Guild Wars 2

When a backstab/basilisk venom thief goes stealth hes predictable he gonna attack @ your back he can only stun you for 1.5secs and there are many breakstun skills in Gw2 and cooldowns isnt that long unlike in WoW and thieves can’t compete toe to toe against warriors and guardian without retreating and resetting fights/initiatives then re-engage unlike in Rogue in WoW has this Stun Lock rotation Cheap Shot, muti, muti, kidney shot, muti, gouge, ( regenerate some of your energy ) then follow up with a muti and / or Envenom. Target should be dead and y a can prolly compete toe to toe againts warriors and guardians. . . if gonna chose Rogues in WoW are a way way stronger than rogue/thief in GW2

Zoltreez.6435:

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

That is because his Heal was ready… (you know he can use it while stealthed, and he also has a heal that stealthes him… on 30 sec cooldown)

A thief traited for it regens 300 per sec if we go by base hp 10,8k (most thieves run around 15-18k) it would take him like 35 seconds to go from 0 to 100%… yea kitten OP regen….

Yeah I don’t use stealth on my p/p thief unless there is a zerg approaching and I’m extremely desperate then I’ll blow my remaining initiative on a black powder and a heart seeker or two just so they move along.

In other games, stealth is an art that makes my blood boil when I know someone who is good at it is approaching. In gws it’s the sort of thing that makes me sigh as I have to exchange blows with two asura thieves stealthing and attacking in sequence.

I really wish Anet would sit down and spend some time with the thief class because it’s over reliance on stealth is gimmicky to say the least. You reach a point where you have no problem fighting thieves, but they’re still frustrating to fight.

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Your single heal is more than enough sustain to outlive a thief who does nothing but stealth.

Icarus Pherae.4680:

Clearly someone has ruffled your feathers, if my post came off as “elitist” or inflammatory I apologize, it was not my intent. No worries my horse is quite similarly sized with your’s. I never claimed people are bad…

Ye’ blatantly stated that the average player is so terrible that he or she would blindly complain without rhyme or reason, and of course excluded yourself from that group. In what light could that not be interpreted as elitist?

Icarus Pherae.4680:

I even agreed that permastealth is frustrating, however as someone who does main a thief I can say that they have very little survivability, unless you trait into acrobatics, then it is a little better. When I do pvp…

I kind of agree yet don’t, I think permastealth is fine if there are in-combat counters to it, and solely interrupts do not suffice. High end players will always have those niche tells you mentioned, but the most common player need basic concepts of play and counterplay which apply over a broad base of abilities. They are going to add one (or possibly several) soon, but in my opinion it is in the worst way possible. Look how frustrating Condis and Boons are to most players? Either the current meta uses them and players are forced to take condi and boon breakers, or it isn’t and they do not. Either you have slotted these abilities, and they provide unengaging and invisible counterplay, or you do not and you have a weak build. That is counterplay, but the least fun way implementing it one could possibly do, and it is exactly how stealth counterplay is about to be made to work.

Yes I know thieves are not contributing much of anything to a win in SPvP, in fact they don’t even really contribute to a win in WvW. But they are still no fun to play against in either mode. And their unviability (not a word :P) in those modes has nothing to do with the classes power level, it has everything to do with that power being placed in areas that contribute nothing to the game modes win condition.

Icarus Pherae.4680:

Out of curiosity, which profession do you enjoy playing the most? Perhaps some players could give you advice on how to counter thieves specifically. I have a few 80s but I really have only done pvp with a thief, but perhaps I could tell you how I often find your favorite class beating me, and maybe that could help?

SD Tank/Condi Glyph Elementalist, yep terrible build, but it’s fun and I make it work

But I won’t lie, every single thief encounter ends exactly the same, they attack me once, I use Updraft>Ring of Fire>Phoenix>Dragon’s Tooth>GoEP>Earthquake>Stone Shards two or three times all while the thief is on the ground. I have used my two interrupts, have no chains, and Arc Lightning will allow me to see him but deals virtually no damage and doesn’t stop his stealth from immediately clearing either my burning or bleeding, halving my actual damage source. I throw out my fire elementals. Three seconds later the second clears and the thief has healed, immediately tries another backstab Dodgeroll>dust Devil>kite until he commits>Ring of Fire>Dragon’s Tooth>Phoenix if it’s up yet>GoS>Earthquake>Churning Earth.

He has a really long duration blind, about 10 stacks of bleeding and burning. Basically he’s cornered.

Until he dodges, stealths, and I never see him again. Sometimes I can RTL (but usually I’ve had to use that already to get in or out of range) then backdraft, but that locks me in * TADA * air and water attunement, which deal no damage. And no, I do not just play the elementalist, the majority of builds across the game seem to end like this. You either build full power and burst the thief to death in one interrupt, or you build full disable/tank and attrition him to death. Other than those two extremes, thief fights for most builds play out as illustrated above, and that is not okay.

coglin.1867:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

I have no problem destroying thieves all day. Simply because you have not learned how to do so with your preferred profession doesn’t make stealth OP. It just displays a common pattern of how folks like to blame their inabilities on anything but their inabilities.

What might serve you better is to focus on developing a solution instead of complaining about the problem and transferring blame.

Oh and by the way, stealth was not balanced in WoW in the least if you ask me. But again, that is a matter of perception.

The problem though is that new players can’t understand this and so they come to the forums to post.

Incurafy.6329:

Also, LOL @ Sanduskal posting his usual kitten about how stealth is a scrub crutch (only scrubs don’t use every mechanic to their advantage), and now spreading lies that you canaattack while stealthed and remain in stealth without any explanation or evidence.

I think we ignored him for too long. Our bad :/

Zoltreez.6435:

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

Can’t have all this stuff dude. Burst OR stealth OR heals. Choose.

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Incurafy.6329:

Sarrs.4831:

Lafiel.9372:

To be fair, I think damage should reveal stealth though or at least show faint trails of it.

IMO stealth just needs counters.

I kinda wonder why a few things aren’t part of the Boon/Condition system; Stealth, Revealed and Quickness are some of them. Being able to directly remove or flip Stealth with things like Well of Corruption, Acidic Elixirs, Null Field might work.

I am so sick of hearing that stealth needs counters, IT ALREADY HAS COUNTERS. If it didn’t have counters then no one would be able to counter it, but surprise surprise, a huge amount of players can!

Also, LOL @ Sanduskal posting his usual kitten about how stealth is a scrub crutch (only scrubs don’t use every mechanic to their advantage), and now spreading lies that you canaattack while stealthed and remain in stealth without any explanation or evidence.

I guess you rely on perma stealth. It’s ok, some people have to rely on that.

there is nothing wrong with stealth in this game. It is a L2P issue, but Anet just had to give whiners what they wanted.

No I do not main a thief. I just kill lots of them easily.

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

You don’t even know what damage mitigation is.

Conncept.7638:

I think you are twisting words because you have seen a lot of rude/elistist thief players, but I will not change my stance on the matter to be honest. All I said was that people jump on the nerf bandwagon when they don’t understand a profession, which is the truth, stupidity=/= lack of understanding. In that situation I can’t see how I could include myself in that group, since I have been playing as a thief since launch, I understand its limitations, and to include myself would not only make zero sense, but it would be disingenuous. There is a strong mob mentality, and it is frankly easier to call for a nerf than it is to learn how to overcome the challenge presented to you. If I got stomped by a thief, and then I sign into the forums and see a thread where someone else was complaining about it, it is instant validation, and the band wagon grows. So no I am not saying the majority of the playerbase is stupid, because the majority of players are like you and I, they understand thieves, instead I am saying there is a very vocal minority that either does not understand them from lack of experience or lack of effort. Sure the “nerf stealth” threads pop up all the time, but they don’t flood the forums, and I don’t think I have ever seen a single one on the reddit. Which, to me at least, suggests that people might be more frustrated with the bunker engies and guardians that need 2 or more people to kill in spvp right now, than the thief who really only has S/D, S/P, and maybe D/P for useful builds right now. Two of those aren’t even stealth builds.

There is a large reason why a lot of people keep saying “try a thief out, and you can learn to counter it” because that is what people do, and it has nothing to do with being a “noob” or a crappy player, If I have only ever played guardian, and I went and beat all the content in pve, and got a legendary, etc. I would still only understand the name of thief skills and roughly what they do from other thieves on my team, or having them used against me in the heat of battle. If I was somehow having trouble against thieves, wouldn’t it be reasonable to try to see what was so great about them?

I guess I am sort of confused, because in one hand you chastise me for some supposed superiority complex, and in the other seem to rather smugly announce that thieves are easy to counter, which was more or less what I was saying. I understand you are basically saying that they are pretty easy to beat, just not fun to play against, which itself is also an odd thing to get so worked up about. I find mesmers horrid to fight, with all of their clones, and the current condi meta, they can be quite impossible at times. There is also just about any bunker build in spvp right now, as a thief you might as well run away, which leads me to my next query. You seem frustrated that the player stealths and runs away from you. So are you just upset that you don’t get to finish them off? If seems silly to expect a person to just give up and let you beat them when they are playing what the devs want to be the most slippery class in the game. You should have to hunt them down, that’s the point, its like being mad that warriors have higher armor than you.

Funny enough the part you mentioned about having to build full burst or attrition condis, is the same dilemma thieves face, except their burst can’t touch bunker builds, and their condi cleanse is weak enough that they can’t really deal with drawn out condi fights. Right now just about all a thief can do usually is run away from some builds, which is a sign of weakness in the profession. I would not blame a smart player from running away and resetting combat when he is beaten, as that is a smart thing to do, and is the basic design philosophy behind the thief, they don’t have the health or armor to stay toe-to-toe with most classes, and they are forced into melee range 9/10.

I mained a rogue in WoW, and I hate the way thief plays in GW2.

During WotLK, I remember running around and whipping out a couple cooldowns to OHKO a squishy or stunlock anything that wasn’t a tank to death. That was on my death knight, warrior, and paladin. Rogue, if you didn’t sneak around, single out a target, and control the fight, you lost.

So in WoW, the slow melee classes that walked around in the open would OHKO you if you missed your silence / blink / etc. In GW2, the more mobile, stealthy can also spec into the best attrition or burst in the game.

Sanduskel.1850:

Incurafy.6329:

Sarrs.4831:

Lafiel.9372:

To be fair, I think damage should reveal stealth though or at least show faint trails of it.

IMO stealth just needs counters.

I kinda wonder why a few things aren’t part of the Boon/Condition system; Stealth, Revealed and Quickness are some of them. Being able to directly remove or flip Stealth with things like Well of Corruption, Acidic Elixirs, Null Field might work.

I am so sick of hearing that stealth needs counters, IT ALREADY HAS COUNTERS. If it didn’t have counters then no one would be able to counter it, but surprise surprise, a huge amount of players can!

Also, LOL @ Sanduskal posting his usual kitten about how stealth is a scrub crutch (only scrubs don’t use every mechanic to their advantage), and now spreading lies that you canaattack while stealthed and remain in stealth without any explanation or evidence.

I guess you rely on perma stealth. It’s ok, some people have to rely on that.

Oh wow dude, you’re right, the detailed evidence-based method to remain in stealth while attacking that you just explained definitely sounds like an exploit! You should report that to Anet ASAP so that they can fix it! Make sure to show them your evidence when you do!

i have reported it for months. they don’t seem to care. some of us don’t need to scrub it up with perma stealth builds. sorry if that angers you.

Sanduskel.1850:

i have reported it for months. they don’t seem to care. some of us don’t need to scrub it up with perma stealth builds. sorry if that angers you.

1. Read this, it applies directly to you: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
2. It’s weird that they haven’t done anything about it yet, you have so much evidence and a really detailed explanation for it as posted above, maybe they’re just really busy? :/

Sanduskel.1850:

i have reported it for months. they don’t seem to care. some of us don’t need to scrub it up with perma stealth builds. sorry if that angers you.

Now permastealth thieves can attack while maintaining stealth? I’ve gotta learn how to do this! Can you post a training video? Preferably on all five of your thief alts.

Maugetarr.6823:

Sanduskel.1850:

i have reported it for months. they don’t seem to care. some of us don’t need to scrub it up with perma stealth builds. sorry if that angers you.

Now permastealth thieves can attack while maintaining stealth? I’ve gotta learn how to do this! Can you post a training video? Preferably on all five of your thief alts.

I feel like we should be adding /sarcasm tags, it seems to be going straight over his head, lol.

Incurafy.6329:

Maugetarr.6823:

Sanduskel.1850:

i have reported it for months. they don’t seem to care. some of us don’t need to scrub it up with perma stealth builds. sorry if that angers you.

Now permastealth thieves can attack while maintaining stealth? I’ve gotta learn how to do this! Can you post a training video? Preferably on all five of your thief alts.

I feel like we should be adding /sarcasm tags, it seems to be going straight over his head, lol.

What?! Me?! Sarcastic?! Never!

My 2 cents.

- Stealth doesn’t have a counter yet (unless you count the wvw trap). It only has workarounds.
- Thieves =/= backstab+permastealth
- “OMG everyone can beat thieves, I play an ele without armor and have an oakheart branch equipped and still can kill them. L2P noob!” Question: if everyone can beat a thief, why are you guys still here on the forum defending the class? Why are people still playing thieves if they are that bad?
- Mitigation… I’d say that totally avoiding damage is lessening in severity or intensity. And although you take damage in stealth, it is a means of avoiding damage.

nagymbear.5280:

My 2 cents.

- Stealth doesn’t have a counter yet (unless you count the wvw trap). It only has workarounds.
- Thieves =/= backstab+permastealth
- “OMG everyone can beat thieves, I play an ele without armor and have an oakheart branch equipped and still can kill them. L2P noob!” Question: if everyone can beat a thief, why are you guys still here on the forum defending the class? Why are people still playing thieves if they are that bad?
- Mitigation… I’d say that totally avoiding damage is lessening in severity or intensity. And although you take damage in stealth, it is a means of avoiding damage.

I agree on some points, but you realize that being able to defeat another player using a certain profession doesn’t make that profession bad, it just shows that it isn’t as OP as many people claim. I would say stealth has counters, I would also point out that it is the only “class mechanic” (yes I know technically not a thief mechanic, but they are balanced around it) that has been singled out by the dev team for a trap that removes it. If stealth counters continue to pile up, I think it is only fair if we start seeing ways to significantly disadvantage other professions as well. Ways to lock eles in one attunement, ways to prevent clone/illusion production on a mesmer, ways to stop kit use on engies, banishing ranger pets, and heck let’s bring deep wounds back, that would be a good way to counter high health professions.

Understand that I realize thieves have their initiative, and a high amount of mobility without stealth (I have mentioned before that my pvp build doesn’t use any at all and I do alright), but for a profession that wasn’t supposed to be designed around stealth….it is balanced around stealth pretty significantly, so seeing specific counters only popping up against the thief (let’s be honest how often does mesmer stealth play a significant role in combat) it makes people who play thieves feel targeted, singled out, and in turn often makes them hostile.

Icarus Pherae.4680:

nagymbear.5280:

…

I agree on some points, but you realize that being able to defeat another player using a certain profession doesn’t make that profession bad, it just shows that it isn’t as OP as many people claim. I would say stealth has counters, I would also point out that it is the only “class mechanic” (yes I know technically not a thief mechanic, but they are balanced around it) that has been singled out by the dev team for a trap that removes it. If stealth counters continue to pile up, I think it is only fair if we start seeing ways to significantly disadvantage other professions as well. Ways to lock eles in one attunement, ways to prevent clone/illusion production on a mesmer, ways to stop kit use on engies, banishing ranger pets, and heck let’s bring deep wounds back, that would be a good way to counter high health professions.

Understand that I realize thieves have their initiative, and a high amount of mobility without stealth (I have mentioned before that my pvp build doesn’t use any at all and I do alright), but for a profession that wasn’t supposed to be designed around stealth….it is balanced around stealth pretty significantly, so seeing specific counters only popping up against the thief (let’s be honest how often does mesmer stealth play a significant role in combat) it makes people who play thieves feel targeted, singled out, and in turn often makes them hostile.

I think mesmer veil was the main reason for the stealth trap, and not thief stealth. I never actually saw a stealth trap go off since it was introduced, although I play on a rank 21 server. I don’t think sick’em will change anything. Also do remember that thieves shouted untill the whole idea of getting revealed on stealth ending no matter why was dismissed completely. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just scrap that idea. 2 reasons, many people play thieves, and rangers have a history of being kittened by patches, even if some people try to play a martyr quoting patchnotes to show how bad thieves have been nerfed.

Conncept.7638:

Icarus Pherae.4680:

Conncept.7638:

Zoltreez.6435:

in my opinion there is only 1 prob with stealth in this game
the amount of heals they are getting while constantly stealthed.

they have HUGE burst dmg ? fine
spammable stealth ? Fine

but kitten the healing is too much you got him down to almost death ? no prob stealth spamm and full hp again while he constantly opening with Huge burst dmg on you you got him almost again ? stealth full HP again hoops you died now……..

If thieves couldn’t heal or clear conditions during stealth, it would be balanced even without stealth breakers. In fact there might be room for some slight buffs to the mechanic if anything.

If they couldn’t remove condis with stealth the only removal they would have would be sword 2 and shadowstep… As has been mentioned before in this thread thieves rely a lot on stealth to survive. The sad truth is that those who complain about thieves now, will complain about them no matter what, since even if their requested were answered, and stealth was removed entirely from the game, thieves would be compensated with higher damage/more evades/other survival methods and “STUPID OP THIEVES” would still be the words of their house… permastealth can be frustrating, but honestly thieves are made of wet tissue paper.

Obviously there would have to be rebalancing, as I stated, which you ignored.

And frankly, your post is nothing but air, a load of assumptions typical of an elitist. Get off your high horse. Because people do not have the same opinion as you, does not mean they know nothing about the game, are looking to make it worse or simpler, or are ‘baddies’. I can’t remember the last time I lost to a thief in WvW or even saw one contribute much of anything in SPvP.

Regardless of that, they are not fun to play against, only to play as. And for anybody looking out for the greater health of the game at large, that cannot be okay.

When the thief allows for a fun and balanced trade of skill between itself and it’s opponents, I will stop complaining, as will most players. You and those like you however, will continue eternally to complain about how everyone isn’t good enough to breathe the same air or walk the same ground as you.

It is too easy to say take away X but too many in your camp refuse to compensate. Until they change our mobility and make evasion and assassin play more viable stealth has to stay or this class is worthless.

Atlest in wow the rogue class was one of the strongest in pvp, where as at higher skill lvl the thief is currently mid/weak atm

thieves aren’t mid to weak in pvp, lol.

At higher skill lvl they are ;]

This thread is dumb.. why are you comparing A gw2 theif that has 5 weapon skills and relies on gorilla tactics to fight vs a wow rouge that has 30+ actionbar abilities and relies on stuns to fight? Also I don’t see the big problem with stealth right now other than the D/P perma stealth exploit. Stealth on it’s own is fine, nerfing it or taking it away would destroy a class that already has no other reliable condition removal, or stability, or surviveability. Also thieves do contribute a lot to WvW. They can solo camps, intercept yaks all over the map easier than any other class, pull enemies off tower walls, assassinate commanders trying to lead zergs, cap bloodlust points, and scout for commanders. They don’t do as well in large zergs because other than dagger storm they don’t have any meaningful AoE, which is probably why people don’t see their usefulness in WvW. The class relies on stealth, out of stealth we can do damage but can’t survive, in stealth we can survive but not do damage. If you take away one then the other is going to need a large increase. Either way people always complain about stealth in every MMO.

I can survive on my thief out of stealth, lol

Surviving out of stealth and having survivability is different. Thieves don’t have protection, retailiation, aegis, block, or stability(except for an elite that takes away all your abilities and is worthless against melee) on hand. Stealth is the Thieves survivability.

Don’t forget evades and mobility!

Sanduskel.1850:

Don’t forget evades and mobility!

can you link a video of some 1vs2 1vs3 against decent players?
I’d like to learn your playstyle.

Mathias.9657:

Kaizer.7135:

Mathias.9657:

…PS: refuge only used when ally is down.

Sure it is, lol.

Refuge in a 1v1 or on a point is the mark of a bad thief, the only thing refuge is good for is rezzing someone. I used to use it for myself all the time but it would be on cooldown when it really counted, so it mostly goes unused but it’s invaluable for team fights.

I consider it the same cheese as a paladin using bubble in WoW, it shouldn’t be used selfishly.

I win most of my 1v1’s and I carry SR. I constantly move around whilst in it avoiding enemy attacks, it acts as a second heal and grants might stacks. I rarely get knocked out of SR or downed within’ it, you just need to know how to position yourself.

Anyway, are you a support thief or something? I don’t know of any sane thief player that uses a utility spot for solely for rezzing allies and honestly, only a bad thief would. Because enemies know EXACTLY where you are since you’ll be rezzing.

lul

Kaizer.7135:

I don’t know of any sane thief player that uses a utility spot for solely for rezzing allies and honestly, only a bad thief would. Because enemies know EXACTLY where you are since you’ll be rezzing.

lul

Shadow Refuge denies finishing moves, as long as the downed person doesn’t keep attacking through it. I use it for that purpose fairly often if I bring it along.

Imagi.4561:

Kaizer.7135:

I don’t know of any sane thief player that uses a utility spot for solely for rezzing allies and honestly, only a bad thief would. Because enemies know EXACTLY where you are since you’ll be rezzing.

lul

Shadow Refuge denies finishing moves, as long as the downed person doesn’t keep attacking through it. I use it for that purpose fairly often if I bring it along.

And people that are finishing should cancel the animation and lay down damage, thieves are squishy. You’d be dead before you can rez, unless the enemy player is just stupid.

I run double stunbreak so I have no need for a 3rd utility (for myself), and SR gets rez off a lot of the time in tpvp.

SR grants might stacks? Lol you clearly have no place to talk if you are still playing stealth. L2meta, SR is nothing more than group utility for stealth ganks and rez.

Kaizer.7135:

Imagi.4561:

Kaizer.7135:

I don’t know of any sane thief player that uses a utility spot for solely for rezzing allies and honestly, only a bad thief would. Because enemies know EXACTLY where you are since you’ll be rezzing.

lul

Shadow Refuge denies finishing moves, as long as the downed person doesn’t keep attacking through it. I use it for that purpose fairly often if I bring it along.

And people that are finishing should cancel the animation and lay down damage, thieves are squishy. You’d be dead before you can rez, unless the enemy player is just stupid.

Shadow Refuge is situational, like most support skills, but it’s phenomenal under the right circumstances.

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Give us an example.

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Give us an example.

Black Powder
Dodge x3 (if you aren’t deep in acro you are also doing it wrong)
Pain Response
Evade from S/P 3
Evade from S/D 3 + the boon it steals
Shortbow 3
Teleports from sword 2 and shadowstep which also happen to remove 1 and 3x condi respectively
Lyssa runes with bask venom
All bundles stolen give some form of mitigation – blind,reflect,fear,boons

We are just missing a reliable form of stability. (besides dagger storm trololo)

Just to be clear, anything that causes you to take less damage would be considered mitigation which includes stuns. So to say or think thief has zero is ridiculous because we have a ton.

thief also have a roll in group fight to finish the back line who just got stomproll by the frontline
i am doing it with SB cluster bomb 3-4k aoe spamming dmg

i am using more the evades/dodges abilities than the stealth which is used mainly to gain power burst or to get out safely from zergy situations

i think the only problem is with the d/p exploit so if stealth can be stacks up to 4 seconds it will solve to problem . but without stleath at all (even with hp buff) we will be just weak warrior like

Mathias.9657:

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Give us an example.

Black Powder (Avoidance)
Dodge x3 (if you aren’t deep 15 in acro you are also doing it wrong won’t get them)(Avoidance)
Pain Instinctual Response (Avoidance)
Evade from S/P 3 (Avoidance)
Evade from S/D 3 (Avoidance)+ the boon it steals (mitigation depending on boon stolen)
Shortbow 3 (Avoidance)
Teleports from sword 2 and shadowstep which also happen to remove 1 and 3x condi respectively (OMG some mitigation!)
Lyssa runes (not class specific therefore null) with bask venom (CC not mitigation)
All bundles stolen give some form of mitigation – blind,reflect,fear,boons (the only mitigation from stealing is Eat Egg, Drink and Consume Plasma)

We are just missing a reliable form of stability. (besides dagger storm trololo)

Just to be clear, anything that causes you to take less damage would be considered mitigation which includes stuns. So to say or think thief has zero is ridiculous because we have a ton.

Sanduskel: I’m still waiting for you to explain, with proof, how to attack from stealth without being revealed.

Surely you can explain it and you weren’t… well, lying?

Imagi.4561:

Kaizer.7135:

Imagi.4561:

Kaizer.7135:

I don’t know of any sane thief player that uses a utility spot for solely for rezzing allies and honestly, only a bad thief would. Because enemies know EXACTLY where you are since you’ll be rezzing.

lul

Shadow Refuge denies finishing moves, as long as the downed person doesn’t keep attacking through it. I use it for that purpose fairly often if I bring it along.

And people that are finishing should cancel the animation and lay down damage, thieves are squishy. You’d be dead before you can rez, unless the enemy player is just stupid.

Shadow Refuge is situational, like most support skills, but it’s phenomenal under the right circumstances.

Most utilities are situational lol

EDIT: Spelling

Crawford.4135:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

If WoW had the stealth GW2 had, it would make the Rogues in WoW insanely over powered.

Being able to stealth IN COMBAT is what makes Stealth in this game very overpowering.

Take my stealth, ok — GIVE ME AN INSANE AMOUNT OF ARMOR & HP, THEN, WE’LL TALK.

add insane health regen and u have a warrior with horrible cc lol

don’t call me Shirley.

Kaizer.7135:

Imagi.4561:

Kaizer.7135:

Imagi.4561:

Kaizer.7135:

I don’t know of any sane thief player that uses a utility spot for solely for rezzing allies and honestly, only a bad thief would. Because enemies know EXACTLY where you are since you’ll be rezzing.

lul

Shadow Refuge denies finishing moves, as long as the downed person doesn’t keep attacking through it. I use it for that purpose fairly often if I bring it along.

And people that are finishing should cancel the animation and lay down damage, thieves are squishy. You’d be dead before you can rez, unless the enemy player is just stupid.

Shadow Refuge is situational, like most support skills, but it’s phenomenal under the right circumstances.

Most utilities are situational lol

EDIT: Spelling

…And?

Sanduskel.1850:

don’t call me Shirley.

You have still to provide an explanation with evidence, so clearly you’re lying. You’re not an airplane company, surely you don’t think that you can get away with blatantly lying?

Zacchary.6183:

Mathias.9657:

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Give us an example.

Black Powder (Avoidance)
Dodge x3 (if you aren’t deep 15 in acro you are also doing it wrong won’t get them)(Avoidance)
Pain Instinctual Response (Avoidance)
Evade from S/P 3 (Avoidance)
Evade from S/D 3 (Avoidance)+ the boon it steals (mitigation depending on boon stolen)
Shortbow 3 (Avoidance)
Teleports from sword 2 and shadowstep which also happen to remove 1 and 3x condi respectively (OMG some mitigation!)
Lyssa runes (not class specific therefore null) with bask venom (CC not mitigation)
All bundles stolen give some form of mitigation – blind,reflect,fear,boons (the only mitigation from stealing is Eat Egg, Drink and Consume Plasma)

We are just missing a reliable form of stability. (besides dagger storm trololo)

Just to be clear, anything that causes you to take less damage would be considered mitigation which includes stuns. So to say or think thief has zero is ridiculous because we have a ton.

Clearly trolling, right? Maybe you should look up the definition of mitigation. I even explained at the end of my post to be clear of what it meant. I mean really, high school drop outs trying to correct me… rofl.

Mathias.9657:

Zacchary.6183:

Mathias.9657:

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Give us an example.

Black Powder (Avoidance)
Dodge x3 (if you aren’t deep 15 in acro you are also doing it wrong won’t get them)(Avoidance)
Pain Instinctual Response (Avoidance)
Evade from S/P 3 (Avoidance)
Evade from S/D 3 (Avoidance)+ the boon it steals (mitigation depending on boon stolen)
Shortbow 3 (Avoidance)
Teleports from sword 2 and shadowstep which also happen to remove 1 and 3x condi respectively (OMG some mitigation!)
Lyssa runes (not class specific therefore null) with bask venom (CC not mitigation)
All bundles stolen give some form of mitigation – blind,reflect,fear,boons (the only mitigation from stealing is Eat Egg, Drink and Consume Plasma)

We are just missing a reliable form of stability. (besides dagger storm trololo)

Just to be clear, anything that causes you to take less damage would be considered mitigation which includes stuns. So to say or think thief has zero is ridiculous because we have a ton.

Clearly trolling, right? Maybe you should look up the definition of mitigation. I even explained at the end of my post to be clear of what it meant. I mean really, high school drop outs trying to correct me… rofl.

Mitigate:1 : to cause to become less harsh or : mollify <aggressiveness may be mitigated or … channeled — Ashley Montagu> 2 a : to make less severe or painful

Avoidance: an act or practice of avoiding or withdrawing from something

(Since it defined it with itself)
Avoid: to keep away from : shun <have been avoiding me> b : to prevent the occurrence or effectiveness of <avoid further delays> c : to refrain from <avoid overeating> 4 archaic : to depart or withdraw from

Wow. The thief’s skill set almost exactly fits the definition of avoidance/to avoid while protection fits the definition of mitigation. Imagine that.

Mathias.9657:

Zacchary.6183:

Mathias.9657:

Black Teagan.9215:

Sanduskel.1850:

Zacchary.6183:

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

Thieves are squishy and have zero mitigation. Stealth does not make them invulnerable or immortal because they still take damage in stealth. If they didn’t have stealth, the class wouldn’t be able to survive and the profession would be completely useless.

If you think thieves have zero mitigation then you are doing something wrong.

Give us an example.

Black Powder (Avoidance)
Dodge x3 (if you aren’t deep 15 in acro you are also doing it wrong won’t get them)(Avoidance)
Pain Instinctual Response (Avoidance)
Evade from S/P 3 (Avoidance)
Evade from S/D 3 (Avoidance)+ the boon it steals (mitigation depending on boon stolen)
Shortbow 3 (Avoidance)
Teleports from sword 2 and shadowstep which also happen to remove 1 and 3x condi respectively (OMG some mitigation!)
Lyssa runes (not class specific therefore null) with bask venom (CC not mitigation)
All bundles stolen give some form of mitigation – blind,reflect,fear,boons (the only mitigation from stealing is Eat Egg, Drink and Consume Plasma)

We are just missing a reliable form of stability. (besides dagger storm trololo)

Just to be clear, anything that causes you to take less damage would be considered mitigation which includes stuns. So to say or think thief has zero is ridiculous because we have a ton.

Clearly trolling, right? Maybe you should look up the definition of mitigation. I even explained at the end of my post to be clear of what it meant. I mean really, high school drop outs trying to correct me… rofl.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mitigation?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic

EDIT: To explain the term “damage mitigation”, regardless of the boons or skills you are equipped with you still take the hit but it isn’t as bad as if you were getting hit without the boons and skills.