Guild Wars 2

I like the fact that with s/s s/sh combo we got dmg attack on 12cd 2s block on 12 cd and 3 s block with heal on 20s cd now if we want it + evade frames from shiro and another block heal if we drop sub 25%. Makes zerk rev really durable if played well.

Dreamcore.7632:

BlackDevil.9268:

Dreamcore.7632:

I feel like these changes do not address the issue Revenants have with conditions. Still no help for other legends, if you do not slot Mallyx then you just die to any condition burst.

Well.. Ventari has some nice condi removal too now and if staff 4 actually removes conditions properly you should have better condition removal than some other classes have on pretty much any build. I just wish they would make the ICD on Eluding nullification much lower (+/-2) so ventari would become more apealing to use instead of mallyx or maybe even instead of glint with more heal and condi removal support instead of boons.

Sorry I should have been a bit more clear.. this is from the perspective of a WvW roamer. Since I feel as if I cannot realistically use Ventari roaming, I am reduced to either using Mallyx and running a condi build, or running the risk of flat out losing to any condition based enemy on a power build using either Shiro/Jalis(preferred) or Shiro/Glint. The latter has literally no condi clear outside of traits and staff #4, and any runes or sigils you are using.

Why does everyone think you can’t beat condi builds without Mallyx. This is so far from true I can’t even believe it. I didn’t use Mallyx a single time in BWE2 and had great success in PvP. Shiro/Glint is excellent the fact that you all think you can’t win against a condi player without Mallyx is just ludicrous.

Embrace Darkness

I like the reduction to 7 upkeep, will see how it goes as it can allow for a high upkeep of torment.

Also thank you for clearing up there’s no cool down on unyielding assault.

Corruption Line and Torment

I feel torment will be in a good place in PvP as not being able to move is a real killer there. What I feel is the problem is the same as condi mesmer at the moment and that is mallyx only really applies confusion and torment.

I feel the minors are all great especially in a boon heavy game. Opportune Extraction should be ICD on target if not already and then it’s great for a minor.

Sure the mace can apply burn and the auto has poison but if most of the damage is from confusion and torment then they’re easily countered by smart cleansing.

Personally I would improve the other condition application that mallyx has. Increasing the stacks of burn of diabolic inferno to 2 and reducing the ICD to 5s would make it a good GM.

Pulsing Pestilence

I feel could do with a change given the change in direction of mallyx (a change I welcome btw as I feel it’s the right call) and a way to transfer conditions would be very welcome. Perhaps on use of a demon stance skill to transfer conditions to enemies affected or something would really put it in a good spot.

Purifying Essence
Any chance on removing the cool down on this? 60 total energy cost (takes 12s to regen that) is a big price to pay for a 6 condition cleanse and would severely limit what you could do afterwards.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

A few more things:

• I reduced the after-cast of unyielding anguish by 260ms so it should help the responsiveness when you land.
• Embrace the Darkness: Lowered the cast time and after-cast by 400ms and reduced it’s upkeep cost by 1 so it’s at a 7 upkeep cast right now.

I think lowering the upkeep cost was a bad idea. Before this change the only stance that could not achieve the -10 upkeep cost to fully benefit from the trait hardening persistence was the legendary dwarf stance; now there are two legends that can’t.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

A few more things:

• I reduced the after-cast of unyielding anguish by 260ms so it should help the responsiveness when you land.
• Embrace the Darkness: Lowered the cast time and after-cast by 400ms and reduced it’s upkeep cost by 1 so it’s at a 7 upkeep cast right now.

I hope that after BWE3, we can convince you to return the condition copy on EtD.

Hiki.9310:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

A few more things:

• I reduced the after-cast of unyielding anguish by 260ms so it should help the responsiveness when you land.
• Embrace the Darkness: Lowered the cast time and after-cast by 400ms and reduced it’s upkeep cost by 1 so it’s at a 7 upkeep cast right now.

I think lowering the upkeep cost was a bad idea. Before this change the only stance that could not achieve the -10 upkeep cost to fully benefit from the trait hardening persistence was the legendary dwarf stance; now there are two legends that can’t.

It’s a 40 toughness loss … cmon xD as if now EtD is an upkeep that must be held up to be useful, before just some fee secs to copy and exit wherr enougj ;-)

Well, something I’ve said earlier:

I don’t think the elite should have a lower upkeep just because it’s weaker. Elite’s are supposed to be strong, but with a high cost. If you lower the upkeep it’s just another utility skill.

I still don’t even think that it’s worth using the elite honestly unless it gives pulsing resistance or anything that makes it more worth using and is unique.

Griffith.7238:

Dreamcore.7632:

BlackDevil.9268:

Dreamcore.7632:

I feel like these changes do not address the issue Revenants have with conditions. Still no help for other legends, if you do not slot Mallyx then you just die to any condition burst.

Well.. Ventari has some nice condi removal too now and if staff 4 actually removes conditions properly you should have better condition removal than some other classes have on pretty much any build. I just wish they would make the ICD on Eluding nullification much lower (+/-2) so ventari would become more apealing to use instead of mallyx or maybe even instead of glint with more heal and condi removal support instead of boons.

Sorry I should have been a bit more clear.. this is from the perspective of a WvW roamer. Since I feel as if I cannot realistically use Ventari roaming, I am reduced to either using Mallyx and running a condi build, or running the risk of flat out losing to any condition based enemy on a power build using either Shiro/Jalis(preferred) or Shiro/Glint. The latter has literally no condi clear outside of traits and staff #4, and any runes or sigils you are using.

Why does everyone think you can’t beat condi builds without Mallyx. This is so far from true I can’t even believe it. I didn’t use Mallyx a single time in BWE2 and had great success in PvP. Shiro/Glint is excellent the fact that you all think you can’t win against a condi player without Mallyx is just ludicrous.

And Jalis as well. Jalis’ heal washes off all conditions, and his hammer skill lowers all incoming damage, including from conditions, by 20%.

Ah also do I read it right

“Embrace the Darkness now applies a lot of torment in an area, twice as much as before. I’m looking at adjusting the cast time or upkeep cost for it to make it a bit more in line with the new functionality.”

So is it like 2 stacks of torment every 1 second? That’s what I get from it seeing as it was 1 every 1 sec before with self applied torment.

If that is the case then I like the power increase and focus on torment as our go-to condition.

Also having thought a bit more about new UA i think it’s fine. Chill + Torment per pulse is actually quite nice. In previous BWE I was sometimes annoyed if I lined AoE and I or someone else would displace everything out of stacked aoe dmg :P

I also think we do need ability to stack a lot of stacks of torment (which we will have now I guess) relatively fast due to removals removing whole stack. On my Engineer I got a lot of covers due to aplying many different conditions. Rev doesn’t have this so it’s ok if he can stack a lot of it quite fast because it is also easily removed.

With the change to Shared Empowerment it’s very easy to reach permanent 25 stacks o might with no rune of strength. 18 to the group, 25 on self.

The only problem with Mallyx is that it still requires Corruption. It can’t be swapped in without it’s corresponding trait line, like Ventari or Jalis. This means that Mallyx is the only legend that can’t be used with Herald/Invocation/Devastation

Kidel.2057:

With the change to Shared Empowerment it’s very easy to reach permanent 25 stacks o might with no rune of strength. 18 to the group, 25 on self.

The only problem with Mallyx is that it still requires Corruption. It can’t be swapped in without it’s corresponding trait line, like Ventari or Jalis. This means that Mallyx is the only legend that can’t be used with Herald/Invocation/Devastation

Why not ? Mostly you just cut on Torment duration but with runes/food it’s still pretty close to or max.

Already ran in BWE2 mallyx without corr line to test it.

The purpose of Mallyx over Shiro is Resistance. You don’t get much of it without Corruption. And also condi copy and increased torment damage are only aviable via trait now. Mallyx is 80% less effective without Corruption and any condi damage build requires Mace.

In the last beta I’ve used Invocation/Devastation/Herald, and I’ve swapped in almost every legend according to the situation (much like what we already do with utility skills). Mallyx is the only one that doesn’t work like that. Ok, now at least you don’t die of self condis without Resistance, but what you get with the trait is too much convenient. I still think some Corruption traits should be baseline (condi copy and Resistance).

Kidel.2057:

The purpose of Mallyx over Shiro is Resistance. You don’t get much of it without Corruption. And also condi copy and increased torment damage are only aviable via trait now. Mallyx is 80% less effective without Corruption and any condi damage build requires Mace.

Speaking about spvp, I agree mallyx is not worth taking over shiro without going full condi. Then again, I don’t see why you would take shiro over mallyx if youre condition either. So honestly I think it’s just from what perspective you’re watching.

As for WvW, I think mallyx is a mandatory, even without the trait line. Due boon duration viable via food, you can stack up good enough boon duration for some good resistance for yourself and for your allies. Not only that but it also allows you to leap to certain areas without needing targets.

With or without a condi build, Mallyx is not even worth over Jalis if you don’t have Corruption. It’s incomplete without some traits. Damage wise and resistance wise. While Jalis is perfectly fine with every spec.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

A few more things:

• I reduced the after-cast of unyielding anguish by 260ms so it should help the responsiveness when you land.
• Embrace the Darkness: Lowered the cast time and after-cast by 400ms and reduced it’s upkeep cost by 1 so it’s at a 7 upkeep cast right now.

Thank you very much Roy. A very welcomed change!

Kidel.2057:

The purpose of Mallyx over Shiro is Resistance. You don’t get much of it without Corruption.

Even with Corruption you pretty much have to trait Adept for additional resistance eitherway. But yeah, valid points and hopefully will be adressed.

Kidel.2057:

With or without a condi build, Mallyx is not even worth over Jalis if you don’t have Corruption. It’s incomplete without some traits. Damage wise and resistance wise. While Jalis is perfectly fine with every spec.

What… Jalis does literally nothing for a condi build nor does it much anyway. The only good thing about jalis are the hammers. The rest is basically just lacking on so many things. Just because it got nerfed slightly doesn’t mean it’s absolutely horrible. Hell, the condition output on it’s own has been increased. The only thing they nerfed is the immense spike condition application you could gain in team fights.

BlackDevil.9268:

Kidel.2057:

With or without a condi build, Mallyx is not even worth over Jalis if you don’t have Corruption. It’s incomplete without some traits. Damage wise and resistance wise. While Jalis is perfectly fine with every spec.

What… Jalis does literally nothing for a condi build nor does it much anyway. The only good thing about jalis are the hammers. The rest is basically just lacking on so many things. Just because it got nerfed slightly doesn’t mean it’s absolutely horrible. Hell, the condition output on it’s own has been increased. The only thing they nerfed is the immense spike condition application you could gain in team fights.

That was not the point. Jalis, Ventari and Shiro can be used regardless of the trait you choose. Mallix is crap without Corruption, regardless of condi build or not.
I am mainly using Shiro/Glint with Invocation/Herald/Devastation.
I can simply swap in Jalis or Ventari when I need more support or survivability, but I can’t do the same with Mallyx, at least not without replacing Devastation with Corruption.

Killyox.3950:

Kidel.2057:

The purpose of Mallyx over Shiro is Resistance. You don’t get much of it without Corruption.

Even with Corruption you pretty much have to trait Adept for additional resistance eitherway. But yeah, valid points and hopefully will be adressed.

Thanks. That’s another issue. If you use Corruption with Mallyx there is no reason to pick any other adept except the resistance one.

Kidel.2057:

BlackDevil.9268:

Kidel.2057:

With or without a condi build, Mallyx is not even worth over Jalis if you don’t have Corruption. It’s incomplete without some traits. Damage wise and resistance wise. While Jalis is perfectly fine with every spec.

What… Jalis does literally nothing for a condi build nor does it much anyway. The only good thing about jalis are the hammers. The rest is basically just lacking on so many things. Just because it got nerfed slightly doesn’t mean it’s absolutely horrible. Hell, the condition output on it’s own has been increased. The only thing they nerfed is the immense spike condition application you could gain in team fights.

That was not the point. Jalis, Ventari and Shiro can be used regardless of the trait you choose. Mallix is crap without Corruption, regardless of condi build or not.
I am mainly using Shiro/Glint with Invocation/Herald/Devastation.
I can simply swap in Jalis or Ventari when I need more support or survivability, but I can’t do the same with Mallyx, at least not without replacing Devastation with Corruption.

Killyox.3950:

Kidel.2057:

The purpose of Mallyx over Shiro is Resistance. You don’t get much of it without Corruption.

Even with Corruption you pretty much have to trait Adept for additional resistance eitherway. But yeah, valid points and hopefully will be adressed.

Thanks. That’s another issue. If you use Corruption with Mallyx there is no reason to pick any other adept except the resistance one.

Same goes for mallyx in WvW, which my whole point was from the start. Just looking at sPvP is not balancing nor is it legit to say a legend is underpowered due the fact it can’t be used in any build. The reason these 3 legends can be picked is due that they all 3 have something in common: Defensive abilities for yourself. While mallyx has resistance, it is still a skill that becomes much more viable the more allies around you. (up to 5 obviously).

Sure mallyx got a big hit, but before that, mallyx in your sense wasn’t worth slotting either.

I’m also thinking you underestimate the power of ignoring things as immobilize, instead of cleansing them.

I’m not overly happy about the Mallyx changes but I’m willing to give them a try. Displacement was a key feature of the original Guild Wars encounter and the condition manipulation offered a fun play style which is now lost. Rather than repeat the many alternatives that have been suggested I’ll instead focus on stuff that hasn’t already been beaten to death.

Pulsating Pestilence
Increasing the trigger chance seems like it will help somewhat to retain what was removed from the Elite. However, have you considered making this copy fewer conditions at a time but with a quicker internal cooldown rather than copy all of your conditions every 15 seconds? I think this would be better as more of a continuous bombardment instead of an occasional burst (admittedly I am biased though).

Proposed Torment Trait
I don’t know if I like this. It sounds like a great idea for PvE, but making it as effective while stationary as it is while moving removes the unique mechanic Torment had going for it. Maybe in the future add a new condition called “Lethargy” that does more damage when stationary and less when mobile (apply it alongside Torment and then watch as the opponent just gives up in despair). If the trait is included though I think it should merge with Yearning Empowerment rather than replace Opportune Extraction.

Unrelenting Assault
I didn’t have much of a problem with it before but if it still receives complaints just have the skill miss and get put on cooldown if the initial hit is dodged. That way, reading and reacting to it quickly shuts it down but if you aren’t paying attention you know what’s coming.

Legendary Centaur Stance
I’m glad this is getting some tweaks. I enjoyed the tablet mechanic but it was frustrating spending energy to move it somewhere and then have people move out of the way before the skills had fired off. The changes should help but a trait that makes the tablet teleport instantly to the location rather than glide would be very welcome.

One thing that did cross my mind while using it, why is Natural Harmony separate from Ventari’s Will when it’s basically just a heal skill? They could easily be merged by having the Natural Harmony effect trigger as soon as the tablet has finished being willed into position. This would free up a utility slot for a water field based area denial skill. I’m also surprised that Vigor isn’t more of a thing for someone who is trying to avoid damage. Maybe it works too well with stability/condition removal on dodge?

Mending Oasis – Summon an oasis around Ventari’s tablet that applies regeneration and vigor to allies. Foes cannot enter the area. (Duration 5 seconds)

Forceful Displacement
If Unyielding Anguish is effectively gone and our downed skill is getting changed anyway, can we get something more unique to replace it completely? Forceful Displacement doesn’t really resemble any skill the Revenant has now. When you have to condense every profession into 3 skills it’s important to retain the individuality of them. Mesmers make a downed clone of themselves, Thieves teleport away, Rangers pets even help revive them. Maybe we could hide in The Mists to evade attacks and then return to where we were? Like a stationary Unrelenting Assault but without the jumping around and damage.

Phase Retreat – Temporarily hide in The Mists to evade all attacks. (Duration 2 seconds)

Overall though, I’m excited to try out the new changes and especially pleased that Crystal Hibernation still roots you. It’s called hibernation for a reason.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

A few more things:

• I reduced the after-cast of unyielding anguish by 260ms so it should help the responsiveness when you land.
• Embrace the Darkness: Lowered the cast time and after-cast by 400ms and reduced it’s upkeep cost by 1 so it’s at a 7 upkeep cast right now.

The problem isn’t the activation times and cast times, the problem lies in that the previous functions of the stance were based in the theme of stacking conditions on you and then spreading them in fights, so you effectively had enough conditions to cover your damage sources (burning, torment, confusion and to a much lesser extent poison).

Now specificly sepaking of each skill:

Unyielding Anguish: served as a gap closer, source of torment and a defenisve skill too, all 3 in 1, with the changes now it’s just a low CD high cost source of torment with a basic and easily removable snare, sure if used in the right time it can increase the CD of a specific skill but by far it’s just not as strong as it was before, the thing is you can’t make this skill go lower on the energy cost because it’ll be trigger friendly, suggestion? bring the cost back to the previous one and add a knock down on top of chill, keep the dark field as it’s useful 1v1 (PvE wise dark fields are just not as useful) and if you consider the knock down far too powerful then just keep the original CD.

Embrace the Darkness previously you used Malyx when conditions were on you then you used an extra utility plus EtD to spread havok, now you’re just a torment bot, and the stance was mainly usable in WvW and PvP, it has whatsoever no viable use in PvE because the only 2 conditions that are a reliable source of damage for Revenant are poison (permanent 2-3 stacks which is the threshold to start doing some damage) and burning (3-6 stacks, not too strong but not too weak), if you run Malyx the best option you have is to run Corruption along with it since it gives you extra torment and some options to spread conditions, however right now there’s no synergy in between Corruption traits, Demon Stance and stat options required to effectively use said combos with the profession, and without the self applying conditions and the condition transfer on EtD you’re somewhere in between condition warrior and condition guardian, they’re fun in PvE for sure but they sacrifice too much party support to be effective and they have a really big difference in comparison to Revenant: for PvE Guard can keep up 8-12 stacks of burning while still keeping decent power, Warrior has access to both burning and decent ammounts of bleeding plus, some torment uptime those are constant and reliable condition damage sources, torment and confusion, which are the most on demand stuff revenant has access to isn’t, sure you can have burn uptime and a bit of poison lot too but it’s just not as strong to be a solid base, PvP/WvW The problem relies in both torment and confusion being strong with enough covers and that was a lot of the potention the previous iteration of Malyx had access to thanks to the effects on the elite, of course it meant you needed enough conditions on you but it was fair enough since to play effectively you needed to stapple run Demonic Defiance, now the smartest choice is running demonic defiance as you’ll just laugh on the face of condition users for as long as you sit on malyx, then you can switch out to glint and heal if needed while you wait on the resistance on the other stance effectively tanking condition sources on demand, the real problem is that you won’t have enough damage output to make up for the change, Mace hits like a wet noodle and making revenant have 2 or 3 more conditions with a low cost, high availability will make it too hard to balance.

Now on another side note Revenant Damage is too reliant on critical chance and critical damage, 3 trait lines are heavily focused on passive increases to crit chance and ferocity, with no damage modifiers whatsoever to condition damage or power outside of Devastation GM and Herald GM, sure Staff and Sword are great damage dealers, but if you’re running a condition spec you’re forced to pair in at least one set Mace/Axe just for the availability of torment and burn, and the posion on autoattack is just used for covering the important condis, burning and blasting might to have a decent damage output. still the mace for itself it’s quite weak if you don’t have access to might and crit chance, otherwise it’s perfectly fine and that just pigeonholes you into either running a Corruption, Invocation, Herald Hybrid or Condi spec, or a Corruption, Invocation, Retribution spec for a bit of more sustain, with Carrion, Rabid or in the case of WvW Sinister (quite strong).

So far it doesn’t sound so bad, but the problem is: it’s decent for PvP modes but you just lose a ton of synergy with traits with the changes you made which, previously traits were more effective now they’re just either pointless or not synergistic.

PvE wise the conditions availeable for Revenant are not reliable source of damage HOWEVER the good thing about this is that you’re stapple legend is Glint, so you can run with still some party support, at the price of sacrificing Assassin’s Pressence, which is a 5-7% DPS loss for the party yet it’s one of the only viable condition specs which has access to decent party support via Herald, to fix this the Condition Revenant would have to match it’s current direct damage DPS potential (10-13k DPS at optimal situations) or even go above it to make it worthwhile to sacrifice team support vs. personal DPS, for soloing? sure it’s quite decent but lets face it, so are the other condition builds, and to do that you need at least add and mantain1-2 extra poison stacks, and at least 10-15 bleeds, now adding bleeds to the repertoire of revenant at that ammount of stacks would make condition revenant too hard to counterplay in PvP/WvW because of the torment, bleed and burn uptime would be unmatched even by engineers, no profession would be able to cleanse fast enough to mitigate damage and then Revenant would be too stronk plz nerf that we would go back to ground zero with a condition spec.

Solution: tune down the torment stacks to 4-5, add some bleeds to balance out, keep damage reliable for PvE and not too over the top for PvP, bear in mind clenases can and will cancel effectively condition builds if there’s not enough condition uptime or condition covers and fields are easily counterplayed by not stepping in them.

Corruption
As for traits, there’s still a lot of stuff that I think it’s redundant on Salvation, but I’m more concerned about Corruption since we’re talking condition builds and Demon Stance, as I’ve said Bolstered Anguish has gone from reliable damage modifier to situational at best and lost most synergy with the Demon Stance already. Again Here are some suggestions for traits.

Minors
Rampant Vex might add a damage modifier to enemies that have torment 3-5%, but it might be overdoing it since you’ll probably want fury and precision gear to proc this.
Oportune Extraction No comments on this good trait since the beginning
Yearning Empowerment Again Demon Stance is based on torment so the trait is good

Adepts
Demonic Defiance Was needed before, now it’s not but it’s a no brainer to pick it as it makes the Revenant compete with cleansing ire management for conditions.
Venom Enhancement We’ll have to see how strong this gets, you’ll have around 5-6 stacks of poison, if you constantly spam autoattack, you get to 7 stacks with doom and this trait easily which is nothing to sneeze at, good for DPS and since the self applying conditions are not a thing anymore it’s an option if you want some extra damage.
Replenishing DespairToo weak compared to the other two options, yes you can mitigate some condition pressure but why do that when you can just ignore it with resistance or add damage for faster killing?

Masters
There’s a lot of problems here that stemmed from removing the control+spread mechanics on the stance and it’s my main concern.
Bolstered Anguish This has no longer synergy as you’re just not gonna have as many conditions on you as before, this should change to 2-3% damage per condition on your foe, otherwise it’s just not as strong as it was, it might go as low as 1% because in teamfights you’ll just get around 10+% damage just from this and having it go lower than 5% is just not worth it if you have a better defensive option.
Frigid Precision You have chill on Sword and Unyielding anguish, this trait is just redundant now, why bother picking it if I have chill on demand with UA?, this needs an extra effect, such as applying chill to foes also stuns them for 1-2 second(s) and make the stun share the 10s ICD with the chill on crit.
Spontaneous Destruction This is strong as it is and IMO it’s the most useful trait in this tier, if the other 2 don’t get fixed everyone will end up picking this.

Grandmasters:
Diabolic Inferno this was sort of weak before, as it just triggers when entering EtD and at 10s ICD it just wasn’t worth sacrificing better options for a single stack of burn, either make it grant fire aura, make you a walking fire field like warrior’s torch, make EtD pulse Burning(then EtD could stay at a higher energy upkeep cost, won’t like this as you’ll just pick on Demonic Defiance and toggle on EtD and watch things melt) or change it to Legendary Demon Stance skills also apply burning, or burn on crit, play around with the theme of giving 1-2 extra stacks of burning each 15 seconds.
Maniacal Persistence Nice if you run no Precision, useless if you do, specially if you pick Herald and Invocation, needs no change, staple pick if the other 2 traits don’t get changes
Pulsating Pestilence reduce the ICD to 7-10 seconds and make it 10% chance, as the copied condition just lasts 3 seconds and EtD doesn’t have the copy effect anymore, or change it to apply 2 random conditions when struck each 15 seconds, chance up to 50%, or just altogether make it a sort of pulse 1 condition on demon stance skill usage, and/or make EtD pulse 1 condition (poison, torment, burn or confusion) each second, play with the old EtD effect here so the players that liked that playstyle still have room for it. Edit: found a thread which suggests making a trait akin to Singet Mastery tons of ideas there: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Alternate-fix-for-Mallyx/first#post5495933

As side notes I don’t think adding more conditions on demand is a good fix, it’s just gonna make the condition Revenant too strong in PvP/WvW, the main concern to me is that traits in thhe master tier have no synergy with the stance and don’t have valuable tools asides an extra Banish Enchantment which is quite nice but it’s just situational and the grandmaster traits just feel weak in comparison to adepts.

Also making torment damage 75% while not moving would work a bit for PvE, but still it’s not enough to be competitive with the direct damage build in terms of damage while sacrificing needed team support, if you could make lets say rampant vex or yearning empowerment make torment 100% all the time PvE only and fix the Master traits it would make Condition Revenant as viable as direct damage.

Can you PLEASE make it so that hammer 3 doesnt return you back? Itd be nice to see some monility with hammer

Coolguy.8702:

Can you PLEASE make it so that hammer 3 doesnt return you back? Itd be nice to see some monility with hammer

No, this is a terrible idea, because hammer does more damage at greater distance. If you want a gap-closer, switch to something else.

Coolguy.8702:

Can you PLEASE make it so that hammer 3 doesnt return you back? Itd be nice to see some monility with hammer

Why would you need a gap closer on a weapon that does more damage at range?
Hammer 3 was kinda nonsense before, but now it’s perfect since it has an invulnerability frame that makes it useful in many situations (it’s free damage)

Coolguy.8702:

Can you PLEASE make it so that hammer 3 doesnt return you back? Itd be nice to see some monility with hammer

Gap closers on Hammer are not the way to go, if anything it needs to be a bit faster and that change is not really needed, Hammer and Axe are by far the worst Revenant weapons and Revenant has a ton of useful stuff in their Weaponsets, everything is useful in different situations, by far it’s one of the few professions with almost flawless weapon choices and effects.

Morfedel.4165:

Griffith.7238:

Why does everyone think you can’t beat condi builds without Mallyx. This is so far from true I can’t even believe it. I didn’t use Mallyx a single time in BWE2 and had great success in PvP. Shiro/Glint is excellent the fact that you all think you can’t win against a condi player without Mallyx is just ludicrous.

And Jalis as well. Jalis’ heal washes off all conditions, and his hammer skill lowers all incoming damage, including from conditions, by 20%.

I think part of Griffith’s point is that Shiro/Glint is probably the weakest to conditions: Riposting Shadows will strip Immobilise, Cripple and Chill, but apart from that, unless you give up Devastation for Salvation all you’re likely to have is the condition cleanse on legend swap from Invocation. Other combinations will have more tools overall to deal with conditions.

(For the record, though, Soothing Stone only strips 3 conditions. That’s often enough, but if you’ve just been condition-bombed it might not be. On the other hand, in my experience, with a full condi-bombing removing the conditions just means at least half of them will be back on again within seconds, so it probably doesn’t make a huge difference either way. In other circumstances, condi removal on weaponswap, plus being able to remove Immobilise with a rollback, probably does cover for a lot.)

Killyox.3950:

So is it like 2 stacks of torment every 1 second? That’s what I get from it seeing as it was 1 every 1 sec before with self applied torment.

Previously, copied conditions from EtD lasted 3 seconds, so the Torment from EtD could generate up to 3 stacks. With an 8s duration this could ramp up to 8 stacks, but it’d be harder to hit the max, so a typical result of generating roughly double the Torment of the original version is probably accurate.

draxynnic.3719:

Morfedel.4165:

Griffith.7238:

Why does everyone think you can’t beat condi builds without Mallyx. This is so far from true I can’t even believe it. I didn’t use Mallyx a single time in BWE2 and had great success in PvP. Shiro/Glint is excellent the fact that you all think you can’t win against a condi player without Mallyx is just ludicrous.

And Jalis as well. Jalis’ heal washes off all conditions, and his hammer skill lowers all incoming damage, including from conditions, by 20%.

I think part of Griffith’s point is that Shiro/Glint is probably the weakest to conditions: Riposting Shadows will strip Immobilise, Cripple and Chill, but apart from that, unless you give up Devastation for Salvation all you’re likely to have is the condition cleanse on legend swap from Invocation. Other combinations will have more tools overall to deal with conditions.

(For the record, though, Soothing Stone only strips 3 conditions. That’s often enough, but if you’ve just been condition-bombed it might not be. On the other hand, in my experience, with a full condi-bombing removing the conditions just means at least half of them will be back on again within seconds, so it probably doesn’t make a huge difference either way. In other circumstances, condi removal on weaponswap, plus being able to remove Immobilise with a rollback, probably does cover for a lot.)

Killyox.3950:

So is it like 2 stacks of torment every 1 second? That’s what I get from it seeing as it was 1 every 1 sec before with self applied torment.

Previously, copied conditions from EtD lasted 3 seconds, so the Torment from EtD could generate up to 3 stacks. With an 8s duration this could ramp up to 8 stacks, but it’d be harder to hit the max, so a typical result of generating roughly double the Torment of the original version is probably accurate.

if traited you get 5 poison, 5-7 torment and 4 burning on demand the real problem is now you don’t have covers for those, so they get cleansed easily, the thing is you can get them up with around 30-40% of your energy in like 5-6 seconds again, condition bunker might be as viable if not more viable than marauder spec now, as I’ve said in a ton of posts Mallyx lost all the synergy in between the previous effects vs current effects on corruption traits, and that you’re more forced than before to run mace/axe for best torment uptime plus now we have 5/12 traits that are not worth taking in a single traitline.

Rygg.6237:

Hammer and Axe are by far the worst Revenant weapons

Speak for yourself, hammer never leaves my bar, I find it the best of revenant weapons actually (when it’s not bugged by the terrain that is).

Kidel.2057:

Coolguy.8702:

Can you PLEASE make it so that hammer 3 doesnt return you back? Itd be nice to see some monility with hammer

Why would you need a gap closer on a weapon that does more damage at range?
Hammer 3 was kinda nonsense before, but now it’s perfect since it has an invulnerability frame that makes it useful in many situations (it’s free damage)

I think you guys are missing the point here. If they allowed you to activate the button again to stay where you cast it rather then return this skill would become way more versatile. You guys are forgetting it is ground targeted and doesn’t require a target. This means that you can also use this as a gap creator. On the flip side you could use it as an initiate if you planned to switch to melee hammer 3 in and then once you land weapon swap. The weapon of course would retain its current functionality of just being able to use it and return to your location provided you don’t hit the button again. This would give the Hammer a much needed disengage as it currently doesn’t have one as well as add some more versatility to it. The only possible problem that this suggestion can present is that it might be considered too strong.

Griffith.7238:

Kidel.2057:

Coolguy.8702:

Can you PLEASE make it so that hammer 3 doesnt return you back? Itd be nice to see some monility with hammer

Why would you need a gap closer on a weapon that does more damage at range?
Hammer 3 was kinda nonsense before, but now it’s perfect since it has an invulnerability frame that makes it useful in many situations (it’s free damage)

I think you guys are missing the point here. If they allowed you to activate the button again to stay where you cast it rather then return this skill would become way more versatile. You guys are forgetting it is ground targeted and doesn’t require a target. This means that you can also use this as a gap creator. On the flip side you could use it as an initiate if you planned to switch to melee hammer 3 in and then once you land weapon swap. The weapon of course would retain its current functionality of just being able to use it and return to your location provided you don’t hit the button again. This would give the Hammer a much needed disengage as it currently doesn’t have one as well as add some more versatility to it. The only possible problem that this suggestion can present is that it might be considered too strong.

I would be totally for this, make it work like sword 2 on thief and you can return within a couple second window if want. Plus revenant currently has no real leap skills for ooc (mallyx utility does not count as it hits nearby animals and has only 600 range, and you stick at end of leap) and this would be sweet. I doubt they will actually do this but I would be all for it!

I think at one point they said revenant will be quite mobile out of combat. To address that simply having access to swiftness does not make you mobile. Leaps, dashes, blinks, shadow steps etc etc are what make you mobile.

Dewzie.7015:

Mending Oasis – Summon an oasis around Ventari’s tablet that applies regeneration and vigor to allies. Foes cannot enter the area. (Duration 5 seconds)

This would be a great fourth utility skill if every legend was given an extra utility for some customization.

I never really used the projectile block on Ventari and would love to have a water field skill I could use in place of projectile defense.

Griffith.7238:

I think you guys are missing the point here.

While I can see the appeal, there’d have to be a gap in the evade, which is going to make it a problem to use the ability in some conditions. Not to mention, it potentially creates issues with the camera.

After reading the feedback towards the mallyx changes I noticed that the players that like the new changes are viewing them from a WvW and PvE perspective: These players talk about using food buffs, torment runes, and other things that don’t exist in sPvP to make the changes work to their advantage.

On the other hand, players like myself that believe that the old mallyx skills, with the exception of UA, were in a perfect state view these changes from the sPvP perspective.

With only one beta weekend left and a mallyx getting a complete revamp at this stage I doubt that all of the changes needed to make him viable all game modes can be rooted out before release.

So here’s a proposal: Just split the skills.

Let those of us who were content with the previous mallyx slot the old versions of his skills (excluding UA) and the others take on the new version if they like.

Now that there is talk of adding a 100% PvE only trait that increases torment damage on non-moving targets I think a split is needed more than ever.

I don’t think Mallyx will suffer much in sPvP.

With point on Torment through UA + EtD he can ramp it up a lot and since in pvp everyone moves all the time Torment should be doing its top dmg most of the time.

I do miss being able to blind someone with EtD blind copy in aoe.

M/Shield and M/Sword should be also pretty decent at surviving with 2s block on 12s and 3s block with healing on 20s while applying pressure through #2 #3 UA and EtD.

Hiki.9310:

After reading the feedback towards the mallyx changes I noticed that the players that like the new changes are viewing them from a WvW and PvE perspective: These players talk about using food buffs, torment runes, and other things that don’t exist in sPvP to make the changes work to their advantage.

On the other hand, players like myself that believe that the old mallyx skills, with the exception of UA, were in a perfect state view these changes from the sPvP perspective.

With only one beta weekend left and a mallyx getting a complete revamp at this stage I doubt that all of the changes needed to make him viable all game modes can be rooted out before release.

So here’s a proposal: Just split the skills.

Let those of us who were content with the previous mallyx slot the old versions of his skills (excluding UA) and the others take on the new version if they like.

Now that there is talk of adding a 100% PvE only trait that increases torment damage on non-moving targets I think a split is needed more than ever.

Actually I’m thinking of it in a PvP perspective too on Mallyx. Say you are on a team with a bunker guard. Guard needs to pump out boons and shouts to sustain to a degree but you’re mallyx so if they do that then you get screwed over by your condis being cleansed. Not doing that screws him over too so it’s a lose lose situation.

Giving Mallyx a way to transfer conditions to enemies would go a long way towards resolving this issue. It allows those that liked the old play style to get some degree of it back without punishing other players for inadvertently cleansing you.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Corruption
In the corruption specialization, there were a few traits which needed some tweaks in power to be competitive options. As an example revenant did not have many options to apply poison, but had the trait Venom Enhancement which increased poison duration so I thought it made sense to also apply poison itself.
Pulsating Pestilence: Increased the trigger chance from 15% to 25%.
Replenishing Despair: Increased the base heal by 300% and added a 1 second internal cool-down.
Venom Enhancement: This trait will now apply poison for 5 seconds with a 20 second recharge when you apply torment as well as increasing poison duration.

Few propositions of mine

Pulsating Pestilence – Trigger Chance 100%. When struck copy all conditions present on you if at or above threshold. (ICD 15s)
Threshold: 3
Radius 360
Duration 3s

Or

Pulsating Pestilence – Trigger chance 33%. When struck you have a chance to copy all conditions present on you and gain resistance with every pulse (1s). ICD 15s-20s. Radius 240-360. Duration 3s

Duration describes duration of pulsing so 3s = 3 pulses. Now this is GM worthy imo.

Replenishing Despair – this is way way too weak because resistance from this row is far far better. 1s of resistance in right conditions can prevent 3k burn dmg for example. If it’s supposed to have an ICD then it needs to heal more. 300% from ~50 up to 150 with 1s ICD is nothing.

Replenishing Despair – Incoming Conditions heal you. 1000 heal. 5s ICD.

Equals around 250hps if procced every single time so it’s not game breaking and is more useful. This way it is more meaningful and a bit more valuable while not being OP. 150 heal every 1s is bad because how often you get conditions every second on yourself? Not too often. Rather make ICD higher and the effect more impactful.

Venom Enhancement – how about a little twist on it? It can be understood in many ways since you enhance poison. It would also make 3rd attack in chain a bit more useful ever time ICD was recharged.

Venom Enhancement – Apply poison (5s). When you apply poison you also blind in area around your target (240 radius) for 5s. Poison you apply lasts 50% longer. ICD 25-30s

It makes all of these competitive imo and valuable enough to actually compete vs resistance one. Also GM PP one is a better. Option 1 allows to to estimate when it will take place and to guarentee a certain level of impact. Option 2 does not ave a threshold thus decrease it’s power a bit but it makes up for it with resistance. I thought about 1s per every condition copied but decided middle ground with 3s. It could end up being 1s or 10s otherwise.

I think pain absorption needs a rework now that Mallyx rev won’t be gaining power from stacking condis on itself. Perhaps something like ‘convert 1 condition to resistance for nearby allies’ with a resistance duration of 2 seconds.

Coldtart.4785:

I think pain absorption needs a rework now that Mallyx rev won’t be gaining power from stacking condis on itself. Perhaps something like ‘convert 1 condition to resistance for nearby allies’ with a resistance duration of 2 seconds.

No need. Pain Absorption gives Resistance for every pulled Condi thus making you immune and your heal heals you for more if you have condi on you.

So they don’t work and make you heal for more. That and Pulsating Prestilence with a buff since it copies as I get it every second for 3 seconds conditions present on you.

PS

While we are at it can we have Pain Absorption apply Blind, Weakness and Cripple to ourselves? Would synergize with Pulsating Pestilence nicely.

Since corruption and mallyx is all about being the master of torment and being pushed more that route, I’m playing around with an idea I wanted to run by all of you. Torment is less valued in stationary fights due to the way torment functions. Since torment is the main damaging condition for Revenant, I’ve been thinking about adding functionality to a trait or maybe changing the minor 2 in corruption to increase the base damage torment does while not moving while not increasing the while moving damage to help it become more of a viable option in all areas of the game. What do you all think?

This comes down to the nature of torment itself and ain’t different for a revenant or for example a mesmer scepter. If you really feel torment in itself is in a poor place, don’t just change a trait on rev to boost it, change the condition itself to make it more worth it. I’m pretty sure all classes with access to torment will feel the same about it. A better solution therefore could be: A bigger percentage on base damage, less additional damage on movement. not that different to how confusion was dealt with.

HypnoticEyes.2683:

Since corruption and mallyx is all about being the master of torment and being pushed more that route, I’m playing around with an idea I wanted to run by all of you. Torment is less valued in stationary fights due to the way torment functions. Since torment is the main damaging condition for Revenant, I’ve been thinking about adding functionality to a trait or maybe changing the minor 2 in corruption to increase the base damage torment does while not moving while not increasing the while moving damage to help it become more of a viable option in all areas of the game. What do you all think?

This comes down to the nature of torment itself and ain’t different for a revenant or for example a mesmer scepter. If you really feel torment in itself is in a poor place, don’t just change a trait on rev to boost it, change the condition itself to make it more worth it.

It’s not that tbh. Condition is good as supplementary condition often but other classes rely on other conditions as well like bleed, burn, confusion while Mallyx besides #2 fire is almost exclusively Torment based that’s why it is supposed to get boost. Why? Because if they simply make us stack even more then it’s ok when not moving and totally deadly when moving. So they want to raise bottom dmg up without raising total dmg when moving.

Killyox.3950:

HypnoticEyes.2683:

Since corruption and mallyx is all about being the master of torment and being pushed more that route, I’m playing around with an idea I wanted to run by all of you. Torment is less valued in stationary fights due to the way torment functions. Since torment is the main damaging condition for Revenant, I’ve been thinking about adding functionality to a trait or maybe changing the minor 2 in corruption to increase the base damage torment does while not moving while not increasing the while moving damage to help it become more of a viable option in all areas of the game. What do you all think?

This comes down to the nature of torment itself and ain’t different for a revenant or for example a mesmer scepter. If you really feel torment in itself is in a poor place, don’t just change a trait on rev to boost it, change the condition itself to make it more worth it.

It’s not that tbh. Condition is good as supplementary condition often but other classes rely on other conditions as well like bleed, burn, confusion while Mallyx besides #2 fire is almost exclusively Torment based that’s why it is supposed to get boost. Why? Because if they simply make us stack even more then it’s ok when not moving and totally deadly when moving. So they want to raise bottom dmg up without raising total dmg when moving.

Well doing math torment is the second damaging condition in the game, worth half of a burning if the target moves.
Atm we can spike up to 20+ stacks with very optimal conditions especially in pve, which is worth 10 stacks of burning.
So i’d say we are in pretty good place. I’d prefer something better but in PvE that trait that enhance the torment damage while standing still is good enough for me.
Just i don’t see many uses in pvp ^^

Gaaroth.2567:

Killyox.3950:

HypnoticEyes.2683:

Since corruption and mallyx is all about being the master of torment and being pushed more that route, I’m playing around with an idea I wanted to run by all of you. Torment is less valued in stationary fights due to the way torment functions. Since torment is the main damaging condition for Revenant, I’ve been thinking about adding functionality to a trait or maybe changing the minor 2 in corruption to increase the base damage torment does while not moving while not increasing the while moving damage to help it become more of a viable option in all areas of the game. What do you all think?

This comes down to the nature of torment itself and ain’t different for a revenant or for example a mesmer scepter. If you really feel torment in itself is in a poor place, don’t just change a trait on rev to boost it, change the condition itself to make it more worth it.

It’s not that tbh. Condition is good as supplementary condition often but other classes rely on other conditions as well like bleed, burn, confusion while Mallyx besides #2 fire is almost exclusively Torment based that’s why it is supposed to get boost. Why? Because if they simply make us stack even more then it’s ok when not moving and totally deadly when moving. So they want to raise bottom dmg up without raising total dmg when moving.

Well doing math torment is the second damaging condition in the game, worth half of a burning if the target moves.
Atm we can spike up to 20+ stacks with very optimal conditions especially in pve, which is worth 10 stacks of burning.
So i’d say we are in pretty good place. I’d prefer something better but in PvE that trait that enhance the torment damage while standing still is good enough for me.
Just i don’t see many uses in pvp ^^

Ahh, but in PvP, the new EtD has quite potential as well. I’ve already got a combo in mind that’ll stack a ton of Torment rather quickly. Add a couple condi covers on your weapons, and that will help with the cleansing. EtD is now a potential game changer, and all within a short amount of time.

If the new trait increases Torment base damage (not the one while moving) then it’s an amazing condi for pve. But Mallyx would be even more dependand on Corruption.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Rygg.6237:

Hammer and Axe are by far the worst Revenant weapons

Speak for yourself, hammer never leaves my bar, I find it the best of revenant weapons actually (when it’s not bugged by the terrain that is).

And you proved my point, I never said Hammer and Axe were bad, I said they’re the worst options amongst Revenant’s weaponsets and that’s just to say they’re not as great as other options, Revenant weaponskills are great in their current state even with the downsides they might have.

Kidel.2057:

If the new trait increases Torment base damage (not the one while moving) then it’s an amazing condi for pve. But Mallyx would be even more dependand on Corruption.

IMO Malyx always was dependant on Corruption, but the traits need a ton of rework since a lot of them were designed with the previous mechanics of the stance.

hey Roy,
what is the new CD for the trait change “an eye for eye” or it still the same.

I think Riposting shadows should also clear Slow seeing how it should remove debilitating conditions. Revs will have a real problem dealing with chronomancers

Roy Cronacher.1576:

• Since corruption and mallyx is all about being the master of torment and being pushed more that route, I’m playing around with an idea I wanted to run by all of you. Torment is less valued in stationary fights due to the way torment functions. Since torment is the main damaging condition for Revenant, I’ve been thinking about adding functionality to a trait or maybe changing the minor 2 in corruption to increase the base damage torment does while not moving while not increasing the while moving damage to help it become more of a viable option in all areas of the game. What do you all think?

I’m opposed to this change in the same way that I was and still am opposed to the Confusion condition change. The entire point of confusion was that you were punished for skill use and rapid firing skills could get you killed if you weren’t paying attention. The change to making confusion tick in addition to damage-per-skill removes the entire flavor of the skill. With Torment, it appears we’d be doing the same thing. Yes, that makes Confuse/Torment strong in some situations and weak in others. That’s the point, is it not?

Killyox.3950:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Corruption
In the corruption specialization, there were a few traits which needed some tweaks in power to be competitive options. As an example revenant did not have many options to apply poison, but had the trait Venom Enhancement which increased poison duration so I thought it made sense to also apply poison itself.
Pulsating Pestilence: Increased the trigger chance from 15% to 25%.
Replenishing Despair: Increased the base heal by 300% and added a 1 second internal cool-down.
Venom Enhancement: This trait will now apply poison for 5 seconds with a 20 second recharge when you apply torment as well as increasing poison duration.

Few propositions of mine

Pulsating Pestilence – Trigger Chance 100%. When struck copy all conditions present on you if at or above threshold. (ICD 15s)
Threshold: 3
Radius 360
Duration 3s

Or

Pulsating Pestilence – Trigger chance 33%. When struck you have a chance to copy all conditions present on you and gain resistance with every pulse (1s). ICD 15s-20s. Radius 240-360. Duration 3s

Duration describes duration of pulsing so 3s = 3 pulses. Now this is GM worthy imo.

Replenishing Despair – this is way way too weak because resistance from this row is far far better. 1s of resistance in right conditions can prevent 3k burn dmg for example. If it’s supposed to have an ICD then it needs to heal more. 300% from ~50 up to 150 with 1s ICD is nothing.

Replenishing Despair – Incoming Conditions heal you. 1000 heal. 5s ICD.

Equals around 250hps if procced every single time so it’s not game breaking and is more useful. This way it is more meaningful and a bit more valuable while not being OP. 150 heal every 1s is bad because how often you get conditions every second on yourself? Not too often. Rather make ICD higher and the effect more impactful.

Venom Enhancement – how about a little twist on it? It can be understood in many ways since you enhance poison. It would also make 3rd attack in chain a bit more useful ever time ICD was recharged.

Venom Enhancement – Apply poison (5s). When you apply poison you also blind in area around your target (240 radius) for 5s. Poison you apply lasts 50% longer. ICD 25-30s

It makes all of these competitive imo and valuable enough to actually compete vs resistance one. Also GM PP one is a better. Option 1 allows to to estimate when it will take place and to guarentee a certain level of impact. Option 2 does not ave a threshold thus decrease it’s power a bit but it makes up for it with resistance. I thought about 1s per every condition copied but decided middle ground with 3s. It could end up being 1s or 10s otherwise.

I don’t like the upcoming change on Replenishing Despair (Corruption Adept trait) – now heals for 300% more when you get a condition, 1 second ICD.

The ICD kills the tactical use of this trait, in my opinion. Even if you increase the heal (1000 every 5 sec. as you mention), it doesn’t change this. You could previously use Pain Absorption to pull in 6 or 7 condis from allies and get a bunch of healing (triggering Replenishing Despair once for each condi you got), but now it’s capped at one heal per second whether you get one condi or five of them. There’s not much you can do to force it to trigger, it’s just boring passive healing. Of course, as you say, it doesn’t matter anyways since Demonic Defiance is better, and I certainly agree with you there. As is, Replenish Despair seems weak unless you’re taking Corruption without taking Mallyx – but currently there’s not any good reason I can see to do that.

Gav.1425:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

• Since corruption and mallyx is all about being the master of torment and being pushed more that route, I’m playing around with an idea I wanted to run by all of you. Torment is less valued in stationary fights due to the way torment functions. Since torment is the main damaging condition for Revenant, I’ve been thinking about adding functionality to a trait or maybe changing the minor 2 in corruption to increase the base damage torment does while not moving while not increasing the while moving damage to help it become more of a viable option in all areas of the game. What do you all think?

I’m opposed to this change in the same way that I was and still am opposed to the Confusion condition change. The entire point of confusion was that you were punished for skill use and rapid firing skills could get you killed if you weren’t paying attention. The change to making confusion tick in addition to damage-per-skill removes the entire flavor of the skill. With Torment, it appears we’d be doing the same thing. Yes, that makes Confuse/Torment strong in some situations and weak in others. That’s the point, is it not?

It’s more of a PvE change really. Both those conditions are stupid weak there. The confusion change doesn’t remove any flavor either; an Ele spamming skills will still kill himself, it just means that a mob that gets CC-chained still takes a bit of damage from your efforts if you applied confusion.

What about this PvE-focused trait:

- If your target stays stationary for more than 3 seconds, they’ll take full torment damage (or close to full, like, 90%).

Or put that to 2 seconds to make it more viable in PvP as well, when combined with some CC-chaining.

Because players are always moving in pvp, it seems balanced for both modes. Makes torment not-useless versus bosses in PvE, while still requiring some CC play for normal PvP and PvE.