Guild Wars 2

penelopehannibal.8947:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue

… he says to Purple Miku. Dude, that takes some serious guts. (or ignorance)

Why?

He’s crazy good at this game, mainly pve. I think if there’s anyone whose opinion you would take under serious consideration it would be Miku’s. Not to say his opinion is always right, but i do agree rev looks boring and a bit bad

Purple Miku.7032:

How is it a L2P issue? I’m complaining about the traits being bad, not complaining about having trouble playing it.

I compare this class’s traits to other classes’ traits, and they are dreadful by comparison. All four of the traitlines.

What’s difficult to understand?

Ahahah, a LOT of traits are bad on several classes at the moment. Rangers lost the 5% vitality converted into power trait and had it replaced with 7% healing power converted to power.

Anet has no idea what they are doing.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think if you gear towards Condi, you can find yourself with good sustained damage. With Anet’s Confi buff recently, it has the potential to be seriously overpowered.

But you have practically no traits to sustain you’re condition output also the condi changes nerfed revenant since burning got a lot weaker and they got no application changes. Also best torment applying malyx skill teleport foes away making almost every melee class frustated (which you are as a condi revenant).

Smooth Penguin.5294:

runeblade.7514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue. Revenants have a specific role in combat, and it’s up to the player to utilize the mechanics for maximum effectiveness.

You must be a master of revenant. Teach me your ways.

I think if you gear towards Condi, you can find yourself with good sustained damage. With Anet’s Confi buff recently, it has the potential to be seriously overpowered.

Can you show us? I haven’t preordered yet but last beta I couldn’t get more than 10 stacks of torment, which was just sad…

But you seem to know how to do crazy dps, can you post your build and explain how it works? I don’t think telling people over and over that rev is great without showing them how is going to convince anyone…

champ.7021:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think it’s a L2P issue

… he says to Purple Miku. Dude, that takes some serious guts. (or ignorance)

Why?

He’s crazy good at this game, mainly pve. I think if there’s anyone whose opinion you would take under serious consideration it would be Miku’s. Not to say his opinion is always right, but i do agree rev looks boring and a bit bad

Fair enough, though we can’t assume everyone in the game knows one player. Unless Tarasicodissa knows that Smooth Penguin has heard of Purple Miku’s PvE expertise of course!

I think the OP is right that one or two traits could get looked at – I mostly noticed the lack of “with this weapon” traits for example. I couldn’t find a single ‘with Staff’ trait or a ‘when wielding a Hammer’ trait myself. I could just be going blind though, so please correct me if I’m wrong. I suppose there’s always the possibility they’ll end on the final Specialisation line of course, though them all to be on one line would be strange I think.

I tried a rampager condi build and no, it’s no op. It still feels very weak. I just could not get any DPS out of revenant.

i try rev in pvp and must say its terrible class design rev dont have any synergy in traits like other class for rev is 1 legend 1 trait line 1 weapon thats all he have terrible casting time skills what is easy interupt no mobility hammer suck badly AA got too big casting time Jalis elite 3s casting time?? this class need better synergy in traits or weapon swap its terrible idea make legend to 1 weapon and dont let class swap weapons so you cannot use class power to 100% but only 50%

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Purple Miku.7032:

…

You don’t get it, but I still don’t understand how you’re so confused.

I’m not complaining about being unable to trait and equip gear properly, I’m complaining about all of the options being way worse by comparison than what other classes have.

Seriously, what part of it is confusing you? I’m not sure if I can simplify this any further.

Anet is in the Beta stages, and are making adjustments as we go. We’re still a month or two before HoT release, and I have full confidence in Colin’s ability to give us the best game possible.

I admit there can be a few tweaks here and there. But overall, it’s a learning experience. Revenant is new, so let the players test out builds before determining the new meta is useless. To me, it doesn’t make sense to copy and paste mechanics from existing professions. Anet wanted to think outside the box, and give us a new type of profession to mix up combat.

I swear to kitten that if this is what we’re at TWO MONTHS before full release, we’re completely kittened. Aside from the fact a game should be going gold, not having disappointing beta’s, at this time in its production lifecycle.

By the end of this weekend, the hardcore players will know for certain if the current iteration of the Revenant is garbage. So far, most signs point to “yes.”

Look, it’s only garbage if your main focus is “DPS kill it faster”. This game is meant for more than just highest damage output. Remember, you sacrifice defense when you go pure offense, hence the term Glass Cannon. We already have Thief and Mesmer burst metas for that. Players like me who can appreciate a support role will thrive. I admit that I am biased in that play style, since my main was an Infuse Monk in GW1 PvP

Give Colin a chance. The community already gave him a hard time with the Pre-Purchase wave of complaints. I think it’s time we shared a little praise for how well the game looks, and how our GW universe is moving forward.

seems like arenanet don’t even know how the game works? Then the rev skills really guys rev can pull stuff but we got guardians with better skill. Rev can also stack might (badly)we don’t really need that anymore after the warrior buff(don’t nerff it) and at last rev can heal and do other useless boons with low uptime so at the end you have created like anti necro with lots of useless utilities and no dmg at all. I really want to like your game but you make it really hard to enjoy i have ran your only 2 decent dungeons for 1.5 years now and i start to get bit fed up with you guys.. Even if you buff revs low base stats the traits and skills are so useless pve wise(maybe you could use taunt in pvp) that noone could even use them. Last words about your new hot expansion i(maybe others too) don’t want jumping or speedboost mushrooms i just want more dungeons and more endgame. hope someone read this sorry for my english

Alice.5360:

Ahahah, a LOT of traits are bad on several classes at the moment. Rangers lost the 5% vitality converted into power trait and had it replaced with 7% healing power converted to power.

Anet has no idea what they are doing.

Hey that’s a valid point, I agree with ya.

But regardless of how many problems exist with our current classes, I think it’s pretty obvious that Revenant’s current traits shown to us are much worse. If you disagree feel free to explain otherwise.

It sounds like we’re on the same team here though.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Miku is complaining that the Revenant’s traits make it bad in every role, not just DPS, right?

I actually think the traits look awesome for pvp

Rev has a lot of potential, you cant judge something will only being able to see half what it can do. Hopefully there’s a lot more weapons(and utilites for variation).

I’d like to add that the Revenant is not supposed to replace any profession on the battle field. It’s not meant to be an “end all” DPS replacement to the Warrior, or a Condi replacement to the Necro. It’s an option with a different play style and mechanics.

I know but how is that an option for pve players if you cant do anything with it ?

Pandaman.4758:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Miku is complaining that the Revenant’s traits make it bad in every role, not just DPS, right?

Nah, I’m complaining primarily because there’s not only nothing offensive oriented, but all four of these specializations have really lackluster options for everything. Even if the other two traitlines are good, the current four of them are still pretty horrible.

The weapon skills are underwhelming as well.

In PvE it looks like it’s going to be really bad. That’s the main problem that I have.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, it’s only garbage if your main focus is “DPS kill it faster”. This game is meant for more than just highest damage output. Remember, you sacrifice defense when you go pure offense, hence the term Glass Cannon. We already have Thief and Mesmer burst metas for that. Players like me who can appreciate a support role will thrive. I admit that I am biased in that play style, since my main was an Infuse Monk in GW1 PvP

Give Colin a chance. The community already gave him a hard time with the Pre-Purchase wave of complaints. I think it’s time we shared a little praise for how well the game looks, and how our GW universe is moving forward.

Why are you defining how to play the game for other people? What if all they want out of the game is high DPS? They paid for the product – they get to enjoy it how they want. The people critiquing Revenant aren’t saying take away it’s tankiness or support. They are saying open it up to more options. They are literally asking it to be more diverse, not to switch its focus. Why are against this?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think if you gear towards Condi, you can find yourself with good sustained damage. With Anet’s Confi buff recently, it has the potential to be seriously overpowered.

It is only overpowered in its attempts to commit suicide by self-afflicted conditions. Not that good in dealing condi damage to others, however (also, it really depends on there being noone with group cleanses around. Pure of voice and/or trooper runes guard ally kills over half your condi dps without even trying. That of course mean that in any bigger groups in open world pve Mallyx is completely useless. It may be a bit more useful in WvW, due to more condi flying around there

Sorin.4310:

Why are you defining how to play the game for other people? What if all they want out of the game is high DPS? They paid for the product – they get to enjoy it how they want. The people critiquing Revenant aren’t saying take away it’s tankiness or support. They are saying open it up to more options. They are literally asking it to be more diverse, not to switch its focus. Why are against this?

I think the inverse of your question can be asked to those wanting to turn it into a more offensive class as well.

Sorin.4310:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, it’s only garbage if your main focus is “DPS kill it faster”. This game is meant for more than just highest damage output. Remember, you sacrifice defense when you go pure offense, hence the term Glass Cannon. We already have Thief and Mesmer burst metas for that. Players like me who can appreciate a support role will thrive. I admit that I am biased in that play style, since my main was an Infuse Monk in GW1 PvP

Give Colin a chance. The community already gave him a hard time with the Pre-Purchase wave of complaints. I think it’s time we shared a little praise for how well the game looks, and how our GW universe is moving forward.

Why are you defining how to play the game for other people? What if all they want out of the game is high DPS? They paid for the product – they get to enjoy it how they want. The people critiquing Revenant aren’t saying take away it’s tankiness or support. They are saying open it up to more options. They are literally asking it to be more diverse, not to switch its focus. Why are against this?

We’ve seen this song and dance before in other professions. People want Zerker type damage so they can be as efficient as possible in PvE. I’m sure Anet will make balance changes to the traits because of feedback. I’m hoping we don’t go down the slippery slope of asking for more, and things getting broken along the way.

To be honest, I think people will get what they’re asking for when the Shiro stance comes out in full force. With that option pretty much guaranteed to be high DPS, the only thing you need to watch for is the re-tweaking of traits.

my god, “condi sustained damage”, really?
Even 10k-burning-damage incinerator Ele can’t keep up with raw zerk dps.
Revenant needs a good weapon and a good legend. At the moment has 3 meh weapons and 3 meh legends.

Oh and not to mention that having weaponskill share stamina with legend skills makes no sense. Should be like thief (just the opposite).

Oh, yeah, and crap traits. Also compare them to ele traits, that can change the gameplay and give huge boosts and many boons.
Revenant has almost 0 self boons.

Except all other classes can spec for at least 1 dps build and usually at least 1 tanky/support build and tons of things in between. From what I’ve seen, even when specced for full glass, Revs can’t take down people with any sort of consistency, which is surprising seeing as tons of people don’t really know their tells, animations or traits at all yet. So for a class to be specced completely for damage and have the element of surprise to have trouble taking down even other glass build, something is wrong.

There’s a reason Anet doesn’t have a “healer” class in this game. It just leads to pigeon-holing and ends up with classes that really have no viable builds other than heal/buff bot.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think if you gear towards Condi, you can find yourself with good sustained damage. With Anet’s Confi buff recently, it has the potential to be seriously overpowered.

I’ve been playing around for the past few hours trying to come up with a decent Revenant condi build and I haven’t seen anything that would be consider good sustained damage. Definitely doesn’t have the potential to be overpowered, well, not in PvE at least. Yes you can get some pretty nice torment stacks which is awesome in PvP and WvW but in PvE most of the important fights are against monsters that don’t move, you lose a lot of DPS and you lack in other conditions to make up for that loss.

EDIT: I have to agree with Miku about the trraits. There next to no definition to them. Looks more like 1 big jumbled mess than 4 distinct specializations.

If anyone thinks Rev is currently doing good sustained dps, whether it’s condi or power they are 100% playing in a very low tier of PvE/PvP where every build that is being used around them is absolutely horribly optimised.

I guess you could see how a Revs damage is good sustained compared to the Sentinals mace warrior.

Purple Miku.7032:

I couldn’t even tell which specialization was supposed to be more healing/defensive related, because all 4 specializations were filled with traits that had nothing pertaining to anything relevant in PvE. There were so few of decent traits that this class is really looking like it’s going to be weaker than necro, which says a lot.

I understand there will be 2 more, but just… how could these last two specializations make up for how absolutely terrible the current specializations are?

Thinking realistically it doesn’t look like this is going to be a good class at all. I don’t understand why there’s so much emphasis on healing allies and so little options for people who just want to focus on more offensive builds.

In the few hours I’ve played I agree 100%.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, it’s only garbage if your main focus is “DPS kill it faster”. This game is meant for more than just highest damage output. Remember, you sacrifice defense when you go pure offense, hence the term Glass Cannon. We already have Thief and Mesmer burst metas for that. Players like me who can appreciate a support role will thrive. I admit that I am biased in that play style, since my main was an Infuse Monk in GW1 PvP

Give Colin a chance. The community already gave him a hard time with the Pre-Purchase wave of complaints. I think it’s time we shared a little praise for how well the game looks, and how our GW universe is moving forward.

…Revenat is almost bad at every thing not only DPS..
tablet is incredible doll to use, it’s situational skills with incredible long cast time, so it’s almost impossible to use at the right moment. it’s incredibly hard to use for too little outcome and you can’t even combo elite with tablet movement.

self defense is also bad, cuz you don’t have blink, don’t have stealth, rite of great takes 2+ sec to cast.
you are like a warrior without endure pain and you are like a necro without death shroud.
rite of the great dwarf can simply not use for self defense, because of it’s long cast time, if you hope to survive by using this skill, it’s not happening

and the conditions, it’s out dated, the burning is almost not stackable, grand master trait, gives 3 sec of 1 stack burning for using a elite skill…please…1 stack for 3 second as a grand master…

also, necro has deathshroud skill, 2 weapons set that only use CD and full utility skills.
what about rev, 1 weapon set, 2 set of utilities all use the same energy and weapon skills have CD on top of energy..why…

lighter.2708:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Look, it’s only garbage if your main focus is “DPS kill it faster”. This game is meant for more than just highest damage output. Remember, you sacrifice defense when you go pure offense, hence the term Glass Cannon. We already have Thief and Mesmer burst metas for that. Players like me who can appreciate a support role will thrive. I admit that I am biased in that play style, since my main was an Infuse Monk in GW1 PvP

Give Colin a chance. The community already gave him a hard time with the Pre-Purchase wave of complaints. I think it’s time we shared a little praise for how well the game looks, and how our GW universe is moving forward.

…Revenat is almost bad at every thing not only DPS..
tablet is incredible doll to use, it’s situational skills with incredible long cast time, so it’s almost impossible to use at the right moment. it’s incredibly hard to use for too little outcome and you can’t even combo elite with tablet movement.

self defense is also bad, cuz you don’t have blink, don’t have stealth, rite of great takes 2+ sec to cast.
you are like a warrior without endure pain and you are like a necro without death shroud.
rite of the great dwarf can simply not use for self defense, because of it’s long cast time, if you hope to survive by using this skill, it’s not happening

and the conditions, it’s out dated, the burning is almost not stackable, grand master trait, gives 3 sec of 1 stack burning for using a elite skill…please…1 stack for 3 second as a grand master…

My goodness. One knock back away from my Ipad, and got totally obliterated simply by a Necro and Guardian duo… My goodness. My Necro doesnt get eliminated that fast and he in Cloth armor…

SMH something is broken. This just dont seem right. In full Cleric gear as well.

Astralporing.1957:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think if you gear towards Condi, you can find yourself with good sustained damage. With Anet’s Confi buff recently, it has the potential to be seriously overpowered.

It is only overpowered in its attempts to commit suicide by self-afflicted conditions. Not that good in dealing condi damage to others, however (also, it really depends on there being noone with group cleanses around.

This.

I made the assumption that a full set of sinister gear and all other things that would stack condition damage and duration would work in my favor…. and well it doesn’t.

Your self inflicted conditions last longer than your applied resistances and you end up hurting yourself more than you hurt any enemies.

4 trait lines without anything good for high-level PvE in this game… We knew that weeks ago though.

Let’s cross our fingers for Shiro and the elite spec to be awesome.

Also super lol at telling Miku l2p and all the badsplaining in this thread from people who think support only means healing.

I have to agree and I don’t think it’s a l2p issue. Most other classes have all sorts of damage modifiers or really great damage traits in the non-power trait lines. Revenant, on the other hand, is very underwhelming in this regard. Either Anet needs to work on that or Shiro has to be REALLY kitten good to make up for this.

If Shiro does all of the things that people are saying he will have to do to fix this class, then Shiro is going to have to be the single most OP spec in this entire game…

So far I feel revenant traits and weapon skills are really bad. Why do we have to select a trait that focuses on a particular legend. I know ele has similar specific traits but they can use ALL the atune ALL the time. And rev weapon skills look so bad I can’t even say anything. They definitely need weapon swaping. It’s not abt being high skill cap champ. I think they are plain bad. Hope the final version will be much better else I won’t bother making one

This explains why I spent the past 3 hours picking Revenant after Revenant up off the sandy ground in the Silverwastes.

Seriously, there should be an achievement for Revenant Revives. I’d be at tier 12!

So far, not impressed at all with the class. Looking back at the latest patch and the Necro/Thief debacle, can’t say I’m surprised by the Rev. Incompetent balance team is incompetent.

Purple Miku.7032:

I couldn’t even tell which specialization was supposed to be more healing/defensive related, because all 4 specializations were filled with traits that had nothing pertaining to anything relevant in PvE. There were so few of decent traits that this class is really looking like it’s going to be weaker than necro, which says a lot.

I understand there will be 2 more, but just… how could these last two specializations make up for how absolutely terrible the current specializations are?

Thinking realistically it doesn’t look like this is going to be a good class at all. I don’t understand why there’s so much emphasis on healing allies and so little options for people who just want to focus on more offensive builds.

Eh, PvE peasants…

Because Revenant lacks all those damage modifiers, it’s actually amazing. Most traits (apart from Ventari ones) have some thought besides “20% more dmg when X”, they actually feel like traits or talents, not kittening level upgrade.

Before you say something:

1. I don’t and won’t care about PvE at it’s current rotten state. You have your DPS speedruning, I have my fun.

2. Neither you or me know anything about HoT PvE.

The traits are kind of weak, if you ask me. Many feel like weaker versions of things that already exist. I could go through a list and show you traits that are almost twice as good on other classes for most of them, but I’ll spare the wall of text. The grand masters are very weak, and not at all build defining. They look like they were designed for the old system, before things got merged and buffed to high heaven.

Base damage and mobility is also terrible.

Rym.1469:

Purple Miku.7032:

I couldn’t even tell which specialization was supposed to be more healing/defensive related, because all 4 specializations were filled with traits that had nothing pertaining to anything relevant in PvE. There were so few of decent traits that this class is really looking like it’s going to be weaker than necro, which says a lot.

I understand there will be 2 more, but just… how could these last two specializations make up for how absolutely terrible the current specializations are?

Thinking realistically it doesn’t look like this is going to be a good class at all. I don’t understand why there’s so much emphasis on healing allies and so little options for people who just want to focus on more offensive builds.

Eh, PvE peasants…

Because Revenant lacks all those damage modifiers, it’s actually amazing. Most traits (apart from Ventari ones) have some thought besides “20% more dmg when X”, they actually feel like traits or talents, not kittening level upgrade.

Before you say something:

1. I don’t and won’t care about PvE at it’s current rotten state. You have your DPS speedruning, I have my fun.

2. Neither you or me know anything about HoT PvE.

are you trying to say that rev is amazing in pvp? because it’s obviously not..

Rym.1469:

2. Neither you or me know anything about HoT PvE.

If Revenant is any indication of things to come, PvE is going to get quite interesting.

Julie Yann.5379:

Rym.1469:

2. Neither you or me know anything about HoT PvE.

If Revenant is any indication of things to come, PvE is going to get quite interesting.

I wouldn’t call spamming a button to move an in-game rock through the party to heal them interesting. On the plus side, if these forums are any indication, there’s plenty of folks who want to do the boring work of healing.

I’ll never understand how people are so against doing damage in a game built around an incredible combat system.

I’m not going to reply directly to Rym because that post is likely getting deleted, but I’ll say those: the meta isn’t “only DPS.” It’s DPS gear, but the weapons, utilities, traits, and combos used are a mix of DPS, support, and control.

You know, the trinity we were promised.

timmyf.1490:

Julie Yann.5379:

Rym.1469:

2. Neither you or me know anything about HoT PvE.

If Revenant is any indication of things to come, PvE is going to get quite interesting.

I wouldn’t call spamming a button to move an in-game rock through the party to heal them interesting. On the plus side, if these forums are any indication, there’s plenty of folks who want to do the boring work of healing.

I’ll never understand how people are so against doing damage in a game built around an incredible combat system.

I wasn’t talking about healing specifically but if this ridiculous amount of healing is required I am guessing that we will have fewer cheap 1 shots from bosses and more constant overwhelming DPS which should make for some fun encounters.

Edit: Also, looking at other profession’s masteries, support and CC roles might get more importance in HoT.

My opinion differs, Julie. I prefer bursty damage I have to avoid by working with my team. It requires more attention and knowledge of enemies and mechanics.

Edit to your edit: support and CC are of vital importance now.

Revenant must have a viable damage spec. I’m not sure why anyone would argue against this. If the only thing revenant is good for is support then it’s not going to be all that popular a class in the PVE scene. In order to make up for what is lacking in the other traitlines, Shiro will have to be very OP and I’m not so sure that’s a good idea. Either that or Anet will have to think of a way to put that extra damage somewhere…

1. No weapon-specific traits.
2. Cannot trait for cooldown reduction on anything.
3. All utility skills are “legend” skills — i.e., no shouts, no traps, nothing at all to categorize them in the current rune sets.
4. They’re all very boring and lack any sort of nuance. Things like “increase poison duration” and “increase torment damage” are not inspired. Yuck.

And those are just my problems with the skills and traits. I won’t go into the rest of the major, major issues with the class in this thread.

timmyf.1490:

My opinion differs, Julie. I prefer bursty damage I have to avoid by working with my team. It requires more attention and knowledge of enemies and mechanics.

Edit to your edit: support and CC are of vital importance now.

CC is pretty much useless except for a very few encounters. Support other than might stacks and the occasional wall or stability is also not really needed. PvE as it is now is pretty boring especially once you memorized the fight. Nuking a boss in under 30 seconds is not what I would call engaging.

I’m quite comfortable with playing anything, let it be dps, condition specs or support, but the problem with revenant is that it just sucks so horribly in every aspect of the game.

For pve it just doesn’t have enough damage. Or maybe I should say that it has so little damage, I wouldn’t wonder if it actually healed the mobs.

For pvp and also wvw it’s just food. Revenant has absolutely no defensive mechanisms whatsoever. It also desperately needs some stunbreaks, I really do not understand why there is a stunbreak on a skill with almost THREE second cast time. Many and many of the skills have insanely long cast time and you don’t need to care only about energy management, but also cooldowns (This is just ridiculous.). So yeah, revenant in pvp is just bad.

The healing of Ventari is decent, I would say, but even if you put cleric gear with dolyak runes on, you just melt to everything anyway.

I do get Shiro is not out yet, but I honestly cannot imagine there’s going to be any synergy between the legends we have so far. Not like there’s any now, anyway.

Edit: Oh yeah and due to having both cooldowns and energy management and no weapon swap, you’re going to end up just using those AA’s that hit like a wet noodle half of the time.

Julie Yann.5379:

timmyf.1490:

My opinion differs, Julie. I prefer bursty damage I have to avoid by working with my team. It requires more attention and knowledge of enemies and mechanics.

Edit to your edit: support and CC are of vital importance now.

CC is pretty much useless except for a very few encounters. Support other than might stacks and the occasional wall or stability is also not really needed. PvE as it is now is pretty boring especially once you memorized the fight. Nuking a boss in under 30 seconds is not what I would call engaging.

This is true if you pretend that fury, aegis, dodge, vigor, evade, blind, CC-to-strip-defiance, banners, Spotter+Frost Spirit, projectile denial, and the occasional protection don’t exist.

I probably missed a bunch too.

timmyf.1490:

Julie Yann.5379:

timmyf.1490:

My opinion differs, Julie. I prefer bursty damage I have to avoid by working with my team. It requires more attention and knowledge of enemies and mechanics.

Edit to your edit: support and CC are of vital importance now.

CC is pretty much useless except for a very few encounters. Support other than might stacks and the occasional wall or stability is also not really needed. PvE as it is now is pretty boring especially once you memorized the fight. Nuking a boss in under 30 seconds is not what I would call engaging.

This is true if you pretend that fury, aegis, dodge, vigor, evade, blind, CC-to-strip-defiance, banners, Spotter+Frost Spirit, projectile denial, and the occasional protection don’t exist.

I probably missed a bunch too.

dodge? not a support skill
evade? another word for dodge
vigor? not needed if you know when to dodge
ageis? not needed if you know when to dodge
Blind? not needed if you know when to dodge
protection? not needed if you know when to dodge and useless vs cheap 1 shot mechanics anyways
CC to strip defiance? Boss usually dies before that happens

What are banners for? more DPS
What is fury for? more DPS
Spotter/frost spirit? more DPS
projectile denial? I did say wall
The extent of relevant support in current PvE is MOAR DPS skills and wall.

But we are getting off topic, sorry for derailing the thread.

Julie Yann.5379:

timmyf.1490:

Julie Yann.5379:

timmyf.1490:

My opinion differs, Julie. I prefer bursty damage I have to avoid by working with my team. It requires more attention and knowledge of enemies and mechanics.

Edit to your edit: support and CC are of vital importance now.

CC is pretty much useless except for a very few encounters. Support other than might stacks and the occasional wall or stability is also not really needed. PvE as it is now is pretty boring especially once you memorized the fight. Nuking a boss in under 30 seconds is not what I would call engaging.

This is true if you pretend that fury, aegis, dodge, vigor, evade, blind, CC-to-strip-defiance, banners, Spotter+Frost Spirit, projectile denial, and the occasional protection don’t exist.

I probably missed a bunch too.

dodge? not a support skill
evade? another word for dodge
vigor? not needed if you know when to dodge
ageis? not needed if you know when to dodge
Blind? not needed if you know when to dodge
protection? not needed if you know when to dodge and useless vs cheap 1 shot mechanics anyways
CC to strip defiance? Boss usually dies before that happens

What are banners for? more DPS
What is fury for? more DPS
Spotter/frost spirit? more DPS
projectile denial? I did say wall
The extent of relevant support in current PvE is MOAR DPS skills and wall.

But we are getting off topic, sorry for derailing the thread.

This is some of the stupidest comments I’ve ever witnessed when it comes to this arguement. Honestly.

You have seriously no understanding of PvE what so ever.

You give me the impression that the things that are defensive in nature aren’t really supporting just because you can dodge?

This is what your attitude with your previous comments makes me think.

Mmm. So if none of that is support, what is support? Just healing? Ventari tablet woosh woosh and PvE is magically fixed?

timmyf.1490:

Mmm. So if none of that is support, what is support? Just healing? Ventari tablet woosh woosh and PvE is magically fixed?

People can’t break away from the WoW trinity mindset.

It’s sad, but it’s true.

IF I CAN’T STAND HERE AND HEAL DAMAGE THAT YOU’VE FACE TANKED IT’S NOT SUPPORT HURRR DURRR.

Pls.

Just, pls.