Guild Wars 2

Hi forum !

I am quite new to revenant. I rather play druid, and I am not an experienced player.
I rediscovered it few days ago and tried it for sPvP (what I mainly do). I have read the last patch and it seems it improves both ventari and jalis skills (maybe not the taunt one). I tried to play a ventari bunker and found it rather weak (I think ventari + shiro is the best thing I can do now since otherwise I do no damage or i am too squishy, so I played a kind of raoming healer / +1 dps to be really usefull to my team).

After having found that it did not fit my playstyle (I like bunkering soooo much, even if death is the outcomes), I tried a bit Jalis.

Since I am not a good revenant – and then still play badly -, I would like to understand why lots of people on forums and websites consider that Jalis is not an option on sPvP.

- Vengeful hammer has been improved and has a good synergy with Focused Siphoning (can do pretty sustain damages, and have decent survivability against 2+ enemies).
- Forced Engagement is a 10s interrupt and taunt (ok, still has a huge energy cost),
- Inspiring reinforcement is a good way to get stab if you can’t get it on dodges, or even to give it for teammates for helping them stomp, or even maybe to put weakness,
- Rite of the Great Dwarf has good support ability, nearly spammable, with -50% damage and condi damage on team mates if traited.

I tried to play a sword-shiled / mace-sword (for low cd blocks mainly) rev with glint and jalis trated with devastation, retribution and herald and was pretty impressed by the damage / survivability ratio.

(I traited devastation x/3/3, Retribution 2/2/2, and Herald x/2/3. “x” being a choice between two obvious traits).

I tried several amulets from barbarian to viper (through berserker and lots other). It depends on what you favor most, and what role you want to improve.

So, could I have an experienced revenant explain me why Jalis is not suited for sPvP ? It seems everyone focus on Ventari. I is a sincere question as i am a recent revenant user…

Thanks for replies ! =)

V.

I normally run Glint/Jalis specifically for the Vengeful hammers and Forced Engagement.
Inspiring Reinforcement is good for stomps, but its a little slow to give stab.

A great combo is Unrelenting Assault from main hand sword with vengeful hammers.
Compared to shiro, I prefer the sustain/flexibility with Jalis.

Oh ! Thanks for the answer !
So I was not completely wrong. Some people runs Jalis. It seems it is ignored on forums. Do you have nice links in order to understand better how it works ?
By the way, if you could give me some good advices in game to improve my revenant playstyle, I would be really happy ! =)
How do you gear (amu, sigils and runes) ? What “roles” do you mostly play ? What weapon do you play ? I am still struggling against this class which is new for me…

jalis meant to be bunker on point.
the idea of stability, cc, and aoe dmg around you combine with dmg reduction on paper sound nice.

problems:
RotgD – cost 40 nrg last for 5 sec – when you use it? on team fight to have 5 sec burst dmg while taking 50% less. bunker use it as breakstun and to handle condition burst.
so how you handle conditions burst…. you cannot spam it as its cost 40 nrg so after 5 sec conditions will kill you
VH – drain you nrg so when you use it? in 1v2 it can heal you a bit. but what if you fight versus melee and range you wont hit them both… so mainly its add little bit more dmg
FE – they reduce nrg at the cost of cd. so taunt make the enemy attack you. as bunkering they will attack you which can be blocked, reflect and cost too much for a bunker to try it. so mainly use it in team fight when you not focused
IR – the main problem is the stability doesnt proc right away and boom you r cc. so again mainly use to give team stability on point.
heal skill – the main source of retaliation which is not like guard who can have longer duration of it. and also cleanse 3 conditions in 30 sec cd…

so you have no condi cleanse almost, weird aoe stability (the dodge even more reliable) , and low aoe dmg versus melee. and high cost elite skill

the reason why to use it is when you condi bomb swap the it use the elite and VH to gain 70% dmg reduction from condi. (on my calculation it was 78% dont know how)
for 5 sec . use heal skill and swap back to use another heal skill to run away….

ventari – also ppl not use it beside me why
no break stun mainly and high micro managing which needs team communication or knowledge as they need to fight near the tablet
in pvp on paper should be easy just to fight on point. but ppl chase off point so its harder for you.
if you get focus you dont have escape ability so you must predict enemy moves

I understand some of your points, but don’t get others :
- Yeah, 40 energy on elite Dwarf is not completely spamable. But if you gear with high vitality ? If you block between (sword 4 is only 10 energy) ? I you dodge between ? (if you get more dodges from sigils). What class / build can load an unblockable condi burst ? Necro marks are not “that” bursty… I guess you play in a higher rank, so you will get the answer, particularly on necros.
- Stab is not direct. But two possibilities are coming. First, someone is interupting you: in this case, you just lost the first few microseconds and start it again. If the enemy is rezing, so stab is not the emergency in the first second, but on the last ones. And stab may be useless against 1v1 for certain classes (elem in first thought).
- VH against range + melee ? Yeah, you are right, it heals and strikes less. But you still get the -20% against condi and direct damage. And lifesteal if traited for dobble healings with devastation.
- FE while bunkering ? Yeah, I don’t use it that much. I rather use it for allies who get focused to let them breath a bit more. But, however, taunt force you to autoattack, no ? And the ennemy is slowed. So at least, you force your opponent to auto-attack, and not to load its special burst combos. (But yeah, it is energy expensive, i know that). I did not know it could be reflected. Never happened to me. Who would be mad enough to reflect a melee revenant ?
- With retribution x/2/2, retaliation is mainly loaded by dodge rolls (and you proc it for sure), particularly if you have boon duration with glint (with high boon duration, with right amulets, you can get 4s retal on dodge rolls). The healing skill is quite poor compared to a 2-4s retal on 10 or less seconds (depends on hits and sigils).
- Dwarf heal skill is 3 condi clear with 30s cd… but you have another legend with 30s heal skill whatever you spec. So basically, you have a 15s healing skills if you swap legend right. Yeah, I know it can be messy, particularly if you beggin with it like me, but I don’t find it neither broken nor weak. Glint heal can help you manage condi too (and against focus and bursts), so it is rather a 15s cd against condi plus RotgD. What if you add sigils and runes ? (I think of rune of charisma, which synergizes with glint). I thought about staff for 2 more condi cleanses, but the damages are too low if I play a defensive amulet.

I did not get the last paragraph about ventari… sorry, I am not a native english speaker…

I think you are right, I just push you a bit more to get more precise answers…! I hope you don’t take it badly.

I thought about Jalis in order to find a bunker counter against the kitteng necro-thief combo you encounter in solo-Q. Having -50% against direct and condi damage was sexy…

… on the paper, as you said. But as I am not a good revenant player, I don’t know for sure now why I lose and why I win. This is still theory.

Varyla.1592:

So, could I have an experienced revenant explain me why Jalis is not suited for sPvP ? It seems everyone focus on Ventari.

Jalis doesn’t increase your survability one atom, and replaces either Shiro or Glint, both of them are way better providing either sustain tools or heavy pressure to the target. Also, Retribution -which sinergizes with Jalis-was already inferior to Invocation in PvP before the patch that butchered that traitline in October of 2016.

Noone focus on Ventari in PvP; maybe someone is using it -because I saw it in a few videos-, but I never saw them in person in the whole Season 6. Theoretically Ventari could have some use as suport and/or control point holder… The problem is that you won’t be better in that role than a Druid or a Tempest, and pure bruisers as Warriors can easily equal your sustain while providing x4 the damage output (a Berserker can fight you at 0 risk while using a zerker amulet).

Jalis doesn’t have a stunbreak and the stability skill is too clunky to use.

Unfortunately, Jalis doesn’t bring a lot to the table outside of theory crafting…

In actual play, RotGD doesn’t help you survive at all.
Inspiring Reinforcement is really only useful for securing stomps, but as a rev you should just be cleaving 99% of the time anyway, since it’s just about the only thing we do better than all of the other classes.
Chain taunt is good, but expensive, so you can’t punish someone while they’re taunted, nor will you have the energy to taunt after a burst—unless you like burst and then swap to Jalis just to taunt. (But by having Jalis in the first place you’ve already sacrificed a big portion of your burst potential.)
And Vengeful Hammer’s damage is still a joke + anyone with reflect will laugh while you kill yourself with it.

But probably the biggest problem with Jalis is lack of a real stunbreak (RotGD’s energy cost is unrealistic to count on.) And since you’re using Jalis, you’re probably using Ret instead of Invo, so you miss out on legend swap stunbreaking too.

Jalis just doesn’t have a great place in PvP… It doesn’t put out enough damage to kill anyone competent and doesn’t provide enough defense to let you hold a point by yourself. And you’re sacrificing all of your mobility by taking it.

Buran.3796:

Varyla.1592:

So, could I have an experienced revenant explain me why Jalis is not suited for sPvP ? It seems everyone focus on Ventari.

Jalis doesn’t increase your survability one atom, and replaces either Shiro or Glint, both of them are way better providing either sustain tools or heavy pressure to the target. Also, Retribution -which sinergizes with Jalis-was already inferior to Invocation in PvP before the patch that butchered that traitline in October of 2016.

Noone focus on Ventari in PvP; maybe someone is using it -because I saw it in a few videos-, but I never saw them in person in the whole Season 6. Theoretically Ventari could have some use as suport and/or control point holder… The problem is that you won’t be better in that role than a Druid or a Tempest, and pure bruisers as Warriors can easily equal your sustain while providing x4 the damage output (a Berserker can fight you at 0 risk while using a zerker amulet).

druid is better at bunkering a point
ventari can hold a point in almost any 1v1 and some 1v2 without kiting around and losing the point. but the main idea is support, cc, boons as the ele.
ele is much intuitive to play versus the ventari but ventari heal much higher imo with low cd skills

Exciton.8942:

Jalis doesn’t have a stunbreak and the stability skill is too clunky to use.

Jalis does have a stunbreak.

narcx.3570:

Unfortunately, Jalis doesn’t bring a lot to the table outside of theory crafting…

In actual play, RotGD doesn’t help you survive at all.
Inspiring Reinforcement is really only useful for securing stomps, but as a rev you should just be cleaving 99% of the time anyway, since it’s just about the only thing we do better than all of the other classes.
Chain taunt is good, but expensive, so you can’t punish someone while they’re taunted, nor will you have the energy to taunt after a burst—unless you like burst and then swap to Jalis just to taunt. (But by having Jalis in the first place you’ve already sacrificed a big portion of your burst potential.)
And Vengeful Hammer’s damage is still a joke + anyone with reflect will laugh while you kill yourself with it.

But probably the biggest problem with Jalis is lack of a real stunbreak (RotGD’s energy cost is unrealistic to count on.) And since you’re using Jalis, you’re probably using Ret instead of Invo, so you miss out on legend swap stunbreaking too.

Jalis just doesn’t have a great place in PvP… It doesn’t put out enough damage to kill anyone competent and doesn’t provide enough defense to let you hold a point by yourself. And you’re sacrificing all of your mobility by taking it.

There is so much wrong with this post, but one more than the rest. If Vengeful hammer is still a joke, how are you killing yourself? Also, how is an unblockable ability being reflected?

Once I subbed Jalis for Shiro, there was no need to go back. Some additional minor tweaks to Jalis should still definitely be looked at, but there is a lot to work with even in a power/condi/or support build with Jalis.

messiah.1908:

ventari can hold a point in almost any 1v1 and some 1v2 without kiting around and losing the point. but the main idea is support, cc, boons as the ele.

That may be true vs low level players, I can’t see it working vs almost any class played by a top dog. And as you said even in the bunker/support role Druids and Tempest are better, so no team will take a Ventari Rev to fill that purpose over the others.

There will be a tournament in June hosted by Jebro; let’s wait to see how many Jalis and Ventaris show up then.

Buran.3796:

messiah.1908:

ventari can hold a point in almost any 1v1 and some 1v2 without kiting around and losing the point. but the main idea is support, cc, boons as the ele.

That may be true vs low level players, I can’t see it working vs almost any class played by a top dog. And as you said even in the bunker/support role Druids and Tempest are better, so no team will take a Ventari Rev to fill that purpose over the others.

There will be a tournament in June hosted by Jebro; let’s wait to see how many Jalis and Ventaris show up then.

you wont see ventari. just to clarify i still stand that ventari can support (not bunker) even better than ele.
they both needs good team support and awareness. but ele is more easy to play and learn as support role as its rotations are easy and strait forward. while rev more hard tricky but yield more

i bet if top dog will try it they might find some use

Could people who play Jalis or have ideas about it could post their builds or ideas more precisely ? I don’t talk about meta, but ideas. And it is better to play a build you manage well than playing the meta sadly.

@Narcx :
- What do you mean by reflecting VH ? Do you mean having retaliation ? Don’t forget you can stop it whenever you want it… If you take care of that there is no problem with “reflect”. I use it for unblockable lifestealing, and it gives a pretty regen.
- VH + glint protection gives -53% reduction damage plus -20% reduction on condis (the problem I feel with jalis is the absence of condi cleanses). And I don’t speak about traits that reduces it more. It is easy to stack protection with glint if geared clever. What I fear with Jalis is rather the lack of condi clean and the cost of -50% condi.

@Buran : no one focus on ventari on pvp. There are no revs in pvp. I am talking about forums and people who try to find a way to create builds on an out of meta class.

I understand Druid and Elem are better to keep points, and that would be an explanation. You just do a job others does better.

@Pirrial : I agree with you. But do you have ideas about it ? I personnally feel the same, there are stuff to do, but I still don’t know what and I still struggle with it. I don’t exppect from a bunker to do loads of damage, and I think Jalis can support a lot. Your survivability is based on launching the right skills at the right moments. I also thought of a condi based build to get crits from VH and proc torment. But managing energy is a difficult issue with the elite skill. So conditions are a problem.

@ventari : Ventari is not that much played in pvp, but revenant is not in general. On forums, there are more discussions about it than about Jalis, that is all.

And it is not because people do not play it that there is no issue about it. Meta builds appeared from underused classes.

you want build which was tested with jalis so here it is
support role
pros :
good with healing and dmg reductions , 33% protection 50% from rotgd, 20% vh
cons:
conditions dmg but with good awareness and skills rotations you can handle most builds
2 sigils which remove conditions, healing skill which remove 3, elite with reduce dmg by 50% and vh another 20%, rune which reduce duration by 25% and start with more hp.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemnXNmNSqJzJR/kNlsgyoS4Q5UJYrMsklZlRNgEaYNjOKxO6q7G-TZxGABK8AAWZ/B7LDAwpAwsjAAA

other than that i dont see sustain dmg using jalis as bunker

Thanks ! So you use Jalis + ventari.
I will think about that.

with jalis you wanna take it easy with nrg skills
try to land weakness as much as possible which reduce dmg by 50%
put protection which reduce dmg by 33%

this way you can build nrg to use elite and vh when needed to handle conditions dmg for 5 sec

very useful in team fight where the split is 1-4 mid. as you can start with iR to put stability and weakness on point. elite which reducd dmg by 50% for 5 sec and protection aoe another 33% switch to ventari and build nrg for the healing
if you team focus fire they will take less dmg for 5 and can kill fast not worrying about support much

messiah.1908:

jalis meant to be bunker on point.

problems:
RotgD – cost 40 nrg last for 5 sec – when you use it? on team fight to have 5 sec burst dmg while taking 50% less. bunker use it as breakstun and to handle condition burst.
so how you handle conditions burst…. you cannot spam it as its cost 40 nrg so after 5 sec conditions will kill you

Correction. RotgD costs 50(!) energy but your point still stands. It’s the most expensive stunbreak on Rev. To put it in perspective, if you switch to Jalis and RotgD IMMEDIATELY, your legend cool down will be up before you have enough energy to use it again. And that’s IF you don’t spend energy on anything else and just wait for it to build up. This means it’s better to take invocation for the stunbreak on swap than to take retribution, and rely on a random short duration stability on evade with ICD.

This is a pretty clear design flaw as Inspiring Reinforcement doesn’t give you stability instantly so you have to wait what seems like 1.5 seconds in order to get that stability you asked for.

To answer OP, Jalis is good to mess around with against niche build, especially cleaving minion master necros. Shiro’s Reposting Shadows is more energy efficient(30 energy vs 50), instant(RotgD’s stunbreak is instant but the effect occurs at the end of the cast), is an evade, and refunds you 25 endurance for more dodges. Basically, the idea of actively mitigating damage with Shiro is currently better than Jalis.

Jalis Elite is 40 energy since the up.
I have done several games with Jalis and Ventari, and Ventari is far more efficient in term of tankiness. Switching to Jalis reduces your ability to survive compared to Ventari.
It is not necessarily due to stunbreaks, in my opinion. The Elite should be anticipated and not used after the burst has started. It is best used in team fight and not when bunkering alone. It may be good for 2v2. In 1v2 or 1v3, you still take too much damages. Keeping energy for blocks and evades is better.
I have tried Shiro + Ventari, and it is the best I found. Better for disengagement and more spike damage. And the heal is hard to interupt and gives you enought survivability for Ventari to be up.

Varyla.1592:

Jalis Elite is 40 energy since the up.
I have done several games with Jalis and Ventari, and Ventari is far more efficient in term of tankiness. Switching to Jalis reduces your ability to survive compared to Ventari.
It is not necessarily due to stunbreaks, in my opinion. The Elite should be anticipated and not used after the burst has started. It is best used in team fight and not when bunkering alone. It may be good for 2v2. In 1v2 or 1v3, you still take too much damages. Keeping energy for blocks and evades is better.
I have tried Shiro + Ventari, and it is the best I found. Better for disengagement and more spike damage. And the heal is hard to interupt and gives you enought survivability for Ventari to be up.

I stand corrected. I didn’t realize the skill was split in WvW/sPvP.

Varyla.1592:

Jalis Elite is 40 energy since the up.
I have done several games with Jalis and Ventari, and Ventari is far more efficient in term of tankiness. Switching to Jalis reduces your ability to survive compared to Ventari.
It is not necessarily due to stunbreaks, in my opinion. The Elite should be anticipated and not used after the burst has started. It is best used in team fight and not when bunkering alone. It may be good for 2v2. In 1v2 or 1v3, you still take too much damages. Keeping energy for blocks and evades is better.
I have tried Shiro + Ventari, and it is the best I found. Better for disengagement and more spike damage. And the heal is hard to interupt and gives you enought survivability for Ventari to be up.

but how you handle condition bomb with shiro?

Varyla.1592:

Jalis Elite is 40 energy since the up.
I have done several games with Jalis and Ventari, and Ventari is far more efficient in term of tankiness. Switching to Jalis reduces your ability to survive compared to Ventari.
It is not necessarily due to stunbreaks, in my opinion. The Elite should be anticipated and not used after the burst has started. It is best used in team fight and not when bunkering alone. It may be good for 2v2. In 1v2 or 1v3, you still take too much damages. Keeping energy for blocks and evades is better.
I have tried Shiro + Ventari, and it is the best I found. Better for disengagement and more spike damage. And the heal is hard to interupt and gives you enought survivability for Ventari to be up.

Shiro/Ventari seems kind of counter productive… It’s like 1/2 of the +1/decap game and 1/2 of the bunker/teamfight at mid game. I would think it’d be better going Glint/Vent or Glint/Shiro to double down on one or the other.

Maybe a new post should be created about revenant bunker builds…

@tuvok : no prob, I did not know it was only spvp.

@Messiah : you stay in Ventari. With staff and ventari, you can clean up easily. Blind on heal / blocks / evades helps you mitigating. You can block and clean at the same time. And you can clean really fast. I added some sigils to proc (one which cleans on strike, one which transfers on crits). I did not have any problem, but I only encountered one condi burst with 6 altérations. You can clean them nearly instantly with staff 4 on light field and ventari’s clean.
It is 5s CD for the 3 alterations clean, more for staff. But don’t forget that you have alacrity which reduces CDs of blocks and skills. Expensive, yes, but it worked this time. You need, again, to anticipate. If you see a condi necro coming, then build some energy to be able to counter the pressure.
I think it is alacrity which makes Ventari more tanky than Jalis. It makes your blocks up more often.

@Narcx : not that much. Or so I feel. If I go shiro / glint, then no bunker. That is not my goal.
Glint Ventari does not deal much damages in my opinion. Impossible odds is good for finishing ennemies when you ally has started a burst.
I fact, I play with the Rune of Altruism. It gives fury and power on healing skill. With Facet of nature activated, it is nearly perma fury. With the traits on staff, I get regen and rapidity with orbs. With bolster fortification, you have perma protection on heal with Facet of Nature. So most of glint’s boons, you can load them. The difference is the radius : the radius of your boons is limited to the point. Just tell your team the support is mainly on the point. So you still go for a decent support, which goes with the healings, and not alternatively with them. I mean, you don’t have 10s healings, 10s boons. You have them at the same time.

In fact I feel that, sometimes, helping to put down an enemy is better support than loading tons of heals and boons. When you fight 2 people, a killing means -50% damages. Strike at the right time, when you have an opening. On one match, I did that with a thief who stayed in the area. We were killing machines. Activate Facet of nature, lauch your shiro heal, go with sword AA on impossible odds, and the ennemy is forced to defend for 10s. Just keep some blocks up in case something is going wrong to let ventari’s CD be up.

If you need to travel fast, you have access to Swiftness with facet of nature and Superspeed with shiro. If you need to disengage, swap shiro and evade back. Staff 5 helps too. You can’t disengage easily with Ventari/glint. So you can support where it is needed, and stay alive.

@Varlya – i know ventari cleasne it can cleanse 6 condition but cost about 50 nrg so its not spammable. and versus mesmer/necro you will have to disengage to build more nrg thus leaving the point uncontested.
the ability to build up nrg comes from mallyx who proc resistance (versus necro cover it up with facet of nature boons) and than you can switch to ventari to cleasne and build nrg meanwhile you taking no condi dmg.
with shiro you just cant. the heal skill can be blocked although it can give nice healing . the only thing shiro gives is escape abilities

messiah.1908:

you want build which was tested with jalis so here it is
support role
pros :
good with healing and dmg reductions , 33% protection 50% from rotgd, 20% vh
cons:
conditions dmg but with good awareness and skills rotations you can handle most builds
2 sigils which remove conditions, healing skill which remove 3, elite with reduce dmg by 50% and vh another 20%, rune which reduce duration by 25% and start with more hp.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemnXNmNSqJzJR/kNlsgyoS4Q5UJYrMsklZlRNgEaYNjOKxO6q7G-TZxGABK8AAWZ/B7LDAwpAwsjAAA

other than that i dont see sustain dmg using jalis as bunker

Stop thinking in terms of bunker and think in terms of support. Your job would be to support your team with damage reduction, heals, cleanses, and cc. With all of that, the combination of Jalis and Ventari is the better duo imo.

Varyla.1592:

@Pirrial : I agree with you. But do you have ideas about it ? I personnally feel the same, there are stuff to do, but I still don’t know what and I still struggle with it. I don’t exppect from a bunker to do loads of damage, and I think Jalis can support a lot. Your survivability is based on launching the right skills at the right moments. I also thought of a condi based build to get crits from VH and proc torment. But managing energy is a difficult issue with the elite skill. So conditions are a problem.

.

I don’t use Jalis as a bunker. Builds I have with Jalis:

Jalis/Glint-Power build
Jalis/Ventari-Support
Jalis/Mallyx-Tanky build, it’s not going to bunker
Jalis/Mallyx-Condition build

Pyriall.1683:

Stop thinking in terms of bunker and think in terms of support. Your job would be to support your team with damage reduction, heals, cleanses, and cc. With all of that, the combination of Jalis and Ventari is the better duo imo.

Glint offers much more group damage reduction than Jalis does—while still giving your group might and fury. I get that people want to not take Glint so they can be different, but it’s just too good not to take.

“Glint offers much more group damage reduction than Jalis does—while still giving your group might and fury. I get that people want to not take Glint so they can be different, but it’s just too good not to take.”

Explain me that ? How do you get -50% direct and condi damage to your group and weakness in zone with glint ?

All that glint offers is -33% direct damage with protection. You don’t get more than that.

Pyriall.1683:

messiah.1908:

you want build which was tested with jalis so here it is
support role
pros :
good with healing and dmg reductions , 33% protection 50% from rotgd, 20% vh
cons:
conditions dmg but with good awareness and skills rotations you can handle most builds
2 sigils which remove conditions, healing skill which remove 3, elite with reduce dmg by 50% and vh another 20%, rune which reduce duration by 25% and start with more hp.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemnXNmNSqJzJR/kNlsgyoS4Q5UJYrMsklZlRNgEaYNjOKxO6q7G-TZxGABK8AAWZ/B7LDAwpAwsjAAA

other than that i dont see sustain dmg using jalis as bunker

Stop thinking in terms of bunker and think in terms of support. Your job would be to support your team with damage reduction, heals, cleanses, and cc. With all of that, the combination of Jalis and Ventari is the better duo imo.

jalis mainly theme is dmg reduction and dmg reduction is bunker theme . the stability is weird and cost too much and the taunt is reflectable and slow not pierce so clone, pet usually get hit instead
maybe used in pve and wvw but unusable in pvp
now ventari main theme is support through heals

Varyla.1592:

“Glint offers much more group damage reduction than Jalis does—while still giving your group might and fury. I get that people want to not take Glint so they can be different, but it’s just too good not to take.”

Explain me that ? How do you get -50% direct and condi damage to your group and weakness in zone with glint ?

All that glint offers is -33% direct damage with protection. You don’t get more than that.

Jalis gives you 50% reduction for 5 seconds, which you can use twice if that’s literally all you’re doing except auto attacking and evading.

Glint gives you 33% indefinitely, + AoE Weakness for Glancing Blows (50% damage reduction), + AoE Chill, + AoE Blind, + AoE Knockdown, while not using up all your energy so you can still rotate blocks and cc’s from your weapon skills.

And that’s without even getting into the whole meta argument of giving your team might/fury and contributing offensively is going to make the other team play more defensively and thus do less overall damage.

>Jalis

+Slight self damage/condi-damage reduction from Hammers
+AoE RotGD to mitigate bursts
+Pulsing Stability field

-Tanking Condis isn’t better than cleansing them
-Soothing Stone cleanses after healing
-Expensive energy costs
-Forced Enaggement is garbage and Hammers could be canceled out from terrain issues
-Low mobility

>Glint

+Provides AoE Might, Fury, Swiftness, Regen and Protection
+Increases Boon Duration/Grants free boons with F2
+Has a Stunbreak and Reveal on a a low CD
+Has a more reliable CC (with weapon stowing to cancel it for dodge-bait)

-Boons can be corrupted/stripped
-Infuse Light depends on the enemy focusing you while its active

Glint’s much more useful in a general sense tbh, and thats before considering that its traits are much more useful than Retribution as well. Jalis is usable for a psecific job, but it doesn’t do that job very well as is and grants few benefits outside of its role.

Buran.3796:

Jalis doesn’t increase your survability one atom, and replaces either Shiro or Glint, both of them are way better providing either sustain tools or heavy pressure to the target. Also, Retribution -which sinergizes with Jalis-was already inferior to Invocation in PvP before the patch that butchered that traitline in October of 2016.

I don’t know what you’re smoking, but Jalis certainly increases your sustainability. Hammers reduce incoming damage by 20%, and they’re easy to maintain. Take the Hardening Persistence trait along with keeping up protection while using a Paladin amulet, and you survive far, far longer than any of the glass cannon shiro/glint builds out there. With the life-steal healing from Devastation, regeneration from Glint, Vengeful Hammers, and Infuse Light, your sustainability is top-notch. The only danger is heavy condi-application builds, and even then if you use your tools correctly, you can cleanse the conditions and outlast the attacker.

Sure, you don’t pressure nearly as well as shiro, but that isn’t your job with this build. It is best utilised by holding points with your team or 1-upping a fight on a point you are trying to defend.

Amiron.1067:

Hammers reduce incoming damage by 20%, and they’re easy to maintain.

And then youre forced to stand up next to wall or other obstacle and there goes your pity 20% reduction.. phahaha. Jalis also lack a real stunbreak, so no, i completely disagree with Jalis increasing your survivability cause enemy can 100-0 you under cc the moment you swap out of Glint. Jalis feels sort of fine in pve cause hammers offers insane heal potential in group of mobs (and that is literally the only reason to pick him up apart from dps boost) but in pvp hes simply horrible.

Burtnik.5218:

Amiron.1067:

Hammers reduce incoming damage by 20%, and they’re easy to maintain.

And then youre forced to stand up next to wall or other obstacle and there goes your pity 20% reduction.. phahaha.

Or an Ele uses magnetic aura on the group and you kill yourself…

narcx.3570:

Burtnik.5218:

Amiron.1067:

Hammers reduce incoming damage by 20%, and they’re easy to maintain.

And then youre forced to stand up next to wall or other obstacle and there goes your pity 20% reduction.. phahaha.

Or an Ele uses magnetic aura on the group and you kill yourself…

???
The only thing that wreck this ability is retal, hurts hard af. The ability itself cannot be reflected and whatever cus its unblockable.

Burtnik.5218:

narcx.3570:

Burtnik.5218:

Amiron.1067:

Hammers reduce incoming damage by 20%, and they’re easy to maintain.

And then youre forced to stand up next to wall or other obstacle and there goes your pity 20% reduction.. phahaha.

Or an Ele uses magnetic aura on the group and you kill yourself…

???
The only thing that wreck this ability is retal, hurts hard af. The ability itself cannot be reflected and whatever cus its unblockable.

As far as I know, despite being unblockable, hammers also get reflected. Just another fun Rev bug thats “working as intended.”

narcx.3570:

Burtnik.5218:

narcx.3570:

Burtnik.5218:

Amiron.1067:

Hammers reduce incoming damage by 20%, and they’re easy to maintain.

And then youre forced to stand up next to wall or other obstacle and there goes your pity 20% reduction.. phahaha.

Or an Ele uses magnetic aura on the group and you kill yourself…

???
The only thing that wreck this ability is retal, hurts hard af. The ability itself cannot be reflected and whatever cus its unblockable.

As far as I know, despite being unblockable, hammers also get reflected. Just another fun Rev bug thats “working as intended.”

Hm.. never happened to me tbh or maybe i just didnt paid attention like with Shiro heal. Ill check it after the patch.. maybe. It sounds fun.