Guild Wars 2

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

GodOfWar.3624:

ITT: People who let thieves backstab them with no stun breaks QQ’ing in the thread.

ITT: People making comments without reading.

Backstab is fine. This is about auto attack.

This is about MELEE auto attack. That you can walk out of or counterpressure since the thief can’t do anything defensive while auto attacking. I still have zero problems on thief even on Mesmer. Because I know how to prevent myself from being hit by MELEE auto attack. That you can walk out of. Or counterpressure against.

With all the passives and AoEs in this game (btw that thief has minimal access to), a MELEE auto attack buff should be the last of your complaints. Sorry but if you’re letting someone dagger you in the face, you deserve big damage. Bigger than vs an AoE or passive attack. Passive like 10k ranger pet attacks.

No ranger pet hits passively for 10k damage. A remorseless tiger on a stupidly squishy target with double signet buff might get that high on an F2 active pounce, if the ranger dumps all cooldowns in a one trick pony spec into one shamefully obvious attack that you can literally walk away from because of pet AI problems.

You cannot “walk” away from a thief. Since when are thieves rooted during melee autoattack like certain other leather-wearing professions and their pets? They are completely free to pursue you with more mobility than any other profession in the game. The only counter to a thief is pressure, and a good thief will handle the pressure by spending initiative. Pre-patch a thief with a weak auto and no initiative was no longer a serious threat. Post-patch a pressured thief is far more adept at killing you.

Lol your other comment on smokescale. Like thief AA damage is instant? It takes like 3 seconds to complete a chain. That damage will STILL be less than a focused passive smokescale AND slower AND is MELEE AND requires my toon and not my pet to do something.

You CAN walk away from autoattacks. If a thief uses an ability to catch up to you, that’s initiative spent that could have been used defensively and is NOT autoattacks and is aside the issue. Saying you can’t walk away from thief autoattacks is like saying you can’t walk away from warrior autoattacks.

And your last point, so just because a thief is pressured he shouldn’t be able to do damage without wasting defensive options like initiative? This is not sustainable. We don’t get initiative back on swap, and don’t even go there with Quick Pockets. We can’t just swap weapons and spam cooldowns like other classes. We don’t have passive AoEs that do damage while we go do something else, we don’t have good reliable invulns, we don’t have offensive cooldowns to swap to and spam. All we have is an autoattacks buff to keep up with everyone else, but I guess that’s too much to ask for.

Post patch thief is only more adept at killing you if you’re afk or bad enough to sit in melee autoattacks. Sorry not sorry we do more than 1k crits in PvP now.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Lol your other comment on smokescale. Like thief AA damage is instant? It takes like 3 seconds to complete a chain. That damage will STILL be less than a focused passive smokescale AND slower AND is MELEE AND requires my toon and not my pet to do something.

You CAN walk away from autoattacks. If a thief uses an ability to catch up to you, that’s initiative spent that could have been used defensively and is NOT autoattacks and is aside the issue. Saying you can’t walk away from thief autoattacks is like saying you can’t walk away from warrior autoattacks.

And your last point, so just because a thief is pressured he shouldn’t be able to do damage without wasting defensive options like initiative? This is not sustainable. We don’t get initiative back on swap, and don’t even go there with Quick Pockets. We can’t just swap weapons and spam cooldowns like other classes. We don’t have passive AoEs that do damage while we go do something else, we don’t have good reliable invulns, we don’t have offensive cooldowns to swap to and spam. All we have is an autoattacks buff to keep up with everyone else, but I guess that’s too much to ask for.

Post patch thief is only more adept at killing you if you’re afk or bad enough to sit in melee autoattacks. Sorry not sorry we do more than 1k crits in PvP now.

I don’t get the point you’re trying to make about my smokescale comment having anything to do with thief autoattack.

You cannot walk away from warrior autoattack. You cannot walk away from any melee attack that allows the attacker to continue moving during the animation, because they can simply keep walking toward you while you walk away.

Do you even play this game?

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Lol your other comment on smokescale. Like thief AA damage is instant? It takes like 3 seconds to complete a chain. That damage will STILL be less than a focused passive smokescale AND slower AND is MELEE AND requires my toon and not my pet to do something.

You CAN walk away from autoattacks. If a thief uses an ability to catch up to you, that’s initiative spent that could have been used defensively and is NOT autoattacks and is aside the issue. Saying you can’t walk away from thief autoattacks is like saying you can’t walk away from warrior autoattacks.

And your last point, so just because a thief is pressured he shouldn’t be able to do damage without wasting defensive options like initiative? This is not sustainable. We don’t get initiative back on swap, and don’t even go there with Quick Pockets. We can’t just swap weapons and spam cooldowns like other classes. We don’t have passive AoEs that do damage while we go do something else, we don’t have good reliable invulns, we don’t have offensive cooldowns to swap to and spam. All we have is an autoattacks buff to keep up with everyone else, but I guess that’s too much to ask for.

Post patch thief is only more adept at killing you if you’re afk or bad enough to sit in melee autoattacks. Sorry not sorry we do more than 1k crits in PvP now.

I don’t get the point you’re trying to make about my smokescale comment having anything to do with thief autoattack.

You cannot walk away from warrior autoattack. You cannot walk away from any melee attack that allows the attacker to continue moving during the animation, because they can simply keep walking toward you while you walk away.

Do you even play this game?

If you don’t know how to avoid melee auto attack, then I’m not equipped to deal with that. Kiting from melee in this game is as easy as moving a step to the left and then keep going. Thieves don’t have super speed and limited quickness.

Tldr this whole thread L2P.

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Lol your other comment on smokescale. Like thief AA damage is instant? It takes like 3 seconds to complete a chain. That damage will STILL be less than a focused passive smokescale AND slower AND is MELEE AND requires my toon and not my pet to do something.

You CAN walk away from autoattacks. If a thief uses an ability to catch up to you, that’s initiative spent that could have been used defensively and is NOT autoattacks and is aside the issue. Saying you can’t walk away from thief autoattacks is like saying you can’t walk away from warrior autoattacks.

And your last point, so just because a thief is pressured he shouldn’t be able to do damage without wasting defensive options like initiative? This is not sustainable. We don’t get initiative back on swap, and don’t even go there with Quick Pockets. We can’t just swap weapons and spam cooldowns like other classes. We don’t have passive AoEs that do damage while we go do something else, we don’t have good reliable invulns, we don’t have offensive cooldowns to swap to and spam. All we have is an autoattacks buff to keep up with everyone else, but I guess that’s too much to ask for.

Post patch thief is only more adept at killing you if you’re afk or bad enough to sit in melee autoattacks. Sorry not sorry we do more than 1k crits in PvP now.

I don’t get the point you’re trying to make about my smokescale comment having anything to do with thief autoattack.

You cannot walk away from warrior autoattack. You cannot walk away from any melee attack that allows the attacker to continue moving during the animation, because they can simply keep walking toward you while you walk away.

Do you even play this game?

smokescale only has had a bug fix to assault where it dealt more damage and assault was change from f2 to passive… Just finish rereading patchnotes on it. So did anet make it kittens for smokescale as ninja nerf? Also the AA has only really gone up by 1k, so y the hate? Even if u revert it, AA would only need 1 more hit to get u done to where it is now…

BeepBoopBop.5403:

If you don’t know how to avoid melee auto attack, then I’m not equipped to deal with that. Kiting from melee in this game is as easy as moving a step to the left and then keep going. Thieves don’t have super speed and limited quickness.

Tldr this whole thread L2P.

Forward run speed is higher than strafing speed. Quickness doesn’t even affect run speed. Thief gets super speed (equivalent) from Hidden Thief while stealthed (formerly an effect from Acrobatics, was changed in patch).

Have you misplaced the W key on your keyboard?

Orion.3812:

In PvP/WvW, thieves need less evade/block/mobility and more soft sustain outside of stealth (condi removal, healing). Coincidentally, thieves already received these exact buffs along with even more evades when they got Daredevil (heal on evade, condi removal on evade, +1 evade).

Please, God, no. Thieves are designed as an active defense class and should always be that way. Evade/Block/Mobility already take care of condi removal and healing by preventing you from needing them in the first place.

Thief just doesn’t have a sustain problem unless you’re trying to play your character like it’s another profession.

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

If you don’t know how to avoid melee auto attack, then I’m not equipped to deal with that. Kiting from melee in this game is as easy as moving a step to the left and then keep going. Thieves don’t have super speed and limited quickness.

Tldr this whole thread L2P.

Forward run speed is higher than strafing speed. Quickness doesn’t even affect run speed. Thief gets super speed (equivalent) from Hidden Thief while stealthed (formerly an effect from Acrobatics, was changed in patch).

Have you misplaced the W key on your keyboard?

Lol.

Hardly any thieves run SA. Unless you have QQ about SA too, if so, lol.

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

And finally. L2FP.

A ranger who complains about AA of a thief – really makes sense as rangers absolutely have no weapons like a LB or ever evading GS and S/D to evade auto attacks.

Jana.6831:

A ranger who complains about AA of a thief – really makes sense as rangers absolutely have no weapons like a LB or ever evading GS and S/D to evade auto attacks.

+1

@OP, shouldn’t you be complaining to the necro forum considering they have an AA that is equal to, if not higher, than thief AA?

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

If I’m condescending its because of things you’ve said lol. I started out pretty serious about my defense of the AA buff, but after some of your statements like about how you can’t kittening kite from melee AA, I have dismissed you as another baddie QQing. Like everyone else here should.

If we moved the damage to anywhere else, sword AA raw damage increase, larc strike, backstab, odds are you’d still be whining. That’s because thief hard counters bads. Stop being bad.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

If I’m condescending its because of things you’ve said lol. I started out pretty serious about my defense of the AA buff, but after some of your statements like about how you can’t kittening kite from melee AA, I have dismissed you as another baddie QQing. Like everyone else here should.

If we moved the damage to anywhere else, sword AA raw damage increase, larc strike, backstab, odds are you’d still be whining. That’s because thief hard counters bads. Stop being bad.

You can burn cooldowns to open the gap. You cannot just “walk away”. I shouldn’t have to explain to you the difference if you are such a good player.

could someone died to zerker thief? really?
That kind of unskilled players could killed by random mobs on wvw field lol

zerker thieves has 11k HP so any damage could kill it.
Its the same as thief and thats why i’m not running zerker thief in wvw.
when after marauder came out for pve stats, almost everyone has 17k hp
and even 10k spike damage is just not enough to kill someone before they react.
if you couldn’t react in 0.5 second or less you shouldn’t run pvp or wvw.
or you should pay more attention cuz you go there for intend to fight with others.

or you could came for 1 tier wvw server so you could see lots of other classes
because thieves are not much of a uses in many versus many

Okay cool toxicity guys but back to what i was trying to ask OP, why does a 2 sec AA chain that now does 4-5K overall(pvp) need to be reverted back down to 3-4k(pvp) overall? if we revert the change it would take me 2.5-3 secs instead 2 secs to deal the same damage. so one full AA chain + double strike.

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Okay cool toxicity guys but back to what i was trying to ask OP, why does a 2 sec AA chain that now does 4-5K overall(pvp) need to be reverted back down to 3-4k(pvp) overall? if we revert the change it would take me 2.5-3 secs instead 2 secs to deal the same damage. so one full AA chain + double strike.

Because 0.5 seconds is easily the difference between life and death in GW2.

Aidal.4901:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Aidal.4901:

…Also any 2v1 scenario is going to be death if it’s against half skilled thieves.

It wasn’t before.

My initial spike of damage is unchanged, and I’m moderate at best.

Light armor: 11-14k opener.
Medium armor: 11-13k opener.
Heavy armor: 10-11k opener.

If two thieves are attacking in rough tandem and applying pressure as they should, only necro/warrior would survive the initial burst. I dunno what thieves you were fighting against, but if they got greedy to stick around to be counter burst they probably weren’t very good.

actually most case of skilled player scenario is

‘saw a thief from far’
dazed ‘oh i got stealed’
dodge
counter burst combo

or

’I’m a DH’
stand on the trap
stomp on the dead thief

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

Stop QQing and go back to ur ez mode ranger forum that require no skills to play.

If u actually think thief is op, go and roll thief and see how bad u are going to get rekt

and u will never say thief is op again.

Not so sure about this. A friend of mine just started thief (mains ranger – ~30K AP – he’s been around for a bit) and he seems to like it.. which is really weird as he’s the typical ranger = immobile, slow and a bit kitten y.

ETA: And before someone complains: I started as a ranger main as well and also have been “the typical” ranger back then, cause why should I dodge, right?

MidoriMarch.8067:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

Stop QQing and go back to ur ez mode ranger forum that require no skills to play.

If u actually think thief is op, go and roll thief and see how bad u are going to get rekt

and u will never say thief is op again.

I have a thief. I have to warm up a bit before I can stay alive, but even pre-buff could kill just about anyone without much effort after shaking the rust off. I once moved my ascended gear over to my thief and spent a day ganking people in WvW. It was fun for a while, and then it just got kinda boring because with ascended + food buff, nobody could counter except other thieves that got lucky. The tankier the enemy, the harder it is to win but not impossible if you have the patience. Thief scales differently in sPvP, but it’s still very powerful there except against bunkers which were too prevalent because they countered everything.

I’ve played both power and condi builds of every class, and play 3-4 characters on a daily basis. I am not just a ranger. I understand a bigger picture than the view from behind a longbow.

I am also not the only one in this thread, nor the forums as a whole, who recognizes the problem with buffing thief personal damage instead of providing them the group utility that they need to have instead. See this other thread.

Orion.3812:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

Stop QQing and go back to ur ez mode ranger forum that require no skills to play.

If u actually think thief is op, go and roll thief and see how bad u are going to get rekt

and u will never say thief is op again.

I have a thief. I have to warm up a bit before I can stay alive, but even pre-buff could kill just about anyone without much effort after shaking the rust off. I once moved my ascended gear over to my thief and spent a day ganking people in WvW. It was fun for a while, and then it just got kinda boring because with ascended + food buff, nobody could counter except other thieves that got lucky. The tankier the enemy, the harder it is to win but not impossible if you have the patience. Thief scales differently in sPvP, but it’s still very powerful there except against bunkers which were too prevalent because they countered everything.

I’ve played both power and condi builds of every class, and play 3-4 characters on a daily basis. I am not just a ranger. I understand a bigger picture than the view from behind a longbow.

I am also not the only one in this thread, nor the forums as a whole, who recognizes the problem with buffing thief personal damage instead of providing them the group utility that they need to have instead. See this other thread.

I don’t believe you., otherwise you shouldn’t have problems to kill a thief on any other class.
And just for the record: I don’t want group utility – I don’t want to be pressed into the trinity, all this “support” nonsense annoys me. But yes, most of us acknowledge that buffing thief’s melee AA only helps that much – mostly because it’s pretty impossible to kill good players with AA.

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

If I’m condescending its because of things you’ve said lol. I started out pretty serious about my defense of the AA buff, but after some of your statements like about how you can’t kittening kite from melee AA, I have dismissed you as another baddie QQing. Like everyone else here should.

If we moved the damage to anywhere else, sword AA raw damage increase, larc strike, backstab, odds are you’d still be whining. That’s because thief hard counters bads. Stop being bad.

You can burn cooldowns to open the gap. You cannot just “walk away”. I shouldn’t have to explain to you the difference if you are such a good player.

I have explained plenty my defense of buffs. You have said nothing but " wahhh I sat in melee autos and died teef OP!"

You can walk away. Unless the thief has godmode reflexes and best internet, you can always position yourself to make him miss autoattacks. Out of melee range. Or you can counterpressure because a thief is half dead after smokescale and bristleback bursts and BECAUSE WE CANT DODGE OR DEFEND OURSELVES DURING AA.

Just admit that your panties are rustled that thieves aren’t free kills anymore rofl. Must hurt to have to use your brain huh? Oh well back to your braindead profession of “build tanky no prob pet hits harder than teef!”

BeepBoopBop.5403:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

If I’m condescending its because of things you’ve said lol. I started out pretty serious about my defense of the AA buff, but after some of your statements like about how you can’t kittening kite from melee AA, I have dismissed you as another baddie QQing. Like everyone else here should.

If we moved the damage to anywhere else, sword AA raw damage increase, larc strike, backstab, odds are you’d still be whining. That’s because thief hard counters bads. Stop being bad.

You can burn cooldowns to open the gap. You cannot just “walk away”. I shouldn’t have to explain to you the difference if you are such a good player.

I have explained plenty my defense of buffs. You have said nothing but " wahhh I sat in melee autos and died teef OP!"

You can walk away. Unless the thief has godmode reflexes and best internet, you can always position yourself to make him miss autoattacks. Out of melee range. Or you can counterpressure because a thief is half dead after smokescale and bristleback bursts and BECAUSE WE CANT DODGE OR DEFEND OURSELVES DURING AA.

Just admit that your panties are rustled that thieves aren’t free kills anymore rofl. Must hurt to have to use your brain huh? Oh well back to your braindead profession of “build tanky no prob pet hits harder than teef!”

Two edits followed by a double post quote? You should maybe relax before all that angst gives you a heart attack.

Jana.6831:

I don’t believe you.

Would you believe me if it was convenient for your side of the argument?

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Orion.3812:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

I’m well aware forward speed is faster. Turn with your mouse. Stop clicking your skills like you probably do too.

I do “click” skills, but only when I’m taking a dump and winning PvP via remote control with my phone’s touch screen. Get on my level, you condescending twit.

If I’m condescending its because of things you’ve said lol. I started out pretty serious about my defense of the AA buff, but after some of your statements like about how you can’t kittening kite from melee AA, I have dismissed you as another baddie QQing. Like everyone else here should.

If we moved the damage to anywhere else, sword AA raw damage increase, larc strike, backstab, odds are you’d still be whining. That’s because thief hard counters bads. Stop being bad.

You can burn cooldowns to open the gap. You cannot just “walk away”. I shouldn’t have to explain to you the difference if you are such a good player.

I have explained plenty my defense of buffs. You have said nothing but " wahhh I sat in melee autos and died teef OP!"

You can walk away. Unless the thief has godmode reflexes and best internet, you can always position yourself to make him miss autoattacks. Out of melee range. Or you can counterpressure because a thief is half dead after smokescale and bristleback bursts and BECAUSE WE CANT DODGE OR DEFEND OURSELVES DURING AA.

Just admit that your panties are rustled that thieves aren’t free kills anymore rofl. Must hurt to have to use your brain huh? Oh well back to your braindead profession of “build tanky no prob pet hits harder than teef!”

Two edits followed by a double post quote? You should maybe relax before all that angst gives you a heart attack.

I’m on mobile and missing buttons sometimes lol. And while I’m here, L2P.

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

I don’t believe you.

Would you believe me if it was convenient for your side of the argument?

Being a “dynomite” thief who sits on the toilet while playing pvp and dying to autoattack sounds like a good story. But none of it is believeable.
So my point is: you’re making all of this up – how have I taken any side of an argument?

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

I don’t believe you.

Would you believe me if it was convenient for your side of the argument?

Being a “dynomite” thief who sits on the toilet while playing pvp and dying to autoattack sounds like a good story. But none of it is believeable.
So my point is: you’re making all of this up – how have I taken any side of an argument?

Oh, you took that part seriously. Awkward.

I like to think I’m a pretty good thief with a mouse and keyboard in front of me, though. I was not joking about playing all classes, just about playing on the toilet. Best anyone can do with an Android soft keyboard is chat and jump due to technical limitations.

My point is: Thief is still one of the weakest classes out there, so if you’re dying to AA you’re doing things wrong.

ETA: I said it half a year ago – the longer the brainless meta would stay around the more people get used to it and think this is how the game is supposed to be. So, people might be surprised that thief has gone from a lootbag to a lootbag with legs.
I killed a mesmer today with 3 hits (one while he was stealthed apparently, just got a lootbag and didn’t see a body) – seems as if their passives got nerfed a bit but he didn’t notice yet.
So yes, if you ask me: the game is still out of control balance wise but thief is the least of your problems.

Jana.6831:

My point is: Thief is still one of the weakest classes out there, so if you’re dying to AA you’re doing things wrong.

ETA: I said it half a year ago – the longer the brainless meta would stay around the more people get used to it and think this is how the game is supposed to be. So, people might be surprised that thief has gone from a lootbag to a lootbag with legs.
I killed a mesmer today with 3 hits (one while he was stealthed apparently, just got a lootbag and didn’t see a body) – seems as if their passives got nerfed a bit but he didn’t notice yet.
So yes, if you ask me: the game is still out of control balance wise but thief is the least of your problems.

This isn’t a “QQ I died” thread. This is a thread from the perspective of both the thief and the thiefed. It’s about more than AA. I would encourage you to go back and read my original post. The AA buff trivializes initiative management, which is what defines the thief profession. The AA buff trivializes thieves.

Are you running Panic Strike? Just keep flailing your auto-attack around where you saw that Mesmer stealth. Congrats, you just won the fight!

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

My point is: Thief is still one of the weakest classes out there, so if you’re dying to AA you’re doing things wrong.

ETA: I said it half a year ago – the longer the brainless meta would stay around the more people get used to it and think this is how the game is supposed to be. So, people might be surprised that thief has gone from a lootbag to a lootbag with legs.
I killed a mesmer today with 3 hits (one while he was stealthed apparently, just got a lootbag and didn’t see a body) – seems as if their passives got nerfed a bit but he didn’t notice yet.
So yes, if you ask me: the game is still out of control balance wise but thief is the least of your problems.

This isn’t a “QQ I died” thread. This is a thread from the perspective of both the thief and the thiefed. It’s about more than AA. I would encourage you to go back and read my original post. The AA buff trivializes initiative management, which is what defines the thief profession. The AA buff trivializes thieves.

Are you running Panic Strike? Just keep flailing your auto-attack around where you saw that Mesmer stealth. Congrats, you just won the fight!

CS, SA, T with CiS instead of SRej, D/D – I’m the weakest thief possible.
All I read was complaining and no knowledge of the class/the game.
Mesmer sees thief first: thief dead. Pre patch: Thief sees mesmer fist: Thief dead, post patch: Thief sees mesmer first: Mesmer dead.
All classes have got utility to prevent being locked and bursted down (which a mesmer can do better btw).
So sorry, my point still stands: You have no point.
If you want to have one then you should look at the state of the game as a whole – It’s burst all around and has been since June. The Bunker Meta was kind of a lie and just possible with certain classes and their passives.

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

My point is: Thief is still one of the weakest classes out there, so if you’re dying to AA you’re doing things wrong.

ETA: I said it half a year ago – the longer the brainless meta would stay around the more people get used to it and think this is how the game is supposed to be. So, people might be surprised that thief has gone from a lootbag to a lootbag with legs.
I killed a mesmer today with 3 hits (one while he was stealthed apparently, just got a lootbag and didn’t see a body) – seems as if their passives got nerfed a bit but he didn’t notice yet.
So yes, if you ask me: the game is still out of control balance wise but thief is the least of your problems.

This isn’t a “QQ I died” thread. This is a thread from the perspective of both the thief and the thiefed. It’s about more than AA. I would encourage you to go back and read my original post. The AA buff trivializes initiative management, which is what defines the thief profession. The AA buff trivializes thieves.

Are you running Panic Strike? Just keep flailing your auto-attack around where you saw that Mesmer stealth. Congrats, you just won the fight!

CS, SA, T with CiS instead of SRej, D/D – I’m the weakest thief possible.
All I read was complaining and no knowledge of the class/the game.
Mesmer sees thief first: thief dead. Pre patch: Thief sees mesmer fist: Thief dead, post patch: Thief sees mesmer first: Mesmer dead.
All classes have got utility to prevent being locked and bursted down (which a mesmer can do better btw).
So sorry, my point still stands: You have no point.
If you want to have one then you should look at the state of the game as a whole – It’s burst all around and has been since June. The Bunker Meta was kind of a lie and just possible with certain classes and their passives.

Surely you cannot be arguing that the AA buff is justified when you just stated that the entire problem with the game is that damage is too high?

Orion.3812:

Surely you cannot be arguing that the AA buff is justified when you just stated that the entire problem with the game is that damage is too high?

Did I ever say it was justified? No – just that it shouldn’t be a problem to you as every class hits out equal if not bigger damage.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I’m running 3750 armor and 21k health, mussels gnashblade for the 10% damage reduction and several sources of Protection and now instead of being able to beat thieves 1v1 and at least escape 2v1, I am down within seconds. It is exactly as described above; Basi, Steal, BS, AA a couple of times.

Utterly absurd damage increase.

They didn’t get a damage increase. The excessive aftercast and slow auto attack speed got speed up. Anets self described concept for thief is , “They dictate the speed of an encounter…” Either keep your hotkeys firmly under finger, or lose. If you think its unfair on you, try playing a thief vs another thief that is attacking from stealth. If you can’t break stun in under 0.5 of a second, you’re a gonner. Anet stated the goal was to increase their sustain.As stated above players remind us that they used to be able to make a thief back off with a couple of hits..that is what sustain is, thieve’s no longer have 1-2 punch and then back off and rinse repeat. they start and finish their burst now in a single movement.

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Surely you cannot be arguing that the AA buff is justified when you just stated that the entire problem with the game is that damage is too high?

Did I ever say it was justified? No – just that it shouldn’t be a problem to you as every class hits out equal if not bigger damage.

If you are not here to address the idea under discussion, then why are you here? Either agree with my point that buffing AA was a bad move or disagree with it and provide supporting arguments, but kindly take your personal offense toward my interest in a fairly balanced game elsewhere.

It’s a waste of everyone’s time to read the L2P drivel that this thread has turned into, and if we as players ever hope for Anet Developers to take our discussions in the forums seriously then the toxicity has to stop and intelligent study and well-articulated opinion must become the norm.

Orion.3812:

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Okay cool toxicity guys but back to what i was trying to ask OP, why does a 2 sec AA chain that now does 4-5K overall(pvp) need to be reverted back down to 3-4k(pvp) overall? if we revert the change it would take me 2.5-3 secs instead 2 secs to deal the same damage. so one full AA chain + double strike.

Because 0.5 seconds is easily the difference between life and death in GW2.

True but still the buff was needed for pve, in pvp the aftercast buff was needed and the removal of the bunker amulets, which brought thief back, but with the AA buff it also made thief able to keep a little more pressure after using initiative. Also there multiple class counters to thief atm that are also meta like scrapper and bruiser druid, thief vs rev is usually even, only real advantage we have when it comes to meta is we can still easily +1 and we can take care of the necros condi bombing the other classes with burst. Was the AA damage increase necessary, no (only the after cast and precast was imho) did the buff hurt pvp play no in my opinion since it still didn’t drastically change are hard counter fights. Like I said we still lose to druids, and scrappers when comes to 1v1. Also when it comes to wvw i can’t honestly take it seriously due to what ganking is as a thief and all the passive buffs you can get to increase your dps. also name all the classes that get hard counter because of this buff and changes the out come of a 1v1? Reapers where thief bait, chrono is thief bait with bunk gone, tempest are pointless 1v1 still’s, berserker well it’s berserker so yeah… they hit hard i guess and hurt with gun flame…, herald’s are even fights depending on the build they run, dh’s still a hard counter, scrapers still a tough fight/counter, druid tough fight/counter, and other thieves well who can get there burst and stun’s in first.
So by my count you have about 3 even fights 3 counters and 3 ganks.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I’m running 3750 armor and 21k health, mussels gnashblade for the 10% damage reduction and several sources of Protection and now instead of being able to beat thieves 1v1 and at least escape 2v1, I am down within seconds. It is exactly as described above; Basi, Steal, BS, AA a couple of times.

Utterly absurd damage increase.

They didn’t get a damage increase. The excessive aftercast and slow auto attack speed got speed up. Anets self described concept for thief is , “They dictate the speed of an encounter…” Either keep your hotkeys firmly under finger, or lose. If you think its unfair on you, try playing a thief vs another thief that is attacking from stealth. If you can’t break stun in under 0.5 of a second, you’re a gonner. Anet stated the goal was to increase their sustain.As stated above players remind us that they used to be able to make a thief back off with a couple of hits..that is what sustain is, thieve’s no longer have 1-2 punch and then back off and rinse repeat. they start and finish their burst now in a single movement.

I think most of your ideas here are pointed in the right direction, but a correction must be made:

Thieves received a damage buff. Staff and dagger attacks deal more damage and dagger timing is slightly faster. Sword timing is much faster. The net change for all melee weapons is an increase in damage per second, regardless of whether or not there was an increase for the weapon in damage per hit.

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

True but still the buff was needed for pve

A buff was needed for PvE. Is increasing AA damage the only viable option for improving thief status in PvE? No.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I’m running 3750 armor and 21k health, mussels gnashblade for the 10% damage reduction and several sources of Protection and now instead of being able to beat thieves 1v1 and at least escape 2v1, I am down within seconds. It is exactly as described above; Basi, Steal, BS, AA a couple of times.

Utterly absurd damage increase.

They didn’t get a damage increase. The excessive aftercast and slow auto attack speed got speed up. Anets self described concept for thief is , “They dictate the speed of an encounter…” Either keep your hotkeys firmly under finger, or lose. If you think its unfair on you, try playing a thief vs another thief that is attacking from stealth. If you can’t break stun in under 0.5 of a second, you’re a gonner. Anet stated the goal was to increase their sustain.As stated above players remind us that they used to be able to make a thief back off with a couple of hits..that is what sustain is, thieve’s no longer have 1-2 punch and then back off and rinse repeat. they start and finish their burst now in a single movement.

To be fair about the stun part, it’s all about what build and class your running, if your a glass ele yeah sure but other classes have stun breaks and there own stuns to counter most initial burst, and with your initial burst with AA most people counter pressure and stun you and apply they’re own form of burst making the thief to use they’re own stun breaker such as shadowstep. taking away the pressure the thief was applying. Also do u play LB glass ranger???

Nizio Nightblade.8109
You overestimate the “passives flying around in wvw”.
Something in anets metrics is wrong that’s why the overall damage in wvw is a lot higher than in pvp, but otherwise it’s mostly more or less the same.

Orion.3812:

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

True but still the buff was needed for pve

A buff was needed for PvE. Is increasing AA damage the only viable option for improving thief status in PvE? No.

yes actually what thief was lacking was sustain dps for raids, once initiative was gone you became a liability to the group and reduce the overall dps.

Jana.6831:

Nizio Nightblade.8109
You overestimate the “passives flying around in wvw”.
Something in anets metrics is wrong that’s why the overall damage in wvw is a lot higher than in pvp, but otherwise it’s mostly more or less the same.

food buffs and sharpening stones and w/e power stacks make wvw more loopsided and easier for a thief to gank then any other class because now they’re backstab hits for 8-10k with bask venom and they’re criting for a full AA chain at 6-7k. with a 2k steal with applied poison. I can understand the complaining when it comes to wvw about gank thiefs but wvw really is mess up when it comes to balance as a whole.

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Orion.3812:

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

True but still the buff was needed for pve

A buff was needed for PvE. Is increasing AA damage the only viable option for improving thief status in PvE? No.

yes actually what thief was lacking was sustain dps for raids, once initiative was gone you became a liability to the group and reduce the overall dps.

I want to challenge this. I want to say that thief damage was fine and better than all others save fire staff ele, and that thief simply did not provide group damage buffs that other classes bring. However, making the direct comparison would require a source for damage numbers. The problem is that accurate DPS checks in a timely manner require the use of software unsupported by the game’s TOS and admission of its use in the forums would likely not be a good idea.

So how do we get this info without said software? How do we test the actual 2+ minute sustained DPS of every profession in a raid situation to compare them, in the current live version of the game? Or should we pester Anet until they actually implement a damage meter?

Nizio Nightblade.8109:

Jana.6831:

Nizio Nightblade.8109
You overestimate the “passives flying around in wvw”.
Something in anets metrics is wrong that’s why the overall damage in wvw is a lot higher than in pvp, but otherwise it’s mostly more or less the same.

food buffs and sharpening stones and w/e power stacks make wvw more loopsided and easier for a thief to gank then any other class because now they’re backstab hits for 8-10k with bask venom and they’re criting for a full AA chain at 6-7k. with a 2k steal with applied poison. I can understand the complaining when it comes to wvw about gank thiefs but wvw really is mess up when it comes to balance as a whole.

Even if you don’t have all of that your damage is higher than in pvp.

ETA: And everybody runs around with food – it’s suicide if you don’t – so it’s not just thieves ganking around.

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Surely you cannot be arguing that the AA buff is justified when you just stated that the entire problem with the game is that damage is too high?

Did I ever say it was justified? No – just that it shouldn’t be a problem to you as every class hits out equal if not bigger damage.

If you are not here to address the idea under discussion, then why are you here? Either agree with my point that buffing AA was a bad move or disagree with it and provide supporting arguments, but kindly take your personal offense toward my interest in a fairly balanced game elsewhere.

It’s a waste of everyone’s time to read the L2P drivel that this thread has turned into, and if we as players ever hope for Anet Developers to take our discussions in the forums seriously then the toxicity has to stop and intelligent study and well-articulated opinion must become the norm.

Anet doesn’t read thief forums.

I wonder if you were calling for “intelligent study and well articulated opinion” when all the thief mains were all but forced to shelve their class until this patch.

Orion.3812:

Jana.6831:

Orion.3812:

Surely you cannot be arguing that the AA buff is justified when you just stated that the entire problem with the game is that damage is too high?

Did I ever say it was justified? No – just that it shouldn’t be a problem to you as every class hits out equal if not bigger damage.

If you are not here to address the idea under discussion, then why are you here? Either agree with my point that buffing AA was a bad move or disagree with it and provide supporting arguments, but kindly take your personal offense toward my interest in a fairly balanced game elsewhere.

It’s a waste of everyone’s time to read the L2P drivel that this thread has turned into, and if we as players ever hope for Anet Developers to take our discussions in the forums seriously then the toxicity has to stop and intelligent study and well-articulated opinion must become the norm.

I could go to every other class’ forums and create a thread just like you did.
I’m telling you that your complains are unjustified.
thief has been left out of the powercreep in june and is now “on par” damage wise with the other powercrept classes – how can that be unfair?
Do I like the powercreep – no, I don’t – but I don’t see why thief should remain a free lootbag while every other class does more damage.

Btw I missed whether OP already justified why thief should be free lootbag?

fumcheg.1936:

Btw I missed whether OP already justified why thief should be free lootbag?

I’m not going to justify something that I am not trying to argue for. Thief viability can be improved in all game types through means other than unnecessary damage buffs.

Thief was not a free loot bag pre-patch. Thief was fine and the power creep of other professions’ survivability rather than thief’s inability was and still is the real problem.

This may be the funniest thread I’ve seen in a while. The thief nerf threads are back, guys, just like we knew it would happen because some autoattacks got buffed lol.

Seriously, theres not a problem with a thief having some sustained damage to use when they’re out of initiative. Again, there are higher AA’s on other classes, go complain on their forums.