Guild Wars 2

This is a sPvP thread, relating to meta builds and Legends

I’ve been trying to put my finger on why this is for a long time and in my view, it comes down to 3 things:

1. Lack of stowable high-impact attacks. Jade Winds and Chaotic Release are stowable, which is wonderful. However, Axe 5 isn’t stowable, nor is Axe 4, Mace 3, Staff 5, and so on. That’s most of them though.
2. Long cast times. This is actually useful with stowable skills, but bad otherwise.
3. Excessive aftercast. The most conspicuous is Axe 4; I get thrown a bit past my target too. But Unyielding Anguish is a bit offender also, it needs at least .1s aftercast shaved off of it.

Why this matters
Stowing important skills, like Blurred Frenzy, True Shot, or Chilled to the Bone, is what makes 1v1s and 1v2s interesting, which is quite relevant in the upcoming 2v2 game mode. Aftercasts are a hidden but highly impactful part of your effectiveness, as you basically have to memorize them in addition to casting times in order to calculate whether you can/should use this skill at this time. Aftercasts should be minimized for all skills across the board imo, or they should be indicated in the toolip. So to list out some specific changes (this won’t necessarily be comprehensive):

1. Mace 3 must be stowable, and aftercast shaved down. Since autotargeting was removed there needs to be compensation in the form of stowing. This is the majority of condi rev’s “burst” so we need some ability to guarantee its landing.
2. Axe 4 just needs to be reworked in general. The end destination of the rev is just odd; I find this works in my favor since my opponents are confused about where I end up, but that’s not the purpose of the skill. It would be nice if, rather than being a projectile, this were a fast-extending, piercing, frosty line extending from the rev. That way it could be stowed before it hits the target, you can’t really stow a projectile once it’s thrown.
3. Axe 5 could be stowable. I’d love this but it’s not necessary.
4. Unyielding Anguish should be stowable. It’s a very high-impact skill if you land right on top of someone, and very energy-consumptive. That’s the type of skill that should have tells and be stowable. Especially since Mallyx lacks a scary, stowable elite like Shiro and Glint have.
5. Shield 4 should have reduced casting time. It’s already a small-impact defensive skill, I don’t understand why it’s 3/4s? Anet please explain that. 1/4s would be appropriate, even 1/2s would be a big improvement.
6. Burst of strength needs cast time reduction and slight aftercast shave. It’s a melee range attack, it seriously can’t be a 1s cast time. 3/4s is appropriate, if you’re expecting it then you can dodge the second part of the attack.
7. Staff 4: again, small-impact defensive skill, should have a lower casting time and aftercast. It’s super conspicuous at the moment yet is mostly used when the power rev is under condi pressure; throw me a bone here Anet.
8. Facet of Light should have no cast time, though shouldn’t be usable when you’re CCed.
9. Sword 4 should have no precast. I’ve been headshotted by thieves twice while activating my block. Yes you read that correctly. I might be wrong but I don’t think Warrior Shield 5 has a precast before the block takes effect, I’m sure the same is true of Thief’s Bandit’s Defense.

i dont know, after the last balance patch i started playing rev again and it feels so much better now due to warr / dh nerfs

Well like I said, Rev is still clunky. Btw are you playing power rev? It’s not as bad as condi rev in terms of clunkiness and lack of stows.

ye power rev, never played condi before

Some aftercast shaves would be nice, and having Sword 3 being cast-canceled would be cool.

I’d also like to see Sword 2 actually focus your selected target instead of splashing multiple things so that it can be a “burst”. It already shares a similar CD to Trueshot, but unless you’re practically inside the enemy, its nowhere near as strong when minions/pets/clones/other players/mobs (or even objects) are nearby.

Euthymias.7984:

Some aftercast shaves would be nice, and having Sword 3 being cast-canceled would be cool.

I’d also like to see Sword 2 actually focus your selected target instead of splashing multiple things so that it can be a “burst”. It already shares a similar CD to Trueshot, but unless you’re practically inside the enemy, its nowhere near as strong when minions/pets/clones/other players/mobs (or even objects) are nearby.

Yeah I’m kinda split on this. Honestly I despise attacks like True Shot, just a big ol smackdown on a low CD. I think precision strike is in a good place in sPvP, though the objects thing needs to be addressed.

Sword 3 is stowable.

WARNING: Jalis’s elite is stowable BUT Energy gets depleted by a huge amount. Please Anet, fix this problem.

I am not sure what Stowable means as far as spells

TheHolyPug.8314:

I am not sure what Stowable means as far as spells

Its basically cast-cancelling them for fakeouts.
You stow your weapon during the skill’s activation. Part of the animation plays, but the skill itself doesn’t go off and instead goes on a brief ICD of a couple seconds. This lets you throw it out again shortly after an enemy dodged in expecting that skill to actually hit.

Euthymias.7984:

TheHolyPug.8314:

I am not sure what Stowable means as far as spells

Its basically cast-cancelling them for fakeouts.
You stow your weapon during the skill’s activation. Part of the animation plays, but the skill itself doesn’t go off and instead goes on a brief ICD of a couple seconds. This lets you throw it out again shortly after an enemy dodged in expecting that skill to actually hit.

Exactly. You’ll see high-level players like Kronos use this with Chaotic Release. I also use it with Jade Winds from time to time but people are less likely to dodge that one.

Vena.4276:

Sword 3 is stowable.

My bad you’re right, I took that off the list.

As for stowable vs. unstowable, as someone stated sword 3 can be stowed during the precast. Unyielding anguish not being stowable makes sense as it is a leap which is means it already gives benefit of increased movement at the start of the cast. If they make it stowable and not consume energy till the impact then you could abuse spamming it then cancel to move around the map quicker than intended. That is universal between all skills, once a skill gives some tangible benefit, it either goes on full cool-down or consumes energy/initiative. The one exception I know to this is blurred frenzy which has an evade in the precast which can still be canceled for a reduced cool-down, this seems more like a bug then anything else. With that being said you can make an argument for stowable mace 3 since while it is technically a movement skill, it doesn’t really increase movement speed at all.

Some other quality of life things that should happen for would be making drop the hammer made stowable until the final impact. If you cancel it quickly it goes on reduced cool-down and doesn’t consume energy as it should; however if you finish more than about half of the cast time, then it goes on full cool-down and consumes energy if canceled. Also phase traversal needs to give no path to target messages and fail before it consumes energy and goes on cool-down. No other teleport still always goes on full cool-down/consumes energy when it fails.

The solution to condi defence isn’t to buff already necessary skills like staff 4, but to buff weaker legends like Dwarf and Centaur. One or two more traits could be good too. Staff is fine as is because it’s also AoE. There’s nothing low impact about it.

Skills like Axe 4 and 5 will need longer cast times if you want them to be stowable, making you vulnerable to interrupts. Also, axe 5 is stowable, but not after it’s been cast. If you want it to be stowable after the animation begins, then it needs a half second of casting and then another second or so of animation casting. Once you’re beyond that, you’re stuck with a full cast.

If FoL gets no cast time but is unusable during CC, then the same should apply to the warrior skill that does the same thing (but with a shorter CD because revs get two healing skills). I would be fine with this change honestly since it’s a heal skill with a different kind of counterplay. The only problem comes when a rev/warrior can just run into a massive fight and heal to full with ease because nobody’s just going to stop attacking for 3 seconds all because a rev/warrior used a heal skill. Plus condis heal for the duration, so a condi profession would have almost no counterplay.

Shield 4 has a longer cast time because it’s AoE. It’s far from low impact, just like staff 4. If that skill gets a shorter cast time, then I sure hope they do the same for ele staff skills, especially considering that shield is actually an elite spec weapon.

Zintrothen.1056:

The solution to condi defence isn’t to buff already necessary skills like staff 4, but to buff weaker legends like Dwarf and Centaur. One or two more traits could be good too. Staff is fine as is because it’s also AoE. There’s nothing low impact about it.

Skills like Axe 4 and 5 will need longer cast times if you want them to be stowable, making you vulnerable to interrupts. Also, axe 5 is stowable, but not after it’s been cast. If you want it to be stowable after the animation begins, then it needs a half second of casting and then another second or so of animation casting. Once you’re beyond that, you’re stuck with a full cast.

If FoL gets no cast time but is unusable during CC, then the same should apply to the warrior skill that does the same thing (but with a shorter CD because revs get two healing skills). I would be fine with this change honestly since it’s a heal skill with a different kind of counterplay. The only problem comes when a rev/warrior can just run into a massive fight and heal to full with ease because nobody’s just going to stop attacking for 3 seconds all because a rev/warrior used a heal skill. Plus condis heal for the duration, so a condi profession would have almost no counterplay.

Shield 4 has a longer cast time because it’s AoE. It’s far from low impact, just like staff 4. If that skill gets a shorter cast time, then I sure hope they do the same for ele staff skills, especially considering that shield is actually an elite spec weapon.

Ok first you’re making a number of loose statements and then not substantiating them.

Shield 4 has a longer cast time because it’s AoE

Where have you heard this rationale? Has a dev said this? If we’re going to be comparing to other professions, mesmer has multiple aoes that have 1/4s casting time. I don’t understand why you think aoe = long cast. Your point about axe 5 is well-taken, but I already understood that. Yes it would need a longer cast time, and that’s worth it to have a dodge-inducing animation on it in my opinion.

As to your point about FoL needing counterplay, it already has counterplay. It’s called don’t attack the rev. You say it’s bad that a rev can “run into a massive fight and heal to full” but a rev can’t heal outside of a massive fight. That’s the difference. Leave the rev alone in combat and they can’t heal. It’s much harder for a rev to heal than it is for a thief or mesmer, which are frequently compared to revs in terms of their role in pvp. FoL is a great heal when you’re fighting NPCs; as I mentioned, this is a sPvP-related thread, about meta legends.

Anyways, your response was mostly just to tell me that rev doesn’t really need changes even though condi rev continues to be low-tier in pvp. I like the idea of buffing non-meta legends, especially Jalis, but if you’re gonna pop in here then how about giving some specific suggestions?