Revenant trait rework suggestions
Retribution
Minors:
- Enduring recovery: great.
- Unwavering Avoidance: good.
- Determined Resolution: underwelming. Fix: Damage reduced by 33% when under 50% health.
Majors:
Adept
- Dome of Mists: needs an added affect. Fix: Inflicting weakness also causes slow on ememies.
- Close Quarters: good. Maybe bump it up to 15%
- Improved Aggression: very bad. Fix: merge with Eye for an eye.
- New Adept: When you successfully evade an attack cast a Destructive Hammer. (10 second duration, 30 second icd, same hammer as Reflexive Summon, seperate icds though)
Master
- Eye for an Eye: descent but underpowered. fix merged with Improved Aggression 50% increase duration on players, 100% on npcs.
- Retaliatory Evasion: not good. Fix: merged with Empowering Vengeance
- Redeeming Protection: 2 on disabled traits no thanks. Fix: Gain protection when critically hit, 3 second duration, icd 10 seconds.
Grandmaster
- Empowering Vengeance: very little retaliation application unless traited. Fix: merge with Retaliatory Evasion
- Reflexive Summon: good but could be better. Fix: Summoned hammers now inflict cripple for 4 seconds, 10 second icd. (includes Vengeful hammers now)
- Steadfast Rejuvenation: Gain health regeneration while using an upkeep skill, Healing: 150 + (0.04*healing power).
- New Grandmaster: Using a Legendary Dwarf Stance skill grants Retaliation (10 seconds) and protection (5 seconds). (20 second icd to prevent perma protection)
Edit: Reflexive Summon now inflicts cripple instead of weakness thanks to Adrian Guardian.
(edited by Lyrsen.6702)
Salvation
Minors:
- Disarming Riposte: icd should be reduced. Fix: icd lowered to 8 seconds, blind duration lowered to 3 seconds.
- Hardened Foundation: should be the other way around. Fix: Gain healing power based on your toughness and increase outgoing healing to allies by 10% (outgoing percentile does not affect you)
- Serene Rejuvination: since you get extra healing from Hardened Foundation lets make it better Fix: When you blind a foe grant Area of Effect regeneration (4 seconds) to all allies in a 360 radius (4 second icd)
Majors:
Adept
- Nourishing Roots: really bad. Fix: move to grandmaster, Using Energy Expultion creates a water field for 8 seconds, pluses every 2 seconds, heals 500 + (0.5*healing power) every pulse.
- Blinding Truths: it’s pretty good. Fix: increase radius to 360
- Tranquil Balance: While above the energy threshold remove a condition every 10 seconds. While below the energy threshold remove a condition from allies every 10 seconds (240 radius 5 targets, you included)
Master
- Tranquil Benediction: While above the energy threshold gain regeneration (10 seconds), combat only. while below the energy treshhold gain vigor (5 seconds) (15 second seperate icd for both)
- Eluding Nulification: great trait. Increase radius to 360 though.
- Invoking Harmony: too much healing increase and very small sources of healing. Fix: Invoking a legend creates a wave of healing centered on you healing 700 + (0.75*healing power) in a 240 radius.
Grandmaster
- Selfless Amplification: Keep it as is, works well with other revamped traits.
- Natural Abundance: lots of healing already needs swiftness. Fix: move to adept tier, Gain swiftness (5 seconds) when ever you execute a finisher.
- Momentary Pacification: fix the bug and we’re all good.
(edited by Lyrsen.6702)
Invocation
Minors:
- Swirling Mists: meh. Fix: energy costs of legend skills is reduced by 5.
- Revitalising Breath: even more meh. Fix: when you break a stun gain 15% of your energy.
- Empty Vessel: very much needed, no change.
Majors:
Adept
- Cruel Repercussion: when one of your attacks is negated gain 10% energy (block and Invulnerability only)
- Cleansing Channel: lots of ways to deal with conditions now. Fix: rename to Focused Upkeep, upkeep skills use one less pip of energy de-gen (ex. from -7 to -6)
- Fierce Infusion: Fury traits are in the corruption line now. Fix: When you critically hit a foe gain 5% energy.
Master
- Equilibrium: While above the energy threshold gain offensive stats (90 power, precision, ferocity, condition damage) while below the energy threshold gain defensive stats (120 toughness, vitality, healing power)
- Invigorating Flow: works pretty well now that we have a bit of energy management.
- Incensed Response: When you use a skill to go below the energy threshold your attacks are unblock-able for 6 seconds. (30 second icd)
Grandmaster
- Rolling Mists: Moved to Corruption GM
- Charged Mists: When you go above the energy threshold (by being below it first) you gain a damaging area of effect around you for 10 seconds, it is attached to you like the Field of the Mists.) (Damage 350 per second, radius 240, 40 second icd.)
- Shrouding Mists: when you use a skill that moves you through the mists you become invulnerable for 4 seconds (60 second icd, has an icon when it’s off cd that only you can see. Applies to: Surge of the Mists, Phase Smash, and Frigid Blitz)
- new grandmaster: Energizing Mists: Max energy is now 150% and threshold is at 75%, gain a damage bonus based on how much energy you have above 30%: 5% increase, above 70%: 10% increase and above 120%: 20% increase (bonuses do not stack with each other)
(edited by Lyrsen.6702)
really cool ideas.
Brent.1580really cool ideas.
Thanks! Hopefully a dev reads this and likes it too.
I like those ideas. Adds a lot more oomph to the Rev and dixes all those Meh traits. Would love to see those at least tried ingame instead of the status quo.
I think Eye for an Eye is already good and strong, needs no buffing or change. The point of the trait is to stop the enemy from chaining CC on you, which it manages to do.
Reflexive Summon is decent already, though adding ‘: Summoned hammers now inflict cripple for 3 seconds, 10 second icd. (includes Vengeful hammers now)’ would be cool (but requires that the other 2 grandmaster traits are strong, which yours are. Note my switch of weakness for cripple, since I think that’s more needed whereas weakness the revenant already has good access to.
I agree with having a lot of fury traits in Corruption – fits with the crits focus of the line and lets you use the line without running a condi dmg build.
Your solution for the invocation [edit: I mean salvation] grandmasters just trade one problem (2 traits which are both about maxing healing) for another (your suggestions gives 2 traits which are both about using your elite).
(edited by Adrian Guardian.9480)
I’d wait for Shiro trait line before making a thread so detailed.
Fury will probably go into that instead of Corruption as you want.
(edited by Neeja.4579)
Adrian Guardian.9480I think Eye for an Eye is already good and strong, needs no buffing or change. The point of the trait is to stop the enemy from chaining CC on you, which it manages to do.
Reflexive Summon is decent already, though adding ‘: Summoned hammers now inflict cripple for 3 seconds, 10 second icd. (includes Vengeful hammers now)’ would be cool (but requires that the other 2 grandmaster traits are strong, which yours are. Note my switch of weakness for cripple, since I think that’s more needed whereas weakness the revenant already has good access to.
I agree with having a lot of fury traits in Corruption – fits with the crits focus of the line and lets you use the line without running a condi dmg build.
Your solution for the invocation grandmasters just trade one problem (2 traits which are both about maxing healing) for another (your suggestions gives 2 traits which are both about using your elite).
First of all thank you very much for the feedback! the reason Eye for an Eye was merged with Improved Aggression was so you would not have to take two major traits that both revolve around taunt as the current traits for other professions are generally like that now. I can see where you’re coming from though, the 20% damage reduction here may need to be removed or lowered but should include the duration increase (50% players and 100% npcs) on the trait.
Dang I wish I had thought of the cripple, that’s a freaking awesome idea! Will change in the post.
In invocation line, salvation line or Corruption line? the invocation line has no on elite use. I’ll guess you meant salvation, Momentary Pacification after the bug fix will work with all elite skills meaning you don’t have to take Ventari as a legend to Daze. The other one does a pretty powerful heal and is a water field in which it fits very much with Ventari for healing.
My goal for this trait/specialization revamp was to make it easier to use any trait line for the traits and not pick the legends based on the traits while still making them relevant with the intended legend.
Edited for grammar.
(edited by Lyrsen.6702)
Neeja.4579I’d wait for Shiro trait line before making a thread so detailed.
Fury will probably go into that instead of Corruption as you want.
Thanks for the feedback! Fury is in the Invocation line as per the weekend testing.
Adept Fierce Infusion: gain fury on heal
Master Incensed Response: gain fury when you break out of a stun.
(edited by Lyrsen.6702)
Retribution
Redeeming Protection and Improved Aggression need to be merged.
Reflexive Summon need to grant Protection.
Retaliatory Evasion- need to be removed. We need less reasons to be hit by damage, not more..
Determined Resolution – need to be increased to 25% damage reduction.
Salvation
Tranquil Benediction – need to reduce Energy Cost of Staff by half while increasing toughness while wielding staff.
Invoking Harmony- need to be merged into Serene Rejuvenation. Or revamped to Root nearby enemies on Legend Swap and Increase Energy on Swap.
Nourishing Roots – removed and made baseline.
Invocation
Swirling Mists- Increase number of swirls.
Fierce Infusion- add Protection to this.
Equilibrium- along with currently works, should always heal the Revenant a fraction of their max health.
Incensed Response merge with Empty Vessel.
Roiling Mists- along with current effect, add a On Crit effect to this trait.
Shrouding Mists – Damage reduction need to scale. Below 50% = 10% Damage Reduction, and 25% energy or below = 25% damage reduction. Along with the healing element.
Over-all an improvement from the test weekend, I just have a few questions.
Knighthonor.4061Retribution
Redeeming Protection and Improved Aggression need to be merged.
Why merge a taunt trait and a protection trait? It seems a bit weird to me. Yes they both give some damage reduction but Improved Aggression only works when you have a taunt on them. A foe will not disable you when they’re disabled themselves (except for on disable traits).
Reflexive Summon need to grant Protection.
I’m guessing there is limited protection for a reason hence why there is not much in my trait revamp either.
Retaliatory Evasion- need to be removed. We need less reasons to be hit by damage, not more.
You will get hit though, you’ll dodge most of the high damage stuff and get hit by the small damage right? this trait is pretty good not because it encourages you to get hit, it’s just a bit of extra damage for the follow up attacks after you dodge and have run out of endurance.
Determined Resolution – need to be increased to 25% damage reduction.
25% or 33% when under 50% health both numbers are solid. Testing will figure out if one is better than the other in terms of balance.
Salvation
Tranquil Benediction – need to reduce Energy Cost of Staff by half while increasing toughness while wielding staff.
Rather than reduce energy costs, how about 20% reduced cooldowns on staff. Staff 5 has a horrendous 20 second cooldown (pretty much the best skill on the three weapon sets we could use imo). Increased toughness works well especially with melee fighting.
Invoking Harmony- need to be merged into Serene Rejuvenation. Or revamped to Root nearby enemies on Legend Swap and Increase Energy on Swap.
I’m on the boat of more healing abilities rather than more healing modifiers.
Nourishing Roots – removed and made baseline.
Would be awesome!
Invocation
Swirling Mists- Increase number of swirls.
Honestly I didn’t even see this trait working on the weekend.
Fierce Infusion- add Protection to this.
As stated earlier I’m guessing there is limited protection for a reason hence why there is not much in my trait revamp either.
Equilibrium- along with currently works, should always heal the Revenant a fraction of their max health.
Healing more when under the 50% energy threshold and Damage with a small heal above the threshold would be a nice QoL improvement.
Incensed Response merge with Empty Vessel.
I really think fury should go in the corruption line; Shiro’s specilization may prove me wrong though.
Roiling Mists- along with current effect, add a On Crit effect to this trait.
Hrmm, what could we add and not make it overpowered? This trait is really good by itself I think, 50% critical chance with just fury on you.
Shrouding Mists – Damage reduction need to scale. Below 50% = 10% Damage Reduction, and 25% energy or below = 25% damage reduction. Along with the healing element.
This one I disagree with, you should be rewarded for managing energy well not using it all up.
Retribution
Redeeming Protection and Improved Aggression need to be merged.
Why merge a taunt trait and a protection trait? It seems a bit weird to me. Yes they both give some damage reduction but Improved Aggression only works when you have a taunt on them. A foe will not disable you when they’re disabled themselves (except for on disable traits).
Because it makes the most sense to get a increase damage reduction if you forcing something to attack you. You prepare for the attack, when you taunt somebody. Added damage reduction from Protection makes the most sense when taunting, or CCed.
Reflexive Summon need to grant Protection.
I’m guessing there is limited protection for a reason hence why there is not much in my trait revamp either.
Well this is beta, so likely their is limited protection because its a design flaw that Developers missed. Thats why we testing the class balance in beta after all.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Lets-Talk-Self-Defense/first#post5279111
As we discussed there. I will quote @Neeja.4579 here. “At the moment it’s pretty much a glass cannon with no cannon.”
Overall, the class doesnt have good damage other than Sword/Sword, and lacks Defense all around, regardless of sacrificing DPS for Defense or not.
Retaliatory Evasion- need to be removed. We need less reasons to be hit by damage, not more.
You will get hit though, you’ll dodge most of the high damage stuff and get hit by the small damage right? this trait is pretty good not because it encourages you to get hit, it’s just a bit of extra damage for the follow up attacks after you dodge and have run out of endurance.
The Extra damage is small, and not worth the damage taken in the class’ current form due to how glassy the class is. This isnt a Guardian or Warrior, this is glass cannon with no cannon. The class isnt build for taken damage in its current form. Maybe later down the road when the class is better balanced for defense, than I would agree. But as of now, no. Not in the slightest.
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Determined Resolution – need to be increased to 25% damage reduction.
25% or 33% when under 50% health both numbers are solid. Testing will figure out if one is better than the other in terms of balance.
Agreed. but 5% is far too low for a primary melee class with little avoidance and damage reduction. That doesnt flow well in SPvP.
Salvation
Tranquil Benediction – need to reduce Energy Cost of Staff by half while increasing toughness while wielding staff.
Rather than reduce energy costs, how about 20% reduced cooldowns on staff. Staff 5 has a horrendous 20 second cooldown (pretty much the best skill on the three weapon sets we could use imo). Increased toughness works well especially with melee fighting.
Right now, in its current form, the Cooldowns are not the problem. the problem is the energy cost. Staff in its current form, doesnt Heal well, and lacks damage. Only skills good on it is Staff 3 & 5. Healing orbs heal for around 280 health each. Thats nothing compared to the damage people can dish out against a Staff wielding Revenant. That and the Staff 4 heal wont save you from burst DPS in SPvP. Its Kill or be Killed, or Mitigate the damage longer than your DPS. right now, Staff does neither of those well.
Did you notice that Mace/Axe max energy consumption is 35 while Staff’s max energy consumption is 45 -to -55% Energy? Thats close to HALF the Revenant’s Energy would be taken from Staff skills. BUT WHY? Weak Heals, Weak Damage, Strong CC. thats not going to get you anywhere without a weapon swap of some kind. Again, the Cooldowns are not the problem. That 45% to 55% Max Energy cost for so little trade off is a big issue. Staff should have reduced energy cost so we have more energy for the more useful utility/Elite skills that would do most of our damage and self protection.
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Invoking Harmony- need to be merged into Serene Rejuvenation. Or revamped to Root nearby enemies on Legend Swap and Increase Energy on Swap.
I’m on the boat of more healing abilities rather than more healing modifiers.
Problem with Invoking Harmony, is that its counter-logical for somebody playing Support Revenant. Switching Legends mean you locked from Tablet for outgoing heals. Leaving only the weak procs from Swirl, and staff heals, which 20% increase for 5 seconds for those small heals wont save anybody. That need to be merged with the other outgoing +Heal percentage. No need for two traits that do the same thing, with one of them being illogical. That could be replaced with something far more useful with our limited number of traits to pick from.
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Nourishing Roots – removed and made baseline.
Would be awesome!
I believe we all can agree on this.
Invocation
Swirling Mists- Increase number of swirls.
Honestly I didn’t even see this trait working on the weekend.
Another weak heal effect that wont make Revenant’s less glassy.
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Fierce Infusion- add Protection to this.
As stated earlier I’m guessing there is limited protection for a reason hence why there is not much in my trait revamp either.
As I stated above, we are testing the class for a reason. Good chance their are unblanced elements that Developers miss, which is why they ask us to test these things out. I will quote @Neeja.4579 again. “At the moment it’s pretty much a glass cannon with no cannon. Almost squishy as a thief, but without peak damage and all the mobility/escape/blindness/invisibility”.
The class in its current form needs more damage reduction. Its a primary Melee class like Guardians and Warriors, but without the Damage reduction and self defense those classes get to counter large burst damage. With anything but Sword/Sword, you are a walking “ATTACK ME” sign. Because you have no serious SPvP DPS counter.
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Equilibrium- along with currently works, should always heal the Revenant a fraction of their max health.
Healing more when under the 50% energy threshold and Damage with a small heal above the threshold would be a nice QoL improvement.
Agreed. Especially if a Revenant decides to use Centaur legend. They will need added self healing. But over all, the class need this.
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Incensed Response merge with Empty Vessel.
I really think fury should go in the corruption line; Shiro’s specilization may prove me wrong though.
In the current form, I disagree. Revenant’s need more damage for those that dont spec into Shiro. Shiro is the DPS legend and likely have major DPS compared to the current 3 legends. The other 3 Legends and their Specializations need the DPS help. Because right now, they have very weak Self Defense and Self Healing overall. Especially if using Staff. But for this, merging both Stun Breaker traits together gives room for more useful needed elements to the Specialization.
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Roiling Mists- along with current effect, add a On Crit effect to this trait.
Hrmm, what could we add and not make it overpowered? This trait is really good by itself I think, 50% critical chance with just fury on you.
Right now, I wouldnt be worried about them being OPed. Because right now they are very under powered. On crit elements could be lots of things that would be useful. Crits with Fury could apply a condition to enemy or extend current conditions on the enemy. Or it could heal self a fraction of damage on the fury crit. Right now, anything that deals with Self Protection and Increased Damage would be welcome.
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Shrouding Mists – Damage reduction need to scale. Below 50% = 10% Damage Reduction, and 25% energy or below = 25% damage reduction. Along with the healing element.
This one I disagree with, you should be rewarded for managing energy well not using it all up.
Well with the current Energy system, its not hard to use it all up. Like I said before,
“Staff uses 45 to 55% energy max, and more Legends use way closer to 100% energy on their own. With the Lack of Weapon Damage, and lack of Damage reduction, the Revenant rely heavily on its heavy energy skills to stay alive.
Lets look at Numbers..
Demon Legend utilities alone = 90%Energy.
Centaur Legend utilities alone = 68ish% Energy.
Dwarf Legend utilities alone = 82ish%Energy.
Those are utilites alone. now add in the Elite, the Weapon skills, and Heal skills. in fast pace combat when you dont have forever to sit there and wait for Energy to fully recharge.
Swap adds 50% energy back. But again look up at the numbers… thats gone in no time with a few skills, leaving you pretty much defenseless and DPSless. GG with that. DPS rules GW2 currently. No Energy = No DPS.
No Energy = No Defense.
No DPS or Defense = elimination. point blank.
The Energy system is flawed designed as many people are pointing out. Weapons need their energy cost greatly reduced, or given more +Energy effects other than just Legend Swap.
Just to be clear Knighthonor I do agree revenant needs to be buffed by a lot in terms of damage and staying power. The traits I posted would be in after we get a damage buff, this shouldn’t be hard to do since A-net has stated numbers are the easiest and generally last to change. I also don’t want to be the super OP class for 1 week after HoT launch and then get nerfed to the ground every patch for 2.5 years, hence trying to keep it balanced. If you have not read my trait suggestions (posts 1-4) by now please read them, I’d appreciate feedback.
Improved Aggression already gives 20% damage reduction to taunted targets adding a ‘gain protection when disabled’ to the same trait makes no sense to me that’s all I was saying. I’d rather see Improved Aggression merged with Eye for an eye, as I posted above so when you get disabled you taunt them back and get 20% (may change the numbers though) damage reduction and taunt lasts 50% longer on players (100% on npcs).
Okay I didn’t test staff all that much you got me there yet this is also a numbers thing, it can be changed fairly quickly (depending on how it’s coded, hopefully they did it the way to make it easy to balance.)
Most of the rest of your points are agreeing with my traits suggested above. So we need energy management skills or traits (all 3 adept and 1 GM in invocation.) Fury in my suggestion is in the Corruption line for those on critical effects. There is a lot of conditional damage reduction in the Retribution line I’ve posted above.
Though I do have to say staying alive on a revenant was easier the more practice I had at it, eventually I ended up only dying once on Sunday with my Jalis/Mallyx, rabid/carrion, condi/power hybrid revenant in WvW using mace/axe. If you went full zerker with revenant of course you’re gonna be glass. It had no cannon for a power build since there was no direct damage specialization. That being said I’ll say again revenant needs to have it’s damage on mace/axe, staff and hammer buffed. With all the threads about it I’m pretty sure the devs got the picture. I decided to work on traits since they look like they were designed for the pre-June 23rd patch.
/end rant
TL;DR
looks like we have a similar mind-set and are just going about it in different ways, cool more ideas the better!