Guild Wars 2

What the hell is up with the total lack of skill choice!

Each weapon the Revenant uses has its own skills, same with every profession so no problem there but there is no choice of healing, utility or elite skills, like not even Racial Skills. I fully understand the “Unique Profession Mechanic”, your healing, utility and elite skills are tied to your Legend but why ALL and why no Racial Skills?

Basically, as a Revenant, the only choice you have relating to your skills beyond choosing your weapon and legend is which order you put your three utility skills in. Come on, like that’s totally ludicrous right???

(Other than the issue mentioned above, I quite like the profession)

Lets be real here, your utility choices for most classes are already an illusion of choice.
So many garbage utilities on most classes that never get used and many more that are useless without the appropriate traits. So what’s the point?
Revenant still has choice in Utilities(choose two legends), but they come in packages rather than being separate.
You could see this as a limiting factor, but in many aspects, it’s a benefit.
You don’t get to mix-n-match, but you do get complimenting utilities(for the most part) instead of having them be all over the place(Glyphs on Elementalists) and intrude on your class mechanic(Conjures on Elementalists).
It’s much easier(in theory…) to balance each package rather than hundreds of different combinations of garbage utilities.

In the end, I feel like it’s not only more flavorful, but still good because each utility has a lot of different things to do and many applications, even if currently a few of them still need fixing(I’m looking at you, EtD and Inspiring Reinforcements >.<)

Basically what Malchior said.

I disagree, I mix and match all kinds of skills in different combinations with the other classes. Maybe some you would consider garbage, but I don’t care. And in fact, I might disagree.

Or maybe I would agree. Point being, at least I get a choice.

Revenant, you don’t. You also cant take racial skills or the mistwolf elite; maybe you would never take them, but sometimes I do, if for no other reason than for the fun of it; can’t do it with the revenant.

And that’s disappointing.

However, we also get two sets rather than one set of utilities, and that gives us more flexibility and power; essentially we are exchanging build flexibility for two sets of utilities, including two heal skills.

Morfedel.4165:

we also get two sets rather than one set of utilities, and that gives us more flexibility and power; essentially we are exchanging build flexibility for two sets of utilities, including two heal skills.

Need something different? Swap legends.

It’s true. The class feels very incomplete. Very limited selection of weapons. No choice on abilities, and the legends are extremely limited as well in usefulness, which is why you see 99% of Revenant’s using the exact same set up.

For those of you defending the class, you’re not doing yourself any favors. You’re not making the game better, you’re limiting what could be, in some odd attempt to placate developers.

It’s fun. I’m having fun playing it. That doesn’t change the fact that it is too limited and down the line, it will be left behind if not improved upon. Every single Rev I see is using 1h sword, hammer, assassin, and dwarf. If they are post 50, same thing but assassin and dragon.

This is bad and they should feel bad.

There are things that need fixing, like underwater combat. There are things that would be very nice, like a ranged Condi weapon. And there are things that aren’t remotely necessary (for the class to be complete), like choice of abilities.

Araris.7839:

It’s true. The class feels very incomplete. Very limited selection of weapons. No choice on abilities, and the legends are extremely limited as well in usefulness, which is why you see 99% of Revenant’s using the exact same set up.

For those of you defending the class, you’re not doing yourself any favors. You’re not making the game better, you’re limiting what could be, in some odd attempt to placate developers.

It’s fun. I’m having fun playing it. That doesn’t change the fact that it is too limited and down the line, it will be left behind if not improved upon. Every single Rev I see is using 1h sword, hammer, assassin, and dwarf. If they are post 50, same thing but assassin and dragon.

This is bad and they should feel bad.

Or maybe it’s because Shiro/Glint(or Jalis I guess, I’d take Mallyx) with Sword/X and Hammer is not only the highest DPS, but offers good survivability and mobility.
It’s the “exact” same set-up because Jalis, Mallyx, and Ventari are all either unfixed or are more situational. Shiro’s Mobility, Quickness, strong Stun Break, and AoE CC is just better in most situations.
It’s not about being limited, but rather that the other legends and weapons are currently too weak or just not as useful in PvE right now.

You’d have the exact same complaint with the vanilla classes too. Why did so many Elementalists take Fire/Air/Arcana or Water with Ice Bow and Glyph of Storms while wielding a Staff? High DPS, decent enough survivability for PvE, easy to use, and almost everything else was garbage in comparison.

We can say the same for the other classes. It’s just more obvious for Revenant, because again, 3 of our Legends are “unfixed” and the others are just universally going to be more useful(Shiro is good for Power, Condi, Defense you name it; same for Glint).

I do think the lack of flexibility is one of the “cons” of the Profession, in exchange for all the perks. The problem is it does feel like a fighting game (where Ryu is Ryu, rather than a “custom” Ryu so to speak), but in GW2 it’s much harder to differentiate between players using the same stuff. It’s more skill/experience vs “playing style” so to speak. While it’s a pity the racials are gone, I consider the “sacrifice” a sort of unwritten pact in order to get the benefit of the 4-5 legends’ assistance.

Additionally, there are uses for every Legend, even the less popular ones, and you have the choice of going for less common choices weapon-wise as well (for instance, I use Mace/Sword(off-hand)/Hammer with Shiro/Mallyx.) I like Jalis, but see no reason you MUST use him all the time (to be fair, also applicable to Shiro, even though I like his skillset). Hammer is also not a necessity, even though I favor it myself.

I quite honestly don’t feel Revenant lack weapon choices-it’s a very unique Profession that needs not be a “weapon master” such as is the Warrior. In a way, it used to be even less flexible without weapon swaps at one time, so the current state could be argued to be quite “advantageous” by some, rather than “bad.”

I would indeed add skills for every Legend for underwater use, as well as, perhaps in the long future, consider adding one more additional, useful skill to each Legend, so people get to choose among 4 good utility options, providing for more build diversity-which is not to say you absolutely can’t at this point, for there are many options just by combo-ing the 5 with different traits/weapons already.

While this apparent lack of flexibility would normally be an issue for me, it is not only a non-issue but I am having quite a bit of fun. Relinquishing some flexibility in exchange of powerful abilities, I’d call it (though feel free to disagree if you think it’s underpowered or something.)

I do not agree, however, with the “garbage options” opinion-options are always a good thing, unless there are TOO many for their own sake-but do maintain that the Revenant “skillset approach” is fine nonetheless, and very fitting to the Profession’s unique Legend mechanic.

I guess it is for catering the causal players who complaint too many complexities in the original professions.

Doug Whisper.2465:

I guess it is for catering the causal players who complaint too many complexities in the original professions.

Yea, that’s why I mained Ele(and technically Engi) and now I main Revenant >.>
Totally because those classes are too complex(that’s why I have over 1k hours on Ele after all; class 2 hard) and not because of any other good reason.
It’s not like handling CDs + Energy correctly is actually more complicated overall than continuously repeating a pre-determined rotation that only varies very slightly depending on the situation!

Doug Whisper.2465:

I guess it is for catering the causal players who complaint too many complexities in the original professions.

Doubtful-it’s just its own concept.

In addition, not all Professions even pre-HoT shared this “complexity”-compare Guardian/Warrior playstyle with some Engineer and Elementalist builds (the latter, with only one weapon.) It’s a bit hard to make Guardian any “complex”, even against the Revenant, IME. Not saying complex is better or worse, but that players who wish for “simplicity” already have better options-the Revenant 4-5 legend combo juggling options don’t scream “for beginners” to me.

Not to mention that decrying someone for being a “causal” (as you put it) is just arrogant and self-serving (I know “better”, not being a “filthy causal.”)

I’d like it if every legend had 4 utility skill options like with normal utility slots and then another option for heals and elites.

So Ventari would always have the summon heal, but you could maybe have a choice between the existing heal sliding and healing in a very long line, and a tablet teleport that heals for slightly less but in an aoe. Then it could have a utility skill that causes daze along with the three existing ones. As for the elite, maybe something like Ventari’s Refuge that creates a pretty long lasting shelter type skill that just doesn’t heal allies and then the tablet goes away after the shelter duration’s up.

Regardless of balance issues with legends and traits, I do feel that Revenant’s lack of flexibility is a real nuisance. For instance in WvW, if I want stability I either need to play Jalis, and all that Jalis comes with (and his stability skill is honestly pretty crap), or never stray far from the zerg and hope that someone else can provide it for me. And considering that the only choices Revenant really has are weapons, legends and traits, that’s a pretty high opportunity cost.

It seems to me that Revenants were designed from the ground up around limitations, presumably to make things easier for the devs to balance (although Revenant at least is nowhere near there IMO, aside from Shiro/Glint sword guy build). I don’t necessarily mind the lack of skill choice, but the lack of choice combined with lack of flexibility is probably going to be a deal breaker for me in the long run. It would be like if Elementalist could only choose two out of four elements to equip.

bzcharkl.6438:

For instance in WvW, if I want stability I either need to play Jalis, and all that Jalis comes with (and his stability skill is honestly pretty crap), or never stray far from the zerg and hope that someone else can provide it for me.

Just pointing out that this isn’t technically true, since just running the Retribution line can provide you with Stability on-dodge(and running it alongside Herald can give you a decent up-time if you’re willing to sacrifice the dodges).
It’s definitely not enough for WvW, but that comes down to balance.

I love the Rev concept and I’m playing mine. But I’m in the process of unlocking the Glint Legend and doing so makes the design flaws glaringly obvious. Here I am at level 80 and I can’t even use my Legendary Dragon stance because it’s incomplete until I get 100 or so more HP. With my Mesmer I slotted a few Well’s and filled the rest with other skills – I had a full build no problem. But with my Revenant I’m forced to run an incomplete skill bar that constantly flashes as me demanding I select skills which I don’t have.

The Revenant design has no nuance and there is no saying that’s a good thing. Just because many players mindlessly conform to a meta on their professions (“the illusion of choice”) doesn’t mean it’s okay to shoehorn a profession in to that.

As another poster said, you do yourself no favors defending such design. There is literally no reason they couldn’t have had 4 utilities per Legend and a set of 4 neutral utilities.

The only explanation is lack of development time. Also – the proof is in the silence on the subject. This issue has been brought up several times before and all you’ll see is a select few Rev players blinded by the new profession hype disagreeing. Roy has outright refused to address the concern and it’s really saddening.

Malchior.5732:

You’d have the exact same complaint with the vanilla classes too. Why did so many Elementalists take Fire/Air/Arcana or Water with Ice Bow and Glyph of Storms while wielding a Staff? High DPS, decent enough survivability for PvE, easy to use, and almost everything else was garbage in comparison.

The difference here would be it took time for people to discover all the complexities the classes offered and see the potential D/D ele for instance had.
This is highly unlikely to happen for the Revenant, since that complexity just isn’t there.
Balancing for other classes was always influenced by the experimentation of the players (despite what some people seem to think, the devs have always been fairly on the ball with these things, not as fast as some would hope though).

By limiting Revenant so extremely this experimentation can’t happen and so basically they designed a class they will have to balance almost 100% themselves.

It’s not that other classes are or ever were perfectly balanced, there are always utilities and traitlines under performing, but with the Revenant as it stands they magnified that issue.
Simply adding an extra utility choice to each legend would help a lot, instead of hoping Revenant will somehow be the first class were they magically balance everything.

Dastion.3106:

As another poster said, you do yourself no favors defending such design. There is literally no reason they couldn’t have had 4 utilities per Legend and a set of 4 neutral utilities.

The only explanation is lack of development time. Also – the proof is in the silence on the subject. This issue has been brought up several times before and all you’ll see is a select few Rev players blinded by the new profession hype disagreeing. Roy has outright refused to address the concern and it’s really saddening.

For the record, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone defend the design from the standpoint that not having choice is somehow better. I don’t happen to think it is necessary is all—certainly not on the level of needing weapon swap, which many of us fought for. I think people get too caught up in what it can’t do instead of what it can. I also don’t appreciate the implication that because someone doesn’t share your opinion, that they are blinded.

My main concern about the Revenant is that the lack of control over skill choices will inherently limit its place in the longterm meta. Like if the meta shifts to favor one thing or another, the Revenant can’t easily build around or adjust to it. They’re stuck with whatever builds the developers came up with, as opposed to the playerbase. They’re basically the profession equivalent a gaming console in a PC gaming world. Awesome when it first comes out but quickly becomes outdated by even a moderate market PC.

I think it might eventually become a problem that the Revenant has no legend-agnostic utilities. Like imagine how nice it would be if we could sacrifice one utility slot for, say, some condi-cleanse but in exchange you can’t get around its cooldown. (i.e. even if you swap legends, you won’t get the slot back and thus effectively only have two legend-related skills besides the heal and elite)

That said, what I’m talking about is still in the future. We’re still sort of feeling out where exactly the Rev’s place is, so it’s a bit early still to be talking about solutions.

EDIT: I do agree the lack of racial skills is kind of depressing too. I’d just advise thinking of it in terms of you belonging to the Mists moreso than your original people. That is a norn and an asura revenant would have more in common with each other than they do members of their own respective races.

Well revenant was designed with predeterminate role for each legend since the start. Revenant was anunced with lack of personnalisation compared to other classes, and people like it. I highly doubt they add more utilities, and i’m completly fine with it, i like the predeterminates roles. It add an uniqueness to the class too, making it different than others. But now there is actually a problem, revenenant is the class that has the less skills and he is absolutly not balanced, making 3 legends of 5 useless. Balancing and bug fixing is the priority number one.

If you don’t like the limited choices… don’t play it.

pretty simple tbh..

Idk, I like Revenant how it is atm tbh (minus the bugs ofc)

Dastion.3106:

I love the Rev concept and I’m playing mine. But I’m in the process of unlocking the Glint Legend and doing so makes the design flaws glaringly obvious. Here I am at level 80 and I can’t even use my Legendary Dragon stance because it’s incomplete until I get 100 or so more HP. With my Mesmer I slotted a few Well’s and filled the rest with other skills – I had a full build no problem. But with my Revenant I’m forced to run an incomplete skill bar that constantly flashes as me demanding I select skills which I don’t have.

The Revenant design has no nuance and there is no saying that’s a good thing. Just because many players mindlessly conform to a meta on their professions (“the illusion of choice”) doesn’t mean it’s okay to shoehorn a profession in to that.

As another poster said, you do yourself no favors defending such design. There is literally no reason they couldn’t have had 4 utilities per Legend and a set of 4 neutral utilities.

The only explanation is lack of development time. Also – the proof is in the silence on the subject. This issue has been brought up several times before and all you’ll see is a select few Rev players blinded by the new profession hype disagreeing. Roy has outright refused to address the concern and it’s really saddening.

This summarises the issue perfectly.

Masori.3528:

If you don’t like the limited choices… don’t play it.

pretty simple tbh..

This.
If you don’t like how the profession is built, why play it?

SrebX.6498:

Masori.3528:

If you don’t like the limited choices… don’t play it.

pretty simple tbh..

This.
If you don’t like how the profession is built, why play it?

So, by your logic, we should expect no more profession changes for any profession because – if you don’t like it, don’t play it, right?

I’m sure that’s an excellent mind-set for ANet to epitomize and won’t hurt the game at all. /sarcasm

“It’s true. The class feels very incomplete. Very limited selection of weapons. No choice on abilities, and the legends are extremely limited as well in usefulness, which is why you see 99% of Revenant’s using the exact same set up.” QUOTE

I disagree. Initially, while leveling and getting use to the class, people stuck with the easiest combo. Now that I have everything unlocked, I am experimenting more. The staff is a marvelous weapon when worked with Assassin and Demon stance and properly traited. Mace is a good alternate when you have a need for condi; sword if you need more power and less survivability.

The class is hard to get high crit or condi through gear alone, so traiting and utilities are mandatory for maximum effect.

To train, my first advice is to throw away your hammer and do not use Herald as Herald is a pretty lazy trait line. Once proficient, (nice way of saying, I get it now), you can pick up your hammer again and even dabble with Herald.

Have fun.

Misguided.5139:

Morfedel.4165:

we also get two sets rather than one set of utilities, and that gives us more flexibility and power; essentially we are exchanging build flexibility for two sets of utilities, including two heal skills.

Need something different? Swap legends.

5 prebuilts isnt as flexible as the build system for the other classes. But go back to my post and note that I also complimented parts of it too.

The funny thing is that some people have complained that Revenant, with weapon swap, legend swap, energy, CDs, etc. is overly complicated. I don’t agree with either view (that it is too simple or too complex), but I find it interesting how widely opinions can vary.

I’d rather have legends with a cohesive set of utility skills than having 5 glyphs or 5 signets with random effects.

The cohesive set for each legend also creates some interesting strong points and weaknesses. For example, shiro is a very versatile legend with plenty of mobility, action speed and CC, but then it’s “stuck” with a healing skill that, although a decent skill overall (when taken into acokitten both heal and damage), it is not that great when taken only for the healing effect. This adds a very distinct weakness to an otherwise strong and complete legend.

If this was any other profession, you would simply be able to swap that heal for another one, and suddenly have an overpowered kit in your hands. Even if the end result would not be overpowered, there would be no increase in diversity at all. Think of guardians. They always inject their block heal into their blood.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I’d rather have legends with a cohesive set of utility skills than having 5 glyphs or 5 signets with random effects.

The cohesive set for each legend also creates some interesting strong points and weaknesses. For example, shiro is a very versatile legend with plenty of mobility, action speed and CC, but then it’s “stuck” with a healing skill that, although a decent skill overall (when taken into acokitten both heal and damage), it is not that great when taken only for the healing effect. This adds a very distinct weakness to an otherwise strong and complete legend.

If this was any other profession, you would simply be able to swap that heal for another one, and suddenly have an overpowered kit in your hands. Even if the end result would not be overpowered, there would be no increase in diversity at all. Think of guardians. They always inject their block heal into their blood.

This! Exactly this!

I really don’t understand why you’re having such a huge issue with this, OP. This is exactly as it’s been advertised from the very beginning; you had plenty of time to decide that the class was not suited for your interests.

Dastion.3106:

SrebX.6498:

Masori.3528:

If you don’t like the limited choices… don’t play it.

pretty simple tbh..

This.
If you don’t like how the profession is built, why play it?

So, by your logic, we should expect no more profession changes for any profession because – if you don’t like it, don’t play it, right?

I’m sure that’s an excellent mind-set for ANet to epitomize and won’t hurt the game at all. /sarcasm

You’re probably aware of the fact that there’s a major difference between suggesting tweaks and improvements, and ranting about the core of the profession’s mechanic and how its fundamentally built.

Dont like illusions? Dont play mesmer
Hate shroud? Dont play necro
Discouraged by constantly switching attunements and love 2 weapon sets? Dont play ele
Hope I made my point

SrebX.6498:

Dastion.3106:

SrebX.6498:

Masori.3528:

If you don’t like the limited choices… don’t play it.

pretty simple tbh..

This.
If you don’t like how the profession is built, why play it?

So, by your logic, we should expect no more profession changes for any profession because – if you don’t like it, don’t play it, right?

I’m sure that’s an excellent mind-set for ANet to epitomize and won’t hurt the game at all. /sarcasm

You’re probably aware of the fact that there’s a major difference between suggesting tweaks and improvements, and ranting about the core of the profession’s mechanic and how its fundamentally built.

Dont like illusions? Dont play mesmer
Hate shroud? Dont play necro
Discouraged by constantly switching attunements and love 2 weapon sets? Dont play ele
Hope I made my point

The fundamental aspect of the Revenant is the Energy system and ability to swap your 6-0 skills.

ArenaNet never advertised the profession as each Legend being locked into the same skill. If you look back you’ll find posts of people asking about that and not getting answers, of some people assuming there would be more because in one of the early interviews they talked about a Jalis “rune” skill that we didn’t see in beta.

Having limited options is not a mechanic. There is nothing about the mechanic that actually prevents adding more skills to each Legend. Simply put, we were given an incomplete prototype of a profession. It’s what you’d expect to see in a beta with set builds and limited options. But a single underwater weapon and zero nuance to builds? That’s incomplete.

If you enjoy it as is, that’s fine. Me asking for more options won’t hurt your experience.

For the record though, up until recently Mesmers had the same issue. Our “mechanic” had design flaws that made it too unreliable to use effectively. And it was balanced around potentially having access to a trait (Illusionary Persona) that basically fixed all of the flaws. Without the trait, Shattering didn’t do much. With it, it was suddenly awesome and reliable.

Two years ago I suggested illusionary persona be made baseline (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Illusionary-Persona-an-OP-Trait/first is an example of just one such post). Eventually ANet finally came around and did so. Now – suddenly – all Mesmers are Shatter Mesmers because the mechanic has more reliability built in. It wasn’t until after that that it occurred to people that despite “shattering” being the base mechanic of the Mesmer people only referred to it as a specialized build because it wasn’t used much without IP. It’s like thinking of a Necromancer who just doesn’t bother to use his Deathshroud or a Thief who doesn’t steal. Why wouldn’t they? Because they usually got something reliable out of their mechanic whereas Mesmers often flopped.

Mesmers still had good builds and overpowered builds and could be enjoyable to play. That doesn’t change the fact that the mechanic was flawed and needed addressed. Combined with the change to pet damage in PvE it’s breathed new life into the profession.

For Mesmers the issue was reliability, for Revenants it’s that your “utility” skills have no “utility”. Your special mechanic is a gimmick that limits you. I mean, what does it give you? An extra set of 6-0 skills? Guess what so does the Engineer toolbelt. Except your skills are locked in and gated by an energy resource more restrictive than Initiative. I’m glad you enjoy the profession, I still do too to a degree. But I don’t let enjoying thematics and a cool concept overshadow glaring design flaws.

Hopefully it doesn’t take ANet two years to address it – hell, I’d be happy if Roy or someone actually commented on the subject. As much as it’s been brought up you’d think they’d settle the matter once and for all. I wonder why they don’t? Probably because they know it’s an issue and saying “we don’t have time to develop more than a base kit and a single underwater weapon” is bad PR.

The overall silence is very disturbing.

Dastion.3106:

SrebX.6498:

Dastion.3106:

SrebX.6498:

Masori.3528:

If you don’t like the limited choices… don’t play it.

pretty simple tbh..

This.
If you don’t like how the profession is built, why play it?

So, by your logic, we should expect no more profession changes for any profession because – if you don’t like it, don’t play it, right?

I’m sure that’s an excellent mind-set for ANet to epitomize and won’t hurt the game at all. /sarcasm

You’re probably aware of the fact that there’s a major difference between suggesting tweaks and improvements, and ranting about the core of the profession’s mechanic and how its fundamentally built.

Dont like illusions? Dont play mesmer
Hate shroud? Dont play necro
Discouraged by constantly switching attunements and love 2 weapon sets? Dont play ele
Hope I made my point

The fundamental aspect of the Revenant is the Energy system and ability to swap your 6-0 skills.

ArenaNet never advertised the profession as each Legend being locked into the same skill. If you look back you’ll find posts of people asking about that and not getting answers, of some people assuming there would be more because in one of the early interviews they talked about a Jalis “rune” skill that we didn’t see in beta.

Having limited options is not a mechanic. There is nothing about the mechanic that actually prevents adding more skills to each Legend. Simply put, we were given an incomplete prototype of a profession. It’s what you’d expect to see in a beta with set builds and limited options. But a single underwater weapon and zero nuance to builds? That’s incomplete.

If you enjoy it as is, that’s fine. Me asking for more options won’t hurt your experience.

For the record though, up until recently Mesmers had the same issue. Our “mechanic” had design flaws that made it too unreliable to use effectively. And it was balanced around potentially having access to a trait (Illusionary Persona) that basically fixed all of the flaws. Without the trait, Shattering didn’t do much. With it, it was suddenly awesome and reliable.

Two years ago I suggested illusionary persona be made baseline (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Illusionary-Persona-an-OP-Trait/first is an example of just one such post). Eventually ANet finally came around and did so. Now – suddenly – all Mesmers are Shatter Mesmers because the mechanic has more reliability built in. It wasn’t until after that that it occurred to people that despite “shattering” being the base mechanic of the Mesmer people only referred to it as a specialized build because it wasn’t used much without IP. It’s like thinking of a Necromancer who just doesn’t bother to use his Deathshroud or a Thief who doesn’t steal. Why wouldn’t they? Because they usually got something reliable out of their mechanic whereas Mesmers often flopped.

Mesmers still had good builds and overpowered builds and could be enjoyable to play. That doesn’t change the fact that the mechanic was flawed and needed addressed. Combined with the change to pet damage in PvE it’s breathed new life into the profession.

For Mesmers the issue was reliability, for Revenants it’s that your “utility” skills have no “utility”. Your special mechanic is a gimmick that limits you. I mean, what does it give you? An extra set of 6-0 skills? Guess what so does the Engineer toolbelt. Except your skills are locked in and gated by an energy resource more restrictive than Initiative. I’m glad you enjoy the profession, I still do too to a degree. But I don’t let enjoying thematics and a cool concept overshadow glaring design flaws.

Hopefully it doesn’t take ANet two years to address it – hell, I’d be happy if Roy or someone actually commented on the subject. As much as it’s been brought up you’d think they’d settle the matter once and for all. I wonder why they don’t? Probably because they know it’s an issue and saying “we don’t have time to develop more than a base kit and a single underwater weapon” is bad PR.

Rev’s mechanic is certain utilities tied to certain legends, and the ability to swap between 2 sets in battle. If you don’t like the mechanic and want to mix n math, this class isn’t for you.
Dont get me wrong, i’ll certainly enjoy more skills. Furthermore, every class gets 4 utilities from each type, meaning we should get at least 1 more skill for choice. Its just that I don’t think its necessary, its more like asking for more toys because like all the other kids have them

Dastion.3106:

SrebX.6498:

Dastion.3106:

SrebX.6498:

Masori.3528:

If you don’t like the limited choices… don’t play it.

pretty simple tbh..

This.
If you don’t like how the profession is built, why play it?

So, by your logic, we should expect no more profession changes for any profession because – if you don’t like it, don’t play it, right?

I’m sure that’s an excellent mind-set for ANet to epitomize and won’t hurt the game at all. /sarcasm

You’re probably aware of the fact that there’s a major difference between suggesting tweaks and improvements, and ranting about the core of the profession’s mechanic and how its fundamentally built.

Dont like illusions? Dont play mesmer
Hate shroud? Dont play necro
Discouraged by constantly switching attunements and love 2 weapon sets? Dont play ele
Hope I made my point

The fundamental aspect of the Revenant is the Energy system and ability to swap your 6-0 skills.

ArenaNet never advertised the profession as each Legend being locked into the same skill. If you look back you’ll find posts of people asking about that and not getting answers, of some people assuming there would be more because in one of the early interviews they talked about a Jalis “rune” skill that we didn’t see in beta.

Having limited options is not a mechanic. There is nothing about the mechanic that actually prevents adding more skills to each Legend. Simply put, we were given an incomplete prototype of a profession. It’s what you’d expect to see in a beta with set builds and limited options. But a single underwater weapon and zero nuance to builds? That’s incomplete.

If you enjoy it as is, that’s fine. Me asking for more options won’t hurt your experience.

For the record though, up until recently Mesmers had the same issue. Our “mechanic” had design flaws that made it too unreliable to use effectively. And it was balanced around potentially having access to a trait (Illusionary Persona) that basically fixed all of the flaws. Without the trait, Shattering didn’t do much. With it, it was suddenly awesome and reliable.

Two years ago I suggested illusionary persona be made baseline (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Illusionary-Persona-an-OP-Trait/first is an example of just one such post). Eventually ANet finally came around and did so. Now – suddenly – all Mesmers are Shatter Mesmers because the mechanic has more reliability built in. It wasn’t until after that that it occurred to people that despite “shattering” being the base mechanic of the Mesmer people only referred to it as a specialized build because it wasn’t used much without IP. It’s like thinking of a Necromancer who just doesn’t bother to use his Deathshroud or a Thief who doesn’t steal. Why wouldn’t they? Because they usually got something reliable out of their mechanic whereas Mesmers often flopped.

Mesmers still had good builds and overpowered builds and could be enjoyable to play. That doesn’t change the fact that the mechanic was flawed and needed addressed. Combined with the change to pet damage in PvE it’s breathed new life into the profession.

For Mesmers the issue was reliability, for Revenants it’s that your “utility” skills have no “utility”. Your special mechanic is a gimmick that limits you. I mean, what does it give you? An extra set of 6-0 skills? Guess what so does the Engineer toolbelt. Except your skills are locked in and gated by an energy resource more restrictive than Initiative. I’m glad you enjoy the profession, I still do too to a degree. But I don’t let enjoying thematics and a cool concept overshadow glaring design flaws.

Hopefully it doesn’t take ANet two years to address it – hell, I’d be happy if Roy or someone actually commented on the subject. As much as it’s been brought up you’d think they’d settle the matter once and for all. I wonder why they don’t? Probably because they know it’s an issue and saying “we don’t have time to develop more than a base kit and a single underwater weapon” is bad PR.

You can’t really compare illusionnary personna and revenant’s mechanics. When illusionnary personna enhance the mesmer mechanic (shatter), you want to change completly the revenant one.Think more like an elementalist without attunements, but giving the choices of weapons skills. This change all the design of the class. Again it was designed like that since start, to be like an elementalist, with utilitites skills stuck with the legends you use. I personnaly find this very kind, giving each legend a vibe, a personnality and weaknesses. You may don’t enjoy that, but i highly doubt it change ever, it’s like redesigning the elementalist’s atunements. A class in gw is don’t create for pleased a bigh amount of people, but for embracing differents playstyle,for everyone. Revenant is don’t the class for you i think, you seems to need to swap utilities and revenant wasn’t designed in this in mind. Revenant is don’t a class for everyone coz you actually have far less personnalisation than other classes, being stuck in determinate roles. Some love it, some dislove, but if dislove it’s coz this class isn’t for you. Is like playing elementalist with weapon swap and without attunements, it would change the core mechanic of the class completly. Think about it, have engineer’s kits choice of skills? Have elementalist weapons choice of skills? Sure they are weapons skills and weapons skills cannot be changed, but revenant utilities are based on the same mechanic. And, talking about balance, you don’t think that having 10 choices of utilities when other classes only have 5 being a bit op?
Actually what make this class unique is: Predetermined roles with legends and lack of personnalisation, energy, legend swap. Those three things are that make revenant a revenant, you can’t erase one of it without changing all the design thinking for the class.

Quite a lot of people seem to have mistaken my OP, I didn’t say I had a problem with Profession Mechanic. It was only about the lack of skills and skill choice.

Its like this, there are things that EVERY profession has. These are core Mechanics and here are a few:

• ALL professions have RACIAL skills because ALL professions belong to a specific RACE!
  • Revenants don’t and in that regard, they are broken/unfinished.

• ALL professions have 4 types of utility skills and 4 skills of each type (5 with Elite Specializations)
  • Revenants only have 3 skills of each type of utility skill and in that regard, they are broken/unfinished.

• ALL Professions have some degree of choice with their utility skills beyond their Profession Mechanic.
  • Revenants don’t have ANY and again, in that regard they are broken/unfinished.

We know that because of their Profession Mechanic, their choice of utility skill is limited because its tied to their current legend but limited does not mean NONE. There is absolutely no reason why they shouldn’t have these issues mentioned above sorted and I would even argue that until they are sorted, the Revenant is Broken.

Put simply, they are missing some Core Game Mechanics.

Per Roy:
“The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.”

Well i don’t think myself that this i the reason for the class being broken. The actual reason to the class seems a little incomplete is because corruption traitline and mallyx lgend, Retribution traitline and Jalis and a bit of Ventari legends who are incomplete compared to Shiro/Glint. Making you stuck in power build.

If the Revenant can’t use Racial skills, THEN IT’S BROKEN. It’s just that simple.

If Racial skills won’t work with the Revenant then that’s something they should have thought about before they began creating it. Like, If they had an idea for a profession that couldn’t go under water, it should never be created until they had a way for it to go under water. It’s the exact same here, If an idea for a profession IS MISSING A CORE GAME AND PROFESSION MECHANIC, then they shouldn’t create it. When that have it sorted, create away.

ADDED: As a point, I did actually play the Revenant in the betas but just assumed that the racial skills would be added for release. Like obviously, its racial skills, the profession wouldn’t be complete without them.

Except only a handful of people actually care about the racials at all :L

Rev can’t use skills that no one ever uses?! Its definitely broken! Anet sucks!!!!! /sarcasm

This is like complaining that the elementalist doesnt have a weapon swap….
It’s a part of the class that has existed since its inception.
You don’t like it? Play something else.

Titan Cronus.9216:

If the Revenant can’t use Racial skills, THEN IT’S BROKEN. It’s just that simple.

If Racial skills won’t work with the Revenant then that’s something they should have thought about before they began creating it. Like, If they had an idea for a profession that couldn’t go under water, it should never be created until they had a way for it to go under water. It’s the exact same here, If an idea for a profession IS MISSING A CORE GAME AND PROFESSION MECHANIC, then they shouldn’t create it. When that have it sorted, create away.

ADDED: As a point, I did actually play the Revenant in the betas but just assumed that the racial skills would be added for release. Like obviously, its racial skills, the profession wouldn’t be complete without them.

Timeout did you really just say that racial skills are a core game and profession mechanic??

Lol…..im sorry but what game are you playing??

Can’t express in words the amount of laughter and enjoyment you brought me with that troll post. Thank you for having a sense of trolling humor on the forums, brings a smile to many faces.

gannondorf.7628:

Well i don’t think myself that this i the reason for the class being broken. The actual reason to the class seems a little incomplete is because corruption traitline and mallyx lgend, Retribution traitline and Jalis and a bit of Ventari legends who are incomplete compared to Shiro/Glint. Making you stuck in power build.

There is nothing keeping you stuck in a power build but yourself. The corruption line is actually very strong for not only condi builds but power builds as well. Same with Malyx. Ventari’s tablet also has a lot of good uses, and jalis is useful as well. You just need to actually take an in depth look at the class and not bandwagon.

Just because nearly no-one uses them doesn’t change the fact that Racial Skills are a game mechanic.

You may not like them, I sure don’t particularly like them but EVERY character belongs to a specific RACE. A profession or character without access to Racial Skills is incomplete.

Titan Cronus.9216:

Just because nearly no-one uses them doesn’t change the fact that Racial Skills are a game mechanic.

You may not like them, I sure don’t particularly like them but EVERY character belongs to a specific RACE. A profession or character without access to Racial Skills is incomplete.

Been said a million times, the class is designed with energy upkeep and invoking the abilities of legends, not muddying the waters with flavor racials which are cd based only and don’t fit the theme of what the class is supposed to represent.

As has been said, the issue is mostly that outside of Glint, Shiro, the legends are unpowered and shouldnt be used, and outside of sword, hammer, and the offhands, the other weapons kinda suck.

Its limited because its not balanced. If the other legends were all viable then there would be much less of an issue.

That said, we do have a total number of utilities less than other classes. The class definatly needs another legend and another weapon or two since they are severely limited there too.

Titan Cronus.9216:

Just because nearly no-one uses them doesn’t change the fact that Racial Skills are a game mechanic.

You may not like them, I sure don’t particularly like them but EVERY character belongs to a specific RACE. A profession or character without access to Racial Skills is incomplete.

Racial skills aren’t available to anyone in sPvP. Are you going to whine about that, too?

Titan Cronus.9216:

If the Revenant can’t use Racial skills, THEN IT’S BROKEN. It’s just that simple.

They aren’t changing this. If that breaks the game for you, then you will be happier playing something else. I’ll be over here having the most fun I’ve ever had in an mmo.

You have 20 skills to use with two legends and two weapons. Then, out of combat you can choose between 5(!) legends, which leads to a rather good diversity. Combining Glint with something else is rather complex. You also have to watch your energy management, which decides over life and DEATHHHHHHHHHHH – happened to use Impossiburu Odds until 0, I had to retreat with Riposting Shadows and had —- ZERO, so I go down.