Guild Wars 2

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

Something would be great ahah
At least to make powerbuilds viable on pve.

There is Jalis, Ventari, and Staff.

All of which are not optimal for max dps. I don’t think there is a single other class that has to sacrifice damage for a condi cleanse. Unlike other classes, Rev doesn’t have the ability to freely choose its heals and utilities. You are stuck with an entire legend and all of its utilities, whether you want them or not.

Kidel.2057:

Pugs are not always what you may want.

Some self condi cleanse should be viable even without Jalis.
I hardly imagine myself doing some fractals without self cleanse.

Yeah griffith, but this means that shiro+glint is not a viable combination unless you equip staff just for cleanse, reducing your dps a lot compared to sword, or giving up to ranged option.

I get that condis are revenant’s weak point, but we should at least be able to use powerbuilds without exploding for burninf in CoF.

I mean I agree ,but it won’t surprise me one bit if that’s the choice we have to make. Look at Guardians they’ve had to play this game without a good/fun ranged option since launch scepter is literal crap.

First of all the changes were really good, I’m glad you have implemented so many changes already, thx Roy!

Perhaps you didn’t have the time to tone everything yet but I have a few more suggestions anyway:

Hammer
There was a tweak to a cast time here to help with the flow of the weapon. The after-cast on Field of the Mists was actually much higher than one second so this should make it feel much better.

The hammer 5 is really slow, it should be like engineer’s Orbital Strike(3/4 sec cast time but the hit is delayed after the cast has finished)
Edit: Hammer 4 could use some sort of secondary effect that help against melees like some slow on cast or anything really.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Legendary Assassin Stance
This stance had a lot of positive response, but based on feedback I felt as if we could really improve the feel and flow of this stance. A big one was allowing Phase Traversal to work like other teleports so it still would go up to the 1200 distance if used on a target further away then that.

• Phase Traversal: This skill can now be used on a target out of range to close the distance similar to how Infiltrator’s Signet on thief works.

This feels too mobile because it is a repeatable skill: if you have 50 energy and you use it 3 times in a row travels you 3600 distance straight away(some energy regens during the time). I feel like it was in a good place before the change.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Devastation
There was a bug fix here and the redesign of a trait. Increased attack speed bonuses felt lackluster when you have access to Impossible Odds, which grants quickness. The increased attack speed values did not stack so I felt as if it was a good place to add in a damage multiplier that would also help out sword’s damage.

• Rapid Laceration: This trait has been changed to Vicious Lacerations. This trait will now increase damage by 2% per stack while attacking with a sword equipped. This stacks up to a maximum of five times.

To clarify, does the trait now give both damage and speed increase?
Do attack speed bonuses stack now? If not, why is it a problem to stack a little over quickness speed?

Legendary Mallyx Stance:

• Unyielding Anguish is still too powerful for decapping capture points, ignoring stability, ressing teammates, and keeping away melees while you attack them from range, all this on a 100% uptime. I think it would be fair to limit it with some CD and let people with stability pass through it. The problem is not solely that it is too strong but it encourages passive gameplay at the same time. (spamm of unyielding anguish and autattacks from range) On the other hand the skill has no effect when there is nowhere to teleport foes so they can just stay inside maybe change it simply to launch?

• Pain Absorption: allows for 100% resistance uptime coupled with the resistance trait while even having some excess energy for skills. Also some CD added would feel right.

Staff

• The autoattack #3 generates healing orbs. However, these are barely visible especially during fights with all the clutter going on. I’d change its models to the ventari healing orbs or make the staff attack heal right off the bat.

Thanks for all your work, revenant is really fun already!

P.S. How soon is soon?

Kidel.2057:

Pugs are not always what you may want.

Some self condi cleanse should be viable even without Jalis.
I hardly imagine myself doing some fractals without self cleanse.

Yeah griffith, but this means that shiro+glint is not a viable combination unless you equip staff just for cleanse, reducing your dps a lot compared to sword, or giving up to ranged option.

I get that condis are revenant’s weak point, but we should at least be able to use powerbuilds without exploding for burninf in CoF.

The meta for pugs will more than likely be S/S+Staff, Ventari/Glint with Devastation, Invocation and Herald, you have condi cleanse on Ventari. If you need range you’ll just have to switch staff for Hammer, that change to rapid lacerations just made S/S AA camping even more mandatory for DPS than it already was.

Unless the “Challenging Group Content” Goes Wildstar 40 man raid level Shield and more defensive/tanky setups won’t be used, and the active combat still has a lot of room to grow in the defensive department while keeping power and critical chance/damage still being the supreme stat combo for PvE, condition management isn’t that much of a problem now that you can choose what fractal you’ll run, as you can just run overkill heals with ventari and top support with glind, sacrifice personal DPS and switch Invocation for Salvation and get more heals and condi cleanse.

xarallei.4279:

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

Something would be great ahah
At least to make powerbuilds viable on pve.

There is Jalis, Ventari, and Staff.

All of which are not optimal for max dps. I don’t think there is a single other class that has to sacrifice damage for a condi cleanse. Unlike other classes, Rev doesn’t have the ability to freely choose its heals and utilities. You are stuck with an entire legend and all of its utilities, whether you want them or not.

+1 this

xarallei.4279:

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

Something would be great ahah
At least to make powerbuilds viable on pve.

There is Jalis, Ventari, and Staff.

All of which are not optimal for max dps. I don’t think there is a single other class that has to sacrifice damage for a condi cleanse. Unlike other classes, Rev doesn’t have the ability to freely choose its heals and utilities. You are stuck with an entire legend and all of its utilities, whether you want them or not.

The problem is that we are already teetering on the edge of being completely overpowered. I mean no other class can cast a 5 man 3 sec stun essentially every 10 sec. The Rev kit and design is going to be incredibly hard to balance so if they give us too much condi cleanse or even a little more then we have now we will literally be a jack of all trades. Currently that is the only thing the class doesn’t have in abundance we have Defense, Offense, Support, and some of the best Boon Application of any class in the game thanks to Glint.

Thorquist.8126:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

It was too punishing to be locked into a skill where you had no control over your character.

Rangers with sword say ‘hi’.

I’m glad you managed to respond with snark. Everything I came up with was coated in disbelief and frustration.

xarallei.4279:

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

Something would be great ahah
At least to make powerbuilds viable on pve.

There is Jalis, Ventari, and Staff.

All of which are not optimal for max dps. I don’t think there is a single other class that has to sacrifice damage for a condi cleanse. Unlike other classes, Rev doesn’t have the ability to freely choose its heals and utilities. You are stuck with an entire legend and all of its utilities, whether you want them or not.

Sure there is. Check the meta dungeon builds on mettabattle. Almost none of them have any condition cleanse in order to max out DPS.

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

Woah! You just massively increased the evade frames of the revenant, that’s a huge increase in survivability. With that said, Unrelenting Assault may be a little too strong if it actually hits really hard as there are very few ways to counter it now (against a single target specially).

Other than that, awesome changes, I’m looking forward to try them out.

The forethought and diversity between builds was already so minuscule. I really don’t understand what they’re thinking this profession’s suppose to turn into. I can’t say I give a crap about Revenant anymore. The builds just create themselves and the play styles it forces are boring and thoughtless.

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

Because this is the design. This is both the downside and the advantage at the same time. This is what makes Revs so versatile it allows them to fill multiple roles at once: Support/Damage , Support/Condi, Damage/Tank, Tank/Condi, Damage/Condi hybrid. If you aren’t willing to sacrifice some customization for the added benefit of being versatile this class isn’t for you.

Only thing I don’t like about jalis is that taunt is still 50 energy. The rest of them is good.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

We do not asking for xxxxxxxxxxx condi cleanse.. But a bit of love in this category would be nice.. Nothing crazy, but current condition damage (burns) will eat us alive. That will force every revenant to use Mallyx with demonic defiance as second legend choice in pvp. Also i still dont understand why you didnt made bolstered anguish to increase our condi damage instead. Atm that trait makes little sense considering where it is placed. If it was in devastation line at least..

Kicker.8203:

This feels too mobile because it is a repeatable skill: if you have 50 energy and you use it 3 times in a row travels you 3600 distance straight away(some energy regens during the time). I feel like it was in a good place before the change.

I have to disagree. First i dont think you can target someone from that range. Second you lose the whole energy just for this as swap will get cd ooc.. Third it was not possible to engage someone before. Four anyone with a teleport could run away from you without any problems and you wasnt able to catch them up. If you think it was fine then it should be applied to all teleports right now ingame.

Also as i was noticed..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Great-Synergy/first#post5382714

I dont think this trait should apply to Glint heal at all. +i still would like to know if green numbers pop up on enemy screen when we have this healing part active

Rygg.6237:

The meta for pugs will more than likely be S/S+Staff, Ventari/Glint with Devastation, Invocation and Herald, you have condi cleanse on Ventari. If you need range you’ll just have to switch staff for Hammer, that change to rapid lacerations just made S/S AA camping even more mandatory for DPS than it already was.

I think you mean Shiro/Mallyx Sword/Axe Staff Devastation Invocation Herald.

Shiro and Mallyx legends offer the highest dps increases within the current meta and the boons that Glint offers are okay, but other classes give them out too. You still get the F2 for taking Herald. Axe offhand because it has quite a high damage modifier on 4, though I dont know how much use this skill will get.

Camping AA may not be likely either with UA having quite high damage (does more than the auto)

Typical rotation will likely be Upkeep Skill, UA, Auto. Legend swap, repeat. Activating Facet of nature basically off CD.

Vicious lacerations wont be taken, the AoE ferocity trait will. Its ~5% damage increase for your whole party at 100% crit chance iirc. Better than a personal 10.

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

I’m not seeing it.

If damage is really all your concerned about you’re probably going to be alternating Mallyx and Shiro on CD for maximum up-time on their upkeep skills.

Nothing is stopping you from using other legends, but… if your goal is as one-dimensional as “Max DPS” there is generally going to be one single best solution.

My feedback of the changes that concerns me

Staff
finally making Staff 2 useful,THANKS!!
Staff 4 also an Blast Finisher, nice.
Staff 5 making an evade, i don’t think this was necessary as you anyway push back anything in your way, but i don’t complain.

Yet i would still like a change to the orbs of Staff 1. Maybe making them moving slowly to an close ally? or flat an AOE heal……

Jalis
Change on Heal and Elite, good.
Change on the whirling hammers very nice
Change on the Road…..gone over the top. buff the Duration of stability at least to 3sec. CD and Energy cost increase is okay, but then make it at least pulling off quicker.
The taunt chain, lacks usefulness. to expensive, not worth it

Retribution
no change of traits at all?……

Honestly something that needs to be noticed here is that Glint is SO freaking good that unless forced out of the Legend to heal you really won’t need to switch often. You won’t be burning through energy all that quick due to the fact that all skills are Upkeep none of which are really necessary to keep up the whole time. You get a Stun Break, Blind, Regen, Protection, Swiftness, Aoe Knockdown, The largest heal of all the Rev heals, Reveal. Throw on the shield to compliment all that and Legend Swapping will be a thing of the past.

Recursivision.2367:

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

I’m not seeing it.

If damage is really all your concerned about you’re probably going to be alternating Mallyx and Shiro on CD for maximum up-time on their upkeep skills.

Nothing is stopping you from using other legends, but… if your goal is as one-dimensional as “Max DPS” there is generally going to be one single best solution.

That’s exactly the probelm. The build just makes itself. I can never hope to take Jalis or Ventari and expect to put out nearly as much DPS. I am forced into something and that’s the death of this class for me. Hopefully Druid won’t be as brain dead.

Hammerguard.9834:

Recursivision.2367:

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

I’m not seeing it.

If damage is really all your concerned about you’re probably going to be alternating Mallyx and Shiro on CD for maximum up-time on their upkeep skills.

Nothing is stopping you from using other legends, but… if your goal is as one-dimensional as “Max DPS” there is generally going to be one single best solution.

That’s exactly the probelm. The build just makes itself. I can never hope to take Jalis or Ventari and expect to put out nearly as much DPS. I am forced into something and that’s the death of this class for me. Hopefully Druid won’t be as brain dead.

Nope it will be cause just like every other class in this game and every class in every MMO on the market there is an optimal build for w/e content you are doing and its only one link away (metabattle.com). Perhaps you should try League of Legends were build diversity goes a long way.

Wasted chance for the first aoe resistance in the game
Could be traded with that aoe protection on healing skill that basically kills Glint’s heal.

Rygg.6237:

The meta for pugs will more than likely be S/S+Staff, Ventari/Glint with Devastation, Invocation and Herald, you have condi cleanse on Ventari. If you need range you’ll just have to switch staff for Hammer, that change to rapid lacerations just made S/S AA camping even more mandatory for DPS than it already was.

Unless the “Challenging Group Content” Goes Wildstar 40 man raid level Shield and more defensive/tanky setups won’t be used, and the active combat still has a lot of room to grow in the defensive department while keeping power and critical chance/damage still being the supreme stat combo for PvE, condition management isn’t that much of a problem now that you can choose what fractal you’ll run, as you can just run overkill heals with ventari and top support with glind, sacrifice personal DPS and switch Invocation for Salvation and get more heals and condi cleanse.

I assume you are taking Ventari for Condi cleanses and projectile control. That’s fine, but I believe Shiro will probably be preferred given that condi cleanse and projectile control are already part of most meta compositions. The healing itself is not too meaningful because most groups have some sort of self-sustain.

Don’t get me wrong, Ventari is excellent for certain encounters (Lupicus, certain fractals like Volcano and Asura where projectiles are a considerable threat), but I don’t think it will be the preferred meta build due to Shiro’s easy access to quickness being far superior to most encounters thanks to them being so short.

But yes, overall Staff will be picked over Hammer for PvE dungeons and fractals due to the melee nature of most fights. Staff 4 being a blast finisher now gives it extra synergy with classes and allows a Sword/X Power Revenant to keep blast finishers on weapon swap at melee range (without going to condi mace).

I like shield well enough and it probably fills the role of Ventari better in terms of cost/benefit. 5 is extremely situational in PvE but thanks to the little CCs in PvE encounters (in base GW2) it could be used for stuff like protecting a downed ally. Axe is the better power off-hand but Shield is fine for the support is offers with 4.

So do the new vengeful hammers stack with protection? If so I think that might want to be looked at, because with that combo a rev can have 53% dmg reduction for quite a bit of time.

Zafken.1708:

So do the new vengeful hammers stack with protection? If so I think that might want to be looked at, because with that combo a rev can have 53% dmg reduction for quite a bit of time.

That’s a really good question LOL. Though I wouldn’t say its for “quite” a bit of time Jalis doesn’t have access to Protection and you could only get it through Facet of Nature for like 5 seconds if using Glint.

If you have another rev using the glint elite, its quite a bit of time.

Zafken.1708:

If you have another rev using the glint elite, its quite a bit of time.

I meant as an individual ,but yes with allies giving you Protection.

The sword changes gave me a nerdgasm.

I think the cooldowns on legend swap are too high. It may match elementalist but they have 4 attunements to switch through while rev only has 2. I think it would be great to have 3 legends using f1-3. 3 instead of the 4 eles get because we have weapon swap. Though perhaps if we got 4 legends maybe we wouldn’t need the weapon swap.

Disappointed energy costs were not really touched. Some extra energy on auto attack would be great. Could just be on the final hit of the chain.

Griffith.7238:

Hammerguard.9834:

Recursivision.2367:

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

I’m not seeing it.

If damage is really all your concerned about you’re probably going to be alternating Mallyx and Shiro on CD for maximum up-time on their upkeep skills.

Nothing is stopping you from using other legends, but… if your goal is as one-dimensional as “Max DPS” there is generally going to be one single best solution.

That’s exactly the probelm. The build just makes itself. I can never hope to take Jalis or Ventari and expect to put out nearly as much DPS. I am forced into something and that’s the death of this class for me. Hopefully Druid won’t be as brain dead.

Nope it will be cause just like every other class in this game and every class in every MMO on the market there is an optimal build for w/e content you are doing and its only one link away (metabattle.com). Perhaps you should try League of Legends were build diversity goes a long way.

Unlike the Revenant every other profession has multiple useful builds for different aspects of the game. Yes, there is a meta but that doesn’t mean there are 2 or 3 other builds that can compete. In the case of Revenant, there will only be a meta build because everything about the class is so overly defined. There is no secret combination that can produce similar results. It’s all out there for the player to simply use rather than create. This will probably be the most boring class I’ve ever play, in any game.

Yeah, its not a solo thing, I was thinking in regards to possible “challenging group content”. Because all of that and the new shield stuff makes me think they are trying to push a full tank archtype.

Griffith.7238:

Zafken.1708:

If you have another rev using the glint elite, its quite a bit of time.

I meant as an individual ,but yes with allies giving you Protection.

Stacking protection with f2 and the boon duration from the elite upkeep could probably stack quite a bit too.

mexay.3902:

Rygg.6237:

The meta for pugs will more than likely be S/S+Staff, Ventari/Glint with Devastation, Invocation and Herald, you have condi cleanse on Ventari. If you need range you’ll just have to switch staff for Hammer, that change to rapid lacerations just made S/S AA camping even more mandatory for DPS than it already was.

I think you mean Shiro/Mallyx Sword/Axe Staff Devastation Invocation Herald.

Shiro and Mallyx legends offer the highest dps increases within the current meta and the boons that Glint offers are okay, but other classes give them out too. You still get the F2 for taking Herald. Axe offhand because it has quite a high damage modifier on 4, though I dont know how much use this skill will get.

Camping AA may not be likely either with UA having quite high damage (does more than the auto)

Typical rotation will likely be Upkeep Skill, UA, Auto. Legend swap, repeat. Activating Facet of nature basically off CD.

Vicious lacerations wont be taken, the AoE ferocity trait will. Its ~5% damage increase for your whole party at 100% crit chance iirc. Better than a personal 10.

Rechecked and you just need 1 Sword for Vicious Lacerations to work, still the OH Sword will be better than Axe because of the Block in some fights, but yeah Axe OH is better I agree with you there.

However in PuG situations you can’t rely on other professions to stack might (I’ve seen Eles that do not know how to do it, and if there’s no PS warrior you’re on your own), so it’s mandatory to use glint, also the protection uptime is almost as good as a guardian camping Hammer auto.

Unrelenting Assault is a loss in DPS since 1) it’s not up 100% of the time, however it’ll provde nice burst and some might 2) you can’t cancel the channel 3) it has a built in evade now which kind of lets you have an oh kitten button if needed be 4) it’s not usable in all situations, as it hits various targets and not just only 1, Vicious Lacerations was changed to deal 2% extra DAMAGE per stack (10% total) instead of critical chance, your party will more than likely also run zerker+power/precision food, using facet of darkness is more useful than running assassin’s presence since you give high fury uptime and if the party already is at 80% crit chance it’s an overall DPS loss if you minimize your potential DPS.

Malyx utilities aren’t good for PvE as they’re focused in “managing” conditions and it’s not that effective, since you can’t spam much conditions asides torment and burning on elite (if traited). Unyielding Anguish will get you hate if you use it since you can kick a boss out of AoE and deny potential DPS, and the skills don’t have effects overall desired or sought in group content that exists at least up to date.

Also hurling a Dragon at your foes after pulsing protection > turning into an 8 eyed useless demon

Hammerguard.9834:

Griffith.7238:

Hammerguard.9834:

Recursivision.2367:

Hammerguard.9834:

I’m not a fan of the Jalis changes. Why are the legends becoming so much more niche? Like Jalis will in no circumstances ever be used for damage now. Players are going to camp on a their desired stances even more now cause each legend is only capable of doing one thing. Ventari was already in this position and now Jalis is right there with him. This is horrible for the class.

I’m not seeing it.

If damage is really all your concerned about you’re probably going to be alternating Mallyx and Shiro on CD for maximum up-time on their upkeep skills.

Nothing is stopping you from using other legends, but… if your goal is as one-dimensional as “Max DPS” there is generally going to be one single best solution.

That’s exactly the probelm. The build just makes itself. I can never hope to take Jalis or Ventari and expect to put out nearly as much DPS. I am forced into something and that’s the death of this class for me. Hopefully Druid won’t be as brain dead.

Nope it will be cause just like every other class in this game and every class in every MMO on the market there is an optimal build for w/e content you are doing and its only one link away (metabattle.com). Perhaps you should try League of Legends were build diversity goes a long way.

Unlike the Revenant every other profession has multiple useful builds for different aspects of the game. Yes, there is a meta but that doesn’t mean there are 2 or 3 other builds that can compete. In the case of Revenant, there will only be a meta build because everything about the class is so overly defined. There is no secret combination that can produce similar results. It’s all out there for the player to simply use rather than create. This will probably be the most boring class I’ve ever play.

This is not true at all. I’ve already got multiple builds in mind for various types of content. Sword/Axe/Staff, Sword/Axe/Hammer, Sword/Sword/Staff, Sword/Sword/Hammer, Glint/Jalis, Glint/Shiro. Multiple combinations of those. Sure only one will be optimal ,but I’m willing to bet many of them will be viable.

The only aspect in which your logic makes sense is when it comes to Glint. I think Glint is so strong that you would literally be kicking yourself in the face for not using her. Her kit/traits are just insane. 400 toughness when using IO or have enemies revive your downed allies for you, 25% endur regen while using an upkeep, Stun Break yourself and all allies, 2% damage increase per boon with Facet of Nature 10% damage increase + 5 boons on 25sec cd in any Legend. Not to mention all her amazing Facet’s actives that have already been outlined multiple times. Glint is just sooo strong.

Rygg.6237:

mexay.3902:

Rygg.6237:

The meta for pugs will more than likely be S/S+Staff, Ventari/Glint with Devastation, Invocation and Herald, you have condi cleanse on Ventari. If you need range you’ll just have to switch staff for Hammer, that change to rapid lacerations just made S/S AA camping even more mandatory for DPS than it already was.

I think you mean Shiro/Mallyx Sword/Axe Staff Devastation Invocation Herald.

Shiro and Mallyx legends offer the highest dps increases within the current meta and the boons that Glint offers are okay, but other classes give them out too. You still get the F2 for taking Herald. Axe offhand because it has quite a high damage modifier on 4, though I dont know how much use this skill will get.

Camping AA may not be likely either with UA having quite high damage (does more than the auto)

Typical rotation will likely be Upkeep Skill, UA, Auto. Legend swap, repeat. Activating Facet of nature basically off CD.

Vicious lacerations wont be taken, the AoE ferocity trait will. Its ~5% damage increase for your whole party at 100% crit chance iirc. Better than a personal 10.

Rechecked and you just need 1 Sword for Vicious Lacerations to work, still the OH Sword will be better than Axe because of the Block, but yeah Axe OH is better I agree with you there.

However in PuG situations you can’t rely on other professions to stack might (I’ve seen Eles that do not know how to do it, and if there’s no PS warrior you’re on your own), so it’s mandatory to use herald, besides you’re forgetting something the only 3 traits that have damage modifiers are in Devastation, Invocation and Herald, all of those are better than Maniacal Persistence because you already have a high enough critical chance with the ammount of fury you have plus traits, gear and food, the only 2 wothwhile traits for PvE from corruption are Rampant Vex and Maniacal Persistance and that’s just if the mobs tend to move around and again damage modifiers>crit chance modifiers as you already will hit 80% crit chance and around 190-200% crit damage.

Unrelenting Assault is a loss in DPS since 1) it’s not up 100% of the time, however it’ll provde nice burst and some might 2) you can’t cancel the channel 3) it has a built in evade now which kind of lets you have an oh kitten button if needed be 4) it’s not usable in all situations, as it hits various targets and not just only 1, Vicious Lacerations was changed to deal 2% extra DAMAGE per stack (10% total) instead of critical chance, your party will more than likely also run zerker+power/precision food, using facet of darkness is more useful than running assassin’s presence since you give high fury uptime and if the party already is at 80% crit chance it’s an overall DPS loss if you minimize your potential DPS.

Malyx utilities aren’t good for PvE as they’re focused in “managing” conditions and it’s not that effective, maybe it’ll be more effective with the trait that gives Resistance+Facet of Nature, Unyielding Anguish will get you hate if you use it and the skills don’t have effects that are overall desired in group content that exists at least up to date.

If you run Corruption instead of Invocation you’ll be losing personal might and fury uptime, plus you have 1 damage modifiers while under the effects of fury on Invocation: ferocious agression, and roiling mists gets you to 70% crit chance alone if you have base 50% crit chance and fury. Besides equilibrium works as a sort of subpar healing signet since most of the time you’ll be jumping around 40-60% energy.

Mallyx elite give you a 15% boost to all stats, and pain absorption is awesome group condi management. That’s pretty darn good for pve.

You know they could literally blow us away in 2 weeks with this new Group Content. Going 5 zerkers might not be optimal for that stuff. I know we all have our doubts but give them a chance.

Okay, quick write-up:

1. I’m still waiting for returning of my Healing Orbs from Invocation minors, Roy.

2. I’m not sure if the nerf to IReinforcement isn’t too big. I think 2 or 3s Stability per pulse would’ve been just fine.

3. Forced Engagement – This skill has too high cost for it’s value in Taunt. Still.

4. The thing I don’t realrely want to be changed now, but I’m still curious about – Wouldn’t Glint’s heal make more sense on Jalis? I mean, it’s a heal about tanking damage.

5. Pain Absorbtion – this could be a stunbreak.

6. As much as I like the idea of profession weaknesses, I think that you’re limiting Condition removal a little bit too much, especially with such risky legend as Mallyx.

7. I still think that each Legend should have 6 utility skills instead of 5, so one regular utility can be changed.

8. Does that Protection Master trait from Herald’s spec work on every use of Ventari Tablet? Does it apply Protection at the start of the cast or at the end?

9. Stability Grandmaster doesn’t seem GM-worthy.

10. As I suggested before, could Ventari’s Protective Solace apply 1s Knockdown on cancelling the upkeep? This way it could’ve been useful against non-projectile foes.

11. As I suggested before, remove Knockback from Ventari Elite, please. It doesn’t work right with Momentary Pacification. Give it some other effect.

12. Natural Harmony could spawn 1-2s Water Field for more synergy with Staff and Blast Finishers now.

13. As I suggested before, could you make spawned Fragments and Healing Orbs more visible to allies, possibly with clear “+” indicator?

14. Tablet should be instant cast, move faster and spawn on entering Ventari.

15. Make #5 on Staff a Skillshot. It works fine, but saving allies would be easier with aimed skillshot when you choose the direction.

16. As my last point, may I give you something for consideration? I’ll quote myself:

Rym.1469:

Energy system is legit.

If anything, some Energy gain could be bound with Healing skills, as most of them pretty much reflect good play of each Stance.

I.e.:

1. Mallyx heal could give 5 energy per condition (promotes self-conditions, gives more energy for more Resistance).

2. Shiro heal could restore 10 energy with each Dagger proc (synergy with Odds)

3. Jalis heal… Jalis heal will probably get some reworks, but I’d like to see maybe Energy gain based on that “tankiness” like more Energy the moar damage you take over some period.

4. Ventari – I’d say it would be the best Legend for that. Energy gain when your Tablet passes an ally. (More Energy in group situations, promotes good play)

5. Glint heal – Yet to see, but I imagine something could be done.

Most of these are accompanied with hefty cooldown on healing skill or involve skillshot. Good timing on heals could delay Legend swapping for Energy boost. Wrong timing could give you barely any Energy.

Fill up Jalis and Glint if you like, you get the idea. I believe if we are to get some bonus Energy gain, it should be via good play.

If you want to keep Energy as it is, it’s totally fine, too. I thought that it could’ve been just the middle ground.

Thanks for all the work, Roy! Hope to play Revenant soon.

Cheers,
Rym

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

There was a time when warrior was designed to be weak to condis. As a result, warrior was the dud class until cleansing ire was added.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

Besides conditions, what other weaknesses do you expect there to be, Roy?

I’d argue boon removal will be a pretty significant weakness, especially to glint. CC might still sort of be a weakness depending on the build.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Sword
You gave us a lot of good feedback about the experience with sword, but there were some concerns that the damage, while good, felt a bit under-tuned. We boosted some of the damage values across the skills. The recharge felt a bit long on the off-hand skills so we reduced them a bit. As with Surge of the Mists, we made Unrelenting Assault evade for its duration. It was too punishing to be locked into a skill where you had no control over your character.

• Preparation Thrust: Increased the damage by 6%.
• Brutal Blade: Increased the damage by 5%.
• Rift Slash: Increased the initial strike damage by 11%.
• Precision Strike: Increased the chill from 1 second to 2 seconds and increased the damage by 34%.
• Unrelenting Assault: Increased the damage by 30%. This skill will now evade while your character is preforming this attack.
• Duelist’s Preparation: Fixed an issue causing this skill to not block for the intended duration. Decreased the recharge from 15 seconds to 12 seconds.
• Grasping Shadow: Decreased the recharge from 20 seconds to 15 seconds and increased the damage by 75%.

Yay, finally it sounds like burst damage. Will test it.
But will Unrelenting Assault still deal nearly no damage if there are people sticking close together? Please tell me you have a solution for that!

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Hammer
There was a tweak to a cast time here to help with the flow of the weapon. The after-cast on Field of the Mists was actually much higher than one second so this should make it feel much better.

• Field of the Mists. Reduced the cast time from 1 second to 0.75 second.
• Phase Smash: This skill will now evade while your character is preforming this attack.

Please add an option on Phase Smash to not teleport back!

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Corruption
This trait was just too weak for what it was doing as a grandmaster trait. It should be more on par with other grandmaster traits now.

• Maniacal Persistence: Increased the critical-hit chance per pulse from 2% to 10%.

Finally sounds like a grandmaster, nice!

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Invocation
In this specialization line Invigorating Flow wasn’t working properly. Now that it does, the self-healing is quite visible. Similar to Maniacal Persistence, the Rolling Mists trait was just too weak as a conditional 10% critical chance increase so I increased it a bit.

• Invigorating Flow: Fixed an issue with this trait so it will properly trigger from energy spending skills.
• Rolling Mists: Increased the effectiveness increase from 50% to 100% to provide an extra 20% critical-hit chance while under the effects of fury.

Great

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Legendary Dwarf Stance
Similar to staff having one outlier skill, so did this stance. Vengeful Hammers was in an odd place. It was mostly a skill used for added damage instead of fitting the theme of being more centered around being a tanky brawler. The skill has been redesigned with a new focus around survivability and being in the thick of a fight which should better fit this stance. Inspiring Reinforcement got reduced a bit because the potential uptime of stability was just too high when comparing to other stability skills; it could be kept up permanently. Besides that, I tweaked some of the other skills to make them feel better.

• Inspiring Reinforcement: Decreased the stability per pulse from 6 seconds to 1 second. Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds and its energy cost from 25 to 30.
• Vengeful Hammers: This skill has had a bit of a re-design. Decreased the damage done by 70%. The hammers will now heal you for a small amount when they hit a foe. While Vengeful Hammers is active you will take 20% decreased physical and condition damage. It also is now instant cast and lowered the from 180 to 120.
• Soothing Stone: Increased the base heal by 20%.
• Rite of the Great Dwarf: Reduced the cast time from 2.75 seconds to 1.25 seconds

Wait.. did i just read that you total nerfed Inspiring Reinforcement?
I already wasn’t sure about that skill, but more because it only grants stability after the “road” is completed.
So if a warrior jumps at you you can’t just cast that spell to get stability instantly to conter his earthshaker.
Also compared to warrior/guard/ele skills that grand 5-10 stacks of stability… this doesn’t sound fair to me. at least a duration of 2-3 seconds should be in

The decreased cast time of Rite of the Great Dwarf was really needed. 5sec of protection for nearly 3 seconds of that protection was really crappy.

“Theme of being more centered around being a tanky brawler” – The Hammer doesn’t seem to be a tanky weapon yet ;P

Other open questions:
Will the revenant get a skill pool per legendary? There aren’t that much possibilities of build variety yet.
Only one ranged weapon? Not even a second one with mid range skills? :/

Recursivision.2367:

Rygg.6237:

mexay.3902:

Rygg.6237:

The meta for pugs will more than likely be S/S+Staff, Ventari/Glint with Devastation, Invocation and Herald, you have condi cleanse on Ventari. If you need range you’ll just have to switch staff for Hammer, that change to rapid lacerations just made S/S AA camping even more mandatory for DPS than it already was.

I think you mean Shiro/Mallyx Sword/Axe Staff Devastation Invocation Herald.

Shiro and Mallyx legends offer the highest dps increases within the current meta and the boons that Glint offers are okay, but other classes give them out too. You still get the F2 for taking Herald. Axe offhand because it has quite a high damage modifier on 4, though I dont know how much use this skill will get.

Camping AA may not be likely either with UA having quite high damage (does more than the auto)

Typical rotation will likely be Upkeep Skill, UA, Auto. Legend swap, repeat. Activating Facet of nature basically off CD.

Vicious lacerations wont be taken, the AoE ferocity trait will. Its ~5% damage increase for your whole party at 100% crit chance iirc. Better than a personal 10.

Rechecked and you just need 1 Sword for Vicious Lacerations to work, still the OH Sword will be better than Axe because of the Block, but yeah Axe OH is better I agree with you there.

However in PuG situations you can’t rely on other professions to stack might (I’ve seen Eles that do not know how to do it, and if there’s no PS warrior you’re on your own), so it’s mandatory to use herald, besides you’re forgetting something the only 3 traits that have damage modifiers are in Devastation, Invocation and Herald, all of those are better than Maniacal Persistence because you already have a high enough critical chance with the ammount of fury you have plus traits, gear and food, the only 2 wothwhile traits for PvE from corruption are Rampant Vex and Maniacal Persistance and that’s just if the mobs tend to move around and again damage modifiers>crit chance modifiers as you already will hit 80% crit chance and around 190-200% crit damage.

Unrelenting Assault is a loss in DPS since 1) it’s not up 100% of the time, however it’ll provde nice burst and some might 2) you can’t cancel the channel 3) it has a built in evade now which kind of lets you have an oh kitten button if needed be 4) it’s not usable in all situations, as it hits various targets and not just only 1, Vicious Lacerations was changed to deal 2% extra DAMAGE per stack (10% total) instead of critical chance, your party will more than likely also run zerker+power/precision food, using facet of darkness is more useful than running assassin’s presence since you give high fury uptime and if the party already is at 80% crit chance it’s an overall DPS loss if you minimize your potential DPS.

Malyx utilities aren’t good for PvE as they’re focused in “managing” conditions and it’s not that effective, maybe it’ll be more effective with the trait that gives Resistance+Facet of Nature, Unyielding Anguish will get you hate if you use it and the skills don’t have effects that are overall desired in group content that exists at least up to date.

If you run Corruption instead of Invocation you’ll be losing personal might and fury uptime, plus you have 1 damage modifiers while under the effects of fury on Invocation: ferocious agression, and roiling mists gets you to 70% crit chance alone if you have base 50% crit chance and fury. Besides equilibrium works as a sort of subpar healing signet since most of the time you’ll be jumping around 40-60% energy.

Mallyx elite give you a 15% boost to all stats, and pain absorption is awesome group condi management. That’s pretty darn good for pve.

Basically this. You’re taking mallyx for the statboost. Power, prec, ferocity all up by 15%

Its like an extra free 10 might at 2000 power, which is far less than full zerk.

I agree that Glint could have a place. It’s situational kind of like PS on warrior.

Stacking ele? Full deeps
Pleb ele? PS

Ventari is only gonna be useful if there’s no Guard or Mes for projectile hate, but lets be honest, there is always guards.

Vicious lacerations is PERSONAL damage. The aoe ferocity is PARTY damage. The best meta comps make use of party dps. Everyone gives up something for the group – see PS Warrior.

UA is a GAIN if its coef is higher than the same amount of autoattacks in the time it fires off, which now I’m fairly sure it is, or it’s at least VERY close and the might gain is likely worth the loss.

We’re also talking PvE here so dps only really matters when we’re talking bosses, one target. Trash melts in seconds anyway. This is a very simplified statement but basically trash would see Autos in place of UA.

I never said to take Corruption. You DO know you can take legends without the trait lines… Right?

I think you’re getting a little confused with some of this or you arent talking dungeons/fractals here.

Also sorry for hijacking your quote Recursivision. I’m on my phone and cbf going through all the nonsense to properly quote atm.

The changes to staff were brilliant… also… the evadessssssssssssssssssssss <333333

Can we haz play Revenant nao?

mexay.3902:

Basically this. You’re taking mallyx for the statboost. Power, prec, ferocity all up by 15%

Its like an extra free 10 might at 2000 power, which is far less than full zerk.

I agree that Glint could have a place. It’s situational kind of like PS on warrior.

Stacking ele? Full deeps
Pleb ele? PS

Ventari is only gonna be useful if there’s no Guard or Mes for projectile hate, but lets be honest, there is always guards.

Vicious lacerations is PERSONAL damage. The aoe ferocity is PARTY damage. The best meta comps make use of party dps. Everyone gives up something for the group – see PS Warrior.

UA is a GAIN if its coef is higher than the same amount of autoattacks in the time it fires off, which now I’m fairly sure it is, or it’s at least VERY close and the might gain is likely worth the loss.

We’re also talking PvE here so dps only really matters when we’re talking bosses, one target. Trash melts in seconds anyway. This is a very simplified statement but basically trash would see Autos in place of UA.

I never said to take Corruption. You DO know you can take legends without the trait lines… Right?

I think you’re getting a little confused with some of this or you arent talking dungeons/fractals here.

Also sorry for hijacking your quote Recursivision. I’m on my phone and cbf going through all the nonsense to properly quote atm.

I edited the post because somehow I thought you said to run Corruption instead of Invocation while taking Malyx and I misunderstood Vicious Laceration requirements (thought it needed both swords equipped), I still think that glint is better than shiro/malyx for pugs, since you can work like a PS warrior, either shiro/malyx depending on what does more damage with glint, I didn’t remember that Malyx elite boosted all stats by 15% so yeah I agree with you there it’s more than likely that you’ll run Shiro/Malyx in organized groups as there’s gonna be other might and fury sources, also Impossible Odds can pulse partywide might if you pick the might on boon application from herald.

Ah fair enough man. I do agree Glint is good if you lack a might but as you said organizdd groups will do better with Mallyx.

Im just happy to see how well herald rounds out the class.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Legendary Dwarf Stance
Inspiring Reinforcement got reduced a bit because the potential uptime of stability was just too high when comparing to other stability skills; it could be kept up permanently.

• Inspiring Reinforcement: Decreased the stability per pulse from 6 seconds to 1 second. Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds and its energy cost from 25 to 30.

This is not a wise choice. I agree that it is possible to keep stability uptime too high compared to other skills, but it is also dependent on remaining in a locked location which is very vulnerable to AoE boon rips; with the addition that you have to wait for the road to actually finish paving before it pulses the stability. Hence it requires a lot of active thought in order to properly use the skill. I would likely keep the cooldown changes of the skill at 10 seconds if anything, along with the increased energy cost. Stability is important.

Reducing the duration from 6 seconds to 1 second is WAY too much of a change to implement. I would make this a much more incremental process in determining how long this buff should be, not take it from 6 seconds to 1. Not only does it give you stability specifically for the duration of the road’s application, but the moment the road is gone all of your stability goes with it.

As a heavy class, CC skills should not be something that Revenant is heavily vulnerable to (at least for one channeling Jalis) but with this kind of a change Jalis loses a lot of his viability and makes Revenant as a heavy class overall seem like a lackluster joke.

Considering the amount of CC that is used in the metagame, and how many CC’s are available to each class, this makes Revenants the equivalent of a Heavy-Class ping-pong ball.

10s cooldown with 30 energy cost is enough of a change. It would likely be best to wait until the next beta weekend to make judgments on the duration.

Mallyx corruption with herald’s facet of nature to boost your resistance up to 3-7s depend on the skills you use. But you’ll lack stun breaks and stability so you’re limited to Jalis/Shiro or invigoration/retribution….man there isn’t much options.

mexay.3902:

Ah fair enough man. I do agree Glint is good if you lack a might but as you said organizdd groups will do better with Mallyx.

Im just happy to see how well herald rounds out the class.

Yeah the traits and facet of Nature are just so amazingly good that it’s almost a blind pick.

i’m starting to think that the Revenant idea was based off Herald being an idea for an e-spec for warrior (Rytlock originally was a warrior and then switched to revenant) and it ended up in a new profession being brought to the game.

I still like more hurling a dragon at your enemy than using an 8 eye demon for attacking though.

Also we should make a golden staff for Roy & his team, Revenant’s Staff is one of the most perfectly balanced weapons in the whole game, decent damage modifiers, good utility and great synergy with almost everything the profession can do.

Really nice changes, really really looking forward to test all that!

A tiny bit concerned about inspiring reinforcement but the other changes seems to make up for it (at least for me) and I really like the enchanted daggers tweak and UA (OMG)!!!

Also commenting on the class changes:

Excellent changes all round Roy. Particularly Jalis and the Mist skills.

The only real changes I feel are needed is Forced Engagement. The cost is still far too high. Dropping it down to 30 – 40 would be better. Maybe even nerf the skil to 1s Slow and Taunt and halve the cost. It keeps the same level of balance but its easier to get that initial cast.

I feel Inspiring Reinforcement is fine but it needs a faster cast so the stab procs quicker. Unlocking it from the front of the caster would be good too.

The change to Rite of the Great Dwarf is fantastic and better than I could have hoped for. This is awesome.

Similarly Vengeful Hammers is great. The damage reduction, heals and condi reduction should really help the class with survival. Jalis is all round in a much much better place.

I feel Staff 5 needs the same functionality ad Whirlwing Attack on the Warrior Greatsword. Currently it can be a little clunky to pull off.

I still feel Enchanted Daggers need the ICD removed, but I can see why you dont want the ability to do 6k damage in a very short burst with no real cost. I think increasing the base heal but lowering lifesteal and ICD would be a healthier move for Shiro. Say move 50% off to the base heal so its around 4.5k (iirc) base and an added 3k if you pull off the rest.

All round Revenant is looking better and better. Its starting to almost feel like a community class since so much input has been taken on board.

Rygg.6237:

Also we should make a golden staff for Roy & his team, Revenant’s Staff is one of the most perfectly balanced weapons in the whole game, decent damage modifiers, good utility and great synergy with almost everything the profession can do.

It really is. I’m loving the staff. The blast on 4 is great, the daze, the evade on 5, the damage increase it got last patch, the whole weapon is great. Only thing I’d change is the heal orbs as they’re a little random, but if anything the weapon is great

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Kidel.2057:

Since so many are asking for condi cleanse I’m sure it will be considered. Shiro+Glint has none.

Revenant as a whole is designed to not have much condition cleanse. That’s not to say there won’t be any tweaks for removal, but it won’t be any large changes. can’t have everything.

Aren’t condi cleanses the reason why condis bypass armor, aren’t reduced by protection and so on?

so hammer skill #1 is still that slow ?