Guild Wars 2

Is it just me or should it remove the three conditions upon shadowsteping away instead of doing it when you jump back?

I really like that utility and I often find myself using it for condition cleansing. The problem is that I have to COME BACK to actually clear myself, which in turn makes me return to the source of the conditions.

The typical example is fighting a turret engi or condition mesmer. You get a burst of 5 conditions and you need to cleanse them, when you shadowstep away and then back again, you just return to the wolf’s mouth and get the same amount of condis you just got rid off. And then we have such a long cooldown on it…

EDIT:

It’s clear that per design, SS would fall into an assault type skill. However, I will list down the reasons why this approach could be revised:

• As per now, Thieves have a vast repertory of assault SS-themed abilities.
• As per now, Thieves do not posses any specifically defensive SS-themed ability.
• The stun breaking capability of the first jump corraborates the “run away” approach of the skill.
• Shadow Return’s 10s cooldown limits the hit-and-run capabilities of the skill. If my enemy gets me at the 11th second, I lose both: my escaping way and my condition cleaning.
• It is ground targerted rather than enemy targeted, making it prone to not being as effective as other assault skills.
• If per design SS is meant to be a mixed attack/defense utility, it should then remove the conditions per jump, rather than concentrating it on a single one, which in turn focuses it on an specific aspect (attack for the 2nd jump, defense on the 1st jump).
• The risks using SS brings right now are not on par with its cooldown: " Should I assault with it, knowing that if I get under pressure I only have 10s to run? Or should I save it for when I’m already under pressure, knowing that if I need to clean my conditions, I have to jump right back to the fight?"

From another thread:

stof.9341:

Shadow Step has 60s cooldown and is not only one of our stunbreaks but one of our major escape spell. And if you use the condition removal part of it, it isn’t an escape spell anymore.

3 conditions every 60s is hardly worth mentioning.

Confusion isn’t much of a problem because we are kind of good at waiting up that it passes by disengaging a little I suppose.

Warriors can remove 3 conditions every 8s provided they can get the adrenaline and their was supposed to be the class that has difficulties dealing with conditions!

MakubeC.3026:

From another thread:

stof.9341:

Shadow Step has 60s cooldown and is not only one of our stunbreaks but one of our major escape spell. And if you use the condition removal part of it, it isn’t an escape spell anymore.

3 conditions every 60s is hardly worth mentioning.

Confusion isn’t much of a problem because we are kind of good at waiting up that it passes by disengaging a little I suppose.

Warriors can remove 3 conditions every 8s provided they can get the adrenaline and their was supposed to be the class that has difficulties dealing with conditions!

That comment is misleading.

Warrior’s trait allows the Warrior to remove those conditions — not utility skills.

In comparison, you should look at Shadow’s Embrace — which is removing 2 conditions every stealth. You can also stealth back-to-back if you know how to do it to remove even more conditions.

As for OP, Shadowstep is working as intended — you’re just misusing it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

From another thread:

stof.9341:

Shadow Step has 60s cooldown and is not only one of our stunbreaks but one of our major escape spell. And if you use the condition removal part of it, it isn’t an escape spell anymore.

3 conditions every 60s is hardly worth mentioning.

Confusion isn’t much of a problem because we are kind of good at waiting up that it passes by disengaging a little I suppose.

Warriors can remove 3 conditions every 8s provided they can get the adrenaline and their was supposed to be the class that has difficulties dealing with conditions!

That comment is misleading.

Warrior’s trait allows the Warrior to remove those conditions — not utility skills.

In comparison, you should look at Shadow’s Embrace — which is removing 2 conditions every stealth. You can also stealth back-to-back if you know how to do it to remove even more conditions.

As for OP, Shadowstep is working as intended — you’re just misusing it.

How am I misusing it?

Shadowstepping away does not help escaping as intended because the conditions are present.

If the trick is to wait for the opponent to move away from the original position to shadowstep back, one might as well wait a little longer and just sweat out the conditions.

Right now we are shadowsteping away and returning, back to back, just to clean conditions, which is a waste of resources and a waste of the usability of the skill, specially on a 60s cooldown.

MakubeC.3026:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

From another thread:

stof.9341:

Shadow Step has 60s cooldown and is not only one of our stunbreaks but one of our major escape spell. And if you use the condition removal part of it, it isn’t an escape spell anymore.

3 conditions every 60s is hardly worth mentioning.

Confusion isn’t much of a problem because we are kind of good at waiting up that it passes by disengaging a little I suppose.

Warriors can remove 3 conditions every 8s provided they can get the adrenaline and their was supposed to be the class that has difficulties dealing with conditions!

That comment is misleading.

Warrior’s trait allows the Warrior to remove those conditions — not utility skills.

In comparison, you should look at Shadow’s Embrace — which is removing 2 conditions every stealth. You can also stealth back-to-back if you know how to do it to remove even more conditions.

As for OP, Shadowstep is working as intended — you’re just misusing it.

How am I misusing it?

Shadowstepping away does not help escaping as intended because the conditions are present.

If the trick is to wait for the opponent to move away from the original position to shadowstep back, one might as well wait a little longer and just sweat out the conditions.

Right now we are shadowsteping away and returning, back to back, just to clean conditions, which is a waste of resources and a waste of the usability of the skill, specially on a 60s cooldown.

Intent #1: The intent to Shadowstep is for the Thief to shadowstep in, deal damage, then shadow return and any conditions received during the shadowstep will be removed.

Intent #2: Another intent to Shadowstep is for the Thief to shadowstep out, heal, then shadow return in and remove conditions to continue the pressure.

The way you want it to function will ruin the first intention since it will remove conditions that does not exists.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

From another thread:

stof.9341:

Shadow Step has 60s cooldown and is not only one of our stunbreaks but one of our major escape spell. And if you use the condition removal part of it, it isn’t an escape spell anymore.

3 conditions every 60s is hardly worth mentioning.

Confusion isn’t much of a problem because we are kind of good at waiting up that it passes by disengaging a little I suppose.

Warriors can remove 3 conditions every 8s provided they can get the adrenaline and their was supposed to be the class that has difficulties dealing with conditions!

That comment is misleading.

Warrior’s trait allows the Warrior to remove those conditions — not utility skills.

In comparison, you should look at Shadow’s Embrace — which is removing 2 conditions every stealth. You can also stealth back-to-back if you know how to do it to remove even more conditions.

As for OP, Shadowstep is working as intended — you’re just misusing it.

In order to remove the conditions you would have to be in stealth for the full duration to get 2 conditions removed. So 3 or 4 seconds in stealth to remove 2 conditions. But I am a little fuzzy on how Shadow’s Embrace works, the wiki says the first condition is removed on stealth so I guess 2 conditions would just be removed.

So if the thief played stealth heavy it would be about 5 conditions cleared in 8 seconds compared to warriors 3 conditions every 8 seconds. Now we need to take into perspective that the thief is not going to be doing anything to help the fight in those 8 seconds while the warrior will still be able to dis out damage and support. So 3 conditions every 8 seconds and being able to contribute to the fight after being bursted or 5 conditions in that 8 seconds but doing nothing to help your teammates.

Also if the thief has 3 points in SA the stealth lasts 4 seconds instead of 3 seconds. Now what I do not know is does that extra second in stealth carry on to the next stealth so only need to wait 2 more seconds for the conditions to clear. If not then it’s only 4 conditions every 8 seconds compared to the warrior’s 3 conditions every 8 seconds. I’d rather have the warriors condi clear if this is the case.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Intent #1: The intent to Shadowstep is for the Thief to shadowstep in, deal damage, then shadow return and any conditions received during the shadowstep will be removed.

Intent #2: Another intent to Shadowstep is for the Thief to shadowstep out, heal, then shadow return in and remove conditions to continue the pressure.

The way you want it to function will ruin the first intention since it will remove conditions that does not exists.

While I agree that intent #1 is one of the main roles of shadowstep, it would be nice for shadowstep to have a more defensive role which would include conditions cleared on the first step but that would ruin #1 intent.
I don’t understand your 2 second intent because it seems so similar to one of the OP’s reasons why it should be swapped. You are saying that your shadowstep out and heal and step back but if you have confusion or poison on your then you are going to be damaged before you even heal and your heal might be -33%. Also when you shadowstep to “pressure” you are just going to get a face full of conditions again and not have your heal up or your stunbreaker or condi clear.

In my humble opinion, I think shadowstep should be more of a retreat thing. Mainly because for that sole purpose we a great deal of skills, in fact, the only sets missing an assault hability is P/P and D/D, none of which are serious for PvP in this stage of the game.

• Steal (Global)
• Infiltrator’s Arrow (SB)
• Infiltrator’s Strike (S/D)
• Shadow Shot(D/P)

So, the fact that can use Shadowstep to BACK AWAY from pressure, not to get into it, (unless you are D/D) should make the cleanse at the beggining a more logical approach. Its clear we don’t need another assaulting skill, we need a disagange skill ala Shadow Strike(P/D).
But maybe my 2k hours as thief are wrong.

Azawrath.7304:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

From another thread:

stof.9341:

Shadow Step has 60s cooldown and is not only one of our stunbreaks but one of our major escape spell. And if you use the condition removal part of it, it isn’t an escape spell anymore.

3 conditions every 60s is hardly worth mentioning.

Confusion isn’t much of a problem because we are kind of good at waiting up that it passes by disengaging a little I suppose.

Warriors can remove 3 conditions every 8s provided they can get the adrenaline and their was supposed to be the class that has difficulties dealing with conditions!

That comment is misleading.

Warrior’s trait allows the Warrior to remove those conditions — not utility skills.

In comparison, you should look at Shadow’s Embrace — which is removing 2 conditions every stealth. You can also stealth back-to-back if you know how to do it to remove even more conditions.

As for OP, Shadowstep is working as intended — you’re just misusing it.

In order to remove the conditions you would have to be in stealth for the full duration to get 2 conditions removed. So 3 or 4 seconds in stealth to remove 2 conditions. But I am a little fuzzy on how Shadow’s Embrace works, the wiki says the first condition is removed on stealth so I guess 2 conditions would just be removed.

You remove a condition on stealth then another one 3s later — you don’t have to stay in stealth for the full duration. If you are revealed for 3s, you can remove 3 conditions in a span of 6s. If you are revealed for 4s, you can remove 3 conditions in a span of 7s.

However, if you are stealth for 3s (removing 2 conditions) then re-stealth for 3s after (removing another 2 conditions), you effectively removed 4 conditions in a 6s span.

So if the thief played stealth heavy it would be about 5 conditions cleared in 8 seconds compared to warriors 3 conditions every 8 seconds.

Yes. If revealed is not a factor.

Now we need to take into perspective that the thief is not going to be doing anything to help the fight in those 8 seconds while the warrior will still be able to dis out damage and support.

On the contrary, Thief can contribute by using CnD to stealth and re-stealth.

So 3 conditions every 8 seconds and being able to contribute to the fight after being bursted or 5 conditions in that 8 seconds but doing nothing to help your teammates.

Nobody is saying that they are equal. I’m surely not.

What I pointed out to be misleading is comparing a trait to a utility skill.

However, Thief can stealth, remove condition, sneak attack, then stealth again after the revealed — while doing DPS while revealed (even more DPS when traited with Revealed Training) — in which case, the Thief will also remove about 3 conditions in an 8s span while waiting for revealed to wear off.

Nobody is suggesting that you should stay in stealth to remove the conditions. you can remove one condition by entering stealth every time revealed debuff drops off.

Also if the thief has 3 points in SA the stealth lasts 4 seconds instead of 3 seconds.

2pts into SA is sufficient. No need to extend it to 4s.

Now what I do not know is does that extra second in stealth carry on to the next stealth so only need to wait 2 more seconds for the conditions to clear. If not then it’s only 4 conditions every 8 seconds compared to the warrior’s 3 conditions every 8 seconds. I’d rather have the warriors condi clear if this is the case.

You’re looks at this wrongly. See my explanation above.

I don’t understand your 2 second intent because it seems so similar to one of the OP’s reasons why it should be swapped. You are saying that your shadowstep out and heal and step back but if you have confusion or poison on your then you are going to be damaged before you even heal and your heal might be -33%. Also when you shadowstep to “pressure” you are just going to get a face full of conditions again and not have your heal up or your stunbreaker or condi clear.

The intent #2 is to disengage, heal (or probably trigger Lyssa, shadowstepping away to reduce the chance of getting interrupted) then reengage. Sure conditions like poisons and confusions might diminish the effectiveness of your heal, but it doesn’t invalidate the intent. This is why I said the OP is misusing Shadowstep since it is not the right tool to use in that scenario.

MakubeC.3026:

In my humble opinion, I think shadowstep should be more of a retreat thing. Mainly because for that sole purpose we a great deal of skills, in fact, the only sets missing an assault hability is P/P and D/D, none of which are serious for PvP in this stage of the game.

• Steal (Global)
• Infiltrator’s Arrow (SB)
• Infiltrator’s Strike (S/D)
• Shadow Shot(D/P)

So, the fact that can use Shadowstep to BACK AWAY from pressure, not to get into it, (unless you are D/D) should make the cleanse at the beggining a more logical approach. Its clear we don’t need another assaulting skill, we need a disagange skill ala Shadow Strike(P/D).
But maybe my 2k hours as thief are wrong.

I don’t know about you, but if you want to have a disengage perhaps bring RFI, Withdraw, use stealth or just dodge away — those are designed for defensive purposes.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

In my humble opinion, I think shadowstep should be more of a retreat thing. Mainly because for that sole purpose we a great deal of skills, in fact, the only sets missing an assault hability is P/P and D/D, none of which are serious for PvP in this stage of the game.

• Steal (Global)
• Infiltrator’s Arrow (SB)
• Infiltrator’s Strike (S/D)
• Shadow Shot(D/P)

So, the fact that can use Shadowstep to BACK AWAY from pressure, not to get into it, (unless you are D/D) should make the cleanse at the beggining a more logical approach. Its clear we don’t need another assaulting skill, we need a disagange skill ala Shadow Strike(P/D).
But maybe my 2k hours as thief are wrong.

I don’t know about you, but if you want to have a disengage perhaps bring RFI, Withdraw, use stealth or just dodge away — those are designed for defensive purposes.

Would do, unfortunately, none of those will cleanse my torment or confusion. Unless I sit for several seconds (on which my conditions are over anyways). Although, dodging does sound like a plausible suggestion. Maybe they should implement that for all other professions as well. Conditions? ROLL AWAY.

MakubeC.3026:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

In my humble opinion, I think shadowstep should be more of a retreat thing. Mainly because for that sole purpose we a great deal of skills, in fact, the only sets missing an assault hability is P/P and D/D, none of which are serious for PvP in this stage of the game.

• Steal (Global)
• Infiltrator’s Arrow (SB)
• Infiltrator’s Strike (S/D)
• Shadow Shot(D/P)

So, the fact that can use Shadowstep to BACK AWAY from pressure, not to get into it, (unless you are D/D) should make the cleanse at the beggining a more logical approach. Its clear we don’t need another assaulting skill, we need a disagange skill ala Shadow Strike(P/D).
But maybe my 2k hours as thief are wrong.

I don’t know about you, but if you want to have a disengage perhaps bring RFI, Withdraw, use stealth or just dodge away — those are designed for defensive purposes.

Would do, unfortunately, none of those will cleanse my torment or confusion. Unless I sit for several seconds (on which my conditions are over anyways). Although, dodging does sound like a plausible suggestion. Maybe they should implement that for all other professions as well. Conditions? ROLL AWAY.

Your example of disengage skill was Shadow Strike, which does not remove conditions like torment and confusion, so MEH to your post. Try to make sense next time.

If you want a disengage and a condition cleanse, maybe you should start getting used to using sword.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

In my humble opinion, I think shadowstep should be more of a retreat thing. Mainly because for that sole purpose we a great deal of skills, in fact, the only sets missing an assault hability is P/P and D/D, none of which are serious for PvP in this stage of the game.

• Steal (Global)
• Infiltrator’s Arrow (SB)
• Infiltrator’s Strike (S/D)
• Shadow Shot(D/P)

So, the fact that can use Shadowstep to BACK AWAY from pressure, not to get into it, (unless you are D/D) should make the cleanse at the beggining a more logical approach. Its clear we don’t need another assaulting skill, we need a disagange skill ala Shadow Strike(P/D).
But maybe my 2k hours as thief are wrong.

I don’t know about you, but if you want to have a disengage perhaps bring RFI, Withdraw, use stealth or just dodge away — those are designed for defensive purposes.

Would do, unfortunately, none of those will cleanse my torment or confusion. Unless I sit for several seconds (on which my conditions are over anyways). Although, dodging does sound like a plausible suggestion. Maybe they should implement that for all other professions as well. Conditions? ROLL AWAY.

Your example of disengage skill was Shadow Strike, which does not remove conditions like torment and confusion, so MEH to your post. Try to make sense next time.

If you want a disengage and a condition cleanse, maybe you should start getting used to using sword.

And this is why no one else is posting in this thread… Sir Vincent please try to be respectful… maybe? I for one like to be disproved or shown a better idea when posting in a discussion board because it is in fact a discussion board. Most people here don’t mind being proven wrong or having their ideas throw out if it makes progress. But you see one mistake in a post or you see something you don’t agree with and you completely throw their idea out the window and you talk to them in a condescending tone (At least I think it is, hard to hear it when these are just words.) Nothing is wrong with you disagreeing on a post as long as it is handled in a constructive way in which everyone benefits from it as a learning experience. I for one believe you bring up some excellent points on certain topics but your dirt bag aura makes me disagree with you just for the sake of how you seem to treat people.

Now I could just be completely making this up and it could be all in my head …

Now back to the post…

I think this shows that the thief needs more traits and utility skills to handle conditions.

I for one do not use shadowstep for it’s original purpose because I use steal, infiltrators signet, heartseeker, and SB#5 to close a gap rather than shadowstep.

Imo shadowstep is too valuable as a defensive utility slot to be used for a gap close. With the stunbreaker and the 1200 step, I would rather save it on my bar for when I get perma stunned by a warrior or a thief tries a backstab combo on me. Or for when I need to get a stomp off. So to match my play style I would say having the condition clear on the first step would be more beneficial for me.

Now I have used shadowstep as a way to poke in and deal some damage and step out but it was more to have fun and be a troll than to actually achieve a kill. I think that the time frame to step back on shadowstep is too short and should be increased. At the current moment it is 10 seconds which is compared to the swords 15 seconds. I think shadow return should be increased to 15 seconds to match the sword. If it was increased then I think more players would use shadowstep as it’s “original purpose”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

In my humble opinion, I think shadowstep should be more of a retreat thing. Mainly because for that sole purpose we a great deal of skills, in fact, the only sets missing an assault hability is P/P and D/D, none of which are serious for PvP in this stage of the game.

• Steal (Global)
• Infiltrator’s Arrow (SB)
• Infiltrator’s Strike (S/D)
• Shadow Shot(D/P)

So, the fact that can use Shadowstep to BACK AWAY from pressure, not to get into it, (unless you are D/D) should make the cleanse at the beggining a more logical approach. Its clear we don’t need another assaulting skill, we need a disagange skill ala Shadow Strike(P/D).
But maybe my 2k hours as thief are wrong.

I don’t know about you, but if you want to have a disengage perhaps bring RFI, Withdraw, use stealth or just dodge away — those are designed for defensive purposes.

Would do, unfortunately, none of those will cleanse my torment or confusion. Unless I sit for several seconds (on which my conditions are over anyways). Although, dodging does sound like a plausible suggestion. Maybe they should implement that for all other professions as well. Conditions? ROLL AWAY.

Your example of disengage skill was Shadow Strike, which does not remove conditions like torment and confusion, so MEH to your post. Try to make sense next time.

If you want a disengage and a condition cleanse, maybe you should start getting used to using sword.

I said ala Shadow Strike in the sense that it gets you away from your target, being more specific by the fact that I mentioned how we don’t have any shadowstepping disengage ability.
Maybe it wasn’t that clear for you or maybe my english could use some more polishing.

Anyways, the fact that we have many shadowstep-themed assaulting skills is out there, and trully, making the shadowstep utility but another, may fall into redundancy. I think switching it to conditions cleanse upon use would make it more defensive oriented yet also an attack abled skill.

Be honest with yourself: using shadowstep to assault is a last resourse, only used when you don’t have IP to use one of your weapon skills (mentioned above) and your Steal is in cooldown.

Heck, you even risk missing the target by using it since it is ground targeted.

Azawrath.7304:

And this is why no one else is posting in this thread… Sir Vincent please try to be respectful… maybe? I for one like to be disproved or shown a better idea when posting in a discussion board because it is in fact a discussion board. Most people here don’t mind being proven wrong or having their ideas throw out if it makes progress. But you see one mistake in a post or you see something you don’t agree with and you completely throw their idea out the window and you talk to them in a condescending tone (At least I think it is, hard to hear it when these are just words.)

Wait wait wait wait – wait!

I have constructed a respectful reply to his idea why it’s not going to work, which he completely ignored, and started with a reply with a sarcastic tone.

And you’re calling me on my reply? Wow!!!

Nothing is wrong with you disagreeing on a post as long as it is handled in a constructive way in which everyone benefits from it as a learning experience. I for one believe you bring up some excellent points on certain topics but your dirt bag aura makes me disagree with you just for the sake of how you seem to treat people.

You can do whatever you want. I can’t do anything about that. You can also read my post in an angry tone, or in a fun and loving tone — I can’t do anything about that either.

My previous reply to him was a sarcastic respond to his sarcastic remark. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now I could just be completely making this up and it could be all in my head …

It’s the end of the day after a long weekend, so yes, it must be something you ate or drank over the weekend.

Now back to the post…

I think this shows that the thief needs more traits and utility skills to handle conditions.

I for one do not use shadowstep for it’s original purpose because I use steal, infiltrators signet, heartseeker, and SB#5 to close a gap rather than shadowstep.

Imo shadowstep is too valuable as a defensive utility slot to be used for a gap close. With the stunbreaker and the 1200 step, I would rather save it on my bar for when I get perma stunned by a warrior or a thief tries a backstab combo on me. Or for when I need to get a stomp off. So to match my play style I would say having the condition clear on the first step would be more beneficial for me.

What about the others who uses it properly? That’s the same question I have asked above without any answer.

You are willing to ruin their playstyle to favor your playstyle. Now if ArenaNet will give us another skill (which I doubt will ever happen), then yeah, a skill like a Death’s Retreat would be nice to have.

Now I have used shadowstep as a way to poke in and deal some damage and step out but it was more to have fun and be a troll than to actually achieve a kill. I think that the time frame to step back on shadowstep is too short and should be increased. At the current moment it is 10 seconds which is compared to the swords 15 seconds. I think shadow return should be increased to 15 seconds to match the sword. If it was increased then I think more players would use shadowstep as it’s “original purpose”

If anything will happen to Shadowstep, I would bet that ArenaNet will force it to require an enemy target to be more consistent with Sword #2.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Azawrath.7304:

And this is why no one else is posting in this thread… Sir Vincent please try to be respectful… maybe? I for one like to be disproved or shown a better idea when posting in a discussion board because it is in fact a discussion board. Most people here don’t mind being proven wrong or having their ideas throw out if it makes progress. But you see one mistake in a post or you see something you don’t agree with and you completely throw their idea out the window and you talk to them in a condescending tone (At least I think it is, hard to hear it when these are just words.)

Wait wait wait wait – wait!

I have constructed a respectful reply to his idea why it’s not going to work, which he completely ignored, and started with a reply with a sarcastic tone.

And you’re calling me on my reply? Wow!!!

Nothing is wrong with you disagreeing on a post as long as it is handled in a constructive way in which everyone benefits from it as a learning experience. I for one believe you bring up some excellent points on certain topics but your dirt bag aura makes me disagree with you just for the sake of how you seem to treat people.

You can do whatever you want. I can’t do anything about that. You can also read my post in an angry tone, or in a fun and loving tone — I can’t do anything about that either.

My previous reply to him was a sarcastic respond to his sarcastic remark. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now I could just be completely making this up and it could be all in my head …

It’s the end of the day after a long weekend, so yes, it must be something you ate or drank over the weekend.

Now back to the post…

I think this shows that the thief needs more traits and utility skills to handle conditions.

I for one do not use shadowstep for it’s original purpose because I use steal, infiltrators signet, heartseeker, and SB#5 to close a gap rather than shadowstep.

Imo shadowstep is too valuable as a defensive utility slot to be used for a gap close. With the stunbreaker and the 1200 step, I would rather save it on my bar for when I get perma stunned by a warrior or a thief tries a backstab combo on me. Or for when I need to get a stomp off. So to match my play style I would say having the condition clear on the first step would be more beneficial for me.

What about the others who uses it properly? That’s the same question I have asked above without any answer.

You are willing to ruin their playstyle to favor your playstyle. Now if ArenaNet will give us another skill (which I doubt will ever happen), then yeah, a skill like a Death’s Retreat would be nice to have.

Now I have used shadowstep as a way to poke in and deal some damage and step out but it was more to have fun and be a troll than to actually achieve a kill. I think that the time frame to step back on shadowstep is too short and should be increased. At the current moment it is 10 seconds which is compared to the swords 15 seconds. I think shadow return should be increased to 15 seconds to match the sword. If it was increased then I think more players would use shadowstep as it’s “original purpose”

If anything will happen to Shadowstep, I would bet that ArenaNet will force it to require an enemy target to be more consistent with Sword #2.

I didn’t reponse to your respecful reply because I think Azawrath replied in an accurate way.
After all, SS breaks stun, it is not meant to be an assaulting skill, I have proven we have too many of those already! SS is a defensive skill, used as last resourse for attacking. I will get on tonight and ask thieves around, but I’m pretty sure they will agree they don’t use it to assaulting, its on 60s cooldown for God’s sake.
The fact that it cleanses inmovility on the first jump and three on the jump back just mixes the concept of the skill. We don’t need more SS attacks, we need kitten defense!

What if the skill were changed so that it removes 2 conditions each way?

MakubeC.3026:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MakubeC.3026:

In my humble opinion, I think shadowstep should be more of a retreat thing. Mainly because for that sole purpose we a great deal of skills, in fact, the only sets missing an assault hability is P/P and D/D, none of which are serious for PvP in this stage of the game.

• Steal (Global)
• Infiltrator’s Arrow (SB)
• Infiltrator’s Strike (S/D)
• Shadow Shot(D/P)

So, the fact that can use Shadowstep to BACK AWAY from pressure, not to get into it, (unless you are D/D) should make the cleanse at the beggining a more logical approach. Its clear we don’t need another assaulting skill, we need a disagange skill ala Shadow Strike(P/D).
But maybe my 2k hours as thief are wrong.

I don’t know about you, but if you want to have a disengage perhaps bring RFI, Withdraw, use stealth or just dodge away — those are designed for defensive purposes.

Would do, unfortunately, none of those will cleanse my torment or confusion. Unless I sit for several seconds (on which my conditions are over anyways). Although, dodging does sound like a plausible suggestion. Maybe they should implement that for all other professions as well. Conditions? ROLL AWAY.

Your example of disengage skill was Shadow Strike, which does not remove conditions like torment and confusion, so MEH to your post. Try to make sense next time.

If you want a disengage and a condition cleanse, maybe you should start getting used to using sword.

I said ala Shadow Strike in the sense that it gets you away from your target, being more specific by the fact that I mentioned how we don’t have any shadowstepping disengage ability.

That’s what I’m trying to point out. Shadowstep was not designed to disengage. Our disengaging teleport is called Shadow Return, which is only available after you shadowstepped.

Maybe it wasn’t that clear for you or maybe my english could use some more polishing.

Nah, your English is fine, it’s just the way you construct your sentence that makes it unclear.

Anyways, the fact that we have many shadowstep-themed assaulting skills is out there, and trully, making the shadowstep utility but another, may fall into redundancy. I think switching it to conditions cleanse upon use would make it more defensive oriented yet also an attack abled skill.

As I mentioned to my reply in the above post, ArenaNet will have to create a new skill for that and leaving Shadowstep as is.

Be honest with yourself: using shadowstep to assault is a last resourse, only used when you don’t have IP to use one of your weapon skills (mentioned above) and your Steal is in cooldown.

From my intent post above, I used it just like you do, but I don’t see a problem with it because I reserve it as my stun break skill, not my condition removal skill. The condition removal is just a bonus.

Heck, you even risk missing the target by using it since it is ground targeted.

I wouldn’t complain about that. The worst thing that could happen is ArenaNet making it consistent with Sword #2, that is, requiring a target.

The fact we only got 10s to use the return is kinda disastrous too for using it in an assaulting way. If you miss the window, you threw out both a potent stun break skill but your main condition removal utility.

First off I don’t think Mak was ignoring you, maybe he/she just wanted to post an idea that came to his/her mind? But I’ll let them talk for themselves.

Secondly, just in a recent post on venoms you tried to shut down a thread by throwing out the OP’s idea. Please try to be constructive on a discussion board.
And with being constructive I’ll get back to the OP’s topic…

I never said that I wanted to destroy someone play style, I was just saying to match mine I would happy if they changed shadowstep. Also buffs and nerfs destroy people’s play styles all the time even if the buff or nerf is for the better. Maybe shadowstep could use a change.

I just think that using shadowstep the way I and many other players use it, unlocks it’s full potential and is way more helpful as a utility skill if use this way than as a offensive utility skill.

“The fact we only got 10s to use the return is kinda disastrous too for using it in an assaulting way. If you miss the window, you threw out both a potent stun break skill but your main condition removal utility.”
Agreed.
If the 10s shadow return was increased to 15 seconds or even 20 seconds if would help out players who use it in either way, whether that be offensive or defensive. It would allow a thief to inflict more damage before having to return, and it would allow a thief to port away and draw the enemy away from the port so they can port back and clear conditions without getting another face full.

Have to agree with OP shadowstep should clear condis on the first port.

stof.9341:

The fact we only got 10s to use the return is kinda disastrous too for using it in an assaulting way. If you miss the window, you threw out both a potent stun break skill but your main condition removal utility.

I’m simply explaining the intent, which makes sense, even though you and I (and maybe everyone else) don’t necessarily use it as intended.

This type of issue goes back to ArenaNet Devs not playing Thieves.

I understand what the OP’s intention is, it does makes sense, however we cannot assume that every one agrees with the OP’s solution even after knowing the intention behind SS. What if ArenaNet reviewed the skill and decided that we’re all using it wrong and put a target requirement on it…then what?

Honestly, I believe it should require a target and be put on a 30s cooldown.

Azawrath.7304:

Secondly, just in a recent post on venoms you tried to shut down a thread by throwing out the OP’s idea

I did not throw the idea. I pointed out the wall blocking any progress on improving venoms. I might have been too blunt, but that was more directed at ArenaNet, not the OP.

I never said that I wanted to destroy someone play style, I was just saying to match mine I would happy if they changed shadowstep. Also buffs and nerfs destroy people’s play styles all the time even if the buff or nerf is for the better. Maybe shadowstep could use a change.

Just be careful what you wish for.

I just think that using shadowstep the way I and many other players use it, unlocks it’s full potential and is way more helpful as a utility skill if use this way than as a offensive utility skill.

I don’t disagree with that. I just don’t like skill getting changed to favor other builds over others who uses the same skill properly.

Using a class or a build or a trait in a different way is how new metas are created, it’s what keeps games alive. It adds for new builds and new combinations. Not using a skill properly like shadowstep is how the game evolves.

It’s clear that per design, SS would fall into an assault type skill. However, I will list down the reasons why this approach could be revised:

• As per now, Thieves have a vast repertory of assault SS-themed abilities.
• As per now, Thieves do not posses any specifically defensive SS-themed ability.
• The stun breaking capability of the first jump corraborates the “run away” approach of the skill.
• Shadow Return’s 10s cooldown limits the hit-and-run capabilities of the skill. If my enemy gets me at the 11th second, I lose both: my escaping way and my condition cleaning.
• It is ground targerted rather than enemy targeted, making it prone to not being as effective as other assault skills.
• If per design SS is meant to be a mixed attack/defense utility, it should then remove the conditions per jump, rather than concentrating it on a single one, which in turn focuses it on an specific aspect (attack for the 2nd jump, defense on the 1st jump).
• The risks using SS brings right now are not on par with its cooldown: " Should I assault with it, knowing that if I get under pressure I only have 10s to run? Or should I save it for when I’m already under pressure, knowing that if I need to clean my conditions, I have to jump right back to the fight?"

MakubeC.3026:

• Shadow Return’s 10s cooldown limits the hit-and-run capabilities of the skill. If my enemy gets me at the 11th second, I lose both: my escaping way and my condition cleaning.

You forgot something : Can you actually do something in 10s only? I mean, lot’s of players go around with very tanky builds. 10s is seriously short to kill them.

stof.9341:

MakubeC.3026:

• Shadow Return’s 10s cooldown limits the hit-and-run capabilities of the skill. If my enemy gets me at the 11th second, I lose both: my escaping way and my condition cleaning.

You forgot something : Can you actually do something in 10s only? I mean, lot’s of players go around with very tanky builds. 10s is seriously short to kill them.

Which is why I think increasing the shadow return would benefit both play styles. Even if the player is running full glass cannon and you manage to down them, having other players AoE & CC the downed player is going to make the stomp incredibly hard to get and will cut your shadow return close.

Another suggestion would be to put condition removal on both the shadowstep and the shadow return, this would be very strong but it would give thieves a solution for clearing burst conditions. Maybe 2 and 2?
EDIT: For condi burst I would say 3 on step and 3 when you step back, it might be pretty strong…

Azawrath.7304:

stof.9341:

MakubeC.3026:

• Shadow Return’s 10s cooldown limits the hit-and-run capabilities of the skill. If my enemy gets me at the 11th second, I lose both: my escaping way and my condition cleaning.

You forgot something : Can you actually do something in 10s only? I mean, lot’s of players go around with very tanky builds. 10s is seriously short to kill them.

Which is why I think increasing the shadow return would benefit both play styles. Even if the player is running full glass cannon and you manage to down them, having other players AoE & CC the downed player is going to make the stomp incredibly hard to get and will cut your shadow return close.

Another suggestion would be to put condition removal on both the shadowstep and the shadow return, this would be very strong but it would give thieves a solution for clearing burst conditions. Maybe 2 and 2?
EDIT: For condi burst I would say 3 on step and 3 when you step back, it might be pretty strong…

3 and 3 is out of the question. 2 and 2 goes more in hand with the 60s cooldown.

Hi everyone, shadowstep is currently part of my playstyle and it works as you all said as intended. But I admit that you should have at least 15 sec to use or not shadow’s return. It should also stay GT, allowing a more skilled gameplay.
Here is a video of me duelling an engi and using (I think) all this skill effectivness ( gap closer and condi removal) at the beginning of the 2nd video it shows the retreat potential of this skill after a stomp. Sorry that my first post on this forum is to show my videos
Engi: http://youtu.be/GJqMYJBZ-cM
Outnumbered roaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5qs2iUGzNE

Azawrath.7304:

Using a class or a build or a trait in a different way is how new metas are created, it’s what keeps games alive. It adds for new builds and new combinations. Not using a skill properly like shadowstep is how the game evolves.

Yes, using something in a creative way than it’s original use is commendable. However, if the creative way is to destroy the original way…then you didn’t really create a different way, rather a replacement.

Any shadowstepping skills are designed as an offensive skill, even Infiltrator’s Arrow, the damage and the blind on hit is the evidence of the intent. Even though, we all use Infiltrator’s Arrow to escape doesn’t make it a defensive skill. And if ArenaNet will be consistent, IF will have to require a target, just like Infiltrator’s Strike (Sword #2).

Also a minor clarification, Shadowstep has 50s CD, not 60s, which already includes the 10s swap time for Shadow Return.

stof.9341:

You forgot something : Can you actually do something in 10s only? I mean, lot’s of players go around with very tanky builds. 10s is seriously short to kill them.

If used appropriately, yes, 10s is good enough time to finishing off a target. Typically Heartseeker will finish a target off within the 10s window.

Azawrath.7304:

Which is why I think increasing the shadow return would benefit both play styles. Even if the player is running full glass cannon and you manage to down them, having other players AoE & CC the downed player is going to make the stomp incredibly hard to get and will cut your shadow return close.

Increasing the duration of Shadow Return might be a better option.

Another suggestion would be to put condition removal on both the shadowstep and the shadow return, this would be very strong but it would give thieves a solution for clearing burst conditions. Maybe 2 and 2?
EDIT: For condi burst I would say 3 on step and 3 when you step back, it might be pretty strong…

2/2 will either make it too weak (since it will only remove 2 conds) or too OP (removing 5 including stun). 3 is the magic number plus a stun break.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If used appropriately, yes, 10s is good enough time to finishing off a target. Typically Heartseeker will finish a target off within the 10s window.

Obviously, no matter how tanky the target is, you just need to wait for him to drop low enough in the first place and yeah, 10s is enough.

stof.9341:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If used appropriately, yes, 10s is good enough time to finishing off a target. Typically Heartseeker will finish a target off within the 10s window.

Obviously, no matter how tanky the target is, you just need to wait for him to drop low enough in the first place and yeah, 10s is enough.

Then again, I rarely use Shadowstep in that situation. Normally, Heartseeker will close the gap on its own and I’m simply using Shadowstep as a stun break if I get stun while in melee.

I cannot recall a time when I used it mainly to remove conditions, it’s just too valuable to use for that purpose.

Forget the stun break.

Clean two conditions on 1st jump, two conditions on 2nd jump.

MakubeC.3026:

Forget the stun break.

Clean two conditions on 1st jump, two conditions on 2nd jump.

I strongly disagree. I rather keep the stun break.

And be nice. Otherwise Azawrath.7304 will write you a long post to remind your to be nice.