Guild Wars 2

Too bad i can’t +1 more than once. You nailed what is wrong with Renegade.I can already see us using mace/axe 99,99% time since SB is soo so lackluster. Low cond dmg/low condi duration…Utilities are a mess, icerazor inflict cripple (lol) instead chill, to synergy with Abyssal Chill…Tbh i don’t see us in a good spot in PoF maybe like a last resort or something…

Amen and man I really wish that the Renegade we tested was simply that, a test. Else we doomed.

Thank you so much for your detailed feedback. I really love the revenant too (replaced ele as one of my main trio), and I hope the renegade gets the attention it needs. I see a lot of potential in it, but it’s held back by some high energy costs and bad mechanics.

Anet better look at this. They really frigged up on this one and need to own up to it and fix it.

And you aren’t even considering the whole boonrip and condi meta that is coming in PoF. Revenant as a whole will be out of the game, not only Renegade.

A few notes from my playtesting which on the whole back up the general thrust of your argument:

• Citadel Bombardment: this skill sprays its missiles out over a fairly large area and with a slight delay, so if you are attempting to hit a single small target on the move (e.g. another player) I found you’ll often hit with few or no projectiles, so you’ll often deal less damage per target than the raw numbers might suggest. In PvE it might be usable against a large boss or to clear swarms of mobs that are spread out over a wide area, but will be squeezed out by more energy-efficient options unless something radical is done about its cost.
• Breakrazor’s Bastion: obviously its terrible right now since the spirit can be killed or CC’ed, but if that was changed I do want to note that this skill has a wide area and very strong scaling with healing, so it works surprisingly well on a healing build as group aid. If therefore Anet were to bite the bullet and finally give each Revenant legend a choice between 4 utility skills Breakrazor could be adapted quite well as that 4th choice, with a new self-only healing skill being created to fill the gap.
• Icerazor’s Ire: this spirit can be affected by the other warband DPS buffs, so if you have them all out these attacks can also bleed and steal life. Of course given how energy-expensive these skills are having several out at once will often not be possible, but hopefully that will change. Overall I found this skill to be a decent backup ranged attack, but only after I dumped shortbow from my build and went melee-only.
• Soulcleave’s Summit: actually during the playtest this skill had no cooldown, and so effects which spammed a lot of attacks (e.g. Mad King Runes) were very powerful with it. It seemed to only apply to one target per AoE however (so e.g. just one of the 3 targets from Mad King runes would take lifedrain).
• Sevencrush: in addition to the reasons you mentioned this skill has been lambasted for being really buggy, with projectiles failing to appear in all but the most featureless terrain.
• Wrought-Iron Will: since healing power is a strong stat for Renegades the regeneration provided by this trait should not be discounted.
• All For One: either the trait or the tooltip was bugged as this gave out significantly more protection in practice than the tooltip displayed. Since as you say the shortbow is weak and outside of shortbow the class has few bleeds I found this to be the most useful trait in quasi-PvE testing.
• Vindication: Kalla’s Fervour has no ICD, so this gives out a lot of might. Another reason to love Mad King Runes.

Perfect, really great write-up.

I think there are some tweak i think would help

-Reduce by 5 energy shortbow skill #4 and #5 and double the duration of burn to be viable; 15e for 1 sec burn and 20e for 2 sec is too much.

-Fix line of sight on shortbow skill 3.

-Random ideas:
– for a shortbow skill: an arrow in a strait line that evade or knock down(if it replace skill#5), burn enemy that it goes through and teleport us at the end of the line so we can have a mobility skill(something like whirlwind attack form warrior GS).
– if the theme is a warband, why don’t give us a utility that buff ally inside it’s range?

- Fskill cost simply too much for what they do,
-Heroic Command is too energy consuming if used on cd(10 sec cd for 20 energy).
-Citadel Bombardment, maybe used as an aoe burst in pve but still need to be cheaper, in wvw you’ll just die to retaliation.
-Orders from Above, if alacrity continue to be unaffected by boon duration this skill is simply useless because to stack a decent quantity of alacrity by yourself you need both this and ventari and even spamming camping tablet you do 0 dps and don’t reach 100% uptime probably because…too energy consuming(and in pve you don’t want another healer when druid give grace of the land and necro give a lot of barrier, and chrono are still better for alacrity/quickness).

-For WvW/PvP, I didn’t test this thing, but trait line may not be that kittentrange as it seem i don’t think you need the shorbow or khalla legend equipped to benefit from the trait line. What are the benefit? 53% crit without any precision of equip(73% with roiling mists), 150 ferocity & 10% condi duration(doubled by Lasting Legacy), Righteous Rebel reduced condi damage on us, so we can use some more defensive oriented equip and still have decent dps or just go strait dps and destroy all.

I don’t have a dedicated WvW spec. I just bring my PVE weapons + armor, and have some ascended marauders trinkets that were easy to get. With that setup and cheap canned WvW food, I break 100% crit chance.

The best part about Brutal Momentum is the vigor. The crit chance increase seems good on paper, but in practice you’ll only have full endurance if you’re tossing hammers in ship vs. ship combat, or at the beginning of the fight. I wouldn’t expect that 30% to really be there otherwise, because again the Renegade is an ambush class with no ambush.

The synergy with Endless Enmity also comes with a highly situational activation window. You have to critical hit an enemy under 50% health. It is no use at the beginning of the fight. In the middle of the fight, you have to critical hit to get fury. For a zerker or marauder build this is a QoL trait, but running Valkyries, you encounter a big problem: in order to get fury, you need to already have fury.

This is true for Brutal Momentum as well. To get the critical hit bonus, you need critical hits to get the fury to get the vigor to get the critical hits to get the fury to get the… and the cycle continues. On a Valkyrie build the traits create a Kafkaesque loop where you need everything in order to get everything. And “everything” starts at 50% health, so you need to already be effectively killing your opponent in the first place.

The Renegade minor traits must piggyback off of the Invocation line in order to take effect, and it only does this so well. The third obstacle that a Valkyrie line faces is that Kalla’s Fervor only reliably stacks off of critical hits, which reinforces the loop. As much as I’d like to think that the Renegade is the new DS Reaper, it just isn’t reliable enough critical hit generation to go YOLO with valkyrie gear. The minors work best when you don’t need them, except for Vigor which you always need.

Besides, I can just go Invocation + Herald and enter every fight with 30 seconds of fury on my entire team and have 95% crit chance from rolling mists. Righteous Rebel is pretty good for power builds, though.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I don’t have a dedicated WvW spec. I just bring my PVE weapons + armor, and have some ascended marauders trinkets that were easy to get. With that setup and cheap canned WvW food, I break 100% crit chance.

The best part about Brutal Momentum is the vigor. The crit chance increase seems good on paper, but in practice you’ll only have full endurance if you’re tossing hammers in ship vs. ship combat, or at the beginning of the fight. I wouldn’t expect that 30% to really be there otherwise, because again the Renegade is an ambush class with no ambush.

The synergy with Endless Enmity also comes with a highly situational activation window. You have to critical hit an enemy under 50% health. It is no use at the beginning of the fight. In the middle of the fight, you have to critical hit to get fury. For a zerker or marauder build this is a QoL trait, but running Valkyries, you encounter a big problem: in order to get fury, you need to already have fury.

This is true for Brutal Momentum as well. To get the critical hit bonus, you need critical hits to get the fury to get the vigor to get the critical hits to get the fury to get the… and the cycle continues. On a Valkyrie build the traits create a Kafkaesque loop where you need everything in order to get everything. And “everything” starts at 50% health, so you need to already be effectively killing your opponent in the first place.

The Renegade minor traits must piggyback off of the Invocation line in order to take effect, and it only does this so well. The third obstacle that a Valkyrie line faces is that Kalla’s Fervor only reliably stacks off of critical hits, which reinforces the loop. As much as I’d like to think that the Renegade is the new DS Reaper, it just isn’t reliable enough critical hit generation to go YOLO with valkyrie gear. The minors work best when you don’t need them, except for Vigor which you always need.

Besides, I can just go Invocation + Herald and enter every fight with 30 seconds of fury on my entire team and have 95% crit chance from rolling mists. Righteous Rebel is pretty good for power builds, though.

Kinda off topic, but ship vs ship?

Fractured.3928:

Kinda off topic, but ship vs ship?

When you have two groups circle each other at a distance and fire off ranged attacks, just like pirate ships or other wooden warships circling each other to get all their broadside canons facing the enemy.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493
I play a lot of Reaper in pvp and wvw. The game-play is basically stay at range, then run when you’re getting focused and pray for your life. Keep in mind, Reaper got 2 sources of stability, can kite around with #2 in RS and meat shield 2nd HP bar. I see Renegade is the same situation but they have no reliable source of stability, no movement ability, and destructible utilities. They are going to be sitting duck in pvp.

Shortbow – It’s a full offensive condition weapon with no utility
Skill #2 – i don’t understand its purpose. It’s like they just slap it in, here is SB#2. Horrible animation
Skill #3 – Very buggy. I just wish you can control where the center is
Skill #4 – Remind me of DH LB#4 pretty useless – add pulse Breakrazor’s Bastion (-33% condition damage) while you or your allies are in radius
Skill #5 – Remind me of Mes GS#5- pretty good skill overall. Please make it into a skillshot like DH LB#3

I would love if they redesign SB#2 into a movement skill – 600 range dash, 2 ammos, shoot out 3 projectiles at the end of the dash, and inflict 2 stack of bleeds. Swap this skill with SB#3. I say this because i noticed similarity in design between classes.

For example:
Warrior- GS#2 is a damage ability, GS#3 is a movement/evade ability.
Ranger- SB#2 is a damage ability, SB#3 is a movement/evade ability. Revenant- Hammer#2 is damage ability, Hammer #3 is a evade ability.
Mesmer- Sword#2 is a damage/evade ability, Sword#3 is a movement skill.
Guardian- GS#2 is damage ability, GS#3 is a 600 range movement ability.
Thief- SB#2 is damage ability, SB#3 is a backward movement/evade ability

WHY THIS DESIGN DOESN’T APPLY TO RENEGADE’S SHORTBOW????

+1d. As much as I was willing to give Renegade a chance going into the beta weekend you are completely and totally correct in pretty much every facet of your argument.

There’s so many things about renegade that COULD be good and just fall completely short, which makes me more than a little salty.

The best part is that Kalla’s fervor is going to single handedly make renegade the optimal for rev for raids. So it won’t change gameplay at all really, you are just forced to take the traitline to passively do a bit more damage.

The cutest part was Irenio bragging about how that awful reverse shotgun skill on shortbow encourages ranged play without stopping for a moment to think that ranged play has no place in PvE BECAUSE they haven’t fixed boon stacking to work outside melee range.

These skills also mean many more skills foiled by terrain just like how hammer 2 and 3 still don’t work on anything but perfectly flat terrain or unrelenting assault bugging out constantly.

I tested that shortbow, and the skills were just garbage. Low damage, and to boot more positional encouragements that make no sense on a class as immobile as revenant.

I’ll use the shortbow only because condi rev has no other choice for ranged options when forced off boss, but it’s such a horrendously bad weapon right now. Nowhere close to the power level of hammer, which feels like a really solid ranged weapon.

I also hate endurance based bonuses minor traits. You are effectively punished in damage output for dodging correctly.

Just make it a 7-10% damage increase against foes afflicted with bleeding/torment or when at max Kalla’s Fervor stacks.

So we have a shortbow, it has 4 damage skills that do barely any damage. Either make it rain death or make it a utility weapon, but right now it doesn’t contribute to anything and the only reason to use it would be because you can’t get in close range. I’m sure hammer does even more damage even with a condi build because it actually has decent base damage, and it has 300 more range.

Idk why they made it a damage weapon anyway. Because it’s ranged it’s theoretically going to be weaker than mace, or at least if it’s balanced. This means it doesn’t really serve a purpose. Make it a utility, cc, or movement weapon or something that would fill some of the many cracks rev has. Also it would make a hell of a lot more sense if it applied torment and chill, seeing as these are the classes core conditions and torment on a ranged weapon is way better.

The worst part is they made Kalla revolve all around bleeding instead of torment in traits, which means mace/axe condi builds will derive marginal benefit from the traits themselves since that weapon combo does no bleeding.

The traits should include torment in their boosts to accommodate mace/axe in condi builds.

I do doubt the usefulness of the shortbow as a condi weapon. The mace/axe combo is a melee set in technicality. In practice, it is quite good at ranged engagements. Searing Fissure controls space, Echoing Eruption and Temporal Rift hit from a long distance, Unyielding Anguish can move surprisingly fast and has massive utility. In WvW I can already dish out quite the damage in skirmishes without having to belly up to auto attack.

I mean, lets compare two skills. Sevenshot and Echoing Eruption. All impracticality aside, Sevenshot will inflict 21 base torment ticks every six seconds. I’m going to put this down as 3.5 ticks per second. Echoing Eruption inflicts 50 base torment ticks every 8 seconds (assuming you don’t hit twice), coming to 6.25 ticks per second. This gives Echoing Eruption 79% more torment. Lets sum it up all together:

Echoing Eruption
Pro: Blast Finisher.
Pro: Hits a large area at greater range
Pro: Does 78% more condi damage
Pro: Is a movement skill
Pro: Lower energy cost.
Pro: Allows multiple off-hand weapons
Pro: Can hit the same target twice
Con: The movement can be uncontrollable at times

Sevenshot
Pro: Does 57% more direct damage
Pro: Combo Finisher (20%)
Con: Only works at exact distance
Con: Doesn’t scale with enemies
Con: Easily body blocked.
Con: Higher energy cost
Con: On the shortbow.

So, why would I even bother with the shorbow?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Sevenshot
Pro: Does 57% more direct damage
Pro: Combo Finisher (20%)
Con: Only works at exact distance
Con: Doesn’t scale with enemies
Con: Easily body blocked.
Con: Higher energy cost
Con: On the shortbow.

So, why would I even bother with the shorbow?

Some other Major Cons for Sevenshot:
- You have to back up to make all all of it hit (on small hitbox) thus putting the target out of range of Embrace the Darkness or Hammer pulses.
- Echoing Eruption Torment has a base duration of 10 seconds, Seven Shot’s Torment has a base duration of 3 seconds… The different becoming even greater the more expertise you build.

this thread needs to get bump all the way to the CEO of anet.

as it is now, you’d take renegade solely for Fervor and play exactly like you were before, horrible outlook for a new sub-class.

this and Soulbeast, laziest implementation in an expansion class, ever. Ideas are OK but execution is absolutely depressing.

Street Peddler.2638:

as it is now, you’d take renegade solely for Fervor and play exactly like you were before, horrible outlook for a new sub-class.

Except without F2 skill, since now it costs too much compared to Herald’s

I like the analysis. I had an idea regarding the utility skills and their ability to be killed. I understand the devs maybe want some counterplay to it (if it was something to worry about lel) but why not instead of giving it a health bar give it a break bar? they wouldnt die instantly vs aoe and enemies would have to use cc to kill them, which they then wont be using on you.
Good idea or short sighted?

the counterplay would have been “get out of the aoe”, like it has always been with Wells.

In theory you balance the summons by making them stronger than the average well. In practice, they didn’t do this. Instead, we get two skills that act like offensive wells, and the other three act as very odd buffs that require teammates to be any good, and each one is generally unfulfilling.

The energy costs definitely hold them back. If you could drop both Icerazor and Darkrazor in an area, you would get solid combination of disables and damage that would make for good point control. Problem is, both skills cost a total of 70 energy to use. You simply can’t layer them up. Of course, Necromancers and Chronomancers don’t have a problem layering their wells. Hell, I’ve been hit by double gravity several times in WvW.

Individually they’re weaker than wells, they have a destructible component on top of their effects, and because of energy costs they’re also mutually exclusive with each other. You can only use the best PVP combo after 4 seconds of combat while using no energy for other skills.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

In theory you balance the summons by making them stronger than the average well. In practice, they didn’t do this. Instead, we get two skills that act like offensive wells, and the other three act as very odd buffs that require teammates to be any good, and each one is generally unfulfilling.

The energy costs definitely hold them back. If you could drop both Icerazor and Darkrazor in an area, you would get solid combination of disables and damage that would make for good point control. Problem is, both skills cost a total of 70 energy to use. You simply can’t layer them up. Of course, Necromancers and Chronomancers don’t have a problem layering their wells. Hell, I’ve been hit by double gravity several times in WvW.

Individually they’re weaker than wells, they have a destructible component on top of their effects, and because of energy costs they’re also mutually exclusive with each other. You can only use the best PVP combo after 4 seconds of combat while using no energy for other skills.

Yes, that’s the main reson why Kalla is useless in any game format.
On top of that you also have very costly F-skills and everything has cooldown for some reason, like you could spam those skills if there was no cooldown.

No change in the energy costs at least in today’s 2-hour PvE stress test…

Sylvyn.4750:

No change in the energy costs at least in today’s 2-hour PvE stress test…

If you think that a build from a month before release is anything but release candidate, you are hopelessly naive.

They don’t make changes to release builds one month before release.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Everything with Breakrazor can go wrong, and there is no grand reward for things going right.

Remove “with Breakrazor” and you basically have a tl;dr description of Revenant and Renegade in PoF.

Zenith.7301:

If you think that a build from a month before release is anything but release candidate, you are hopelessly naive.

You’re right, but at this point I expect them to only change numbers, that won’t solve much since Kalla doesn’t appeal by any point of view. It’s a failure even if they make it strong.

They should have started gaining community feedback long ago.

Zenith.7301:

Sylvyn.4750:

No change in the energy costs at least in today’s 2-hour PvE stress test…

If you think that a build from a month before release is anything but release candidate, you are hopelessly naive.

They don’t make changes to release builds one month before release.

that’s strange, because I’m pretty sure there was a dev post saying that there were going to be number tweaks and bugfixes, but unfortunately they weren’t going to be in the stress test

now where could I have got that idea?

Zenith.7301:

Sylvyn.4750:

No change in the energy costs at least in today’s 2-hour PvE stress test…

If you think that a build from a month before release is anything but release candidate, you are hopelessly naive.

They don’t make changes to release builds one month before release.

Note: I’m not happy with Revenant, or POF in general, its just mount gimmicks, and elite specs. Nothing really special or unique being added.

However, GW2 release has been extremely different from the tests players get beforehand. I don’t know why, but it is always significantly and clearly better. I remember this for both GW2 launch, and HoT launch. So I’ll give them that.

With that said, since Revenant hasn’t been touched this entire time, I doubt it will be changed now, besides maybe a bug fix. Definitely not the rework that is required.

I think they had a good starting idea of what the class should be, but before they finished the idea they had to start making it. Then they just never finished the idea so we have a class based on nothing but “invoking legends” with no real clear goal in mind.
It’s like playing ele with nothing but conjured weapons. You basically summon a conjured weapon (or swap legends) and just use one skill.

If you follow the lore of the legend, the idea behind the class is to use hit and run tactics to build energy, then use the utilities and f skills to unload a lot of damage and control a lot of space. Basically, play like a WvW thief. Unfortunately, the class has no skills that enable hit and run tactics, so the way it actually plays is as slow moving prey.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

If you follow the lore of the legend, the idea behind the class is to use hit and run tactics to build energy, then use the utilities and f skills to unload a lot of damage and control a lot of space. Basically, play like a WvW thief. Unfortunately, the class has no skills that enable hit and run tactics, so the way it actually plays is as slow moving prey.

the lore of the legend is to surprise your enemies and buff your allies

the buff i can get with the elite skill and maybe f2 and healing skill
the surprise part i dont get it at all. no stealth, no evades, no blind, no teleport and no sustain at all.
so basically you saying to your enemy " hey i coming . i need to build nrg so dont attack me. when i have 100% i will buff my allies so please dont attack my spirit as they cost too much and please please dont move from the area of effect so you could take all the dmg. thanks renegade "

Shouldn’t the class have a “summon spec” traitline? Like one that gives all the utilities basic buffs like Stability, protection, etc. so that they’re more survivable? Another that makes it so that instead of just having a pulsing field, they can also target up to five characters within their radius when they are cast, and then “lock on” to those targets, pulsing out their effects even if those targets leave the field? Stuff like that sounds like a good idea for making them more useful.

The word “lore” you’ve been using is kinda strange. By lore Kalla should have a Greatsword. By lore Revenant should channel legends and become them, not summon.

Kalla’s statue has a greastword, but is there evidence that she didn’t also use a bow? She was the granddaughter of Pyre Fierceshot. And as for “becoming” vs. “summoning,” the Revenant is “becoming” Kalla, wielder of the bow, but her legend was as a great leader of warriors, and because of that, her powerset is based on summoning those soldiers into action. She’s like Alexander the Great in Fate/Zero.

Calcifire.1864:

Zenith.7301:

Sylvyn.4750:

No change in the energy costs at least in today’s 2-hour PvE stress test…

If you think that a build from a month before release is anything but release candidate, you are hopelessly naive.

They don’t make changes to release builds one month before release.

that’s strange, because I’m pretty sure there was a dev post saying that there were going to be number tweaks and bugfixes, but unfortunately they weren’t going to be in the stress test

now where could I have got that idea?

“number tweaks and bugfixes” sadly they dont matter at all, renejoke is a failed concept and you will never take Kalla to pvp/wvw in current state.

Chiming in to say that I absolutely agree with the op, think he nailed it basically, I might also add that I think number 5 on shortbow should be a skillshot (similar to dh longbow 3), number 4 should be castable while looking away from your opponent (it should just turn you around automatically like ranger longbow 5). Number 3 is a cute idea but it’s waaaay too weak. it’s borderline impossible to land it in pvp and even if you manage to do so it’s way too unrewarding.

Kidel.2057:

The word “lore” you’ve been using is kinda strange. By lore Kalla should have a Greatsword. By lore Revenant should channel legends and become them, not summon.

I wish people would stop complaining about not getting Greatsword and worry about the real problems with Renegade.

Every time I see a post about Greatswords or a lack of underwater legend access I die a little inside because I just know that A.net will be like, “Oh hey, people want this!” And then give us that instead of cleanse or something that leads to a desired role in raids or a heal that doesn’t rely on fail play from your opponents in PvP or something else that we actually need.

I feel like this is probably what happened with Renegade in the first place, A.net saw a bunch of forum warriors QQ’ing about not having a ranged condi weapon (something that we didn’t even need and doesn’t even fit with the rest of our kit) and decided that it would be the feature they’d implement to save their revenant community and bolster expansion sales.

Look, we get it, you’re finally the 75 millionth person to get their Eternity and want to use it on every character you have… That’s cool, but can’t you just get your fix on your guardian, reaper, or op wvw zerker?

flyingfox.6150:

this and Soulbeast, laziest implementation in an expansion class, ever. Ideas are OK but execution is absolutely depressing.

Soulbeast? Soulbeast is amazing, adds so much complexity if you use it correctly and swap in and out of beastmode, and it is actually useful in pvp… would never put soulbeast and renegade in the same box

narcx.3570:

I feel like this is probably what happened with Renegade in the first place, A.net saw a bunch of forum warriors QQ’ing about not having a ranged condi weapon (something that we didn’t even need and doesn’t even fit with the rest of our kit) and decided that it would be the feature they’d implement to save their revenant community and bolster expansion sales.

Let me start saying that I have Eternity (in a DH which doesn’t uses it) and still I was all about getting a ranged condi weapon, and if ANet ask me “which weapon you want in the next expec?” I will shout “A CONDI PISTOL!” Now, let me explain why:

Since the murdering of Phase Traversal and Unwavering Avoidance both the power Rev and the condi Rev are utterly overshadowed in duels/roaming by the stealth/reset condi meta: you can’t chase foes because you need to preserve energy for your breakstuns, cleanses and ofensive skills (in that order) so after a few seconds you can’t barely move and you end destroyed by ranged attacks/condi pressure. This is mitigated in PvP to some extent because you at least can defend a point for a while, but when theresn’t a control point to fight for the disengage tools + range/condi pressure from other classes gets the Revenant demolished. Hammer is a one trick pony weapon which kills you once a fight goes to mele.

So, the expectations were to have a ranged hybrid weapon able to do condition pressure and maybe to have some helpful tools, which finally happens that the short bow isn’t. Id doesn’t synergizes with Corruption, it doesn’t plays well in uneven terrain, id doesn’t provides the damage numbers to pressure our foes or the utilities to keep us alive. I expected the Renegade to be a PvP focused spec, and my predictions failed spectacularly; you wanted a fix for the current Revenant state in PvE raids and that also didn’t happened. Congrats: both were fooled.

And now let me say that ultimately I talk with money: before the betas I was guessing about purchasing either the basic expansion or the ultimate one. This morning my pocket talked volumes and I spent 29,99 € in the basic expansion. Could have been 80 € due the bargain in the gems was appealing, but since the Revenant specialization happens to be almost useless to solve the problems I have in the game modes I play I saw no compeling reason to spent extra money in this dissapointing class spec.

narcx.3570:

I feel like this is probably what happened with Renegade in the first place, A.net saw a bunch of forum warriors QQ’ing about not having a ranged condi weapon (something that we didn’t even need and doesn’t even fit with the rest of our kit) and decided that it would be the feature they’d implement to save their revenant community and bolster expansion sales.

We wanted a core ranged condi wep. Not something locked behind e-spec. And shortbow sux anyway, it has 0 defensive tools with 900 range. Wish they used my concept for rifle which i made over a year ago.

1. Sphere of Anguish – Fire a shoot towards your target. Inflict increasing durations of torment, the farther away that your foe is from you.

-Damage; 135 (0.45)
-Torment:
800+ range – 5sec
400-800 range – 4sec
0-400 range – 3sec
-Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile 20%
-3/4 sec cast time
-Number of targets; 1

2. Venomous Spheres – Fire three poisoned spheres towards your foe.

-Damage (x3): 70 (0.20)
-Poison: 3x, 5 sec duration
-Cd; 4
-Cast time: 1sec
-Pierces
-Number of targets: 5
-Energy cost: 5
-Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile

3. Frigid Sphere – Fire a frigid sphere towards your foe deflecting projectiles on it way and chilling opponents as it pass through.

-Damage: 165 (0.5)
-Chill: 2 seconds
-Radius: 120
-Cd: 8
-Cast time: 1/4
-Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
-Pierces
-Number of targets: 5
-Energy cost: 5

4. Igniting Sphere – Ignite target area, burning nearby foes.

-Damage (x4): 125 (0.4)
-Burning: 2x, 2sec
-Radius: 240
-Cd; 12
-Cast time: 3/4
-Combo Field: Fire
-Duration; 3 seconds
-Pulses: 4
-Ground targeted
-Number of targets: 5
-Energy cost: 10

5. Diabolic Eruption – Blast the ground, damaging and immobilizing your foes. Upon blasting shadowstep backward.

-Damage: 335 (1.0)
-Immobilize: 2sec
-Cast time: 1/2
-Cd: 15sec
-Number of targets: 5
-Shadowstep range: 600
-Energy cost: 15
-Combo Finisher: Blast

Burtnik.5218:

narcx.3570:

I feel like this is probably what happened with Renegade in the first place, A.net saw a bunch of forum warriors QQ’ing about not having a ranged condi weapon (something that we didn’t even need and doesn’t even fit with the rest of our kit) and decided that it would be the feature they’d implement to save their revenant community and bolster expansion sales.

We wanted a core ranged condi wep. Not something locked behind e-spec. And shortbow sux anyway, it has 0 defensive tools with 900 range. Wish they used my concept for rifle which i made over a year ago.

1. Sphere of Anguish – Fire a shoot towards your target. Inflict increasing durations of torment, the farther away that your foe is from you.

-Damage; 135 (0.45)
-Torment:
800+ range – 5sec
400-800 range – 4sec
0-400 range – 3sec
-Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile 20%
-3/4 sec cast time
-Number of targets; 1

2. Venomous Spheres – Fire three poisoned spheres towards your foe.

-Damage (x3): 70 (0.20)
-Poison: 3x, 5 sec duration
-Cd; 4
-Cast time: 1sec
-Pierces
-Number of targets: 5
-Energy cost: 5
-Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile

3. Frigid Sphere – Fire a frigid sphere towards your foe deflecting projectiles on it way and chilling opponents as it pass through.

-Damage: 165 (0.5)
-Chill: 2 seconds
-Radius: 120
-Cd: 8
-Cast time: 1/4
-Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
-Pierces
-Number of targets: 5
-Energy cost: 5

4. Igniting Sphere – Ignite target area, burning nearby foes.

-Damage (x4): 125 (0.4)
-Burning: 2x, 2sec
-Radius: 240
-Cd; 12
-Cast time: 3/4
-Combo Field: Fire
-Duration; 3 seconds
-Pulses: 4
-Ground targeted
-Number of targets: 5
-Energy cost: 10

5. Diabolic Eruption – Blast the ground, damaging and immobilizing your foes. Upon blasting shadowstep backward.

-Damage: 335 (1.0)
-Immobilize: 2sec
-Cast time: 1/2
-Cd: 15sec
-Number of targets: 5
-Shadowstep range: 600
-Energy cost: 15
-Combo Finisher: Blast

Unique ideas, neat synergy, overall pretty good.
Maybe tweak the cd’s a bit…but sadly it is way too late for major changes.
I doubt even tweaks will happen. Maybe in a year and onward.

Burtnik.5218:

We wanted a core ranged condi wep. Not something locked behind e-spec. And shortbow sux anyway, it has 0 defensive tools with 900 range. Wish they used my concept for rifle which i made over a year ago.

While having chill/torment/immob are infinitely better than what short bow brings, and it’s a neat idea how your rifle synergies play style with the Trident kit to a degree, it’s still nothing Rev’s need.

Literally EVERYTHING else you do in terms of DPS or Utility (except tablet shenanigans), you’re required to be in melee range. Which is exactly why the last thing we needed was a ranged condi-weapon… Nothing in our condi kit synergies with kiting your opponent, or ranged combat play, and if all you need are condi-pokes for dueling and fighting off harassment on point in sPvP you already have Mace 2/3, Axe 5, Elemental Blast, and Banish Enchantment spam.

I suppose it’d be useful in the current condi-spam-from-range-and epidemic zerg WvW meta, but Revs already excel to the point of being required in this game mode for Resistance botting.