Guild Wars 2

I’m no expert on Revenants, so this is a question for you pro players. Would removing energy costs from rev weapons be a good idea? Would it be balanced, would it need balancing and what are your thoughts on it if they did implement it?

They should already be gone given how dev raised cd’s. Now its just double punishment for no reward.

Yes they need to remove the Energy costs I don’t even Main Rev and it is very idiotic to keep both with the increased CDs.

No, energy costs should stay.

Rym.1469:

No, energy costs should stay.

And why they should stay? They got rid of this concept already by raising cd’s on literally everything cause we were supposed to have lower spamable cd’s than other classes+energy to balance it out so again.. why rev should still use energy to cast?

Right now its nothing but double punishment. If it supposed to stay then warrior wep skills should use adrenaline, thief receive cooldowns etc etc. Either bring back low cd’s like rev was supposed to have or remove energy from them already. Right now its not balanced by any means. Players arent responsible for breaking the profession but devs who messed it up.

I’m all for reworking skills on weapons, but I’d still like them to cost Energy.

The problem is Rev was shipped highly overtuned in certain areas, as well as with a simple concept low CD with energy cost, now that Rev has been brought more inline they have to change the concept. The easiest and most non class breaking way is to remove Energy costs on weapon skills while adjusting the CDs on the skills. They can keep the upkeep/utility Energy costs those should be fine possibly rebalance the upkeep costs since weapons will no longer dip into the energy pool.

But this is what happens when a game ships a blatantly overtuned class to try a generate sales, they have to brought inline at some point.

To remove costs youre asking for an entire class redesign. Hasn’t happened to anyone since launch so we can assume it wont now.

Rev is in this odd spot where you have to frantically expel your resources and swap just so you can have energy to use the tools you need. Then it is a 50:50 if your in the legend that has the tool you need when you need it. If you attempt to camp a legend for a specific reason or functionality the class starves it’s self and locks it’s self out of its own tools. An example of this is if you stay in mallyx to attempt to mitigate condition damage, you’ll last a mere 5 seconds and then be helplessly starved un able to do anything but auto attack until you swap. If you just swapped, well congratz now you get to spend 4 seconds kiting, until you can do something again.

The reason for this is our weapon skills and our utilities gate each other from being able to be used because of how costly they are. originally the gates were fine, considering how strong the both sets of skills were. However, none of the weapon skills are worth their costs anymore with the recent set of nerfs (almost everything is less damage than auto attack).

They need to either remove(or heavily reduce) the costs on weapon skills, or reduce the costs heavily on the utilities and get rid of the cool downs, or give us means to generate energy.

Honestly they should give us rewards for landing high cost skills or possibly auto attack generating energy. The high cost path could be something like landing surge of the mist; each hit giving you 2.5 energy back. An example of the auto attack generating energy would be 2.5->2.5->5 for the auto attack chain. The only draw back I can see to this is they will do balance around having that regen and further increase the costs of everything, putting us back into the same starved problem.

I think instead of removing energy cost, they should increase energy cost and remove cd completely or keeping at the max of 5 secs. It makes more sense that way.

Make weapon skills use very little energy, 5-8 or so. But make utilities stronger but less spammable by increasing cost.

Gwaihir.1745:

Make weapon skills use very little energy, 5-8 or so. But make utilities stronger but less spammable by increasing cost.

Most utilities aren’t even spammable if you have the energy now that the vast majority have cd’s.

Removing the energy cost would be nice, but to do so would be an admission that they screwed up and left something unfixed for over a year.

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

CDs were always on the class

Just lower the Energy cost of certain abilities, and give 1 sec CD to some utility, or lower energy cost of certain high energy weapon skills.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

As already mentioned, CD’s were already on the class, and taking them off of weapons would break things terribly.

Being able to use s3 multiple times in a row would be massively OP, or SotM. Weapons need CD’s, though I think some are a bit harsh, and there are some utilities that need their CD’s removed, especially some of the high energy ones.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

As already mentioned, CD’s were already on the class, and taking them off of weapons would break things terribly.

Being able to use s3 multiple times in a row would be massively OP, or SotM. Weapons need CD’s, though I think some are a bit harsh, and there are some utilities that need their CD’s removed, especially some of the high energy ones.

What if they removed the energy cost on weapons, would that be balanced or would cooldowns be increased to balance it?

I, personally, would like to see cd’s and energy remain on weapons, but Anet’s recent tactic of increasing cd’s on skills is not what I would like to see, and that does make things feel unfair to have the burden of both energy and cd management when everything keeps slowly getting more costly and restrictive.

To answer your question, if they removed the energy cost of weapons, I would rather see a rework of utility energy before increasing cd’s of weapons more, basically making the mechanics a reverse of thief.

This is an area I will admit I get a bit iffy on sometimes, because I think everything went out of whack when they gave rev weapon swap, which was a blessing and a curse.

I still hate these people who asked for weapon swap. It was not needed. Anyway with current cd’s on wep skills, energy has to gtfo.

… to be honest, without weapon swap, what advantage would it be? I mean rev is under doing in many ways (in general), so weapon swap isn’t so bad.

Sagei.1980:

… to be honest, without weapon swap, what advantage would it be? I mean rev is under doing in many ways (in general), so weapon swap isn’t so bad.

Without weapon swap, the sets were supposed to be able to stand alone and serve a variety of purposes, hence why some things were so kitten strong at first; that was all you had. Giving weapon swap made some things stand out as massively OP, like the original SotM.

I would have rather we stayed at one weapon set, but reworked them properly to be able to stand on their own.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

CDs were always on the class

CutesySylveon.8290:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

As already mentioned, CD’s were already on the class, and taking them off of weapons would break things terribly.

Being able to use s3 multiple times in a row would be massively OP, or SotM. Weapons need CD’s, though I think some are a bit harsh, and there are some utilities that need their CD’s removed, especially some of the high energy ones.

They weren’t there with pre-beta and betas, if I remember correctly. There might’ve been a few put in at beta-3 though. No CDs is what made the class appealing.

Also, CDs aren’t the only way to balance, so I’d disagree that they’re needed.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

CDs were always on the class

In Beta Weekend 1 the Revenant had Weapon CDs iirc the UA was 10 sec CD and so on.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

As already mentioned, CD’s were already on the class, and taking them off of weapons would break things terribly.

Being able to use s3 multiple times in a row would be massively OP, or SotM. Weapons need CD’s, though I think some are a bit harsh, and there are some utilities that need their CD’s removed, especially some of the high energy ones.

They weren’t there with pre-beta and betas, if I remember correctly. There might’ve been a few put in at beta-3 though. No CDs is what made the class appealing.

Also, CDs aren’t the only way to balance, so I’d disagree that they’re needed.

I think you messed up your quotes and reply Blaque, but I see what your posted.

I don’t remember there being a CD put on #3 sword during the betas, but I do remember it being one of the first skills to have a CD.

Regardless, I still stand by my point though. CDs ruined the profession and aren’t needed on utilities or weapons. There are other ways to balance and fix glaring problems with being able to spam skills.

Yeah I’m on my phone so sometimes the quotes mess up. But ever since the first Rev beta it had the CDs they were just extremely low. There are quiet a few videos that showcase Rev from BW1 that highlight the skills.

Anet has one of two things they can do, remove Weapon CDs and only have energy cost then have to rebalance all skills accordingly, or remove the energy cost on weapon skills and rebalance accordingly either could achieve similar results just different flavors of the same thing.

Still proposing this: Remove energy costs on weaponskills, keep cd. Weaponskills are weaponskills like every other class has (except thief)
Remove CD on utilities. Utilities and elite/heal only cost energy.
Weaponskills do replenish energy when being used.
Now you can use weaponskills for energy restoration and utilities use it.
With this back and forth we would have some purpose in energy.

Weapon skills always had cd. But just so you know sword 3 could be used literally every 7 seconds before and was much much more powerful, even if the damage spreaded to other targets each strike was hitting like truck. Now its pretty much a junk.

Utility skills should remain with 0 cd outside of the ones that actually can cc to prevent cc chains/ fake stow cancels like jade winds. They literally took everything that was fun about this class.

Burtnik.5218:

Weapon skills always had cd. But just so you know sword 3 could be used literally every 7 seconds before and was much much more powerful, even if the damage spreaded to other targets each strike was hitting like truck. Now its pretty much a junk.

Utility skills should remain with 0 cd outside of the ones that actually can cc to prevent cc chains/ fake stow cancels like jade winds. They literally took everything that was fun about this class.

I have to agree about the utility.

CC utilities should have cd’s to avoid things like chain Jade Winds or Forced Aggression, but the vast majority of the others need to have their cd’s removed and the skills reworked a bit in the process.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

CDs were always on the class

CutesySylveon.8290:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

As already mentioned, CD’s were already on the class, and taking them off of weapons would break things terribly.

Being able to use s3 multiple times in a row would be massively OP, or SotM. Weapons need CD’s, though I think some are a bit harsh, and there are some utilities that need their CD’s removed, especially some of the high energy ones.

They weren’t there with pre-beta and betas, if I remember correctly. There might’ve been a few put in at beta-3 though. No CDs is what made the class appealing.

Also, CDs aren’t the only way to balance, so I’d disagree that they’re needed.

I stared in BW2, and there were cd’s on weapons.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

CDs were always on the class

CutesySylveon.8290:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

As already mentioned, CD’s were already on the class, and taking them off of weapons would break things terribly.

Being able to use s3 multiple times in a row would be massively OP, or SotM. Weapons need CD’s, though I think some are a bit harsh, and there are some utilities that need their CD’s removed, especially some of the high energy ones.

They weren’t there with pre-beta and betas, if I remember correctly. There might’ve been a few put in at beta-3 though. No CDs is what made the class appealing.

Also, CDs aren’t the only way to balance, so I’d disagree that they’re needed.

I stared in BW2, and there were cd’s on weapons.

Thank you…. again? Blaque already corrected me.

As I already replied to Blaque, I started in Pre_Beta, but don’t remember them, but do remember sword #3 getting one of the first CDs on it.

Regardless, I still stand by my point. CD’s aren’t needed and there are other ways to balance in place of them.

Kevin.5980:

I think instead of removing energy cost, they should increase energy cost and remove cd completely…

Definitely.

This one change would transform the class into what was originally promised – another thief style (i.e. energy cost but no cooldowns) class.

IMO they could do away with CDs entirely.

If there are certain weapon or legend abilities which they feel are too powerful and shouldn’t be spammed, put a soft CD on them. If players use them again within x seconds, double the energy cost.

Cut all weapon skills down to 5e.
Make the “big” skills cause a -(1,2,3)ER debuff for 5sec that can stack.
Legend swap clears stacks.

All we need is some energy gain from our AutoAtacks thats all)

serj.8214:

All we need is some energy gain from our AutoAtacks thats all)

Why add energy gain from auto-attacks? This is hard to balance because-different weapons have different attack speeds. Different builds will prioritize auto-attacks over other builds, E.g. hammer can auto-attack all day, but mace can only do so when it is safe to be in melee range and when it can get into melee range in the first place. Support builds may also not auto-attack as much – but why should they have less access to energy than other builds?

If we want a specific action to cause energy regen, we should look at Thief and Initiative recovery as an example. From traits, these are the conditions under which the Thief can generate extra initiative:
-while in stealth
-when they evade an attack
-when they steal
-when they swap weapons
All of these actions require doing something (though arguably the energy regen on evade is kind of passive with Daredevils…). Adding energy regen on auto-attack provides little gameplay involvement from the Revenant to get that energy and is pretty much free energy. It could easily be replaced with a baseline increase in the energy regeneration rate for the same effect. Or, for that matter, for a decrease in energy cost of existing skills.

Caeledh.5437:

Kevin.5980:

I think instead of removing energy cost, they should increase energy cost and remove cd completely…

Definitely.

This one change would transform the class into what was originally promised – another thief style (i.e. energy cost but no cooldowns) class.

IMO they could do away with CDs entirely.

If there are certain weapon or legend abilities which they feel are too powerful and shouldn’t be spammed, put a soft CD on them. If players use them again within x seconds, double the energy cost.

This is a very interesting idea, and I would really like to see the Revenant head in this direction. Revenant needs to worry about both energy costs and cooldowns, and I think it is fine to need both. However, for weapon skills specifically, I feel currently the energy costs are generally pretty inconsequential while the cooldowns are the primary factor which regulates weapon skill use. I would like to see the balance tipped a little bit in the other direction.
I think it would be quite difficult to implement a complete removal of cooldowns on weapon skills though. Some weapon skills particularly would need to be heavily modified so that it wouldn’t break the game to pool energy and then spam them (e.g. Sword 3, Staff 5).

My personal suggestion is to remove weapon swap, add dual auto-attacks on weapons (like on the spear) and then shorten weapon cooldowns drastically. The reason they’re high in the first place is because powerful skills on two different weapon sets can be chained together.

I think some of the energy costs are a bit high but removing them altogether is a dumb idea. if you don’t know why then that’s too bad, maybe try using your brain to imagine what rev would be like when some skills can be spammed with little to no penalty. if the energy costs were increased but the cd was removed then that sounds ok.

fluidmonolith.3584:

serj.8214:

All we need is some energy gain from our AutoAtacks thats all)

Why add energy gain from auto-attacks? This is hard to balance because-different weapons have different attack speeds. Different builds will prioritize auto-attacks over other builds, E.g. hammer can auto-attack all day, but mace can only do so when it is safe to be in melee range and when it can get into melee range in the first place. Support builds may also not auto-attack as much – but why should they have less access to energy than other builds?

If we want a specific action to cause energy regen, we should look at Thief and Initiative recovery as an example. From traits, these are the conditions under which the Thief can generate extra initiative:
-while in stealth
-when they evade an attack
-when they steal
-when they swap weapons
All of these actions require doing something (though arguably the energy regen on evade is kind of passive with Daredevils…). Adding energy regen on auto-attack provides little gameplay involvement from the Revenant to get that energy and is pretty much free energy. It could easily be replaced with a baseline increase in the energy regeneration rate for the same effect. Or, for that matter, for a decrease in energy cost of existing skills.

Caeledh.5437:

Kevin.5980:

I think instead of removing energy cost, they should increase energy cost and remove cd completely…

Definitely.

This one change would transform the class into what was originally promised – another thief style (i.e. energy cost but no cooldowns) class.

IMO they could do away with CDs entirely.

If there are certain weapon or legend abilities which they feel are too powerful and shouldn’t be spammed, put a soft CD on them. If players use them again within x seconds, double the energy cost.

This is a very interesting idea, and I would really like to see the Revenant head in this direction. Revenant needs to worry about both energy costs and cooldowns, and I think it is fine to need both. However, for weapon skills specifically, I feel currently the energy costs are generally pretty inconsequential while the cooldowns are the primary factor which regulates weapon skill use. I would like to see the balance tipped a little bit in the other direction.
I think it would be quite difficult to implement a complete removal of cooldowns on weapon skills though. Some weapon skills particularly would need to be heavily modified so that it wouldn’t break the game to pool energy and then spam them (e.g. Sword 3, Staff 5).

My personal suggestion is to remove weapon swap, add dual auto-attacks on weapons (like on the spear) and then shorten weapon cooldowns drastically. The reason they’re high in the first place is because powerful skills on two different weapon sets can be chained together.

And what if sword with it fast AA will give Rev 1 point per hit and hammer 2-3 points per hit and they will give you 5-7 energy per 5 sec for example? There is ways to balance dat energy from AA)

I think autoattack chains should regen energy to be honest.

Rev staff in PvE has outrageous costs, all its damage is tied to skill 2 and its utility is in bar break but all its skills outside the auto cost ridiculous amounts of energy.

now you guys think aa should regen energy lol. it makes more sense to lower some of the weapon skill energy costs, or make those less used skills more powerful.

I haven’t leveled every class to 80 yet, but I haven’t found a class that can’t use abilities as soon as they come off of CD. Thief is the only one I could imagine having to choose between attacking, or pooling for CC breaks, or condi cleanse. If there are choices like that forced on a class, their should be some kind of benefit to it.

Stand The Wall.6987:

now you guys think aa should regen energy lol. it makes more sense to lower some of the weapon skill energy costs, or make those less used skills more powerful.

Why not, it would add energy management to the class other than “Use your skills, now you’re empty, swap legend” that is going right now.

I don’t even know why energy regen for the revenant is tied to swapping legends to begin with.

Where the weapon skill energy costs seem the most punishing to me is when I’m trying to use an upkeep skill. If I’m using Shiro’s or Malyx’s upkeep skill for example I feel like I need to stick mostly to auto-attack otherwise the upkeep skill is over too quickly. Since using only auto-attack isn’t too fun, I find myself saving the upkeep skill for when it’s “really needed” rather than using it as part of a regular rotation or juts because it’s fun. Removing energy costs from weapon skills would free up the revenant play style in my opinion, especially in the use of upkeep skills.

Weirdly, I think if they removed weapon energy costs it would make Mallyx pretty beastly in PvP. All that confusion spam while still being able to use your weapon skills.

Zenith.7301:

Stand The Wall.6987:

now you guys think aa should regen energy lol. it makes more sense to lower some of the weapon skill energy costs, or make those less used skills more powerful.

Why not, it would add energy management to the class other than “Use your skills, now you’re empty, swap legend” that is going right now.

I don’t even know why energy regen for the revenant is tied to swapping legends to begin with.

It was likely to discourage legend camping (“I’ll give boons and auto attack” glint stance rev).

Zenith.7301:

Why not, it would add energy management to the class other than “Use your skills, now you’re empty, swap legend” that is going right now.

instead of reducing the energy cost, suggestions were made to keep the energy costs they way they were (or take them away altogether, some people aren’t thinking more then 5 seconds ahead) and give aa energy regen. so instead of doing one thing, lets keep the current problem, put a bandaid over it, thus doubling the effort required. makes no sense.

Make the skills of Weapons good, so that the cost is justified. Or get rid of them.

Knighthonor.4061:

Make the skills of Weapons good, so that the cost is justified. Or get rid of them.

The expensive skills are the good skills in part because of their lower cooldown. Drop the hammer is an example of a skill that would probably have double the recharge on any other class.

Justine.6351:

Knighthonor.4061:

Make the skills of Weapons good, so that the cost is justified. Or get rid of them.

The expensive skills are the good skills in part because of their lower cooldown. Drop the hammer is an example of a skill that would probably have double the recharge on any other class.

Except for warrior, who has incredibly low cooldowns on all their weaponskills.

Or thief, who’s also the same.

Zenith.7301:

Justine.6351:

Knighthonor.4061:

Make the skills of Weapons good, so that the cost is justified. Or get rid of them.

The expensive skills are the good skills in part because of their lower cooldown. Drop the hammer is an example of a skill that would probably have double the recharge on any other class.

Except for warrior, who has incredibly low cooldowns on all their weaponskills.

Or thief, who’s also the same.

Alot of warrior weapon skills are mediocre.

Justine.6351:

Knighthonor.4061:

Make the skills of Weapons good, so that the cost is justified. Or get rid of them.

The expensive skills are the good skills in part because of their lower cooldown. Drop the hammer is an example of a skill that would probably have double the recharge on any other class.

What? Drop the hammer is one of the worst skills ingame. Many classes have stronger skills right now with the same or even lower cd. Compare PS to Electro-whirl. Which one you would choose? Cus i know the answer already.