Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to give feedback that AI SPAWNS on every single skill the new legend brings kittening SUCKS. The concept of AI is suuuuuper lame and giving rev AI takes away whole levels of play possibilities that other specs are getting with their new skills. Please have a redo at the rev elite spec cuz the concept is awful. I don’t even care if it turns out to be OP, its lame and boring

My understanding is that the utilities are not AI. They are more like wells with fancy animations. It’s not like a spirit or a minion that you can kill and it doesn’t act on its own.

And the xpac is out in September. They certainly aren’t going to redo the elite at this stage of the game.

Fortunatelly is possible to use the Renegade traitline, wield the shortbow and then to ditch entirely the Kalla legend, using something like Mallyx + Shiro and Corruption/Invocation/Renegade with mace + axe and shortbow for an optimal build. And if the shot bow falls being subpar could be replaced for the staff; at least the traitline would offer a condition damage buff.

But yeah, Kalla is a weak choice both in terms of skills (“stances”) and lore.

xarallei.4279:

My understanding is that the utilities are not AI. They are more like wells with fancy animations. It’s not like a spirit or a minion that you can kill and it doesn’t act on its own.

And the xpac is out in September. They certainly aren’t going to redo the elite at this stage of the game.

They’re all killable. They’re like a mix of AI and a well.

Yea they are really just spirits. Sucks a lot. I wish they would change them but they will not. The engi is a perfect example. They revealed gyros and we all said please god no more ai. And we still got em.

Milan.9035:

Yea they are really just spirits. Sucks a lot. I wish they would change them but they will not. The engi is a perfect example. They revealed gyros and we all said please god no more ai. And we still got em.

Honestly renegade doesn’t strike me as a pvp spec, same way as spellbreaker is more of a pvp spec. In pve they’re fine since they changed how aoe damage hurts AIs, they’re basically unkillable there.

To me spirits aren’t AI. They have an area of effect and they just create pulses, they are longlasting wells with life. And that’s quite ok for pve.

But if they were just wells instead or even movable it would not have an effect on pve but would be much better for pvp.

Why cant it be a pvp and pve elite like most are?

OMG AI is so LAME. Soooo boring. I want THIS, I want THAT. Pls REWORK the entire game for me because everything is LAME and BORING.

How about you wait till the next test weekend before you start barking on the forums?

Les.4872:

How about you wait till the next test weekend before you start barking on the forums?

Maybe because we already saw every trait and skill, did our maths, and figured how far can go.

Anyway, I’ll wait until the weekend to chose either the 30 € or the 80 € version of the expansion; due I’m mostly involved in PvP/WvW my grade of support will be related about the level of usefulness of the Renegade in those landscapes.

NaiveBayes.2587:

xarallei.4279:

My understanding is that the utilities are not AI. They are more like wells with fancy animations. It’s not like a spirit or a minion that you can kill and it doesn’t act on its own.

And the xpac is out in September. They certainly aren’t going to redo the elite at this stage of the game.

They’re all killable. They’re like a mix of AI and a well.

Awww really? So it’s like a spirit well hybrid? That’s kind of disappointing. But I’ll wait and see this weekend before I judge.

xarallei.4279:

My understanding is that the utilities are not AI. They are more like wells with fancy animations. It’s not like a spirit or a minion that you can kill and it doesn’t act on its own.

And the xpac is out in September. They certainly aren’t going to redo the elite at this stage of the game.

Never say never. They gave us weapon swap right before HoT.

Milan.9035:

Yea they are really just spirits. Sucks a lot. I wish they would change them but they will not. The engi is a perfect example. They revealed gyros and we all said please god no more ai. And we still got em.

I actually like the concept of AI builds. If only the skills were good. Other games do this very well. Had fun with my Druid in Rift, and my Warlock in WoW.

Mesmer AI isn’t terrible. I think the problem is that a Charr legend that isn’t Rytlock simply blows. What did this chick do anyway? We should have had Eir, muahaha

nosleepdemon.1368:

I think the problem is that a Charr legend that isn’t Pyre Fierceshot simply blows.

Ftfy

Charrs are largely atheists and somehow instead of gaining a norn (Jora)/human (like Ossa) legend, we get stuck with stupid charr.

Zenith.7301:

Charrs are largely atheists and somehow instead of gaining a norn (Jora)/human (like Ossa) legend, we get stuck with stupid charr.

What do you mean?
Just because they dont have gods to worship doesn’t mean that they dont have revered legendary figures. For the Norn, its Aesgier and Jora, to them, its Pyre and Kalla (among others).

Euthymias.7984:

Zenith.7301:

Charrs are largely atheists and somehow instead of gaining a norn (Jora)/human (like Ossa) legend, we get stuck with stupid charr.

What do you mean?
Just because they dont have gods to worship doesn’t mean that they dont have revered legendary figures. For the Norn, its Aesgier and Jora, to them, its Pyre and Kalla (among others).

They are not spiritual nor do they embrace concepts like the mists. The charr have always been a techno-industrial race who cast out their spiritual leanings due to the stigma placed on the flame legion.

Zenith.7301:

Charrs are largely atheists and somehow instead of gaining a norn (Jora)/human (like Ossa) legend, we get stuck with stupid charr.

Revenant channel souls from the Mist. Religion has nothing to do with that since the Mist records all history

Zenith.7301:

They are not spiritual nor do they embrace concepts like the mists. The charr have always been a techno-industrial race who cast out their spiritual leanings due to the stigma placed on the flame legion.

Think of the Mists like the Force in Star Wars. You dont have to believe in it to still be a part of it; the Force exists everywhere, it binds all things together. Even the slightest touch or action between beings within it can leave ripples or echoes throughout that can affect many.

Sweeping changes or tragedies can leave an impression on the Mists, not unlike a Wound in the Force. Shiro’s treachery sowing great ruin, Jalis calling upon the Great Dwarf to stave off Destroyers for hundreds of years, Mallyx’s rallying of all demons and margonites in the RoT in conquest, Ventari’s imprinting of knowledge on an entire race, Kalla’s Rebellion against the Shaman Caste and the changes that came of it?

All leave behind an impression that echoes through those touched by it.

In this context, Revenants are Force Sensitives – They are able to perceive these great Echoes through the Force and channel aspects of it in the manifestations of these Legends. – the “source” of the Echo.

If Charr were only as you say, then they may as well not become Revenants in the first place, lel. It wouldn’t stop any other race with that profession from perceiving Kalla, though.

Euthymias.7984:

If Charr were only as you say, then they may as well not become Revenants in the first place, lel. It wouldn’t stop any other race with that profession from perceiving Kalla, though.

Which is funny considering Rytlock, a charr, is the first known revenant.

xarallei.4279:

Euthymias.7984:

If Charr were only as you say, then they may as well not become Revenants in the first place, lel. It wouldn’t stop any other race with that profession from perceiving Kalla, though.

Which is funny considering Rytlock, a charr, is the first known revenant.

Rytlock is their Mary Sue ala Scarlet anyways. Just like they’re trying really hard to depict Ascalonian rebels as ultrarationalist racists.

They love their tobaco smoking Duke Nukem cat, and seeing as he’s the one original Destiny’s Edge member left as they’ve pretty much discarded the rest with the odd drop ins by Caithe and even rarer Logan appearances, the alternatives for a revenant were few considering Braham became a dragonhunter and Rox is….well.

Zenith.7301:

xarallei.4279:

Euthymias.7984:

If Charr were only as you say, then they may as well not become Revenants in the first place, lel. It wouldn’t stop any other race with that profession from perceiving Kalla, though.

Which is funny considering Rytlock, a charr, is the first known revenant.

Rytlock is their Mary Sue ala Scarlet anyways. Just like they’re trying really hard to depict Ascalonian rebels as ultrarationalist racists.

They love their tobaco smoking Duke Nukem cat, and seeing as he’s the one original Destiny’s Edge member left as they’ve pretty much discarded the rest with the odd drop ins by Caithe and even rarer Logan appearances, the alternatives for a revenant were few considering Braham became a dragonhunter and Rox is….well.

Funny, since I love my revenant, but absolutely despise Rytlock as a character. Granted I dismiss most of the story anyway, Rytlock gets a special place for my scorn since I can’t get into the lore much if I wanted to because he’d show up.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Milan.9035:

Yea they are really just spirits. Sucks a lot. I wish they would change them but they will not. The engi is a perfect example. They revealed gyros and we all said please god no more ai. And we still got em.

Honestly renegade doesn’t strike me as a pvp spec, same way as spellbreaker is more of a pvp spec. In pve they’re fine since they changed how aoe damage hurts AIs, they’re basically unkillable there.

honestly renegade will be as good as longbow on war which is insanely good on both

and i think AI rev will be insanely good because it has two sets of utility

The renegade scream “charr” with every single skills it have.

My sylvari revenant can’t wait for it’s equally lame futur legend with all it’s skills spawning plant turret and the awesome special mechanism that will allow it to take root reducing all incoming damage at the cost of it’s mobility. With the greatsword…

I’m also sure all asura can’t wait to have a taste of the legendary golemancer with it’s special golem suit transformation on F2 and it’s load of pollution skills as utility.

Trehearne legend! haha.

Dadnir.5038:

The renegade scream “charr” with every single skills it have.

My sylvari revenant can’t wait for it’s equally lame futur legend with all it’s skills spawning plant turret

Have you heard of your lord and saviour Ventari? :p

Dude, they are never making ritualists in this game so this is the closest thing I can get. I’m very upset. Can ya just let me have this one and not get it reworked?

ScottBroChill.3254:

Dude, they are never making ritualists in this game so this is the closest thing I can get. I’m very upset. Can ya just let me have this one and not get it reworked?

I dunno, the new Scourge seems to be pretty much identical in the way it summons spirits and pulses effects/attacks around them.

Dadnir.5038:

awesome special mechanism that will allow it to take root reducing all incoming damage at the cost of it’s mobility. With the greatsword…

Just play a Power Reaper lol

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Dadnir.5038:

The renegade scream “charr” with every single skills it have.

My sylvari revenant can’t wait for it’s equally lame futur legend with all it’s skills spawning plant turret

Have you heard of your lord and saviour Ventari? :p

Nope ventari is lacking the freshness of the lettuce, chewing on it feel like they grain of sand everywhere. After all he summon a rock tablet not fresh plants.

Zoltreez.6435:

Dadnir.5038:

awesome special mechanism that will allow it to take root reducing all incoming damage at the cost of it’s mobility. With the greatsword…

Just play a Power Reaper lol

They were able to do it on reapers, they will most likely do the same on revenant.

The point of my post was more that the renegade’s skill are really close to the charr racials skills. Summon warband being the core of the way they works and there is even F2 (heroic fervor) which is basically battle roar and F3 (citadel bombardment) which is artillery barrage. I won’t go as far as saying that the charzooka and the bow are the same but…

Now, if you look at what we know of the sylvari and their strange fetish for calabolg the greatsword… We could easily end up with this e-spec that scream sylvaris. The right ingredient are :
- a greatsword (of course!)
- an healing plant turret
- a plant turret that throw projectile that bleeds ennemies
- a skill that root ennemies the same way ranger’s entangle do it (minus the bleeding effect)
- The summon of a plant spirit with special effect as an upkeep
- and obviously the “take roots” F2 that make you super resilient at the cost of all mobility except movement skills.

On the other hand asuras are all about golems. We could end up with a set of all purpose golems following us (a mix between ranger pets and drone).
- Five golems that have the basic fonction of a ranger’s pet.
- I’d add a focus as a support weapon with repair fonction for the golems. Something that produce animation that give a super high technology feel tlike typing on a pocket watch.
- healing skill would summon a few drone that rotate around you and your golem to heal you and maybe block attack for a short duration
- elite skill would make the revenant enter a golem suit, granting him access to the golem skills from the racial elite power suit. Upkeep skill.
- utility skills would create an area of effect around your pet (pain inverter, radiation field and D serie golem projectile block.)

Humans are all about gods. They could make it into an all around e-spec that focus on wielding the power of gods. An interesting thing would be to do things around “shouts”.
- I think that something based on kormir could do great as special mechanism. The fact that she was a paragon before godhood could create an upkeep F2 that apply a shout effect every 3 seconds. I’d name it Kormir’s hymn
- Dwayna as an healing shout skill : Glory to dwayna!
- Grenth would just massively debuff foes around you as a shout. embrace the lord of death!
- Lyssa would apply it’s chaotic effect converting enemies boons into conditions and allies condition into boon. Feel the grace of lyssa!
- elite skill would be melandru and it’s awesome relationship with nature cleansing all conditions on allies and healing them for each condition cleansed. Break stun as well.

As for our last race, the norns. I guess it would be time to stimulate their wild side.
- The F2 skill would allow a beastform that would depend on which GM trait you take (Bear, wolf and leopard). This would just replace the weapon skills and eat an upkeep (energy -4). obviously outside of the autoattack each skill would gain an energy cost.
- The utilities would be on the selfish side since norns value personnal strenght above all.
- The heal might as well be related to the wurm with a vitality boost passive and a heal on use. signet of the wurm
- The owl would grant a movement boost as passive and stealth on use. signet of the owl
- The crow would grant condition damage as passive and would bleed on active signet of the crow
- The drake would grant passive power and a knockback active. signet of the drake
- The elite would be the blessing of the wilderness granting energy as passive in a way that it reduce a lot the upkeep cost feel of the F2 (something like regen energy +2) and having a powerfull selfbuff for a short time as an active. signet of the beastman

… Oh god… I could somehow enjoy these specs, especially the norn’s one. I think that I’d somehow really feel like a norn if I could enter beastform whenever i want.

lmao people crying about constant daze from a summon suck? Ok..

i heard the summons can be damaged

is that true????

Aeolus.3615:

i heard the summons can be damaged

is that true????

they can be killed, just like ranger/guardian’s summons.

I’m a bit worried when I see that the Elite actually puts you at ONE health. That practically means you can never use it in PvP, and it’s going to be incredibly dangerous to use in PvE. Not a fan. That just seems like a recipe for the downed state every time you use it. In PvP it’s like a “I surrender” button I guess. People can laugh at Revenant even more as they just give up. The enemy can see when it is summoned. The enemy can learn how long it takes before the 1 health state triggers. Not to forget that conditions exist. That sure feels like an Elite.. what are they thinking? I’m almost worried it does that to your allies too. Renegade will quickly be the most hated class in the game if that’s the case. Unless this is some sort of thing that can affect enemies as well (which would be equally as broken) by standing in the AoE circle and only trigger from that, then.. regardless, that Elite just seems stupid.

Edit: My bad, didn’t consider that Karl used dev hacks to lower his health to 1.

Absconditus.6804:

I’m a bit worried when I see that the Elite actually puts you at ONE health. That practically means you can never use it in PvP, and it’s going to be incredibly dangerous to use in PvE. Not a fan. That just seems like a recipe for the downed state every time you use it. In PvP it’s like a “I surrender” button I guess. People can laugh at Revenant even more as they just give up. The enemy can see when it is summoned. The enemy can learn how long it takes before the 1 health state triggers. Not to forget that conditions exist. That sure feels like an Elite.. what are they thinking? I’m almost worried it does that to your allies too. Renegade will quickly be the most hated class in the game if that’s the case. Unless this is some sort of thing that can affect enemies as well (which would be equally as broken) by standing in the AoE circle and only trigger from that, then.. regardless, that Elite just seems stupid.

Is it actually on the skill or were they doing that just to demonstrate the amount of lifesteal the elite adds?

To be honest, by looking at the Renegade elite spec i also think they are underwhelming and boring.

I wish we could equip Glint legend with renegade Traitline.

Absconditus.6804:

I’m a bit worried when I see that the Elite actually puts you at ONE health. That practically means you can never use it in PvP, and it’s going to be incredibly dangerous to use in PvE. Not a fan. That just seems like a recipe for the downed state every time you use it. In PvP it’s like a “I surrender” button I guess. People can laugh at Revenant even more as they just give up. The enemy can see when it is summoned. The enemy can learn how long it takes before the 1 health state triggers. Not to forget that conditions exist. That sure feels like an Elite.. what are they thinking? I’m almost worried it does that to your allies too. Renegade will quickly be the most hated class in the game if that’s the case. Unless this is some sort of thing that can affect enemies as well (which would be equally as broken) by standing in the AoE circle and only trigger from that, then.. regardless, that Elite just seems stupid.

That was just Karl using Dev cheats to drop his health so you could see how much it heals, that’s not going to happen ingame.

It worth mentioning that the elite is also an upkeep fire field, which doesn’t show up in the tooltip.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Absconditus.6804:

I’m a bit worried when I see that the Elite actually puts you at ONE health. That practically means you can never use it in PvP, and it’s going to be incredibly dangerous to use in PvE. Not a fan. That just seems like a recipe for the downed state every time you use it. In PvP it’s like a “I surrender” button I guess. People can laugh at Revenant even more as they just give up. The enemy can see when it is summoned. The enemy can learn how long it takes before the 1 health state triggers. Not to forget that conditions exist. That sure feels like an Elite.. what are they thinking? I’m almost worried it does that to your allies too. Renegade will quickly be the most hated class in the game if that’s the case. Unless this is some sort of thing that can affect enemies as well (which would be equally as broken) by standing in the AoE circle and only trigger from that, then.. regardless, that Elite just seems stupid.

That was just Karl using Dev cheats to drop his health so you could see how much it heals, that’s not going to happen ingame.

It worth mentioning that the elite is also an upkeep fire field, which doesn’t show up in the tooltip.

Mace is going to make that fire field nasty, especially if you can get off several blasts with 1 mace 3 hit.

Having spent a good amount of time playing a venom share thief in pve as well as mallyx/jallis condi rev I have to say I am extremely hyped for Razorclaw’s Rage! With venom share you get 4(Devourer->panic strike->potent poison)+6(spider) applications of poison every 30-40 seconds shared with 5 allies. With Razorclaw’s Rage you get 1 application of bleeding every second for 5 allies for 10 seconds on a 15 sec cooldown. With 100% alacrity uptime Razorclaw’s Rage could be up all the time! that’s 50 stacks of bleed on a boss every ten seconds, 150 stacks every 30 seconds, compare that to 50 stacks of poison every 20-27(with 100% alacrity uptime) seconds for condi thief. It’s going to be rad!

I also like that the heal is a stun break!

I am curious to see if renegade, corruption, devastation with nightmare/trapper runes and geomancy/smoldering will be raid meta kindof using all the bow skills, and maybe citadel bombardment as well. Or if renegade, devastation, invocation with krait runes and agony/earth using only bow 1+2 will be better? Can’t wait till tonight to find out! Although it might not be easy to get the answer without the special forces training area, the pvp dummies have smallish hp pools.

My bad, right, didn’t think about Karl just dropping his health. Saw now that it doesn’t do that. The elite isn’t bad. Renegade does feel clunky though, and it costs a whole lot to use skills. The trait line helps a lot for the condition specs at least.

yeah i didnt like it much since its new ill give it a chance maybe ill change my mind

i tried it for some minutes, the only good thing about it is that i can use my legendary SB that i have in the bank. Renegade with ponys is amazing lol but i didnt like it much. IMO is hard to replace glint, renegade seem not so movil and the utilities are meeeh. Healing skill kinda bad, i died all the time. Conditions hurt a lot. I dunno, maybe i ended up liking it, maybe i am just bad but i feel like it needs something.

Horrible pve spec. Nty.. you almost had me back Anet..

Burtnik.5218:

Horrible pve spec. Nty.. you almost had me back Anet..

Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!

Mahou.3924:

Burtnik.5218:

Horrible pve spec. Nty.. you almost had me back Anet..

Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!

Except this time round it’s legit salt. Tested renegade, it’s pretty lame.

Well, at least he can have 9k bleed/sec just from utility

I played it for a bit. Damage seemed underwhelming, had little survivability, and I couldn’t really figure out what this spec is supposed to be for. It seems like it’s meant to be support I guess?

The heal is really bad. I mean, absolutely terrible. I’m not a fan of placing heals in general, but I feel like I placed it and then didn’t actually receive any healing? But then I take damage so easily I wouldn’t notice anyway.

I’m glad I have a character that can use my Chuka, but I’m not really sure what to do with this spec.

played it for the past 5 hours only wvw. for a wvw player the bow is a nice addition (could use some tweaks but not bad) but the skills are awful. It seems to me if they made the renegade spirits invulnerable then that would make a world of difference (and it would make sense because they are ghost after all). As is, they just die when summoned from all the aoe. If it remains this way i could see this, at best, as just using the trait line without the legend, which would be a real bummer because then i wouldn’t have access to dragon stance.

Arcuss.6457:

played it for the past 5 hours only wvw. for a wvw player the bow is a nice addition (could use some tweaks but not bad) but the skills are awful. It seems to me if they made the renegade spirits invulnerable then that would make a world of difference (and it would make sense because they are ghost after all). As is, they just die when summoned from all the aoe. If it remains this way i could see this, at best, as just using the trait line without the legend, which would be a real bummer because then i wouldn’t have access to dragon stance.

I absolutely agree that they should be invuln, I also think that they should move with the player.