Guild Wars 2

It is just me or now acro don’t give enought dodge . Done some tests , even with evading for feline grace i have like 1/3 less dodge than before when I had only 3 points.

Yep dodges is nerfed as hell

So my fast-paced gameplay is gone and i have either go glass canon or SA ;\, sad imo that as they wanted to repair game they force ppl into less amount of builds

I don’t think acro is that bad, we did lose a lot of survivability but gained a bit more offensive power from it.
But I do think that the real problem is to make the new acro work with some build, i feel like it alone isn’t enough for defense, especially against all the condi spam flying around now.

As a S/D thief main for just shy of a year, I couldn’t be more disappointed. The nerf to Feline Grace and the nerf to Vigor boon combined killed S/D power buids. 2sec of vigor from a successful evade with 1sec internal cooldown is absolutely unnoticeable. Feline Grace is in dire need of a buff. If you want to be viable as S/D currently, your forced to run shadow arts so u can sit in stealth and wait for endurance to regen naturally.

I am loving my s/d even more than before….as far as the acro nerf….have you looked into Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat stew?
100% Might on dodge, 40% to endurance rate…..

dave.5219:

I am loving my s/d even more than before….as far as the acro nerf….have you looked into Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat stew?
100% Might on dodge, 40% to endurance rate…..

This. This. This.

I’ve been running this food since day 1 of ever playing S/D thief and it’s hilarious. Paired with Strength runes = might on dodge… might for dayzzzz… dodges for dayzzzzz.

Tuebor.3864:

If you want to be viable as S/D currently, your forced to run shadow arts so u can sit in stealth and wait for endurance to regen naturally.

Try out Trickery instead. Flanking Strike + Trickster traits… and Haste utility.

I traded in my D/P for a shortbow about a week before the patch. And I stayed out of Acro so I would get used to not relying on dodge. DA/CS/Trick is causing enemies to drop like flies! ?

Zaerah.1630:

I don’t think acro is that bad, we did lose a lot of survivability but gained a bit more offensive power from it.
But I do think that the real problem is to make the new acro work with some build, i feel like it alone isn’t enough for defense, especially against all the condi spam flying around now.

Did you notice the part where acro doesn’t grant you 10% damage while endurance is not full? That, right there, =/= more offensive power, it actually equates to less.

Tuebor.3864:

As a S/D thief main for just shy of a year, I couldn’t be more disappointed. The nerf to Feline Grace and the nerf to Vigor boon combined killed S/D power buids. 2sec of vigor from a successful evade with 1sec internal cooldown is absolutely unnoticeable. Feline Grace is in dire need of a buff. If you want to be viable as S/D currently, your forced to run shadow arts so u can sit in stealth and wait for endurance to regen naturally.

As an S/D thief for well over a year and a half, why do you need dodges when you have 5k autos? you just can’t spam the evade button anymore, the change makes you have to be a lot more intelligent about how you engage and were from.

also been running; Deadly arts, Trickery, and Acro just fine. just be careful of condis

Zephyra.4709:

dave.5219:

I am loving my s/d even more than before….as far as the acro nerf….have you looked into Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat stew?
100% Might on dodge, 40% to endurance rate…..

This. This. This.

I’ve been running this food since day 1 of ever playing S/D thief and it’s hilarious. Paired with Strength runes = might on dodge… might for dayzzzz… dodges for dayzzzzz.

Are we sure that it stacks with Vigor though? I’ve read before that there is a cap on endurance regen, though I am totally alright with being wrong about that.

The Acrobatics specialization is way too dependent on Vigor. If you try to maximize your benefit from Endless Stamina, it feels like your heal skill and half of your traits have already been picked out for you. It’s odd that you gain so much Vigor from spamming Withdraw and Steal. If “skillful” play is important then Feline Grace should be the main source of Vigor.

It also doesn’t make sense that the Engineer can get more endurance regeneration from a single trait. Adrenal Implant provides +50% endurance regeneration without the need for Vigor or good timing.

They need to fix this. I can’t do my quick dodges to maintain swiftness and now my Thief feels like a slug. Some of the other classes got some pretty neat buffs, but Thiefs just got kitten-slapped. Why? I bet it had something to do with PvP, it’s always kitten PvP.

Zephyra.4709:

dave.5219:

I am loving my s/d even more than before….as far as the acro nerf….have you looked into Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat stew?
100% Might on dodge, 40% to endurance rate…..

This. This. This.

I’ve been running this food since day 1 of ever playing S/D thief and it’s hilarious. Paired with Strength runes = might on dodge… might for dayzzzz… dodges for dayzzzzz.

It never stacked with vigor because endurance regen capped at+100%. The 5secs of might from it was negligible. Omnomberry ghost was way more useful. Now i guess it helps more with the dodges but d/p is just better especially for wvw
. foods dont exist in spvp what most of us refer to. The fights are even there unlike wvw.

Maybe i didn’t say it but for me s/d is okay by now (not op , not worthless) .What i was aiming at with this topic is that they balanced whole acro around s/d so if i want to take acro for let’s say pve for more dodge with any other set than s/d it is completely unviable

Awaltir.5302:

So my fast-paced gameplay is gone and i have either go glass canon or SA ;\, sad imo that as they wanted to repair game they force ppl into less amount of builds

Seconded. I miss my slippery thief, it really made the class feel different from all the others.

This is beyond irritating, all the work ive put into acro thief since picking up the class last october is gone. I dont even have enough evades anymore to take on two people effectively.

Zephyra.4709:

This. This. This.

I’ve been running this food since day 1 of ever playing S/D thief and it’s hilarious. Paired with Strength runes = might on dodge… might for dayzzzz… dodges for dayzzzzz.

Might on dodge? Dude, they scrapped out Power of Inertia from the traits, we do not have anymore access to might on dodge.

The acro traitline has been seriously nerfed, ESPECIALLY when using runes of strength (that, sadly, I have). Our overall access to might in an acro build has been reduced to only Thrill of Crime, which gives us 70% might uptime, so it’s a nerf not only to survavibility (less endurance overall), but even damage.

Ofc we could get might with Bountiful theft, but that steal starts exactly when Thrill starts, so there’s no way we could “fill in” that 30% of no might.

Oh, and now even less boon duration than before. And less HPs.

Galandil.9641:

Zephyra.4709:

This. This. This.

I’ve been running this food since day 1 of ever playing S/D thief and it’s hilarious. Paired with Strength runes = might on dodge… might for dayzzzz… dodges for dayzzzzz.

Might on dodge? Dude, they scrapped out Power of Inertia from the traits, we do not have anymore access to might on dodge.

The acro traitline has been seriously nerfed, ESPECIALLY when using runes of strength (that, sadly, I have). Our overall access to might in an acro build has been reduced to only Thrill of Crime, which gives us 70% might uptime, so it’s a nerf not only to survavibility (less endurance overall), but even damage.

Ofc we could get might with Bountiful theft, but that steal starts exactly when Thrill starts, so there’s no way we could “fill in” that 30% of no might.

Oh, and now even less boon duration than before. And less HPs.

He meant Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew...
Was playing around with it some month ago with S/D acro. Got the duration from the might from food to like 8sec. We have less boon-duration now though.
Haven´t played that much with the new acro, but I don´t like the feeling for now. The vigor from feline grace is barely noticeable and I have to l2p with hard to catch (when to eat CC, when not). Pain response or vigorous recovery is weird to decide on what to take.

Coronit.9432:

He meant Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew...
Was playing around with it some month ago with S/D acro. Got the duration from the might from food to like 8sec. We have less boon-duration now though.
Haven´t played that much with the new acro, but I don´t like the feeling for now. The vigor from feline grace is barely noticeable and I have to l2p with hard to catch (when to eat CC, when not). Pain response or vigorous recovery is weird to decide on what to take.

My point (prob. I explained myself badly ^^) is that now the food is mandatory, thus it feels to me like a crutch to the whole Acro traitline, whereas before we didn’t need to have 100% might uptime (with more HPs, boon duration, dodges, etc.).

It’s undeniable that the whole traitline got nerfed quite too much, I’m not saying that Feline Grace should have been revisited, but this much PLUS all the other nerfs has been too much really.

Acro thieves took an arrow to the knee on this one.

Maugetarr.6823:

Acro thieves took an arrow to the knee on this one.

And one at the jugular as well, I might add. :\

Galandil.9641:

Maugetarr.6823:

Acro thieves took an arrow to the knee on this one.

And one at the jugular as well, I might add. :\

Well arrows to the knee make dodging the pewpew that much harder.

Kicker.8203:

d/p is just better especially for wvw

That’s my main problem with these Acro changes. D/P is better in every game mode (just imo) or it’s at least the most prevalent. Why nerf Acro, which is essentially an S/D nerf, under these circumstances? I get that dodge spam is annoying, but at least allow the sets to remain somewhat competitive with one another. Moving Cloaked in Shadows to the GM tier was a nerf to offhand dagger specs as well, most notably D/D. Again, I’m okay with those nerfs, if ANet feels they are necessary, but I just can’t help but feel it perpetuates D/P dominance.

If an acro thief is evading attacks and people argue dodge spam, the acro thief can argue he/she is knows when you are attacking so therefore evading. You can only prove dodge spam if you stop attacking and the thief continues evading seconds after.

So i ask again, how on earth can people prove evade spam. As someone who has fought many acro thieves, evade spam rarely works because once the opponent has identified you are spamming you will lose.

There was a case where i was surrounded by 2 rangers and another class, I had no choice but to start only evading, manually and with S/D for a few seconds to dodge the multiple rapid fires, point blanks and burst from the other person. The moment they had let up, i was able to cloak and dagger and escape. if i didnt do that it would have been back to respawn for me. Is that spam? no because i knew what i was doing and my evades were timed so why do I have to get punished for that?

Traiting for acro had two major benefits before that were ignored on the loss of attributes in the traitline.

It added 3k life. It added 30 percent boon duration. Any person who was building non stealth did in fact rely on that extra vitality and boon duration. While Feline grace was key its loss in addition to those two factors makes Acro underwheliming in its curret state. Tossed into that was the whammy of vigor being reduced in effectiveness by 50 percent.

Swiftness on dodge should be increased to 4 seconds adept trait one. We dodge less now and have less boon duration so 2 seconds does nothing.

Vigor on successful evade should be 4 seconds on 1 sec cooldown. Other classes can still get 100 percent vigor uptime and “successful evades” do not happen every time one dodges or evades. Further to that all evades either eat endurance (thus can not be spammed endlessly) or eat INI. Burning INI/end just for the sake of Vigor is not a successful tactic. It already “self limiting”

Endless stamina needs to be upped in its increase to vigor. 60 percent is a start. With the cut to vigor overall it still a net loss.

Hard to Catch is fine.

Pain response should see removal of toment. The cooldown is enough a limit on this skill to ensure there no immunity to torment.

Guarded initiation needs a rethink add Confusion to the mix and lower that threshold to 75 percent is one thought.

Up assassins reward heal given we can only get healing added through gear now no one is going to use gear for this skill and even old world with a modicum of healing it was underwhelming as a GM trait.

Yup.
Acro is a lot weaker, anybody can see that, and most of us who have been keeping up with this coming patch knew it was coming.. It could still be fun to play casually in solo queues or WvW, but it’s tourney days are over.
Most of our new traits are gimmicky and will probably never be used except for Swindlers, which is cool, on average its a 4-5 second reduction on your steal cooldown, but heres the thing
we only get 75% endurance regeneration

(It’s not adding, its multiplying our current regen which is 50%. —-— 50% of 50% is 25% i.e. 75% total a lot of people don’t understand that yet. )

We lost our 10% damage modifier (fluid strikes) as well as our condi cleanse since it competes with vigor on heal, which we are pretty much forced to slot considering how our dodges are tied directly to vigor uptime now. so really, with the way you’d need to trait it — acro offers very little survivability.
You could play sword dagger with crit strikes — but truth be told it would be too glassy for this meta.. You’d have difficulty dealing with heavy conditions and recovering from getting opened on by DP thieves ESPECIALLY because steal range was buffed to 1200, so no more escaping with shadow step.
the only time that I remember crit strikes S/D being used was when Lyssa runes were OP and infil return was instant cast — and that was almost a year ago. ALSO if you choose to go shadow arts, you lose out on blind on stealth now since it competes with shadow rejuvenation.
Anet could buff our vigor potency to 100% or 120% ( which they planned it to be originally ) and maybe combine endless stamina and feline grace to make pain response a minor? But i wouldn’t hold my breath for anet to come through and fix this.

All we S/D thieves can do is pray that the new thief specialization will have synergy with sword dagger and revive our weapon set when the expansion comes out.

Pfft, delete acro thief, delete pistol thief, stealth thief’s condi removal is garbage… So basically every thief build that requires more than 4 different skill usage is nerfed or gone. Only thing that works perfectly is the burst or die build. Maybe we should play something else; engineer, warrior, op-omg-wtf-mesmer or holycraparetheseconditionsreal-necro. You know, a profession that Anet likes.

I just can not see many going this traitline and it a shame since there some good traits that are orphaned .

I am going to make a couple of revised suggestions to ones previously made. I think we will need tweaks upward to endless stamina and the new vigor trait .

1) Swiftness. Thieves should have ample access to Swiftness and we lost that with assassins retreat gone and with the loss of boon duration coupled with less dodges that coupled together severely affected swiftness on dodge

Guarded initiative is underwhelming as it is so to address this

Change the first adept trait to 3 seconds super speed on dodge.

Add a modified assassins retreat to guarded initiative. Change skill to read " when guarded initiative removes any conditions gain 20 seconds swiftness"

Maybe upper hand could be the old feline grace. Just a flat “return 15 endurance on dodge.” Maybe with 2 minor traits and a major trait all devoted to dodging it’ll be recognised as fine.

Math for FG+ES+(proposed)UH:
(50-15)/(5*1.75)=35/8.75=4 seconds per dodge.

That’s still longer than the old FG+Vigor by 0.5 seconds.
Right now the marginal gains to survivability don’t come close to offsetting the damage lost from traiting out of CS. I can just just end the fight sooner by putting the other guy down faster and not worry about the lost dodges.

The loss of the 10 percent damage is one I had overlooked before in this traitline. That in and of itself is huge and will turn people away from the traitline. In order to take it the benefits from the traitline must be significant and those benefits just are not there.

Conspiracy that anet has a love affair with d/p thief, proven by its dominance since forever.

Joking aside though, the way I look at it… Feline Grace wasn’t nerfed. Feline Grace was DELETED. Pre-June 23, S/D thieves had perma vigor with Vigorous Recovery and Bountiful Theft thanks to acrobatics included boon duration. Post-June 23, thieves are sitting at +0% boon duration but we still have perma vigor because anet changed Feline Grace to fill the roll of the lost boon duration. The problem is, the old Feline Grace did something much more important than vigor. It made dodges only cost 35% endurance. With the old Feline Grace deleted, currently dodges cost 50% of endurance. The problem isn’t vigor… the problem is the up front cost of a single dodge.

To the thieves who are arguing the viability of the “new” Feline Grace with the addition of a nourishment… that’s not a solution. If anet were to perform a miracle and restore Feline Grace, we may live to see the days of S/D making it into the meta… imagine that.

Source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

I’m usually not one of those types that likes to flaunt the I told you so, but

I told you so. =(

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/new-changes-to-thief/first#post5000884

Day 3:

Feline Grace, please return to us. We miss you