Guild Wars 2

Metaform.4120:

Kasama.8941:

The only problem I have with the Thief is the next to permanent stealth builds (thanks to mainly Cloak and Dagger), which makes it impossible to play against, because you can’t counter something you can’t see.

This is not true. Here is why, from someone who leveled and geared a Thief to learn how to beat them.

A thief using Cloak and Dagger to stealth 90% of the time is extremely predictable and easy enough to counter. Why? Because CnD requires something to stab to gain stealth. If he’s using a player to CnD on, use your AoE or better, knockbacks, on your/their location. If he’s attacking PVE mobs or siege for his stealth, focus on those areas. CnD stealth lasts 3 seconds, 4 with traits. Count it out and use your abilities.

One good knockback, stun, series of critical hits when he’s stealthed or a mistake on his part and the games over. The Thief is either running, downed or low. Victory.

Oh and the “better” permanent stealth build uses d/p, smoke field on 5 and Heartseeker leap for stealth. This doesn’t require melee except to deal damage, blinds at the smoke field and makes escape incredibly easy because you can reapply stealth via pistol5+dagger2 combo while stealthed.

If you’re playing a melee build and getting trolled or beaten by a permanent stealth Thief, this is a “learn to play” issue. You don’t need a target to swing a melee weapon and deal damage or even down a Thief.

It’s not flawless, clever Thieves can still escape sometimes, but it’s a start for those feeling helpless.

aoe? no, doesn’t fix perma stealth from culling.

The problem with complaining about lack of “fun” while fighting a thief is that it also applies to other classes from the thieves perspective.

The problem with complaining about the thief using stealth to escape is that the thief didn’t kill you so it’s a no-win situation, it also assumes that you WOULD have killed the thief had they stuck around (which isn’t necessarily the case). This just highlights the fact that thieves drop their health really quickly and trigger the “run away” response which could be used as an indicator that… thieves have weak defense? But that was obvious, they sacrificed all their defense for offense and get dropped really quickly, but the real problem for people is “Oh kitten that guaranteed kill just got away” so based on this argument taken to its logical conclusion… buff thieves defense?

To give my answer to the OP’s question; because thieves have high single target damage, high mobility and stealth combined with their weaknesses being obvious but remaining unexploited by the people complaining on the forums. The people who DO exploit the thieves weaknesses in WvW/sPvP aren’t on the forums complaining about thieves, so it’s just a case of a dissatisfied vocal minority having no forum based counter because satisfied people show their satisfaction by not complaining on the forums.

People just don’t want to think and when fighting against thieves you have to think or else you will get beaten.

Probably because they are pretty much the anti-fun class in PvP. Getting 3 shotted by things that are invisible most of the time usually leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

This thread is becoming a waste of space… Same argument over and over… “Thieves are bad because they perma stealth and because of culling…”

Get used to it… It’s wvw, not spvp. You want balance, don’t come to wvw. And please, don’t come back with “It’s not fun, it’s not fair”, or something else that isn’t in our control….

Lofat.2406:

This thread is becoming a waste of space… Same argument over and over… “Thieves are bad because they perma stealth and because of culling…”

Get used to it… It’s wvw, not spvp. You want balance, don’t come to wvw. And please, don’t come back with “It’s not fun, it’s not fair”, or something else that isn’t in our control….

why do you think it’s fair for one class to dominate in wvw?

Columba.9730:

why do you think it’s fair for one class to dominate in wvw?

The bold totally shows your intent.

Thieves in no way shape or form dominate WvW but please give me a valid argument otherwise that they dominate in WvW rofl.

No one class dominates in WvW remember objectives=ppt PPT=Win. Kills=Badges or some other crappy loot like resin or claws.

If I had to chose between a warrior, guardian, ranger, thief to put on a ram during siege time the thief is the last class I would prefer on the ram.

oZii.2864:

The only thief specific nerf I am aware of that is different in sPvP is daze on tactical strike when you use a sigil of paralyzation. Other than that isn’t crit damage calculated different in sPvP which is not specific to just thieves.

How about 33% damage to CnD? That is a big nerf that’s PvP-only, CnD still hits for 5-6k in WvW.

There’s a lot more to WvWvW than using rams. How about giving thieves a special seige skill in exchange for increasing stealth cool downs? That might offset the huge advantage that culling gives thieves.

Red Falcon.8257:

oZii.2864:

The only thief specific nerf I am aware of that is different in sPvP is daze on tactical strike when you use a sigil of paralyzation. Other than that isn’t crit damage calculated different in sPvP which is not specific to just thieves.

How about 33% damage to CnD? That is a big nerf that’s PvP-only, CnD still hits for 5-6k in WvW.

Took me a minute to dig that up

I wasn’t playing thief when those changes came in started a bit after. I see it tactical strike damage increased 10% in all modes including wvw. Daze decreased to 1.5 in spvp only.

Cluster bomb reduced by 15% pvp only

Cloak and dagger reduced by 33% pvp only.

Even if they brought those changes over to WvW people would still complain because some people can’t chose what to complain about 1 second its stealth the next its damage. I run P/D so direct damage wouldn’t really bother me much if they brought it over to wvw. 50% reduction to the damage mug does and people will still complain I bet then more glass cannon thieves would run haste and signet of power.

Looking at those patch notes though from november 15th and what has happened almost 4 months later with no more nerfs then I think Anet is fine with where the thief is honestly. When they were asked at the livestream about 2 weeks ago they only said they were watching the bunker elementalists at the moment and mesmer portal. Threads like seem more like its just a place to vent.

With perma stealth due to culling, those were insufficient adjustments.

To people calling “culling” please learn how the old system worked before you make yourself look like an idiot.

I had a condi engi call me trash since he beat me on my thief out of the blue lmao. No confrontation before that or anything. Just a sudden “get pwned noob”. I mean, nearly all his attacks are AOEs and keep a heavy stream of conditions coming my way steadily eroding my 14k health pool. And I downed him immediately after I was downed. I laughed it off since I was SUPPOSED to lose in that situation, came close to actually winning, and he felt like a big shot for so narrowly defeating me.

As a thief you can never win. You are always cheap and a noob if you win; cheap and a noob if you lose.

Playing the class carries the stigma that you suck. That’s my gripe with this community, but it’s an idea and ideas are nearly impossible to change, especially when they are allowed to propogate in an environment where people are looking for any excuse to blame another for their inadequacies.

hard to blame people. my guild has people who play thieves. they admit that the class is op in wvwvw and brag about how well they can troll the enemy. I feel sorry for them in pve though.

Lofat.2406:

Columba.9730:

There’s a lot more to WvWvW than using rams. How about giving thieves a special seige skill in exchange for increasing stealth cool downs? That might offset the huge advantage that culling gives thieves.

I don’t see any huge advantage? Do you oZii? How do thieves dominate wvw again? I think he needs to l2p against thieves. But he won’t, he will qq till he gets his way or stop playing.

Columba is out to turn every stealth, thief, culling, thread into a nerf thread for thieves – you’ve likely seen his post history – it’s about 18 pages of 1 line comments having a dig at thieves or rants like this where he goes off on one about culling, stealth and the damage thieves do.

Columba – give it a rest, at this point, you said no one complains about rangers or engineers being op? and that 90% of the complaints about professions are about thieves?

guess what – 90% of the complaints on the boards about thieves are yours

thieves don’t dominate – they’re annoying but so are you —-

(dear moderator, i will take my infraction on the chin now thank you -)

i think most are frustrated because we stealth in order to get away and deny them an easy kill ….

silvershadez.8421:

You don’t need stealth to stay alive. I could beat a warrior with ease without stealth at any day. Just pick a D/D condi spec and time your evasive moves right. Theres nothing the warrior can do about it.

Lmao this made my day
So funny he thinks so.
A “Volley” and “Kill Shot” both landing will kill you, if you dodge one of them then Whirlwind Attack takes away atleast 25% hp. As soon as I see the reveal buff I can take um down,
So no I seriously doubt a thief without stealth can beat me

Causic.3798:

Lmao this made my day
So funny he thinks so.
A “Volley” and “Kill Shot” both landing will kill you, if you dodge one of them then Whirlwind Attack takes away atleast 25% hp. As soon as I see the reveal buff I can take um down,
So no I seriously doubt a thief without stealth can beat me

Want to put some money behind those words?
I never ever lost to a Warrior in 5 months of GW2. Seriously.
Thief’s mobility/evasiveness > Warrior’s bugged mobility skills and poor damage mitigation skills.
No need for stealth to punish a poor Warrior sadly.

thief is only class who have no cds on big burst dmg abilities, such backstab (4-6k) and heartseeker (2-4k). i suggest cd 1sec on heartseeker and they will be normalized. because after backstab all thieves just spaming 2-2-2-2 dodge dont help because if you dodge 2 hs you get 2 plus they start to spam backstab again (while they regenerate intiate).
so to solve problems give HS 1sec cd, and backstab to 1 1/4 slow speed like hammer guardian final attack)) cheers.

oneleggedpony.8531:

Lofat.2406:

Columba.9730:

There’s a lot more to WvWvW than using rams. How about giving thieves a special seige skill in exchange for increasing stealth cool downs? That might offset the huge advantage that culling gives thieves.

I don’t see any huge advantage? Do you oZii? How do thieves dominate wvw again? I think he needs to l2p against thieves. But he won’t, he will qq till he gets his way or stop playing.

Columba is out to turn every stealth, thief, culling, thread into a nerf thread for thieves – you’ve likely seen his post history – it’s about 18 pages of 1 line comments having a dig at thieves or rants like this where he goes off on one about culling, stealth and the damage thieves do.

Columba – give it a rest, at this point, you said no one complains about rangers or engineers being op? and that 90% of the complaints about professions are about thieves?

guess what – 90% of the complaints on the boards about thieves are yours

thieves don’t dominate – they’re annoying but so are you —-

(dear moderator, i will take my infraction on the chin now thank you -)

QFT,
Should be nominated for the monthly best post award

frans.8092:

oneleggedpony.8531:

Lofat.2406:

Columba.9730:

There’s a lot more to WvWvW than using rams. How about giving thieves a special seige skill in exchange for increasing stealth cool downs? That might offset the huge advantage that culling gives thieves.

I don’t see any huge advantage? Do you oZii? How do thieves dominate wvw again? I think he needs to l2p against thieves. But he won’t, he will qq till he gets his way or stop playing.

Columba is out to turn every stealth, thief, culling, thread into a nerf thread for thieves – you’ve likely seen his post history – it’s about 18 pages of 1 line comments having a dig at thieves or rants like this where he goes off on one about culling, stealth and the damage thieves do.

Columba – give it a rest, at this point, you said no one complains about rangers or engineers being op? and that 90% of the complaints about professions are about thieves?

guess what – 90% of the complaints on the boards about thieves are yours

thieves don’t dominate – they’re annoying but so are you —-

(dear moderator, i will take my infraction on the chin now thank you -)

QFT,
Should be nominated for the monthly best post award

me gusta ! (you know what that means, don’t you ?)
on topic: as long as stealth/currents skills exist in this form, we are just gonna be hated to the max. period.
no one seems to care that i need to melee with med armor and lowest hp pool ….

deathblossom/caltrop builds are the only thing i have an issue with,
everyone getting 20 AoE stacks of bleed from someone whos invisible or unattackable is pretty ridiculous lol.

Liewec.2896:

deathblossom/caltrop builds are the only thing i have an issue with,
everyone getting 20 AoE stacks of bleed from someone whos invisible or unattackable is pretty ridiculous lol.

Caltrops bleed only lasts 3 seconds and does relatively little damage (240ish over 3 seconds on a berserker build). Solution? Don’t stand in the caltrops…

As for DB, that can do 1600-2000 i think over 5 seconds through 3 stacks of bleed. Now this is a killer, but you should know that the average thief using this skill is going to spam it. In which case, they can only use it 2 times (Since the nerf) in a row, that’s very easy to dodge from. If they run 15 points into Trickery, that will allow them to spam it 3 times in a row.

As for the invisibility, you should be able to anticipate that if a thief stealths around you, he or she is PROBABLY going to follow up with an attack. So just dodge away from their last known location.

Liewec.2896:

deathblossom/caltrop builds are the only thing i have an issue with,
everyone getting 20 AoE stacks of bleed from someone whos invisible or unattackable is pretty ridiculous lol.

Seriously don’t stand in the circle. If the thief drops them on you move out of the caltrops. The problem I always see is thief drops cals person leaves circle were the caltrops are thief stands around his caltrops because thats smart to do. Person runs back into caltrops to kill thief rofl.

I run condi build thief with P/D and I don’t even run caltrops anymore because most people are smart enough now to not stand in them anymore.

Columba.9730:

thieves hit me far harder than warriors ever do. it’s easy to avoid warrior high dps shots. thieves should have a stealth debuff after attacking.

They have.

Seriously, create a thief, go to the mists and see for yourself if it is really that easy to kill everybody in three seconds.

Liewec.2896:

deathblossom/caltrop builds are the only thing i have an issue with,
everyone getting 20 AoE stacks of bleed from someone whos invisible or unattackable is pretty ridiculous lol.

Lol, keep standing in caltrops because then you can come down here and complain about thief? There is no counter for players who are so bad.

It’s a single 3 second bleed, which gives 3 stacks max, 6 with full +duration, never 20. You’re full of nonsense.

brunohstein.9038:

They have.

That depends on the method you used to enter stealth. Most, but not every stealth move has the revealed state at the end.

If they aren’t overpowered, why is pvp filled with them? food for thought. they aren’t playing them because they’re pretty.

wayneericgouin.9371:

If they aren’t overpowered, why is pvp filled with them? food for thought. they aren’t playing them because they’re pretty.

hot join?

The top team in QP is running a full Thief team. You are right we need a nerf.

ubtri.7092:

I enjoyified your rizant. I’m new to GW2 and chose Thief because hiding in darkness is neat-o. I’m only lvl 36 so far but it’s been a blastypoo.

you’re exactly how I expect a thief player to talk like.

“heartseeker Weeeeeee!”

Hello,

As this thread is not inviting to construcctive and healthy discussion, it is now closed.

Furthermore, there is already a dedicated thread about the thief in this sub-forum.

Thank you.