Guild Wars 2

This thread is to hold feedback from the demo weekend for Renegade.

Why not make it once the event starts.

She/He did it in all professions subforum… that’s sad…

Why is it bad to have it a bit early so other folks see the thread instead of making their own threads that aren’t consolidated?

Why is it sad? Took a total of 5min.

Sad? because that kind of behavior totally mark you as a bot in anet’s moderators view.

And profession subforums usually have their own unofficial community representatives who will make the thread and help keep it going. People who have solid understanding of that particular class.

Has people played it so far?

ButterPeanut.9746:

Why is it bad to have it a bit early so other folks see the thread instead of making their own threads that aren’t consolidated?

Is this one consolidated? What’s you expectations and take off about this class? Which are your thoughts about what has been shown?

ButterPeanut.9746:

Why is it bad to have it a bit early so other folks see the thread instead of making their own threads that aren’t consolidated?

Because it always means that the front page gets filled with irrelevant chatter that’s in no way related to the purpose.

I can already tell you that Icerazor’s Ire should apply chill. If for no other reason than that there is no way to apply chill with the shortbow or any of the renegade abilities and that it’s called ICErazor’s Ire. Plus it would be nice to have at least one option for synergy with Abyssal Chill for kittens sake!

Jthug.9506:

I can already tell you that Icerazor’s Ire should apply chill. If for no other reason than that there is no way to apply chill with the shortbow or any of the renegade abilities and that it’s called ICErazor’s Ire. Plus it would be nice to have at least one option for synergy with Abyssal Chill for kittens sake!

Might be worth more to take Spontaneous Destruction for the boon strip/confusion. Now that Confusion changed along with Torment.

Did some preliminary tests. The elite skill is insane. No CD on the lifesteal. Says it only applies to players, but because the damage your other summons do count as yours, it’s making your summoned spirits lifesteal as well (700 per hit, no cd, they also lifesteal from devastation traits). They can also inherit the bleeding on hit effect

The daze skill is a PULSING daze, 6 dazes total. Looks like a great break bar skill. Doesn’t really do much other than that(and proccing other summon buffs).

I hadn’t thought about the summons getting the bleeding on hit effect from razorclaw’s rage?, that’s neato. Glad to hear that the lifesteal seems to be worthwhile, I wasn’t too pumped about it honestly.

It’s horrific in pvp. probably worse than CORE revenant lol

It is absolutely terrible in pvp. Not only are the summons clunky and costly, but easy to focus and if cc’d they stop their effects if they channel them to you. Your heal can be outright denied to you if it’s cc’d and will go on full cd if interrupted. SB4 can’t be shot behind you and has a horrible cast sequence that makes it take much longer than the cast time to take effect. SB3 will lose shots if literally anything gets in the way of the path to the target. The traits are all bland and uninteresting and the condi durations from Sb feels extremely short even in with viper gear and bleed specific runes. I don’t want to stop doing the auto attack to cast anything but maybe the 2 skill because it feels like all my stacks vanish when I stop.

PvE may be different when we have more control over our stats and such, but it feels VERY underwhelming. I think we’ll end up having the Dragonhunter spec of this expansion: the one the players of the class it was assigned to doesn’t want at all.

Its shortbow feel very close to hammer with a string. Too slow. Too much love for 3/4 cast time.

As a quite experienced pvp player I was quite disappointed. This “elite” spec won’t last even in copper league. Condis aren’t stable, if you miss your 3,4, you are left only with the bleeding, which any prof. can clean quite fast before it gets to a high number. Absolutely no sustain. The heal gets outbursted in 2 seconds, it’s that bad, not only that which spec are you gonna choose for secondary?! Shiro, I doubt it, Dwarf with the better heal and no good utilities in spvp or centaur to go some strange condi/support build? Anet made a huge mess out of this elite spec and I was so looking forward to switch to revenant in pve and pvp. How can you have “elite” spec without a single proper defensive utility, which helps you actually deal with condies as well.
Another disappointing thing is when you watch the videos of anet how they create things and brainstorm for new ways to improve the game, they work very associative. In which sick mind the word “Renegade” and “charr legendary hero” is connected to CONDITION DAMAGE. Even I, who plays gw since prophecies on and off know as much as charrs are associated with pure brute force damage, guns, machines engineering stuff and what you deliver is some condi range support that won’t find place neither in pvp nor in high end pve. Yes even in pve, because you guys lost your way and instead of making as you wanted every profession unique, you made every profession do everything and who cares if the renegade can at very best do vulnerability stacks, since ALL can do it and they don’t even need a slot to waste on a profession, that doesn’t really offer anything. At least you could have added a real “renegade” in pve, which finally would make some use of the revenant. Instead unlike the other professions, revenants get in this expansion just 4 new maps, mount and a cosmetic “elite” spec.
I hope you can see how flaw is the concept of the weapon/utility build you offer us and just completely rework it. Better release something something good, not quite finished and tweak it, than being stuck with a completely useless on every aspect of the game spec.

Regenade is without a doubt a PvE focused specialization, basically the other half of Mallyx Condition Revenant. For PvE I see a lot of synergy with a Corruption, Kalla, and Devastation/Invocation mix.

In WvW it’s just straight up awful:

Shortbow – In large scale it’s just straight up worse than Hammer in every way imaginable. There’s just too many 3/4 cast times on the weapon to make it really viable and it makes it very vulnerable to any kind of counter CC/interrupt. There’s no mobility on the weapon what so ever meaning if you get caught out of position you’re just done for. This also makes it poor for smaller groups as no leaps, mobility just leaves you at the mercy of other classes with mobility as trying to deal with thieves/mesmers (very common small scale) or anyone else is just annoying since they can blip around all over and you’re stuck there with basically no mobility.

Citadel Orders – These are probably one of the better parts to Renegade. Heroic is nice if you need to keep Fervor up and it’s about to go down, but the might generated is pretty lackluster compared to Herald. Bombardment I wasn’t impressed with the 900 range or 40 energy cost but after trying it out I see why and it made the cost pretty worth it. I was condi focused and saw a lot of high burns was very impressive. Above’s Alacrity was very impressive and welcome.

Breakrazor Bastion – Right off the bat I saw everything wrong with these “wells” or “spirits” when I summoned her and she got immediately feared and started running away for a few seconds before resuming her aura. Complete and total garbage for WvW. Stun break on heal is interesting, a 3/4th cast time (more…) is not. The reduction in Condis is nice but over all this heal isn’t functionally useful in a fight since the spirit can just get CC’d and the effects all stop.

Icerazor’s Ire – Not much to say here, Chill/Vuln field. Damage feels low. The 600 range doesn’t help. Would probably be more interesting with Chill to provide additional Torment from Corruption line than Cripple.

Darkrazor’s Daring – 1/4th Daze on 1 pulses is neat but as fast as people move it didn’t really stop anything. Might be decent as a stab remover but that’s about it.

Razorclaw’s Rage – Probably the only well I liked because he Bleed it does is attributed to the Revenant not the player who does the attack. That means it scales with my condi damage even if a power player is doing the procs. Was super cool to buff up the allies and add Bleeds to their attacks while I sat back unable to fight in a 1200 vs 1200 fight.

Soulcleave Summit – This was again a neat thing to buff up allies, but I didn’t see much use out of it lacking the sustain to really stick in a fight. Only chance I got to really use it myself in a fight was in a 1v1 and it didn’t really hurt but I don’t feel like it gave me the fight either. Probably better as a free damage add in PvE.

Renegade Traits – Biggest issue I see with basing things off Fury is Herald is our most consistent source of Fury when we’re solo. The small amount of disables and evasions (I mean, basically dodge roll) we get make the other two Adept traits questionable as well. Stunbreak CC sounds nice in theory, but again we have very few stun breaks as a class making Heart Piercer the default go to in Master level (as even without a Short Bow the increased Bleed damage would benefit Geomancy Sigils). Good Grandmaster traits as each have good benefits to them, was hard choice, but probably going with lazy convenience of Improved Fervor.

Basically Revenant has very few ways to deal with conditions. Many other classes can go with an offensive weapon, offensive trait setup, and still slot defensive Utilities which the Revenant just can’t do. This makes having a new Legend lacking stun breaks (I mean, to the heal? Really?) and ways to deal with conditions on you (reducing damage by 33% is great and all but 3k burn stacks are real). This makes Kalla a really squishy option that just has no place in SPvP or WvW especially when it’s directly competing against the utility Juggernaut of Herald. This makes Kalla basically fit perfectly into a PvE condition role because now Revs can be condition focused without wholly giving up their offensive support role. But SPvP and WvW both wholly rely on defenses considering the immense levels of damage, conditions, etc out there and Kalla adds nothing there and the base Revenant options (Jalis, Retribution Traits, etc) aren’t enough to carry it.

I’ve only fooled around on it a little. Some quick things…..energy costs are too kitten high. Really, it’s kind of absurd. Second the whole Anet thing of “the renegade shortbow is meant to be played at range unlike ranger” is insane. If you want this thing to be viable in PVE it must work in melee. Period. Yet, sb #3 is terrible in melee and only decent at full range.

Kodiak.3281:

Regenade is without a doubt a PvE focused specialization, basically the other half of Mallyx Condition Revenant. For PvE I see a lot of synergy with a Corruption, Kalla, and Devastation/Invocation mix.

In WvW it’s just straight up awful:

Shortbow – In large scale it’s just straight up worse than Hammer in every way imaginable. There’s just too many 3/4 cast times on the weapon to make it really viable and it makes it very vulnerable to any kind of counter CC/interrupt. There’s no mobility on the weapon what so ever meaning if you get caught out of position you’re just done for. This also makes it poor for smaller groups as no leaps, mobility just leaves you at the mercy of other classes with mobility as trying to deal with thieves/mesmers (very common small scale) or anyone else is just annoying since they can blip around all over and you’re stuck there with basically no mobility.

Citadel Orders – These are probably one of the better parts to Renegade. Heroic is nice if you need to keep Fervor up and it’s about to go down, but the might generated is pretty lackluster compared to Herald. Bombardment I wasn’t impressed with the 900 range or 40 energy cost but after trying it out I see why and it made the cost pretty worth it. I was condi focused and saw a lot of high burns was very impressive. Above’s Alacrity was very impressive and welcome.

Breakrazor Bastion – Right off the bat I saw everything wrong with these “wells” or “spirits” when I summoned her and she got immediately feared and started running away for a few seconds before resuming her aura. Complete and total garbage for WvW. Stun break on heal is interesting, a 3/4th cast time (more…) is not. The reduction in Condis is nice but over all this heal isn’t functionally useful in a fight since the spirit can just get CC’d and the effects all stop.

Icerazor’s Ire – Not much to say here, Chill/Vuln field. Damage feels low. The 600 range doesn’t help. Would probably be more interesting with Chill to provide additional Torment from Corruption line than Cripple.

Darkrazor’s Daring – 1/4th Daze on 1 pulses is neat but as fast as people move it didn’t really stop anything. Might be decent as a stab remover but that’s about it.

Razorclaw’s Rage – Probably the only well I liked because he Bleed it does is attributed to the Revenant not the player who does the attack. That means it scales with my condi damage even if a power player is doing the procs. Was super cool to buff up the allies and add Bleeds to their attacks while I sat back unable to fight in a 1200 vs 1200 fight.

Soulcleave Summit – This was again a neat thing to buff up allies, but I didn’t see much use out of it lacking the sustain to really stick in a fight. Only chance I got to really use it myself in a fight was in a 1v1 and it didn’t really hurt but I don’t feel like it gave me the fight either. Probably better as a free damage add in PvE.

Renegade Traits – Biggest issue I see with basing things off Fury is Herald is our most consistent source of Fury when we’re solo. The small amount of disables and evasions (I mean, basically dodge roll) we get make the other two Adept traits questionable as well. Stunbreak CC sounds nice in theory, but again we have very few stun breaks as a class making Heart Piercer the default go to in Master level (as even without a Short Bow the increased Bleed damage would benefit Geomancy Sigils). Good Grandmaster traits as each have good benefits to them, was hard choice, but probably going with lazy convenience of Improved Fervor.

Basically Revenant has very few ways to deal with conditions. Many other classes can go with an offensive weapon, offensive trait setup, and still slot defensive Utilities which the Revenant just can’t do. This makes having a new Legend lacking stun breaks (I mean, to the heal? Really?) and ways to deal with conditions on you (reducing damage by 33% is great and all but 3k burn stacks are real). This makes Kalla a really squishy option that just has no place in SPvP or WvW especially when it’s directly competing against the utility Juggernaut of Herald. This makes Kalla basically fit perfectly into a PvE condition role because now Revs can be condition focused without wholly giving up their offensive support role. But SPvP and WvW both wholly rely on defenses considering the immense levels of damage, conditions, etc out there and Kalla adds nothing there and the base Revenant options (Jalis, Retribution Traits, etc) aren’t enough to carry it.

Would group comps not help support the role as condi DPS?

I agree, the whole “conditions are Revenant’s weak spot” makes no sense when most classes have ways around every weak spot.

Cleansing Channel should at least heal 2 conditions since even base mobs apply 2 conditions, and that makes even pve exploration pretty hard considering the amount of cripple you get.

A second trait that allows condi cleans on heal would also allow us to avoig having Jalis on every build, since its heal is the only decent condi cleanse among every stance except Centaur.

The stun break on the Heal makes no sense, you’re basically forced to use your cd heal even at full hp to prevent losing more.

The wells cost A TON of energy and can even be killed or feared, making them WAY weaker then normal wells.

I don’t mind the shortbow being weaker than the Hammer to be honest, the Hammer is a power weapon while the shortbow is condi. It shouldn’t be better in any way.

Also Renegade is 100% different from Herald. Different legends, different traits, different gear. A “build swap” button would be much appreciated, since Herald is still useful for most of the content that is not “dps role in Raid”.

Energy costs are so high I can basically do 2-3 skills before being forced to swap legend. At least some are on Fx buttons, but they cost energy too.
This spec is SO different from Herald that I demand a “build swap” button.

My experience so far has been fairly positive.

SB is pretty solid, range lacking but otherwise nice condi dmg and utility. What’s weird is the summons seem more geared around staying in place, at least on a point. Would better suit a melee weapon I think

Heal feels really weak and shouldn’t be the only stun break.

Razorclaw’s rage is fine, nice to drop on a friendly zerg.

Not really used Icerazor’s much as don’t have alot of spare energy. Problem for the legend in general is high energy costs.

Darkrazor’s daring is very nice, great to drop on a downed ally to prevent stomps.

Soulcleave’s summit again not problems.

There is an issue with the summons not working in knee high water, as I posted in another thread, hopefully this is just a bug.

F skills are a little underwelming. Not really used F2 much, F3 probably the best but way too expensive. kittenain way too expensive for what it does, why half kitten d alcarity again? Would suggest putting a stun break on that or swiftness. Legendary has no mobility.

Underwater ignored again…

Will look into traits more.

BlazeQ.1095:

Would group comps not help support the role as condi DPS?

Okay so when you’re looking at group comps you gotta look at what that person also brings to the group. In the case of the Renegade, that’s unfortunately very little. You’re going to need to be brought into a dual Guardian group (for stab). But lets break down what Kalla can do for a team:

1. Share Might stacks (Citadel Order). Herald already did this, but also provided a lot of other boons as well. More importantly, since you gotta be in a Dual Guardian group anyways chances are extremely likely they will be running dual staff for might stacks before an engage anyways.

2. Provides Alacrity (Citadel Order). This isn’t a bad add, and with the right Trait you’re looking at a 6s of Alacrity every 20s which isn’t bad at all. This is arguably one of the better uses for Kalla’s trait line.

That’s it (unique to Kalla).

Now before you protest, understand most of the wells are useless. Almost all the benefits of Wells will be negated by hard bombs (which will kill the spirits, already tested) or by the high mobility WvW requires (you’re out of their wells/effects). So any benefits those could add in a group fight are pretty much negated by the fact they can die and be CC’d which also negate their effects.

So this means you wouldn’t take wells and you wouldn’t take shortbow even if you want to do Condi. At that point the trait line and Citadel Orders directly compete with Herald trait line and Natural Resonance and all things considered Herald is just vastly superior for WvW. It gives the Revenant additional stability, shares might stacks with allies, and adds to boon durations which boons kinda make the WvW world go ’round.

For PvE this is an entirely other matter and Renegade has a clear seat at the table as a viable Herald alternative for a PvE condition focused Revenant rocking Corruption, Kalla and Destruction/Invocation. Wells being obliterated is less of a concern and they have seemingly good set of uses.

Yes, please fix energy costs. I use like 2 weapon skills and I’m pretty much locked out of every ability I have. Seems like you’re forced to constantly switch legends in order to keep up any energy at all.

Small hint to ANet: do not try to count every scenario. Try to count just more realistic ones. 0.0001% of players will do something like Breakrazor+Versed in stone or something similar. It just does NOT work and it really kills that class.

making the summons able to be cc’d and killed is just dooming them to never be used. it already happened with spirit weapons so theres precedent.

Street Peddler.2638:

making the summons able to be cc’d and killed is just dooming them to never be used. it already happened with spirit weapons so theres precedent.

Don’t know who’s idea it was to give rev summons. Summons are the worst and most disappointing skills in the game

As I originally guessed, its gonna be bad in PvP. There is no way in hell that this is beta than Herald in PvP.

Its an alright spec. Personally, I find it to be the least…satisfying out of all the elite specs. It doesn’t really feel special. The whole “firing arrows through the mists” is a really cool concept, but doesn’t feel fleshed out. There’s really one skill, maybe 2 depending on what you count as it, that feels like it does this in a cool manner.

The utility skills are lame too. Some of them are good, but as others have said, they seem super PvE focused. They’re basically ranger spirits.

I think Renegade will fill kitten that the class has needed for a long time in PvE. But I think other gamemodes will feel disappointed.

I will have to agree that most skills feel clunky to use. Path to target checks for some reason, can’t cast SB 4 at your feet, nor backwards (it should basically work like DH longbow, the whole bow kit is almost identical in functionality, allow us to line cast SB 5) the cast times on the summons are too long as well. They already take about a second after being summoned to use their effects.

And f3’s cost is way too massive, yes. It’s basically elite levels of energy consumption.

Please add some chill application to shortbow somewhere! Or add it to icerazor’s ire! For goodness sake his name has ice in it and his attacks are ice based! Vuln stacks do us no good in pve! Virtually any group will hit the 25 vuln cap fast! Just make him do less attacks and give chill. Where is the synergy with mallyx? I feel like i should stay in mallyx, spam ua and if I have to for a secondary heal use kallas elite skill. Thats it. (Assuming your kalla skills dont get killed or feared or stunned before they do anything). Just my 2 cents.

Just curious also is the heal skill supposed to be useless and they assume we just use the elite instead? Cause it seems like it…. the healing feels non-existent.

Energy consumption with the new elite is ridiculous.

also,

The renegade seems to be way focused only to pve, this elite needs a lot of work yet. Smh I expected something better.

Can Shortbow skills cost no energy?

F3 and elite are strong and fun, but they greatly overshadow other energy-spending “options”…

This weekend bums me out so bad as I see they other classes rejoicing in their cool new stuff, and I got to dislocate my retinas rolling my eyes so hard at the renegade kit.

It has so many glaring weaknesses in it, I at least expected it to make up for them with super good damage or cool, desirable utility or something… But, alas, no—it’s purely an eye candy spec. Sadly, it feels like more time was put into making the animations and designing new skill shot stencils than actually thinking about or playing the class.

To be honest, i dont know where to start.

Good things first

• The Shortbow has an solid kit, at least for a condition based build.
• I like the idea to use Kallla’s Favor as ressource for skills so that you have to choose
  between buff or skill

So…now to the bad things

Utility Skills:

• They are boring and you dont have the feeling that they provide any impact on the gameplay
• The Npcs are stationary and i had more the impression they give a dance performance instead of fighting
• The casttime of the skills are very long and for a stationary skill it will be hard to be placed correctly in the heat of battle
• For this reason the damage that these skills provides are more than under whelming
• They dont support the forced condition oriented play well.

Seriously! Whats the point of Razorclaw’s Rage? 50 possible bleed stacks where in worst case the outcome would be 10k dmg if no one has condition damage?
But i think the target would be dead before this happens.

Traits

• Many traits provide only advantage for bow and condition specs(forced again)
• No trait realy feels like a trademark for the renegade

Profession mechanic

• Citadel Bombardment does not scale well with power, again condition only(and i dont understand why a missle will not have an kenetic impact, are chars missles made out of magmar?)
• Kallla’s Favor only support condition specs(yeah…i know)

My final impression
Ok, ive played over the last few years many different professions, in PVE and WvW and this with many different specs and i must say, the renegade is the first spec where i thought “This is garbage”.

Its starts with the point that the whole Legend cries “play condition or go to hell”. Why is that so? Many traits and skills could also very good support an power based build. The only thing that you guys have to do is to change condition damage, to the damage type of the highest attribute.

Condition, power, healpower, toughness The engeneer is the best example how versatile a profession can be and you already said it elite specialisation have the purpose to give us new ways to play, but does this means that the limit of an elite spec is only a one way road? Herold is the best example that it is not.

I really love this game but this is a heave punch in my face. If i were an PO i would say: “Thats not what i wanted back to scratch”.

FlOwMaKeRs.8623:

Energy consumption with the new elite is ridiculous.

also,

The renegade seems to be way focused only to pve, this elite needs a lot of work yet. Smh I expected something better.

Except it’s damage is way too terrible to make an impact in PvE. I unloaded short bow 2, 3, 4, and Orbital Bombardment on a downed Spellthief and it took him from 80% to 20% bleed out when all the condi’s finished ticking. (I was using Viper’s Amulet).

ttyl.6021:

Can Shortbow skills cost no energy?

F3 and elite are strong and fun, but they greatly overshadow other energy-spending “options”…

Energy cost on weapons should be gone, period!

Even if this was a “pve” spec, all of the current meta pve builds have horrible energy management to make any of the utility skills actually responsive to battle, and the Renegade skills are the worst offenders for bad energy management. They are too energy hungry to make any of them available when you need them while actually continuing any sort of dps rotation, either with shortbow or mace/axe.

Overall, when battling Guild Lord and other pve mobs in WvW, it just seems that over half of my Renegade utility skills are just unavailable if I am to keep up condi dps, regardless of shortbow or mace/axe.

I’m not going to even start about underwater combat since revenants just get screwed in general.

With only a month until release, I highly suggest looking back at the “flow” of renegade playstyle… mainly in energy management to be able to maintain a dps rotation in pve, while still having energy to actually use our utility/class skills. For pvp, I think some of the cast times need to be reevaluated.

With another year for the next expac, I highly suggest you just redesign the core philosophy of Revenant. As a Ritualist main from GW1, I’m trying hard to really like this class since Engineer didn’t satisfy the hole in my soul.

Please, Robert and Irenio, please!!!

Shortbow skill 3 – Sevenshot – needs work… badly. It’s practically a waste of energy as it is, with how often the projectiles vanish.

My post was removed for telling the truth LOL. Okay so I’ll be more specific/constructive about why the spec is very bad. The shortbow is far far far too clunky with wayyyy too long casts times and awkward mechanics PLUS bad damage. The legend is very very bad because it has summons which don’t really do a whole lot if they don’t get instakilled, along with having insane energy costs, and the heal has to be the worst heal in the game. None of the shortbow or legend skills do good damage even when specced into pure damage with vipers, scavangers and devastation/corruption/renegade. The new f skills are bad, the only one that would be worth using is the f3 but it costs 40 energy? lol. I mean 4 seconds of alacrity for the f4? Not even worth the cast time or energy cost. Oh and NO swiftness in this build whatsoever? Are you joking lol? The whole thing needs RE-DOING, not tweaking because it has fundamental problems that can’t be fixed by changing numbers. Traits are super weak too. Just overall I’d rather play core revenant than this spec.

Blood Fury is supposed to grant +25% bleeding duration when you have fury. All indications are that it simply does not work at the moment. I will reserve judgment until they fix it. But for now I can tell you that I am doing almost 100% more damage with mace/axe than shortbow. This elite spec seems quite under-tuned.

Shortbow is broken when combine with piercing.
It literally hits 25 targets now and doing massive aoe bleeding

Combine this with Mallyxe trait line for additional torment, poison .
Use #4 for aoe burning for more aoe and some slow.

skill #3 and #2 are pretty terrible though. Not worth using at all.

Ok, first impressions: Renegade is depressing; I won’t call it an “elite specialization” due is mostly plebeian (but without the utility of providing food).

For WvW roaming/pvp seems that doesn’t have anything usable: Kalla skills are “all the nopes” and by far the worst legend you can bring to a duel. I was expecting at least the shortbow to become usefull as a hybrid damage weapon (like the Ranger sb), but isn’t. Lacks any defensive skill and seems weaker than the hammer, to be honest.

The traitline is good, but that’s all: Mallyx + Glint or Mallyx + Shiro seems to be way better choices than Kalla for a condi Renegade in Conquest or roaming, but with the bow you either lose the defensive staff (so the bow replaces mace + axe as condition dealing weapon, being weaker) or you go sb + mace + axe and then you’re frail as hell.

I guess that will be decent to complet the new maps, but I’m seriously annoyed for being waiting two years for a viable new build of Revenant for PvP and roaming, which this “thing” isn’t. I don’t like the legend, most of the skills and most of the traitline. Seems like I’m buying the expansion for a +25% condition duration trait. I’ll stay in the 30 € purchase. No mood for crafting a legendary shortbow for this crap, also.

lol, I already went and crafted a legendary shortbow for it. Well, there’s always my ranger.

In WvW it’s complete and utter trash. Energy costs are way too high, you have few stunbreaks, no condi defense, no swiftness, etc. Remove everything that’s good about herald and you have renegade.

Terrible Design on this spec…. Not viable in any kind of Pvp AT ALL for all the above reasons… Seems Anet is way behind when it comes to Rev. Every other class has a ton of condi removal with there respective Condi specs and we just have Condi dammage. Terrible Condi dammage to add. All the skill are clunky to use and underwhelming for there energy costs. The Summons are extremely useless, any team outside of BRONZE LEAGUE will be able to play around them way to easily. I could keep going on and on but this is just depressing. Please just redo the entire Elite spec.

Glad I didn’t pre-order the xpac. This elite spec is terrible. Can you believe all the casting on Kalla? Not to mention if you get interupted during the heal, you lose it AND it goes on full cooldown. If feels like a waste of energy even to use these things, save for Darkrazor’s Daring. Icerazor’s Ires suffers from the same targeting we all hate about sword 2, flying in all directions, not picking a target and sticking with it. Renegade needs an overhaul.

SB1: It is fine, maybe it can be really good in zergs vs zergs with Heartpiercer

SB2: I love how this work, you can trigger flanking traits (Assassin’s Annihilation and Ambush Commander) and bypass some defensive skills (DH F3, Wall of Reflection, Field of the Mists, Shattering Blow ). Really good job with this skill it feel unique and fit the rev theme

SB3: i like the skill but i feel that this skill is super bad and most of the times a waste of energy. 6 of 9 times half of the shot miss/disappears for some unknown reason and if you are too far away to hit a full combo, you are going to miss a lot of boons in pve unless the boss is super huge (and in pvp is really super hard to hit all the arrows,) rn at close range you can hit 1 or 2 with luck of the seven arrow….
i hate this bug…..

SB4: can’t be shot behind you (i dont know why you cant because the SB2 and SB3 can be shot behind you)

SB5: this skill looks amazing and has a good CC but it feel clunky in pvp, just turn it into a skill shot (like Deflecting Shoot), and may be 5 less energy cost

Pd: I like the Razorclaw’s Rage new feature, it has no icd (in the tooltip says this bleeding can only be inflicted once per interval). which means that bloodbone path can apply 6 stack of bleed and 7 stack of bleed with sevenshot, i think that this is a bug.

Sorry for my bad english

Keep in mind that in pve and raids many times you don’t use your full weapon skill set. I hardly ever use sword 3 as cPS, not in the rotation so yea, still might be some hope for this and raids.

Faee.1439:

My post was removed for telling the truth LOL. Okay so I’ll be more specific/constructive about why the spec is very bad. The shortbow is far far far too clunky with wayyyy too long casts times and awkward mechanics PLUS bad damage. The legend is very very bad because it has summons which don’t really do a whole lot if they don’t get instakilled, along with having insane energy costs, and the heal has to be the worst heal in the game. None of the shortbow or legend skills do good damage even when specced into pure damage with vipers, scavangers and devastation/corruption/renegade. The new f skills are bad, the only one that would be worth using is the f3 but it costs 40 energy? lol. I mean 4 seconds of alacrity for the f4? Not even worth the cast time or energy cost. Oh and NO swiftness in this build whatsoever? Are you joking lol? The whole thing needs RE-DOING, not tweaking because it has fundamental problems that can’t be fixed by changing numbers. Traits are super weak too. Just overall I’d rather play core revenant than this spec.

Totally agree. Especially the no swiftness it’s like moving in slow motion.

Either I am missing something major, or this isn’t a remotely competitive spec for pvp. Not even a good cheese build or troll build or anything but give enemy team an easy win build.

Joxer.6024:

Keep in mind that in pve and raids many times you don’t use your full weapon skill set. I hardly ever use sword 3 as cPS, not in the rotation so yea, still might be some hope for this and raids.

Sword 3 is a dps increase to your rotation once the boss reaches 50%…