Guild Wars 2

This is my (quite long) feedback on the revenant currently. The main problem with the profession in my opinion is the mobility, casting time and energy management.

I’ll start off with my most annoying thing about the revenant: The casting time. Some skills are just too easy to dodge due the animation combined with the casting time such as hammer #5. Other skills are just too slow for it’s damage and almost any burst will negate you to counterburst due the slowness and just makes you instalose the fight due no mobility. This is a big issue on the hammer skills.

Hammer:

• #1 Auto attack is soooo slow. I almost feel like i’m tickling people by spamming 1. Whereas mesmer has good auto attack support, hammer just totally lacks on this part. This is due that the hammer attacks are not well designed for PvP. I feel like they work like mesmer attacks due the piercing, but deal a lot less damage, are slower and hit less time resulting in less ‘’crit sigil’’ procs. This all adds up into a very weak auto attack.
  My suggestion: Reduce the casting time to 0,5 seconds. This skill should have it’s casting time by traveling, not by casting it.

• #2 With such low cooldown and energy usage there’s almost no reason to not use this skill if it’s not on cooldown. Meaning it almost replaces the auto attack. While I absolutely hate how much certain skills cost of energy, this skill surely could be improved. Sadly there’s no CC effect that knock enemies up in the air, so I’d say: increase the cooldown to 6 seconds, increase the energy cost to 10, give every pulse a stun that increases it’s duration (0.5 – 1 – 1.5) with range and reduce the casting time to 0.25 seconds. This skill should have it’s casting time by traveling to the enemy, not by casting it.

• #3 This skill is nice, but lacks some things. For example it causes you to eat all damage on the way and it’s very slow while it’s effects aren’t that amazing. In general the skill needs an evade during the cast so you don’t eat all damage on the way. This skill can be made into 2 things imo:
  1. Allow skills be casted during the cast of phase smash. Like this you can combo it with other skills to create very long casting skills and with it’s cooldown this opens up the possibility to make skilled combo’s. Along with this the casting time needs a reduction to 0,75-1 second.
  Or:
  2. Reduce the casting time to 0,25 seconds and make it so you actually leap to the place and stay there, rather than leaping back. Cause chill on the starting spot of the leap, cause blast on the end and remove 1 condition.

• #4 The casting time… oh my… The absorb field feels a little bit buggy on the edges and it seems like you actually have to exactly face the enemy to block the projectiles. Honestly this skill should either be instant, or have a 0,25 seconds casting time. Like this you can react to certain skills much easier and combine it with the auto attack much better to life steal.

• #5 Well here we go again… Casting time: Once npc’s can side step your stuns you can be pretty sure something isn’t working as it should. The casting time should be around 0,75 seconds, the hammer drop down should require 0,5 seconds making the skill go 0,5 seconds faster and being able to cast during the hammer drop down time. Like this you can combine this skill with #2 much better and makes it a little bit harder to dodge since currently it can even be side stepped so easily.

In this post I’ll be talking about staff and it’s lacklusters. You can find my feedback about hammer in my previous post.

Staff is designed as a very supportive weapon with some new mechanics for healing. Though the skills are pretty lackluster on what they do.

Staff:

• #1: The auto attack is nice but feels slow and weak in damage. The scaling on power could be improved and the casting time overall could need a small improvement of 0,25 seconds.

• #2 Honestly the worst skill on the weapon, if not the worst and boring skill in game right now. The first part makes no sense. The damage is very poor and the casting time is pretty long as it does nothing besides damage. The 2nd attack is also very bad as it’s casting time is very long, the damage is poor and the weakness is so short it’s not even worth casting it. In my opinion the first part should be removed or the second part should give a 5 seconds weakness and protection around you for 5 seconds. In both cases the casting time should be 0,5-0,75 seconds for both skills.

• #3 Wait… Block and blind at once? What’s the point of that? Rather make it so you heal yourself and your allies for each block you get and remove the blind part or give blind to the enemy every time you block an attack of them. That way you can stand near an ally and blind 1/2 of their aoe attacks.

• #4 This skill should be able to cast during running and have it’s energy cost be reduced to 10. With such high cooldown it shouldn’t also have such high energy cost. Increase the radius to 600 too. I understand the ventari is based on short range heals, but with the current mobility the range surely needs to be improved as your ally is most likely already dead before you can even get to him to heal him.

• #5 Good skill. No changes here.

I’ll continue with ventari as this legend is pretty bound to have with staff.It’s a very supportive legend and I like it a lot. The heals aren’t instant so you will need to look at your health bar constantly and due the fact that it doesn’t really have one skill that burst heals you for 5-6k it certainly requires you to keep your health high all the time for possible burst. My biggest issue on this legend is the synergy between skills and the energy management of certain skills.

Ventari:

• Ventari’s tablet (project tranquility + ventari’s will): I love the tablet, but sometimes it just annoys me how bound I am to keep spamming 6 and not being able to do anything else. While the healing is very nice I don’t feel like pressing anything else besides natural harmony and very sometimes protective solance for some projectile absorbtion. This skill shouldn’t have a casting time. It should work with all other skills and be able to move during your casting. This certainly still requires you to spam 6, but during this you can do all other skills. Along with this the speed the tablet moves needs to be increased by 33%, it’s range needs to be increased to 1200 units, it should have a slightly longer cooldown (4 seconds) and along with the higher cooldown it should have a 25% healing increase. This should make it work much smoother and less bound to spamming 6 and have it’s energy cost go down by just keeping it with you.

• Protective Solace: Increase radius to 300. 240 is way too small. Other than that it’s a fun skill.

• Natural Harmony: Amazing skill and has great synergy with the tablet skill. No changes here.

• Ourifying essence: This skill should work like natural harmony but with 1 second delay instead of 2 seconds and it should have 25 energy cost. After all, it heals much less than natural harmony even with all condition removed and it only heals once it removes conditions. I honestly feel like I’m lacking so much energy while playing ventari. I’ll be healing allies, but once I need to strip conditions I don’t have enough energy to strip them. Maybe also give resistance to the allies once you strip 3 conditions off them. Like this you can prevent a condition burst on your ally giving great support what currently is not in the game yet.

• Elite – Energy Expulsion: With my changes on the tablet, the tablet should be able to move while casting this making it an exploding moving tablet, which is much less obvious than it is now and much more skilled based. Along with this the casting time could need a reduction to 1.5 seconds as the energy cost is already very high.

This is my third feedback post about the current revenant and in this post I’ll be discussing the pro’s and cons of the mace and axe and about the legendary demon stance Mallyx.

You can find my feedback about hammer in my first post and feedback about staff and ventari in my second post.

Mace-Axe and mallyx are condition based. They’re all about close-mid range and like to cause a lot of chaos on the field. Though this sounds strong, it does lack some survivability and harassment.

Mace:

• #1 The auto attack is strong but could need some improvements on the base damage and scaling as it’s fairly weak with a power spec. The chaining effect on #3 could also need some improvement by making it a bounce skill instead of chainging towards targets right
  behind them as it’s pretty unreliable.

• #2 I don’t know what I find worse: The immense long casting time or the poor range of the skill. Since when is 480 a thing? This skill needs to be much faster on activation time (0,5 seconds) or be 600 units range. Either way it also needs a buff on the burning. Increase the burning to 2 burning ticks instead of 1. With the current damage modifier on burning this skill certainly needs a big buff. Another thing I’d like to change to this skill is the cd and the duration of the field. It doesn’t feel like it can be combined with stuns or immobilizes too much due the short duration. Increase the cooldown to 8 seconds and increase the time of the field to 6 seconds.

• #3 The skill is… decent. It surely looks better than it is in practice. The blast finishers can be counted as 1, unless you are blasting a big field like healing rain of elementalist. Other than that it does weak damage and… well.. nothing else. I’d suggest this skill to cause stun on hit. ( 1 second per hit)

Axe:

• #4 Nice skill, but it seems bugged as the final damage is not added into the game it seems. Fix this bug and immobilize the final target while still chilling targets passing through. This opens up a lot more synergy between skills.

• #5 Increase width to 360, Other than that it seems fine.

Mallyx:

• #6 Remove the self weakness or instead of healing for more conditions on you, heal more per condition transfered to an enemy. Like this the heal becomes offensive and allows you to to harass players more, though it makes the heal slightly weaker once you have no enemies around you to target. Give it 600 units range.

• #7 Pain Absorption: Reduce energy cost to 25 so you’re not bursting all your energy in 1 skill. It’s not even cleansing the conditions and might even hurt you more than it helps you or your allies. Not only that but it only transfers 1 condition. Might aswell make that 3 conditions and increase the self-resistance per condition by 1 second. Like that you can actually build up some decent resistance.

• #8 Banish Enchantment: Good skill. Might increase boon removal to 3.

• #9 Unyielding Anguish: Can’t synergize this skill with anything currently as far as I’m concerned at least. Though the skill is good, but the self-cripple needs to be removed. This negates all disengage possibility with the profession.

• # Elite is fine.

In this post I’ll be talking about the Legendary Dwarf Stance King Jalis. This legend is probably filled with the best designed skills so far on the revenant, which in my opinion is quite sad since this legend still lacks quite a bit. I feel like this legend is very WvW based, but can still cause some nice plays around being solo.

King Jalis

• #6 Soothing Stone : Good healing, nothing to change.

• #7 Inspiring Reinforcement: Nice skill. Only thing I dislike is the speed of the path being thrown down, but can live with that.

• #8 Forced Engagement: Pardon me? 50 energy is way too much for this skill. We’re talking about a 2 seconds stun that can be evaded quite easily, has a fairly long cooldown, is single target and pretty much does nothing besides that. You would need to have an ally being able to smash this person, because you’re literally out of energy after casting this skill unless you have been enjoying spamming 1 for the past 5-10 seconds. The energy cost needs to be reduced to 40, maybe even 35 and have a 0.25 casting time reduction.

• #9 Vengeful Hammers: For a ranged legend this skill feels so wierd. It doesn’t really deal much damage and overall it just doesn’t do much actually. It’s not like an enemy is gonna back off for a bit till you have put your swinging hammers on the ground. I would probably add a low duration cripple on it and increase the radius to 240 so you can run away and hit your enemy while he tries to get to you. This should help ranged specs a bit with the survival but also makes it easier to land your attacks on hammer, easier to keep your enemy closer with you in your fire field on your mace and easier to keep them with you so you can get your staff auto attacks off.

• #0 Elite: The description needs to be a lot clearer and it’s casting time could definitely get a reduction. 2.75 seconds is so easy to interrupt and once that happens it’s pretty much GG because your energy should be super gone. I’d suggest somewhere around 1.5 seconds. The reason I leave this skill a bit like it is, is because I’m not 100% sure what it actually does and how it actually works. This is mainly cause of the bad description.

I agree with most of the stuff you said. I’d add something to Demon stance to counter the fact that party dungeons have a lot of condi cleanse, so all the skill/traits with “3 conditions” treshold are almost useless.

Good thread. I’d like your suggestions to be implemented. Still Revenant would be weak, but playable.

Also dwarf elite must be changed. Has a huge energy cost and a low duration, so the huge channeling time makes no sense. Also if you get interrupted (and that’s very likely) you lose all your energy and you pretty much can’t do anything.

EDIT: you added it, nice

I agree with literally everything in this thread so far. I’m glad it got Roy’s attention. Of all the Rev revision threads out there right now, I think this one has the most thorough and best thought out suggestions.

I feel like the skills that turn you into mist should have evade frames (i.e. hammer 3 and staff 5). And I definitely agree that staff needs better power scaling. It’s a super fun weapon to use but even in zerker gear crits are weaker than cleric guardian staff.

Love all the feedback in the OP besides maybe mace 2 with the 8 sec CD with the 6 sec duration.

Not because it’s too strong, but because of how fast people can get out of it.

You put down the field, they walk out of it and even cripple they would barely take any damage really.

I prefer the low CD spammable version so you can keep reacting to peoples movement alot more.

But I do agree it’s weak in damage.

bolded the main subjects of each bullet point for readability’s sake. anything i haven’t mentioned (like mace 2’s atrocious cast time), i agree with OP, or at least don’t disagree.

• my main complaint with the ventari legend is that you have to choose between microing the tablet, and actually taking part in the fight, since all the casts are tied to the revenant. i think the ventari legend’s viability would improve tenfold if all the casts were bound to the tablet, while the revenant himself gets to use his weapon skills at the same time (so exactly how ranger works right now). if the tablet and the revenant were treated as separate entities with their own cast times, i’d wager you wouldn’t even have to change the odd cast times the legend has.

• i pretty much agree with OP’s staff points. one thing i’d like to add is work on the animation. as it is, the auto attack looks like it has less range than a sword or GS, even though it has the same range.

• staff is a good defensive kit. i think with some tweaks to power scaling, and a new #2 skill, it could be a nice weapon for damage. kinda like a different flavor of ranger GS.

• hammer turned out as a pretty decent WvW weapon. in fact, the only one i could make work, since the revenant mobility is so atrociously bad that i couldn’t be part of the melee team if i wanted to, and i was constantly playing catch-up to my group, unless we had stacked enough swiftness beforehand. during WvW i also felt like i was forced to camp jalis, as the other legends just didn’t work well for WvW (ventari mostly because of what i mentioned above)

• hammer #3 suffers from verticality issues. if i’m slightly above or below my target area, my attack won’t connect, which is very frustrating when you’re trying to chill the enemy team and you’re not fighting on a flat area.

• overall my main problem with the legends is that none of them seem to have any synergy between themselves. you want to play condi? you’ll want mallyx mace/axe, and you might swap to jalis to cleanse those condis you stacked on yourself so you can heal. i feel like jalis will be the go-to second legend, and will only be used situationally. the way the revenant is currently set up, swapping back and forth between legends is counterproductive, as you abandon your build’s playstyle for 10 seconds, and then go back to it. camping a single legend instead of the back and forth between legends seems like ignoring half of the profession, and not giving enough reason to justify the fact that revenant has no weapon swaps (which severely cripples the profession, since it doesn’t have the mobility or sticking power, or even the CC, to stay in melee).

Functionality I would love to see on Rev:

I like the idea of not swapping weapons. Works since both warrior and guardian swap weapons. Both Ranger and Thief Swap but Engy doesnt. Both Mesmer and Necro swap but Ele doesnt so it gives a Soldier Profession that doesnt swap. Also nice to have a 3rd Soldier option to round everything out.

That said: I agree with others and feel the class should have different functionality in each form given the weapon your holding (like Ele does in a way, or Engy Kits do, but still keeping the class to its own unique abilty in forms)

Jalis Dwarf Mode: Tanky Support type skills, Knockdown, Self Block, taunt, stun, self Protection, self Condi Remove, Etc., stability — // Being in this form should reduce the damage taken of self by 10% while the form is active.

Jalis Ironhammer was stoic and channeling this form you should be strong and exceptionally difficult to kill.

Ventari Mode: Healing, Regen, Barrier/Block Shields, Group Protection, Group Condi Removes, Resistance. Have the tablet follow you if you get out of range and stay in range. once it reaches ‘in range like 1200 feet away it stops and you can order it to pass through people’ —// Being in this form should increase the amount of healing done to others by 20% and /or possibly increase Boon duration as well (perhaps a talent)

Channeling Ventari is fitting to be of nature and renewal of others. Helping and compassion for others.

Shiro Mode – Physical High dps skills, tons of power damage, possibly fury/quickness, might, critical hit options (talents), evasive style of moves — // Being in this form should increase damage or critical hit chance by some amount – perhaps talented options to add nearby player options like increased critical hit or ferocity

Channeling Shiro – Critical hits and Ferocity to increase effectiveness of crits seem to fit Shiro as Power is one thing alone, but perfection of blades and study of Masterfully using them definitely gives the feel of this mode.

Demon/Mallyx Mode: Condition Based Dps – Ranged condi on hammer, and other condi+curse options — // Being in this form should increase condition duration and/or condition damage (perhaps add one with a talent and have one be the base effect)

Demon/Mallyx Mode: In this form you should definitely get the feel of being an accursed burden to your enemies. Appearance of Dark & Black Magic and cursed conditions drain away the life of your enemies as they suffer your existence.

Kite options on ranged weapons. Gap closer on melee weapons. and Mobility options , swiftness and a leap or something.

I don’t necessarily agree with the re-work suggestions, but the problems with the skills are spot-on.

Agreed that mobility is a huge issue. And yes, I’ve tested what you said about hammer verticality, it’s bad if I’m not on the same height as the enemy.

I also agree with pretty much everything that’s being said here, it’s spot on! I planned on writing my own feedback at first, but seeing how it would be similar to this, I didn’t see much of a point in creating two almost identical threads

I love playing the Revenant though, it gives some interesting ways to play and the animations are rather nice. IMO the utilities also seem rather interesting and useful though some of them still require some work.

As the weapons seem heavily build around certain legends, it’d be nice to see certain skills change depending on the legend. Maybe in a form of certain conditions/boons it gives, or then certain skills that change altogether.

First of all, I really enjoy the Revenant. He feels unique, especially Hammer and Mace/axe

But in pvp he plays like a nightmare, for example:

I tried a dozen builds to get good use out of my Hammer (full zerker, mixed dmg, bunker, ventary-support) but every time a thief/ranger or Mesmer got in melee-range I died so quickly. I have no chance to kite like an engi/ele or reposition like a mesmer/thief/ranger or tank like a warrior/guardian or just nuke the enemy down and of course I have no kits and weapon-swap to a more appropriate weapon…
For now the Revenant has no solid blocks, jumps, teleports, invis or fast cc (exzept unyielding anguish)

Specializations:
Every other class has good synergy with the utility-skills (CD-reduce, condi-removel, bufstacking,…) but most revenant-traits feel uninspired (random small heal on anything). Only 2-3 traits interact with skills. The Revenenat-traits are meaningless and don’t define the playstyle.

Wishes
I wish skill/trait-choices for jalis, that can turn the revenant into a real bunker. A Hammer with a real off-tank dmg.

RE on Staff 3: the blind projectiles aren’t fired off until after the block portion ends, so there isn’t that overlay between unnecessarily blinding people while you are still blocking.

Also, the piercing width of Hammer #1 is pretty large, and being a 100% projectile finisher, can cause some shenanigans with dark (~270 life siphon damage in zerks) light (multiple condi cleanse) and Aether (5s confusion) fields, of which Revs have three dark fields, one of which is Hammer #4. I wonder if that’s why they have the damage and attack speed set the way they are?

Otherwise good suggestions all around, would read again.

I noticed that some skills of the hammer does not have the range that is given in the discription. Skill #1, #2, #3 and #5 have 1200 units range (as said in the discribtion) but skill #2 and #3 dont reach the given range (or #1 and #5 have a higher range as intended). I can hit an immobile enemy with #1 and #5 but if i use #2 or #3 in the same situation (didn’t move after #1) they dont hit the target even if their animation reache it.

Okay, now that this thread has Roy’s attention, I’m going to copy-past my impressions and feedback from the monstrous merge thread. I’m excited for the revenant, and I enjoyed it overall, but it had several issues:

Staff/ Ventari

1. AA’s healing shards disappear too quickly. Make them last ~1 second longer.
2. AA’s healing shards are sometimes placed in awkward situations, where you must turn your back and cancel your auto-attacking to catch a shard.
3. Block skill should deal some damage back (projectile reflection or something else). It’s a cool skill, but it could have been a bit more impactful, I think.
4. Having to press two buttons (F1 + 6) for the tablet is clumsy. Make it respawn instantly by your side by pressing F1.
5. Perfectionist players will want to spam the 2-sec heal as fast as possible, to keep the HPS as high as possible, leading to a frustating playstyle. Give it a 4-8 second cooldown instead, but with stronger healing per use.

Hammer

1. Skills feel slow and unrewarding. Either make them faster, or increase their DPS.
2. Clumsy in melee scenarios. It would be nice if it got some sort of knockback or leap backwards. The leap backward effect could be placed on the barrier skill, kind of like League of Legend’s Yasuo’s Wind Wall.
3. The second skill could add a cripple to nearby enemies while retaining the higher damage at range effect.
4. Perhaps chill’s duration could be 1 second higher as well.

Jalis:

1. The taunt skill costs half of your energy bar, has a 1 second casting time, yet it ends before you can even see it (/hyperbole, kinda). That 2 second duration is really, really underwhelming. I do like the idea of a high energy skill, though. Make the taunt last 4 seconds instead, and that might not even be enough.
2. The elite skill’s casting time is too long. Make it 1-1.5 seconds shorter. Increase its energy cost if needed.

Mallyx:

1. The combo costs too much energy. It seems fun on paper having to chain all those condis on you, but you spend so much of your energy that you’re left with an elite skill that barely lasts 3-ish seconds. And that’s no fun, considering how cool the elite is meant to be when used after/ alongside your other self-condi skills.

Long cast times and long cool downs make for less dynamic combat on the revenant. OP makes good points and cast times definitely need to be reduced. Also, managing both energy costs and waiting on long cool downs and no weapon swap makes it difficult to react to different situations during combat. As it is now you cannot pick and choose your utility skills and you are stuck with the skills the channeled legend has. Even if you do very good at managing your energy and you really need to use a skill and it is on CD you are out of luck.

Energy and its management is a core mechanic of the revenant so I suggest traditional CDs not limit the revenant. Instead of traditional CDs, skills should increase in energy cost during their CD period. Compound the energy cost the more the same skill is used during its CD so as to prevent spamming. This, I believe, would encourage a different more skillful playstyle. Good energy management should make a good revenant shine.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Mallyx:

1. The combo costs too much energy. It seems fun on paper having to chain all those condis on you, but you spend so much of your energy that you’re left with an elite skill that barely lasts 3-ish seconds. And that’s no fun, considering how cool the elite is meant to be when used after/ alongside your other self-condi skills.

been playing condi revenant on sPvP, and this, so much this. i can barely get a pulse after pulling the condis to me, because of the combined energy cost, unless i sit in mallyx while in combat not doing anything just to get my energy up.

the energy management feels really clunky right now, with a lot of numbers that seem to be balanced around having full energy, but full energy never really being attained if the player is in any mildly challenging fight, because you’ll be swapping legends and using utilities constantly (especially since we only have 5 weapon skills, and most of them are quite underwhelming >.> ). mallyx is the worst offender. his utilities are good, but you can’t stay in mallyx for more than 10 seconds before you run out of energy. i don’t even use jalis’ upkeep skill because it takes me forever to cast it, it’s pretty lame, and it eats my energy, which i’ll be mostly building up so i can use the other skills.

I played a bit of pve in Orr, and these are my thoughts…

In general: Sooo slow… forget ventari’s tablet, how about channeling his runspeed?

Without weapon swap, there really is only one viable weapon, the hammer. No one wants to be melee only.

The traits are kinda boring. The damage in general feels low, and even in soldiers, you go squish pretty quick. But that may have more to do with defensive traits being fairly worthless….

Staff#1, damage feels low. 130 range is meh, 240 plz. The healing crystals are ok.

Staff#2, should be called the Sylvia Brown; you have to be a psychic to use it, you’ll usually get it wrong, but when you are right, you’ll want to tell everyone.

Bad skill, to slow to be useful, and it’s just weird.

Staff#3, spin looks ok, wouldn’t be bad if it lasted longer, the blind is unpredictable.

Staff#4, nice heal/condi cleanse. Good cooldown. I like it!

Staff#5, not the greatest, not a gap closer, good damage. It’ll do.

Mace#1, Lovin’it

Mace#2, the cast time is horrible, and slows everything down.
Considering the cast time, it might be a loss of damage over just auto attacking, but in the least, it’s so hard to land, there’s no way this will ever be good.

…the burning could certainly last longer, and if the field is going to be that narrow, it may as well be an instant cast skill.

Mace#3, Lovin’it. The triple blast… yummy.

Axe#4, I wish this had no cooldown, making it similar to a D/P thief’s #3 attack.

Axe#5, It’s a decent interrupt, but the whole “pulling” is not really… it’s weird.

Hammer#1, either a little weak, or the attack speed is a little slow.
Hammer#2, it’s ok.
Hammer#3, I like it, and combined with #2, revenant becomes a decent tagger in zergs.
Hammer#4, I’d like it to last longer, but I understand why it doesn’t. An animation bug, where when combo’d with #3, looks like a small army leaping… you guys should keep that. Or have #3 leap, a smoke version of the player, at each mob in the landing area.
Hammer#5, long cast, slow animation…. big ol’ hammer of meh.

Ventari: The tablet is good, but the #5 skill, I’ll never use.
Long cast, meager results, complicated.

Jalis: Forced Engagement is expensive and kinda pointless.
Rite of the Great Dwarf… there are times when this may be awesome…
The hammers are kinda weak – OR – kinda energy intensive.

Mallyx: Emrace the darkness…. greatest animation ever!

Builds:

-Staff didn’t really work that well, the crystals are hard to see with particle effects, and the wrong people keep stepping on them. Staff #2 is worthless IMO. Over-all, the damage is just too low.

all-in-all, it’s not much of a ‘power pole’; it didn’t even extend…

-I liked the mace/axe condi build, but the Mace #2 was just too slow to use, and kinda ruined it. It’s not much of a condi stacking build, but it seemed to ‘get by’ in pve.

-Hammer/ventari tablet is pretty solid, and if I had to play today, this is how I’d do it. Good group support. Low but acceptable damage. Decent tagging for groups.

Edit: spacing

I guess this is as good a place as any. I was in a stronghold match in 1v1 with a hammer revenant (Jalis) while I was on a thief.

My setup was not really dishing out optimal damage either, however, I could see him using plenty of skills and they literally did nothing to me. The 1 skill, or auto attack, when it hit (which didn’t happen that often) I just brushed it off… I could swear the rotating hammers attack didn’t do any damage to me either.

I didn’t try standing still but I legitimately thought that I probably could have won like that. I mean I was fighting an actual player but it felt like I was fighting a bit smarter than average NPC. The coolest thing in that fight was when he trapped me inside his directional shield to actually land one of his attacks. The hammer seems to be a weapon that is supposed to be used from range, but it was so easy to not let him do that. He was literally toothless.

Staff 3 and 5 should have Combo finishers: whirl.

On the ventari tablet, skill 7 should remain with a 240. 300 would be too OP. I just tested my revenant on Aetherpath (the ooze puzzle is the best scenario to test reflects in the entire game) and the that tablet works perfectly there. Moving wasn’t too hard neither.

The skill 5 from the tablet is awesome since you can just re-cast a new tablet instantly. I like that, don’t change it. The skill 3, though, I never used it to heal. I found more useful swapping to Jalis, healing with 6 and 0 and then going back to ventari and get a new tablet once healed.

i’ll say, i was one of those people that thought revenant had way too much energy when i saw him in the early betas, but seeing him in a PvP scenario, he just has to burn all that energy like crazy, because his weapon skills are too limited. the build variety is pitiful, and the flexibility within the very, very few build options is just as bad. no mobility and active defenses (or even passive defenses), coupled with a ranged weapon that performs horribly in melee and alright at best at range make the revenant a sitting duck a lot of the time, burning through utilities to last a bit longer. it’s a problem i don’t see being solved even as i notice my own improvement with the profession.

and yes, we haven’t seen all the revenant options yet, but giving new options won’t solve the problems with the current ones.

oh and one more problem, which was raised in the awesome reddit thread: the traitlines are too isolated from each other. they have no play between them, and are too narrow-focused. as a result, you’ll always pick up the two trait lines corresponding to the legends you chose, and then invocation.

speaking of traitlines, “gain toughness based on healing power” is a really, really bad trait, minor or not. healing power is a stat that has 0 at base, and 90% of builds won’t have a droplet of it because it scales so poorly, so the only people that would be mildly interested in that trait, even if it was something likt a 50% conversion ratio, are super healer builds (full clerics only gives ~1000 healing power). i suggest making it the other way around: gain healing power based on toughness. then it’ll be a trait that even with only 10% conversion, will see a bit more use on most builds, making that trait line a bit more interesting to people that don’t pick ventari.

As far as Mallyx goes, I like it’s skills but Unyielding Anguish kittenes off too many players and whenever I use it, I get cussed out, even when it was an accidental case. Now, I just use UA to place the field in more of a defensive role and just place it’s combo field on ranged attackers for it’s lifesteal properties. Though it’s when world boss fights when I’m doing that and they happen to walk in that field’s direction by mistake that kittenes everyone off and blames me, or “F’in Revenants.”

Other than that I think all of it’s skills synergize well with Jallis’s heal skill, but’s UA that needs a change.

BrunoBRS.5178:

bolded the main subjects of each bullet point for readability’s sake. anything i haven’t mentioned (like mace 2’s atrocious cast time), i agree with OP, or at least don’t disagree.

• my main complaint with the ventari legend is that you have to choose between microing the tablet, and actually taking part in the fight, since all the casts are tied to the revenant. i think the ventari legend’s viability would improve tenfold if all the casts were bound to the tablet, while the revenant himself gets to use his weapon skills at the same time (so exactly how ranger works right now). if the tablet and the revenant were treated as separate entities with their own cast times, i’d wager you wouldn’t even have to change the odd cast times the legend has.

• i pretty much agree with OP’s staff points. one thing i’d like to add is work on the animation. as it is, the auto attack looks like it has less range than a sword or GS, even though it has the same range.

• staff is a good defensive kit. i think with some tweaks to power scaling, and a new #2 skill, it could be a nice weapon for damage. kinda like a different flavor of ranger GS.

• hammer turned out as a pretty decent WvW weapon. in fact, the only one i could make work, since the revenant mobility is so atrociously bad that i couldn’t be part of the melee team if i wanted to, and i was constantly playing catch-up to my group, unless we had stacked enough swiftness beforehand. during WvW i also felt like i was forced to camp jalis, as the other legends just didn’t work well for WvW (ventari mostly because of what i mentioned above)

• hammer #3 suffers from verticality issues. if i’m slightly above or below my target area, my attack won’t connect, which is very frustrating when you’re trying to chill the enemy team and you’re not fighting on a flat area.

• overall my main problem with the legends is that none of them seem to have any synergy between themselves. you want to play condi? you’ll want mallyx mace/axe, and you might swap to jalis to cleanse those condis you stacked on yourself so you can heal. i feel like jalis will be the go-to second legend, and will only be used situationally. the way the revenant is currently set up, swapping back and forth between legends is counterproductive, as you abandon your build’s playstyle for 10 seconds, and then go back to it. camping a single legend instead of the back and forth between legends seems like ignoring half of the profession, and not giving enough reason to justify the fact that revenant has no weapon swaps (which severely cripples the profession, since it doesn’t have the mobility or sticking power, or even the CC, to stay in melee).

Well, we’re missing some legends and weapons, and that’s going to distort the value of swapping, but I also think it’s generally fine to want to stay in one legend and use the other more as needed; think of it a bit like weapon skill and utility bars being flipped, on other classes you don’t want to constantly cycle weapons unless it’s part of your rotation to do so, depending on what you’re doing you’ll stick with one weapon primarily and switch to the offset when needed. This isn’t much different.

As to synergies, having good synergies from multiple legends with the same weapon is a little more important, but there’s a decent amount of synergy between the Legends we have, though some of it’s buried by numbers being off. It’s more that Ventari and Mallyx both work well with Jalis, but not as much each other, so Jalis feels like a necessary swap. With the other legends, more options will crop up. But it’s stuff like Jalis and Ventari can both work well with staff and hammer, so, with some tweaking, you’ll have something like, if you’re going with a defensive/supporty melee spec, staff with Jalis/Ventari is what you go, and you’ll want to take things like Blinding Truths, and ranged support is hammer with the same, but you’ll take the outgoing heal buff instead of the blinds (regen is an option either way depending on gear), etc. Jalis/Mallyx should fit some sort of attrition build, but the condi damage output and uptime needs to be better.

Also, I think it maybe needs to be clearer that swapping Legends puts you back at 50 energy? You’re kind of meant to be jumping back and forth to help with energy management, I think, sort of like weapon swapping to cover cooldowns. Maybe weapon skill energy costs need to be looked at a little more closely with that, but it’s relatively minor number tweaking I think.

I agree with 99% of OP’s posts. Maybe not adding a bunch of stuns, but the rest is spot on.

Anyways, OP hit the specifics and we could say a little bit more about the current traits, I’d like to add a few general thoughts.

Weapon swap is a big concept. Mainly because you have to pick ranged OR melee and that’s a huge issue. If you pick melee you can and will get kited forever. If you pick ranged so you don’t get kited, you lack a lot of utility and damage as melee>range DPS.

Adding the swap opens up mace fire + blast + hammer blasting. Yes the attacks are too slow to land it all, and the fire field is too short, but I’m also thinking those two things will be addressed like OP suggested.

Rev mobility is horrible. I never thought there could be a class with worse mobility than the necro and here he is. The leap (demon9 unyielding anguish) cripple has to go to give us any hops of disengaging or catching a target and swiftness needs to be a thing. Our attacks are too slow to blast our lightning field (dwarf7 stability road) and the field itself spills out slower than walking pace. While the effect looks great, possibly make the AOE tick before the visual has hit the field so we can blast moving forward.

Weapon swap, damage (awaiting the missing traits and legend), and mobility. …And remove energy costs from weapon skills. We don’t have to be the best at any one of those, but we need to have some of all of those.

It’s fun right now, but not functional right now.

Honestly, I think this beta was more about funzies and giving some love to the ultimate buyers more than testing any new content seeing as not much has been added to the Rev since the first beta. And as far as this beta, I don’t see why you can’t earn rewards on a beta character if you’re playing in the live server. It’s a large deterrent to testing PvE when you don’t keep the source of the incentive to do the PvE. ..And why can’t I rep guild?

Eolirin.1830:

BrunoBRS.5178:

snip

Well, we’re missing some legends and weapons, and that’s going to distort the value of swapping, but I also think it’s generally fine to want to stay in one legend and use the other more as needed; think of it a bit like weapon skill and utility bars being flipped, on other classes you don’t want to constantly cycle weapons unless it’s part of your rotation to do so, depending on what you’re doing you’ll stick with one weapon primarily and switch to the offset when needed. This isn’t much different.

As to synergies, having good synergies from multiple legends with the same weapon is a little more important, but there’s a decent amount of synergy between the Legends we have, though some of it’s buried by numbers being off. It’s more that Ventari and Mallyx both work well with Jalis, but not as much each other, so Jalis feels like a necessary swap. With the other legends, more options will crop up. But it’s stuff like Jalis and Ventari can both work well with staff and hammer, so, with some tweaking, you’ll have something like, if you’re going with a defensive/supporty melee spec, staff with Jalis/Ventari is what you go, and you’ll want to take things like Blinding Truths, and ranged support is hammer with the same, but you’ll take the outgoing heal buff instead of the blinds (regen is an option either way depending on gear), etc. Jalis/Mallyx should fit some sort of attrition build, but the condi damage output and uptime needs to be better.

Also, I think it maybe needs to be clearer that swapping Legends puts you back at 50 energy? You’re kind of meant to be jumping back and forth to help with energy management, I think, sort of like weapon swapping to cover cooldowns. Maybe weapon skill energy costs need to be looked at a little more closely with that, but it’s relatively minor number tweaking I think.

like i said in another post, adding other legends and weapons won’t solve the problems with the current ones (which are like 70% of the base profession). the problem with camping a single legend is that you’re ignoring a lot of your full potential if you do that. the only profession i can think of that isn’t frequently swapping weapons is thief, because swapping weapons for them is kinda pointless, as they share the same initiative pool. revenant has an advantage in that they get a new energy pool every swap, but the skills between legends don’t converse with each other, and the skills within a legend take too much energy, forcing the revenant to just sorta autoattack while waiting for the bar to fill. you’re not managing energy (like a thief would be with initiative) as much as you’re waiting to have energy to manage in the first place.

it’s important to remember that it’s not “other legends”, it’s “other legend”, singular. we can’t judge a profession, even an expansion one, based on how it does with the elite spec, so we only have 4 legends to work with. 3 of them don’t converse with each other. jalis is a good situational legend, but both ventari and mallyx don’t work unless you’re camping the legend (ventari even more so, with how clunky the tablet is, since everything you need to do has a cast time followed by a delayed activation). if 3/4 of your profession has trouble with synergy, maybe it’s time to rethink some things.

the thing with legend swapping is that you’re kinda locked out of everything that makes your build work for at least 10 seconds when you do it, and when you get back, you’ll be back to 50% energy, which in most cases is enough for one, maybe two skills. and given how the revenant has by far the worst uptime of attack skills in the game, since it has no weapon swap equivalent (engis get kits and eles get attunements), revenants spend far too much time not really doing much, because utilities are expensive and the very few offensive skills are either on cooldown or situational.

I was thinking that a celestial mace/axe build with mallyx and jalis would work well, but lets be honest, revenant lacks the might stacking needed to really pull it off.

Gain might when struck with retal? Thats a good trait, but rev doesn’t have enough retal uptime to make it effective for building might.

I really like some of the suggestions made here, I think they would be great changes to the Rev. I posted this in another thread yesterday, but I figured it might be worth sharing here to see what you all think, so here goes:

Feedback:

The Revenant is really fun to play, to a point. It requires a bit more attention and management, which makes it more interesting and engaging, but there are some key holes in its design which detract from that. The main thing, to me, is that the legends have too little of an effect on the class and the traits actually work against the legends to an extent. For example, if you want to run a condition damage build, you’re pretty much useless when not using Mallyx. As soon as you switch to another legend, you’re “jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none”.

Also the Revenant straight up feels weak. I honestly don’t know why, it might just be traits, but I dissolved in PvP against any other class. Dungeons were loads of fun, but I went down a lot more than I do on any other class I play, even with full Zerker.

Proposals:

I think for every Legend while the weapons should have the same base damage and animation, but the additional effects (healing/condi/boons) change for each legend.

For example, when you use Mallyx, the weapons do condition damage, whilst when you use Ventari, the conditions in the attack change to healing/protection.

The same for traits, for example if a trait gives +10 Power when playing as Mallyx/Shiro, it should give +10 healing power when playing Ventari, or +10 toughness when playing Jallis. I wouldn’t do this for all traits, but have the selectable (square) traits each have a per-legend bonus. The balance wouldn’t be that simple I know, but it would make the legends way more useful in the game.

This may be a big ask, I don’t know, my programming knowledge is limited, but I think this would really make the revenant something special and interesting to play, rather than just being able to faceroll like you can with a few professions, especially in PvE.

As for the weakness, I think just a few (simple?) buffs here and there should be able to get it up to scratch with the other classes, but I appreciate it will take a while to get that right, and I don’t really mind if that’s after release, I mean, hell we’re still getting tweaks to all the other classes on the fly.

Only one thing I wanted to touch on here. I found that since I bind my heal button to my mouse moving the tablet around and keeping it where I wanted makes a huge difference.

Just food for thought.

I don’t like necessity of swapping legends for energy. The reason this is necessary is it is a significant source of energy regeneration (50 energy when you swap legends). I think it is fine to have builds that constantly swap legends, but it should also be suitable to have builds that are allowed to sit in a single legend for a period of time, swapping only for strategic uses rather than for more energy.

To solve this, I think energy cost of abilities should be reduced a bit, but swapping legends should no longer recover energy. Energy recovery on legend swap could be re-reintroduced as a trait (e.g. in the Invocation line).

I’ve seen a lot propose to have weapon skills to change according to specific Legendary Stances. I have even touched on the idea in another thread but it feels too much like the elementalist and, even if you only have 2 stances at once, you have multiple choices; it could end up giving even more attack skills to the Revenant than what the Elementalist has.

I have a two step suggestion to help with the weapon problem :

• Each weapon would have a ranged/AoE and melee version of their skills that depends on the Legend in use. Ventari could be ranged and Jallis melee for instance. Equipping 2 melee legends would be like equipping 2 melee weapon sets; changing Stances could refresh weapon skill to make it more like having 2 sets.
• Each stance would have a passive effect in addition to being ranged or melee. Some examples could be:
  - Ventari: create healing shards when you block attacks. Gain Healing Power (at the cost of Power?).
  - Jalis: gain Protection when critically hit. Gain Boon Duration (at the cost of Precision?).
  - Mallyx: Inflict bleeding on critical hits. Gain Condition Duration (at the cost of Toughness?).

If the stat gain is tied to a loss in another, it could be done in a way to give player choice more impact by making it a percentage. For instance, you could lose 10% of your Power and the amount lost is added to Healing Power while in Ventari’s stance; your ability to support others would be good even if your base build focuses heavily on Power. This does have more potential balance issues, that’s why I’m not sure about it.

I’ll say I agree with the assessment, maybe not necessarily with all of the suggested changes though.
My main reason for writing here is to emphasize one point that Bruno made:
“overall my main problem with the legends is that none of them seem to have any synergy between themselves. "

this rings too true and is also my biggest qualm with the class.
A typical class has a weapon swap, oftentimes one set is very focused on the goal of the build, while the second at the very least contributes.
Even the ele can have it such that the different attunements at the very least contribute to the same goal.
The revenant simply doesn’t get any sort of contribution from his other legend.

The fix is rather obvious: either each weapon needs to be able to contribute to multiple goals in mind, or each legend has to have some option (more utilities per legend?) to contribute to multiple goals in mind.

Examples of introducing synergy to the legends:
Mallyx ultility that applies torment but marks the target to “cry” dropping the healing orbs from staff (opponent now has to make a choice stay to reduce torment, or move to limit my team’s access to the healing orbs),
Jalis aoe support based on number of nearby foes (old gw1 warrior),
ventari could pulse prot for a few moments
Examples of introducing synergy to the weapons:
one of the hammer smashes drops the healing orbs

Basically the weapons needs to be somewhat versatile like an ele weapon set (much harder to do since you have 5 instead of 20 skills to work with)
or the legends ought to be somewhat flexible in the role they can do

make the venti tablet like a pet…and transfer the elite skill cast time to the tablet so you can combo the elite with movement 6

Nitross.6987:

I’ve seen a lot propose to have weapon skills to change according to specific Legendary Stances. I have even touched on the idea in another thread but it feels too much like the elementalist and, even if you only have 2 stances at once, you have multiple choices; it could end up giving even more attack skills to the Revenant than what the Elementalist has.

I have a two step suggestion to help with the weapon problem :

• Each weapon would have a ranged/AoE and melee version of their skills that depends on the Legend in use. Ventari could be ranged and Jallis melee for instance. Equipping 2 melee legends would be like equipping 2 melee weapon sets; changing Stances could refresh weapon skill to make it more like having 2 sets.
• Each stance would have a passive effect in addition to being ranged or melee. Some examples could be:
  - Ventari: create healing shards when you block attacks. Gain Healing Power (at the cost of Power?).
  - Jalis: gain Protection when critically hit. Gain Boon Duration (at the cost of Precision?).
  - Mallyx: Inflict bleeding on critical hits. Gain Condition Duration (at the cost of Toughness?).

If the stat gain is tied to a loss in another, it could be done in a way to give player choice more impact by making it a percentage. For instance, you could lose 10% of your Power and the amount lost is added to Healing Power while in Ventari’s stance; your ability to support others would be good even if your base build focuses heavily on Power. This does have more potential balance issues, that’s why I’m not sure about it.

This is kind of what I was going for. I think trying to avoid a heavy elementalist is important. I was wondering what you thought of my idea (just above in this thread, and more fleshed out here )

mace: it’s natural to combo 2 + 3 to blast the fire field but…

• #2 is ground targeted with no ground indicator – it needs one like warrior GS whirlwind, so you can pick where to cast it.
• #3 is enemy targeted – which makes it very difficult to place the blast and gives us no control over placement of additional blasts. Most often they hit nothing. I’d suggest making this ground targeted with a directional indicator like warrior GS whirlwind also.

I agree with keeping it unique and its own feel. Revenant needs to be something different in order to justify playing it vs other classes.

It is smart to keep it from being a Heavy Elementalist. Having utility skills change in addition to weapon skills to unique versions based on Legend Channeled would allow diverse play styling without needing weapon swapping and would provide a unique type of play not currently available on other classes because of the utility skills difference. There really wouldn’t be a need to have a full set of 20 utilities per Legend but say 5 choices for each one and the racial skills. With proper utilities and weapon skills it makes the class different in knowing which Legend to channel at what time.

The rest of the difference can be made up in weapon function which ranged hammer is already starting to pull off a unique weapon style. For versatility of people feeling trapped by Range vs Melee in one weapon without swapping, the same weapon could be ranged under a certain Legend and melee based in another.

This would make a fun dynamic in PvP and PvE because you could shift Legends based on the circumstances you are in and play differently to combat a person attempting to kite you vs a person attempting to keep you in melee range so they can lock you down. Or even to defend condition bunker vs melee bunker. Or switch from support/control based to damage.

A person fighting you in PvP would have to know how you function when they see a Legend switch and understand in this new legend you go from being ranged to a melee powerhouse so they would need to approach fighting you differently as well which is fun and challenging to shift perception.

From above:

" Each weapon would have a ranged/AoE and melee version of their skills that depends on the Legend in use. Ventari could be ranged and Jallis melee for instance. Equipping 2 melee legends would be like equipping 2 melee weapon sets; changing Stances could refresh weapon skill to make it more like having 2 sets."

- I love this idea, it is exactly what i am talking about. Also like the idea about stances having passive effects. Many great ideas in this thread. To the devs, I love the visual effects and what you have done thus far working on the class and the ideas of these great people here are solid. Weighted and combined, they make the class that would be superb on launch, take time and get it great and thanks for the fun.

I agree with what has been said about this new class and the Skills and weapons combos. I just thought I would add that maybe in the next beta you could give us a bigger inventory, I love that we have several sets of armor to use and I have really tried some different combos, I think in PvE it has helped in the process of getting the most out of my skills with this class. I know we don’t get to keep anything but hate to get rid of anything either. It has been really helpful in trying out new combinations instead of my usual power/zerker builds etc. It’s really helped me think outside my usual builds and not having to go buy it has helped. I have had a blast playing the Revenant, and look forward to more. I would also hope to keep things that we harvest in the game.

nSan.4251:

As far as Mallyx goes, I like it’s skills but Unyielding Anguish kittenes off too many players and whenever I use it, I get cussed out, even when it was an accidental case. Now, I just use UA to place the field in more of a defensive role and just place it’s combo field on ranged attackers for it’s lifesteal properties. Though it’s when world boss fights when I’m doing that and they happen to walk in that field’s direction by mistake that kittenes everyone off and blames me, or “F’in Revenants.”

Other than that I think all of it’s skills synergize well with Jallis’s heal skill, but’s UA that needs a change.

I dont care if a skill kittens off people in pvp. Its pvp. If they get kittened off, its their own problem. I mean, seriously, hows that different from knockback, launch, etc.

As for world bosses… its displacing them too? like which ones? And is it really different from knockback, launch, etc?

Aside from the obvious build diversity question, my only real concern so far has been that many of the revenant’s skills are slow to activate. A lot of them are.

Me and another player were fighting a ranger in wvw. He was continuously dodging my attacks with their slow, obvious tells. It was rather frustrating.

I really hope Anet improve Temporal Rift (axe #5 skill) so we have the option (perhaps via a trait) to make it ground targetable (so I can pull enemies off towers tehehe), and either be unblockable, or have its width increased (the long range distance of 900 is fine – needs no change).

Zaoda.1653:

I really hope Anet improve Temporal Rift (axe #5 skill) so we have the option (perhaps via a trait) to make it ground targetable (so I can pull enemies off towers tehehe), and either be unblockable, or have its width increased (the long range distance of 900 is fine – needs no change).

what temporal rift (and a lot of revenant skills) needs is working with verticality. that ramp in stronghold leading to the inner gate just won’t let you use it, because the attack will go straight through the ground or float well above the enemies, missing them. temporal rift is one skill with that problem, but there are a lot more that feel they shouldn’t have that issue but do.

I will quote Ilmatar.6709 from another thread and post in here.
I personally like the suggestion for revenant shapeshifting into the Legends
when you are out of combat you will look like the race you have chosen, but when you are in combat stance you will be transformed into the Legend you have equioped.
This idea isn’t totally new to GW universe , it actually happened in GW1 when the Dervish transformed ito the the Various Gods with the elite skill.
So having the revenent shapeshifting into these Legends will make it even closer to the hearts of GW1 Dervish fans.
+1

Ilmatar.6709:

Revenant is not bringing anything new to the game. It is like mixture of Warrior/Guardian/Elementalist and Necromancer at this moment. It is way underpowered. I know that it is unfinished profession, but still it should bring something new to the game.

Legends

Legends bring different variation of utility skills which are at this moment Jalis: meant to be DPS? Mallyx: Condition damage and Ventari: healer.

Jalis is not feeling very good DPS at all. It brings stability, what works really good, but DPS is not working as good as it should. It feels that foes are hitting me with frying pan and I am hitting foes with feather. Jali’s elite skill says under the information text: Rite of the Great Dwarf (5s): ((441252)). It should be done something, but it is hard to test is it working as intended if there is only a code in there.

Mallyx is working pretty good, but it feels too much like Necromancer with wells. Condition damage is stacking pretty good way, but still it feels that I am only spraying pepper gas to foes eyes and I lost all my powers to this action. This pepper gas makes foes to weap and more angry, while I am trying to get back my powers for next pepper gas usage.

Ventari is feeling bit too weak for healing. It is slow and even I put traits to support healing skills it didn’t worked very good. Regeneration what it gives with every pulse is too short and too weak. Condition removing is too narrow area. I really had to put that Ventari’s Tablet to stand on target’s head that condition remover was worked properly. It feels clumsy way mixture of elementalist water spells and Engineer Healing turret.

Weapons

Hammer feels way underpowered and really slow. I think it is made for DPS maker. Now the feeling is like foes are hitting me with Iron Hammer to the head and I am hitting them with knitted hammer what are filled with soft cotton balls. Yes it is only tickeling foes and I am getting beaten up with iron hammer. 2nd skill should creating cascading eruption of power to damage to foes. Now it is just creating cascading eruption of power and mild breeze is coming from the ground.

Staff is feeling underpowered too. Maybe it ment to be supporting weapon, but it’s 4th skill what should be healing, makes your knee ache go away, otherwise it is not giving aid at all. 5th skill is pretty good, but it should push foe even further.

Mace and Axe, finally weapon set what worked fine. Power was good, it was fast, it did damage and felt that I was beating up foes and giving them back what they deserve.

Summary

Revenant is totally unfinished profession and there is a lot of to do for it. It gives a feeling that there is a long way until this profession is ready. Yes, it is long and hard road to make new profession to fit with other professions. It is profession what copycat warrior, guardian, elementalist and Necromancer and their working models. Maybe there is coming more weapon sets and legends what makes it copycat all the other profession. That makes me wonder what is the new element what this profession is bringing to the game. It is not flying and poke foes eyes from above them and dazzle them, it is not using Mists powers and shifting between Mists and reality to make foes puzzled. If this profession would really shapeshifting to those Legends what they call for, that would be something new. If they could really shapeshift to Jalis Ironhammer, a stone dwarven, they would be really hard to hit. Or if they really shapeshift to Mallyx the Unyielding and using same skills what he used in DoA in GW1. Awesome. Or if they really could shapeshift to Ventari with all it’s weakness and powers. That would bring something new to the game. But now how this profession has been implemented, it makes a feeling that it is only made for because some of the playerbase have asked for new profession. It has been implemented lazy way.

didnt read every comment but i think u could fix some “high” enegry cost issues if u would handle it like Thief.
Thief:
Weaponskills > no cd but cost initiative
Ultilities > cd’s

and Revenant would be
Weaponskills > cd but no energy costs
Ultilties > no cd but energy costs

Regarding the mace, it seems that skill #3 may have became bugged due to the new build Friday night. Before the build, all 3 blast finishers were occurring within the 410 range mentioned in its description, so combined with the fire field from skill #2 you could get all 3 blasts to land within the fire field (9 might stacks every 8 seconds). Afterwards, it changed and now it seems that the 410 range is the distance between each blast, which could have been the intended behavior but I doubt they’d balance a skill that quickly so it’s probably a bug.

In the grand scheme of things, this profession will need to be able to weapon swap to become viable in most people’s eyes, since not being able to switch to a melee or ranged play-style is a huge balance issue that will need to be addressed. Assuming that revenants are given weapon swapping, additionally toning down some of the casting times by .25s-.5s and slightly increasing damage for the weapon skills would address a sizeable amount of the major balance issues that exist.

No offense, but I really don’t agree with anything you’ve suggested.

I’ve played the majority of the beta so far with Mace + Axe using King Jalis and Mallyx.

First of all…. you said the “elite for Mallyx is fine”…. which just hurts my soul.

Did you even use this skill, lol?

The skill literally does nothing except apply an equal amount of torment to you and enemies if you don’t already have conditions on you.

…and if you do have conditions on you, the skill doesn’t even apply enough resistance to help you at all. The non-elite necromancer skill Plague signet is literally better than this.

I believe like you just wrote a description for many of these things just to feel like you said something without actually having experienced them.

Mace is a condi weapon…. and the autoattack chain doesn’t need any power increase, because it is applying condition damage.

…also half of your complaints are because you have autotarget turned on….

TheBlackLeech.9360:

No offense, but I really don’t agree with anything you’ve suggested.

I’ve played the majority of the beta so far with Mace + Axe using King Jalis and Mallyx.

First of all…. you said the “elite for Mallyx is fine”…. which just hurts my soul.

Did you even use this skill, lol?

The skill literally does nothing except apply an equal amount of torment to you and enemies if you don’t already have conditions on you.

…and if you do have conditions on you, the skill doesn’t even apply enough resistance to help you at all. The non-elite necromancer skill Plauge signet is literally better than this.

I believe like you just wrote a description for many of these things just to feel like you said something without actually having experienced them.

Nah, while I don’t necessarily agree with the degree of the all the changes, he was pretty much spot on regarding noticing the issues; and if you’re in PvE then yes the Mallyx elite’s effectiveness will be greatly affected by what creatures you’re up against.

After playing 25+ matches in sPvP, about 20 using the Mace/Axe + Jalis/Mallyx combo, I was able to notice the large effect the Mallyx elite was having against certain enemies (copying 6+ conditions to all nearby foes with little condition clearing such as an engis/rangers), but the class’s overall damage output was too low to capitalize on it. Adding weapon swapping and making small changes to nearly all of the things he mentioned would have turned things around in those circumstances.

On another note, I can see Unyielding Anguish getting a recharge of 5 seconds added in the future once the other changes are made; although the field last 4 seconds anyways so it just makes it slightly less spammable. That AoE teleport reminds me of the problematic decap engi’s from a while back and I can tell that once the other needed changes are made it’ll be OP.

So many good suggestions from BlackDevil…I hope a lot of it gets implemented.

Vengeful Hammers: while cripple on it would help loads, what about making it a trait instead – “Vengeful Hammers and the Reflexive Summons hammer have a chance to cause cripple” (just throwing out a thought). There’s a lack of interesting traits currently.

Turning Hammer#2 into a stun go a long way towards making hammer more fun to play. It suffers 2 things at the moment – 1) too much range depence to use use support skills that have a limited range, and 2) too little stun/chill/knockdown to keep enemies at a distance for more than a few seconds, then they’re right next to you. And a CC heavy splaystyle (that includes makes hammer#3 better, so you have a reason to apply chill) would make the weapon feel better in a support build (hammer fits ventari since you can get a better view of where you place the table if you’re ranged).

Hammer#5: I’ve gotten hit by it and managed to hit enemies with it, so the need for change isn’t as great as the rest of the hammer skills, the OPs buffs seems a bit much.

On staff#2: I’d remove the first part of the chain rather than the second, before applying a buff. When playing, I sometimes felt like: I want to just slam my staff down and damage enemies around – and the second part is the PBAoE. Plus the first part of the chain has a doesn’t have as good animation.

I think the Jalis elite halves damage (only tested against 1 enemy). So worth the energy cost, you just can’t use it at its current stats anywhere where activation time matters, hope it gets a bit shorter activation time.

Ronah Lynda.2496:

I will quote Ilmatar.6709 from another thread and post in here.

I posted a thread with a similar idea: that hitting the weapon swap key would be like a “kit” that gave you a unique set of attack abilities based on the legend in question.