very conservative with their view of healers, when they made it. That is pretty clear, so they kitten it.

The concept isnt the problem. its the execution.

The reasons above sumarise very well how I fell about Ventari now and as an Elite Spec I feel the interesting concepts behind Ventari could be expanded upon even further than it is right now (due to its limitations as a core spec).

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I would love if Ventari would go as an elite specialization…maybe even to the Ritualist on the condition that the mechanic would be to alter the nature of the tablet by infusing it with the power of a different legend.

Like say ….. infuse Ventari’s tablet with Malyx’s demonic energy and turn it into a ranged condi weapon that gives resistance to nearby allies.

Replacing not expanding. Leave elite specs out of it.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I would love if Ventari would go as an elite specialization…maybe even to the Ritualist on the condition that the mechanic would be to alter the nature of the tablet by infusing it with the power of a different legend.

Like say ….. infuse Ventari’s tablet with Malyx’s demonic energy and turn it into a ranged condi weapon that gives resistance to nearby allies.

Replacing not expanding. Leave elite specs out of it.

But nothing is changed within the actual stance….the only reason why I’d put it at elite is so you can get an F2 that changes the purpose of the tablet – which counters Centaur Stance’s original weakness – being locked out of our selfish abilities (self heal,stun breakers etc)

Jack Skywalker.5674:

But nothing is changed within the actual stance….the only reason why I’d put it at elite is so you can get an F2 that changes the purpose of the tablet – which counters Centaur Stance’s original weakness – being locked out of our selfish abilities (self heal,stun breakers etc)

That could change if they decided to provide each legend more skills (perhaps except Glint, since it is in such a good spot?), so that we could customise and create build diversity.

Another idea I’ve had is a variation of a concept I read in this thread, I think. Trait lines could include some trait that changes 2 weapon skills to something new when a combination of legend and weapon is taking place. (Mallyx with mace, Shiro with sword, Ventari and staff, Jalis and hammer, Glint with Shield).

Why is it needed to activate it by a choosing a certain trait? Take for example a healer build for herald, that includes Glint and Ventari, staff, sword and shield. I could be in Glint and using a shield at some point and since shield #4 right now is one of the only two “reliable” weapon skills to heal when you’re not in Ventari. I wouldn’t want it away if the alternative isn’t better, so i don’t take the trait that changes weapon skills.

Another example. I sometimes use a “heally” build when I’m in some events like Jade or DS, but only to help players not to be a dedicated healer. I wouldn’t want to change staff skills to Ventari’s version in that case, so I don’t take the trait.

This way, when we are using a build completely dedicated to the legend’s goal we could enable some weapon skills to help us with that, and also allow some more build diversity. Also, this skills could be more thematic, since they are (except shield maybe) quite general (hitting in short range with a staff probably isn’t what Ventari would do, IMO).

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I would love if Ventari would go as an elite specialization…maybe even to the Ritualist on the condition that the mechanic would be to alter the nature of the tablet by infusing it with the power of a different legend.

Like say ….. infuse Ventari’s tablet with Malyx’s demonic energy and turn it into a ranged condi weapon that gives resistance to nearby allies.

Replacing not expanding. Leave elite specs out of it.

But nothing is changed within the actual stance….the only reason why I’d put it at elite is so you can get an F2 that changes the purpose of the tablet – which counters Centaur Stance’s original weakness – being locked out of our selfish abilities (self heal,stun breakers etc)

Again you are not fixing or expanding, you are replacing.

The topic is making Ventari viable. You are arguing to fix Ventari by creating a new trait line. Do you really think we meant one Ventari builds to be viable and not all?
The entire discussion has been on Ventari as a support legend. Current it’s max healing/support abilities come from salvation/Invocation/Glint. Whatever legend you dream up, it won’t have a healing weapon to replace the loss of shield. Or give perma protection by spamming ventari’s will. So no wonder people ignored you for being off topic.

Telling people you want to fix the support on ventari by adding damage is just as stupid as telling elementalists you want to fix the damage on scepter by adding healing

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I would love if Ventari would go as an elite specialization…maybe even to the Ritualist on the condition that the mechanic would be to alter the nature of the tablet by infusing it with the power of a different legend.

Like say ….. infuse Ventari’s tablet with Malyx’s demonic energy and turn it into a ranged condi weapon that gives resistance to nearby allies.

Replacing not expanding. Leave elite specs out of it.

But nothing is changed within the actual stance….the only reason why I’d put it at elite is so you can get an F2 that changes the purpose of the tablet – which counters Centaur Stance’s original weakness – being locked out of our selfish abilities (self heal,stun breakers etc)

This doesn’t fix. The core has to not rely on the elite.

But based on the current status of Revenant that is simply not true, the core is useless without the Elite!

Look I agree that there are things that can be done to fix Ventari without making it an elite, but as part of the core using Ventari involves a masive change of playstyle via the mechanic of legend swaping – from selfless Martyr where you sacrifice both self sustain and personal defense in order to sustain the team to either condi masochist (malyx), which for me is basicaly punishing myself by taking on loads of condis with Pain Absorb, selfish bloke (shiro) which restore some of the defenses and self sustain you lost and exploration mode (Jallis).

Basicaly what I am trying to say is that due to the absence of legend swap, classes such as Ranger and Elementalist have the option to create a more balanced set of utilitiess as opposed to Core and Herald Reventant (where the change of playstyle feels like a massive drug induced mood swing) and that by making Ventari part of an elite spec it would be easier to balance the core around the massive change in play style promoted by Ventari.

Almost pointless edit: I apologize to the fans of Jallis who were upset by the labbel I gave it but I have no ideea how else to labbel Jallis for end game

Daniel Handler.4816:

Whatever legend you dream up, it won’t have a healing weapon to replace the loss of shield. Or give perma protection by spamming ventari’s will

Actualy I can…my take on Ritualist involves altering the properties of Ventari’s tablet by chaneling the power of an aditional legend into it….basicaly by channeling both the power of Ventari and Jallis into the tablet, Ventari’s will can be altered to mimic the effects of Ventari’s Will with Bolster Fortification. -thats perma protection fixed now on to the healing weapon – ranged mh dagger with a combo field blast on 3 + a water combo field from whatever legend replaces Ventari in core (yeah I replaced shield with a hipothethic second healing legend for core – I am that dull).

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

I would love if Ventari would go as an elite specialization…maybe even to the Ritualist on the condition that the mechanic would be to alter the nature of the tablet by infusing it with the power of a different legend.

Like say ….. infuse Ventari’s tablet with Malyx’s demonic energy and turn it into a ranged condi weapon that gives resistance to nearby allies.

Replacing not expanding. Leave elite specs out of it.

But nothing is changed within the actual stance….the only reason why I’d put it at elite is so you can get an F2 that changes the purpose of the tablet – which counters Centaur Stance’s original weakness – being locked out of our selfish abilities (self heal,stun breakers etc)

This doesn’t fix. The core has to not rely on the elite.

But based on the current status of Revenant that is simply not true, the core is useless without the Elite!

Look I agree that there are things that can be done to fix Ventari without making it an elite, but as part of the core using Ventari involves a masive change of playstyle via the mechanic of legend swaping – from selfless Martyr where you sacrifice both self sustain and personal defense in order to sustain the team to either condi masochist (malyx), which for me is basicaly punishing myself by taking on loads of condis with Pain Absorb, selfish bloke (shiro) which restore some of the defenses and self sustain you lost and exploration mode (Jallis).

Basicaly what I am trying to say is that due to the absence of legend swap, classes such as Ranger and Elementalist have the option to create a more balanced set of utilitiess as opposed to Core and Herald Reventant (where the change of playstyle feels like a massive drug induced mood swing) and that by making Ventari part of an elite spec it would be easier to balance the core around the massive change in play style promoted by Ventari.

Almost pointless edit: I apologize to the fans of Jallis who were upset by the labbel I gave it but I have no ideea how else to labbel Jallis for end game

Daniel Handler.4816:

Whatever legend you dream up, it won’t have a healing weapon to replace the loss of shield. Or give perma protection by spamming ventari’s will

Actualy I can…my take on Ritualist involves altering the properties of Ventari’s tablet by chaneling the power of an aditional legend into it….basicaly by channeling both the power of Ventari and Jallis into the tablet, Ventari’s will can be altered to mimic the effects of Ventari’s Will with Bolster Fortification. -thats perma protection fixed now on to the healing weapon – ranged mh dagger with a combo field blast on 3 + a water combo field from whatever legend replaces Ventari in core (yeah I replaced shield with a hipothethic second healing legend for core – I am that dull).

I guess I’m not explaining well enough.

The entire point of this discussion has been to make ventari viable with Glint.

The core not relying on the elite does not mean that running only core specs will be viable. It means that core stances should have a viable spec with every elite spec.

Replacing Glint/ventari with ritualist/ventari is not fixing.

Now I understand what you mean!

Now to clear the things I probably didn’t explain properly.
First off Ventari=Ritualist, ritualist mechanic involves adding the power of a legend of your choice towards the power of the tablet.

Secondly from my perspective the discussion is about Ventari/X where X can be any legend,not just Glint.

Side note: I care more about the instances where X isn’t Glint because in Revenant’s current state the core is useless without Herald….so regardless of changes made to Salvation or the numbers on Ventari’s skills, Glint/X will still be op when compared to runing just core legends….at least until the next specialization.

Third point the reason why I recomend that Ritualist=Ventari, is because core specialization features too few balanced legends and too many ghimicky legends, namely:

• Malyx (jack of all trades regarding conditions and master of boon removal – at the cost of defenses)
• Jallis (the pve only legend that has 2 ghimicks in pvp:inspiring reinforcement to secure finishing blow and out of combat casting of elite prior to zerg collisions)
• Ventari the biggest and most fun ghimick in the whole game second only to condi guardian (which is a big,but borring ghimick as far as I am concerned).

I would argue that Shiro is the only balanced legend within Core Revenant, because it features, an offensive utility, a defensive utility, imposible odds which is usefull offensively for the buffs to AA and for speeding cast times and finaly the ability to make all of Shiro’s strong points irelevant by casting Phase Travel to gain a temporary mobility boost. I think we need 1 more legend similar to this for core Revenant….but for now let’s agree to disagree on the whole Ventari=Ritualist and Ventari/Ritualist stuff.

Final and most personal reason….Ventari feels like it should belong to a class focused on fighting in the backline, so you can see better which segment of the front line needs the healing from the stone more.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Now I understand what you mean!

Now to clear the things I probably didn’t explain properly.
First off Ventari=Ritualist, ritualist mechanic involves adding the power of a legend of your choice towards the power of the tablet.

Secondly from my perspective the discussion is about Ventari/X where X can be any legend,not just Glint.

Side note: I care more about the instances where X isn’t Glint because in Revenant’s current state the core is useless without Herald….so regardless of changes made to Salvation or the numbers on Ventari’s skills, Glint/X will still be op when compared to runing just core legends….at least until the next specialization.

Third point the reason why I recomend that Ritualist=Ventari, is because core specialization features too few balanced legends and too many ghimicky legends, namely:

• Malyx (kitten all trades regarding conditions and master of boon removal – at the cost of defenses)
• Jallis (the pve only legend that has 2 ghimicks in pvp:inspiring reinforcement to secure finishing blow and out of combat casting of elite prior to zerg collisions)
• Ventari the biggest and most fun ghimick in the whole game second only to condi guardian (which is a big,but borring ghimick as far as I am concerned).

I would argue that Shiro is the only balanced legend within Core Revenant, because it features, an offensive utility, a defensive utility, imposible odds which is usefull offensively for the buffs to AA and for speeding cast times and finaly the ability to make all of Shiro’s strong points irelevant by casting Phase Travel to gain a temporary mobility boost. I think we need 1 more legend similar to this for core Revenant….but for now let’s agree to disagree on the whole Ventari=Ritualist and Ventari/Ritualist stuff.

Well if that is your goal then here are the combinations

• ventari/Glint is a sustained version of auramancy that suffers because it doesn’t have the burst heals, radius, or water fields.
• ventari/malyx is a sustained version of A/T condition druid that suffers because self-sustain is low, and it has no stunbreakers.
• ventari/jalis is a sustained version of bunker guardian that suffers because it can’t heal and give stability at the same time.
• ventari/shiro has no equivalents. But compare it to water attunement or engie kits, where accessing a healing rotation does not significantly impact the ability to dps/stun break.

How would you change this with ritualist?

Be warned the point to revenant is to sustain abilities with lower potency but shorter cooldown/longer duration. To achieve this, energy limits the amount of abilities you can sustain. For example I can get perma projectile destruction with Ventari and hammer, and I can sustain 2k hps on allies with Ventari, I can’t do both at the same time.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Now I understand what you mean!

Now to clear the things I probably didn’t explain properly.
First off Ventari=Ritualist, ritualist mechanic involves adding the power of a legend of your choice towards the power of the tablet.

Secondly from my perspective the discussion is about Ventari/X where X can be any legend,not just Glint.

Side note: I care more about the instances where X isn’t Glint because in Revenant’s current state the core is useless without Herald….so regardless of changes made to Salvation or the numbers on Ventari’s skills, Glint/X will still be op when compared to runing just core legends….at least until the next specialization.

Third point the reason why I recomend that Ritualist=Ventari, is because core specialization features too few balanced legends and too many ghimicky legends, namely:

• Malyx (kitten all trades regarding conditions and master of boon removal – at the cost of defenses)
• Jallis (the pve only legend that has 2 ghimicks in pvp:inspiring reinforcement to secure finishing blow and out of combat casting of elite prior to zerg collisions)
• Ventari the biggest and most fun ghimick in the whole game second only to condi guardian (which is a big,but borring ghimick as far as I am concerned).

I would argue that Shiro is the only balanced legend within Core Revenant, because it features, an offensive utility, a defensive utility, imposible odds which is usefull offensively for the buffs to AA and for speeding cast times and finaly the ability to make all of Shiro’s strong points irelevant by casting Phase Travel to gain a temporary mobility boost. I think we need 1 more legend similar to this for core Revenant….but for now let’s agree to disagree on the whole Ventari=Ritualist and Ventari/Ritualist stuff.

Well if that is your goal then here are the combinations

• ventari/Glint is a sustained version of auramancy that suffers because it doesn’t have the burst heals, radius, or water fields.
• ventari/malyx is a sustained version of A/T condition druid that suffers because self-sustain is low, and it has no stunbreakers.
• ventari/jalis is a sustained version of bunker guardian that suffers because it can’t heal and give stability at the same time.
• ventari/shiro has no equivalents. But compare it to water attunement or engie kits, where accessing a healing rotation does not significantly impact the ability to dps/stun break.

How would you change this with ritualist?

To determine the changes within the combinations you listed,I first need to clarify the mechanic of Ritualist and how it will interact with it’s legend, Ventari.

• the ritualist mechanic involves chosing one “infussion” type ability and bind it to F2
• infussion skills can only be activated while the tablet is up, via a trait within the Ritualist line
• by ignoring whatever healing legend replaces Ventari within core Revenant and Glint which belongs to a different Elite Spec there are 3 “infussion” type skills from which you can chose, 1 for Malyx – called Demonic Infusion, 1 for Jallis -Called Runic Power Infusion and 1 for Shiro – will be known as Jade Infusion until I can think of a better name
• after activating the f2, there are 2 ways to revert the tablet to it’s original form: the first one is legend swaping, the second one is using the elite skill from Ventari, AFTER casting the F2.
  *the cooldown for the F2 is 25 seconds and has an upkeep of -2

Now to discuss how the infusions change the tablet.
a) Demonic Infussion: the utilities from Centaur Stance will apply conditions to nearby enemies – said conditions are:

• blind on Ventari’s will
• 5 pulses of chilled(duration 1 sec) per sec to 5 targets on activating protective solace and the combo field is now dark
• natural harmony will burn nearby enemies when it finishes casting the heal for 526 damage over 4 seconds
• Purifying Essence will Torment nearby enemies
• using Energy Expulsion while Demonic Infussion is up will grant Resistance to allies near the resummoned tablet (2 sec duration?-not sure here).

b) Runic Infusion: tablet skills will apply boons to nearby allies or create combo fields:

• ventari’s will shall give protection for the same duration as Herald Shield
• Protective Solace will apply Stability to allies within the combo field (combo field should be ,lighting and the duration of the stability will be 1.25)
• Puryfing Essence will generate a water field which lasts for 2 seconds, natural harmony will apply Regeneration
• Energy Expulsion while Runic Infussion is up will stun break nearby allies

I have still not determined how Jade infusion will interact with Ventari’s tablet so I will stop here….most of the stuff here were ideeas I never had the opportunity to explore as much as I wanted due to real life obligations.

Combining Legends is still a whole lot of work for not a lot of benefit. A simpler solution is likely to be better overall, and more likely to be implemented.

One thing i want to change is make tablet spawn when i change to ventari legend. Why i need to press 2 button to start use ventari skills?

The tablet should be made a back item when using Ventari.